If there’s one thing every good, American pony car needs, it’s a good, American V8 engine to fit under the bonnet – preferably two or three. The current, sixth-generation Chevrolet Camaro offers just that, in the form of both the naturally-aspirated 6.2-liter LT1 V8 in the SS model, and the supercharged 6.2-liter LT4 in the ZL1.
But choice is power, and General Motors has a perfectly good, punchy small V8 that could provide Chevrolet Camaro buyers with yet another option: the 5.3-liter EcoTec3 L83 engine. Should Chevrolet offer this more diminutive pushrod V8 in its iconic pony car, creating a model between the LT and the SS?
Such a move would give the Chevrolet Camaro something the Ford Mustang doesn’t offer – an entry-level V8 performance model – while bringing it in-line with one of the more successful players in the segment: the Dodge Challenger. Fiat Chrysler’s two-door pony car offers the Challenger R/T, powered by a 5.7-liter Hemi V8, as the most affordable in a range of naturally-aspirated and supercharged V8-powered models. Given the age of the current Dodge Challenger and its overlap with the four-door Charger (neither the Camaro nor the Mustang have sedan-style analogues to contend with), its ability to keep up with – even surpass – the Camaro in the showroom is nothing short of remarkable.
The Challenger’s entry-level 5.7-liter Hemi V8 may only constitute a portion of Dodge’s successful formula, but it’s a component nonetheless.
U.S. pony car sales are down nearly nine percent for the year through September, but that’s largely the fault of the Chevrolet Camaro, which has seen its sales decline by more than 25 percent over that period. The Ford Mustang has slid by less than one percent, and the Dodge Challenger has held steady, picking up a scant 37 unit sales from January through September, 2018.
Stay tuned for more of the latest Chevrolet Camaro news.
Sales Numbers - Mainstream Two-Door Sports Cars - Third Quarter 2018 - USA
| MODEL | Q3 18 / Q3 17 | Q3 18 | Q3 17 | YTD 18 / YTD 17 | YTD 18 | YTD 17 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| MUSTANG | +9.11% | 19,191 | 17,588 | -0.93% | 61,619 | 62,196 |
| CHALLENGER | -8.68% | 14,946 | 16,366 | +0.07% | 52,313 | 52,276 |
| CAMARO | -15.80% | 14,448 | 17,160 | -25.87% | 39,828 | 53,727 |
| TOTAL | -4.95% | 48,585 | 51,114 | -8.58% | 153,760 | 168,199 |
Comments
The age of the Challenger is irrelevant when it has a comparably massive cabin and a design that’s more true to the original. The Challenger has the advantage of real room and backseats that can be usable. It isn’t a glorified 2-seater like the Camaro. Don’t get me wrong, the Camaro is a good car. It’s had a lot of constant performance updates and new features, but it’s also grown smaller while the Challenger has remained usable and comfortable as a daily driver while it, too, has been adding both high-performance and affordable performance trim levels like the Scat Pack, 1320, Hellcat, Redeye, and Demon.
If anything, it shows that buyers are willing to sacrifice a bit of handling prowess to have a car that they can actually fit in. Nothing short of a full redesign focusing on increased visibility and cabin space is going to help the Camaro now.
To your point, I think where the Camaro now is fine. If they want to go after the R/T, I’d leave the 6.2 and just strip it out as cheap as possible.
As for the Challenger, I agree. The Camaro is a great sports car… but a lot of people don’t want/need a sports car. The Charger (and Challenger, to a slightly lesser extent) is for a guy that has a family and needs a rear seat & trunk, but wants to go fast. If I need a rear seat and a V8, my options are the Dodge twins, or a VERY expensive German.
I’d love GM to use the CTS platform and make a new Chevy SS, and maybe a coupe version too. It could replace the Impala and all would be well.
I’ve owned two Chargers and a Challenger. One of the Chargers was a Scat Pack. I actually work at a Chevy/CDJR dealership so I was considering a Camaro, Charger, or Challenger, but the latter two always win out from a usability point of view. If I was buying a second car, I’d be more inclined to go with a Camaro, but since this is my main vehicle I had to go with something that I could actually be comfortable in.
We traded in our 2012 Camaro 2SS for a 2014 SS Sedan so we could have our V8 power fun & sound + have 4 doors. Have 90K miles on the SS Sedan and plan on keeping it. We have owned 6 Camaros, 6 Mustangs and are on our 2nd Challenger.
“massive cabin and a design that’s more true to the original.”
Original Challengers had tiny little crappy cabins like all Ponycars had.
I said a DESIGN that’s more true to the original…
Chevy F’d up the redesign. Inside and out. I don’t think the 5.3 will help, what they should do is put a twin turbo V6 in it like the 400hp 3.0 from the CT6
if there was a way to give more than one thumbs down on a review. I’d still be clicking that thumbs down button.
“If there’s one thing every good, American pony car needs, it’s a good, American V8 engine to fit under the bonnet –”
If there is one good thing that crappy wanna be auto journalists need to do is stop pretending that they’re Jeremy Clarkson.
Its called a hood Nigel.
I can’t even be mad. That’s a solid burn.
At least I don’t call lb-ft “torques”.
So you’re gawddamn obtuse you can’t be bothered to see the word bonnet as synonymous with a hood? Frig, how the hell did you manage to even watch TopGear in the first place if you couldn’t get past the language barrier without making a big stink about it?
I’m not bothered by someone using it if its part of their native vernacular, but when someone watches 5 minutes of Top Gear and Wheeler Dealers and then all of sudden everything is all “blimey and door cards, and bonnets and boots and tea and consumption”……please.
Yes, I’ve been alluding to this for months. Get a massaged high output 5.3L V8 in it and use the non SS Camaro fascia.
I’d call it the 325 Sport. A lower cost true V8 muscle car.
They could call it the…..wait for it……Z28
That might not be a terrible idea actually. i mean, it worked from 98-02 so why not.
They’re trying to make Camaro one size fits all. Make a “sporty” small car under Camaro and an SS version of Impala with rear wheel drive. Offer manual 6 speed as an option.
A few years ago GM had a car running around the show circuit called the Code130R, it was to be an entry level 2 door sedan with RWD, a “fun” car. The program was cancelled and basically the new Camaro was made the “One car for all” instead. It has not worked, no matter how you “spin” it, -25% on the YTD is a terrible sales performance. The “Code” would have been an option for the sport compact/hot hatch crowd, where the Camaro, even in entry level 2.0T form, is not. Some complain that the Camaro is not functional enough? Another reason is…..it’s a Camaro. Many see the Camaro as their Dad’s car? The FR-S/Toyota 86/BRZ, GTI, WRX, etc…. are “their” cars. The “Code” would have been also. Code 130R = missed opportunity.
Why the hell are you haphazardly putting quotation marks around words?
Quotation marks are sometimes used to emphasize words or phrases.
Here it is sans quotes if it bothers you so much?
A few years ago GM had a car running around the show circuit called the Code130R, it was to be an entry level 2 door sedan with RWD, a fun car. The program was cancelled and basically the new Camaro was made the one car for all instead. It has not worked, no matter how you spin it, -25% on the YTD is a terrible sales performance. The Code would have been an option for the sport compact/hot hatch crowd, where the Camaro, even in entry level 2.0T form, is not. Some complain that the Camaro is not functional enough? Another reason is…..it’s a Camaro. Many see the Camaro as their Dad’s car? The FR-S/Toyota 86/BRZ, GTI, WRX, etc…. are their cars. The Code would have been also. Code 130R = missed opportunity.
“Quotation marks are sometimes used to emphasize words or phrases.”
No, quotation marks are only ever used when referring to a direct quote said by a person or an organization.
Your new post reads much better, and doesn’t come off as if someone thinks a quoted words really means something nefarious or underhanded (why the hell was the word spin in quotation?). It now reads like something written by a human instead of a paranoid schizophrenic.
Hell, have an upvote.
Why the hell are you responding to everyone’s comments complaining about their wording? Get a life…
Because if you need incorrectly use quotation marks for emphasis instead of using words to make a well-worded explanation, then you just plain suck.
I’m not some lame out-of-work, english major vegan, but even I know when a post smacks of desperation when it has to isolate individual words to draw attention to itself.
Speaking of obtuse……
I would much prefer a 5.3 V8 Impala, rear wheel drive. I’d settle for transverse mounted all wheel drive.
OMG!!! I have been saying EXACTLY this for so long in older GM Authority posts and NOW the question comes up?. A 5.3 middle model is sooo appropriate. Want market share and defeat how FICA is kicking your @$$? Give the 5.3 a better cam, as that is all that separates any level of the LSx/LTx family for a good 400+hp and watch how it sells. Current choice is LT1 or V6???? Go low budget with no power features and no A/C to save weight and watch what it will do! Furthermore, give the shade tree mechanics the ability to pump up the power as THEY see fit and you’ll see Camaro’s kickin’ @$$. Currently too narrow an options band, IMHO. 5.3l option? Hell yessss! WE NEED AN ENTRY LEVEL V8!
The only buyers that would want a car that has no AC and no power windows and door locks would be guys buying these for racing. Thats a really small market.
I disagree. Northern buyers may not want to pay for A/C and frugal buyers may not want the power windows, door locks, or even the factory radio. Make these options/packages they can add/delete at their own discretion, just like transmission choice. People like to make the choice and not get pigeon holed with auto add options that add to the cost of every car.
I love this la-la land fantasy that there all these people out there that are just dying for no a/c cars with vinyl seats and roll up windows, as if there was lost tribe of people from 1965 that were out there that just hadn’t bought a car yet.
Cost savings, ok, here is a real basic primer on car design.
Crank windows-requires re-designing the door panel-more $$$$ no cost savings
No a/c-requires re-design of the HVAC controls and system, requires re-design of the accessory belts to accommodate for the missing a/c compressor-more $$$$ no cost savings
Adding the 5.3 to the line up-requires new EPA re-certification for that engine in that car-no cost savings, costs GM more $$$$
Lets just say that this is same for all the other lame 1972 ideas you want to add,
vinyl seats = more $$$$
3 on the tree = more $$$$
fuzzy dice = more $$$$
drum brakes etc etc etc.
And not lets add the increased production costs of having too tool up and stock all these new low production crank window door panels and 5.3 V8 etc and the increased cost of having this new variant built at LGR.
Congratulations, you just made a car thats, slower, worse, and more expensive than a base $36,000 Camaro SS.
You should get a promotion, heck, you should be program manager!
Yeah, ok , smart@$$. Try this on for size.
1. Keep the current controls for A/C but just delete the compressor and all related components and bracketry. Then, IF the owner wants to install A/C the controls are there =’s no redesign and no $1,000 charge.
2. Ok, everything seems to come with power windows and locks so keep them.
3. A radio delete is a no brainer as all it requires is a block off cover with the same factory wiring harness there if the OWNER chooses to put the radio in. Savings of at least $300. or they opt in for it.
3. No change to seat options EXCEPT for a rear seat delete option since it’s pretty useless any way. Costs savings? You tell me Einstein. Weight savings? 50-100lbs? Again , you tell me.
4. As for the engine itself which is what the point of this article is, I’ve already stated that the price difference between the L83 & L86 in the silverado is almost $2700. MSRP. What is not to like about THAT savings????
There is no difference in cam costs to put an LT1 cam in the L83 and the valves springs with rates to match the cam. Let’s call this the RPO L84. No extra costs for 400+hp. EPA Recert?? It would pass with flying colors and may not even be necessary as only change is cam that already passed in the LT1/L86.
If I was the project manager I’d make it work and quite losing sales to FCA and Ford while making a profit with satisfied customers……Mr. Bean counter.
No, MrR is right. The age of stripped out cheapskate performance cars is long dead because today, if people are going to spend lots of money, they’re going to want the best the can possibly get. It’s not practical for a consumer to spend less just to get a stripped out V8 model if it doesn’t even come with things like BT or an AC; it would be insulting and would show a level of ill-preparedness on GM’s part.
1. “Keep the current controls for A/C” and remind the buyer why making cheapskate decisions will always come back to bite them in the arse later.
3. Where the hell are cars made nowadays with junky Sony, Pioneer, and Kenwood in-dash radios that look like the belong in a late 90’s Civic? Radios, along with the few cars that still offer CD players, are all integrated with touchscreen interfaces.
That alone shows how out of touch you are.
4. There may be a $2700 difference between the L83 and the L86, but you’ve conveniently neglected to mention that there is also a 65hp and 80lb/ft difference as well, and that alone separates the boys from the men. Again, nobody wants a cheapskate product, and offering a crappier engine won’t make the consumer happy.
Man, you’re so full of bad ideas, your bargain basement Camaro would be as bad as a Mitsubishi.
And yet you’re still worried about sales when the real measure of success is ATP, of which the Camaro is doing just fine.
Really, if you want a Camaro with any meat on it, you either step up and get one or step off and settle for an ancient Challenger.
“Northern buyers may not want to pay for A/C”
Have you ever seen snow in your life?
Born and raised in New England pal, so yeah, I’ve seen snow. How about you? Do you even remember the blizzard of ’78? I lived it. Guess your just another smart@$$ like MrR. First car was a 442 with A/C that NEVER got used and was a parasitic waste.
Deep in Canada son. New England wouldn’t know cold if it bit them in the arse.
Who cares about 1978 (apart from those who are chronically disconnected from the current world). We have freezing temperatures and snow on the ground right the hell now, and you wouldn’t be able to sell a car here without air conditioning.
Just because your think you’re hard for not using AC decades ago doesn’t mean you speak for the consumers today. You sure as hell don’t when you think low-balling them with junky, decontented Camaro is going to tempt them away from the rest of the cars that can be had for $50K.
You’re fighting a loosing market battle, and the automakers are going where the money is, not where the volume was like back in your day.
Lastly, if you think there aren’t people younger than you with the money to pay for an SS that isn’t decontented, you’re not only dead wrong, but not in the market for a Camaro at all.
I think it would be better if you stepped off and found a more affordable market. Perhaps you could find a well-abused WS6 to help you relive a past that you’re only getting further away from each day.
More trolling BS, eh? I live in S. FL now where it’s hot as hell in the summer and yes I have A/C in my ‘Vette and use it when necessary. Climate change has made virtually everywhere warmer in the summer but it doesn’t mean consumers shouldn’t have a CHOICE which is all I’m saying. WANT A/C BUY IT. Don’t? Then at least be able to have a CHOICE. I don’t give a $hit how young or how much $$ ANYONE has, FOOL. Buy whatever you want but it’s ALL about choice and a 400+hp L83 would not be “decontented”. Do you even own a Camaro? Maybe it’s an SS and your scared $hitless some kid will buy a 5.3l, build it the way THEY want it and spank the $hit out of you for a lot less $$ with a “decontented” 5.3l…..”Step off”?? How about you F off, A$$hole.
With that kind of outlook, you’d probably make an argument that airbags should be optional. Anything for a cheapskate to save money, right?
Spank me? What, are you still racing other drivers on the highway? Are you a moron? Do you still live in the Fast and the Furious fantasy land where illegal street-racing is commonplace?
Still honking 3 times? Do you still flash your hazard lights after you’ve ‘spanked’ someone? Have you even been to a track?
Yeah, you’re definitely not someone who should have a Camaro with that kind of trashy, embarrassing public conduct.
You’re still going to have to step off. The money of the few will ultimately dictate how the cars of tomorrow are made, and for the most part, people want the complete package, not the cheapskate decontented models you’re wishing for.
What? Are smoking some of that newly legal weed up there?? Go back to your bong little boy where your ignorance and stupification is bliss. I’m done with you troll.
What are you talking about? It’s your loser generation that made pot publicly acceptable. It’s also your loser generation that made you think that performance cars should be decontented and made so cheap that they have no resale value.
You, and your whole generation, were habitually cheap and lazy; wanting the best car for no money instead of working hard and buying ONLY the best performance cars.
Nowadays, all you want are lame reminders of the past; cheapskate cars like the Charger and Challenger, and bemoaning modern day features that all performance cars need today to be marketable to greatest number of wealthy buyers.
As much as I don’t like the condescending tone that’s prevalent through your comments, I do agree with you. There is no money to be made by de-contenting the Camaro and that would just be a waste of time. Maybe five people want a Camaro without A/C, cruise control, power windows, and without a touchscreen. And even out of those five people, four of them would likely not buy one and are just complaining to complain.
By the way, stop painting entire generations with one brush. I don’t know how old you are, but labeling entire generations as losers makes you seem ancient. I could just as easily say what’s left of your generation has lost their ability to use critical thinking due to age, mental illness, or other factors, but that would be rude, untrue, and just plain f***ing annoying, just like every other comment that pretends everyone from a single generation acts the exact same way.
Do you remember 3 TV channels and the phone book?
Thats seems quaint an cute today, but I don’t really want to go back to then either.
Yes, I do and I don’t use the phone book anymore. BUT, OTA HD tv is still alive and well. So, your the person who loves to pay more to the cable company for that which you can get for free??? Not quaint. It’a called CHOICES. I’ll say the same to you as I did before. Wonder why people aren’t buying your product while they are buying the competition, FCA and Ford?? $$$ & CHOICES is why. I love the Camaro but it MUST compete on the SAME terms as the competition. Yes, that means multiple levels of the challenger and the straight up base lower price of the mustang. Pure and simple. There is, as I’ve stated before, a 120hp difference between the DOHC V6 and the 455hp SS camaro. Do you not get that a mid level needs to be found? The 2.0T will go away when the 2.7L arrives with 310+hp which will encroach upon the 3.6l V6 so there NEEDS to be a mid point between 310hp and 455-460hp. THAT is the 5.3l L83 @ 400hp. Bye Bye to the 2.0l AND the 3.6l V6. Not going backwards, but moving forward. Think about it, please.
Considering how overpriced the SS can get I would say a 5.3 V8 model would be a nice addition but it certainly needs more than it’s current weak for it’s size 355 HP rating as in the trucks. Ford is getting 395-460 out of a 5.0 liter V8 for goodness sake.
Yes Joe, that maybe so. However, a 465 hp twin cam 5.0 high-performance engine is not in GM’s short term Camaro lineup. The readily available 5.3 L L83 is a perfectly economical & budget minded V8 engine. 355 hp/383 lb/ft weak? In a stripped down budget oriented entry level Camaro? 200,000 + miles of reliable, daily driver, regular pump gas fun. That is what I would call an entry level V-8 engined Camaro!
Ford’s 5.0L is a completely different v8 engine. To put it in perspective Chevy has the 5.3L V8 that makes 355hp and 383tq Ford is 395hp/400tq. But where chevy is doing this with a OHV V8 with a single cam while ford takes four cams and a whole bunch of tech. There’d be no way that a OHV 5.0L V8 (stock production engine) would be achieving those numbers.
I truly think that this would be a great idea. Me personally i would love to see a slightly worked 5.3 in the non-SS body. (Somewhat how the old mustang LX used to be.) Taking the 5.3L V8 and throwing in a hotter head and cam package with a set of tri-y manifolds should give the car about 405hp which would be perfect. I’d buy that in a heartbeat. Especially if you can add a 1LE suspension package and everything else on the car with a 10-speed auto. Honestly Chevy would seriously be on to something if they did that. Just make sure that it starts as a stripped down car but you can still add options to it such as a cold air intake, active exhaust or the GM Performance borla exhaust, suspension upgrades, Brembo upgrades, GM wheel upgrades , Recaro seating, graphics, lights, etc. Oh and just throwing this out there, the red outline bowtie should make its appearance even on the flow-tie.
A 400+hp 5.3l L83 is totally doable from the factory with a simple cam change, bump the compression to 11.5 like the LT1/L86 and any valvetrain improvements needed to get it the 6600rpm redline as in the 6.2l engines. Here’s an article that shows how easy it was to do with the LS based 4.8l & 5.3l engines. My link blocked this post so go to superchevy and check out the build for these two engines and the power they produced.
And if GM swapped the cam out, it’s now no longer an L83, and has to be sent back to the engineers for testing and recertification by the SAE.
Is there any part of your thinking about this hypothetical entry-level Camaro that isn’t rooted in being the worst kind of cheapskate?
“Cheapskate”?? You are an @$$. Go spend your $$ on the SS because I’m sure as hell you couldn’t BUILD anything yourself….pathetic. Ever turn a wrench or are you one of those who PAYS for someone else with SKILL to build it for you? Yeah, that’s it isn’t it?? ROFLMAO….Stick with factory stock as anything other might scare you little boy.
I used to turn wrenches when I had my Camaro, but nowadays, you don’t have to anymore. It’s a legacy carryover from the past that doesn’t mean anything anymore, especially if you don’t have to do it because your factory stock car is already better than everything else on the road.
But you’re right. Factory stock is where me and millions of others will stay. It’s where all the best cars are, and none of them are cheapskate decontented models without AC.
I think you’ll find that the illusion of having choices leading to a better product is not only misleading, but factually incorrect when the final product is grossly substandard while pretended to be top shelf.
If you’re too cheap and lazy to pay for the best, you don’t deserve cut-rate, cheapskate versions. You also shouldn’t be asking GM to product such a car, as it shows you don’t have the means to get the best they offer.
Nobody likes a cheapskate.
Everybody’s missing the point that the 5.3 is externally identical (more or less) to the 6.2, so it 1) saves no weight and 2) more importantly likely saves no money as it would cost about the same to build. The only way this makes sense is if they have segment research that shows there are significant numbers of buyers who want a V8 but don’t want 460HP. They’d actually make less per car than on the SS since it would have to be priced lower but costs would be virtually the same–but maybe they make it up in volume. Maybe.
The actual problems don’t have anything to do with the “size” of the V8. 1) can’t see out of them, which is going to kill you with typically shorter female buyers, 2) the SS is now hideous with the new nose, and 3) the SS is $4k higher than a comparable Mustang.
is the 5.7L hemi not more or less identical to the 6.4L or 6.2L hemi in the challenger right? so why not? a 405hp 5.3L Camaro with the Non SS body would make sense in a lot of ways.
“2) more importantly likely saves no money as it would cost about the same to build.”
Then please explain me this.
2018 SILVERADO 1500 4WD Double Cab, Standard Box LTZ comes with the 5.3l option as well as the 6.2l option.
The difference in base price between the two in base configurator trim on Chevy’s website is $2,695. between the two. I’ve pointed this out on these forums before when people like you say the same stuff with no proof. That kind of $$ would make a Camaro 5.3l base V8 a lot more attractive to a lot of people. Make A/C optional and your likely looking at, or close to, another 1K off.
“The difference in base price between the two in base configurator trim on Chevy’s website is $2,695. between the two. I’ve pointed this out on these forums before when people like you say the same stuff with no proof.”
I’ve found proof. The L83 is 65hp slower and 80lb/ft weaker than the L86. There’s no reason to insult the V8 buyer with a substandard engine.
However, the LGX at 335 hp and 285TQ already satisfies this corner of the market, and does so just fine.
Besides, the V6 provides a clear line in the sand between the mid-range V6’s and the hi-po V8’s. There simply isn’t a business case for an entry level V8 if a cheaper V6 with comparable power can do the same job.
OMG, you are that stupid, aren’t you? No $hit Sherlock the 5.3l is less powerful! Is it $2700. less powerful?? NO douchey. Take the $2700 and build that 5.3l with better heads, cam, and tune and it will embarrass the 6.2l LT1/L86 all day long. Yeah, there are all kinds of performance parts out there for the V6 to get it to even 400hp, right? NOT. V6 @ 335hp, with no performance upgrade path, and the LT1 @ 455hp and a 120hp difference between the two, yet there’s no room for a 400hp L83 priced between those two??? Apples and oranges moron. Nice try though, still only shows your ignorance. Here’s some FACTS for you to chew on.
In 1969 there were the following engines available for customers to CHOOSE from.
2 x straight sixes, 2 x 327’s, 2x 350’s, 1 x396, 2 x 427 COPO’s.
That’s 9 CHOICES depending on the power level YOU THE CUSTOMER WANTED!! Choices pal, THAT is what I’m talking about, not being a “cheapskate”. I’m done with you as there is no educating the ignorant so go buy your Camaro off the dealer lot ’cause you probably never heard of or actually ordered a performance vehicle.
And whats more important for GM? Getting the highest ATP possible with a single model, or stratifying their models with redundant choices that command less money?
And all you want is hand-job memories of the past that you can’t remember anymore. The 60’s are dead, and the cars we have today are far and away better than anything from that time.
Know your place, dude. You’re not in it anymore.
Your sooo pathetic, F’n TROLL. This is what YOU do on every post! I’ve seen your BS before and it continues here. Troll, F’n Troll, I see you douchey. Know your place graw.awhhh, kiddie.
Well, you simply aren’t in the market for a Camaro. The myth of the blue-collar man working his way up into a Cadillac is a quaint fantasy of the past. The same thinking applies the Camaro today; the Camaro simply isn’t a blue-collar car anymore.
You can call me a troll all you like. At the very least, i’m a realist and I can read the writing on the wall:
Performance cars today are toys for the rich, period. There is virtually no place for the middle class there anymore.
That’s the reality of the performance world today. For your own sake, it’s better to know your place and know what cars are available to you there. Asking GM to lower the bar, just for you, is insulting to GM’s engineers and their efforts.
And you obviously don’t have one, fantasy or not,Troll. Please tell us all what you have? NOTHING. Lame BS as ALWAYS. TROLL with nothing…..
And you’re not a troll wanting GM to make decontented cars just for you so you can relive a fantasy memory of your past?
Oh, you’ll make empty promises that you can mod the car to smoke people on the highway, but if you did, you’d still be biggest loser. Modding simply isn’t impressive anymore, and it’s certainly not something to boast of.
The Fast and the Furious is a lame franchise. Roll racing isn’t real racing. The 60’s are dead. The cars you grew up with are trash. Gas is far more expensive. The money of the few dictates what becomes of the sports cars of tomorrow.
You can grab GM crate engine prices and make endless hypothetical builds all you like, but you’ll never make it happen. Only the engineers and the marketers can do that.
What I see is someone who want (and whines) about how GM isn’t making cars exactly how he wants; with redundant and costly options that only further drive up development costs.
If you can’t accept the fact that there simply isn’t a market for an affordable V8 Camaro, no amount of your pleading and whining will convince others that it should happen.
Done with you,Troll.
Guys, guys, guys, the premise of this thread is entry-level V8 powered Camaro. Anything 6.2 L and beyond, like a commodity, command a premium. With that premium comes the factory warranty and implied reliability of factory high-performance engines, plus the status of exclusivity.
GM could cam-up and port-out the heads, etc. of the 5.3, which is all in great. However the engineering and certification costs defeat the whole purpose of entry-level V8 segment economics (read, bean counters). Think mid to late 80s 5.0 Mustang LX. Bare bones, entry level, V8 performance, regular unleaded pump gas and years of trouble free fun. Baseline Camaro + 5.3 L83 + tuned intake and exhaust systems + manual transmission availability (for those awesomely endless burnouts) + 18 inch alloy wheels! Tick the optional order form if you want more.
I agree with you 99%. Put the LT1’s cam and valvetrain for 6600rpm redline (- Minus the larger valves/heads) in the L83. No engineering, no head porting, no certification required. 400+hp easily.
Oh yes there would be recertication issues! You can’t weasel out of that one!
If GM did do your cheapskate idea, you can image their lawyers would pitch a fit, and if GM still didn’t listen, their professional conduct of their engineers would be immediately challenged by their professional association, and with the irrecoverable risk of having their professional licence revoked thereby prohibiting them from practicing engineering nationwide.
No engineer worth their salt would stamp or sign off on anything that wasn’t tested for public safety or quality performance standards. The risk to their professional licence is too great.
You want GM to take quality control shortcuts like they did in the 70’s? You think they’d get away with that crap again in this day and age were the public eye for quality is far more demanding than ever before?
Ahh that magic 5.3 V8 thats going to suck $15,000 out of the MSRP if the Camaro just like that and everyone will come running to buy their magic $20,000 V8 Camaro!!!
Yeah!!!!!
Oh man, thats some funny stuff. Between the cheapskate nickname and all the clever spelling to avoid the profanity filter makes for good humor.
Glad you liked it. 😉 At least someone has to know how to retaliate with a smile against the trolls.
But you are the troll. You keep thinking that performance cars should be affordable.
Bang for buck cars bring in the hardcore guys. These are the guys who tune their own cars and know what equipment really works and what equipment is for the pretty boy club. You’ll find these guys at the track, not the local convenience store parking lot. The fastest cars have the least equipment – check out the Demon if you have any doubts about that. When I bought my LX 5.0 back in 89, they were hard to find. Ford sold more LX’s than GT’s that year…300 lbs of savings…3 tenths in the quarter. That’s a car length. Most guys today wouldn’t know what to make of a budget racer. They would rather have the one with 22″ tires and electromagnetic suspension…even if they will never push their cars anywhere near their max capability. Gotta have it to look the part anyway, right?
The 1LE is a capable package, but then fluffing it up with heated/cooled seats, flashing dash lights (really?) and $1k options only takes away from its performance cred. KISS applies to hardcore engineering, but load it to the gills with gadgetry feeds the bottom line. Guess who wins that one? Chevrolet dealers would rather sell a $36k Camaro with $15k in options (nearly 50% of the base price), than a $35k stripped down street racer with truly functional performance equipment. GM and Ford have both lost their balls. Dodge seems to be the only one willing to offer over a dozen choices. They appeal to everything from the serious racer to the wanna look the part speed racer. Maybe that’s why they have the fastest growing following…
A 5.3 with around 380HP and 400 FPT available in the lost priced least equipped Camaro you can get as a reasonable price option would be great.
I know this is an older post but it seems a sensable place to put this comment. I truly feel that Chevrolet is missing out with a lot of things in their lineup. Both Ford and Dodge have gone with classic designations such as the 5.0 Mustang, the Hemi 392 and the Hemi 345 along with the Daytona, the Scat Pack and the T/A. Chevrolet needs to stop trying to pay Ford so much attention and focus on what Dodge has be doing for quite some time and that is, selling cars that people like. Dodge constantly sells their insanity and it absolutely works. From the 5.7L Hemi V8 cars and trucks all the way up to a 797 Hellcat Redeye and everything in between, Dodge sells Muscle! My question is why WONT Chevrolet/GMC do the same?
Starting with Chevy, If GM would get rid of the Spark, Sonic, Cruze, Malibu, Trax, Equinox, Traverse & upcoming blazer, The Chevrolet lineup would be open to some amazing things.
1.) Camaro: Taking the new Alpha-2 VSS-R platform, Chevrolet would need to redesign the Camaro to bring in a modern interpretation of the Second & third generation Camaro. a Sleek shape, corvette style liftback and Targa top options, The car should offer slightly more generous rear leg room and trunk space than the mustang with improved visibility yet not sacrifice performance. The 2.0T and the 3.6L V6 engine options should be dropped for the new 310hp 2.7L with 348lb-ft of torque bumped to more of a performance oriented engine offerening 325hp and 360lbft of torque mated to the 10-speed auto or 7 speed manual. Above that should be the entry level 5.3L V8 that currently offers 355hp and 383lb ft torque but of course with a L99 top end with a revised DFM system, Z28 LS7 exhaust manifolds, and a free flowing exhaust ( with chambered mid mufflers tuned to sound like the V8 Camaros of the ’70’s) puting out 405hp/420lb-ft of torque along with comfortable, sporty interiors, 4-piston front and rear brembo brakes, 19″ standard wheels, with 8 different options (4 19″ wheel options & 4 20″ wheel options) non magnetic ride sport tuned suspension, specific hood options, a factory optioned high out put head and cam package putting out 445hp/450tq, optional “chambered” exhaust system, optional 6-piston brake package for the front, optional suspension upgrades, Optional “Camaro” interior option, Optional speaker/Amp/subwoofer package, optional navigation w/ HUD, optional aero packages and spoilers and call this trim level the Z/28. Above this should be the SS package with a slightly larger 6.6L “LT1″ V8 coming in at 490hp and 485lb-ft of torque with all of the 1LE performance parts as standard on the SS package along with the 10-speed automatic option and then above that you have the ZL1 with the 755hp LT5 V8 and all of the bells and whistles.
Following that would be an Alpha-2 VSS-R sedan. Now I know that some people will disagree with me but i dont care. With the Charger running around, the Impala name just doesn’t do a Charger Rival justice and the Chevelle should be the name of the new sedan from Chevrolet to do battle with the Charger. Even with a 2.7L AWD base Chevelle Laguna, a 5.3L Chevelle RS, a 6.6L Chevelle SS-396 and a hellcat stomping Chevelle SS-R LT5 755hp V8 powered super sedan with styling blended from the 67-69 Chevelle SS in sedan form , that would be an awesome car.
Chevrolet’s styling of the new blazer is cool but it needs to be traverse sized on a rear drive chassis with all wheel drive and the 2.7L LS, the 5.3L RS and the 6.6L SS options competing with the Durango. It does need to be Camaro inspired inside and outside along with performance and handling capabilities inspired by the Camaro as well
The Tahoe could use a bit of excitment as well to go along with it’s awesome utilitarian ways. The RST is cool but Chevy really needs a modern reincarnation of the ’99 Tahoe Limited SUV with a 6.6L V8, lowered, blacked out and cool with performance enhancements. This is not an SS so it wont be expected to be an SS type vehicle but a performance Tahoe (better than the RST) is what is should be
Another cool (and missed opportunity) is the Colorado. This is what the new blazer should be built on. The Colorado needs to look more like the Silverado and yeah it needs a lowered, 5.3L V8 option with a 10-speed auto/AWD setup with brembo brakes, magnetic ride and exhaust that exits in front of the rear wheels. Short bed, four doors, performance hood, hard one-piece bed cover with an integrated rear spoiler, 20” wheels, etc and this would be a seriously cool truck (like what the Dakota R/T used to be). There also needs to be a diesel ZR2 and the 3.6L needs to be retired for the new 2.7L turbo. The blazer needs to be a stronger ZR2 with Dana axles, a 10-speed “Allison transmission on the back of the V6 Duramax, with dual exhaust along with a base option with the 2.7L turbo/10-speed auto/7-speed manual, 4×4 and a 5.3L V8 option. should have a removable top and a wash and go interior.
Lastly the Silverado 1500 needs a few things to its already incredible lineup. an upgraded 5.3L for the RST trim package, a 495hp 6.6L SS Silverado, an LT4 650hp Cheyenne ultra high performance ultra high luxury pickup and a few two toned options on the new trucks, especially a Scottsdale & Scottsdale Deluxe version of the Trail Boss 4×4. Honestly the 2500HD and 3500HD need the two tone options and Scottsdale options as well.
Only other lineup I think needs attention right now is Buick. I truly feel that GM should focus all of its electric cars, hybrid cars and autonomous vehicles right here with this brand. An all electric performance “Alpha-2 VSS-R Avista born to take on the Tesla P100D but with better styling inside and out and better performance since the motor would be born from the E-COPO Camaro and the car would come in coupe and quad coupe setup with suicide style rear doors like the Saturn Ion quad coupe used to have but with power windows, Buick could truly take on Tesla and win as the best electric car brand along with also having Hybrid cars. Buick is in a unique place right now where they could have a lineup of vehicles like I mentioned above as well as having the hybrid and electric commuter cars and subcompact lifestyle unibody “trucks” granted i would not disrespect the S10 name on this truck but it would need to be something new that had that “green” feel to it. This is where i see the future of Buick being. That brand that found it’s niche in being a go to brand in between a few different niches. ranging from super affordable, to sporty, to premium with the Avenir lineup still going strong.
Now GMC is doing just fine. As much as i would love to see the GMC lineup bring back the Pontiac car lineup as the car lineup of GMC, i doubt it would happen. Still it would be quite nice to see a more premium variant to the Camaro, Chevelle & Trailblazer (Call them the Pontiac Firebird (Trans Am) and the Pontiac GTO (a real GTO this time) even though it would have 4-doors it would still be bad ass!!! Just like the Charger (not like the 300, even though the last 300 SRT was cool). Yes, I know, it would never happen but it would be cool. Oh yeah and the GMC Version of the Colorado based blazer would be a reincarnation of the H3 Hummer but with a 5.3L V8 and a diesel option and a proper off road suspension. Honestly, I think (MY Opinion) this would be really cool!)
Lastly Cadillac would Adopt the Corvette and bring the vette to the level it finally needs to be as a hyper luxury super car with the E-Ray as the pinnacle of electric performance super cars. The lesser models would have variants of the V8 Blackwing motor, inlcuding a V8 Blackwing hybrid pushing nearly 800hp and over 800lb-ft of torque with all-wheel drive and a DCT 10-speed transaxle for the rear engine sports car. The car would borderline insanity but be docile enough to be daily driven. Cadillac would have at least 4-cars with the hyper performance powertrain including the Corvette a 2+2 coupe, a full size sedan and a mid size sedan. This would extend Cadillac’s reach into that upper echelon of vehicles along with other luxury cars, luxury sports cars and touring cars to compete with Rolls Royce, Benltey, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Porsche as well as AMG, and BMW. I could see this being a bright future for GM.
With this lineup, you have something for everyone. Hybrid lover, electric lovers, commuters, truck lovers, high end car lovers, earth lovers and gear heads can all find a GM vehicle that they could call their own. That’s how you have something for every market. I just set up a full lineup that takes on cars such as Hondas and Toyotas all the way up to Hyper cars, to muscle cars and everything else. GM would be in a much better place financially with this lineup. No they wouldn’t throw everyone else out of business but they’d take a large chunk of everyone’s sales. All of this falls on their new platform strategy and goes with everything GM currently has.
***** I forgot to say about the new blazer moving to the RWD setup and being traverse sized. That blazer needs to be the Trailblazer and the Colorado based one needs to be the Blazer. ******