Ever since General Motors first announced that Holden would cease local production in 2017, the future of its iconic Commodore nameplate has been up in the air. Former Holden CEO and vice-president of sales and marketing at GM International Operations, Mike Devereux, said last year the model would live on past the current VF-generation car, but at the time it wasn’t clear if it would retain its rear-wheel drive layout. For Holden fans, this news was bad enough, but a new report from News Corp Australia indicates the Commodore nameplate is doomed after all.
The next full-size sedan to wear a lion and stone badge will come from China and will allegedly ride on a new, front-wheel drive global vehicle architecture. For many, the deposition of the Commodore name will be upsetting, but others may welcome it, as historically Commodores have been rear-wheel drive and had a V8 engine option on offer.
Holden’s sales and marketing executive, Phil Brook, has been pleading with Devereux to keep the Commodore name around. He reportedly has said he needs “the Commodore name to help sell this car”. Brook has denied these rumors, but did admit to News Corp Australia the Commodore nameplate is “up for discussion.”
Last year, Devereux told reporters the automaker had already begun work on the next-generation Commodore, which some speculated would be called ‘VJ’.
“The interesting thing about the fascination of the Commodore name – and frankly it’s the reason why I wanted to lay that down today to end any speculation – is that people love this nameplate, and that we are going to have another one of these,” Devereux was quoted in saying.
If Holden’s next full-size sedan arrives on the shores of Oz without a Commodore badge and with a front-wheel drive layout, Chevrolet may begin to import other performance models into the region to fill the void. Newly appointed HSV boss Tim Jackson said earlier this year the performance sub-brand will continue operations beyond 2017. Without the Commodore to hop up, HSV may be tasked with adding some Australian flair to performance models imported from North America, which could include a next-generation Chevrolet SS or Camaro. The brand could also diversify itself and focus on smaller performance models, such as those from Opel’s OPC line.
Comments
Lets make this simple. Holden will still have a RWD V8 powered car to replace this one in 2017-18. They may even get a coupe this time with the sedan. Imagine a cheaper CTS platform with a V8. Sounds like a good combo.
As to the FWD model that will be added I am not sure what that may be. A new Gen Impala? What ever it is a new name is in order as I would never apply the old one to a FWD. Or could the new FWD be a Opel based sedan we have yet to see?
This will be interesting to watch.
scott, the Opel Isignia OPC will be sold as a Holden before 2017 so it will be an Isignia
Not a bad choice. It is due for a make over so would you get the new one or the last years of the old one.
As long as Chevy continues to produce the SS in Canada along side the Camaro, I really don’t have a problem with this. They can then import that car to Australia.
Sorry the odds are it will be built with the Camaro when production of the Gen 6 moves to Michigan and is built with the ATS and CTS lines.
There should be no reason they can not export them from there.
The Chevy SS will die, as it is a Holden that sells in small numbers. SS only survives if Commodore lives on and if this car it’s not some how matted to Buick (and maybe Opel) as rumors suggest.
Personally, I hope Buick doesn’t take the lead on this. Sounds like a LaCrosseis going to Oz.
I think you are wrong, as long as the SS is a limited production vehicle and tooling is there to put a sedan on the chassis, it will happen. There are a lot of other global GM markets that utilize the current RWD Zeta platform for their cars. Since most of these market are dry and don’t receive a lot rain or snow, a front drive replacement does not make sense nor will it offer the performance these markets desire. GM/Chevrolet will also need to maintain a viable RWD chassis and sedan body for police vehicles.
You also need to remember the flagship Cadillac is going to have an all new RWD platform. If they can build the Camaro off the Alpha, why couldn’t they build a bigger Chevy or Buick off this new chassis to help offset the costs. The only thing I could possibly see them shelving would be the “SS” only name.
Well I know you are wrong.
The Zeta will vanish after 2017-2018 globally.
As for FWD it is more about MPG and space as you can package the drivetrain into a smaller package and cut weight and add space to the interior by removing the tunnel.
The truth is FWD does not add traction it only make it easier for those unskilled in driving a car in the snow. With FWD you point and gas where you have to learn how to steer into and out of a skid with a RWD. But that is no longer an issue anymore. Note in a FWD when you accelerate the weight transfer is from front to the rear of the car unloading the tires. This is why the top classes in Drag Racing use RWD. It is simple physics. For ever action there is a equal and opposite reaction. Even the sport compact racers have to use wheelie bars to keep the load on the front tires.
FWD was sold as better traction to the public and they bought the lie fully.
As for a SS on the Omega GM would love to do it but there is little point as the CAFE would be an issues and to make it light enough would cost more than a Chevy should cost. Now you can use more light weight materials in a LTS and a Cadillac SUV/CUV they are said to be working on as their price points would permit it.
The SS now has been marketed as a 4 door Camaro and that will not change. The Alpha as we have seen is more than large enough based on the CTS and you would not want anything larger. You will see the SS on the Alpha.
You can not build cars just with the idea that this would make a good car. You have to factor in all of the other elements as in cost, weight, number of models etc. You do not make a business case you do not get the car.
I would not be surprised if Buick shares in the Omega as it will have a price point to better support it.
Holden could get a Caprice based on this.
As for Police packages RWD is not needed anymore. Ford is killing the market with the Taurus and Explorer. AWD at a price departments can afford with better mileage with Turbo V6 cars that have not given them any maintenance issues. Also the larger SUV like the Tahoe is very popular now as they are fast, handle well and durable. Not to mention all the room.
Scott3, I don’t write or think like you, and you shouldn’t expect we all would be able to put our opinions down as eloquently or as intelligently as you think you do. But, most of the time it seems we share the same opinion. I don’t think we are that far off in what we both said above. I too was pointing out to Mr. Marcus that the SS will live on with the Alpha platform where he was stating the SS will not be back. I said to him, I “think” you’re wrong rather than I “know” you’re wrong. I said “think” because there is always a possibility someone other than you or I will be right down the road. It is entirely within the realm of possibility GM could decide any one of their cars does not make a good business case and they get rid of it. Seems that happened in 2002 when the Camaro went on what is now called a hiatus, or putting Pontiac, Olds, and Saturn out to pasture.
I know the Zeta is going away, and I think most people here know that, and I shouldn’t have to re-explain it is going away when saying markets around the world will probably want whatever RWD vehicle that will replace the one they have on Zeta.
I am very aware of the “simple physics” of a FWD v RWD v AWD, drag cars, sport compacts, end loads, torque, over steer, under steer, down force, how they work in dry, slick, smaller packages for mpg purposes, or whatever words you want to use to describe your obvious self given distinction of having higher knowledge of the subject. Not knowing you personally I can’t speak for your driving experience or where you get your expertise on all these matters, but it probably doesn’t actually come from any seat time.
Then you state I am wrong about the possibility of a lower cost car on the Omega and you seem to assume I was saying the SS would go to this platform. I never mentioned this is where the SS would end up. I merely mentioned the platform was coming and I could see the possibility and a “Why not situation” of it being used for a Chevy or Buick rather than just for the Cadillac. You say I was wrong about that, and then turn around and write it could be used as a Buick or possibly a Holden Caprice. You contradicted yourself in the same post. I too was merely pointing out the possibility of a car other than Cadillac being built on Omega. If it is cost effective and the market desires it, then “why not” the platform will be there. The manufacturers will always find a way to work with CAFE standards. They do it now and they’ll do it down the road.
You are correct in regards to the Police cars. Somehow Ford has the market cornered there. However, Chevrolet and Dodge have cars out there and a few agencies are using them rather than the Fords. If either GM or Fiat/Chrysler have the platforms and have some of the market no matter how small, they are going to offer a competitor. It would be dumb not to at least try and compete for those fleet sales. If you look around most agencies are favoring the Explorer over the Taurus, because the Taurus is to small to be a reasonably comfortable patrol car for a 12.5 hour shift. The other reason a lot of the municipalities are sticking with the Fords is because their mechanics are ASE and Ford certified. It’s cheaper to keep working on Fords than to send all those guys and gals to school to be certified on the others.
I figured this place was where fans or non fans of GM cars and trucks could come and discuss, hypothesize, and offer consumer opinion regarding the product, without fear of the grammar or syntax NAZI’s. I get it, you obviously spend more time on this forum than anyone else, you post more than anyone else, you know quite a bit about GM cars. You are usually insightful with your posts. I think a lot of people, myself included find common agreement with what you have to say. I don’t know if it is because you are here so often and you feel the need to prove you know more than everyone else, but really and lately you are just coming off as an insufferable know it all. Relax and have fun with this stuff.
MRB Sorry if I rubbed you wrong here as that was not my intention.
To me this is like bench racing and we come here to debate and speculate. What some perceive as argument is just good debate to most. Trust me you have never seen me go hard core here. I have played on some tough web sites and I can tell you I do not back down.
This is the deal I am not smarter than anyone. Now there are many things because of who I know and because of my job I get may know more than some. That does not make me smarter just better informed.
I grew up in the auto world and life the auto life and work in the racing industry. I have to deal with people from all walks of automotive back grounds globally so it gives me an advantage.
I also have a good understanding of GM and how they work or in some cases don’t work because of past family that was in lead engineering . Also I have done a lot of research on thing GM and even has some of my work published in the past.
The SS will be on the Alpha as they are well into the program. I know nothing is guaranteed till it is in the show room but lets put it this way they are not going to change it to the Omega for several reasons. Cost of the larger platform. The mass of the larger platform etc.
Part of the delay of the LTS was the issue of spreading around a limited Omega and still making CAFE for the next how many years they will sell the car. It will be low production so a higher price will be needed and you will be hard pressed to sell a SS at a higher cost than today. The price of performance will only go up from here forward with the V8.
Even if you add a Hybrid system to the Omega it will only add to the cost.
The two biggest reasons for the high Ford sales is MPG and less gas used. The other is price as most departments can get them cheaper. I do not say this because I am smart but that is what the Police I know have told me. Their budgets are strapped and even 1-4 MPG is a big savings. State police who need high speed and durable RWD cars are mostly going to the Chrysler and GM but local departments that are the bulk are using for savings.
I am sure there are other factors in play but budgets are the prime call here.
As for FWD the big lie was sold years ago on the traction and it was easy to sell as FWD takes less skill to control in the snow. I have own both and can take my RWD anywhere with no issue much easier than the FWD. You just have to know how to deal with over steer and under steer but with stability control that is not longer a factor.
What I hated on the early FWD before traction control is you lose the front end with wheel spin often you lose the steering in the snow. The car just wants to go straight. With RWD you can kick the rear out steer with the throttle or steering wheel.
I have a background in racing Stock Cars, Drag Racing, limited Road Race and Autocross. I understand car control and love nothing more than to drift a car out in the corner with the rear just on the edge of grip.
The whole future is on mass and to do it right now size matters. As prices of Aluminum and other light weight materials go will determine where the auto size will go. As the CAFE goes up there is no magic bullet that will fix this other than mass as of this point. To retain cost size is the cheapest thing to do.
Anyways I am not trying to argue with you and only debate. I will not get mad if you disagree and by debating it only helps sharpen my point of view or disprove it one way or the other.
You are a good guy here and I have no issue with you what so ever. In fact the only ones I have issue with are the trolls that just want to bring stupidity to a post that is not even debatable. We only have about 2 here like that. When I mean stupidity I mean saying things just to get things started that are so far off based it is only meant to stir trouble.
So if I disagree with you I only mean to debate. I may not always agree with you but I do respect you. Do not take my advantage of information as a sign I think I am smarter. It is only that I have a lot more contacts than some and catch a lot of information on the how and whys in the industry.
Also not all my points are how I really feel. I would love to bring back Pontiac in a second in my heart but I know that it was the right move to remove them from the market.
I have a Automotive degree that is my feeling side and a Business degree that is my thinking side so I have conflict in me on many topics.
I hope we are good here and you understand what I mean.
This article has already been discredited. The story is now an import crime Opel Germany.
If the SS is to continue, why would this car not also serve as the basis of the next VJ Commodore?
Why would GM make an alpha based SS as a mere North American niche model.
The Newcorp article has already been proved wrong. I could see a LaCrosse based “Impala-like” model being positioned below Commodore but doubt the program is done considering the upcoming new SS.
And with all this news GM still thinks Holden is going to be the number 1 selling brand in Australia by 2022 – Dream On!! The “we’re still here” advertising campaign will need to change to “we were here and then we screwed up 69 years of success”
I would not predict them being number one but I see them being more viable, profitable and still around. Holden is just too small to be on their own anymore as the global markets and the cost of product development is just out of control.
Holden sold just over 70,000 cars last year and even before the announced closing of the line they only sold 114.000 the year before while Mazda was leading the market with the imported Mazda 3 and Toyota with a good share of imports was over 200,000 units.
In the big picture Holden is too small to go it alone anymore. Australians are buying other imports in great numbers.
When you have a company that sells about as many cars as Chevy sells Camaro’s in a year or they sell two and a half times the Cruze in America than the entire Holden line up you can not pay to design and develop your own cars any longer.
I feel for you but the realities of the market have caught up to you. Holden was one of the last hold outs but there was no way to avoid it.
The problem is auto makers are in business to make money not to just build cars for national pride. If that were the case we all would have our own special car but that is no longer possible. All these companies are no longer nationalistic. GM is not more American or Australian or European anymore as they are global. Same for Ford, Toyota etc. You build a platform and tailor it for the global market but tune it for each segment. This holds the cost down and the profits up.
Even many smaller companies like Honda and BMW are working to remain independent by working with dance partners. Even larger companies like GM and Ford are sharing development on transmissions and other parts.
Time have changed and how cars are build, marketed and sold have changed. There is no romantic dream out there of hey this is a good idea lets build it anymore. I wish there was but no one can afford that anymore.
Look for more major changed in the market and more mergers and alliances with other MFG. Mazda is desperate in need of help since they lost Ford and the Alfa deal fell through. Even with good product they are struggling with cost. Having the number one car in your market is great but it still does not pay the bills.
If GM had let Holden stay independent they would be gone in 10 years or less. The only way they could survive is to sell cars in other markets and the money was just not right for that.
Sorry Scott you have toatally missed the boat. Holden since 1948 has been Australia’s own car company and in past times has held huge market share. The reason that has been erroded is some very dubious decisions by GM with regard to product, Australia’s inept government and the wierd facination the Australians have for Japanese crap. As I have said many times before in Europe japanese cars are viewed in the same way as any other domestic appliance like a fridge or a freezer, and with very few exceptions that is exactly what they are. The most dramatic decline in sales was when GM decided to import a whole load of Korean garbage and palm it off as home grown Holden products. The Vauxhall – Opel badged Holden’s of the future will I have no doubt sell in reasonable numbers but I don’t see any way that shipping cars from high cost areas of Europe half way round the world is going to in any way improve profitability. There was no reason why Holden could not have continued with Commodore production and produced a version for Europe to sit above the Insignia (VXR8 in the UK is too highly specialized) and that may then have made the case for at least keeping some car production alive in Australia. Of course it is too late now, GM have damaged the Holden brand beyond repair and make no mistake Holden will NOT be the best selling brand in 2022, no doubt that title will be held by some Japanese basket case.
I do not agree as Everything you are seeing now is what we saw here years ago. You are in transition and thing will be different like it or not.
The sad part is most people are not in love with the car anymore and that is how appliances like Honda get away with what they sell.
Economic reasons are also in play and the fact is Holden in a good year sells less cars than GM sells in California and many other places alone. The market there is just too small for Holden to be autonomous anymore. I wish it were not true but all the major automakers are moving to a one size fit all foot print globally as they can no last if they do not move to this plan.
The Zeta is the last of a dying breed where you could build and sell a car like it is such low volumes and still get away with it. But it is to the point they are not getting away with it anymore. It only lasted as long as it did because it was the strongest seller, just look at all the other Australian models you have already lost. It was not just chance or the automakers hating Australia but the economics of a small market are in play.
You just have to remember that while Holden sold 100K units last year that is a drop in the bucket to most other markets. Here in the states if a product sells less than 100K units it had better have a good mark up on price as it will be pulled just for one model.
You can not look at this emotionally to make sense of it as it is pure economics. GM would have kept Holden autonomous if they could pay their own way but with ever increasing cost of development the money was just getting thin and would be at a deficit in a few years.
I know many will take the loss personal but GM is not going to lose money to just keep 30k-50K customer happy with one car. You sell at a loss as they would in the future you will close the doors entirely.
It is now a time for rebuilding and acceptance. What is key now for GM is to move the best models they have to Australia and give you the best cars they can give you and tune them to your market needs.
In time many who are upset will comeback or never leave.
The bottom line it is what it is and it was not going to be different. I hear yet people here saying how GM could have saved Pontiac yet they are still spending billions to rebuild the present brands here and yet they complain GM is not done with them. GM has limits on money and man power like any other company and you can only do so much so fast. Adding an damaged division like Pontiac would have only stressed a overloaded system even more and hurt the recovery of the divisions we have now.
I know many people do not like to here the business end of car making as it is not the fun and exciting part but it is the one that pays to keep the lights on. No business case and income no company.
The next 10 plus years are going to be volatile in the auto industry. We have already lost many companies and divisions in the last 10 years and we will see more companies fade. We also will see more alliances with larger companies looking to join together to save development cost.
You really have too look big picture on this stuff. I used to think the same way as you but I have spent a lot of time speaking to people in the industry in and out of GM and as they tell me the same stories of raging cost.
Hey when you see GM and Ford work together on a 8 speed transmission and 6 speed, then you see a new prototype F 150 Ford truck coming from the GM Warren proving grounds that should send a strong signal how dire things really are if the two greatest competitors are working this close.
These are topic most auto enthusiast magazines do not touch upon but industry publications do and it is a shame that more do not see the information they have. Crains is one of the best but it is not easy to fine unless you subscribe. I get some aftermarket publication magazines because of my job and it is the same thing there.
This is just the side of the story that more need to hear and see but it is not easy to find outside the companies.
My hearts with you but that is not enough anymore. It scares me the more I read and learn on the business side of the entire industry. Add to this the lack luster cry from the public for fun cars make it even worse.
Every time I see a Autonomous car like the one from Google I bristle at the love for it or the indifference by so many toward it.
You and I as car lovers are a dying breed in the world.
What North American don’t seem to get is that to many Australians, Holden is an Australian company, irrespective of who owns it. As such, Holden is expected to beat a path to suit Australians. Other brands do not have this burden because they are foreigners.
If Holden starts behaving like a foreigner, Australians will turn on it in a way that they would not turn on Toyota for instance. Both Ford and Toyota announced their planned departure from Australian manufacture, but Holden was the company that caught all the flack, not the other two.
It is unfortunate that Holden is being held to a “higher standard”, but that is the way it is. So you have to be very careful how you handle brand images such as Commodore, and even if it costs a lot, you better give them a RWD sedan. Being priced high, it may well end up as a transition car, while FWD models and SUV’s fill the gap.
Put another way, how do you think Germans would react if the VW Golf came from China. They would boycott it. Same goes for Holden, especially if no RWD sedan is available.
I get it but with the market all being imports this will fade away fast. Now if Ford or Toyota had kepted production in country or Ford had a new Falcon GM would really see trouble but as it is this too shall pass.
Here with the loss of Pontiac and Olds. there was many upset customers. Many promising to never by GM again. A few did carry this out but research has shown most have stayed at GM. You still see a grumbler but for the most part they all stayed here.
As for others it just depends. For a while the Beetle was built in Mexico and shipped to Germany. They had no issue with that. Many Porsche models are made in Eastern Europe now and no one complains.
We will see the new Volvo coming from China and time will tell what happens here.
Many cast major ill will to Rolls when BMW took them over. The bodies and engines are German but yet sale are just as high as ever. Same for a VW owned Bentley.
The lines that were at one time never crossed have been erased in many areas anymore. Australia is a little behind in this as the rest of the markets have gone through this starting in the 70’s through the early 2000’s.
The fact is brand loyalty is decreasing globally and you are now just entering the new phase there. It is sad but the market is wide open and more competitive than ever. Those people GM and Ford could rely on to buy a car from them without cross shopping are over. You will see this happen there as I see the signs of it starting already. When the lead selling model is imported and the largest company is from Japan it is just like what we saw here in the late 70’s.
Now you have a advantage as GM for us was on the decline and today GM is going the opposite direction with products. While you will have to share with everyone else you will get the best of GM there and a more diverse product line.
Production anymore is not a factor as GM plants are set to build a the same standard no matter where they are. Generally if you do not look a the sticker on the window you would have no idea where the car was built. Also GM is keeping an engineering staff in Australia to make sure the cars are tuned and modified to the market needs. You will not get the same car for the USA or China but one that was designed for your market needs.
Like I said I feel your pain as I see many of the things we had to deal with here but it will pass.
I hope GM has the good sense to continue the current program on Omega or Alpha with Chevy and Holden sharing the SS & Commodore; Buick getting a replacement Park Avenue.
I dread the idea of Holden selling Buicks when it just doesn’t fit the brand.
Letting the Commodore name be laid to rest is the right thing to do.
What is in store for Holden in terms of future product remains to be seen. I have yet to see signs that GM has turned the corner and become a company truly dedicated to delivering great product. Not to say they won’t but I think GM need to do something like FCA have done and show what they plan to do in terms of product over the next 5 years to hold and grow market share. Delivering products with a hasty piece meal approach is not the way forward.
There is so much that a new government in 2017 will have to do to right the ship that is the USA, one of those is to eliminate or at least rollback CAFE.
I wish you were correct but I do not see that coming unless we get lucky. The only ones to roll it back are some limited Republicans and even most of them anymore are supporting the present standard. The Democrats like Hillary have already voice that she would up the numbers if she could.
This is why we are seeing all the hail mary things in the half ton truck market.
That’s why we need more people to join the Tea Party! Yes, there are some wackos in the Tea Party, but by far the Tea Party is libertarian, and not overly concerned with abortion, etc. We want to roll back government and regulation on all levels, This includes the massive bureaucracy that is the EPA. IMO, rolling back CAFE standards will reduce the cost of new vehicles, which will help to clean up the environment by removing old vehicles with old smog technology.
We just need people that represent the people no matter the party. All the parties have their power hungry wacko’s.
The problem is the lobby parties with the money are too powerful and it has even turned some of the most conservative politicians.
It scares me that we are now seeing some conservatives speaking about global warming now. Yet only those protecting their profits and funding are the only ones supporting it.
RIP Commodore
I’m both saddened and plsed to see GM announcing the death of the Commodore nameplate.
I’m much happier to see it retired then to see it dragged through the forthcoming tragedy that will be ‘Holden’ after 2017.
Thanks for all the great memories and all the good times to come as we both grow old together ( yes, I’m keeping mine).
Thanks GM for not treating me like a complete fool.
I’m much more likely to consider a GM product in the future without the Commodore nameplate than I would be if they tried to pass of new cars as the ‘real deal’.
Let GM stand on their on 2 feet with their imported product and compete on a level playing field with the other imported brands. Time heals all wounds but I suspect this one is going to take a long, long time ?
I own a G8 GXP. To me, this is a very amazing car. The GTO made me aware of Holden, but the G8 made me fall in love. It is sad as an American fan of Holden so see what is happening. Since I lack the background and experience with the Commodore name I really don’t appreciate it as many do. I do, however, appreciate the spirit and ingenuity behind the name. I hope GM keeps the Holden engineering and design branch together. Let’s not forget they gave us the current Camaro in addition to the G8/SS. Let’s hope the spirit remains even if the name dies.