General Motors has just announced a complete about-face of its European market strategy related to the Chevrolet and Opel/Vauxhall brands.
Starting in 2016, the automaker’s Chevrolet brand will no longer have a mainstream presence in Western and Eastern Europe “due to a challenging business model and the difficult economic situation in Europe.” Instead, the fourth-largest global automotive brand will focus on offering “select iconic vehicles” such as the Corvette in Western and Eastern Europe. Chevrolet will, however, continue to have a broad presence in Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States.
The move, according to a GM news release, will “improve the Opel and Vauxhall brands and reduce the market complexity associated with having Opel and Chevrolet in Western and Eastern Europe.” Given that in Russia and the CIS the Opel and Chevrolet brands are “clearly defined and distinguished”, they are more competitive within their respective segments.
The change in business strategy marks a significant departure from the action plan from a year ago, when The General intended to turn Opel/Vauxhall into a slightly more premium mainstream brand and make Chevrolet the value brand in Europe. The news coincides with GM’s announcement to grow the Cadillac brand in Europe.
To Accelerate Progress
The General is characterizing the change as a way to “accelerate its progress in Europe by bolstering its brands in the mainstream” segment. The automaker also added that Chevrolet will work closely with its dealer network in Western and Eastern Europe “to define future steps while ensuring it can honor obligations to existing customers in the coming years.” One of these obligations is supplying parts and providing warranty work to existing Chevrolet owners — something that GM fully intends on carrying out and making available in the affected markets.
“Our customers can rest assured that we will continue to provide warranty, parts and services for their Chevrolet vehicles, and for vehicles purchased between now and the end of 2015,” said Thomas Sedran, president and managing director of Chevrolet Europe. “We want to thank our customers and dealers for their loyalty to the Chevrolet brand here in Europe.”
The newfound strategy as it relates to Chevrolet “will allow us to focus our investments where the opportunity for growth is greatest”, said General Motors CEO Dan Akerson.
Korean Production
Given that most of the Chevrolet product portfolio sold in Western and Eastern Europe is manufactured in South Korea, GM will increase its focus on “driving profitability, managing costs and maximizing sales opportunities in its Korean operations” as it looks “for new ways to improve business results in the fast-changing and highly competitive global business environment.”
“We will continue to become more competitive in Korea,” said GM Korea President and CEO Sergio Rocha. “In doing so, we will position ourselves for long-term competitiveness and sustainability in the best interests of our employees, customers and stakeholders, while remaining a significant contributor to GM’s global business.”
Special Accounting Charges
As a result of the decision to no longer offer Chevrolet vehicles in mainstream segments in Western and Eastern Europe, General Motors expects to record net special charges of $700 million to $1 billion primarily in the fourth quarter of 2013 and continuing through the first half of 2014.
The special charges consist of asset impairments, dealer restructuring, sales incentives and severance-related costs that will “pave the way for continued improvement in GM’s European operations through the further strengthening of the Opel and Vauxhall brands”. Approximately $300 million of these net special charges will be non-cash expenses.
Additionally, GM “expects to incur restructuring costs related to these actions that will not be treated as special charges, but will impact GM International Operations earnings in 2014.”
Comments
I am glad they pulled the plug. The whole Chevy Europe strategy was a disaster.
I wonder what they do with the Manchester United sponsorship. That’s over 70 million USD per year thru the 2020-2021 season? Can they switch the sponsorship to Vauxhaul?
Here’s a story about this absurd deal from 2012:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-uniteds-chevrolet-sponsorship-is-worth-1215088
Wow, talk about a roller coaster ride regarding Europe, decisions change daily. How will this impact Chevrolet’s image globally. I am shocked GM doesn’t have a stronger case for the Chevrolet brand in Europe, is throwing in the towel really the answere.
Overall good move, leave the field to Opel, add Chevy in niches where Opel is not present. Pretty much Buick/Opel approach in China.
@ Dan: ManU may have been desperate attempt to turn around Chevy’s fortune in Europe, but I don’t think so, the deal still gives them lots of exposure, notably in Asia. Vauxhall is sponsoring national squads of the different nations across the UK.
It would make a lot more sense to switch the sponsorship to Caddy. Much better fit and would provide some exposure as they launch world class products.
Well it took long enough for GM to see sense but at least they got there in the end. Next on the list: Dear Manchester United please can we have a refund!
This makes more sense, but GM still wasted billions and wasted time on this. which is ultimately on Akerson. Once they decided to keep Opel/Vauxhall (which was a long process itself), there was no room for Chevy in Europe. Yet Akerson & co kept slamming away for a couple of years with a strategy that couldn’t be explained without a flow chart.
Rob I think you would need more than a flow chart to explain that level of stupidity!! lol
GM made a bad decision again but is someone surprised any more? Nope. And VW can handle three mainstream brands, Volkswagen, Skoda and Seat. We’ll probably see more Chevrolets with Opel/Vauxhall badges, like Mokka, Antara and Ampera now.
This strikes me as rather a ham-fisted solution to a problem, if it really was a problem. GM surveys claim that few people in Europe had both Chevrolet and Opel on their shopping list. This suggests that Chevrolet market share, however small, will go to competitors rather than Opel.
What appears to be the problem is that Rick Wagoner had a vision of Chevrolet as a global brand, but then he was old GM. So also was Alfred Sloan who encouraged sibling rivalry amongst GM brands. But that era ended when Divisional Managers who were close to the top of GM were ultimately replaced by brand managers or VLEs. Who for instance is in charge of Buick at the moment? Whoever these people are, they are not high enough up the ladder to take a stand which might jeopardise their career.
If other manufacturers can market multiple brands, why can’t GM? Opel and Vauxhall have long histories which is significant to many Europeans. But then there are others who simply shop around for something that is cost effective and appealing, without any brand preconceptions. Why take Chevrolet away from this potential market.
It is understandable that Chevrolet is a puzzle to Europeans. It used to be large and American, now it is small and Korean. But it was successfully launched under Hardy Spranger and did contribute to Daewoo (now Chevrolet) finally becomming a successful Asian operation for GM along with China. Like it or not, Chinese imports will commence at some point and the Chevrolet infrastructure could have come in handy. Rather than fear this Chinese invasion, it would have allowed GM to influence the process.
Let’s see what happens to Opel/Vauxhall in the next decade or two, hopefully things get better.
Let’s also hope that Cadillac doesn’t meet the same fate as Chevy.
I guess the Europeans got what they wanted! Now what will be your excuse for not buying a Buick or Cadillac?
I dunno. You seemed to have all the answers back in August.
“Gm is saying good by to opel in Australia Germany England might be next”
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/08/july-2013-opel-sales-up-11-percent-chevrolet-up-33-percent-in-germany/
I was completely surprised by this decision. I did not all all expect such a drastic, radical solution to GM’s problem on the European market.
Though – when I think about it.. Before was the decision to end the marketing of Opel cars by the end of this year (which is the end of this month). I heard some people say that this was a decision of the new Opel CEO K.T.Neumann (KTN for short). This is mirrored by withdrawing the Korean Chevrolets from the market in Western and Eastern Europe, except the former USSR.
Introducing the Chevrolet brand in Europe by simply renaming the Daewo cars and dealers was a shot in GM’s own foot. Apparently some managers in Detroit had really the idea that they could get rid of those pesky Germans at Opel having their own ideas, but finally woke up from their pipe dream when the decision was taken to sell a majority stake in Opel to a consortium of parts maker Magna, a Russian bank and a Russian automobile manufacturer, but when push came to shove and they found out that the Opel development center was a central part of all technical development and research within GM, invaluable and irreplaceable, Detroit withdrew from the sale.
Maybe GM might be better off by continuing and deepening the badge engineering between Opel and Chevrolet with a clear distribution of those two brands (plus Vauxhall and Holden) across countries and continents, and keep Daewoo as a real bargain basement brand like Renault has Dacia, instead of trying to push Opel in a semi-luxury brand like Buick.
I read somewhere (but can’t find it in the official press release on the matter) that the Chevrolet advertisement contract with Manchester United would continue since ManU was said to have a large following in other countries where Chevrolet will still be marketed after January 1st, 2016
@LuisF:
Why then did GM not keep the Daewoo brand and dealer network as what it was: a bargain basement cheapo brand just like Dacia is to Renault, instead of the futile attempt to replace the existing Opel/Vauxhall brands by giving Daewoo another name, and then departing from the bargain basement offer into more expensive segments, with the inevitable consequence of losing market share to Dacia and others.
,
I could boast, but I could see this decision coming from last week. A pity some of you didn’t.
This is good for GM; no more needless overlap and their full attention devoted to Opel. They already have a greater percentage of the European market with Opel than they ever could have ever had with Chevrolet.
Cadillac, as we know, is another matter that’ll get addressed in the future.
Its not a good idea to retire from Europe, there is the next Cruze, Sonic/Aveo coming and with a good marketing strategy GM could reverse the tendency and make Chevy attractive in a hand. In other hand GM should make Opel as Buick, more premium. For Cadillac it needs diesel engine to success in Europe.
These moves could spell the end of manufacturing in Australia. I say this because the extra capacity in Korea will probably be sent to Australia; thus, no need to make Commodores in Australia.
GM Korea assembles a version of the Lacrosse in Korea; so I can see a Commodore replacement being assembled there to cut costs and maximize output.
I am not shocked here but I am interested in the product mix we will see now. Will Opel and Vauxhall be a mix of their own product with selected rebadged Chevys for lower priced segments. Will they still sell the Camaro and Corvette as Chevys in Opel or Cadillac dealers? This will be interesting to see what they do.
Also note there is rumors going around Holden will be closed in 2016. If true will that mean they will just be rebadged Chevys as Holdens? Will they just make them all Chevys? Is it even true.
While not something you would expect they have already announced the Holden Commodore will be gone in 2016 and the rest of the line is already Chevy. Also there is word the RWD sedan will come to North America for production to replace the SS and could be exported.
A lot to speculate on and contemplate here. It will be interesting to see what they end up doing.
While some say GM is dumb for having done this at least now they are willing to make change to areas in need. In the past the old GM would just have kept pumping in more money to programs with little hope of success. Also if they did change it would have taken decades to change vs. a few years.
If running an auto company was so easy we all would not be on the web doing it. If you do not fail at some point it only means you are not doing anything. Even Edison failed more than he succeeded.
This more of a indictment on the people of Europe then it is of GM, those pathetic morons wouldn’t buy a chevy no matter how much GM improved those cars over the years!
Being thick headed and stubborn got the people of Europe what they wanted, protecting opel even if both brands come from the same company!
So don’t blame GM for this failure, the blame goes on the people who wouldn’t give chevy a chance no matter how hard GM tried or changed the car!
I don’t understand why people still want to bag on Europeans for not wanting to buy Chevy. Dude, it’s a crowded market, people here in the US still give GM crap about its bankruptcy, why don’t you start insulting them for a change, huh? Leave them alone, with the exception of the corvette and camaro, there is nothing exciting about chevy’s lineup in Europe, they don’t have the opportunity to buy a $40000 impala, or a $50000 silverado, they’re not as spoiled as we are here.
GM has pumped money to non-profitable Opel for about fifteen years. Moving Opel upmarket didn’t work out. What will happen next if Opel doesn’t turn to profitability in a few years? I can’t see it happen and GM can’t wait forever.
Moving Opel upmarket was only attempted when Chevrolet was launched; no wonder it didn’t work.
With Chevy out of the picture for good, Opel can move back to the mainstream, as they have been for over 100 years.
@scott:
There is nothing available as “selected rebadged Chevys for lower priced segments”.
Methinks that by giving Daewoo a new name and trying to move that brand up-market, GM had spoiled their chance of having a bargain basement budget brand which could compete with Dacia etc. Under the name Chevrolet with an improved line-up, that Korean made cars could not gain a significant market share in Europe, on the contrary. My analysis is that the long standing Daewoo customers went over to other brands in that price range instead of following the upgrade to more expensive cars. Think about the absurdity to offer a Chevrolet Malibu (Korean made) for a significantly higher price than the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia on the same platform Epsilon II (developed by Opel in Rüsselsheim).
GM’s decision to draw the bitter consequences of the (forseeable) failure of pushing Chevrolet on the side or even against Opel/Vauxhall is especially bitter for the traditional Daewoo dealers, who are losing anyway because of the slide in sales numbers, are now threatened by losing the official releationship with an automobile maker.
Maybe GM could fill the gap which it created by renaming and upscaling Daewoo by starting the import of Chinese cars under the Wuling brand, which is produced by SGMW, a joint venture of the Chinese SAIC with Wuling and General Motors. Maybe some of these cars could also be produced at the Daewoo factories in South Korea.
I also think that other US-Chevrolets besides the Camaro and Corvette could be offered, and under the original brand name. Why not asking the Opel/Vauxhall dealers to offer those cars plus Cadillac in their show rooms?
@gm1652 “VW can handle three mainstream brands, Volkswagen, Skoda and Seat
The difference is that VW bought (or took control of) the companies SEAT in Spain and Skoda in the Chech Republic, which both had an established market presence on their own all over Europe. This is a similar situation as the founding of General Motors in the USA by merging a number of different automakers and keeping their brands.
The situation with Chevrolet in Europe is completely different. GM gave the Korean Daewoo brand, which did have a market presence, another name, and then tried to change this renamed Daewoo from the bargain basement budget segment to mainstream. And failed by losing the Daewoo customers to others while not winning in the segment they wanted to enter in.
Introducing a completely new brand, and in an awkward way, is not the same as not making disappear the marques of established market players which had been acquired by a stronger company.
You really can not blame the customers here. They are what they are and you have to meet their needs and wants.
Most are nationalized and take pride in the product from their home markets. We could use a little more of that here.
I can blame you and I will! When you elect to buy one car and not the other(chevy vs opel) even when both cars come from the same company and have similar designs platform’s and engine’s and you still won’t give the Chevy brand a chance no matter how great the car is! That puts all the blame on your shoulders!
Your people as a group let the Chevy experiment fail cuz you didn’t want to see your precious opel over taken by chevy like other places in this world have!
Don’t tell me GM didn’t give them good cars to buy, if that’s the case them why do those same cars sell like hot cakes around the world and are seem as good solid cars!
The spark, sonic, malibu, impala, are cars that would fit in just fine in Europe! But the people of Europe can’t get their heads around the fact that the cars that they would rather buy (opels) have the same dna!
This is why I have little to no respect for you people you are turning your backs on a brand within the company!
If this was a chevy vs Ford and people choose Ford in Europe over chevy that would be fine!
Now that chevy is gone from Europe, will these same people choose to not buy Buick or Cadillac?
Just for your info I love and support all of GM’S cars and trucks!
You still haven’t figured it out, have you ritter?
While an Opel Insignia and a Chevrolet Malibu may have the same platform and come from the same company, both of the brands have DIFFERENT PUBLIC IMAGES. The stronger and better received brand remains.
It’s that’s simple. Stop “Being thick headed and stubborn”.
@Brian
“you still won’t give the Chevy brand a chance no matter how great the car is!”
The problem is that Chevys aren’t great cars!!! They are crappy, ugly and have bad quality which newest ADAC quality report proves!
I took seat in nearly all Chevys at Francfort Motorshow this year and I was shocked how crappy the interior of some of these cars are (much mor crappier than I have expected) especially Spark, Aveo and even the new Trax.
Then I went to Kia and what I found was very fine material, new technology, a modern and sporty design and all of this for a good price. Chevys are not competitive to Kia or Hyundai and even not to Dacia.
If I had the choice I would prefer a Kia ten thousand times more than any current Chevy.
Yeah about the quality issue and the spark being a crappy car, yeah you’re full of crap. Because either you guys lie, build them specifically crappy in factories so they don’t sell, or you guys are on pain killers. In terms of sales, the spark is second only to the fiat 500, a car that’s well established and has better marketing. Plus the spark isn’t even that far behind, the 500 only sells 1000 units more give/take. Plus on top of that, nobody gives GM any crap about reliability anymore here in the states, so how are you guys bitching about quality when we get similar products as you guys do?
It’s a good move. Focus on Corvette, and certain Cadillac models. Export only the best.
I’m really surprised that GM moved with elasticity. A few years ago, the company would not have ceded any ground while stitching a bleeding wound, and leaving the battlefield. Kudos.
It’s going to be decades before Europe will be viable, for expanding in their market place. They are still in a circular firing squad, destroying fellow state economies.
Like it or not the exploding economies, of the far east, will be where the focus should be, and GM is in a strong position there. I do hope, that the General will keep Holden alive in Australia. In the coming years, Australia will become ever more important. Plus… their women are beautiful. I know, because I fell in lust with a go go dancer there, while on an R&R, in 1969.
@Hafeez_h
Believe it or not but Europeans have another taste and give the quality feeling another priority than Americans does.
And again: The Chevys offered in Europe and those offered in US aren’t exactly the same.
After this decision if I was GM I would not only offer Camarao and Corvette by 2016 but also the new Impala (an amazing car in my opinion) and some of the smaller American SUVs. So Chevy could stay here as a niche brand but with upmarket American looking products comparable to what GM seems to plan with Cadillac in Europe.
The German can you explain more as to how europe’s tastes differ from that of those here in America.
@ The German, why bother offering the Impala, GM can cover this by offering a new Omega if they so wish
@V8 Jon
No, simple badge engineering doesn’t work! It destroys a brand’s identity and history shows that people don’t buy these cars! (Opel Sintra, Opel GT, Opel Antara, Opel Frontera,…)
No, no not badge engineering I was referring to a new Omega of our own this would make sense because although the D segment is declining Insignia sales are up, so a E segment car (new Omega) to fit above it would certainly sell better because of it IMO.
@V8 Jon
Ok, sry! Yes you are right! I also think that it would make more sense to offer a new Omega (in collaboration with Buick). I am sure such a car could sell better than all aimed sales for Cadillac without the need of building up a new dealership or marketing for another brand. But Karl Thomas Neumann said recently that he doesn’t want to see a car above the Insignia at the moment because the brand hasn’t the right image yet.
There are rumors that there will be more variants of the next Insignia including a huge station wagon comparable to the last Omega Caravan. Perhaps this is a good compromise.
What I really would like to see (rather than an Omega sucessor) is a classical midsize coupé comparable to Audi A5.
Now it sounds like GM Korea will be making cars for Holden with the excess capicity from shutting Chevy Europe. Holden will shut-down its manufacturing. I understand Australia’s new government wants to cut the auto subsidies. In addition, Australia signed a free-trade agreement with Korea yesterday.
I like how this all falls into place. I just hope GM keeps R&D in Australia. They did a heck of job on the Commodore and I have not been a fan of the GM Korea designs. I believe the Commodore is the number one selling car in Australia, so it would makes sense to keep the Australian DNA. The new CHevy SS is based on the Commodore and is just arriving in dealers in the US. I urge people to check it out. Amazing car.
Here’s a link to the free trade agreement:
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/australia-seals-fta-with-south-korea/story-e6frfku9-1226776077019
When you listen to people talk about how bad chevy cars are in Europe and then look at how well they sell at other places around the world something doesn’t add up!
What Makes since to me is that there is a effort by the locals in those areas to keep chevy from becoming mainstream!
It has nothing to do with the quality of the cars if it was about quality or price then those same cars would be sitting on dealer lots collecting dust all around the world! But as we all know that is simply not the case!
I can call bs because there’s evidence to back it up
@haefez_h about “In terms of sales, the spark is second only to the fiat 500, a car that’s well established and has better marketing. Plus the spark isn’t even that far behind, the 500 only sells 1000 units more give/take.”
Check your facts! We are talking about Europe here! Look at new car registrations in Germany, the small car segment in January to November 2013:
VW UP 39’121
FIAT 500 26’461
SMART FORTWO 24’687
RENAULT TWINGO 17’928
HYUNDAI I 10 14’884
SKODA CITIGO 12’790
SEAT MII 10’580
FIAT PANDA 8’808
TOYOTA AYGO 8’320
FORD KA 8’053
CHEVROLET SPARK 4’775
CITROEN C1 4’577
SUZUKI SPLASH 2’758
PEUGEOT 107 2’054
OPEL AGILA 1’542
SUZUKI ALTO 1’208
TOYOTA IQ 704
NISSAN PIXO 428
LANCIA YPSILON 484
CITROEN C-ZERO 276
MITSUBISHI I-MIEV 89
PEUGEOT ION 41
Other 6
There you find the Chevrolet Spark on 11th position.
You can now evaluate the little arithmetic exercise of calculating the difference in numbers of Fiat 500 and Chevrolet Spark, and then calculate the difference of that number from the 1000 which you claimed. Then please tell us your results!
He was trying to point out that those cars are not as bad as you say so, and he was referring to the global sales numbers!
So again I have to point out small minded people thinking about their problems closest to them!
The spark sonic and cruze sell very well around the world
Brian here is the deal while it is a global market all markets are not the same. Europe has segments that love America and American things but for the most part they are nationalistic.
Lets face it most French cars suck as do many Italian cars but yet these countries buy them in great numbers and they fail here in America. The fact is they love their own products warts and all.
It is true Chevy is not a bad car but it is not seen as a Euro car unlike Opel. You can build a better car and send it to Europe but that guarantees no success.
It is not that they are dumb or clueless they just have and show a little more pride toward their own products. This is why Cadillac will sell ok but do not expect them to beat BMW or Benz in their home markets.
Ford is accepted as they have had a presents in Europe since well before WWII and are seen as a home player. GM has been a player through Holden and Vauxhall so they have a better clue now that the established names may have a better chance of showing a profit.
GM has brought in people who are from Europe and who are part of the culture.
There is a hell of a lot more to selling cars than just designing and engineering them. You have to really know and understand what markets will take and reject. Cultural and nationalistic thinking has always been part of some markets and you are not going to change it so you had better learn to adapt. That is what GM is doing. It is all about making money and this will prove to be a faster way to better profits. Also with the support of China the market share in Europe is not as important as it once was. GM holds a large stake in the east and the tables are turned here.
The Small Thinking people at times are those who have no clue what is really in play here. Auto companies are business and you still have to run them like a business.
As for nationalism in America used to be that way but today so many people could care less. This is why so many of the Asian car companies are strong here. The American companies lost the trust of many and they never came back. We could use a little more nationalism here in this country and it would really help the economy. Today the quality issues are no longer at fault of even a legitimate excuse to buy non American anymore. The people in this country should at least give American cars a chance again but it is a matter of earning their trust and that will take time with the new product as no one give you a good rep you have to earn it.
Scott you have eloquently summed up this issue showing an understanding that is not obvious in many of the other posts. Whether or not you like the Chevrolet decision for Europe a far bigger challenge awaits GM regarding Holden. Replacing the Holden name with Chevrolet would be suicidal.
I agree it’s very well put, but it still leaves q’s that have not been answered!
If the chevys offered in Europe were built there would the people of Europe buy them?
If this answer is still no then his explanation makes zero sense!
You Either have bad cars that don’t sell well or you have people that will only buy local made products!
It’s not the cars cuz other people around the world have proven that they are really good cars that sell very well, and it’s not just cars made locally cuz I’ve been told that even if chevys were made locally they still would not buy them!
So what gives!
Explain the real reason!
It wouldn’t matter where they were built, it was never the problem. It was public image; I believe we’ve already said that.
When Europeans think of Chevrolet, they didn’t think of affordable, well built, economical cars. They thought of the Corvette, the Camaro, and poorly built large barges from the 60’s; in addition to unreliable American junk from the 70’s to the 90s’. Add to that list, the Daewoo disaster.
Here’s what you should be thinking:
“You either have bad public image from a new brand, or you have a favourable public image from a local brand!”
PUBLIC IMAGE is the deciding factor, not people collectively deciding to not buy form Chevrolet.
You’re trying hard to make this sound like a conspiracy against GM, and it’s not working in your favour.
I know you don’t want to let go of your vision of a global Chevrolet, but it’s not going to happen. You should really be thinking of a global GM, even if you disagree with the idea of GM not being American-centric.
This is why I expect the Holden name to remain but they will keep with the Chevy line of cars.
Also there have been many hints at a 4 door RWD sedan that may be built here. GM has said there already was a replacement for the Chevy SS and it would be ready in 2016. The rumors of Holden cutting the Commodore is 2016. I just read a review of the SS and they hinted that if Chevy wanted more cars and a standard shift production would need to move to North America.
Chevy could easily export them as Holden’s going south as they only sell a little over 30K units and the exchange rate in more favorable. Also the engines and trannys are already here so shipping them down there once would also save money.
I would also note the Camaro is do around the same time also and could share a line with the SS. Moving it here would also open the door to v6 models too.
I also see Holden getting the Impala too.
As for Europe I have read many people in the auto industry that have done well on both sides of the Atlantic and they all have said what I laid out. You have to understand the nature of the market over there and sell the cars the way they want them sold. In Germany technology rules and they sell cars accordingly. Here in the states they could just say Buy a Porsche and get laid and Americans would buy it. This would never work in Germany.
It is similar to the racing taste. Here we like Nascar and other series that pass more than once a race but in Europe they love F1 for the Strategy and technology. There is nothing wrong with either but you must match the correct market to the correct strategy and taste.
The key here is GM did not take 20 years to change the path they were on. In the past they would have just forced this issue till they just could not afford it any longer
Brian it is very simple in many parts of Europe if a Chevy was built there it would still be seen as an American car just as many here see a Honda built in Ohio as Japanese.
Germany, France, England, Spain and Italy they are all more focused on the traditional Euro name plates even though the Germans own most of them.
In Russia, many of the old Iron Curtain countries and even in the Scandinavian countries they are more open to American cars. In the old Iron Curtain countries they first want 4 wheels and then they like to own American cars. My firm sends many a auto part to these countries as there are many GM and Ford on hand. They feel no loyalty to a national brand when most were just really bad Fiat copies or a rip off of a old Packard.
What give Brian is you are thinking like an American. If you were German you would feel that your countries products are the best so why would I want a car from an American company? My countries products are far more superior than anyone else’s. Same goes for the Italians and other. To be fair the British always knew their cars were crap but they know they were theirs and that is all they needed to know. Even now with the German, and Indian owned British names they still think of them as their own since they are either built there or mostly built there.
Brian you have to understand the culture as it is not America and they think differently. In many ways they think we are strange as we will buy all the Asian cars here and show no pride in what we do have. If we do not treasure them why should they?
The long and short of it is perception nationalism and pride not where the car is built. Americans think of cars differently and only want them not to break down and be affordable and could care less where they were built or the origin of the company that built them.
Understand the people in Europe and cater to their whims and you will sell cars. Cadillac is showing that they understand this by bringing the German from BMW in. This will be key to their success in Europe as he will know how t market a CTS properly vs. the past where some idiot though a redone Saab could pass for a Cadillac that would sell there. This is also why Cadillac’s will see a lot of the DOHC V6 and TT turbo cars. This is what they like there and if it is fast Americans will buy it no matter what is under the hood.
@Scott living here in Southern California it always just breaks my heart that Americans have no loyalty to products of their own country. I see white people whose grandparents would drive old Cadillacs and Chevys call themselves American and yet they don’t own a single American made product in their home. I’m neighbors with a family of Germans that migrated some time after WW 2 and still feel the need to purchase a VW despite the fact that VW’s are regarded as some of the worst cars sold in America and the fact that there are many other alternatives.
My point is, there is no reason to hate Europeans who are loyal to their country’s own products no matter how bad or good they are, we should hate ourselves for not being as loyal as they are. I should also applaud the GM and Opel executives for understanding this important lesson in Europe.
To make something clear:
It is not only notionalism! Europeans also love Kia/Hyundai or Toyota.
Here in Germany people also love Skodas for example.
The problem is that Chevys can’t compete with them. One reason for that is perhaps that the current lineup is very old, another is that Chevy does not fulfill European requirements when it comes to quality feeling (especially in the interior) where Chevy uses a lot of hard, simple and cheap plastic (Eurpeans don’t like that).
If you want you can compare pictures of Spark interior and interior of the new Hyundai i10 or Kia Picanto. There is simply a difference between them. Another issue: Skoda, Kia/Hyundais are designed in and for Europe, Chevys are (for the most part) not.
Another thing is that Chevy cars have the wrong badge. If Euopenas think of Chevy they think of Camaro, Corvette, Impala and all the other American cars but not Korean or asian looking cars like Spark. Like Observer still mentioned, GM would better offered the cars under a Korean brand. The switch from Daewoo to Chevy has also destroyed brand identity.
@Brian: you say Chevy is so successfull worldwide! is that really true? Only by numbers! But Volkswagen or Toyota sell a lot of more cars although these cars are (outside of US) more expensive. Chevy sells OK because the cars are very cheap which works in Soth America, Africa and some parts of Asia. But the margins are very low. That’s the reason why GM’s earnings are much lower than those of VW group for example. To make an entry-level lineup a global brand may work in the short run but not in the long run if you want to earn more money than your competitors. You see first signs of that bad strategy: Europe is lost for Chevy, in Russia, Chevy looses market share, In Australia where Holden uses Chevy cars there is a lot of trouble. These are markets where people prefer good quality, cheap price isn’t everything.
The Akerson Era of GM continues…when will it end?
Well some imports do well in Europe but for the most part they are now where near 50% or more of the market as they are here. A lot has to do with cost as once you get the lower priced cars the Euro cars are not always the best.
As for names well that does not work either as they already have sold Camaro and Corvette over there with limited results. There were more than one factor in play but even the names did not bring much in the way of sales.
The Chevy line may be aging but even new they did not perform. At the time they had similar interiors as other similar priced cars and still did not catch on. Winning races did not work either. But even back in the day there has always been limited love for American cars. They were always expensive and big and that did not fit the needs over there after the war. Today Europe is a difficult market. Opel is struggling as is Fiat and nearly every French firm. The Scadinavians in Saab and Volvo are now Chinese and the British brands are all German or Indian owned since their issues.
The main companies that have come through some what untouched have been Benz, BMW and VW. Even then they have not been with out their worries. Just look at how many of the companies over there have been sold or government supported. This is not an easy market to gain market share in and it will only get more difficult.
The only real growth is in the old Iron Curtain counties as they are still growing in income and more people are able to afford cars. Just look at the Dash Cams from Russia and see how many Ford and Chevys along with anything else on 4 wheels are on the road. They are car hungry.
Chevy rules in some places and in other not. Much of their numbers for years were just because of the great number of trucks they move. Look at VW numbers and then understand they do not sell trucks well very few with the vans and the one pick up. Even Toyota that sells trucks but still do not sell the same numbers. With Chevy you can take over 2 million vehicles out just with pick ups and SUV’s.
One may look to Japan as they so have laws that make importing difficult but even then they tend to stay with home brand products. The only ones who go for imports are normally the high end buyers who are going for status.
I have this nagging feeling thst GM wants one mass market line up, even if it is sold under different names in different markets. This is like One Ford, under the lines of Opel, Chevy, Vauxhall, Holden. Chevy may end up looking a lot like Saturn in the US and China because there is no economic case for two mass market line ups.
Now I more fully understand why they spoke of Opel+ Buick as a hyper brand that would rely on platforms tweeted for each brand. This continues the tradition of selling fluffed up Chevy cars as Buick much like Toyota and Honda do.
Killing Chevy in current form its good; however, they should have been selling rebadged Boaguns (sp?) as Chevy in Europe.
@Brian asking on December 6 at 08:15 PM
“If the chevys offered in Europe were built there would the people of Europe buy them?”
That would depend on how that would come about.
Before answering that question, let me recapitulate that GM introduced the Chevrolet marque as just another name for a bargain basement cheapo Korean import brand, thus branding Chevrolet as just another of those Korean brands who enter the market with cheap products, after the Japanese companies, especially Toyota, moved to the quality & reliability department. It is not at all easy to get rid of this image of a bargain basement cheapo product.
And then GM made its Korean joint venture GM Daewoo & Automobile Technology produce better cars, mainly developed by the Opel development center (Delta II platform for Cruze and Orlando, Epsilon II platform for Malibu), pushing prices up, and thus giving up on the customer base of their dealer network.
The other Korean import brand, Hyundai, has a factory in Slovakia, but I think that this European production base is not really noted by the general public very much. Hyundai is still perceived as a Korean import. Their success (and of their subsidiary Kia) is mainly due to them offering this 7-year guarantee and to offer automobiles of good quality and good design — please not that the European development and design center is located at Rüsselsheim, the city where Opel was founded and where the Opel headquarter and development center is located.
But, if GM had made Opel sell its Bochum factory to its Korean joint venture GM Korea, to produce Korean Chevrolets there instead of Opels and Vauxhalls, and thus not throwing thousands of workers into poverty, such a political bomb would have changed the Chevrolet brand image drastically and would have helped to avoid the downward slide in sales numbers. Methinks.
The importance of a brand or marque is in its image, in its perception. K.T.Neumann, the new Opel CEO, said about the Opel image something like “we build great cars, but the public doesnt believe us”. That is, many people do not check out the actual cars, but shun the brand because their perception of the brand makes them shrug about their products.
@stephen marcus writing on December 7, 2013 at 11:24 am
a) not only Buick’s cars are underpinned by Opel-developed platforms, but Chevrolets too: Cruze and Orlando on the Delta II, and Malibu on the Epsilon II. Then designed in Korea ..
b) you mean Baojun, the passenger car brand of the SGMW joint venture of the Chinese companies SAIC and Wuling with GM. I think it would be better to offer the Baojun brand as a Chinese import brand to those Chevrolet dealers in Europe which are not mainly Opel/Vauxhall dealers (about half of the 1900). No badge engineering, but real Chinese import. The Chinese are coming anyway. If you can’t beat them, join them…
Trying to make Chevy into the mainstream brand, where Opel was the mainstream brand, wouldn’t work in the first place. Why? You might ask, it is because for one Opel has always been the main stream, you can’t create a niche out of a mainstream brand, that’s like trying to make the iPod a niche when it is the social norm. The other reason is Europe is in the middle of a Race to the Bottom right now. In Europe there has only been 2 major movers when it comes to the mainstream market VW and Fiat (you could throw in Renault because of the partnership with Nissan but Nissan is the larger of the two really). But with Renault growing more with their lucrative partnership with Nissan and Opel/Vauxhall becoming more competitive with other marques in terms of performance and even craftsmanship. Even Kia and Hyundai are becoming more prominent in both the European market and the North American market. Fiat has always been good in this market with their mass market cars, VW has tried to move upstream and overcharges for their cars, but with Volkswagen being their main brand, price drops are possible, because of the lower priced options from Opel, Ford, Fiat, Kia/Hyundai will be more favorable to the consumer. The last issue, which I don’t think is as much as an issue as it is being put up to be, is the Chevy brand itself. Chevy before 2007 in Europe was like Kia and Hyundai, they were nothing more then rubbish Daewoos, even Kia and Hyundai had struggled in the market because of the quality of their cars, as we have seen however, Kia/Hyundai have officially re-branded themselves and shown that they can compete in the market. Chevy did the same, their newer models are far superior, but this relates back to what I said about Chevy trying to become the mainstream brand. Opel was already in a position in the market, where Chevy was not needed. Both cars are largely the same in design, efficiency and power. I don’t think stubbornness has anything to do with it, if you want to blacklist a car brand, do what Lancia did with the Beta.
Like many have said before me; bout time and good riddance. Chevrolet in Europe has no business selling anything other the traditional all American nameplates such as Corvette, Camaro, or maybe even limited imports of Full size trucks and or the Impala.
Chevrolet’s only appeal in western Europe [if there ever was any in the first place], was to “yankeephiles”. Opel, and Vauxhal pretty much had Chevy’s “everyman” niche covered for GM.
Now Chevy in Asia is another much more successful matter altogether.
Well this was a good idea on paper but when it comes to adding people to the mix it just did not work.
It was like Bringing Opel here as a import in the 60’s and 70’s and expecting people here to love them when they really did not ever take to them. The GT and others were neat cars but it was not anything the American liked and they were slowly phased out.
The real question is how will this affect the Buick relationship. Will they still fully share models or will they pair them with a few rebranded rebranded Chevy models as Opels to fill out the line up for more volume?
My take is they will not worry too much about the entry level class and keep with the Opel/ Buick program. They may not claim more market share but they may be able to make more money with a shared Buick relationship and a little more expensive model over the entry level cars.
All this info about Europe just confirms that they are secondary class people, heartless, underachievers that never should be taken seriously on a global level, the true armpit of the world!
The European area has 4 to 5 times the history then north America, and we are still more important than you, more powerful, more influential, the us will be here long after your collection of pathetic countries that make up Europe burns to the ground!
Be careful when you ask for your independence cuz we might not take care of you in the future
Can we get this racist out of here?
By what regard? First of all, do you know what a Race to the Bottom means? Probably not, so allow me to educate you. It means that the market has an over-saturation with cars at a higher price, so auto companies are creating a new market with cars that are reasonably priced but just as capable. Look up the SEAT Leon or the Dacia Sandero, just as capable as their VW or Renault counterparts, but for a lower price. The same thing is happening in North America in the tablet market, you wonder why the Nexus 7 sells for 229 in comparison to 330 for an iPad Mini 2? Race to the bottom for pricing, its the exact same thing. The other thing is this whole racist world view you have to Europe, I mean really? Europe has contributed just as much to the world as America and Asia, both good and bad, Asia Europe and the Americas have had a profound effect on the world. Maybe if you went to a place called a library and read a book, you might be able to see that. It is much to my surprise that you even know how to use your computer and literate enough to type on these forums. Better yet, I’m surprised that you even have a computer, because I’ll tell you a secret there buddy, your mother board is probably made in Taiwan, the RAM probably made in Malaysia and your HDD from Korea. Hmm, those don’t sound like their American, you know why? GLOBALIZATION. Everything made in this day and age has a different home from a different part of the world. So keep that in mind when you say something so arrogant about other people.
Its a very stupid decision and it even will not help Opel either , because people that bought a Chevrolet will turn there back on GM vehicles in the future. Chevrolet is a world brand with a much bigger name appeal than Opel . Lots of Europeans like myself don’t like the name Opel its to German .
If time comes to send my Chevrolet Cruze to the scrapyard , I will never buy an GM vehicle again I rather buy an Lada than drive an Opel.
Interesting premise, might I ask, as you are European, how would you feel about an expansion of Vauxhall into Continental Europe? I mean there are alot of German auto companies on the market right now, in Europe that is. What would bringing in a new company name do for the market. I have always thought shutting down Buick, in North America, and replacing it with Opel and Vauxhall would do a world of good for the branding, because the Vauxhall brand could sell the sporty and affordable hatchbacks (Adam Corsa and Astra) while Opel sells the higher end entry level luxury cars (Verano as a Opel, Insignia and Buicks SUVs turned Opel). Alternatively GM could do with Opel/Vauxhall, what VW did with SEAT and VW, even bring Chevy in to be synonymous with that of Skoda. All hypothetical of course, but seeing as I do not have a first hand experience in Europe, I would find it interesting to see your point on the issue.
Vauxhall and opel are almost identicle. It world make more sense to rebrand vauxhall as opel. Might save millions and it’s no secret in england that vauxhalls are opels.
I do wonder whether offering the smaller German designed buicks as opels thru buick dealers makes sense. It might better apeal to younger buyers. I think at a minimum GM should settle on a single global styling for buick and opel.
@Tyler:
Selling the same cars with a Vauxhall badge outside the UKoGBaNI would not signify a “new company”, but just a funny variant of the Opel cars. In the Republic of Ireland (the 26 counties) this could even be seen as an offense (I would like to know how many Opels are grey imported from the 26-country republic to the 6 counties under British rule).
GM has elminated the the Vauxhall brand even from all former British colonies, and restricted it to the country UKoGBaNI, where it is widely perceived as a British home made product.
Observer7, I can confirm the opposite is true, there are more grey import Vauxhalls ibto Southern Ireland than Opel grey imports to the North but this has been the case for many years now and is mainly due to the higher taxation in the South. Opel was retained over Vauxhall as the main brand for the South in the early 80s because of anti British sentiment at the time. Intoducing the brand back to the South now would be less of an issue.
Racist no! Sorry! But I have been to a library and one of those books told me that the USA just happens to be a super power in this world! Are you?
Maybe you were but now your not! Europe has major influence on the world, there is only two things Europe is known for visiting on vacation and making war!
The first ones not to bad the second you suck at!
As for my computer, I know where it comes from and I’m ok with that. What bothers me about you people in Europe you can see the fact that opel Vauxhall chevy Buick cadillac are all on the same team! But you still choose to not let chevys buicks cadillac into your world!
That’s why I don’t find the people of Europe none to bright!
So I still have not found anyone to answer the question of will the people who are opel and Vauxhall fans buy a Buick or Cadillac?
This the same thing, i tried to explain to these brain dead prople the Chevy name is a global brand that brings in more money and notoriety then opel or Vauxhall could ever have! Adding sells to the Chevy brand is far more important than helping opel or Vauxhall!
Opel will never be a global brand or leader!
They can’t even lead on their home turf!
“So I still have not found anyone to answer the question of will the people who are opel and Vauxhall fans buy a Buick or Cadillac?”
Probably not, as nothing Buick or Cadillac offers now would be better than what Opel presently offers; offerings that have to meet or exceed expectations. That, and Buick doesn’t have any clout or image in Europe (it being worse than Chevrolet in Euripe), and Cadillac hasn’t proven anything in over 20 years in Europe, so Opel is the best GM can offer in Europe.
“But I have been to a library and one of those books told me that the USA just happens to be a super power in this world!”
But you, ritter, are not a superpower, nor do you speak for the USA, or even GM for that matter. You never have, and you never will. You’re just someone who can’t accept that they are wrong.
By the way, do you still think we’re Europeans because we disagree with you? Not that you’ve known any actual European, not with your overt racist attitudes:
“All this info about Europe just confirms that they are secondary class people, heartless, underachievers that never should be taken seriously on a global level, the true armpit of the world!”
Would you like some more rope for your own noose?
Well Europe also provided the majority of the people who came to America and make up what we are with little bits of what each country had to offer.
Brian the term Second Class is just a cheap shot and part of the reason some folks in Europe hate Americans. While we here have had a lot of influence and have done a lot of good some folks here feel that is a license to treat people that are different poorly. There is no excuse for that.
I deal with people globally daily at work and While there are some differenced there are also many things that are the same. They have folks over there that just love America and even American cars as we are selling tons of parts to them. But there are some that just take more pride in their own products and would rather support the home team. We have folks here just like that and I am one as I would never buy a Import outside a Ferrari but there is little chance there anyways.
The reason you do not understand any of this is you have no respect for others or understanding with their points. You do not have to agree but respecting is the first step of understanding.
Europe for centuries has been the Crossroads of the world and has had seen a lot of change and influence. It has offered much that is good but you also have to take the bad with it. It is kind of like NYC where parts are as amazing as you will see and other parts will kill you.
My family dates back to this country to 1650 and were some of the first people here. But I still understand the value of understanding other countries, people and just other points of view. I do not agree with them all but I understand them because I listen and watch what they do and try to understand way.
This is part of the failing of so many Americans today that they take no interest in what is really going on in the world. While most only read the headlines on the Paul Walker accident they have little clue of the real issues globally. No wonder the press here can manipulate the people as they can not even tell you what is going on in the real world. This is how people get away with out being held accountable for the mess in the middle east and Benghazi.
Anyways to get back on topic the reason people over there do not embrace the American products is because they just think they make it better. It is their opinion and they are entitled to it. Just as I feel that Cadillac has a better car now than BMW but that is just my point of view. They may not agree but they can respect me as I respect their point.
I can’t say I cam blame them for the way they feel after all the cars we screwed up from 1970-2012.
IMHO I reckon one manufacturer will cover everything in the future, from cheap runarounds to luxary, performance & sports cars. With this in mind I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Ampera/Zafira Tourer front with the boomerang look given to the Spark as a new Agila
Firstly, as an American, may I please apologise to all for Brian Ritter’s blatant anti-European comments.
Secondly Mr. Ritter, have you ever researched the origin of your surname? It is in fact Anglo-Saxon, your ancestors originally hailing from either Yorkshire in England or Saxony in Germany! Your name means ‘writer’ which may well explain your regular contributions to this forum.
Now for a little history concerning the General its very self.
– Cadillac (GM’s oldest US brand) – was founded in 1902 by a French immigrant to the US.
– La Salle (former GM brand) – was also founded by a French immigrant to the US.
AND NOW FOR THE KILLER!
– Your beloved Chevy was founded by Louis Chevrolet – yes you guessed it … another French immigrant to the US.
Now, how about a bit on European auto-manufacturers.
– Karl Benz built the world’s first car in 1886. He would later team up with Gottfried Daimler to establish Daimler-Benz, which we all now know as Mercedes Benz.
– Peugeot (established in 1810 manufacturing bicycles) began building cars in 1889.
– Vauxhall was established in 1857, manufacturing marine engines for steam-boats. It began building cars in 1903.
– Opel was established in 1862, manufacturing sewing-machines and bicycles. It began building cars in 1896.
Peugeot, Vauxhall, Opel, Mercedes-Benz, Renault and Fiat (in that order) are the oldest engineering companies still building automobiles today. All have a proud history building cars for Europe and the world for more than 110 years. Perhaps this explains customer loyalty to these brand names.
Now just a little bit about Vauxhall in the UK.
The UK is GM’s fourth largest global sales market after China, the USA and Brazil.
Vauxhall is No.2 in the UK, having an 11.2% share versus Ford at 13.9%.
Vauxhall sales are growing faster annually than Ford’s and if this trend continues as it has done for the last 20 consecutive years, Vauxhall will be UK market-leader by 2018. Just as a measure of progress, thirty years ago Ford had over 30% of the UK market.
As such, only a complete lunatic would swap-out the Vauxhall griffin for Chevy’s bow-tie.
And finally, we Americans may well be the World’s No.1 superpower for the present, but the way the Chinese economy is growing, its GDP will surpass that of the US circa 2025. So Brian, nothing stays the same for ever. Enjoy it while you can!
@rocket-man
May I add two points:
“Ritter” is the German word for “knight”.
The Chevy bowtie has its origin in the flag of Switzerland. The founder of Chevy, Louis Chevrolet, was born In Switzerland. The Chevy badge is an hommage to his country of birth.
@Cruzebe
I could see what you’re saying when it comes to former British colonies, which were relinquished in the mid 20th century. However the main market that Opel hasn’t expanded into is North America, which I think would make production easier on German plants and British plants as well. Also with North America, the expansion of the Vauxhall brand wouldn’t be as problematic in considering that the U.S. has been independent from Great Britain for over 200 years and Canada for close to 145 years.
I figure that bringing Opel/Vauxhall over to North America would create a brand which a younger generation would like to buy because of it being more sporty, then most of Chevy’s cars (I was hoping that Chevy would make the Cruze more sporty but they did not) and Chevy’s sporty cars are not in a realm of affordability for most people in that younger generation. So basically bringing Opel/Vauxhall over to NA would create a brand which could compete with the likes of Scion, and be far more successful then Scion is in NA. The reason why I thought that Buick could be replaced by Opel in the NA market is because the production could all be done on one line then shipped over, or even produced in plants in Oshawa or Flint.
Though with regards to how you see it in the European market, and how the brand might be perceived due to colonial history, I can see what you get at, and that creating basically a single brand into 2 brands might not work in former British colonies, much in the same way French cars wouldn’t work in say Vietnam or Cambodia. Though it never hurts to get a second opinion.
@ Brian Ritter
Yeah I’m with Grawdaddy here, specially on the fact that I’m actually Canadian. Not European. Sorry eh?
Your making my point for me, if all these great people came from Europe then why did the us become a better more impressive country?
Seems to me if you had all these advantages you would still be the leader of this world!
“then why did the us become a better more impressive country?”
‘better more impressive’
What says the US is a better country? Better than what? On the outcome wars from 70 years ago? Haven’t you done anything non-military since? Something QUANTIFIABLE is what’s needed here, and not unsubstantiated jingoism.
Whatever your answer is probably won’t help you out of the racist hole you’ve dug.
You make these things so easy, it’s like being a defensive coordinator at Penn St!
Well go on then. If it’s so easy, what makes the US ‘better’ and ‘more impressive’?
Be careful with the depth of the hole you dig; you need to get out of it too.
Maybe it’s the 70% income tax, 19.2% value added tax, $4 per gallon gas tax. Has broken their sprit.
I’m working at the moment I’ll get to you soon
The thing is Mr. Ritter, the majority of the world’s great inventions and discoveries have originated from Europe, the Middle and the Far East.
The written word and alphabet – Sanskrit from India
Astronomy
Mathematics
Gunpowder
The Steam engine and the industrial revolution
Railways
Flight – Contrary to popular American belief (that being the Wright brothers), Henri Giffard of France made the first successful powered flight in 1852!
The internal combustion engine
The Automobile
Radio
Television
Penicillin
The Jet engine
Rockets
Nuclear Power
Microchip
The computer
The World Wide Web / internet
MP3
Need I go on?
The fact is Europeans have always been willing to share their knowledge. Further, all great civilisations across the ages have come about through the mass migration of people to another territory, eg. the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Mongols, the Moores, and yes … even Europeans to America and beyond – more than 1,000 years ago Leif Ericson, an Icelander, was the first non-native to set foot on the continent, nearly 500 years before Columbus.
After the 2nd World War, it wasn’t so much the migration of people, but that of technology which saw the likes of Japan rise as an industrial superpower. This was the start of globalisation and we have since seen the rise of South Korea and now China picking up this mantle. India and Brazil too are following. We have to accept that in 50 years time balance of global power will lie very differently to where it is today.
Ok I’ll ask the q’s, if Europe had all those advancements then why did America whip your ass?
And if Europe was so much more advanced then why did they come crawling to the us for help?
See? What did I tell ya? The ONLY CARD mr. ritter can play is about a war from 70 years ago!
When you say “‘better more impressive country”, the ONLY thing you can think of is WW2. Are you sure you’re not near-sighted too? I’m not an American, but I would think the US has a few things after 1945 – “a few” being used very loosely. Can’t you name anything?
Absolute jingoist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism
Jeez Brian, you really don’t get it do you!
I’m a proud American who has both served in the military and who has over the last 30 years also had the privilege of living and working abroad in the private sector in numerous countries, to include: Zimbabwe, South Africa, Botswana, the UK, Germany, Italy, Czech Republic, Russia, UAE, China, Canada and Brazil. I’m currently based in Illinois. In the course of my work and leisure, I’ve also traveled extensively to many other countries on every continent.
As for whipping asses … well Vietnam certainly wasn’t our proudest moment (I should know, I served in that theatre for 15 months before the ignominious withdrawal). The bungled Somalian excursion wasn’t exactly a shining star either. And the Second World War? – you seem to overlook the simple fact that it was the combined forces of the Allies that eventually won the day, not just the USA!
The Allied forces comprised troops from Britain and the Commonwealth countries, including Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Kenya, Rhodesia, Ceylon, among many others. Remember too that the attack by Japan on Pearl Harbour was the actual catalyst for the USA entering the war and joining with the Allies.
And here’s another little gem for you – the country that contributed most to the war effort as a nation in terms of the number of troops it committed in relation to its population size, was in fact Rhodesia.
Thankfully Europe is now largely United and at peace and all the better for it.
You would also do well to realise that in recent times it was in fact the US who called on the military and tactical support of other nations in both the Gulf War and Afghanistan. And if we go back a further generation, it was the US who called for help in Korea and Vietnam.
I’m a very proud American born and bred, but we as a nation are not always right; we’ve made many bad calls; we’ve had our fair share of failures; we still have much to learn and we’re a long way from being perfect!
There are many countries out there that are doing a pretty good job without interference from Washington. Similarly Detroit (and the General in particular) shouldn’t mess with the marketing and segmentation in territories they don’t necessarily understand.
The American Dream may work for the USA, but it’s definitely not the solution or answer for everyone! … GBA.
I’ll get to you, I’m still working! Your day is coming
@ Brian
Bring it on big man! … You – and whose army?
Here is an interesting interview (fr translation) of an opel/chevy seller who says his business will not be profitable anymore and thinks what’s happening is bad for Opel:
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=fr&tl=en&prev=_dd&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoactu.com%2Fjean-paul-lempereur—-sans-chevrolet–mes-concessions-opel-ne-sont-pas-rentables-.shtml
Ok I’ll take a moment out of my busy day to give you a small piece of info you asked for!
How many countries make up Europe?
How many countries make up the USA?
That’s right, we’re trying to compare a country to a continent!
So I ask you what country do you want to compare against the us?
I’m just trying to set the guidelines for what info I need to bring!
If you insist on comparing the us vs all of Europe then you have already stated that you can compete country for country!
More will come when I know what game we are playing!
As for the bad days the us military have had, the only reason we have any resistance in this world is because we as a military force are held to a higher standard then the rest of the world! We have comply with rules other countries don’t have to out of fairness or political pressure!
In many of the military struggles our hands we’re tied and could not destroy the enemy, without people complaining that public and private area’s where being destroyed by our forces! Innocent people are being caught in the cross fire which again makes the us play by a set of rules nobody else has to follow, Countries building military weapons near school’s hospitals public area’s knowing that if you take it out the world will come down on us!
So when the world wants to play war on a even playing field, will bring our toys you bring yours and will see who’s left standing!
C’mon Ritter, you’re just really embarrassing us Americans now.
Europe and Asia are one co-joined land mass. However they are and have always been regarded as separate continents.
There are more than 50 countries in Europe but less than 2/3rds of them (28) are members of the European Union.
The United States of America (another Union in case you hadn’t noticed) has 50 or perhaps 52 states depending on what methodology you choose to base your counting.
A few comparisons for you to chew on, along with your tobacco:
USA
50 States (excluding DC and islands of Guam/Puerto Rico/Virgin Isles/Samoa/Mariana)
314 million people
3.8 million square miles
$16.2 trillion annual GDP
Number of annual new car sales prior to 2008 recession – average of 16.6 million
European Union
28 member States (excluding Russia, Ukraine and many former CIS countries)
495 million people
3.9 million square miles
$16.7 trillion annual GDP
Number of annual new car sales prior to 2008 recession – average of 16.0 million
So actually both the US and the EU are pretty well matched.
And here’s another casual fact to throw out when you’re next supping a Coors with your buddy … France is the European Union’s largest country with an area of 261,000 square miles. But hey man, the Lone Star State whips France’s ass with an area of 269,000 square miles!
For goodness sakes man … GET REAL !! THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE USA VERSUS THE REST OF THE WORLD. It is about independent nations respecting one another and not imposing their will where it’s neither needed nor wanted!
Anytime you feel the need to analyze one nation to another you let me know!
Show me one nation in Europe that can stand against the us is anything by itself!
Then we can have this conversation for real!
Comparing 50 separate countries to one is a complete joke!
No, mr ritter. We’re playing the game of ‘back up what you say with quantifiable evidence’
So when you say the US is a ‘better more impressive country’, I want you to prove it.
Something other than a war from 70 years ago.
Get on with it; you’re wasting everyone’s time.
Can someone drop me a line when the Vauxhall Opel Chevrolet conversation resumes – Thanks
@Brian on December 6, 2013 at 5:06 am and many other similar postings
I can blame you and I will! When you elect to buy one car and not the other(chevy vs opel) even when both cars come from the same company and have similar designs platform’s and engine’s and you still won’t give the Chevy brand a chance no matter how great the car is! That puts all the blame on your shoulders!
Your people as a group let the Chevy experiment fail cuz you didn’t want to see your precious opel over taken by chevy like other places in this world have!
All your utterances are complete nonsense.
The choice is nearly never Chevrolet vs. Opel, but Chevrolet vs. Dacia, Kia, slightly also Skoda or Hyundai, although Hyundai has, methinks, already considered to be mainstream.
The other choice is Opel vs. VW, Ford, Toyota, Peugeot, Renault, and also Fiat.
Remember the quote of Chevrolet CEO Thomas Sedran from Automotive news that hardly andone who considers to buy a Chevrolet has also Opel as an alternative on his radar, and vice versa.
And then you make threatening moves as if you intend to force people at gun point to buy a Chevrolet branded cars and when those people tell you they consider you a fool and turn their back on you, you threaten with nuclear annihilation of Europe as a whole. Well, one might take your fantasies as a proper description of the US rule over the world (there is no McDonald without McDonnel Douglas), but which is rarely spelled out in this crazy brutality as from your keyboard. You should better shut up.
He’s right we should talk about the topic, what I don’t like is you compare chevy to other lower brand when I’m bothered buy opel fans turning their backs on chevy! When they are from the same company!
See I would buy a Vauxhall, opel, holden, buick, chevy, cadillac, hummer, Pontiac, sabb!
Cuz I’m a GM fan! Unlike you!
ElTraxFR provides us on December 10 at 10:39 am provided a link to an interesting article about a Opel/Chevrolet dealership in the North of France who said that without the Chevrolet sales his company would suffer heavy problems. He said that last year (i.e. 2012) he sold 900 Chevrolet and 1600 Opel.
France is one of the few countries (as far as I know) where the distance between Opel and (Korean) Chevrolet sales was relatively small. According to the 2012 CCFA statistic, 71.666 new Opels were sold, and 24.739 Chevrolet, i.e. Opel 2.9 times as much as Chev. or Chev. 35% of Opel sales. The dealership owner portraid in the article fared better with his Chev. sales than the national average.
The automobile market in France is dominated by the three French brands, who together command 48% of the market, with Renault, Peugeot and Citroën with 18%, 16% and 14% (rounded); next comes VW after a large gap with 8% and the rest is less than 5%. After Ford and Dacia (by Renault), Opel came 7th with 3.77% and Chevrolet 16th after Kia and Hyundai and directly followed by Skoda ans SEAT. Opel followed closely by Nissan, Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and FIAT.
Interesting detail from the article: “Un constructeur coréen s’est en revanche déjà proposé pour occuper l’espace bientôt disponible.” (A Korean automaker has already offered to occupy the space soon available) — I would have said; another Korean automaker.
Chevrolet might have been helped in France because of the French sounding name.
That was the point of the Chevy brand in the first place, it was brought into the market to be a value brand competitor to Skoda or Dacia or the upcoming Datsun brand. The problem was that of branding because the Chevy brand was tarnished by rubbish Daewoos that were sold prior to the present. The other problem was that most of the cars the Chevy sold were going for the same price as Opels (I think there was an article on the forums comparing the pricing of a Chevy cruze/malibu to a Opel astra/insignia. So you have a tarnished brand selling cars for the same price as regular cars. Now answer me this Ritter, does that make any sense to you? No of course not, if they allowed the brand to flourish and sold their cars for lower prices, it may have worked, but it would have cost more to do then it was worth, specially seeing as Opel has a 6 percent market share compared to Chevy’s 1.6 percent in Europe.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/gm-to-pull-chevy-from-europe-to-focus-on-expanding-opel.html
Here’s an article about why Chevy is pulling out of Europe. It also outlines that Opel is actually expanding its current market share, and that the whole point of Chevy was to alleviate their losses in the European market, but with the expansion of the Opel brand, and the stagnant performance of Chevrolet, this is a much better strategy going forward. I would highly suggest you read it, not just for the sake of your argument about Chevrolet, but considering the arguments you have presented about America and Europe and the lack of coherent dialog and evidence you have presented to all your arguments. A good read of something may educate you, though as a realist, saying such may come off as too optimistic.
As for people turning their back on the Chevy brand, they are still buying GM, so whats the problem?
“Brian” shows again his ingenuity by complaining “what I don’t like is you compare chevy to other lower brand when I’m bothered buy opel fans turning their backs on chevy!”
It was a decision consciously taken by the GM management to stamp Chevrolet in Europe as a bargain basement cheapo Korean import brand. So your tears should be directed to Detroit, not to a loyal customer base of that brand whose original name is Daewoo. They ware and are looking for other bargain basedment cheapo brand, and find them today rather unter the brand name Dacia (by Renault).
And, frankly, no “Opel fan” could ever turn his back on Chevy, since Chevrolet was never ever in is sight. Why should a fan of a mainstream brand with a proud history of more than 100 years turn his (or her) eyes ever on a cheapo Korean import brand, even if that one got another name?
You should stop fantasizing about the world and start with taking knowledge of facts.
And beware! Facts are stubborn things. You might get hurt when you ignore them.
But the fans are so important. Of real importance are the millions of people buy a new car every year and hardly anybody of them considering an Opel would have spend a second of time about thinking about a Chevrolet as an alternative.
GM management gave Chevrolet the content of a cheapo bargain basement Korean import brand, by renaming same.
When I need a new car I look at what GM has locally and I pick one to buy! This idea that people would never buy a car because of what name plate use to be on the car is a complete joke, and speaks to the ignorance of the buying public in those areas!
When looking for a car your suppose to do your homework, research each car, go sit in one, hell drive the dam thing before saying never in a million years will I own one!
This is the main reason I have little to no respect for you and your people! You never gave chevy a chance no matter what cars they brought to the table which shows me that you are stubborn closed minded classless pathetic scum bags!
That’s like saying, I’ll never be friends with that guy because of his skin color, or because he’s from that country!
To top all of this off the people who follow opel seems to think opel has the right to tell GM what to do, or what they are going to do! Last time I checked GM cuts the checks to the tune of millions in losses! You’d never let your kids tell you how you house was going to be run!
Lastly for the people who are now going to say chevy cars were not very good remember both brands have very similar dna in each of their respective cars!
So explain, is it cuz your to lazy and go look at the cars and choose, or are the cars not good enough knowing that they are based on the same cars you love so much!
You Cant Have It Both Ways! K/T!
“When I need a new car I look at what GM has locally and I pick one to buy! This idea that people would never buy a car because of what name plate use to be on the car is a complete joke, and speaks to the ignorance of the buying public in those areas!”
Ok how’s this for research, first looking at a model sold before Chevy began to sell decent cars in Europe a older Chevy Lacetti. This is a Lacetti Forum,
http://www.daewooclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?tid=6995
The person in this forum has had this many problems in the span of a couple of years. Hmm you know for 2 years that’s a fair amount of issues with the car. Now look at a Chevy Malibu, and I can already say 2 problems with the car. There is nothing wrong with the car it self, the same as the current Insignia, but first off, doesn’t offer a hatch or a wagon, a must for most European consumers, and this is not sold as such. The second issue is cost, like I said before the Malibu and the Insignia were similarly priced. Now if this is a value brand we are talking about, why is it that it costs the same as an Opel, a person who is buying for value would think why would I buy that when I can get an Opel for the same cost. And vice versa for someone in the market for something more expensive then a Skoda but less then a BMW. Same is said for the Astra compared to the Cruze, though it is different in that the Cruze is sold in both a hatch and wagon, but the cost is still an issue. If you’re trying to sell a value brand, emphasis on value is a must.
“This is the main reason I have little to no respect for you and your people! You never gave chevy a chance no matter what cars they brought to the table which shows me that you are stubborn closed minded classless pathetic scum bags!”
I’m going to again reiterate that I am not European, nothing against European people though, I’m Canadian. Just as I said before. Sorry eh? And once again, damn you’re racist.
“This is the main reason I have little to no respect for you and your people! You never gave chevy a chance no matter what cars they brought to the table which shows me that you are stubborn closed minded classless pathetic scum bags!
That’s like saying, I’ll never be friends with that guy because of his skin color, or because he’s from that country!”
You just contradicted yourself. I mean really do you speak English? I mean really. You’re saying that one shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but you’re doing that to all Europeans because they won’t buy Chevrolet. Also they did give them a chance, since 2005, by selling Daewoo branded Chevy’s which have no where near the quality of Skoda or Dacia, let alone VW or Opel. When they brought in the newer models, which were finally good Chevy cars, it was under a tarnished brand already. The Chevy brand to the level it was supposed to be at in terms of branding, would have cost more then turning Opel around. If you read the bloomberg (was it too complicated for you?) article I posted in my response, you would have seen Opel is turning around.
“To top all of this off the people who follow opel seems to think opel has the right to tell GM what to do, or what they are going to do! Last time I checked GM cuts the checks to the tune of millions in losses! You’d never let your kids tell you how you house was going to be run!”
Opel isn’t telling what GM to do, you certainly don’t know the workings of capitalism either. GM is the SUPPLIER while the consumer is the DEMAND. If GM doesn’t get the DEMAND for Chevy then they will not SUPPLY Chevy vehicles. See how that all works, so simple eh? Also do you lack intellectual thought, because while true I am not a parent, I let logic dictate my decisions and if my children came up with a logical rebuttal of what I had said to them, I would take it into consideration with regards to my decision.
“Lastly for the people who are now going to say chevy cars were not very good remember both brands have very similar dna in each of their respective cars!”
Actually you’re correct on that matter for once. Because lets face the facts, GM cars (yes all of GM) between 1985-2007 were rubbish, with exception to their GMT series trucks and SUVs the Camaro and the Corvette, were unrelaible rubbish, I have a 15 year old pick up truck that has the same amount of problems as another family members Pontiac G5 that’s half the age. Only after 2008 did GM cars actually have reliable cars and trucks. Even in Europe were GM cars rubbish, in the same period I might add, the Astra prior to the newest model was absolute rubbish in terms of front end reliability and the vectra was disgusting. Daewoo cars were just as bad in that time period, which were the models sold as Chevy’s between 2005 and now.
“So explain, is it cuz your to lazy and go look at the cars and choose, or are the cars not good enough knowing that they are based on the same cars you love so much!”
Well in considering what I had said about cost of the vehicles in comparison to Opels, and keeping in mind that Chevy was supposed to be a value brand, and researching problems with older model Euro Chevy’s (Daewoos). I figure I have defended my ability to research specific cars from particular brands.
Why do you keep talking about things that took place 30 years ago!