A recent editorial piece in Automotive News suggests Dodge, which has vowed to become Fiat-Chrysler Automobile’s performance arm, could be set up nicely to fill the niche left by General Motors’ Pontiac brand. The article says FCA is building a lineup that is a “natural home” for displaced GM customers looking to replace their Hummers and Pontiacs.
With the death of Hummer, GM no longer had an off-road focused brand for its customers. These former Hummer owners may feel comfortable at Jeep, AN says, a brand which offers a good alternative to the H2 and H3 in its Wrangler models. Similarly, Dodge is touting itself as “the American performance brand,” and will pump out more offerings similar to its Challenger and Charger Hellcat models in the future, potentially luring in old Pontiac buyers.
“The Dodge brand is open to any buyer who is looking for performance,” Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis told AN when asked if they are seeking out old Pontiac buyers. “Every Dodge vehicle is designed to deliver that visceral feel that reminds buyers why they fell in love with driving in the first place, and we’re open to any buyer who is looking for that feeling, regardless of the brand they’ve previously driven.”
Dodge says it will have seven new performance nameplates by 2018, which should win them some more enthusiast type buyers. GM hasn’t shied away from offering performance models either, and may be winning over performance-minded Pontiac shoppers with its Chevrolet SS and Camaro.
Even amidst strong competition, GM isn’t letting its Pontiac customers go easy. Company spokeswoman Ryndee Carney told AN the automaker consistently communicates with Pontiac owners, alerting them of new models and offering brand loyalty incentives.
Comments
Oh boy, here they come! You don’t even have to brace yourself guys!
“Since GM isn’t going to make a car called ‘the Chevrolet Pontiac Grand Prix GXP’ out of the Commodore and priced about about $25,000, I’m going to go buy a Hellcat Challenger to protest GM!!!11 Yeah, that’ll show ’em! Teaching them not to screw over the Pontiac loyalists! Us die-hard loyalists are powerful consumer group! Don’t screw with us or we’ll bankrupt GM again!”
I have JJ on stand-by. 😉
Hate to say I told everyone so… but… wait, no I don’t!
This is easy for GM to fix. Avenir could be a GTO on a shoestring budget. Take a CTS and strip it to the bone and you have a G8 that no Cadillac target customer would want.
And finally, take the ATS and strip it to the bone, and you have the RWD G6 that Lutz envisioned as the 2012-2014 comeback car for the brand.
Then you would have a three-car, all RWD-first badge that could win over millennials who are just getting their buying power back.
But GM is still too timid, I’m afraid, to try.
Frankly, a Dodge Charger LA platform car is in my future, unless things change. I can ride out a G6 (soon to be G8 GT) and Kappa till the end of the decade… and the newer LA platform will be out by then. It’s FCA’s answer to Alpha.
But Dodge has eyes on the Miata program, and I’d give 50/50 odds they’ll have their own Solstice GXP with the FCA 2.0T and Miata’s body.
Did I mention Mopar offers lifetime bumper to bumper warranties? FCA has got it together, and they’ve got millenials and $2/gallon gas in their crosshairs. Get it together, GM. Think Pontiac.
Dude you have no clue on what a real Pontic was.
You also do not. Realize how bad off FCM is. So little product and just grand standing with an engine to buy time and not get lost in all the new Ford and GM product.
Enjoy the cheap gas while it last. Odds are it will be gone by summer.
How in the world do you take a 4 door Avenir concept as a basis for a 2 door performance coupe GTO?
And G8’s are not stripped down anything.
Odd relationship with reality right there.
Well they won’t have the SS for much longer – will be gone by 2017 since that’s when production of the Commodore ends, on which it’s a rebadged version
Bring PONTIAC back!!!!
As a life time Pontiac owner, collector and Pontiac car show winner on the national level all I can say is no.
The fact is the true real Pontiac owners abandoned Pontiac long ago on most of their models. when they lost their own engines.
The reality is A Pontiac was a car with special engineering, styling and their own engine back in the day. The Firebird and G8 were nothing but restyled Chevys and Holden’s and nice cars but not really full on Pontiacs.
Even my GTP was just a restyled Regal.
I never understood this till later and thought the older Pontiac fans were narrow minded but I saw where all this lead as GM never knew what Pontiac really was. They though they add a few tricks and ribbed ground FX and that made a Pontiac. Well it did not.
Looking back and having driven all of the great cars in their past I can see the difference and it is clear.
I remember the year after the Pontiac closing they had over 1,200 race and show cars at the Pontiac nationals and nary a real complaint of the loss.
We all kind of knew the final blow was the Aztec and later the G3. Even when Bob Lutz arrived it was too late when he asked you have a performance division but you have no RWD?
As for Dodge. sure I am sure there may be a few people migrate over that really were never part of the core. The fact is Pontiac is gone and we know they will never be back.
But on the other hand the Pontiac that have been build are still with us and for the price of an over priced and over weight Dodge that can not even put the power down we van go out and buy a real GTO or Trans Am from the past that really is a lot of fun and much easier to work on. Also the fact is these cars will continue to go up in value while the Dodge will end up on a used car lot for 12 grand in the future with a lot of expensive repairs.
I see and speak from the inside of the Pontiac base and collectors. I still have mine and it is in the garage and ill remain with me so for me Pontiac never really died.
The truth is we want a Pontiac and we have spent out lives avoiding the crap from Chrysler. We all know you get what you pay for and that the Chrysler products always have fallen short because of the corners they cut.
While we did suffer a little with the idea of no Pontiac we did not piss and moan anywhere like the Holden boys are now. Most went to the Camaro with no issues as daily drivers and other fun products. I replaced my truck with a HHR SS. Not because I loved the HHR but the SS package with 300 HP with the GM upgrade would out run and out handle just about all the last Pontiacs made accept for two. It also would haul a load too. I wanted performance at just over $20K and had to go to Chevy to find it even before Pontiac died.
What the folks at Chrysler have to remember is we are GM fans first and were mostly Pontiac fans second. The same reasons we did not buy a Dodge in the past are still in place.
GM has things coming that will be of interest to most of us and we will not leave home. Now that most of the platforms are being replaced the move to make different versions like the performance models will be put in place.
While the V8 is becoming an expensive options we still can buy older ones easily or we can buy a modern Turbo as a daily driver that will get 32 MPG and rip a 13 second 1/4 mile all day. My old Big Block Chevys were never as fast till I had to modify them.
Actually I am please Dodge is making a Performance line but the truth is they really need to focus on the smaller cars as they really have crap for cars outside of Jeep and the trucks.
The large RWD cars are out of date and vastly heavy. The 200 is an improvement but no where near as good as they need an no replacement soon. The Dart has been a failure. The Fiat 500 even the dealers are mad they are selling so poorly.
You can do all the hey look at me performance cars you want but you still need to sell the every day cars that pay the bills and make the bulk of the money. This was a mistake GM made and it cost them in the past. You fix your base line up first then you play.
Dude as a former Pontiac Sales person, I disagree with several of your comments. Pontiac even with a corporate motor was a better car than a lowly chevy. Better suspension than a buick. As a Pontiac owner, club member and enthusiast I will purchase lease vehicles that are like what a Pontiac would be. Pontiac is a better car then chevy or buick. My wife leases a new care every 2-3 years. Last 3 cars have been non GM! Current car is a Dodge Dart Rallye.
I agree with Scott3: Pontiac loyalists who remember the heyday are also much older and sophisticated, so a performance Buick or Cadillac V-sport would be more in line with their tastes.
Pontiac was beautiful in the day, but that day was in the 1960s and 1970s. They blew it and Pontiac is dead. Long dead. Buried and over. Time to move on.
My mother has been buying mildly performance oriented cars since 1956…okay, maybe the ’63 impala 409 was a little more than mild. Anyhow the last three new car purchases were Pontiac Bonnevilles culminating with an ’05 GXP. Not all-out performance, but never a plain, old grocery getter.
Come 2011 she decides it is new car time again – A G8 GXP would have been just what she wanted except they could no longer be had. We shopped what remained of GM’s offerings, Cadillac styling was too over the top for her. Buick was, well, too Buick – yawn. Chevrolet’s models were again just a bit too plain and utilitarian. Basically GM no longer built the she was looking for. She shocked me by purchasing a Camaro RS convertible. She has her bit of handling and performance, but in a less functional car than her old Bonneville GXP.
I still see a hole in GM’s line-up where Pontiac once lived.
Agreed!
Yes, totally…at the end Pontiac was selling discounted red neck racers to people with weak credit–just like the new Dodge.
I love the cars, Charger and Challenger, mostly because they are out of date and the last big, heavy ol’ school cars that I ever expect to see sold in the US.
Honestly, the collapse of Pontiac Brooke my heart but has oppened up potential dpace for Buick which is a good thing for GM.
Also, let’s remember that Dodge it’s nothing more than a “marque” used for cars that cold be sold as Chrysler, much like if Chevy moved Camaro, SS and Corvette to a unique brand like, say, Pontiac.
For me, it’s a very short and sweet answer – NO. I’m in total agreement with scott3 – first loyalty is to GM and with that a loyalty to Pontiac. Having been around Pontiacs since age 4, it’s what I know and love. It also helps still owning an original, unrestored 1967 Bonneville Convertible originally purchased new by my parents in ’67.
I’m not gonna bash Dodge, or any Mopar product. But, I’m not a Mopar guy. It’s that simple.
The article is wrong on multiple levels.
“But I see the biggest migration of GM customers to coming from Pontiac — and going to Dodge.”
Grammatical error aside, since Pontiac has been gone for 5 years, where is the corresponding uptick in Dodge sales? Is this suddenly going to take place now? I don’t think so. The migration has already begun and Chevy has picked up most of those displaced.
G3? Chevy Sonic (even the Spark is better than the G3/ Aveo, IMO)
G5? Cruze
G6? Malibu (maybe Buick Regal GS)
G8? SS (for the RWD V-8 aficionados) or Impala (for the masses that didn’t care about cylinders or driven wheels)
Solstice? No American manufacturer has a comparable car in this niche market dominated by the Miata/MX-5. If GM was interested, they could offer something from Chevy easier than through reviving Pontiac, and it would be easier for GM than Dodge.
“…since GM no longer has a brand dedicated to performance vehicles.” “GM has no mainstream brand purely devoted to performance or even with a strong performance image.”
a. GM never had a brand dedicated to performance vehicles. Even in the 60’s, Pontiac made station wagons and full size 4-door vehicles primarily intended for other roles than performance (albeit with performance options). Pontiac was never purely or exclusively about performance.
b. Chevrolet has dedicated performance vehicles. For every performance model Pontiac had, Chevrolet had an equivalent all the way up through 2009. And for pretty much every vehicle that Dodge has or will have, Chevy will offer a competitor.
“But GM is not whole and never will be until it has a brand dedicated to aggressively styled and affordable performance vehicles.”
Oh, sorry – This quote is from another article by Mr. Truett. Either way, affordable performance is not possible with a V-8 any longer. The only affordable performance from Dodge is the dart (184HP I-4) and that is with a liberal interpretation of performance. Challenger and Charger start around $27k (V-8 starts at $33k).
For Dodge to position itself as a performance only brand is boxing itself into an unprofitable corner, not able to survive another recession. Very shortsighted on the part of FCA, if true. Unfortunately, Pontiac didn’t survive because they couldn’t maintain profitability. Their performance models didn’t stem the outward cash flow, and I don’t see Dodge doing any better at that game. Enthusiasts may help shape perception, but they only represent a minority of car buyers. Finally, to answer the question in the source article’s title “Can Dodge rebuild Pontiac Excitement?”. If they try to apply the same strategy that worked for Pontiac in the 60’s, then the answer is no. Times have changed.
I dare say that it was in old times gm bad and wrong policies. pontiac that are not produced
Guess what? I am a Pontiac G 8 gt owner and a Dodge Challenger owner. There is life after GM.
Here is the deal.
First off Pontiac had degraded to a division that claimed performance but only had two low volume cars that provided that. They were done and toast at that point and it would have taken billions to bring them back.
Second while you may not precieve some of the cars out there now as performance cars well you have not driven one lately have you?
My V6 Malibu while not an SS will out run my old GTP easily and handle right with it. My HHR SS will out run my stock Big Block SS cars I used to own with no issue.
The real issue is right now there Cruze and Sonic were never really made into a performance car. Much of that I feel may be because they were waiting to invest in the new platforms they will be on in the near future. Time will tell there.
The Camaro is a barging when it comes to V8 performance as well with the V6 to.
I also expect changes to be coming to the Impala in the way of a Turbo and AWD. Also most Buicks will be a Turbo and AWD.
The reality is cheap V8 engines are in the last few years. We will still be able to buy them but you will have to pay a premiu on them. The companies will not tell you that but just look at the price of anything with a V8 and you are lucky to get it with the options you want for less than $40K now. The automakers will not take away the V8 but they will limit sales with the higher prices.
I was always they will never get the V8 away from me till they tear it from my cold hand kind of guy. But I have fallen for the Turbo Ecotec with the GM upgrade and just love it. I have never had torque like this engine 315 FT LBS from 1800-5300 RPM. The only thing I lack is the sound of the V8 that I miss.
Let GM get their house in order and get the new platforms out and just see what they bring us. Too often people complain when what they want is unknown to them and just around the corner.
GM has had a lot on their plates and worrying about a low volume performance model is on the list but not at the top.
I would much rather have them get their volume product right and improve their place in the market and then have the money to do a performance car right. Lets face it I would not want a 708 HP 5th gen Camaro when if we wait we can have a 708 HP 6th gen Camaro that can use all the power and have less weight to drag around.
The Hellcat is a great engine wasted in a old outdated heavy car. By the time they get a new smaller car here in 2018 time will be limited with it.
I will never buy a Chrysler product.
As Pontiac lover I will not stoop to purchasing a regular chevy. Corvette yes, rest of chevy no.
Get over it Williams as if you have bought a Pontiac over the last 35 years you already have bought a Chevy,
Under the skin they became all sisters.
Pontiac was just a fancier Chevy and sportier Buick.
And as a life long Pontiac fan I know the truth so don’t try to BS me.
When you look at Sergio, how he ran Fiat, it becomes clear that he probably will kill off Dodge by starving it of new product.
Dodge is not a brand or division. Instead, it’s used to sell cars like Camaro, SS, and Corvette much like Fiat it’s used to sell tiny Spark rivals.
At this point, one must add all of the Mopar brands together to come up with an entire division. Very Sad.
I was crushed to see Pontiac die but, in truth, it was best for Chevy, GMC and Buick because the market had changed (performance had moved up market) & GM had responded with toy car plastic cladding instead of moving Pontiac up market.
Now, Regal, Cascada and Aveair will full the niche.
Stephen I agree Sergio is not the best fit for Chrysler in different ways.
Chrysler was damaged by their two previous owners. Daimler did some nice larger cars at the time but they failed miserably on the smaller cars they desperately need now. Also Magnus left them pretty much gutted in the car lines leaving the poor FWD cars in place and really not investing in the larger cars to fix their issues.
I just spoke to the guy trying to turn their performance parts division around and what a mess. He has a major task and so little staff and money to do it.
Fiat is not the great savior some think it is. They are not all that financially stable and have been a topic of sale to VW. Everyone it seems wants the truck and jeep line but not much else.
Fiat is doing the best with what they have on the 200 and Dart but while better than what they had they are still not enough.
Sergio is now also fooling with Ferrari and trying to spin them odd with stock sale that could lead to Fiat at some point losing control if they need the money. The head of Ferrari left because he wanted no part of the future that is coming.
The fact is GM has some money left when they entered chapter 11 and they tried to use it for carry over products. These are the cars like the Malibu, XTS, ZL1, Cruze and others to carry them trough while the new money went the new trucks, Alpha and new platforms to replace the Delta 2, Epsilon and others.
While these products were not the 100% solution they were better than just sitting there with nothing but old trash like Chrysler did with the Sebring and other lesser vehicles.
Plymouth is gone. Dodge is now charges with competing with Chevy and the Chrysler line is now down graded to meet Buick and Lincoln.
Folks just have to realize the cost in money and man power along with the fact Pontiac was damaged in a horrible way and had no global market. GM had too many models and the fact is this was not the first time GM had considered cutting Pontiac. In the early 80 they came close then only to be saved by Grand Am sales that moved the death to Olds.
Building cars is not like it is for some of the customers. It is not so much or should not be treated as only an emotional thing. You have to also use your head and make good business choices or you will lose the entire company.
Tough to deal with but the fact of business.
I would like to encourage all of my fellow Pontiac fans who DO want to see Pontiac return, to keep the faith. Unlike some of the other people who posted here earlier, I am a PONTIAC fan FIRST and ONLY. A GM without Pontiac means absolutely nothing to me. If I HAD to purchase a new vehicle today, it would be a Dodge. I simply CANNOT be expected to purchase a new vehicle from the automaker that KILLED Pontiac. Yes, of course there’s still life after Pontiac, but it simply isn’t the same. I have owned nothing but Pontiacs my entire adult life, and even as a kid, I grew-up with Pontiac because my parents had one. Therefore, my ENTIRE life has been lived with Pontiac. You can’t shake something like that. I STILL own a Pontiac NOW. Here we are, almost six years after Pontiac was murdered, and I STILL want the brand revived; I STILL miss the brand. I’d like to address PONTIAC ONLY guys like me: Each of you is a consumer, and as such you have the right to insist that Pontiac return. Don’t give-up. For me, Pontiac is worth sticking-up for, however long it may take.