Lets open up old wounds, shall we?
Leave it to Bob Lutz, one of the industry greats, to let us know that Pontiac had another awesome car planned after the release of the Solstice and G8, according to a report from CarAdvice. Many fans will agree that the G8 was the best thing that had ever happened to Pontiac, but unfortunately the brand was shut down just after people caught on (like my parents, owners of an ’09 G8 GT).
Let’s take a look at the other side of the world for a minute. The Australians seem to have all the fun, with their Holdens basically being beefed-up G8s in different flavors (wagon, sedan, and even ute pickup). The only thing they’re missing seemed to have been a coupe. But what would a Holden/G8 coupe or 5th-generation GTO look like? Probably something like the Holden Coupe 60 Concept. We personally think it’s one of the best-looking things that GM has ever considered building. And side-exit exhaust? Amen. You’ll hear no complaints from us.
Although this concept was created back in ’08, it still looks powerful, angry, and masculine. Three important characteristics of a muscle car, really. We’ll probably never know if this 5th-gen GTO would have sold well in the U.S, but if it looked anything like the Holden concept, it probably would have done just fine.
Comments
You are just looking a the concept so some things would have changed some. These photos and reports are not new, It was pretty well known GM was working on one and there were even some drawings of the Pontiac version floated around by some web sites and magazines.
Bob just stated in the recent R &T that the car was to the point they had it in clay.
If Bob had more time he would have turned Pontiac around but he had little time and no money so there was not a lot he could do. His scolding of GM for what they did do was well heard. He asked on camera Pontiac people looking at a custom Aztek nose why could we not do something like this. He took them to task on the original 04 GP and asked how can you have a performance division with no RWD cars or engines. He tried to correct things with little money with the GTO and GXP line. He did add the G8 and Solstice but it was too late by then.
The reality is Pontiac started to die a long time ago and by the time someone who understood the brand arrived with power to make changes the changes were too late and too underfunded.
They are gone and not coming back and that is a shame.
I attended the Pontiac Nationals last week taking first in class. The Pontiac Hobby is alive and well and while there are no new Pontiacs they can not take the older ones away from us.
Interesting that you said “understand the brand”… I think the real issue is understanding the brand in relation to the direction the automotive industry is trending… Pontiac = Horribly outdated bizzaro interiors until the G6 and G8… If you dont forcast your brand in regards the direction the industry is heading then your brand goes down the toilet… The other issue who was Pontiacs customer and competition… I dont see Acura with a G3 like vehicle… Pontiac had horrible brand managment, Lutz needed to reboot the whole brand/marketing team… At the end of the day the Korean brands have killed of many of our American brands, we can think they caught us with our pants down, but truthefully GM was just plain blind to the truth around them… What a shame… RIP Pontiac… We all miss you and look forward to a propper reboot…
The 97-03 Grand Prix gt/gtp and 04-05 Bonneville sle/gxp were the best interior/exterior designs until the g8 which came 5-6 years later. . . . . The G6 had one of the worst interiors! (They should have put leather padding and stitching on the door panels and have more luxury options; nav, panoramic sunroof, hud, dual climate, rear hvac, rear heated seats, front heated/cooled, dual exhaust, better interior colors (dark black, white, tan and dark brown/orange), better overall finish with a mixture of brushed aluminum trim and wood trim. I am kind’ve bashing the G6, but I own 2 a GTP and a GT and they are good little cars, (with 18K on one and 31K on the other)
Pontiac sold a lot better (as did GMC) because of the GM of Canada dealer franchising philosophy. The US was working towards that.
Chev/Olds (and later just Chev) and Pontiac-Buick-GMC. Cadillac went with the “stronger” dealer (financial, facilities, customer satisfaction, etc.)
Pontiac had high volume Pontiacized versions of Chevies with a small nameplate premium. Long before the T1000, there was the Acadian — a Chevette with Pontiac emblems. Tempest — a Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Corsica. The Sunfire/G5 was a volume car — Canada had both a coupe and the sedan and for a long time Pontiac US didn’t think that there was a market for the sedan. Let’s not forget Parisienne……in the mid-80’s lots of these went from Canada to the US.
Basically, the additional models made a stand alone P-B-GMC franchise very viable.
My college roommate from Ontario had an awesome 375HP 396CI 1966 Beaumont, though the Chevy axles under 1959 Pontiacs in Canada looked like they were perched on roller skates, to my 10 year old eyes in ’61 or thereabouts!.
Buick-Pontiac-GMC would have been a strong channel in American if not for Obama’s Auto Task Force in their presumptuous, ignorance about the business.
It wouldn’t have looked like that.
The Coupe 60 could go more than 60km/h (37m/h) because the wheel arches were so close to the wheels. The interior and wheels would be different. Bucket seats would be all leather, gear stick would match Commodore, steering wheel would match commodore and the digital display would be replaced with the Commodore’s gauge cluster.
Hope this means Holden would be willing to build it and give us a VE Monaro too!
*couldn’t
Chevy SS coupe anyone? I find this idea interesting.
It’s called the Camaro. Having a SS coupe would conflict too much with Corvette on the high-end, and Camaro on the low-end.
There’s no reason Buick (once free from government ownership/control) can’t sell a GTO under a sub-brand… Say, Pontiac?
Interesting that you said “understand the brand”… I think the real issue is understanding the brand in relation to the direction the automotive industry is trending… Pontiac = Horribly outdated bizzaro interiors until the G6 and G8… If you dont forcast your brand in regards the direction the industry is heading then your brand goes down the toilet… The other issue who was Pontiacs customer and competition… I dont see Acura with a G3 like vehicle… Pontiac had horrible brand managment, Lutz needed to reboot the whole brand/marketing team… At the end of the day the Korean brands have killed of many of our American brands, we can think they caught us with our pants down, but truthefully GM was just plain blind to the truth around them… What a shame… RIP Pontiac… We all miss you and look forward to a propper reboot…
Well not understanding is when you present vehicles like an Aztek SUV and a G6 with no real performance engines.
I agree the cladding stayed around too long but that was the least of their issues. The fact was all the cars were pretty much like what you could get at Chevy but with cladding and red dash lights.
There were peaks of greatness where the engineers got what they wanted at times but that was too far and few in-between.
Cars like the G4, Vibe and others were sending the wrong message. Chevy offering a Cobalt SS turbo but not Pontiac with the G5. Imagine a Turbo Eco in a G6? all it got was an odd sun roof and weird spoiler.
The issues at Pontiac were on and off since Delorean left. Engineering got their way at times with the 455 SD in the TA but got closed out of the GTO. Pontiac lost it’s soul when it lost its own V8. I understand why but after that point it started to become more of a restyled Chevy. I never felt that way back then but now in hind site many of the old time Pontiac collectors who did feel this way may have been right.
The Korean cars did not kill Pontiac as they really were not even a competitor of theirs. They never claim to be a performance car. GM was their own worst enemy here.
Scott love to dialogue with you, how I got this posted under chris’s post is confusing me… The Koreans as have other brands have had a profound impact on American Brands and yes GM as I stated made horrific decisions in maketing and product development of Pontiac vehicles. At the end of the day Pontiac was for many a way to access afordable sportyness, when that got deluted it confused the public, this allways came in waves too sometimes the line up was right on the there would be something like the Daawoo/LeMans or the G3 thrown into the mix…
I agree on the horrific product planning in many of the models.
I do not agree that the Koreans schooled anyone.
The Korean cars offer a stylish package that under cuts most others prices.
They still lack many quality and refinments as a penalty of price. They also are not any leader in world class performance in any of their segments.
Hyundia and Kia are a great value brand. A Chevy price with Buick like options in a stylish package.
Trust me on the quailty. I have friends at a dealer that fill me in on many of the issues. Sonata rust issues in the sub frame were delt with a hammer to knock the flakes off and then sprayed with wax. Not something I would want to see on my 3 year old car.
No, it is not called the Camaro. That car is extremely cool, but not even remotely practical. This car would actually for 4 full-sized people in comfort. Different kind of car.
In my mind, Pontiac is linked to Chevy. It would also be a drain on a Buick that needs to be and do something different.
I support a Chevy SRT-like sub brand for muscle that would include low cost GTO product thru Corvette. It could be called Holden, Pontiac or GTO brand.
Chevy needs to chase Toyota and Ford and lacks a real interest or need for speed
This isn’t a surprise to anyone who has been calling for Pontiac to return… Bob Lutz even stated (back before Coupe60 got official) that GM was evaluating Coupe60 for the GTO, in place of a Camaro-based Firebird.
All that is “new” is that some auto mag that scored an interview with Lutz recently got him to say it once again…
Powerful, angry, masculine and even very practical! It would have done fine.
The GTO would have been an ATS architecture car, as will be the next Camaro, maybe with a sedan companion.
It would have been a Zeta for this version but a Alpha was possible for a next gen after this one. But who knows if it would have gone that far.
Odd, that’s not what the vehicle line Chief Engineer, Liz Pilabosian told me on a manufacturing validation ride of the then new CTS in 2008 before I retired.
Oh they may have had the idea but it was coming anytime soon it would have been on Zeta as there Alpha was no where close to production even with out the Chapter 11 back in 08.
Back them GM could not pay attention let alone for a new platform. Why do you think the Camaro used the Zeta vs. a smaller lighter new platform that they would have rather had.
Camaro used Zeta because it was lower cost than Sigma, for example cancelled the fully developed Ultra V8 and deferred the wonderful 4.5L Diesel for the reasons you describe, no doubt.
I did know the plans GM had in 2008, being in a staff that was part of the advanced product planning department for GM Powertrain globally and having access to the future product plan.
In addition to Camaro and G8, We would have had Buicks and Chevrolet Zetas as well, btw. I assure you, Pontiac was to have an ATS stablemate.
… and there was no Zeta coupe in the plan. Of course, it is always possible that such a car was being discussed by the strategy board and had not made the plan before the financial crisis induced collapse.
Firstly, you misread–Holden based cars sold in the Middle East are pure profit. I was not speaking about sales in Australia.
Secondly, the head of Holden recently spoke about new tech transforming to fuel efficency of large cars. Devereaux was pointing out that sub compacts and midbsized cars continue to grow even while mph improves. He believes size will not matter in the near future.
I agree…you are free to disagree.
@Scott- I just read Lutz’ column in Road and Track- He said they had a full-size clay based on Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8- Zeta architecture. I stand corrected, though it wasn’t in the approved product plan, as I recall and wrote.
You beat me to it. I was just going to post this.
I was not trying to argue but I have seen and heard stated by Lutz and Settlemire differently.
No harm no foul and a thumbs up to you.
I just remember all the hub bub on this when it came around years ago and it was all Zeta at that time. Alpha was just a glimmer in Lutz’s eye.
Lutz was smart to line up Holden and Pontiac, and Saturn with Opel therefore making a unique line for each marque.
It seems only logical for Chevy to pick up future Holden projects like they have with SS/Caprice Cruzer. Australia is a tiny market not worthy of Holden-only cars but a GTO might fit well in Chevy’s efforts to putbout a rear wheel 20 grand car.
This will never happen and I expect GM to screw Holden, fall into 3ed place.
GM has every right to screw holden and I hope they do!
Holden’s large car range does well for GM in the Middle East which is pure profit so I hope GM isn’t dumb enough to screw the division.
Also, as fuel economy becomes easier in terms of new transmissions and powertrains, it will be highly possible for a boat larger than Impala to get Cruze-like mpg and Holden is good at big cars
Mr Marcus- That last idea is ludicrous, with all due respect. Mass will always make a bigger car burn more fuel than a small one. It is not at all easy, particularly while giving the performance customers want. Holden is great, and accounts for 3/10 of GM’s business, and sadly a much higher share of the company’s losses. It is not a profit center despite substantial Au government assistance, to set the record straight.
Not according the the current head of Holden who has talked about future cars becoming both lighter and powertrains more fuel efficient. Deveroix seems sold on the idea. It is pretty logical to think of large cars getting the same MPG as say Malibu by 2020.
Missed opportunity for what would/could of been new Monaro.
The money it would take to bring this car to market could be used to make the 5th gen Camaro better, or use that money on the next 6th gen Camaro!
Mr Ritter, this was shown about 5 years ago & never got the go a head (possibly due to GM’s financial difficulties or maybe because the coupe market is small & fashion/trend led. Or quite possibly both).
A new Monaro would be welcomed & I also feel rather than compete with Camaro it would expand the market as they both would appeal to different customers, whist also introducing additional customers to both models.
Mr Ritter is so right thank you! As for this thing or Pontiac, its gone like it should be and has no business coming back! Stop wasting our time talking about it! The fact that this was from 5 years ago or so doesn’t even matter what does matter is what people forget when you spend money to built two diff yet same cars to compete in the same segment! The problem with the firebird and Camaro was that they were so similar in terms of who bought them! Now if you told me that a Camaro would be built for the budget minded performance man or lady, but the Pontiac was made for a upscale super lux pony car like a benz then im ok with it!
These cars where gunning for the same people which did nothing but make GM put more money into the pony car segment and what for both cars ran close to the same numbers speed wise, and handled the same, and was fitted with similar interior!
What GM is doing now is the way to go, build a Camaro, and a ATS version off the same platform and maybe a buick version also would be fine!
Now you have all different cars, with different looks, possible different engines, with different levels of lux to spread the cost of the development!
So Pontiac please just go away and stay away!
I haven’t mentioned Pontiac.
Pontiac needed to go away and it did it has no use ever again!
Pontiac could have been kept if it became GM North America’s in house tuning brand like HSV and Opc/Vxr. While Chevy sells the SS, Pontiac could have been importing the HSV Gen-F GTS. Pontiac could have produced the Firebird again as an up scaled Camaro.
Upscale firebird? Nobody ever thought of a firebird as upscale or luxury! Stop trying to justify Pontiac as part of GM’s future!
Now if buick wanted to sell a car based on alpha then I’m all for it as long as they go after a different set of customers!
It needs to be placed between the Cadillac ats and the camaro!
Pontiac could never do that and comand that kind of money
I don’t know how to take that at all! Buick should not go down that road, let alone think about it!!!!! “Stop trying to justify Pontiac as part of GM’s future!” – I think there is a great chance now that GM is building bigger profits by the month and getting more and more out of government ownership that Pontiac will come back.
They should come out with models like the;
Grand Am (Comparable to Saab 9-3)
Grand Prix (Comparable to Chevrolet Malibu or Buick Regal) Redesign to resemble 97-08 models
Bonneville (Comparable to Chevrolet Impala or Cadillac XTS) Keep the GXP body with new interior improvements
Trans Am (Comparable to Chevrolet Camaro)
GTO (Comparable to Holden Commodore Coupe60)
G6 (Comparable to Chevrolet Malibu or Buick Lacrosse) Redesign it to look more like the original G6 Concept
G8 (Comparable to Chevrolet SS or Holden Sportwagon)
Torrent (Comparable to Saab 9-4X)
Now when I say comparable I don’t mean literally rebadging the cars, GM should take those comparable designs and even redesign those specifically for Pontiac, (kind’ve what GM did with the Equinox and Terrain. Acadia, Traverse, Enclave and so on).
GM should put these engines in Pontiacs;
ENV –
Hybrid Plug In / 2-Mode 2.2L TDI I4 185 HP / 365 TQ
SE –
1.1L Twin Turbo I3 176HP / 220 TQ HP SIDI
1.8L Turbo I4 246 HP / 234 TQ SIDI iVLC
GT –
2.5L I4 202 HP / 187 TQ iVLC
3.2L V6 271 HP / 252 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
SLE (Super Limited Edition) –
2.8L V6 215 HP / 198 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
3.4L Turbo V6 344 HP 337 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
GTP –
2.8L Turbo V6 290 HP / 284 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
3.8L SC I6 420 HP / 389 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
SSEi –
3.9L V6 362 HP / 321 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
4.4L Supercharged V8 471 HP / 447 TQ VVT AFM
GXP –
3.0L Supercharged V6 329 HP / 317 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
4.0L Turbo V6 449 HP / 422 TQ SIDI VVT AFM
5.0L Turbo V8 520 HP / 500 TQ VVT AFM
6.0L Turbo V8 613 HP / 576 TQ VVT AFM
All V8′s and V6′s have displacement on demand (V8′s shut off 4 cylinders while V6′s shut off 2). ECO buttons available with every 6 speed auto transmission.
Transmissions –
6 Speed Auto with TapShift / DSG / ECO Low Shift Points
7 Speed Auto with TapShift / DSG
8 Speed Auto with Tapshift / DSG
6 Speed Manual with SynchroRev Match
7 Speed Manual with SynchroRev Match
Pricing:
Grand Am Compact Sedan – $18,939
Grand Prix Mid-Size Sedan – $21,116
Bonneville Full-Size Sedan – $25,334
Trans Am Sport Coupe – $22,213 Sport Convertible – $24,847
GTO Sport Coupe – $26,755 Sport Convertible – $28,500
G6 Mid-Size Sedan – $24,441 Coupe – $22,257 Convertible – $26,865
G8 Sport Sedan – $34,748 Sport Wagon – $31,198
Torrent Premium CUV – $27,679
Platforms –
Grand Am – Delta Platform
Grand Prix – Sigma ll Platform
Bonneville – Epsilon ll
Trans Am – Alpha Platform
GTO – Alpha Platform
G6 – Alpha Platform
G8 – Sigma ll Platform
Torrent – Theta Premium Platform
Here’s my new and improved list! What’s your opinion of Pontiac based on this? What models do you see unnecessary? Would you buy a Pontiac listed here?
GM doesn’t need two pony cars at the same price, it’s like building a 2nd corvette for the same price with a Cadillac emblem on it!
GM has what it needs to compete a entry level brand chevy, mid luxury buick, luxury Cadillac!
There is no need for any other brand like Pontiac! Olds!
Hmmm
Hmm It looks like English but makes no sense what ever.
It’s because your list has too many redundancies. Allow me to boil away the fat with the required segments (that’s car classes; not price, powertrains, bodystyles, or factories):
City: none
Subcompact: Solstice, G3 (< you omitted this one)
Compact: G5, Vibe
Mid-size: Grand Am, Grand Prix, G6. GTO, Firebird TA, Torrent, Aztek
Large: Bonneville, G8
Full size: none
Remember, you are to ignore the price, powertrains, bodystyles, and factories and look at the segments each car occupies.
Notice something here? The gross segment overlaps? You have 7 mid size offerings that, historically, were on 7 different platforms. Not even "old GM" would allow that much of a mistakes to occur.
Furthermore, you're hanging far too much value on nameplate, as if something like that would be critical to a relaunch of Pontiac. The Aztek nameplate is too damaged to ever be used again, same with the Bonneville name (far too old and historically uncompeditive).
Here's something absent from your tired and boring list, the mandatory platforms.
City: G2 (SWB gamma)
Subcompact: G3 (LWB gamma)
Compact: G5 (mk2 delta)
Mid size: G6 (SWB mk2 Epsilon)
Large: G8 (LWB mk2 Epsilon)
Fullsize: none
Done and done. Bodystyles are simply adapted as needed (you don't make a full size coupe when there hasn't been a demand for them in over 20 years), and from having as few platforms as necessary. This keeps costs in check and prevents the needless waste of redundancy.
Oh, as for RWD, why not wait until something that supports it comes along from GM's engineering arm, rather than get together a bunch of dated RWD platforms from the last 15 years and hope that it'll all work out.
We'll work on a realistic price when you get back, something that doesn't support the lie of affordable performance.
Unless China or Europe wants these cars, they have no future. Dodge is dying because FIAT see no future no modern day glam muscle.
I would love Pontiac as a niche brand sold at Chevy dealers offering all American muscle with a design ethos aimed at Scion. The Opel GT could fit, replacing Vibe, as would the current SS, a low cost Alpha based RWD offering plus this supposed GTO. Maybe the GMC Granite could be crammed in.
Steve your statement is wrong on so many levels. Are you not aware that it was Fiat management that pushed for the continuation of the Viper and next gen RWD V8 LX cars? Fiat is ALL ABOUT American Muscle! Like I say repeatedly; Foreigners GET and UNDERSTAND traditional US values and expressions far better than the average American.
Its American marketers who were struggling with the Domestic auto brands place in the US auto market.
The US automakers fell off because – 1s: a lack of adjusting to obvious efficiency trends (oil embargos) then 2nd: fell off in quality, and finally 3rd: they completely forsake what they did well to ape and carbon copy (often poorly with no understanding or respect for why it worked) the foreign competition.
The US auto industry IS stabilizing and coming back. Funny how it’s riding the coat tails of traditional, uniquely American cars – like the Camaro, Full-sized pickups, well executed SUVs (crossovers) plus full-sized sedans and muscle/sports cars. Yes, there are more and better economy/alternative segment vehicles in the portfolio. But the profit margins are with the previously mentioned vehicles.
Viper was easy for FIAT given the companies stable of supercars. Serg didn’t build the car because he loves American muscle; instead, he saw Viper and SRT as potential global money makers. This is why the car is not a Dodge.
There is a huge difference between high end mucle verse volume excitment ‘muscle’ like Pontiac and Dodge. Dodge Avenger is NOT being replaced because the public isn’t buying. Dodge will be dead in one decade for the same reason.
I disagree that Detroit Alpha has been born again by low volume cars like Camaro. Detroit is thriving in large part because of European inspired Fords and globalized Caddys that feel more German than anything Americn. Ford gets this: see new global Mustang.
The era of faux muscle is over and they few remaining offerings are primarily purchased by baby boomers and a few red necks.
Inexpensive muscle cars must attract the youth demo and no one, including FIAT, is having luck here.
With all the rumors of a new Regal GNX going around why not make it a Buick… and call it a day
The GN/GNX is already in the works from the CTS 3rd gen. It’s meant to replace Lucerne and serve as Buick’s true premium full-size sedan.
A no-frills, non-luxury rocket ship is what the GTO can serve as, and GM can sell at a profit for those who don’t need the luxury, but want the horsepower.
That just what GM needs is a super fast car that will undercut a camaro! GM is going to be lining up for that if they did that camaro sales would go down to nothing
Let’s see sell a pony car for 35k or 22k? What would you rather sell if you were GM?
The GTO has never undercut the Camaro. It has always cost much more than the Camaro, but less than the GNX and comparable Cadillacs (today, the CTS).
Camaro -> GTO -> GNX -> CTS
That’s how the hierarchy has been, and should be today.
If GM were the only auto maker, and lived in a vacuum, one could argue that the GNX and/or CTS would be enough. Unfortunately for GM there are competitors that do offer powerful RWD coupes that aren’t pony cars… and are happy to take my business.
In a choice between the Camaro and the GNX, I’m likely to bolt from GM and chose either a Genesis Coupe or an entry-level SRT TTV6 Barracuda. And that’s before you factor in the potential for Nissan to water down a G-Coupe or GT-R for the masses, which they’re also considering.
Yes…GM needs the car provided it not be badged as a Chevy. The industry is so fragmented that we now need to stop looking at GM as a single company and pay more attention to the marques.
Some Caddy and Buick buyers look down on Camaro, see it as a plummer’s car. These people will look at say a Regal and here the company has a chance to make money off a car faster than Camaro.
Buick needs two expensive halo cars so that the company’s lower cost offerings will be taken Lexus serious.
The so called GN and GNX are in the works and the hints were they were a sedan. But with the Opel Show coupe coming it may indicate that Buick may see a coupe after all.
The real issue I have is the GN and GNX names do not fit any of the new cars coming. They will have too many doors they will not be all black and they will go left and right and stop unlike the car in the past that was a modern Muscle car.
I see issues with the name from the fans of the car and to me the new car deserves its own identity as it is its own cars.
Yeah…this is as dumb as Chevy SS. Outside of Reatta and Invicta, old Buick names bring back bad memories for Gen X and Boomers.
Anyway, it is time to line up Buick and Opel nameplates globally. (My sick fantacy is to see a global Opel, Vauxhall, Buick Bonneville)
Scott, my worry is that they will use the GN name for all versions of the car, including the lesser powered ones that will be necessary to help the car sell in large enough volumes. I’d like to see them use a new name for the lesser versions and save the GN name for the high-performance variant. They can also make that one only in black. That car is one of very few from the 80s that still looks good today. As for handling and braking, I will not complain if it gains those abilities.
On a bit of a side note, I was at a gigantic local outdoor car show yesterday, and while I don’t think I managed to see quite everything, I was sad that I didn’t see a GN or GNX. I did see everything from a 1934 Mercedes to a tuned current Camaro, though, over 4 hours of hiking around. What a great way to spend a summer day. 🙂
It is time for GM to use some original names for Buick and forget the old Muscle car rehashed names. The reality is the new performance cars are much more then the old cars and deserve their own names and not misrepresent the old names.
Right, because Verano, LaCrosse, Enclave, and Encore are so 1960s…
Regal is the only pre-21st Century nameplate in use domestically today. And, for the car, it fits the name quite well.
We could quibble about China’s Caprice-y Park Avenue… but I’d much rather see GM crate the car over here and put it up for sale instead. A GNX by any other name…
You completely miss the point
The Point is Buick is trying to become a completely different company to a completely new groups of buyers. Old names like Regal, Century, Skylark etc. all cars that bring back memories of so so cars of the 80’s even if some of these names were used on some great cars In the 50’s.
The issue with GN and GNX is they will not be used on cars that strictly represent what they were in the 80’s. This will mean little to the new customers and offend the ones that were fans of these cars.
Even the Name Riviera has to be on just the right car. An old name has some equity but it also has to satisfy the people who remember it and that is seldom easy if you are changing direction.
As for Buick there is no over here and over there anymore accept in limited cases. When watching Buicks direction you need to watch Opel, Buick China and USA to see their path. It already has ties but it will grow more tighter into a single unit with time. Each will tune to the market they are in but the bases for most will remain the same.
I expect a Sedan and possibly a coupe now that Opel has showed they are doing a show car. But I would no want it named GN or GNX unless they are all black but then I would not want them named all black either.
New cars, for a new era, for a new customer needs to have it’s own identity.
Buick has had a long history of using the old names over the years clean up to around 2004 but the problems were not with the new names the problems were with better but the best product. Now that we will have much better product the names will make a big difference.
Wow, so much cometary spawned from discussing a supposedly unloved and unneccesary brand.
As a hard core Pontica lover it’s encouraging and dissapointing at the same time. But Pontiac is dead and GM would do better by learning and appreciating the lessons from that loss and ensuring it doesn’t happen to the rest of the brands..