Bob Lutz has once again voiced concerns over Tesla’s strategy and overall business model, following his statements on the automotive company “bleeding cash” and facing an overall “trifecta of doom.”
This time, Lutz called out the Tesla’s latest production vehicle, the Model X, for possessing little sustainability in the long run.
“While [Tesla’s] car is excellent, the business has always been lousy. Now, it’s super lousy because the generic demand for electric vehicles is down. And here’s why this is going to kill Tesla: whether there’s consumer demand for electric vehicles out there or not, the major OEMs like Ford, GM, Toyota, Volkswagen…they have to build electric cars — a certain number — in order to satisfy the requirements in about half of the states.
Those have to be jammed into the marketplace, otherwise they can no longer sell SUVs and full-size pickups and the stuff they really make money on. That is going to generically depress the prices of electric vehicles,” he said in his latest CNBC interview.
The father of the Chevrolet Volt ultimately criticized the struggling business model finally stating, “Tesla’s business model is upside down…their costs have always been higher than their revenue – they always have to get more capital, then they burn through it.” His words come after the futuristic gullwing-style doors on the Model X have come under fire for not working properly.
Lutz remained pessimistic on the overall electric car industry in general, once again reiterating there is no way the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV will help General Motors turn a profit. Instead, it’s a strategy play to continue selling the gasoline-guzzling trucks and SUVs for high profit.
“Look at the new GM Chevy Bolt, which after federal incentives costs roughly $30,000. GM is not going to make money on that. But the majors are going to accept the losses on the electric vehicles as a necessary cost of doing business in order to sell the big gasoline stuff.”
Lutz isn’t the only nay-sayer when it comes to Tesla, though. Cadillac CMO, Uwe Ellinghaus, has previously stated he thinks the automaker’s competitive advantage is no longer. As more automakers join the EV field, electrification will simply become an option consumers may check off.
Are they right? Talk to us about the situation in the comment section below.
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Amid a legal battle with a GM supplier.
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Translation: We couldn't build it.
Real Translation: No one in the industry wants to build these on a production vehicle. Powered Articulated gullwings look amazing when they work, and I will give Tesla the benefit of the doubt that they will work when delivered. What about in 5 years? or 10, or 15?
received my sig model x two weeks ago.. love it!!! works great!! only thing i wish was different was power frunk. because when it auto perpendicular parks itself the frunk is where you will stow most of your groceries. thats the only thing.
At this point electric vehicles just aren't viable. I Occasionally travel between my home in AZ and Southern CA. If I drove a Tesla I'd have to overnight somewhere to charge up the batteries.
Not sure if you understand how the Superchargers work because you won't be spending the night anywhere...
Here is a map for ya!
https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger&name=us
Completely agree that their business model is not sound.
Ten years from now Tesla's are not going to be as special as they are today. An all electric driving range exceeding 400 miles will be the norm. The Bolt, available later this year, already can go over 200 miles on a single charge.
Tesla will have to offer technology that will make it better than the average all electric vehicle and that is going to take billions in capital investment which it will find more and more difficult to acquire especially when they continually do not turn a profit.
Cadillac's Uwe Ellinghaus has already stated to expect electrified versions of all its future models and other automakers, especially the luxury brands, will have their versions of hybrid or full electric models as well.
Add into all of that emerging technologies like fuel cell vehicles and you can see the difficult position Tesla is getting themselves into.
fuel cell? unless i can produce my own hydrogen using water electrolysis at home, i wouldnt but a fuelcell car. storing sunlight at home sounds like a safer and simpler proposition to me. buying a fuel cell vehicle is like buying those color printers you buy for cheap but that end up costing you a fortune to buy their ink. why would i want to pay someone for something the sun gives us for free?
as for tesla offering other technology besides electrification, hows this sound?
Performance: 0 to 60 under 4 sec
5-Star Safety Rating in all categories
OTA UX updates
OTA Auto Pilot fleet learning for improved performance
OTA Diagnostics and support via 800#
200+ Miles on single charge
Supercharging capable
Free Supercharging
In-house powertrain (not imported from korea's LG like GMs Bolt)
Auto-pilot
iOS/Android app remote monitoring/charging
cabin preconditioning via app
Made to Order (online designer)
AWD
Power doors/windows
Seating for 5+
Self Parallel Park
Self Perpendicular Park
Auto Summon
5,000 lbs Towing Capable
Emergency Brake Assist
Adaptive cruise control
seven passenger heated seats
lets be honest here. if i were the man responsible for killing the EV1, i would take issue with someone doing what i was unable or unwilling to do. GM cant even produce their own powertrain for the Bolt. They had their chance with the EV1, and literally threw it away.
i really cant take lutz seriously after that.
Yes fuel cells are a long way away but my point was that future tech (whatever that will be in the future) will require a great deal of capital investment and a small company like Tesla (26000 US sales in 2015) will have a difficult time keeping up.
As for the Model X starting at $132000, I agree that it has some impressive tech but the point is that none of the items you listed is ground breaking or can not be replicated by another luxury automaker like BMW, MB, Lexus or Cadillac.
Most of the features you highlighted above are already common place in cars costing $20K (emergency brake assist, parallel park assist, adaptive cruize +) and features like auto summon and semi-autonomous driving are already here on vehicles starting around the $50K range.
As for pure EV range, the Bolt will get over 200 miles on a charge for only around $40K. For $130K large I would expect better.
In another 5 to 6 years most manufacturers will have caught up to Tesla's advantage. I am paraphrasing but JdN said, 'electrification will just be a part of doing business' meaning it will not be special in the coming years.
I agree that GM could have done something better with the EV1 but the time was not right for that vehicle and even now full electrics are a tough sell.
I am not knocking Tesla. In their short time on the market they have certainly moved the full electric vehicle market forward and they are an American company that which is good for the economy but don't get it twisted, they have a tough road ahead to keep building on their momentum in the face of stiffer competition and mounting development costs for new models.
Good luck to them.
Bob Lutz is a very smart man and while this article calls him the father of the Chevy Volt, Lutz needs to remember that EV technology is continuing to grow and get better as one has to think a lot has changed in just the handful of years since Lutz left General Motors; one other thing for Lutz to think about is that Chevy's Bolt has the components for General Motors to build an electric CUV.. as take out the drivetrain of the new GMC Acadia and install the guts of the Bolt.
Electric cars are going to continue to suffer when the wold markets are awash in oil . It's anybodys guess just how long this will last . It's a good thing that automakers almost have to build them to comply with CAFE , so more R&D is spent making those vehicles more viable .
Way back in 2009 Cadillac come out with an electric SRX at the NAIAS . This was a plan to see what the market might want in their new 2010 SRX . I can see GM going all electric with the XT5 now that its lighter than the older model .
But just what is going to be the right time to bring it to market .
I'm not so sure. At $1.30/gallon, a 30mpg compact car is still twice as expensive to drive per mile as my EV. And that's BEFORE the cost of oil changes, air filters, spark plugs, fuel injectors, coolant, alternators, belts, fans, transmission issues, etc. etc...
I was skeptical at first too, but I'm now convinced that EV's are superior for everything but range.
Hey Dingus - Model X with it's "Falcon Wing" doors ( "gullwing doors don't have hinges that let them open 1" from the car next to them ) are already being shipped to waiting customers. Where have you been?
Plus, this article is inaccurate. There have been no "issues" with the doors. The story the author may be referring to is that Tesla sued the German engineering firm contracted to develop the unique rear passenger doors of Tesla's new CUV. The German firm produced doors that didn't match Tesla's stated requirements, forcing Tesla to engineer them in-house. The result was nearly a two year delay in the cars reaching customers. That's behind them now and the Model X is being mass-produced in the Fremont, CA factory , right next to the Model S.
Misinformation on the interwebs... Who'da'thunkit?
The point was by most market observers that the car did not need the doors. True at this point they have not had issues but many look to where there will be issues at some point a conventional door will never have.
Also they are slow is a legitimate issue. They added weight to the car because of the additional support needed.
Finally the car is heavier, more expensive and late to market because of them.
What the point is for most is did the vehicle really need a gimmick? If it is so good did they really need to do the doors. Could they have save weight, added ranged and lowered cost buy just doing a normal door that is easily accepted in this class?
The questioning by most is due to the wisdom of doing a door like this and the questions would have been asked of any brand out there.
Also we will see people who live in weather will not like these. Rain will come in as will snow. How many here already get snow in their seats with a door frame that wraps just a little into the roof> Show of hands 1-2-3-45 Ok I can see some here relate.
Now with the doors going do far into the roof the rain and snow will present an even worse issue outside California. Even some in California will feel it when the do get rain.
The simple fact was the doors in the big picture have been seen as a mistake. Now if warranty issues to arrive as odds are good they will it will present issues that Tesla really does not need. Any issue with this car will be under a magnifying glass and will present problems and the doors have the potential of making it famous for the wrong reasons if it does fail.
Either way the intro of this vehicle has done nothing for the stock in a Bear market and if anything may have done more damage than good for now. The market is not going to be easy on them and Elon may not be done buying up stock.
It is about time for him to start talking transportation tubes again to deflect from the stock price drop. Watch Yahoo as they will have a story this week again on it. Also he will be seeking government money for that program if he already has not gotten it by now.
Ferrari just introduced their GTC4Lusso, it has all-wheel drive and all-wheel steer; but Cadillac's CT6 will have this capability as well and it's a clear demonstration of how fast automotive technology is changing.
Well As we can see EV Car fans can be a little emotional and Tesla more so.
One really needs to look at this with true business sense to see where this is all going.
While we do have plenty of oil contrary to claims by some but regulations for EV cars, lower emissions and higher MPG will continue to drive them and Hybrids. This is a global issue not just American.
Because of this companies will continue to invest in both Hybrid and EV technology as they have no choice.
The EV market is a slow growth and it will take time to gain traction as prices still need to drop and charging stations need to continue to be built.
The real limiting factor for the EV is that to own one it is still a life style changer. In this day people order items from Amazon and expect in some places same day delivery few want to go and wait to charge a car for anywhere from an 45 min to 12 hours when you can top off your gas tank in 6-7 min. Also if you run out of gas you can just get a can and fill it up while a dead battery demands a tow. Yes people will run these dry as they do not want to take the time to plug them in like they should at times or they have no where to plug them in.
The fact remains you will have to change your habits and lifestyle if you own one of these cars. Some are very willing while most are not.
The other MFG will continue to make and build more and more EV and Hybrid cars that will get cheaper and as it does it will make Tesla just another MFG in a field of many other EV cars. Right now they are struggling to get the X in production and really screwed up by making it more complicated than needed. The door thing was a big mistake as it did not need a Gimmick. They are slow to open and in the rain the water comes in or winter the snow will fall in the seats. Not something many will find attractive. That is if they are are reliable there are still issues.
The 3 is expected to not be as cheap and may even be built in China. Tesla is not going to get anymore nearly free plants like Fremont and they will need it as they will need volume if they plan to get cheaper.
Musk also looks to where the government money is. This is why he did this car. Energy department money and Carbon Credit sales. His rockets are aiming for AIr Force Contracts that are in trouble of late with their landing issues. His battery plant with Energy department funds again. Musk is costing the tax payers a ton of money as do many in the Geen energy field.
Building a low volume car at $120.000 is not difficult. The S is a nice car but really has not broken any ground other than proving there is a market for some Luxury EV cars. That was unknown and it was Elons true find here.
In the long term things will get tougher and tougher for Tesla. Already Elon is buying up stock as the prices have fallen almost in half what they were. The Bear market is not kind to risky stocks and that is how he is seen right now. Tesla is far from a sure thing even now.
I get the feeling if Porsche gets their EV sedan on the market as shown it will do do much damage the S may falter. Elon had better have the 3 on line and making money but that is only a remote chance both will happen.
Even the big players will be years from profits. GM is showing this as they are thinking of selling the Volt technology. I suspect they have the next thing coming and if they sell the old stuff they can make money on this and the others may also break even or make a little GM has been one to two steps ahead of what is on the market working ahead. It will be interesting how fast they bring this stuff to market if they sell this technology.
Now everyone thinks making a CUV is a slam dunk. Well it is not that easy. First the Aero is a problem as drag of a taller vehicle i a real ranger killer. Weight is also a range killer. Also cost of say an XT5 would likely be more than what most would pay. This is why the Bolt is small and light. They will get there at some point but it will take time.
The X makes it as it is just a slightly taller S model under the body. It is much more car like than CUV like.
The keys to the future is a batter that charges even faster with out damage. Range that is the same as most cars in the 300-400 mile range. Cost that are similar to a Hybrid or ICE vehicle. Durability of 12 years with little to no cost and a way to sell these cars to recoup the purchase price when they are old. EV cars now used are like buying an old I4 Phone. Who wants old technology? Resale will be a real killer that few want to talk about.
Just look now at a Old Volt vs. a new Volt. The new car is worth the extra price to many and how much life is left in the old Volt will always be a question as not all owner charge as they should to prolong life.
There is a lot to think about here. Lutz for the most part is being honest and some folks just can't take the truth.
Scott must live in a legal marijuana state.
There is so much hyperbole, and such huge gobs of B.S. in that long post he wrote - I won't even take the time to counter every false, opinionated point he made ( there are A LOT of them! ). Hey Scott, try doing some friggin' homework before you bloviate!
Musk is not building the Hyperloop, he just conceptualized it. There is no problem with snow or rain intrusion inside the X due to Falcon Wing Doors. You obviously did zero homework before your rant - as the Model X has the aero drag of a 2nd gen Prius, and has no big range penalty for it's form factor.
Musk paid off his government loan for Tesla in half the time they allotted. He is not seeking any money from the government for anything you falsely accused him of. In fact, Space-X has a large contract with NASA for years to come for re-supplying the International Space Station.
Volt owners are some of the happiest car owners existing. GM plainly described how most of them use their cars, and not charging at home - is not one of them. Most Volt owners happily charge at home to avoid the gas station altogether. 8 miles of every 10 in Volts is driven on American-made electricity. Scott pontificates as if he doesn't realize the average American drives 40 miles or less each day. GM stated that, and several studies done by reliable firms have proven this out over the last 4 years. A Tesla with an electric range of 280+ miles has free Supercharging from Tesla and a large-and-growing network of Superchargers all over the USA and world. Depending on charge rate, most Tesla owners can get 80% charge in 1/2 hr. This is long enough on a road trip to grab a coffee and use the facilities.
Don't believe anything Scott3 says. Instead do your own FACT CHECK.ORG on this nutball. Maybe Scott1 or Scott2 got the brains, and Scott3 just talks out his ass on the computer all day.
You I see are a Elon zealot. These are the folks who like do the personal attacks because you have issues with the truth.
The Hyperloop will be built if he can sell it to the government and get the loans to build it. For now he uses it as a distraction every time Tesla has negative news and or one of his rockets crash. Note he started talking loop again now the stock took a second.
Have you tried the doors in a hard rain or with snow on them yet? It will come in even worse then what normal cars do now with the door wrapping into the roof. I had it happen tonight in a Malibu .Anyone who lives in a state with lots of rain or snow can verify this. If you fold the doors up and over what is to keep the weather out?
False Tesla like all the other automakers are not getting loans. They seek and get money from the energy department and other government agencies. If you would take off the rose colored glasses Elon is still on the government dole taking money and to be fair Ford, GM and others do it too. But at least they make money.
Yes he has the NASA deal if he can make his rockets work more than once, But Wall St is looking at the Air Force contracts he was counting on that now look to be in trouble. He needs more than NASA.
.On the Volt I have no issue as at least most people can live with this car as it does not change their daily habits and routine. It is a vehicle that most people could live with. Only the price has been an issue but that should improve with each model.
As for Tesla Superchargers they are fine if you live near one, Most of use do not. Also as the system grows and if you have more in your area it will take many more to serve people. Also at some point the free will wear off.
As for your half hour charge times for 80%. Most people do not even like stopping for more than a piss and 7 mins of gas on a trip. But as full of it as you are it may take you that long to do a number 2.
I hope the industry continues with the EV and it continues to improve. As of now these are not cars that suit everyone and it will be a little longer before they do. This is a slow growth segment and the improvements are coming but it will take time and investment. Things will speed up as more investment happens but we still need better batteries and other things yet to drive down cost and improve range and charge times.
Also we will see other things like infrastructure continue to improve but there again it will take more time.
I can see by the personal attacks you have here you are really one of those zealot types who like to over sell things and not be fully honest about Musk or EV cars today. You generally only fool your own as some of this is honest foolishness not intentional lies. For the most part you do more damage than good for the EV car segment by not being fully honest.
Even if I am not a Musk fan I hope Tesla does well as if they fail it would be a PR issue for all the other EV models. That is why it is important now to get all the other models out and going to prove that the segment is viable and should continue to be invested in.
But the future will remain a mix of Hybrids, ICE, Diesel EV and even some Fuel Cell cars. There is no one perfect fit for all here and it will take a mix of all of these for a good while.
Now James you can call me what ever you like to make yourself look creditable but I do not have to resort to that as I know most people know better than to believe all you post. Use a little confidence and honesty and you will find more credibility.
It's all good. There will always be naysayers...about everything. Ya gotta admit that Tesla forced the issue on the big boys. I'm just gonna watch and see where it all goes from here. My sister has an X on order. Can't wait to check it out.
Tesla forced nothing. They sell than half the amount of Camaro's GM makes alone and the Camaro is not even close to their top seller.
The new government regulations on emissions and MPG are what is forcing the issue. To Tesla's credit they did prove you can sell a more expensive EV car as a luxury car when no one else thought you could.
Now that that is know others will build these cars not because they are competing with Tesla but to meet regulations and with a higher priced luxury model they might even make money or break even.
It is not difficult to make money on high priced low volume cars but it is difficult to make a low price low volume EV car. Until Elon does this at a higher volume than what the S has sold for he has really done little. This is what Lutz is getting at.
The fact is Tesla as well as the EV segment will continue to grow but it will be a long and difficult path to profits for all accept in the higher priced cars.
I have always been a GM fan and a fan of Lutz. However, what Tesla has been doing has had me excited for years. Building a car company from scratch in this day and age is remarkable and will always be wrought with nay-sayers. I love GM's idea with the Bolt and follow any updates I can. Will I buy one? That depends on how soon the Tesla 3 comes to market. I am waiting to buy a car until one of these is available. If too many delays for the 3, then I will buy a Bolt.
The 3 will be superior in so many ways because of its lagacy. The Bolt is all new platform, no proven history of batteries or powertrain. Tesla's vastly superior customer service and ongoing OTA updates and research is a HUGE selling point for me.
I personally don't care about resale because I use my cars until I can't drive them anymore. I don't trade in cars until they are all payed for. Usually many years after that. People who trade in every 3 to 4 years or lease their vehicles probably wouldn't be interested in electric vehicles anyways. (To many variables in price, end of lease value, charging technology, battery life)
I would love to be able to go 200 miles per charge because I rarely drive more than 75 miles in a round trip on any given day. Tesla has a charging station a few miles from my work so I could charge up before I head home for free. If I need to go on a longer trip I could map out charging stations via Tesla's mapping system/GPS or take one of my other ICE vehicles. How many American families only have one car these days?
Bottom line...Electric cars have a place in this guy's driveway. As do my fuel efficient small car, family hauling suv, and my work truck. I am excited about what the future brings for driving. So happens to be the only thing I am excited about the future for my children the way things in this world are going. So I truly hope manufacturers keep on developing electric vehicles to get better range, more efficiency and longer lasting batteries, while still making them a blast to drive. In the mean time, we will keep working on a way to recycle or reuse spent battery packs and greener ways to produce the power we need to run these cars.