In 2011, Cadillac debuted the undeniably handsome Ciel concept at the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, a full-size convertible coupe paying homage to the cars that helped make Cadillac famous. Then two years later they pulled the wraps off of the sharp Elmiraj concept, an even more handsome full-size personal coupe which hinted at the future of Cadillac’s ‘Art and Science’ design philosophy. It turns out Cadillac was trying to tell us something all along, mainly that its full-size Mercedes-Benz S-Class competitor is on the way and will debut at the 2015 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, according to the latest reports.
Cadillac confirmed to Top Gear its range-topping full-size sedan, which will possibly and/or likely be called LTS, will break cover at next year’s Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance. The automaker is keeping extremely tight-lipped about the LTS, but surprisingly did reveal a few details at Pebble Beach.
TG says the car’s styling will be “locked somewhere between the CTS and the Elmiraj,” and that it will have a mixed-material construction rather than an exclusively aluminium frame like Jaguar or Audi. It will also be the first car to sit on General Motors’ new full-size Omega platform and will receive power from either a twin turbocharged V6 or twin turbocharged V8 engine.
Our hopes are high for the LTS, and if it ends up looking anything like the Elmiraj or Ciel, we won’t be disappointed. But we should point out that it was previously reported that the LTS would show itself in New York, though Pebble Beach, with all of its multi-million dollar machines gracing the green, might be more fitting.
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Wait a second. Wasn't it just last week that a supposed "Cadillac insider" said this was going to be unveiled at the New York Auto show?
And great, our worst fears confirmed. Sounds like it's just going to be a stretched CTS. They had a show stopper with the Elmiraj, and now, once again, the bean counters water it down.
Good luck going up against the new S class with basically a long wheelbase CTS. Now I hope this fails
With sales slumping they keep bringing new models? Why not make an extended CTS with a CTS-E moniker instead of creating a whole new model? BMW and Mercedes have brought out new models over decades and their current lineup is the result. Cadillac seems to be trying to play catchup and bringing out competitors for every BMW series or Mercedes class instead of focusing on their core cars; CTS and ATS. They have world class cars that have the potential of taking over their competitors. Why wouldnt they just keep improving those cars until they beat their German competitors, then move on to a higher or lower class to try take more sales. Divide and Conquer Cadillac.
Well if the piss and moan club has any ideas how a car is to be built any faster you had better call GM.
The wait will be to he benefit to the car vs. just rushing it out for the sake of having on the market one year sooner. The fact is this is a new platform and it take time and man power to get it right so the delay is not a surprise nor is it unexpected to those who understand the industry.
Now if you want it this fall they could have easily just did an extended wheel base CTS but the fact is they did not go that route.
The fact is also that show cars are what? SHOW CARS and not always producible in show from nor in some cases would you want one in show form. It takes time to sort this stuff out and to solve issues that economically are unfeasible.
While the Elmriage is a wonderful car it was a show car. The Omega has been in the work while the Elmirage was being done. GM has been working to find a way to make the Omega shorter to accommodate a coupe as close as they can get to this car. The key is it has to use the same platform as the LTS so they have been working on it.
Building cars is not as easy as many on the web would like it to be and building a great car is even more challenging.
While the bean counters are not always popular they are also the equaling agent many times that keeps the company afloat. Bob Lutz points out in his writing that they can be a pain but they are a necessary evil to keep engineers and car guys from running company into the ground. This is a team effort and the Bean Counters are only a part of that team.
The bottom line is if they can take the next year and build the best car in class I will gladly wait.
How many times we have seen GM in the past rush things to the point the whole car fails due to not doing right the first time?
Scott3,
I assume I'm the piss and moan club member you're referring to. A couple of points:
In my original post I never bemoaned the fact they are taking too long to come out with the car. I merely pointed out that it was originally reported the LTS would be unveiled in New York. I agree, I'm willing to wait as long as it takes if it means Cadillac comes out with a stellar product.
I also never said they should build EXACTLY the Elmiraj show car. I just think it should b as close to that in production as possible. Obviously certain show car elements wouldn't make it to the final product, ie small sliver side mirrors, no door handles, no bumpers, uncomfortable looking show seats etc.
But this most recent article sounds like they're just gonna take a CTS, stretch it, and throw in the odd "Elmiraj inspired styling cue" and call it a day. And if that's the case, they have no excuse for taking this long. If they are gonna take that easy way out, then they should have easily been able to accomplish what you suggested and release it this fall.
I don't want to see a repeat of the XLR or Allante again either. This should be a bona died class leader. But what scares me is that not only are they taking their sweet time this time, it is also starting to sound like it too will be a half baked product, which only adds insult to injury
Not really I just expect many who will bemoan that the car is not here this year without putting the reality of building a car into perspective.
I expect more complaints that it will not be in New York or Detroit.
The fact is they are not going to just stretch a CTS as you imply. From What I have seen they are looking at up scaling the CTS design to a larger platform. There is a big different there.
Note while doing this they have to move the hard points and the major locations of the platform but they may use similar geometry and design to accomplish this.
Now weather this was meant for you or not you decide for yourself. You are not the only one who will complain.
I would recommend having more info on this car before you start going off on it just being an enlarged CTS. You may just be surprised how much different the LTS will be in the end than the CTS.
For your info you just lit the match but the post was for where this thread was going to go with more than just you. I just wanted to get a little reality in before it took off in the wrong direction.
For your information GM has had issues with creating the Omega for the LTS due to the prospects of how to spread the cost out to make it profitable. Then the Elmirage coupe was not really in mind when they started the Omega. Now that they are looking to do it they are having issues with wheel base requirements for the Coupe. They would like to keep the proportions similar but that has been an issue. That is based on reports that have leaked out.
As of now that is all we have to go by.
Also you have to take in to account that Mark Reuss has delayed more than one car to make sure they get the extra work to make them right out of the gate.
While we do not know a lot of info that is confirmed I think it will be very safe to say it is not just going to longer CTS. Sharing design basics is not the same as elongating a existing platform.
GM really has a good design in the Alpha and a lot of the designs can be reused in a new platform to great effect.
Now I can not promise this car will be top dog but it will be in the hunt when I arrives. This segment changed fast and often so it is hard to say where Benz and BMW will be but GM will be in a respectable position.
Note said club and clubs are more than just one person.
Scott3,
Ok I should have been more clear. I don't really mean I think they're going to literally just stretch a CTS to make their flagship sedan, but I mean to say it sounds like it will look incredibly similar, which I think is a bad idea. If this car is going to be a legitimate threat and steal away potential BMW and Mercedes buyers, it is going to have to be a groundbreaking, hearstopping design, which is why the Elmiraj was so great.
You're basically confirming what I was saying, just in better terms. You're using phrases like: "up scaling the CTS design to a larger platform", and "GM really has a good design in the Alpha and a lot of the designs can be reused in a new platform to great effect." That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I didn't mean to convey I think it will literally be a longer CTS, I mean to say it will basically be a CTS on a larger platform. The CTS is a great design, but for a $50,000 car. It does not covey well to a $100,000+ flagship halo sedan.
So basically you're further confirming my fear. Believe me, I have been a long time follower of this platform's development, and I was hoping for a groundbreaking design to top such a high potential RWD platform. Instead, it sounds like, as you worded it, they will just "up scaling the CTS design to a larger platform", which is a polite way of saying, lets take the CTS design, make it bigger, drop in a bigger engine, and charge S class money for it.
That ain't gonna fly in the $100,000 market.
Also, I did note that said club and clubs are more than just one person. That's why I referred to myself as a piss and moan club MEMBER.
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Let me clarify this better based on reports I have seen.
The Alpha platform is what may be patterned to make an upscale Omega. It will not be an Alpha but it will carry many of the geometry of the Alpha on a larger scale. I am talking only platform.
As for the car styling it will be pretty much a Elmirage like nose with a little more ATS and CTS tail.
With more sheet metal to work with they can take more liberties.
As for ground a great looking car it will be as in ground breaking you need to be realistic. You can't get too crazy here as this is a sedan.
If the CTS and LTS are next to each other you will see the difference right away. It will not be like the ATS and CTS is now where from a distance and the DRL off you have to really look to tell.
A club can have many members not clubs having a member. The Eagles are a club and have many members. That is how it normally is understood and how I meant it. . I will let you sort that out for yourself as if I meant you and only you I would have said that's a fact Jack!
The real key to this car is a some very special accommodations and the engine. These need to be something you can't get in a CTS. These are powerful and comfortable cars in this class and not a sport sedan. What is inside will matter the most.
Lets let the Camo fall off before we get too wound up on this. Too many people {I mean groups} get all worked up before they have even seen a car uncovered let alone in person before flipping out over what it is or is not. Let them finish the car and then we can fully judge. I think we can agree this is the intelligent path.
If anybody ever paid attention to cadillac you would already know that cadillac was releasing the production flagship at pebble beach.......they have said the "trilogy" of cars coming to pebble will show case the Journey (ciel), the Drive (Elmiraj), and the Arrival (*hint hint : production flagship)........and it should look like a CTS....big grille, vertical lights, tailfins, etc........lets just hope the interior is up to snuff.....I hope they didnt just throw CUE in there and hope everything is going to be fine....
"tailfins"? Seriously? In a 2015 production car?
I do not think it will be a great car
I know it will be a great car
Mark Reuss, above all, is a man passionate about cars; and No will leave this a bad car
To me glad that I had the Elmiraj features, combined leather interior; aluminum; And Ram of the CUE Sistem enhanced
And much, much equipment
Also a lot of publicity, a Corvette have given much publicity and is selling wonderful with this Cadillac has to be the same
Regards from Spain
The LTS is going to be the Halo car for GM. The best of the company , so if it takes a few more weeks in the development stage , fine . This car isn't going to make money for GM its a niche car , not for the masses . That is what Chevy is for .
And yes Grawdaddy , you will probably see fibor-optic tailfins , they are on all of Cadillacs cars .
Has anyone but me , seen the new commercial for Cadillac with the dancing robots , noticed the exclusion of the XTS !
I keep reading about stretching the CTS and getting rid of the XTS . !? And that the XTS was just a replacement for the sedan deville until the LTS was ready .
I know of the vertical tailights that Cadillac employs and has used for many decades now. Vestigial remains of the tailfins, but they aren't tailfins.
lance.b would seem to think that actual tailfins, circa 1950, are coming back. I would hope not, as the LTS' public image doesn't need a black eye right out of the gate. I can't see any reason why a $80K+ full size car would have them, nor anyone who would actually want them on a car in 2015.
I have no real problems with the vertical tailights as they are vestigial at best. But tailfins belong in the space age, and the space age ended over 50 years ago.
No other car in the full-size luxury segment has them. That fact alone should tell everyone that tailfins are forever out of style, and have no place on the LTS.