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This is why, personally, I won’t miss the Pontiac we knew over the last 5-10 years. They had some terrible cars, some of which represented a large amount of the brand’s sales volume like G3, G5, Vibe, and Torrent.
The only decent car was the G6 and the only great cars were the Solstice and G8.
No reason why the latter two can’t be replicated as Chevys.
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That doesn’t really matter, @dontbelate. As you know, GM sees no problem rebadging vehicles across continents or countries. The Holden Statesman/Caprice is sold as the Chevy Caprice (PPV) in the States and as a Buick in China and in the Middle East. As long as the vehicle isn’t available in the same country, rebadging is fine.
The real reason why the G8 hasn’t come across is due to the future of the Zeta architecture. Its future, so to speak, is up in the air.
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@PontiacRulz In that case, you should check out FordAuthority.com 😀
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First off @ yabadabadoo. I think making four separate forum discussions asking to stop discussion of Pontiac is having the opposite effect. 😉
@ Alex. That sucks to hear about the Zeta uncertainty. Any word if a new RWD layout is in the cards for a sedan?
@ PontiacRulz. I hope you’re not considering avoiding GM vehicles based on the decisions of corporate executives. Personally, I look at it this way. Who was the CEO in charge when Pontiac was shutdown? Fritz Henderson. He’s not with GM anymore. Looking at it more broadly – who is most responsible for the demise of Pontiac? IMHO, it was James McDonald, who was CEO from ’81 to ’87. Even before becoming CEO, he pushed/forced the idea of badge engineering upon GM. He took sharing components too far until he destroyed brand identity. (The horrible body cladding also began during his tenure.) THAT, in my opinion, is what killed Pontiac. The hit that BOP took severely hampered their marketability. GM buried Olds & Pontiac and focused on Buick because the profit margin was there for Buick. If Pontiac could have commanded a good profit margin, they would still be with us, but the damage inflicted by James McDonald was long lasting and far reaching in hurting the reputation Pontiac had established. That’s one side of it.
Here is another side on why I am still giving GM a chance. Where are the people who DESIGNED and BUILT the Pontiacs you loved? As far as your 2000 GP and your grandfather’s ’04 GTP, I am guessing that many of the people involved in the styling, engineering and manufacturing are still with GM. From my understanding, there weren’t many layoffs when Pontiac was buried. I can only guess that they were absorbed into Chevy and Buick. Personally, I’m looking for the passion and spirit of Pontiac to be carried on through those people into some Chevy (and Buick) designs – even if the name is not there. That’s just my personal feelings on that. I haven’t decided what I’ll replace my 2001 GP with yet, but I’ll be looking to GM first, then to Ford and possibly Dodge (if they demonstrate improved build quality and customer service.) Whatever you choose, I hope you don’t base your choice on trying to punish someone who isn’t with GM any longer. -
@Brian_E Henderson was just a temporary pawn in the migration towards Whitacre and Akerson, both of whom were/are temporary as well.
That said, I would add Roger Smith to the list of execs whose decisions lead to the demise of Pontiac. Smith, in fact, was the man responsible for taking autonomy away from the brands and “centralizing” engineering from Chevy, Caddy, Pontiac, etc. to “GM Engineering.” The same goes for design.
I still hope for the day that GM decentralizes engineering and design. There are certain functions that should be centralized (accounting, logistics, etc.) but others shouldn’t.
@PontiacRulz Punishing GM execs by not buying a best-in-class GM product (like a Cruze) isn’t punishing anyone except for yourself. 😀 -
@Alex. Agreed on Fritz and Roger. And a correction on my post; McDonald was “President” of GM. Roger Smith was the CEO during that dark time. I give both of them the blame for steering GM into red financial waters.
How is Engineering and Design set-up currently? I assumed each brand had their own group with corporate oversight to ensure synergy and reduce internal competition.
Definitely makes sense to me to have separate groups focused on their brand, their mission, and their goals instead of a “jack of all trades” approach. -
Currently, engineering and design are centralized. In fact, not Chevy, GMC, Caddy, nor Buick actually employ anyone.
There are research, engineering and design teams assigned to a project. Usually, the project revolves around a platform or vehicle size. Once the project is complete, some stay on to oversee updates while most get moved to work on another assignment. And the cycle repeats. This is the case with U.S./North American operations.
Then there’s GM Holden and GM Europe, who also contribute and sometimes oversee entire projects. For instance, the Cruze hatch was headed up by Holden. GM China/PATAC is another recent upstart to join the global GM engineering & design ranks.
GM needs to create different engineering and design teams, at the least, for its different brands. At least do what Toyota does with Lexus — whereby Toyota and Lexus co-engineer platforms and powertrains up to a certain point. Once their views begin to diverge, each team takes the current result in house and modifies or develops it further from there. Lexus has its own design house and, recently, engineering team. This is a very cost-effective and efficient solution that allows for the creation of different vehicles while sharing some components and engineering resources.
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Given GM’s global nature (which I often focus on the N.A. aspect), centralizing makes even less sense. The same goals often don’t translate into different countries/cultures. I would think that limiting the focus to a single project would limit a longer term outlook and vision. Having people dedicated to a brand or even just a model would drive both evolutionary steps and smaller refining steps better than throwing in new people everytime a new project comes along.
Hope GM gets it straightened out there. Thanks for the info! -
Yea I always heard that Roger Smith was really the one to screw things up. He created the Saturn brand also, which should have never been created. Also when they changed to “GM engineering” like Alex mentioned, it really put Pontiac in a bad spot starting at that point. My whole thing is that I’ve grown up around Pontiacs and the brand means something to me. I grew up with my Gramps talking about how cool Pontiacs are. I look up to him a lot so I guess Pontiac is something that makes me think of my best bud, my Grandpa. It’s hard to say good bye to the brand but times change I guess 🙁
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PontiacRulz. I know where you’re coming from. My dad grew up on Pontiacs thanks to his dad. It is something that begins to define you. Being gearheads, we love the old Pontiac motors. They build some awesome torque. (I once shelled a beefed up 700R4 transmission at about 100MPH on the 3-4 upshift – twisted the input shaft in three places.) I will always have awesome memories of hotrodding and driving our old muscle cars. Gonna do a Power tour eventually. Even though Pontiac is dead to GM, nothing stops us from enjoying the great cars they did build. If you haven’t, get involved in a local Pontiac club, if there’s one around your area. If not, start one! 😉
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Pontiac was heading the right direction on the last years; just to get the plug pulled by the bean counters that have no clue on how to build a desirable car. They had at least 2 unique cars that I was looking to buy. One is the G8 that I own a GT and the other is the Solstice that I am still looking for one that is not beat to death. Other than that GM has nothing to offer to me and I am not buying a Truck either. Dodge is looking more appealing each time. My next new car might be a new Challenger; do not know yet… maybe a off shore, BMW perhaps? One thing for sure, no rice burners.
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The Solstice never brought GM a dollar. It, and all the other Kappa’s were red ink right from the start.
As for the G8, Pontiac was unsustianable on it’s sales alone. That’s why there were rebadges of Aveo’s, Cobalt’s, Malibu’s, Equinox’s, and a Toyota Matrix JUST to make Pontiac appealing to the masses.
Weather you like it or not, the G8 was rountinely outsold by the G5. You may have never been the in the market for the G5, but thousands of others were.
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