- This topic has 37 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 7 months ago by
Vic1212.
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June 11, 2012 at 3:13 pm #38291
Vic1212
ParticipantI saw the comparison, the Cruze has about the second highest FE than the comparison but really being second???? http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1208_40_mpg_compact_sedan_comparison/elantra_3_jetta_specifications.html
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June 11, 2012 at 6:39 pm #40143
Alex Luft
KeymasterSo a car that was first brought to market in 2008 gets second place in a shootout, second only to a car that debuted last year… and the reason for its 2nd place finish was that the Eco’s auto wasn’t as good as the manual (BS reason in my book). And then there’s the Cruze’s technologically archaic 1.4T engine…
Anyway, my point is that 2nd place in a shootout among newer cars does not make it seem at all that the Cruze is a bad car. In fact, it makes it a solid choice and makes me wonder what’s possible with a better engine, one that’s direct injected, for instance.
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June 11, 2012 at 8:23 pm #40144
Vic1212
ParticipantI would of put the Cruze in first. At first when I saw this article I literraly thought the Cruze was going to be dead last. Because at CR that’s how the Cruze Eco is comparing to the Focus and the Civic HF. CR drove the Cruze and avg about 27 and Focus north of 30 and Civic north of 35 mpg. But this is what I’m always wondering though, how come the auto version of the Eco is about the same FE as the non Eco???
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June 15, 2012 at 5:44 am #40176
RjION
ParticipantI dunno ………… I think the CRUZE is great for most people. If I could get 190hp CRUZE it would be great for me.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/underrated-cars-of-2012.html
Chevrolet Cruze
The Chevrolet Cruze was named “Best Compact Car for the Money” by U.S. News and World Report. It also won the “2012 Top Safety Pick” award from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and a 5-Star Overall Vehicle Score from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
“Chevrolet doesn’t have a long history of producing excellent small cars, but the Chevrolet Cruze is among the top scoring cars in the compact sedan category,” Brauer said. “In fact, it’s better rated than longstanding stalwarts like the Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Volkswagen Jetta.”
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June 15, 2012 at 5:28 pm #40186
RjION
ParticipantWhat ………….. I don’t get an argument from anyone?
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June 15, 2012 at 5:30 pm #40187
Alex Luft
KeymasterYou want one? What you said is fairly factual and non-debatable. :)>-
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June 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm #40188
RjION
ParticipantDamn, I come to expect an argument from everything I say.
Had I said “Chevrolet or GM doesn’t have a long history of producing excellent small cars. The war would have been on….
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June 15, 2012 at 6:22 pm #40189
Alex Luft
KeymasterThat would have been a fact as well by me.
But at that point, do you count Opels? Because they’ve been making some of the best small cars in the world.
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June 15, 2012 at 7:19 pm #40192
RjION
ParticipantOpel has not really been making very good or evan good small cars till the Delta time frame. GM had to do something as everything was slipping away. Now they are on track in North America. Missing the boat on hp to weight in most cases but the cars are so much better.
202hp for the ATS, what does it tip the scale at? Could be a decent non turbo car. Why no shifter for the 2.5L?
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June 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm #40195
Alex Luft
Keymaster“Opel has not really been making very good or evan good small cars till the Delta time frame.” Now you’ve got yourself an argument!
Starting with the Astra G in the late 90s, Opel has been making class-leading compacts. The Delta was purely a European effort back then, so GM didn’t “do” anything to stop anything from “slipping away”. I had the pleasure of experiencing the 2000 Astra and it left a very favorable impression on my self and the owner. Them’s the facts.
All we know about the ATS’ weight is that it will be under 3,400 lbs… and we also know that you want a more powerful Cruze. No need to drag the ATS into this.
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June 15, 2012 at 7:36 pm #40196
RjION
ParticipantThe ATS looks good ……….. could be a keeper even as base rig.
The Delta brought GM from the grave when it comes to small cars. Opel in Europe is still in trouble of going down the tubes. GM still owns Opel has since the roaring 20’s. GM damn near slipped away worldwide. Thems the facts. -
June 15, 2012 at 7:43 pm #40198
Alex Luft
Keymaster“The Delta brought GM from the grave when it comes to small cars.”
Absolutely. But that’s not to say that Opel didn’t make good compacts before the Delta, as I just explained in reference to the Astra G.
Ironically, Delta was engineered by Opel. In Europe. They weren’t just the project lead on it, they literally did all the work.
Opel’s financials are an entirely different subject and are way beyond the scope of this thread. Why are you bringing them up?
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June 15, 2012 at 7:51 pm #40199
RjION
ParticipantWhat Opel did or didn’t get paid for is another subject. Yet GM as a whole was going down the tubes and the Astra G did nothing to slow that down. In my book Opel just as the rest of GM made lets get by small cars.
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June 15, 2012 at 8:33 pm #40202
Alex Luft
KeymasterWho is talking about getting paid for anything?
I’m simply stating that it was Opel that developed the Delta through and through. So whether they made good small cars or not before that, they’re still the ones that engineered one of the best compact platforms in the world.
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June 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm #40207
Vic1212
ParticipantExcept for Cobalt (Save it for Cobalt SS)
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June 16, 2012 at 2:51 pm #40211
RjION
ParticipantYes the delta is from Opel a division of General Motors … I think most of the people on this forum know that.
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June 18, 2012 at 3:41 pm #40215
Vic1212
ParticipantThe same with Epsilon
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June 19, 2012 at 2:29 pm #40221
RjION
ParticipantWow the education you guys provide. Did all of this just come to light in the last few days?
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June 19, 2012 at 6:37 pm #40222
Alex Luft
Keymaster@RJION And the sarcasm you provide is beyond stellar.
The entire discussion surrounding Opel started with this statement from you, which is not accurate:
“Opel has not really been making very good or evan good small cars till the Delta time frame.”
As I already mentioned, the Astra G was a class-leading Opel compact before the Delta time frame. So have you ever drive an Astra G… or are you just spewing smoke out of your derriere?
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June 20, 2012 at 5:36 pm #40229
RjION
ParticipantI stand by by statement that Opels were not steller until the Delta platform, as I already mentioned…..sarcasm aside?
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June 20, 2012 at 6:25 pm #40230
Alex Luft
KeymasterYet there is a slight, if not prodigious, difference between not making “stellar” cars and making cars that are “not good”.
Notice the difference:
Your initial statement: “Opel has not really been making very good or evan good small cars till the Delta time frame.”
And your most recent one: “Opels were not steller'”…
Seeing by your lack of direct reply that you’ve never laid hand on a pre-Delta Opel, I’m just going to stop here, as none of this even remotely relates to the original topic.
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June 20, 2012 at 8:26 pm #40240
Vic1212
ParticipantOh this is making me go headache……
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June 22, 2012 at 7:45 pm #40251
RjION
ParticipantOpel has not really been making very good or evan good small cars till the Delta time frame. Yep thats it and thats the truth of the matter.
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June 22, 2012 at 7:47 pm #40252
Alex Luft
KeymasterDo you have personal experience with Opels before Delta?
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June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm #40254
RjION
ParticipantYes ………………….. many. When I go back home they are on many street corners, and many family members still drive pre delta small GM cars. While most have switched to Deltas or new Fords. Cheap transport is all Opel had to offer.
PS: It’s not beacause GM could not offer outstanding small cars, it’s because they could not make money doing so.
And the beat goes on and the beat goes on and on and on
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June 23, 2012 at 10:22 am #40255
RjION
ParticipantSeeing you brought all of this up Alex I’ll let you be the one to end it.
Remember thats all I said (“What ………….. I don’t get an argument from anyone? “) and that set you off.
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June 24, 2012 at 12:19 am #40262
Alex Luft
KeymasterNo, what “set me off” was your inaccurate opinion that Opel didn’t make good small cars before the Delta architecture.
Furthermore, it’s not a matter of “ending it” — it’s a matter of keeping one’s arguments valid and accurate. I happen to have some close experiences with Opels before Delta or GM’s globalization strategy took place — and therefore can say that you are way off your rocker in discussing Opel vehicles before the Delta architecture. That’s all we’ve been helplessly discussing.
Separately, what are you insinuating with the Cruze recall?
PS: there is much more definite and overall more informative aspects about the recall right here:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/06/second-chevy-cruze-recall-is-smaller-involves-rear-end-welds/and
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/06/gm-recalls-413418-chevrolet-cruze-sedans/
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June 24, 2012 at 3:37 pm #40264
RjION
ParticipantThought you were going to end it …………. ? Oh and can you do anything to speed up the site? It’s the slowest loading site I use. Slowest bar far……..
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June 25, 2012 at 10:24 pm #40271
Vic1212
Participantalright this is getting ridiculous.
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June 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm #40276
RjION
ParticipantVic1212 June 25 Permalink alright this is getting ridiculous.
What how slow the site is?
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June 26, 2012 at 4:51 pm #40277
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June 26, 2012 at 4:55 pm #40278
RjION
ParticipantI’m not worried, I figured you have had others let you know whats up.
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June 26, 2012 at 4:56 pm #40279
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June 26, 2012 at 9:36 pm #40281
Vic1212
Participantexactly!!^^
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June 28, 2012 at 10:00 am #40287
RjION
ParticipantWhats sad is …. what ever GM comes out with you guys praise it. I point up what I like and don’t like. Seems the only time anyone replies to anything I have to say is when it’s about what I don’t like. I don’t see you guys agree over and over with the the things I do like. As far as the site……….it’s slow to load whats to argue about?
I dunno ………… I think the CRUZE is great for most people. If I could get 190hp CRUZE it would be great for me.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/underrated-cars-of-2012.html
Chevrolet Cruze
The Chevrolet Cruze was named “Best Compact Car for the Money” by U.S. News and World Report. It also won the “2012 Top Safety Pick” award from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and a 5-Star Overall Vehicle Score from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
“Chevrolet doesn’t have a long history of producing excellent small cars, but the Chevrolet Cruze is among the top scoring cars in the compact sedan category,” Brauer said. “In fact, it’s better rated than longstanding stalwarts like the Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Volkswagen Jetta.”
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June 28, 2012 at 10:35 am #40288
Vic1212
ParticipantThat’s based on Yahoo. But if based on Enthusiasts it’s a mixed bag of review
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June 29, 2012 at 5:19 am #40293
RjION
ParticipantWooooooooosch
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July 3, 2012 at 10:22 am #40302
Vic1212
Participantbut then really what makes the Focus better than the Cruze?? Looking at the sales of both the Cruze and the Focus both sales are down but Focus is selling at 20k cars and Cruze only sold 18k?
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