U.S. GM Sales Jump 41 Percent In Fourth Quarter 2022

Comments

1. 

   Delvis

   Do you have contacts in GM to dig into the Inventory number of 410k units? What portion of that number was in-transit? Additionally, does that number include 2022 models that have been built but remain in storage waiting on parts?

   Finally, Hummer and Lyriq sales are minimal, especially compared to what GMA has been reporting as produced. Find out what’s holding up those models as the they should have immediate buyers. Suggests they are missing parts and are sitting in storage as well.
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2. 

   How is GM buildings thousands of ultium vehicles allegedly but barely existent deliveries/sales ?
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   1. 

      I completely don’t understand what’s going on with the Ultium vehicles. According to GMA, they had built 3715 Lyriqs through October, which seems low to begin with for a vehicle that’s supposedly sold out. Considering they built 2000 of those in October alone, I can’t see how they couldn’t have produced less than another 5000-6000 in the remaining three months of the year. Where are they? How did they only deliver only 122 all year? Same story with the Hummer. This is turning into a joke fast. The poor Camaro sold 24,000 units this year, and they want to cancel it.
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3. 

   Great job GM. And may I add, sedan sales look good. Of course, due to bad decisions by GM management, they only have 3 true sedans to sell. But they are selling and the Malibu outsold EVERY GM vehicle but the Equinox, Silverado and Sierra.

   Poor Buick probably wishes they had one or two sedans back.
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   1. 

      My Mother bought a New 2022 Malibu Premier…. 2.0 L motor last month. Of course the premier is discontinued for 2023 ! Sad.
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      1. 

         The Malibu Premier is a nice car, it is too bad that car is getting discontinued. That LTG engine has better power than the new 2.0l LSY used in the CT4. That Malibu Premier is one of the most slept on fwd sedans on this generation. That same engine used in the Camaro was pulling 5.4s 0-60 stock.
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4. 

   I think GM can manipulate sales – in this case, by prioritizing chips for makes other thank Buick. By winding down production of the Encore. By having production or shipping issues with the Encore GX and Envision. By building vehicles that are missing some things.
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   1. 

      Absolutely they do – and how many of these sales are “build-shy” vehicles, with RPO codes showing things missing due to chip shortage? I suspect many are and will continue to be.
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5. 

   103,000 Buick sales….I remember when they used to sell that many Park Avenues. Same for Cadillac….the DeVille alone used to account for over 100,000 sales, the Escalades “best selling” 40,000 units used to be what an average sales year for Eldorados was.
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   1. 

      MrR: You just nailed it. But we both know that everyone wants SUV/CUV’s and nobody wants sedans any more. haha. At least that’s what some on here want to keep saying.
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   2. 

      You also did not have the competition back then as you do now.

      The market has more brands than it has had in decades. The global market has spread out the sales to where it is no longer Cadillac vs Lincoln. In fact Lincoln is on life support.

      It is more about making more from less.

      All MFGs went to China as it was the only growing auto market in the world. All others you are just fighting over the same people.

      What used to be for an Eldorado is no longer in play. Automakers have to increase profits on efficiencies and better return on investments.

      Sure GM could build the best Eldorado ever next year but it will never sell 40K units. That ship has sailed. All luxury car sales are low numbers today and that is why they are so much.
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      1. 

         These numbers are still pathetic.

         I’m not implying that Cadillac needs an new Eldorado, I’m making the comparison that the “best seller” in the Cadillac line today up sells in the same numbers that the Eldorado, never the best seller in the line up; sold in a so-so year, there were times when Cadillac sold 70,000 Eldorados, about 30,000 more units than the Escalade sold this year.

         Where are all the crossovers that everyone wants so badly? The XT2345%&9 etc etc etc?

         21,000 XT4’s?? Wow……better board up that Lexus dealer….those numbers are going to send them packing back to Japan…..

         The Equinox sells in numbers that the Camaro used to sell, and thats considered big whoop dee doo….

         Buick was selling over 1,000,000 cars in the 80’s, it still sold over 400,000 units in 2002 and even 228,000 units in 2014, to barely sell over 100,000 cars now is sad and pathetic and another example of how this stupid company that once sold 2 out of every 3 cars in this county can’t market crap anymore.
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         1. 

            The problem is today the numbers cars sell in will be much smaller as the market is no longer growing. Also we have many more MFGs all fighting for the same number of sales per year.

            Even with less Escaldes sold you would find they made more money on that lower number than the all the cars they sold in the past.

            As for your Buick numbers yes they sold a lot of cars but they were not making money. Many of these cars were sold at little profit or no profit. GM went bankrupt selling more cars than anyone.

            The W body cars were sold and most were sent to rental fleets to unload them. It was cheaper to build the cars and sell at a loss than to close the plant and pay the workers to stay home and not build anything.

            Today it is not so much how many you sell than it is to make more money on unit sold.

            The truth is companies like GM have legacy costs and issues with too many dealers and other problems vs companies like Hyundai that bring cars in from cheap to run Asian plants and many cars built in non union plants down south. it is not a level playing field.

            You have to look at all aspects to get the right reading. Just how many you sold does not mean #&$ anymore.

            You will find GM is one of the most profitable companies out there and that is why their stock is three times what Ford is. Ford is in major money problems even with all the F series sales.

            Ford was at $12 and is expected to drop below $10 again,

            Times have changed, Economics have changed, market has changed. what worked in the 80’s does not work today.
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            1. 

               Don’t give me that “legacy costs” crap….GM is a newer company than Hyundai, they passed all those legacy costs on to the tax payer when they engineered their bankruptcy deal.

               The number of dealers GM has doesn’t mean anything either as those are franchises, they don’t belong to GM.

               Hyundai brings cars from “cheap asian plants” and GM isn’t bringing cars from China and Korea?

               What GM should do is find a way to just sell about 2.3 million Silverado’s a year and just discontinue everything else…..or a way to may $5 billion dollars on one Silverado.

               Your problem is that you think that you’re smart and you want to sound smart, but you’re really kinda smug and arrogant and talking half out of your ar$e most of the time…..
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               1. 

                  Not all cost were passed on. GM is still saddled with too many dealers vs what everyone else has that drives sale prices down because they compete against themselves. It lowers the income dealers make and calls for more incentives and kick backs. It does cost everyone money.

                  They still have some poor union contracts and older plants.

                  They still have a much older work force and have to seal with more retired employees and older employees with health issues.

                  GM has one car from China and anything from Korea is not cheap as they have major labor unions. Hyundai uses many plants y Malaysia that are non union.

                  The truth is GM and Ford could easily survive on just truck sales. But they are selectively trying to find other lines they can find profits in that are worth investing in.

                  I am just informed. I have been taught by people that really do these jobs in the industry and I try to learn from them. What I learned I try to share so we all are better informed.

                  I really don’t care what you think of me as you have no hell of an idea who I am and my life is not dependent on what you think. No smugness’ needed.

                  You can toss what ever insults if it makes you feel better. If you were so sure of yourself you would engage in a discussion with true facts not insults.

                  What I state is not what I feel. I don’t like much if this either but denial is not going to change what is going on.
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               2. 

                  You are entitled to your opinion as is anyone else. .

                  If you disagree debate it. But to move to personal attacks show a weak argument. It hurts me none only you.

                  There is no king of the hill here and this thread where we all exchange ideas and debate. All of this said here will be forgotten in a week anyways.
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            2. 

               GM is not worth 3x F. They have almost exactly the same market value at about $50B, and their reported margins are essentially the same. The difference is F has issued more shares than GM so the total market cap is divided into more pieces. On the other hand, F is much more highly valued as its market cap is acheived on siginficantly lower prodcution and sales. And neither is worth anywhere near as much as other large competitors.
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               1. 

                  Read the stock prices and the debts Ford has. Ford will soon slip below $10 again while GM Is $30 to $40 a share.
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                  1. 

                     Investors understand the debt each company has and have given the same enterprise value to both…rightly or wrongly, but the numbers are the numbers.

                     The stock prices themselves (F $13 and GM $35) can’t be compared as they have a different denominator. VW stock is at $12/share on the FF exchange yet it’s worth more than F or GM…simply a function of the number of shares issued. Toyota is at $140/share…if they did a 4 for 1 split it would $35 share, the same as GM. That wouldn’t change the fact that the company is worth more than F, Gm and VW combined.

                     That’s all I’m saying…not making any predications.
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            3. 

               Exactly. I’d buy a GM over a F.O.R.D. (Fix Or Repair Daily) any day.
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      2. 

         C8.R: I take it that MrR (and I was also) talking about the 80/90’s. So let’s take your first comment only about not having the competition back then. Really?
         Cadillac had MB, BMW, Jaguar, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus and Infiniti in those decades (with the last 3 coming in late in the 80’s). How has that changed today? Maybe Genesis added?

         As for other cars, we had Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, Mazda, Subaru, Dodge, Chrysler all back then. Maybe Tesla being the only real new player? On top of that, we lost some coemption. We no longer have Saturn, Olds, Pontiac, Mercury, Plymouth, etc.

         So please share with us what this competition is that we didn’t have then?
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         1. 

            Hyundai was no where near as large as today. Kia was very limited. Subaru has increased sales. It is more than just name but the fact all these companies have grown. Hyundai has even gone from a crap box to a car that has cut into Honda and Toyota sales so they own a larger piece of the market and it is not all ex Buick owners.

            But also look at each and they all mostly have one division for volume and one for Luxury outside VW.

            The cars we lost went to the similar brands. I recall seeing the surveys of Pontiac owners went to Chevy were very high.

            Add in the growth of models we did not have or has a small market. Fiat, Bentley, Mini. Pole Star, Lancia, Alfa, We soon will see more French brands. Range Rover has grown much. Then you have a number of EV models out and more coming.

            What is scary is the cars that could be coming from Apple, Sony and other non traditional brands.

            Cars like Bentley were a rare sight and today they can be seen daily even in snow covered parking lots.

            You guys cry because sedans are gone. well most American builders have killed most of their cars. Ford and Chrysler offer little GM has hung on to the Bu. With their place they are in they could not make much money on them. The CUV models are just as easy to build and make more money. They do as they do to make money.

            If there was money to be made under their circumstances they would be doing it. As I stated each MFG has their own set of challenges. While the American mfgs can not sell their sedans and make money the imports have totally failed at the full size trucks.

            One thing to keep in mind to is all the imports sell almost all their cars globally. The American brands are build and sold mostly in north America only. This scale really changes the profit structure for these imports.

            Here is the deal the market is more competitive than ever as it is not growing outside of China. You have all these companies competing for these same sales with uneven aspects to their production and scale. Odds are slim you are going to gain many more sales so you need to become more efficient and by doing that you can increase profits to a larger degree than a 2% gain in sales.

            All the American brands are at a disadvantage to companies like Hyundai.

            My point is simple the auto makers to survive need to find more money per unit vs just keep raising the prices. There is no profit building a number of divisions anymore so they all killed them.

            Most of the models today share only a couple platforms and most have the same engine. Look to Ford and GM and most of their FWD based models are the same platform and engines.

            GM soon will be mostly all 4 and 8 cylinders. I expect the 3.6 to become a Cadillac only models before it goes away.

            The industry is doing more with less.

            But even with all that prices are still staggeringly high.

            While the automakers do not say much on it you can see the move to EV is to maintain cost. Less workers, less parts and once developed the cost will be much lower. No trying to meet new crazy emissions regulations.

            The goals once they reach their development goals will be to lower costs, add range, shorten charge times, lower weight and increase reliability. But they still have more development to do and it will take a number of years for all this to happen. That is why we have two Blazers now.
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            1. 

               1. So now you are breaking it down saying Kia and some others were here, just smaller. Ok, seems like you change your story as others call you out.
               2. You bring up Fiat, Bentley, Alfa, etc. These aren’t even players against just Buick in terms of numbers. They aren’t players that have made any real difference in the market.
               3. Cars are not gone. How many times do I have to put REAL numbers on here proving such? I took just the main 10 or so players in the Malibu sized category for 2021 and there were around 2 million sold. If I added all cars (sedans and 2 doors) sold in the USA for 2021, I’m sure that number would nearly double.
               4. You bring up platform sharing/engine sharing. I agree and it’s what I’ve been preaching here for a long time. GM needs to utilize the Malibu for Buick and maybe even a Cadillac. They need to use the CT4/5 for Buick as well. Who cares if a few bi**h on here about sharing between brands. It worked in the past and will be needed for the future and it gives those assembly lines more work. Win win for all.

               I will agree with the rest of what you said. Let’s be clear. I’m not against SUV/CUV’s. I’m against them not offering cars/sedans and attempting to force those of us who do want a sedan to instead convert to an SUV. Not happening. In order for them to survive, they will need to keep sedans in the mix. Ford chose to not do this and I feel Ford will pay the price in the long run.
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               1. 

                  How do you compete agains automakers building sedans cheaper than you and selling them globally?

                  Take Honda Toyota and Hyundai and the fact they sell the basic same cars globally while GM is mostly stuck in America.

                  This advantage makes their efforts much more profitable while GM has to focus sales on one main sedan. Building more sedans will not increase the profits as much as other higher profit models.

                  Even as it is the leaders in the sedan class have seen steady declines for a number of years.

                  If you have $3 billion to invest do you invest in the model that brings top return or the one that brings 2/3 the return on the investment?

                  As for Ford they are facing some major challenges and it may get very ugly. Ford will be cutting more jobs soon. They said it will be done based on productivity. They just cut 8,000 to pay for their EV program that is behind schedule.

                  The company that bought Chrysler is just starting a cut and burn program closing plants.

                  Look I am not an anti sedan guy. I still own one. But I tire of GM offering sedans and other models then no one buys them.

                  The Cruze hatch no buyers. The Saturn Opel hatch no buyers. The Impala was a slow mover often with many discounted at dealers. I know as we bought a $50k mode for near $34k because it went unsold. We had a choice of 15 of them months into the next model year.

                  How many Buicks were offered? They were damn good cars. AWD, even a Wagon. The lacrosse was a great car and they discounted them lower than the Impala. I found one dealer that had new models 2 years old selling for near $30k.

                  Now you put the money into the CUV models and they sell and they make more money per unit for the dealer and GM.

                  I would love a RWD Chevy sedan as I hate FWD but it will never be built as it would cost near a Camaro and not be cheap. GM does not have a very old paid for platform like Chrysler who is killing their RWD soon.

                  All this was easy when it was just the big three in America but now the dynamics for each company are different and what works for one may not work for the others.

                  You are not going to grow sales so you need to maximize the profits.
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6. 

   So do these numbers include all the undelivered already built 2022 Sierra Trucks? When are you going to fix your delivery system. My son-in-law conceived and they delivered my Grandson before GM could deliver the AT4 they have on order. Been emailing the executives for the dealership and GM and the 2022 Sierra is still some place between Kansas City and the East Coast. Delivered is defined as title and vehicle transferred to customer!
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7. 

   They finally started getting some vehicles on their dealer lots.
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8. 

   I don’t see how Buick can survive long term with these volumes AND 121 days of inventory during an industry wide shortage. The Envision could sell but the exact type of buyers buying it don’t want made in China. When the Acadia goes back to Traverse size in ’24, how do you differentiate that and an Enclave? The Encore has its place and has overperformed but there is also little that stands out.

   It gets worse the Envision is priced the same and is very closely sized to the XT4. This is just cannibalization when both brands are weak. Will electric allow more differentiation and higher sales?
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