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Here’s What Happened To The Very Last Pontiac Ever Built

Pontiac, originally intended to slot between Chevy and Oldsmobile, has quite the storied history. The brand is particularly known for kickstarting the muscle car era with the introduction of the 1964 GTO, and for soldiering through the malaise era with the Firebird Trans Am models.

1967 Pontiac GTO Ram Air Convertible.

1967 Pontiac GTO Ram Air Convertible

Around the turn of the 20th century, Pontiac was posting poor sales as GM struggled to find a successful identity for the brand, becoming increasingly stagnant and diluted within GM’s portfolio. In the mid-2000s, Pontiac started to turn a corner and find its stride with the introduction of performance models like the 2004 GTO and 2009 G8 GXP. In fact, it was later reveled that Pontiac was intended to become GM’s performance brand during this renaissance, similar to what Dodge has become today.

Pontiac G8.

Pontiac G8

Unfortunately, GM’s Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2009 and subsequent government bailout forced the Detroit-based automaker to axe the brand entirely. The feds wanted GM to remove brands from its lineup and only keep one the ones that were necessary. As such, Cadillac was kept as the luxury division, Chevy was kept as the volume division, Buick was kept for interests in international markets (China), and GMC was kept because it was profitable. This left Pontiac, along with Hummer, Saab and Saturn, as the odd men brands out, spelling Pontiac’s discontinuation in 2010. Interestingly, the last car produced to ever bear the iconic red badge was a 2010 Pontiac G6.

Last Pontiac G6.

The last Pontiac G6

The G6 in question carried a VIN of 1G2ZA5EB5A4166962, and was equipped with a 2.4 L VVT DOHC four-cylinder engine. Sadly configured as a fleet vehicle, it was painted in Summit White and furnished with an Ebony interior. Even more sad is that the car experienced a relatively short life.

According to a thread on Reddit, the last mileage report to GM had the car around 60,000 miles. Then, two years later on September 1st, 2015, it was allegedly totaled and received a branded title. GM then voided all open warranties on the car, thus ending the G6’s record.

The last Pontiac ever built, this 2010 G6 in Summit White paint, was totaled and received a branded title.

The last Pontiac ever built, this 2010 G6 in Summit White paint, was totaled and received a branded title

For a brand as iconic Pontiac, it’s downright tragic to read this story. Just as the brand came to an abrupt and unexpected end, so too did the last vehicle it ever produced.

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As a typical Florida Man, Trey is a certified GM nutjob who's obsessed with anything and everything Corvette-related.

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Comments

  1. Pontiacs end was ” abrupt and unexpected”?

    Hardly. The much ballyhoed G8 had to be discounted heavily to find buyers. A profit killing situation on an expensive to build and import product. Over half the production of the other models were going to Hertz, Avis, etc.

    Reply
    1. I had 3 new Pontiacs, an 84 Fiero, 02 Grand Am, and a 09 G-6. All great cars and I still have the G-6 and my daughter still has her 07 Solstice.

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      1. Nice woke move on marking out “MENS” in this otherwise great article.🤨

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        1. Guess what, George: those are vehicles, not people. It’s a simple turn-of-phrase. Fascinating that you were so threatened by it you felt the need to call it out, though. SMDH.

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          1. SMDH: I find it hilarious that George even brings that up. I read the entire article and that isn’t close to anything I’d think when reading it. Maybe some people like George are just too quick to label something as silly as that in the “woke” department.

            Reply
            1. Maybe you like blowing trannies

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          2. To be fair. The visible strike out was silly. But so is the “anti-woke” vitriol . We all need to stop being offended by ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING.

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          3. Not threatened. Just pointing out how ridiculous this world has become. GET A LIFE

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            1. Owned a G6 gt ex rental car. The good? Great power from the 219 hp V6. Good handling and fun to drive. The Bad? Ate wheel bearings in the front like subs at a tailgate party. 40,000 miles buy both and start over. Liked to rust around the rockers. Air pan engine cover thin like a kids toboggan and always replace or repair thanks to rough Appalachian roads. Just felt like they got the thing 75 percent done and shipped it. Finally my daughter totaled it trying to pro rally it through an intersection on a wet day. Sad end.

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          4. Shut up woke tranny

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          5. lol. GM has been destroyed because woke morons like you are the only ones left to buy the brands. Real men buy foreign cars now. Trannies buy GM.

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      2. And now there worth the same as they were new, except after twelve years absent from the market the selection is very slim.

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        1. It’s amazing how GM have made so many changes over the years and allowed Ford to take them over.
          The G8 was built in Australia. There it is the Holden HSV.
          The Holden SS Ute that was meant to come to the states in Jan 09. Branded El Camino.
          These were really something.
          GM closed it’s doors in Australia in 2017.

          Reply
          1. It was bound to happen. Australia is a small market. Its labor isn’t cheap. Too bad: Holden, Ford, and Chrysler made some sweet vehicles over the years.

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          2. Ford has not overtaken them. GM is the larger company and sells more vehicles both in the US and globally.

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      3. I have a 2010 Pontiac Vibe. It has 381,772 miles. Runs great. The only thing I had replaced was the starter, alternator and the belt. (Battery and brakes). It still looks great everywhere but the hood. The hood has a bunch of chips of paint from stones.

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        1. Have a 2005 Pontiac Vibe (has a 2 year old new paint job) and 224,562 miles on it and it still runs great! I am the original owner. Aside from typical upkeep (new tires, oil changes, battery-on the second one since 2004!) I have spent $2000 in repairs since I first purchased in November 2004. Most people can’t believe it is as old as it is because it’s still in great shape inside and out. Great car…Glad to know that I can possibly get another 100k out of it!

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        2. Had a beloved ‘05 Vibe as well. But this car isn’t a Pontiac & doesn’t represent Pontiac. Vibes were all re-badged Matrix’ carrying the basic bulletproof Toyota 1.8 that also powered the 2003+ Corollas. They were assembled at the CA NUNMI plant which was a long-shared GM/Toyota enterprise that dates back to the mid-80s Novas, which had the nickname “the Corolla with a bow tie.” But the take-away: Matrixes named “Vibes” are incredibly great reliability champs with basic maintenance and affordable parts. I’d seek a lower mileage one even today.

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          1. The NUMMi assembly plant is now back in operation making Teslas. It’s where Elon Musk took the big leap from small time producer to mass production with the Model S.

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          2. Brad: That is true, but you don’t mention the fact that back in the day, the Vibe was rated higher than the Matrix by CR and others. It’s been a long time, but I read about this years ago and found it quite interesting. Pontian (GM) put the Vibe through more testing and was more strict on certain things. I wish I could recall it better, but those extra steps and changes GM made were effective and worked.

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            1. The vibe also carried a better warranty

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        3. I got a 06!grand Prix with the best motor ever made a 3.8 and it runs great and fyi I’m from Pontiac Illinois and we have the Pontiac car museum amdnhave recently purchased the last g6 ever made

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        4. You do know a Vibe is a Toyota, right? Pontiac just sloped their badge on a Japanese car.

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    2. Yeah, it didn’t have anything to do with GM cutting something like a Billion dollars from its marketing budget in that period, did it? Frankly I’m surprised you forgot to take a stab at unions while you were at it. SMDH.

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    3. Only half of what you say is true. The Feds bailout and then demands in bankruptcy where the feds wanted Pontiac to drop some of it’s brands. GM choose to jettison the Pontiac and keep Cadillac, Chevy, GMC.

      Reply
      1. And Buick.

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  2. Sad. You’d at least think GM would want to build something really special as the last Pontiac ever and then place it in a museum. But then again, as the article states, Pontiac was done due to the GM’s chapter 8. Thus maybe it would have been a bad choice to put one in a museum.

    Reply
  3. I think some of the comments are very sad to read because PONTIACS are still great CARS.
    The most recently built Pontiacs such as the G6, G8 and all with a Holden base also have a great history!

    What amazes me here about this G6 is that GM has no interest in at least restoring the last G6 built since any salvage car can be repaired – and this one is PONTIAC G6 HISTORY. But unfortunately we also know that GM executives are sometimes technically and historically unfamiliar with the GM oldies!

    Good that there are still private fans!

    Reply
  4. Pontiac died long ago. The cars at the end were just restyled Chevy models and not even the best versions of those.

    The G6 was a mess. It was from the performance division but they really had no real performance mode.

    The GXP was All Spoiler and no engine. The V6 was just the standard V6 in any GM car. They had the 2.0 Turbo that could have been used but never did.

    To be honest there is little interest in this case as there was in the last Olds. Closing lines today most cars are just fleet cars to use up remaining parts.

    In history very few last cars are saved of any brand or model outside a C model corvette going to a new platform.

    The last 10 years of Pontiac was years of decline. We did get a few models via Lutz but it was too late by the time he arrived.

    GM never understood they needed the divisions to work together not against each other. Chevy had more say as they sold more cars than Pontiac. Too often Chevy prevented Pontiac from getting what they needed.

    Delorean in the 60’s put together a group of rebellious engineers that broke rules. They did things well in advance of other brands but John was sent to Chevy to die.

    These engineers still broke rules up till the Fiero and most retired. After that Pontiac just became another corporate brand.

    While they did more exciting versions than Chevy they just never had their independents again.

    Chevy got a Cobalt SS and Pontiac was refused. Turbo G5, this is a great example of how Pontiac died.

    Todays SUV market would never have fit a Pontiac either. It was never a CUV or SUV brand. Also the few performance versions of these models today are over priced and sell few in numbers.

    I am a life long Pontiac fan and have owned or driven many of their greatest cars. That is why I said they died long before this G6.

    I am far from alone as at the Pontiac events most there will agree.

    Imagine a 4th Gen Pontiac with a high torque Pontiac engine to set it apparat from a Camaro. A 1986 2+2 with a real Pontiac fuel injected engine over a 305 non HO.

    A Grand Prix that was RWD or AWD vs FWD.

    So much was left on the table.

    Reply
    1. Your article is well written, but whether a brand is recognized as an SUV or CUV or SAV by customers and the media is not necessarily a manufacturer’s job.

      A manufacturer brings a model onto the market and if the media likes it, it is reported positively or negatively.
      Take a look at Porsche! Who would have thought that Porsche, apart from the 356, 901, 911, 924, 944, 968, 928, are actually so similar to sports cars. Now PORSCHE has become an SUV, CUV and SAV brand. This also applies to Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW and all the companies we know. The market decides whether a product is popular! Unfortunately, too often the media and politics – see PHEV vehicles.

      Conclusion:
      Anyone looking for the market will find it if marketing and the media want it, then the CUSTOMER will also buy!
      This would have worked for PONTIAC, but damsl the state didn’t want Pontiac anymore either – topic Chapter 11…

      Reply
      1. Porsche needed volume models and the platforms from VW gave them volume. Pontiac had volume and they already had HMC in most dealers as well Buick.

        To be honest Pontiac was originally set to close in the 80’s. What saved them was the Fiero and Trans Am brought many into the dealers and people started to buy the Grand Am. Olds loss of the RWD Cutlass killed sales and moved the bubble to Olds.

        Even as a Pontiac enthusiast and owner I can clearly see there was no advantage to Pontiac today, most companies are one maybe two divisions.

        GM would easily be Chevy and Cadillac if not for Chinas love of Buick.

        Chevy can do today anything Pontiac could have done and at a much lower cost and higher profit.

        The days of a division for everyone are gone. This is why Pontiac, Plymouth, Mercury and others are all gone. Economics today force doing more with less.

        Pontiac could have lived on but it would meet a higher price point if you did it right and it would have struggles with the public decline in performance.

        Now with the Economy crashing GM will be in better shape being a leaner company right now.

        Simetimes companies have to step back to move forward.

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    2. I mostly agree: the Aztek was a disaster despite its great “utility,” pun intended. The Torrent was badge engineering at its most classic: I know a couple who own one with Pontiac on the grille and a bowtie on the hatch door. Guess they weren’t paying attention that day.

      If Porsche and Mazda can sell CUVs, so could Pontiac. I wouldn’t buy one, but I’ll bet someone would.

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      1. Exactly Pontiac would have just had rebadged vehicles as a SUV. They really would never have gotten the engines they needed.

        Porsche SUV models are just rebadged VW models but at least they get special attention. Chevy would never let Pontiac get the upper hand. They would have the same 3.6 my Acadia has.

        Speaking of GMC you want an example of the Pontiac SUV. Look at the Terrain. When Pontiac was killed the Terrain was a Torrent Pontiac. The changed very little on it. Even the dash had the red Pontiac light as a GMC.

        The only thing Pontiac had coming in the non car segment that was interesting was the G8 sport truck. But at near $45,000 at that time they expected less than 10k to be sold per year.

        The market has left what Pontiac was. The Mustang and Camaro sales are in decline. The Mopars sell a bit better per the lower cost but even their numbers are down. Pontiac used to sell as many GTOs in one year as all the Dodge, Ford and Camaros sold in one year now.

        Trucks and Jeeps are where it is at and I still hope GMC or Chevybwould do a Jeep like vehicle. The Bronco is still not up to the Jeep and for better or worse the Jeep is stuck with a look.

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        1. The first gen Acadia spent alot of its development as a future Pontiac.

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          1. Actually It was a production Saturn then became a GMC after Saturn was shut down.

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      2. The real question is why someone would buy that SUV with Pontiac on the front, and Chevy on the back. Didn’t the buyer think to look that SUV over before buying it? And why buy it if you think it is suspect in quality?

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        1. I saw one of those hybrid minivans in a Pontiac lot years ago. I thought it was a one off, guess I was wrong

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      3. The real question is why someone would buy that SUV with Pontiac on the front and Chevy on the back. Didn’t the buyer think to look that SUV over before buying it? And why buy it if you think it is suspect in quality?

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        1. They got a good price.

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        2. This just flashed across my mind: Could this once-new Pontiac have arrived at destination dealer with lift gate damaged in loading/unloading process during transport, ? and a scrappy problem-solver quickly sourced a new, identical-color code ‘Chevy sibling model’ tailgate for it to basically get it quickly out onto the lot to sell? Original buyer either noticed Chev badge, or did not notice it or didn’t think anything of it. But I do tend to think (per comment in this thread) that plant assembly parts control would not have ever allowed any Chevy badged part to cross-pollinate a Pontiac assembly line. This occurred afterwards – anybody else ??

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      4. Nothing new on the Emblem mix up. I have seen it on Ford, Chrysler, and Toyota.

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        1. I knew a woman who bought a Ford Fairmont with a Mercury Zephyr front clip. She called it a “Ford Mercury.”

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      5. Bologna! It’s not 1973 anymore… Clearly you’ve never set foot in modern assembly plant. “I guess they weren’t paying attention that day” doesn’t happen with something as blatantly obvious as the badge on the car. If the badges would even fit interchangeably (the probably won’t), there’s no way it would make it past quality control at the plant, delivery center, or Dealership… Your “friends” either are or bought used cars from idiot rednecks that were too cheap to replace collision damaged vehicles with the correct parts. Either that or you’re completely full of it…

        Reply
        1. The last issue I saw was not long ago. The web has photos of mistakes like emblems.

          Now I would agree mixed front clips don’t happen.

          One big one now is the screen lights up with Chevy in a GMC etc. seen several of these.

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          1. I work at a Chevy dealership, and I went and sat in one of our new Traverse’s just to see what it was equipped with.

            When I booted it up, the infotainment booted as Cadillacs “cue” system and I laughed my ass off. The Traverse just downgraded itself right in front of me!

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        2. While showing off classic Pontiacs at our local Pontiac/ GMC dealer, I spotted a brand new GMC pickup that was Chevy on one side and GMC on the other. I should have bought it but I had a new Ford work truck at home and not enough money. The local dealer had sold my 1949 coupe originally (I’m the third owner) but when Pontiac died so did the business. Not sure what happened to that truck but it was real.

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      6. I still have my Aztek with 93K miles. Just put a new rear arrowhead on it and going to put some new tires on it soon. Love that car.

        Crappy thing is I cant find some interior parts for it now. So I am now forced to use different colors from Rendezvous and Ventures.

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    3. C8.R

      Great historical review on Pontiac. A+

      More history from an insider/outsider:

      John DeLorean got GM to grant his brother, Chuck, a Cadillac dealership on the west side of Cleveland when Cadillac was King of the Hill and Cleveland was a great and powerful city. In the heyday of Detroit, Michigan. Fifty some years ago when America was America.

      Sadly, as the great cities of Detroit, Cleveland and the rest of the Rust Belt faltered along with the big three automakers, American steel makers, tire makers due to the Asian onslaught, discussion ensued with the good ol boy members of the Westwood Country Club in Rocky River, Ohio. Chuck DeLorean was a member. (BTW: Chuck hit three holes-in-one at Westwood and was a scratch golfer during his time at Westwood).

      After a round of golf in the Westwood clubhouse the captains of Cleveland industry would discuss the auto industry, of which Cleveland was a major auto and truck parts producer back in the day, Eaton, TRW, Clevite, White, etc.

      Discussion centered on the big three. Ford at that time was Cleveland’s largest employer with the Walton Hills Stamping Plant – now closed, Cleveland Castings Plant – now closed, Engine Plant # 2 – now closed. GM had Fisher Body Coit Road – now closed, Euclid Avenue Trim Plant-now closed, Brookpark Transmission – now closed. Euclid Earthmoving Division – now closed, a segment of Detroit Diesel – now closed.

      The boys would discuss how GM was rotting from within from corporate politics – backstabbing, lavish junkets, internal infighting, favoritism, cronyism, etc. A perfect storm was brewing in their analysis. I overheard all of this as a kid at the Westwood Country Club in Rocky River, Ohio.

      The inevitable did happen in time. GM jettisoning divisions, closing plants, eliminating divisions and the era of poor Roger Smith. The karma of excess came back to haunt General Motors. Just like a fat lady eating bon bons and chocolates, sitting all day long having her health deteriorate. This is the story of GM.

      Now it’s a new do or die chapter for GM. From what I am seeing, I think the new GM is on track for a revived life. Warren Buffet at 92 years old is betting on this. Mary Barra may go down in history as one of the great ones. Success to all.

      Reply
      1. I am very familiar with the Norther Ohio area. Much of what you post is true but it is even more involved than that.

        I am not an insider but I did grow up with a family member that was the old school Sloan era executive. He taught me much on GM and engineering. Sadly much of what he taught me is what was never changed till late and damaged GM.

        GM for decades functioned as a corporation but was run like a bunch of separate companies, they should have been run to compliment each other but they failed to do that. It was so bad identical parts were sold under more than one part number and GM woul not pay the same price on each part,

        Horrible union deals were made to the point it was cheaper to build cars and sell at a loss vs closing a plant down.

        There were many thing they needed to do over the years but many leaders just kicked the can down the road.

        John had the right idea 85% of the time. That is a good average vs the others. But John stepped on too many toes and paid a big price. His big ego got him far but he made a list of enemies and they set him up for failure at Chevy.

        GM needed to work together and eliminate the number of models on the same platforms.

        They just had too many of the same cars.

        Then you the crazy panic in the 80’s to down size and make everything FWD. that cost a ton of money and did not work well.

        GM has always had leading technology but too often they put it in cars long before it was ready.

        To be honest GM is in a good place now. They have a good line of good selling CUV models and truck. They are in a good place to deal with EV regs and they are working to sell both ICE and EV as long as it is viable. They are not marketing this but that is what they are doing.

        Right now Ford is in major trouble. Their income is down and they have loans to pay and an Electic vehicle program yet to fund.

        They are laying off people to pay for the EV program.

        If not for the Ford family owning 51% I think they may have been a take over target.

        Mary has faced a great number of challenges. But GM is in a good spot right now. Dealing with all the changes, the political pressures, the web pressures, the technology issues, labor issues, Covid issues etc.

        Imagine the parts shortage issues under the old GM.

        The Pontiac end I have learned much as I have been a Pontiac historian for a number of years. I grew up with a number of Pontiac collectors and racers from the Tin Indian team in Akron. These guys from the glory era taught me much and you hear the non GM take on it much like you did.

        Being involved with the Fiero I can show just how dysfunctional GM was on just this single program then you spread it out over all the other models. It shows how bad things were.

        When I would talk about the issues at Pontiac everyone would say this is off the record and don’t use my name but this is what really happened.

        I saw the documents from the meeting that killed the car. It really got bad as Pontiac was pissed at Chevy and GM. The URW was mad at Pontiac and GM was really upset with Pontiac. Those feelings still linger in a number of areas yet, most are retired but they are still bitter.

        I know today the enthusiast are still upset but we are the small group here as the majority are the people looking for reliable good cars that get good mpg, safe and will not leave you stranded. This is why Hyundai sells as well as they do.

        The general buying public no longer as a whole identify with their cars as most of do or did in the past. People used to be a Cadillac man but today no one is a Hyundai man. Loyalty for the most is gone.

        Anyways this is still just the tip of the iceberg and much is what the general public was never exposed to.

        I do recommend the Delorean book on a clear day you can see GM. Or Lutz book Bean counters vs Car Guys. Both give a small peek into the mess GM was. I wish more would read these and get a better idea how much better things are now. Perfect no but in difficult times they are doing better than most.

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    4. It is obvious you never had a Pontiac. I have over 200,000 miles on my 2006 Pontiac G6. I have used it every day. no issues, none! I had an oil leak, $50.00 to fix it. never a problem aside from oil changes, tires and it does not use oil and smooth running. The cleanest-looking car. I had a guy come up to me and started bad-mouthing Pontiacs. When I looked at him confused by his statement, he walked off talking to himself.

      Reply
      1. Maybe he owned a 74 V8 Ventura like me that needed a valve job at 12001 miles although the shaking started at 11000 miles along with moulding falling off going down the road equipped with tissue thin tires. I owned a 58 chieftain convertible and a 64 GTO but that Ventura was the last Pontiac I ever owned.

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      2. Not sure what point you are making here. No one said a G6 was bad but the problem was the G6 was not really a Pontiac.

        Pontiac was really an engineering and performance brand at their peak and it was a strong image with their own engines and styling and performance.

        By the time the G6 arrived it was just a rebodied Malibu. Yes a good transportation car but it offered nothing that the Malibu and Saturn Aura offered. GM needed to let the Performance division offer performance. The 2.0 Turbo at 260 HP would have set the GXP apart. But it lacked any real performance options other than spoilers.

        Things like this hurt Pontiac. Lutz arrived and all he had money to do is bring the GTO here. But it was too late. Pontiac also needed their own tunes on these Chevy based engines but that never happened. Pontiac had this kind of stuff but were never permitted to use them by GM.

        Pontiac become more a styling exercise that no one knew what to do with it at GM.

        I agree they were good cars but they were nothing more or less that you could buy at Chevy and GM made the mistake not letting Pontiac to be different.

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    5. Good point with G5/Cobalt SS, but advocating JdL and Lutz isn’t 1 for 1 what would have worked for Pontiac and GM.

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      1. What was funny is the Lordstown plant built a G5 Turbo. They showed they had all that was need on the shelf to build the car but GM rejected it.

        Imagine Pontiac offering that car with 260 HP and the GM Tune that made it 295 HP. It would have done well and even made dealers money on the tune install.

        GM just did not want to upset Chevy and that is why Pontiac never was let to be what they should have been.

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        1. Pontiac absolutely needed to be in the sport compact game, over Chevy.

          The sexed up front drive stuff was in their wheelhouse – when they’ve done that with Chevy’s, there’s always a large chunk of people put off. I feel that stigma holds today.

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          1. This is the deal The Cobalt SS was a very good car. It was very fast and handled well the same work was applied to the HHR SS and it was a killer package. Add the GM tune and it was right at 300 HP.

            Here we had Pontiac they were the performance division and they had nothing. The GP was OK but it was not a sport compact.

            The G5 and G6 both needed some life and power. The G6 GXP in particular. But you will find Chevy stood in the way.

            The 86 2+2 needed a 305 HO like the Monte SS but it never got it. There were other models that needed help but GM would not let them have what they needed.

            The real dumb thing was Pontiac did get the Series 3 3800 SC but Chevy was refused it. The Series 2 required premium fuel where the 3 it was optional. Chevy Could have use that. Then sticking a V8 in the Chevy and GP both was a mistake. The car was so detuned for the transaxle the V6 3800 SC was the better car. Less weight on the nose.

            Imagine if GM would have taken the Cobalt and sold it as is and then let Pontiac use the tune from the factory to compliment the Chevy at a higher price.

            Imagine if the Fiero was made to compliment and be a stepping stone to the Corvette.

            GM divisions were like a puzzle but their parts all did not fit.

            Reply
            1. There used to be a ton of puzzle pieces, and many ideas may have been helpful. Powertrain distinction of the brands.
              A smaller displacement LS (4.8?) may not have killed drivelines, and just removed any need for the supercharged 3.8. S-C the lighter 60 degree pushrod, and made Pontiac their F-i brand. Chevy is a muscle/truck brand, where buying outside those segments is value saving for one in it. Fiero would have needed to be allowed to be what the Z06 is now, with the Vette staying front-mid muscle. Very very debateable.

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              1. Here is what we do know.

                The 5.3 in the GXP GP and N star in the GXP Bonneville was just to make up for the loss of the Firebird with the V8. The problem both were FWD and really not much faster than the 3800 SC. It also made the cars very nose heavy.

                Chevy has always been value performance. They are the value brand but they took away the premium brand performance from the Firebird with cooperate engines.

                To be honest the Fiero even if it had lived was not expected to make it past the second gen. Most lower cost sports cars are 5-10 year cars at best. The Miata is the exception.

                The Fiero could have done well as a sub car to the Corvette and kept the lower pricing while the Corvette went higher priced. They could have complemented each other vs competing .

                What really killed the Fiero was they built the car in a plant that could build 250,000 cars a year. To be honest they over sold the car in the first two years in six figures to try to make the plant viable till the GM 80 program came in. That was the FWD AWD F body no one wanted.

                The GM 80 was canceled and the Fiero was pointed out to be well under capacity even with the volume at where they expected at just over 30K units a year. But on its own line it was not good financially.

                Chevy used this to kill the car as making a case for the C5 was difficult and the new DOHC V6 had them worried about the Fiero.

                What also a concern was Pontiac did build a V8 Fiero. The car was sized to accept one that is why the swaps are so easy. But GM killed that when they found it in Mesa Testing.

                The truth is the Corvette and Fiero could have coexisted if they had worked together but GM failed to get them to do this.

                Many never knew the C5 was canceled and only saved because Chevy hid the program. Once it was done GM gave the go ahead as it was a much better car. But the manager who hid it paid with his job.

                We see all these post on the web of what GM should do and what they should not do but there is a lot more to all this than we often ever hear or see. I was lucky to get with the heads of the FIero program and they were willing to talk off the record. If not we would never have know the buried truth.

                Pontiac was an engineers division but they were robbed of their ability to be different. This led to people coming in to Pontiac that were not even automotive people let alone performance people.

                While we still get some that praise the Aztec well it was the right idea just the wrong styling and lack of power killed it. They could have saved the Aztec with some tweaks as Lutz saw one at the SEMA show with a much better nose. He asked his people on camera point blank why can’t we do something like this!

                We can play all sorts of what if games with Pontiac but it was like the Titanic. They luckily killed it before it got damaged to the point the name could never be used again.

                My hope is for all the negatives of EV the one positive is they can do more niche cars and make Pontiac a sub brand though Chevy. Or there are other options but till the EV market has gotten to where it needs to be and the economy recovers there will not be too many games by any mfg. The cost of the EV programs is devastation on the companies and only a few have a handle on it and GM is one.

                Ford is laying off people to pay for theirs and others have hardly even started and the parts shortages and economy is going to make it even more difficult.

                Reply
                1. The cancelled C5 showed a massive lack of foresight. That drivetrain, including torque tube, should’ve been and still be the bedrock of all their performance offerings from then on. Speaking of light noses.

                  Is it safe to say the N-body coupes knocked off Fiero and GM-80? I do love the fact they had secret projects going.

                  The stance of cars got better with Lutz and the interiors (I’m not an interior snob).

                  A couple thoughts about EV (away from pro&con troll threads):

                  The Tesla truck is defensive move to get the ‘Legacy’ companies spending money on niches. -Instead of beating his bread and butter Y & 3 (where Pontiac might fit). And beating his charge network.

                  And now the Cathy Wood style hipster investors have lost their bull market beta. It’ll be tough sledding to gain funding for a while. –

                  The average citizen doesn’t believe or care about C02 levels. They should be caring about seeing a geopolitical resolving deal that breaks OPEC and pigeon holes the globalist/middle east producers.

                  Thanks C8.R. My 2 cents, or 20.

                  Reply
                  1. Well you have to recall the C4 was selling close to 12,000 units and GM was not exactly in great financial health even then.

                    Making a business case looking back is easy but back then there was no way to prove it was a sure thing. The LT engine is what brought this car to life. It was faster than a ZR1 and Cheaper. GM had to delay the engine till the ZR was gone. That was why it was late.

                    The N body Grand Am was a success according to the Pontiac people due to the new 3rd gen Firebird and Fiero. It got people into the show rooms and not many could live with a 2 seat car 24/7 but they could a Grand Am.

                    The GM 80 was a car the engineers did not want to start with and when the Mustang did not move to what became the Probe Ford kept the Fox platform so this got GM to stick to RWD and the 4th gen.

                    What is Ironic is the 4th gen F body used the Fiero GT 2nd gen styling adapted to a front engine car. The profiles were nearly identical and the dash panel was carrier over the 4th gen from the 1990 Fiero in tact. Schinella said it was too good to throw away.

                    Many things improved under Lutz and the culture began to change. They are much better and efficient today. Perfect no but much better than in the last 70 years.

                    Tesla truck is for shock value but I expect the shock will be worn off fast. It will play like the Y gull wing doors. More novelty than needed. The Stainless body will be like the Delorean cool till it ages or you want colors.

                    EV is not going away as too much money has been invested and the path is set. How fast the changes come may vary as the automakers are behind and as you can see GM is doing two of most models gas and EV to let the customers change at their own pace. But in the end regulations will force the change.

                    There is a lot of years and development to go so car will be very acceptable range and price wise by the time most are forced.

                    As for the Corvette and the C8 I suspect you were referring to with light noses. The cars performance is just amazing over any of the last coupe C models. The only way to make the car better was to move the engine. It is not just mid engine but the lower center of gravity and centering the mass on the chassis etc. It is not just about 50/50 balance but to have the mass closer to the center of the car that makes the greatest difference.

                    The Rear Transaxle cars are durable but when they break they are not really easier to work on. My Neighbors 8K mile car he bought had a failed fuel pump. They had to remove the tank, the exhaust and transaxle and suspension to change the pump. Later cars had a panel but not the early ones.

                    The move to mid engine was a long time coming and they nailed it. You now have a Zo6 that can out run a Ford GT at 1/5th the price.

                    Reply
                    1. Light noses by a rear trans has been my wish for front engine small-block cars/vehicles with rear seats.

                      Mixed material castings also by now to improve weight distribution.

                      Pony coupe, sedan, especially a tall hatch and Durango alternatives.

                      It’s an insult & tragedy that towel is being thrown in. EV won’t replace desire. Caddy frankly didn’t deserve what is available now.

                      I understand the mass centralization & aero advantage with C8. The buyer “boomer” transition going on is a bit awkward. I’m not concerned about it.

                      Thanks again

                      Reply
  5. My dad left us a 2008 G6 when he passed and my wife used it to commute for 7 years before it too was also totaled, it did protect her as she only received a broken fingernail from the crash. The car was simple to maintain and it’s first set of tires went 80K miles. My wife had her eye on the new G8 which I intended to get her when Pontiac was shut down. I attend may car shows and cruises and the Pontiacs are always a favorite, sad to see Pontiac end the way it did.

    Reply
    1. Our 2007 G6 is arguably the best car we’ve ever owned. Oil changed regularly and 225k km has arrived with great reliability and few repairs. The little that has needed work is easily and economically fixed. After 16 years of harsh Canadian winters and road salt, some body rot is beginning to take hold, but overall, it stands as an exception to GM’s somewhat poor quality reputation from those economically troubled times.

      Reply
      1. Gostava da rebeldia dos fabricantes da Pontiac, faziam carros de aparências quentes. Há espaços para um retorno. Só falta vontade política da GM.

        Reply
        1. english!!!

          Reply
          1. Don’t be an ahole

            Reply
            1. Don’t be a woke a****

              Reply
  6. what happened to the last Hummer, Oldsmobile and Saturn too?

    Reply
    1. The last Olds was an Alero. It was in the museum in Lansing until it was sold during the bankruptcy. Like that G6, it wasn’t anything special.

      Reply
      1. thank you

        Reply
  7. Interestingly enough, that last Pontiac sold as a fleet unit. So probably to a rental company one would think.

    Reply
  8. I bought a 2009G-6 new and I still have it, great car!

    Reply
    1. I still see a lot of G6 on the road. It’s a shame when people say GM and US cars are garbage and drive imports with their nose in the air. I had a 2007 GP and traded it in on a 14 Impala and no breakdowns and nothing to fix; just changed, 4 brake pads, 4 wipers, tires, 1 can a power steering fluid, and oil changes. 15 years of no problems has saved me a crap load of money.

      Reply
  9. I retired my 2007 Grand Prix with 263K on the clock. Best car I have ever owned. Rust starting everywhere and a problematic transmission. 15 years on a daily driver isn’t bad. I hope to repeat this with my new car

    Reply
  10. The comments knocking the G8 is crazy the issue is it came out at wrong time in 2008 every car was heavliy discounted. I personally got 8k off my G8 GT msrp went from 32k to 24k Dec 08 gm finance was 30% at the time. But guess what at same time dodge charger was dicounted just as much f150 ans silverados the same. since G8 was just rebadged import cars the fact that gm didn’t kill pontiac and bring the g8 back as a buick was the real tragedy. Yes the SS came much later. But GM let dodge beat them at a segment they had locked up in Australia they could just import cars over and rule the rwd segment just price lower than ctsv. Oh yea I still own that g8gt with 180k never had check engine light but it does eat lower control arms for some reason. Best GM vehicle I ever owned.

    Reply
    1. Yup I got $9k off my 09 G6 new with GM discount and rebates.

      Reply
      1. If I got 9k off of a cheap car like a G6 I would have cashed it out on a real car ASAP.

        Reply
        1. Wrote a check for it and It’s still on the road, looking at it now. Times were pretty uncertain then so went for the economic model and worked out great. I will probably pass on to my grandkids.

          Reply
        2. “cashed it out on a real car ASAP”. Care to expand on that budlar?

          I can’t wait to hear this one.

          Reply
          1. It is easy 9k off a cheap car means when that great deal goes away you should be able to flip/or trade it in for a profit If you are car dealer savvy enough to pull it off.

            Reply
            1. In today’s market, maybe so. But no way back then with cars dropping in value the second they are titled. Even in today’s crazy market which is beginning to correct itself, that’s not easy to do.

              Reply
    2. The G8 was not selling as people avoided Pontiac as a dying brand. I had the same offer on a G8 at the time.

      Hummers were also real bargains but I held off due to the worry of resale on a orphan vehicle.

      Today the G8 is doing well and the gas Hummer prices are crazy high.

      Reply
      1. If it was on a G8 V8 I would be tempted.

        Reply
        1. What stopped me was my wife wanted a SUV and it was going to be here car. It was a killer price for a car near $35K.

          Reply
          1. I remember that I could have the first year GTO w/ the LS1 in Jan of the next year for like 16k after rebates,discounts,dealer flex cash and gm card money.
            It was just to ugly, I should of just bought it to flip it.

            Reply
  11. I once rented a G6 and took it on a trip from San Francisco down to LA, and back. Lots of high speed freeway driving, I found it incapable of settling into a straight line when at speed. It required a steady amount of small corrections to keep it going straight down the highway. Other than that, it was a fine car.

    Reply
    1. You had a rental car that needed an alignment?
      That’s not exactly surprising.

      Reply
  12. I’m just glad to remember the Pontiacs of the 1960s and 70s – elegant, glamorous, distinctive styling and exciting performance from the likes of the GTO, the Grand Prix, the Firebird and the Bonneville. A different world.

    Reply
  13. All I know is my mutiline dealer sales manager told me they sold more pontiacs than buicks.
    As the article says in a polite way it was all about China who had a fetish for buicks.

    Reply
    1. Danangme69: That may be true in the area you lived, but it was not true for the area I lived and sold cars. I’m sure things like this are quite demographically inspired. But where I sold in the mid-west, the Buick’s sold in much higher numbers than the Pontiac’s for most years. It is correct that the high sales in China did save the Buick line in the USA. Back in 2007, when it was clear GM was going to kill off Olds and Pontiac, we were very concerned that our Buick line would also go. When we found out that Buick was safe, the dealer owner found out from GM directly that it was the result of the China connection and sales. Some times I get a little frustrated with the Buick/China connection and I certainly wish Buick would be fully American (in terms of country or origin and assembly), but then I also need to remind myself that if not for the Chinese market we wouldn’t have Buick today.

      Reply
    2. Pontiac had its areas.

      The Midwest was the greatest selling Pontiac market in the country. Chicago was the greatest sales area as was Michigan, Indiana and Ohio.

      This is why Pontiac did most of their major introductions at the Chicago auto show every year.

      Now that did change in the early 2000’s. The GTO was shipped to the Midwest where it did ok but sales were off the chart in California. They actually had to ship cars back to the west coast to fill orders. The G8 saw similar results.

      Buick car sales after the LaSabre tanked. They actually had some great cars at the end but no one wanted them. The SUV thing took over and the Enclave became the face of Buick here.

      The only think that kept most Buick dealers viable were the GMC and Denali models as these were high sales and profits. One dealer here was Pontiac GMC and not is just GMC refusing Buick and are more profitable today as the GMC dealer only.

      Reply
      1. Not surprising the rear wheel drive g8s and gto’s would do better in california, florida, southern states. My favorite pontiac would be the 99-02 firebird but live in wisconsin and can’t daily something like that here.

        Everyone bashes the front wheel drive cars but guess what, you can actually drive them in the snow. A rear wheel drive vehicle would be ridiculous to daily here. Wouldn’t even be able to get out of a parking lot. Love the late 90’s early 2000’s grand am’s and grand prix’s. Loved the exteriors, interiors had cool styling. Can’t stand hearing people complain about their “build quality”- yeah that build quality that is so bad that the cars still look as they did new 20 years later. Eat a d*@*.

        So then you see all these articles about how “weak” pontiac was in it’s final years with nothing special vehicles- except the g8, firebird, solstice, etc…. Yeah that’s horrible, for every gen they always had a “cool/niche” toy car. And to keep the brand alive they had the grand ams, prixs, bonnevilles, and g6’s to be cool, transportation. People are fools. Guess go get in that ugly a$$ corolla or kia and have fun in that styling machine. Still see a lot of g6’s and grand prix’s around. Occasionally some grand am’s. Don’t see too many early 2000’s imports of anykind cruising around. Remember the last time I seen a early 2000’s corolla on the road- hideous, no style, just a set of wheels and nothing more. What has happened to younger people that actually prefer that nonsense to something with some soul.

        I was born in 1990. Been in many pontiacs. Would really like to buy a nice g6. Seen a super low mile, red on shale? convertible but can’t be buying a toy car right now and with as low of miles as it has, would be a crime to be driving that in the salt.

        Reply
  14. Sold tons of Pontiacs here in Indiana and many are still on the road including mine! It’s our 3rd vehicle (backup) and my wife won’t let me sell it. She drives it shopping to save door dings on her Nox Premier.

    Reply
  15. I loved the last Gen Grand Prix GTP and GXP sedans! That said Pontiac was on the way out after the Fiero as C8.R stated. Pontiac was my favorite GM Division, I just loved how their cars were styled and their stance on the road was attractive. You see GM’s marques were not supposed to be mere brands but interdependent divisions within the corporation. GM threw out the baby with the bathwater when they were trying to reorganize and consolidate themselves, which led to their bankruptcy as they failed. When you leave a Chevy and go into a Pontiac on the same platform, you knew you were in a car that was more or less a step above in driving comfort and interior appointments. When your marques become just brands, you lose product differentiation as they share too many parts and power trains to save costs at the expense of customer loyalty and exclusivity.

    GM now has a unique opportunity to bring back well known marques as sub brands on their Ultium platform, as successfully demonstrated by GMC with their Hummer sub brand. Pontiac can return as a upper level sub brand for Chevrolet with high performance, brand specific interior appointments, and dramatically styled EVs. Same thing can be attempted for a Oldsmobile sub brand, with limited production numbers of high styled superior driving dynamics large EV and plug in hybrid sedans using the Ultium battery system. I for one dont think Pontiac is really ‘dead’ it can comeback, if GM chooses to do so, and they can do so with the tech they have now.

    Reply
    1. Being a Ford fanatic I still do love my older and some newer GM’s in 2010 to 2017 I bought 4 Pontiac’s GXP And GT’s and at a great price in great shape and low mileage all under 70,000 ,, The only thing I’ve had to do is replace the aluminum calipers on the Pontiacs due to corrosion plugging I still consider Pontiacs a bargain ,Oldsmobile and Pontiacs ar the greatest Asset to GM performance that’s my say

      Reply
  16. Would be nice to see Pontiac back to life as an EV co. Love both my Solstice GXPs and would totally get a Tesla killer EV Solstice. j/s

    Reply
  17. I too have had several Pontiacs .
    60 Catalina.
    66 Catalina
    73 Grand Prix
    77 Bonneville
    84 6000STE
    and still own a 06 GTO

    Reply
    1. If I had a 06 GTO I would not want to look at it!!!
      Just quick jump in it and mash the throttle.

      Reply
    2. I only mentioned my new ones, also had a 00 Grand Am, and 07 Solstice so we’ve had 6 including 4 new.

      Reply
  18. Very sad to see an iconic nameplate and one time great GM division mismanaged into oblivion. Great models that were standouts, Catalina, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Tempest, GTO, Firebird, etc. The managers after the Knudsens and DeLorean sadly mismanaged it to a death. God, please forgive them.

    Where or where have all the great car people gone?

    Reply
  19. Pontiac was and always be the best car GM ever made.The lines are so sleek and we love all of them.My brother has a G8 and you wouldn’t believe the compliments he gets.we have always driven Pontiacs am The best car ever.

    Reply
    1. I have owned 3 Pontiacs…All 3 had well over 350,000 miles on them. Never let me down! Very few mechanical issues hardly had to replace any parts other than the normal brake pads and occasional starter or alternator. Totally reliable…I love pontiac!!!! I would buy one again and again!

      Reply
  20. I still have and love my 2006 Solstice.
    Still have people comment on its great look.

    Reply
  21. I owned several Pontiacs; all great cars. Too bad it was abandoned due to political reasons.

    Reply
    1. At the time, Pontiac was a part of most Buick-GMC dealers so it was not much of a financial load from a marketing point if view. The G6 for one would have been a nice compliment to those dealers because was moving about 8-10k units a month before the plug was pulled.

      Reply
      1. Tigger:

        Half of those 8-10k G6’s were going to Hertz, Budget, and Avis.

        Reply
  22. Stop badmouthing the Aztek. Every midsized SUV today looks almost like it. We ordered ours new in 2004 and it has never had any major repairs. It will turn 200k before it’s next oil change. My family was a Pontiac dealer from 72 to 95.

    Reply
    1. Greg:

      Aztec also popularized as Walter White’s vehicle in the hugely popular crime drama, BREAKING BAD on Netflix.

      Reply
    2. Greg. I agree. I know several people who had and loved their Aztek’s. Drove the wheels off them. As for the style, maybe Pontiac/GM was just ahead of the times? Heck, Volvo offers an EV called the C40 and it’s not that much different from the Aztek. Come to think about it, nearly every box SUV/CUV on the road today looks the same to me. I think the Aztek’s slightly different styling would be a break from those boxes today.

      Reply
  23. I Have a 2008 G8 3.6 transmission is bad though 🙁

    Reply
  24. You can always count on GM to kill a good thing.
    Far better than Chevys, so let’s get rid of the competition that’s always been the better model….

    Reply
    1. Larry:

      Pontiacs WERE Chevys. They weren’t “far better”.

      Reply
      1. That depends on the era and the location. Before 1977 GM makes had unique drivetrains and clear styling differences, though there was some engine sharing. Canadian Pontiacs definitely were Chevys under the sheetmetal.

        Reply
        1. How true.
          I think the Olds V8 was the most reliable and GM must have felt that way also because it stayed in production almost as long as SB.

          Reply
  25. Just recently lost my 2004 Vibe in March 2022 due to being totaled by an @$$hole driver pulling out in front of me. Loved that old Neptune Blue. Great vehicle that had one owner (me) from brand new till then.

    Reply
    1. The best Pontiac Toyota ever made. Yes, it was a good car.

      Reply
  26. This car is alive and well in Mexico.

    Last reported mileage in the US was 87,687. It was exported 02/2016 down south and looks to still be getting around.

    Reply
  27. I own a 2005 grand am gt , 389,462 miles on it currently, and still going strong, no engine work done to it , no transmission work done to it , hell it still has the original alternator . Say what you want about Pontiacs, I would buy a new one in a heartbeat, if gm brought them back . I bought this one new , only had 42 test drive miles on it when I bought it . Done a few fuel pumps , a few power steering pumps and a rack and pinion on it , but other than that just basic maintenance items .

    Reply
  28. I can’t help but admire every G8 I meet nowadays. There are many of the Holden police cars still in use in our region.
    My only Pontiac was a ’79 Trans Am T/A 6.6, factory-ordered. I kept it 14 years before selling it to a used car dealer who put it in car shows.

    Reply
    1. Despite being slammed by GM and almost cancelled as a division at that time, Pontiac was the only brand to try and keep the Musle Car era on life support as long as it was.

      Reply
  29. Growing up, my father always drove Pontiac’s in ’67 my older brother bought a new Tempest Custom with a four speed and the 326 motor. After several years he decided to buy a 55 Chevrolet so I bought his Tempest and I still have it today. I also have a ’09 Pontiac G8 GXP 6 speed with 9600 miles on it. It does not get driven in the rain, only sunny days. It is faster than my ’04 Corvette. Like many here I have a ’67 GTO and Lemans. I would like to see Pontiac make a return, but I don’t think that is likely to happen.

    Reply
  30. I find it a bit odd that everyone is ok with the comment that the government made GM kill 4 brands. It wasn’t like that, GM decided to kill the brands, just like it did Oldsmobile. W can blame the government for many things but some reason this one, which is slipped into about 80% of every Saab/Saturn/Pontiac story since 2010, is incorrect. GM leadership picked these brands.

    Not sure who had their hands in the jars after 2000, but from the outside looking in, Pontiac went from “Grand Prix” to *G8*, and Saturn went from “SL2” to “Ion” pretty much taking their models which has street cred and making both brands appear to have new untested vehicles in their lineups. If the new names were to actual new cars with new tech then great – market accordingly. But in this case GM, not the government, set up those two brands for failure.

    Reply
    1. The government was very much telling GM what to do during the bankruptcy. That’s how that works. There was some back and forth, like convincing them that GMC should be allowed to live, but if you think GM was allowed to just take the money and carry on, you’re imagining things.

      Reply
    2. I feel Lutz helped to kill the Po tiac division with the “G” this and that naming system. This has been a problem with the domestics for decades. For generations everyone knew what a Camry, Accord, Corolla, etc were. GM has to educate customers that the G6 was a replacement for the Grand Am, Lucerne was a replacement for the LeSabre, and the CT5 was a replacement for the STS which was a replacement for the Seville, etc.

      Reply
      1. Names don’t kill cars the lack of money and the lack of real performance at a Performance division kills brands.

        The G8, GTO and Solstice all came way too late and the FWD cars alone would not save the day.

        A great car can sell no matter what the name if it is a great car. Most of what Pontiac had was just restyled Chevys at a higher price.

        Imagine if all the 4th Gen Trans Am’s had their own tune and HP over the Chevy? They did with the Turbo TA Buick engines but they were limited. Pontiac wanted to do things like that but GM stopped them.

        Reply
  31. Here is a hood trivia question. What was the last all Pontiac Pontiac.

    The 1988 Fiero 4 cylinder.

    It was a Pontiac only model.

    It was built with the last designed Pontiac engine.

    It was built in Pontiac Michigan and was the last Pontiac built there.

    You don’t get more Pontiac than that.

    The V6 had the corporate 2.8. It was built to Pontiac only specs with the HO heads and cam with its own intake and closed loose computer system. It even had Pontiac only tubular Stainless exhaust.

    Reply
  32. I have owned 3 Pontiacs…All 3 had well over 350,000 miles on them. Never let me down! Very few mechanical issues hardly had to replace any parts other than the normal brake pads and occasional starter or alternator. Totally reliable…I love pontiac!!!! I would buy one again and again!

    Reply
  33. My ex-wife and I owned a 2009 Pontiac torrent. It was a good car. 3.4 motor. She took it in our divorce. From what I’ve heard, her and her friend was driving in NC when the head gasket went. I guess that’s all it took. Motor was junk,or so they were told. They traded it in for another vehicle. I’m glad she took it. I thought there was something wrong with it.

    Reply
  34. Turn of the 20th century? That was 120 some-odd years ago. How about the turn of the 21st century?

    Reply
  35. P.s. I still own my 1968 GTO convertible. It’s on blocks, but will start restoration next year. I’m the original owner.

    Reply
  36. C8.R

    Gran Turismo Omologata, aka GTO, was so hot and popular thanks to John Z. DeLorean, RIP, who was one of the few GM managers with style and panache. The rest looked like funeral directors in dark suits. DeLorean made the heyday of Pontiac along with father and son Knudsen.

    The Beach Boys even popularized the GTO in songs. Ford was caught with their pants down and came out with the Gran Torino. GM even had to retool their Fremont, California assembly plant to pump out Goats and Judges for the Western demand. Now this same facility is pumping out Tesla’s for the Geeks and Liberal crowd.
    So sad that the wide track Pontiac and a division which gave birth to innovation and design died from mismanagement. God please forgive them for they did not know what they were doing.

    Reply
    1. Well John only worked with Bunkie Jr as SR retired.

      Beach Boys missed the GTO as another group did that song.

      Ford was not exactly out of it. They had more focus on a car called the Mustang. You may have heard of it. They did better than well with it.

      Today most performance cars are holding on by a thread. The Challanger, Mustang and Camaro combine don’t as many as the GTO sold in one year. In fact almost half what they sold.

      The markets changed. It used to be you could sell performance to anyone today not so much.

      Trucks and Jeeps are where most of the market is. When I got into the performance aftermarket everything was Camaro and 5.0 Mustangs. Today trucks and Wrangles are paying the bills,

      Reply
  37. It’s too bad that GM had to get rid of Pontiac. I think if they had looked forward a couple more years and branded the G6 back to a Grand Am and brought back the Trans Am and Grand Prix, the division could have been a very viable (and higher quality) competitor to Dodge.

    Reply
  38. I have a 06 Solstice and love it great car and it has 54,000 miles on it

    Reply
    1. Good car and will be collectable with the low numbers. The coupe especially.

      Reply
  39. If they made the 2004 GTO look like the original, the company would still exist!!!!

    Reply
    1. Sadly that would not have saved them.

      Today performance cars are no longer divisions just niche cars that will have to change to survive.

      The Camaro survived as it still has a Chevy engine. Pontiac lost its heartbyears ago. Coming up the Hemi is dying and the Camaro and Mustang will have to find a way to live in an EV world.

      They will be fast but they will not be powered by Chevy or Ford.

      Reply
  40. I have a 09 G8 GT and it is an awesome car. A few tasteful mods and it makes an excellent sleeper.

    Reply
  41. BEST CARS EVER!!!! My first car was a 2001 Pontiac Grand AM named Savannah Joye Lynn😊. That car got me through college and the first few years of adulthood. She was durable and I ROOOOODE!
    If there was ever a special edition; I’m buying but it’s gotta have the iconic 💪🏾💪🏾 Pontiac is known for.

    Reply
  42. This car resides in Mexico as of 2020

    Reply
  43. Its both sad and incredible that the last Pontiac ever made was a white G6 with a base 4 banger. You would think that a long storied brand like Pontiac would have at least been sold with some special editions of the last 500 of each model like Oldsmobile did back in 2002-2004 with their existing models such as the Intrigue, Aurora and Alero to name a few! Just shows how little they really care about their vehicles and customers!

    Reply
  44. The Aztec Heisenberg edition was a great car

    Reply
  45. My first Pontiac was picking up my perents 55 star chief from Phil Amogone Pontiac in Buffalo NY ! I had just turned 4 years old! It was torques and white 4 door with leather interior. In October of 1955! I remember the salesman giving me a dealer promo exactly like mom& dads car! Which I still have today! My first car was a 63 tempest lemans convertible I traded for a lawn more for! I took my road test in moms 63 Grand Prix with a 421 tri- power. Which I ended up with in 69 ! Then I got a 64 GP and after that a 67. GP! Then in 72 I got 68 GTO 2 dr post the car was loaded except it had a bench seat deleat and a chrome front bumper very rare optioned car! It had the highest GP 400 in it w/ cast iron long tube headers , from factory I came to find out that tha chrome bumper was 15 lbs lighter than the endurance bumper! Then I ordered a 72 GP SJ new from Austen Pontiac which was originally Amogone Pontiac drove that 2 years till I bought a 73 SJ left over I’m March of 74 during the gas crisis! It had every available option except a stick transmission and no sunroof! Drove that until early 78 I bought a dealer demo from Austin Pontiac had that car 89 where my Grand Prix story ended it had 215000 miles with original engine and transmission! Secret was 30w pennsoil every 2500 miles and change trans fluid every year!
    I traded that Grand Prix for a 89 Bonneville SE which I got 400000 miles out of that 3800 engine with same results! And now I just bought a 2006 G6 GT coupe w/ 156000 mi on it!it’s a good solid car the 3500 engine is solid and expect to go to 300000 mi! I’ve had classic Pontiac’s over the years a 64 Catalina 2+2 65 GTO, and many more!

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    1. That’s remarkable. My grandpa had a ’55 Star Chief, which influenced my dad to buy a ’59 Catalina.

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  46. Fred Garvin:

    I hope they enshrined the Aztec Heisenberg edition in a museum. Bill Harrah, RIP, would have given his eye teeth for it. This is Americana at it’s finest. Also, Vince Gilligan did a superb job in depicting the bad actors in present day America. Kudos and accolades to all.

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  47. I have a 09 pontiac g6 and I love it.
    I had to have my transmission replaced but it was worth it.

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  48. All I know is Pontiac fed me, kept me clothed & gave me insurance coverage over my entire life. My dad worked for Pontiac 40 yrs. I’ve had ford’s, Olds, Buick & Chevy’s over my 58 yrs. The fastest, coolest & longest lasting w/o rusting out & breaking down was the PONTIAC’s!!! So mad that I gave in and sold my last G-6 (2006)! It’s still hauling down M-59 with ease & motor still growling! My favorite is a 65 GTO or a 76 Grand Prix! Bring back PONTIAC!!!

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  49. We still have our 1968 pontiac firebird 400 4 speed convertable.. # 51 off the assembly line.. even though pontiac is no longer, these old cars prove that pontiac made some great cars in the day!!

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  50. I was reading down the list here and so many people loved their 90’s and 80’s Pontiacs but so few have comments on experience with the Pontiacs of the real Pontiac era.

    I wish more has hands on experience with the cars from 57-79. These cars were amazing as while they shared some things with Chevy they really were their own thing.

    The first gen Firebird was really changed as much as they could under GM’s direction. We all know they had different engines but they came with Hurst Shifters in most applications including the 3 speed. The cars were one inch lower and had larger tires. They had built in traction bars one for automatic and two for the manual cars. They had their own tuning on suspensions by Herb Adams.

    These differences and changes were though the Pontiac line. You payed more but generally you got more with the Pontiac.

    The Grand Prix was build on the same frame as the Monte Carlo. But the car was much more different. It was better handling, riding and faster with engines up to a 428 HO that was very common unlike the Monte SS that was rare. You could clear 130 MPH and it was a stone solid ride.

    I have been lucky to be around a number of collectors and have ridden and driven most of the great Pontiac cars of this early era. Many do not know what they missed.

    Did you know Pontiac had a 421 SOHC and DOHC with FI built but GM killed it. They had plans for 4 wheel disc brakes in 1965 for the GTO but GM killed it. They had composite headlamps they tried to get approved it was killed. Radial tires were planned in the late 60’s again killed. Electronic ignitions showed up in the 60’s and early 70’s but was limited.

    They did offer a SOHC I6 and a number of special engines over the years. The 455 SD was a 12 second car even on low compression in the 73-74 era. GM killed it.

    The band of engineers Delorean brought together were still there when he left. They also had John Schinella as a designer and they all broke rules. Some got mad and left others fought right till they retired.

    The Bandit TA was rejected with the bird on the hood. John Schinella took the car and painted to match Mitchells John Player Norton Motorcycle. It got approved then. The Fiero was canceled several time and they never gave up. The engineering was sent to an outside firm to hide it and then the car was sold as a commuter car with the full intentions of a sports car. Rules were broken and many people got mad and Chevy and the Corvette people killed the car on risky mistakes the Pontiac people took to get the car in production. The Fiero was the last project for a number of these engineers as they retired.

    The last rebel car was the 87 Pace car with the Buick turbo in a TA.

    GM never could figure out how to get the divisions to work together and compliment each other and they never understood the Pontiac line.

    While the later cars were better than Chevys cars they were still not really Pontiacs outside the styling. They tried to do things but they just never reached production.

    Lutz knew what to do but it was too late and there was just no money. In todays market there is just no room for that many divisions anymore. Add that to a slowing performance market. I hate to say it but Killing Pontiac was the right thing at the time vs letting them linger into a worse rep. At least now people still hold a positive image and if there is a opportunity the name could come back.

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    1. 70 1/2 Firebird formula it has some scratches but it is not going to get repainted.
      Sure wish the dealer or original owner would have checked the ram air box.

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  51. Yes you spoke about the many first innovations Pontiac had done over the years but you forgot to mention Malcom Mckeller he was the engine genius. He was the guy that both Bunkie Kunson and Jon Delorin both turned to for Pontiac engine power. I knew Mac and he told me things that are hard to find in Pontiac history! Fact #1 he was the brain be hind the small block Chevy engine. That engine was developed at Pontiac. But in 1953 GM corprate told Pontiac to hand it over to Chevy. So that when Mac went to work on the Pontiac engine developed it in less than a year and was ready for the 55 model year. He was also instrumental in the tripower setup! In the OHC 6 and was developing a DOHC 421! Also the 366 cams he worked with Vic Edelbrock on cams and the Pontiac intake manifolds that were used and sold with Pontiac part numbers.if you set a first generation chev 265 ci and a 287 Pontiac side by side you can see the similarities in design. And I will make this statement of fact “ there is No such thing as a small block or a big Block Pontiac engine. There’s one size block in size! The 287, the 316 , 347, 389,326,350,400, 421,428 and 455 were all physically the same size.with in a 16th of an inch! But read up on Mac Mckeller, Hemmings motor news did a grate artical on Mac.

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    1. No I did not forget Mac. He is the Engine master at Pontiac and cam master. He developed most of the best engines. His 63 GP still has the OHC 421 in it. I hot yo meet him years ago before he passed.

      He even did the slant 4 and worked much with Mickey Thompson.

      But if you get into the engineers Pontiac had a large group of great engineers. Herb Adam the creator of the Trans Am did many great things at Pontiac from Suspensions to engines like the 455 SD. He even converted his wife’s 64 Lemans into a Trans Am Racer. They almost beat Penske and Mark Donahue at one race. His crew were a number of Pontiac engineers.

      The heart of Pontiac was the engines but when the last 400 was built it went down hill from there. They tried yo be different but were force to use corporate engines.

      As for Mac on the Chevy small block he may have had a small role as he is not credited with that. I never heard of him on Ed Coles team.

      Goad was another guy at Pontiac that really made Pontiac handle and he even raced to several championships for Pontiac in SCCA.

      Pontiac was an engineers division

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  52. C8.R

    Time for you to memorialize your very interesting history of latter day Pontiac and is long painful death in a book for industry fans, the business school crowd, and the those in this complex industry that crave insight into success and failure. Am enjoying all your comments which from my experiences are spot on.

    I know that GM will not underwrite this project because they have too much egg on their face. Maybe you can get that school in Ann Arbor to participate.

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    1. I have talked with another Fiero historian about putting together the true story on what all happened. It would be much easier today as you can now self publish.

      I would like to get this together to leave a true story stop all the false info out there from becoming fact.

      Much what I know of GM is from my own business experience and from what people at GM either told me or have already written. There are a number of good books on GM already out. Johns book, The Lutz book Another called Comback. etc.

      Many with in GM mostly have spoken off record as they fear pay back. That is going away but many involved are passing away.

      We may get to the Fiero book at some point as it is a great snap shot of what was wrong at GM. Many would be surprised at the things they heard were wrong but the truth is nearly as shocking.

      I recall being at an event at the Pontiac headquarters and the 1990 Fiero was promised to be displayed. At the last min John Middlebrook was threatened not to pull the car out at the risk of his job. There were still so many sore feelings at GM, Pontiac and with the UAW they did not want to pour gas on the wound.

      At the dinner that night John Shinella brought slides of the car and said they were not to be shown but he did not care. He was close to retire and high enough up that he did it. The photos later were released in a magazine quietly.

      Soon after the 1990 coupes were crushed and only the one 1990 GT is left in the GM collection. I have the nose emblem from the coupes and one from the GT. Which is funny as the car GM has uses a GTA emblem as GM no longer has a correct emblem I know only of 3 and a possible 4th one.

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    2. One bit of information I would to kill is the Lotus designed suspension on the 88 Fiero. The truth is GM designed the suspension and Goad the engineer was very proud of it.

      Pontiac did hire Porsche engineering to come in and tune the suspension for turn in and on center feel due to their work in the 911 with now power steering.

      Pontiac had two 2.9 turbo Fieros that had tail lamps that lighted up from black to say Porsche Eater with the brakes on. Both cars exist yet today but the lights were removed to not offend the Porsche folks.

      Remember this was at the time Corvette/Camaro was locked in major SCCA racing showroom stock with Porsche.

      That was how divided GM was.

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  53. “For a brand as iconic Pontiac, it’s downright tragic…”

    Hardly! The short and infamous life of this G6 meshes perfectly with the history of Pontiac vehicles.

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    1. Let’s just say Pontiac fell very far. I’m just glad people have restored GTOs, Firebirds, Grand Prix, and other golden age cars or kept the survivors going. That’s how I want to remember the arrowhead division.

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  54. I still have a Pontiac G6 2006, 226,389 miles and it still is my primary car.
    Love my car!

    Reply

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