Biden Administration Defines Nationwide EV Charging Station Strategy
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The Biden administration recently outlined how it will go about building a new nationwide network of EV charging stations. The new nationwide EV charging network will be built as part of the $1 trillion Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
The strategy involves the creation of a joint office between the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Department Transportation, with the bill earmarking $7.5 billion to build 500,000 new EV charging stations around the U.S. That $7.5 billion includes $5 billion for states to build out the charging network, and $2.5 billion in local grants to provide support for EV charging in rural and disadvantaged communities. The bill also includes $65 billion to bolster the national electricity grid.
This coming February, the Department of Transportation will release guidance for states and cities regarding the strategic deployment of the new EV charging stations. Then in May, the DOT will release new standards for EV chargers “to ensure they work, they’re safe, and they’re accessible to everyone.”
According to the White House, the current EV grid includes some 100,000 public chargers with an array of different plugs, payment options, data availability, and hardware. “Today’s actions will establish a more uniform approach, provide greater convenience for customers, and offer increased confidence for industry,” the White House states.
Previously, the Biden administration set the goal of establishing 50 percent electric vehicle sale shares in the U.S. by 2030. The Biden administration hopes to accelerate the mass adoption of electric vehicles in the United States by supporting manufacturing as well, but will also need the infrastructure to help support EVs.
Earlier this month, President Biden signed an executive order calling for the federal government to stop the purchase of internal combustion-powered vehicles by 2035, with the White House stating that it should “lead by example in order to achieve a carbon pollution-free electricity sector by 2035 and net-zero emissions economy-wide by no later than 2050.”
The Biden administration’s push for EVs comes amid GM’s promise to transition to all-electric vehicles, with plans to launch 30 new electric vehicle models globally by 2025.
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I still have no idea how they believe the current grid infrastructure will handle it – whether it’s power transmission or power creation. All this stuff works fine when their aren’t many of them. But throw ev load onto the current system and it will break.
The average electric vehicle requires 30 kilowatt-hours to travel 100 miles — the same amount of electricity an average American home uses each day to run appliances, computers, lights and heating and air conditioning.
This will be the biggest impediment to mass ev adoption.
Charging overnight is going to be the norm when most home owners are asleep. That will balance the power for now. There are experimental programs, including bi-directional charging (the grid will suck power from fully charged EVs to give to other EVs). Finally, more power generators will be built as needed. EV adoption is slow, so it won’t strain the system as of now.
Whoa whoa whoa,,, what!?!?!? Bi directional???? That’s insane, as you convert the battery 400v DC to 220 AC loose 5-10% as heat, transform to 14KV, loose 3%, transmit over power lines, loose 1%, transform back to 220, loose 3% and then convert pack to DC, loose 5%. Were trying to not waste precious energy here.
Also, it’s not like houses use less energy at night. Unless you got a huge mega TV that uses 5000w when your awake the vast majority of house consumption is done by #1 HVAC, #2 water heaters. Close behind that is your refrigerator which runs all the time. Since the adoption of LED, lighting is almost none of your load, and unless you run a full blown server, media and electronics don’t even cut it. Most people might see a 10% decrease in load overnight, which your then going to double with a single EV. So a 2 EV household eletric demand will need to be 200-250% our current grid capacity
Jake you are WAY, WAY overstating the case…. I don’t know where you live, but in the Northern States, unless we use an inordinate amount of electric heating – our monthly usage is very low – and I have 3 evs which I have to charge everyday – on my home’s 62 year old tiny electrical service – NEVER MODERNIZED…
Of course, I’ve converted my large hot tub and kitchen cooktop and wall oven to GAS (the dryer was already gas) so that I would have more than enough electricity to charge the 3 evs…. I usually charge 2 of them on ‘110’, and have a 3.6 kw wallbox for the quick charging… Meanwhile my neighbor, with ICE vehicles, has a much higher peak demand of electricity than I do since she has an electric stove and electric dryer – IT IS MUCH MORE difficult for the Utility to supply her than me, and I have a central air conditioner (additional 15 amperes) in the summertime even though she does not….
I don’t hear Chicken Littles complain about energy hog old school frost free refrigerators, or large electric appliances…. One thing though – an Electric Water HEATER is usually the WORST offender as to skyrocketing the electric bill, and if anyone has utility gas it is absolutely brain dead to have one, when natural gas is typically 1/3rd the cost. 80% of charging in general takes place over the midnight hours which BENEFITS the grid, and also greatly improves the longevity and efficiency of Central Stations…. I expect electricity rate decreases – the more evs there are – even though people’s monthly usage will increase. But they’ll only pay 1/2 to 1/3rd of the price they’d pay at the gas station.
The other thing is that ICE usage might decrease, but in no way will be totally eliminated.
So…you’re saying that you’ve converted your hot tub, cook top, oven and water heater TO gas so that you would have excess power to charge the batteries in your electric car – which you converted FROM gas? Besides giving car dealers and appliance retailers an exceptional Christmas, what did you accomplish??
Hey Chief : Absolutely Brilliant Commentary… I did all of the above 10 years ago.
Uh – Chief – The cars replaced (after being fully amortized) ran on GASOLINE. The GAS I was referring to was UTILITY NATURAL GAS (almost all METHANE).
Unlike most of the Big Shots, I bought simple – reliable, cost-effective products (self-installed) when I purchased my now 62 year old home about 11 years ago. The 2 gas lines I needed to run were low-cost, since I did all the work myself. I donated my old electric wall oven and electric cooktop to Habitat for Humanity – so they were not wasted either. Both were cheap replacements for the actual original Electrics, and the Methane powered replacements are much more respectful of the Colonial Kitchen’s original Styling..
The oven and cooktop had 2 runs of HUGE 65 ampere wiring (#6 CU RH) each – and these were not discarded… they were relocated and extended to the attached garage area where they provide all the power necessary for an 8 x 10 hot tub (later converted to natural gas – NOT GASOLINE), and 3 evs.
I also did *NOT* do silly bathroom nor kitchen remodels that waste another $30,000 or so dollars… The original Home is a Beautiful Colonial (efficient shape) with Douglas Fir (christmas tree) framing, and Blonde Oak interiors – along with decorative, detailed Cornice work in the original Kitchen. Out of date for the present Trendy Kitchens – but in 10 years with fads being what they are, the Trendy Remodels will be more out-of-date than the timeless elegance of mine.
Natural gas or gasoline, they both create CO2 when being burned. And as we are told, CO2 kills polar bears. So the irony is still there.
Man are you out of date BorisG491
There are now 4 times as many Polar Bears as there were 50 years ago. Also the Arctic Ice Extent is nearing a modern record currently for thickness – not that it matters since
POLAR BEARS CAN SWIM NON-STOP 50 MILES.
“CO2 kills Polar Bears….” – Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we?
Bill, I will tell you the Berkeley transplant geniuses that owned my home previously (creative, beautiful human beings they were, just didn’t think things through) converted the water heaters from propane to electricity in the early 2000’s when they installed the giant solar panels with fancy Deutsches inverters (now failing) that make my yard look industrial chic but do practically nothing to reduce the electricity bill. These panels would completely fill the average suburban backyard yet I pay between $2.00-$10.00 per month to PG&E, then at the end of the year they sock it to me with a $1,700.00 to $2,200.00 “true-up” electricity bill. It’s insane.
This is the typical outcome of do-gooder environmentalists totally failing to see the big picture. I hate these electric water heaters they installed (mistakenly thinking solar would pay for it) with a passion and will convert the one that serves the main house back to propane when it fails. Since getting propane to the garage would be more trouble than it’s worth, I’m in the process of adding a 208/240V circuit to support a tankless commercial instant hot water heater out there. It made absolutely no sense to install a ridiculous 125V 19 gallon residential electric tank water heater for a washing machine and a utility sink. That thing sucks power 24/7 unnecessarily.
Too many tree huggers with good intentions seeking Green cred creating the most inefficient, power wasting environments that only “seem” Green to obsessed so called environmentalists (like the current administration) who luckily don’t have to pay for it. Meanwhile, propane’s comparatively cheap, clean, efficient and underrated.
I can respect your well thought out home and fuel decisions. I have carefully preserved the timeless originality of my early 1980s Sea Ranch inspired home. Why are people so gullible? So driven to follow mindless “trends”? What’s wrong with original, well kept vintage fixtures, finishes and style? It’s very comforting to know that everything in my house was built before the downfall of America to globalism which has since turned most of what’s sold to US consumers into Made in China sh!t. The few offending Made in China pieces including cheap replacement plumbing and lighting fixtures installed by the Berkleyites have since been updated with premium quality new old stock Made in USA period correct items.
The biggest problem with America is foolish Americans – far too many would sell their own grandma into the sex trades or put their neighbor out of work without a second thought just to save a lousy fifty bucks. Collectively, they are killing this country.
IB:
Yes, it makes no real sense to throw out perfectly good, stylish, functional, and efficient equipment..
Unfortunately, propane prices here have skyrocketed since Biden shut down one of the pipelines, – and while Propane has always been a bit expensive – it is much more so now that the supply is severely limited and it must be trucked in from much further distances than before.
Old school storage water heaters are never in vogue anymore, but I still like them… I have a $189 (plus tax) 50 gallon model with roughly 5 years on it that I’ve reinstalled at my personal house, that I picked up at a scratch and dent sale, which works just fine. I set the temperature to the hottest I need it for a hot shower, and no hotter. The only hotter water I need is for the Dishwasher, but it has a ‘boost’ function that runs an 800 watt heater to heat the water beyond what my water heater heats it to. Setting the water heater to a relatively low temperature greatly improves its efficiency since there is little temperature difference between ambient air, and the tank temperature – therefore there is almost no ‘Chimney Effect’ cooling the tank during times when the burner is off… I then put $12 of insulation (another 6″) around the tank such that the tank will not cycle on in over 24 hours if there is no usage.
People would not believe how LOW my natural gas usage per month is – even though it is the majority of my energy usage for the entire house, with 8 gas appliances including the large boiler for the hot tub.
PhD PE,
You literally took the words right outta my mouth. It literally makes no sense to convert all of one’s appliances to gas so as to be able to convert all of a person’s vehicles from gas to electricity. Remember, natural gas is a fossil fuel too. All the right-thinking environmentalists know this and it too must be banned.
This is all beginning to sound so utterly foolish. It’s symbolism over substance. Virtue signaling at its highest order.
“…Natural Gas is a fossil fuel…”
Oh really? Methane – (Uh Chief – that’s what Natural Gas mostly is), is of such quantity on Saturn’s Moon TITAN that there is about 4000 years supply at current earthly consumption rates.
How much plant life and dinosaur life was up there to make 4000 years of CH4?
In California my thought is that its the power generation itself for the EVs that is the single weakest point. At times in summer heat waves our power companies have to resort to rolling blackouts and brownouts as it is. Add in the massive demand for EV power (any calculations anywhere based on current in-practice technology and compared to current total power usage??) and you have a problem Sherlock. especially for the haulers and travellers needing daytime recharges.
You have a problem today and that’s with Diablo Canyon still online and providing 10 percent of the state’s power. What happens when this last nuclear plant gets turned off?
California just got approval for five 30-MW gas-fired emergency generators to meet the state’s current power needs. The irony is that they are putting in place emergency generators using fossil fuels. Sounds like an admission to me that the pipe dream plan to power the state from wind mills in Palm Springs isn’t living up to the hype. The emergency decree is in addition to power imported into the state from the north and the west which amounts to about 30 percent of the state’s needs. Another irony: Although the power imported from the Pacific Northwest is generated by hydro, the juice sent in from Arizona and Utah through Path 46 are generated with coal, nuclear and natural gas; all sources California shuns.
So they’re struggling today and yet they’re pushing to add 15 million vehicles, currently run with gasoline, to their communal electricity tap. I’ve never harmed a tree and try to be green but I don’t see how any of this is going to work.
I didn’t endorse the bi-directional program and I don’t know its efficiency rating, but it uses special chargers and it’s being unrolled across the US, Canada, and the UK. It’s called Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) and they offer to pay owners for the energy. Energy companies are hoping it will offset power outages that stem from green energy without relying on fossil fuels.
While homes use a lot of energy, that’s partially offset by all of the businesses closed at night, so energy use is still down at nighttime — from homes and businesses. Since EV charging takes place at night, it will not put as much of a strain on the grid as if everyone replenished their energy during the day as done with ICE vehicles.
Joke of the day, the US climate czar John Kerry:
“I’ve become a flagrant light switch chaser whenever I walk through a room,” says John Kerry. He tells @flacqua how his role as U.S. Special Presidential Envoy for Climate has changed his lifestyle.
Yup – John Kerry is a Joke – no argument there.
He’s conscientiously offsetting the flagrant carbon emissions from his oft used private jet.
You need to take into account the energy transition that is underway, with a much larger focus on solar and wind which is intermittent. Also parking garages at multifamily buildings, their infrastructure cannot handle even remotely this stuff. We are talking massive upgrades at these facilities, massive load increases at every multifamily building, need new transformers on streets, new phase lines, upgraded substations. EE here, this won’t work at current projections which will inhibit its uptake.
Lastly, wait until hot summer days when the grid is already at full capacity. There will be no charging orders released. Tell me how Uber is going to work if it has Evs, or Amazon? This is all math. A disaster in a few years which will lead to a gas crunch as well.
Jake – the WOKE states can’t keep the electricity on with or without evs, and the utilities charge confiscatory pricing – so much so that people in general will see no advantage in those locales to get rid of their ICE vehicles, although they may revert to more economical efficient Hybrids.
Apartments and multi-family dwellings are an issue currently, and people there would usually do well to (if they want to save money), to pick up a 100% ICE powered efficient HYBRID, unless they have a cooperative landlord or Home Owner’s Association.
Those larger dwelling complexes in the future will have a KIOSK-Style area of the parking lot where all the electric charging will take place – to minimize what the electrician charges to feed this SINGLE area. In many places, this KIOSK will have its own ‘overhead’ (aka CHEAP) electric service unrelated to the huge CONDO/Apartment Complex, where people will give an authorization code to start charging for individual billing later. No where near the problem that you are describing.
Has anyone made an effort to unify all EV manufacturers into using UNIVERSAL plugs etc. so that all charging facilities use the same attachments as well? Or are we going down the same path of “brand-specific” connections??
Paul:
In my area the problem is not so much different connectors, since the overwhelming ‘standard’ appears to be a J1772 (for slow or medium speed charging) along with CCS1 (so called ‘type 1’ ) fast charging connectors…… Of course, Tesla does their own thing, so I cannot speak for them..
The big problem here is that the vendor’s super-chintzy docking stations (cord connectors are broken), or the docking station is ‘insane’, or for some other reason – the majority (over half) are broken…
Meanwhile Gas Station dispensers are usually 99% functional – I won’t say 100% since perhaps once a year you arrive at a station where one hose out of 20 doesn’t work.
It is a much GREATER technological FEAT to make Gas Stations vend product quickly and with 100% safety – if you’ve ever seen a car RAM a gas station full force the entire area is within seconds covered by fire-suppression dust.
It is beyond despicable that the relatively simple exercise of providing public electric car charging is in such a state of disrepair.
Now here is the only point that I will agree the Big Experts: They need to have public facilities that WORK.
The grid issue based on the engineers I have read is only an issue in some limited areas and most of these areas are set to be updated EV products or not.
Also the influx of the EV is going to come over time not all at once. This is all going to evolve over several decades.
The gas cars are not going to vanish over night and they may linger in sales longer depending on the rate or technology.
Many like to have us believe it is all coming overnight and it’s not.
c8.R- YES, YES….. All the uninitiated Chicken Littles see all kinds of problems, but then many of these people are very WASTEFUL of electricity in their personal lives in General. In my case with 3 evs, the majority of my electric bill is car-charging expense – but only because I have NO LARGE electric consumption otherwise – unless you count a 15 ampere Central Air conditioner… I have a relatively large home, and the reason this DINKY unit is adequate is because I’ve spent the money PASSIVELY on adequate insulation to make my heating and cooling requirements MINIMAL, and I simply do not need anything more than an 80,000 BTU/Hour GAS furnace, nor a 2 1/2 ton air conditioner, to fully dehumidify and cool the entire home. It is old – and when it comes time to replace it the new unit will use 12 amperes or less.
Actually, by far the majority of my home’s energy consumption is efficient, clean, and plentiful Natural Gas. At 1/3rd the price of electricity I get high-value from each Utility Dollar spent.
Bill im so glad you are ok I worry about you when I don’t see you comment for a while I know you have a bolt and I am concerned you might of burned alive.
Ken – Thanks I think.. In normal parlance that would be considered a ‘considerate empathetic letter’ but these comments on this blog in general bleed sarcasm.
If seriously meant, thank you, but I have little to worry about….
The chance of anything going wrong with my June 2022 BOLT EUV (traded in the 69,000 mile BOLT EV 2 weeks before a new battery was promised – but that’s okay since supposedly I’m getting new pouches for the new car also)
The 2022’s are much safer than the 2017’s which had much less likelihood of trouble than getting struck by lightning on the golf course…
There are TRULY much greater dangers to one’s health in every day life than current day Bolts. So please relax…. But it is a nice riding car, and while I liked my old Bolt I like the new larger one even more.
The only troubles I have with the car are little annoyances you have with any Chevy.
They are banning gas hookups in states now and I believe CA is banning gas during any renovation, meaning you need electric heat l/stove etc. That’s what you are missing, they are trying to ELECTRIFY everything at the same time while engaging on an energy power transition. Again it’s all math and the math foretells massive problems.
Here’s one on big rig Evs. Imagine 10 at a truck stop trying to charge at once. What do you think that load is? Do you think the existing infrastructure is prepared for fast charge for them? Imagine 10 1MWh batteries drawing at the same time. A tesla megacharger needs to be 13x to 26x a supercharger to replace range in 30 minutes. Yikes.
“California Banning….” etc…
Good for them. I just hope any people who flee the state for other states are not the IDIOTS who caused all the trouble in the first place.
Its called “Californication” – where those who flee begin corrupting formerly nice states that they now decide to ruin.
Let’s go Brandon! Charging stations in every home!
Currently in the US, 0.3 percent of vehicles on the road are electric. To take us from today to an all-EV (100 percent) future sounds like a giant challenge to me.
Although it is true that if mass adoption occurs, charging can oftentimes take place at night during off-peak hours where there is excess capacity. However, that will by no means always be the case. Vehicles will be charged during the day in August and there will be lots and lots of them plugged in on those hot and sunny days. A massive effort will thus be needed to expand our power grid and how will we do that? It’s not just the wires themselves or “the grid” but how do we create all that extra power? What kind of powerplants will we build? We can’t increase capacity with coal, or natural gas or any other fossil fuels that currently provide 60 percent of the nation’s energy. Those sources are out; too dirty. We could dot the landscape with nuclear power plants which currently provides 20 percent of our power but the state leading the charge on EVs, California, is closing Diablo Canyon, it’s last nuclear power plant because, well, nuclear is bad I guess. So what’s left? Wind power? Hydro? Geothermal? Those are currently not significant contributors to the grid. It’s hard to seen any of them or all of them collectively carrying the load.
So the plan is that we’re going to go from 0.3 to 100 percent EVs with no coal, no natural gas, no fossil fuel, and no nuclear power plants? And we’re gonna do this in ten years?
To add another complication, gm’s newest EV is 9,100 pound SUV with a utterly massive 200 kWh battery that takes a week or so to charge on 120 and then only runs 350 or so miles after sucking off the tap all that time. A week to charge from a grid that has had 80 percent of its supply sources outlawed, really? I’m not following how all this is going to work.
CI2Eye:
Utilities will have absolutely no trouble since the numbers of 9000 lb HUMMERS will be few and far between… 5 or 10 of them in one subdivision are easily handled, even if their drivers are high mileage.
As far as the WEST, its been PROVEN that WOKE states (and I’m including TEXAS as one of those states) can’t keep their lights on with or without ev’s. The idiot decisions made by Texas as one example practically GUARANTEED that they’d be without juice for a full week last winter at the first cold snap.
Even Elon Musk doesn’t want the government to do this.
Taking words out of context to suit your argument… silly
At the Wall Street Journal’s CEO Council Summit, Tesla CEO Elon Musk suggested that Biden’s spending bill be “deleted.” The bill includes up to a $12,500 tax credit for electric vehicles and subsidies for EV charging stations.
Well he has two reasons. One he wants no money to competitors that need it more than his company in getting started.
Also he wants less involvement by the government in a largely private venture. Who can blame him.
Obama tried this with solar companies like Solyndra. It didn’t go over well.
Many in the green industry are in it just for the government funding.
They take the money invest it and then disappear with their pay.
This whole deal needs to be private industry as if it depends on the give it will be highly controls by the government and we really don’t want more of that than we already have.
Just look at government control in the British auto industry.
Just watch the video of Kowmala Harris trying to charge a car. That is our EV Czar? She is even more clueless than a old man driving a Vette up and down his driveway for the last 40 years.
Only union shop EV’s are entitled the credit.
The “Tax Credit” doesn’t mean a thing to me and I’m sure thousands of other senior retired citizens as we don’t make enough each year to need to file income tax. The standard deduction eliminates that, so we can’t afford an EV. Also the range and recharging time has got to drastically improve before we can even think about one. Our families are scattered out so much that we can’t afford to spend several days and nights traveling and recharging to go see our grandchildren and great grandchildren. ICE will be with us the rest of our lives.
Bob: Good News !
As a Senior myself, I too do not have enough income to qualify for tax credits…. But they are changing to REFUNDABLE tax credits…So you’ll get a refund for buying an ev. I don’t feel guilty about that since I remember all the hundreds of thousands of dollars STOLEN from me by the federal government over my decades of working.
Why would anyone downvote this comment? Bill is absolutely correct. The federal government steals hundreds of thousands of dollars from all of us over our working lifetimes. Anyone can see the money has and is being squandered as our entrenched globalist controlled, thoroughly corrupt federal government runs amok destroying and destabilizing the country, its institutions, its history and the economy before our very eyes while steadily chipping away at the Constitution. All of this malfeasance and skyrocketing debt made possible by money stolen from US citizens by the world’s largest organized crime syndicate (the IRS) to fund a corrupt globalist machine that long ago stopped representing the core interest and values of the majority of US citizens.
Being a resident of California, my tax dollars also assist with mandates forcing me and my kids to be vaccinated against our will if we wish to hold a job or go to school (not happening, Gavin, homeschool here we come), defunding the police, rewriting laws to make non-violent crimes unpunishible (can you say crime wave?), providing needles and “safe spaces” for drug addicts to shoot up, human poop cleanup crews – and speaking of sh!t – denying our rights as homeowners to toilets that require less than 4 flushes to clear the bowl and shower heads that shower, gas ranges, incandescent light bulbs, and the simple pleasure of being able to walk into the bathroom at night without being blinded by a damned government mandated motion-sensor controlled Made in China LED light – the list of CA government lunacy and Nanny State infringement is endless.
All of it strengthens the argument to live in the country (thankfully, it’s literally ALL MAGA Country, btw), not to do that trendy Made in China remuddle in icky shades of gray your wife’s been obsessing about and to boycott the Big Box Corporations and buy vintage or hand Made in USA everything from small mom and pop businesses just trying to survive the onslaught like the rest of us living outside the rotting, stench-filled Blue Silicon Valley bubble.
Can I get an Amen?
Hahahaha!! “Bill is absolutely Correct (?)” Amen to that !!
yes ! bring back the good old PIPELINE !!!
Then put it into context for us.
Are you Elon secretary? How can you say it was taken out of context? You sure you aren’t trying to make it for your own narrative?
Paging Lesco, Lesco Brandon!
Come on man you know the electric thing.
Since I have nothing nice to say about the administration or leader mentioned in this article, I’ll do the right thing…
And you still got downvoted
Why do downvotes matter? Do you need a bunch of random strangers you don’t know and will never meet to make you feel good about yourself? Work on your self esteem bro.
It is almost like printing money has become the goto. I mean what is the worst that can happen, hyper inflation? Hmm, 9.6% PPL reading came out today for the latest 1 year reading. One way to look at a number like that if you have a 1M dollar nest egg is you just lost 100K.
A 100% electric PASSENGER vehicle fleet (completely excluding commercial vehicles), driving the same number of miles Americans drive today, will require more electricity than the US has generating capacity today. In other words, if we turned off all of the lights, air conditioners, heaters, computers, TVs, refrigerators, factories, elevators, etc. – EVERYTHING electric – there still wouldn’t be enough generation capacity to charge all the passenger cars.
Assuming we still want lights, A/C, computers, etc., IF we’re going to have a meaningful electric fleet, we have to more than double electric generating capacity, as well as transmission and distribution infrastructure – not to mention the charging stations Dementia Joe is putting out there now (with no electricity to supply them).
And what’s going to fuel the new generating stations?? Coal? Natural gas? Oil?
Jimmy Carter’s metric system conversion made more sense than this BS.
LMAOOOOO… that’s right. Electricity starts at the plug in for these people, not at factories that produce electricity. Ask China why they are building 3 coal plants defying the green steal deal. Afterall, they need power to build wind turbines and solar panels for the US….
Winter is around the corner and every year a greater demand for electricity increases. This winter be a telling tale if Brandonites plan will support weeks of cold weather.
You guys simply DO NOT REALIZE how LITTLE the average passenger car (30 miles per day) uses… 2 of my 3 EVs I charge at 8 amperes – so that’s around 950 watts per EV. It takes about 8 hours to replenish 30 miles worth of driving…
Between energy efficient refrigeration, CFLS and LEDs, these MORE than compensate for ONE ev, and the fact that most ev charging takes place when I’m sleeping means that IT IS A BENEFIT for the Grid. Central Station lifetimes are also greatly increased since Steam Turbine temperature DECREASES when the machinery is fully loaded.
In Case the PhD PE doesn’t believe me, look up Joule-Thompson Coefficient of Steam.
My data is based a) on the total number of passenger vehicle (non-commercial) miles driven annually in the US, b) the average watts-per-mile required to power electric vehicles (i.e 80% of published range divided by charge time X wattage required to take a vehichle from 20% to full charge), and, c) the DoE’s published total electrical generating capacity of all functioning generating stations in the US. The result is electrical generating capacity would need to increase by about 110% just to charge passenger vehicles, assuming zero peak demand periods. Holiday travel would wreck the model – I wouldn’t know where to begin calculating the additional power needed to charge vehicles traveling to grandma’s house for Thanksgiving. Recreation and towing also wreck the model – as we’re hearing Ford Lightning’s 350 mile range can drop into the double-digits when towing.
Personally, I “average” 178 miles/day – but some days I drive 0 miles, other days I drive 600 – and some of those 600 mile days are towing in mountains. Using the Lightning data, I couldn’t make it from Asheville to Knoxville without stopping for a couple of hours to recharge – but where…on the top of the mountain? Or, do I stop at the last charging station at the bottom of the mountain, and then coast into the one at the bottom of the other side? Oh, wait, I’ll just throw a Honda generator in the back to mitigate the discharge. That’ll keep things green…
Your calculations don’t apply to this universe… I don’t care what the Powers that Be say today to be trendy – Electric vehicles will simply not displace all the ICE vehicles unless governments do super silly things and ban them, and people like lemmings go along with them..
Most of the people in the fly over states won’t care what is banned or not, they’ll just keep doing what is in their best interest.
Why in the world don’t they let private industry deal with this? Every time I fill up my gas tank, no matter where I am, or what branded station I’m at, the equipment is the same. I’ve even filled up my car at many stations in Europe and all the pumps and nozzles are the same; Germany or the US, it’s no different. I’m not buying that unless government does this, there won’t be industry standardization. Why do we need the Feds spending a trillion dollars on this? Government hasn’t built gas stations. They don’t sell motor oil or propane tanks for gas grilles. Last time I bought batteries for anything, it wasn’t at a government office yet they think they have to build an energy delivery network for electric cars or it won’t happen. Elon Musk has built his own network. He didn’t need any help from Joe Biden.
Further, if they’re spending a trillion taxpayer dollars they are once again asking every American taxpayer to subsidize something that not everyone will use. At the very least, let the consumers of this product pay for the infrastructure – build the cost of the network into the per kWh rate. If I buy gasoline for my car, I’m paying for the pipeline that delivered that fuel too. This should be no different.
At the outset, I was somewhat ambivalent about EVs but with 9,100 monster trucks parading around as planet-saving vehicles and government trying to take over industries and take choices away, I am quickly becoming anti-EV. The whole purpose ostensibly is to benefit the environment but I do not believe that a grotesquely overweight Hummer EV is going to help the planet at all so what’s the real point?
Private industry won’t build it because it’s a losing investment – nobody wants their 401k invested in a project that isn’t sustainable (pun intended).
Everyone is green and socially conscious until it’s THEIR money or THEIR health that’s at risk – then this stuff matters. Too many people think it’s OPM when the government does it (and fails).
Because liberals think a bigger gov’t knows best and expects dependency with gov’t policies. A big gov’t controls how your money is spent – hands in your pocket.
Imagine Brandon being in charge of creating the Covid vaccine… They would take the gov’t bureaucratic path that typically takes 10 years and billions of dollars to the FDA.
To your concern, the last administration did let private industry compete and drive for a vaccine less than year with over 1 million vaccinated.
Brandon uses gov’t power to mandate and yet less than year has more covid affected than the previous year/last admin.
That’s the difference …
Don’t put too much credence onto this. Anything Biden touches turns to crap.
It’s called the “Biden Touch.” Polar opposite of the Midas Touch. And his handlers reward him with another ice cream cone.
Come on man! Joe can have the little kids rub the hair on his legs to generate the electricity needed.. This is a no brainier, perfect for Joe.
So here in Massachusetts our new power source is coming from Canadian Hydro via transmission lines through Maine. The only problem is the Maine voters in November said no way on a ballot question. Now we are being told here in New England to be prepared for rolling blackouts this winter if we have prolonged cold weather. Any thoughts Joe?
“Any thoughts, Joe?” Really? That’s hillarious. Maybe “Oh! Icecream!” That’s about it.
I read that and being in the midwest, I’m thinking Canada…but not being familiar with politics up there, why not a US power company… And then, that sucks. Good luck up there, El Nina forecasts heavy snow this winter.
Hey Gary! Have those lines been installed yet for Hydro? I’m Canadian so I may be biased, but Hydro power is the way to go. It’s green and almost never goes out due to a source issue.
Well unfortunately it does in drought. West hydro production down 14% from last year. Hoover down 25% and if the drought continues, Hoover could fall to 0.
ouf maybe we’re just spoiled up here.
Always follow the money…..everyone that isn’t a brainwashed, Democrat-cultist is aware of the Business connections between the Biden Family and Communist China. China leads the World in Lithium supply and dominates the extensive Lithium Processing Technology and Li Battery Manufacturing. Understand now why Biden is pushing EV’s down our throats…whether we want the darn things or not ? Mostly not ! Wondering when the usual gaggle of paid Trolls is going to discover this comment board and do their usual glorification of the EV fraud ?
We have a winner. This, like too many mandates of late, are for the benefit of the CCP – which is exactly the opposite of what someone who loves America would do.
Quick google to check out who leads in lithium supply. China being a DISTANT third place behind Australia and Chile. When you make nonsense statements at least make them make sense. People know how to use the internet. Took me legitimately 3 seconds to prove that wrong. The whole world is pushing EV, it’s not some Joe Biden agenda. Just because 80% of everything you use day to day is made in China isn’t the fault of your current admin. It’s been this way for decades.
Quick, pull your head out of Google and discover who leads the World in labor costs and the technology to do the extensive processing that Lithium extraction requires. China outproduces everyone ! Dumass, we’re talking about the ready supply of processed Lithium here, clown. China outproduces EVERYONE in the Manufacture and distribution of Li Batteries. Make sure you understand those undeniable facts as you try and spin your leftoid Google-garbage results ! Maybe your NONSENSE comment is because you’re a.) A Biden cultist. b.) a Demonrat cultist c.) a paid shill for the Lithium/EV Lobby d,) just an underinformed jerk. e.) all four !
You did not say that lmao you said China had the worlds biggest supply. They do not. They create the most, but they do not have the most raw materials, that title belongs to Australia as I said. Not everything is a political attack my guy, you seem very VERY insecure that you have to jump down my throat about it.
Exactly, billj598. Whoever mines the raw materials used in the batteries will own the future of electric vehicles, and that is currently China by a landslide.
If we become ‘addicted’ to EV’s, as our current administration so badly wants us to be, then we’ll be further beholden to China for yet another valuable resource (to add to food, medicine, and consumer goods).
Meanwhile China buys up interest in Rare Earth Mineral Mines all over Africa. They are playing the long game and we are playing right into their hands. We need to look at all energy sources, including hydrogen. the only way we will be able to travel long distances without waiting for charging is hydrogen fuel cells. going all in on batteries is short minded …and impossible. And whether we charge at off peak hours or not, we still need to generate that power, has to come from somewhere… we need to pump the breaks and take a broader look at this without shaming Nuclear and carbon sequestering Fossil Fuel Power plants.
It will be impossible to go on a trip of much length in a reasonable period of time. Can you imagine how long the lines would be on the interstates waiting to charge your vehicle?
I’ve not heard any mention of the effect on air travel. Is jet fuel going away with this plan? EV jets…….I don’t think so.
This argument is so annoying. They have new EV’s coming out that can do almost 550 miles on a charge. How often do you need to go 550 miles without stopping at all? Stop at a fast charger, eat some lunch, by the time you’re done you’re back at 80% battery and good to continue on.
Charge…what does that mean… a straight line under 75° weather with a 150lb driver?
Do you know how heavy EV’s are? The occupant weight won’t make much of an impact. Towing would obviously. And no, EV’s are actually less efficient on the highway than in traffic because of regenerative braking, so straight line highway is actually the least efficient an EV can be. I’m in my first Canadian winter with an EV and so far in the cold I’ve only noticed maybe a 5% reduction in charge?
Actually no. What reduces highway efficiency is wind resistance. Resistance is proportional to the square, so in town at 30 is more efficient than highway at 70. If you drove at 30 on the highway you’d go further. There is always some charge loss in accelerating/regen brake. And is your 5% loss from a full charge at home? How much loss do you sustain overnight (at temps less than -32C) without plugging in?
90% charge at home on 220v (because that’s what they recommend) Don’t know overnight loss at that temp, we haven’t hit peak winter temps yet but the car is parked indoors anyway so I don’t think I’d have an accurate measurement. But even up here in Montreal its RARELY -32C overnight. Days like that are few and far between.
Is it? So I recall in my 20’s we drove straight thru from LA to Utah. Ate in the car. Rotated drivers. In college I recall my roommates driving straight thru from Indiana to Utah. My brother and his wife (in their 60’s) still drive straight thru packing food and rotating drivers. Just because it does not inconvenience you does not mean it is not a problem.
That is an extreme exception. Poor college kids won’t be able to drive straight through without stopping, my heart bleeds.
Umm, I was an engineer in my 20’s when we did the Utah trip with 3 other engineers. There was no reason to stop. Time was short, and we wanted to go skiing not sightseeing. And my brother is certainly not a college student. So these are not uncommon exceptions but fairly broad situations. People wanting to get somewhere with multiple drivers to rotate. If we really wanted to cut carbon, maybe we’d tell the billionaires that space tourism is off the table. Or tell people who have private jets they can’t use them. Or people with giant yachts that get 100 gallons to the mile you can’t use them. My heart would bleed for them.
Listen we’re on the same page with this vanity space nonsense. Money would be better spent on literally anything else.
You live in Canada right not the US? First off go out Midwest there are plenty of places people travel to where they are driving long periods of time. Second nobody wants to hear about a $100k car now beat it troll
The average price now is what? 40K or more? 100k cars are not reserved for the rich. We talk about the new hummer all the time, that thing is like 150k lol
Who’s we?
imagine right now if everyone filling gas had to wait 25 minutes for their tank to fill… that is what all electric light vehicles would look like.
sdog4127
That’s what a Costco gas station is like now!
It looks like light aircraft will become electric eventually but anything hauling more than a few people not with current capabilities. For long-haul international travel jet fuel still reigns supreme and barring some other breakthrough will stay that way for quite awhile. A 747 gets about 1 mile out of 5 gallons at cruise; figuring 500 passengers (85% full) thats 100 miles per passenger gallon…………..
Didn’t Musk get fat on the gov’t teat? Now, my tax dollars are being used to enrich other businesses. Insane.
Yes he did. Every time I look at a 3 or Y, I just think a pig snout. Nostrils are the headlights. The Y in particular has the snout of a pig. Even the body is kind of pig like. They should have put the plug right in the center of the snout. Sucking the milk from the government.
I am buying diesels, heavy commercial vehicles, agriculture, and, construction equipment will be the last to convert to electricity, if ever so diesel fuel will be available for a long time.
Reliable Diesel is necessary for a modern prosperous Society.
Too much Chicken Little arguments here… I don’t see electrics even hitting 50% of a country’s auto fleet…. Other than areas with dirt cheap electricity such as Quebec.
A modern society needs Oil Refineries for all the associated products made from the output, and I’m saying that as someone with 3 plug-in evs.
Another thing: I don’t see hydrogen passenger cars going anywhere in the next several decades… Hydrogen was always ’50 years away’ 50 years ago, and still is now.
Car manufacturers apparently don’t know it, but they’ll be making ICE vehicles (even if all of them are HYBRIDS) for decades to come. TOYOTA has stated they will be ZERO emission by 2035 – which is 180 degrees apart from what they used to say – that there would be no electrics…Both statements are equally dumb..
Plant life NEEDS Carbon-Dioxide since it is Plant Food. They are currently STARVING for it since Hot Houses artificially increase its concentration for decent growth.
As far as Al Gore’s “THE EARTH HAS A FEVER !!!!!!!!!!!”, of course he was correct in predicting HUGE sea level rises (due to be here in the future – as soon as 2015 !)
Yea this will go about as good as he has done this year !!
At the turn of the century there was a meeting of all the mayors of the largest cities in America. The problem? Horse manure. Horse manure became a huge problem in urban areas. There were plans for large flushing systems, with systems to carry the poop away. Well, it all went away and by the1920’s the automobile pretty much replaced all the horses, and that was within a span of twenty years (Biden remembers. He was there during the transition). Anyway, my point is twenty years from now the ICE will be where the horse is today. The ICE will still be around but not used for daily transportation. As a car nut I can tell you that as much as I like a 427 Cobra I don’t live in the past. Like most people I’ve adapted pretty quickly to technology and use a cell phone, a 65″ flat screen TV, microwave oven, and yes even a laptop computer to write this reply. I firmly believe we will all be driving EV’s in the future. Brandon has really nothing to do with this a much as Elon Musk. Hate him or love him he’s the one who will change our society, much like Ford, Einstein, Bell, Edison, Jobs, Gates and yes even Sears. Wow, what a great country we live in!.
Exactly – Cars were the ‘Environmental’ Solution to increase Longevity, and modern 100% ICE vehicles are 50 times cleaner now even still.
Since ICE cars do such a great job at what they are doing, there will still be plenty of them Decades from now.
Any Auto company seriously planning for the total elimination of ICE vehicles will go bankrupt. I have 3 evs but I don’t live in a dream world.
Will the writer of this article please switch to some newer pictures of Biden? You use the same ones over and over.
Common man ….if China Joe approves, the run the other way. Let’s Go Brandon get your act together.