GM brands performed poorly in the 2021 J.D. Power Automotive Brand Loyalty Study, which attempts to rank brands based on how many returning customers they receive.
For this study, J.D. Power used its ‘Power Information Network’ data to calculate the percentage of vehicle owners that choose the same brand when trading in or purchasing their next vehicle. It then sorted this data by brand, ranking luxury and mass-market automakers based on how many owners purchased a vehicle from that brand after trading in an existing vehicle for a new vehicle.
Of the three mass-market GM brands, Chevy performed the best, with 49.2 percent of owners trading in their current Chevy vehicle for a new one. This placed Chevy in the middle of the pack among mass-market brands. GMC and Buick fared worse, with customer retention of 39 and 32.3 percent, respectively. Subaru led the way with 61.8 percent customer retention, followed by Toyota at 61.1 percent and Honda at 59.3 percent. Chrysler had the lowest customer retention at 14.6 percent.
Cadillac was ranked separately from the mass-market GM brands due to its status as a luxury automaker. Cadillac saw customer retention rates of 37.8 percent, the fifth-worst of the thirteen luxury brands included in the study. Lexus lead the way with retention of 51.6 percent, followed by Porsche at 50.2 percent and Mercedes-Benz and 47 percent.
J.D. Power says 2020 was a stronger than unusual year for customer retention, as consumers were unable to shop around and test drive vehicles due the COVID-19 pandemic. This led many car shoppers to stick with the dealership and brand they already knew in order to simplify the buying process.
“During the height of the lockdown, shoppers who were unable—or unwilling—to visit showrooms in-person weren’t shopping around as much but could still call a dealer and have a vehicle delivered to their homes,” said Tyson Jominy, vice president of data and analytics at J.D. Power. “The bottom line is finding a vehicle required working closely with a dealer and, when presented with obstacles, shoppers turned to the dealer they already knew. As a result, the level of increased loyalty this year is remarkable.”
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Comments
good news. gm’s customers aren’t sheeple like those toyota customers!!!!
Bad news. They left to buy other brands.
They went and bought a Toyota.
and by the looks of it, once you buy a toyota, you’ll probably remain a customer.
since toyota navigated this microchip shortage fairly well, they probably had more customers coming from other brands. another reason their share of the market is growing.
You’re right! Toyota, RAM–possibly the biggest threat to GM truck and, soon, truck-based profits–& growth brands like Hyundai and Kia.
Never thought I’d say this but maybe it is time to kill Buick as it’s only profitable as a China import brand. Envision, rebadged as a Chevrolet, with premium trim levels, would sell well for The Bowtie. Same is true of Encore GX. GM has had a decade to rebuild Buick and failed. Same is basically true over at Cadillac.
Barra must benchmark against Honda or Mazda especially with interior quality. Chevrolet must build a truck capable of winning every award monopolized by RAM. Chevrolet brand values must be more than bad credit and rental fleet.
How do you know whether Buick is profitable in the US? It’s GM’s biggest seller in China, so any sales here (it sells more than several brands) are icing on the cake.
Cadillac has had lots of money poured into it, with what results?
Cadriver
300,000 Toyota/Lexus Hybrids sold in the 1st half of the year.
Toyota fans are kind of stupid. Why else would they pay a premium for slow accelerating vehicles that don’t save gas on the highway.
I guess what you’re trying to say is that 53mpg highway isn’t very good.
Either that, or you’re just talking crap about something you don’t know anything about, which seems more likely.
The only thing I have against the Prius is that it looks so terrible, but it does get pretty amazing mileage, even on the highway.
Reported gas mileage
Prius gas mileage 54city/50hwy
CamryHybrid 51city/53hwy
RAV4Hybrid 41city/38hwy
VenzaHybrid 40city/37hwy
HighlanderHybrid 38city/35hwy
Camry’s fuel economy numbers don’t lineup with the rest of Toyota’s Hybrid models. They must be wrong. What I said still stands. Toyota’s hybrids don’t save you gas on the highway when compared to comparable ICE models.
No but they save you a ton more in the city which is why the combined is so much better. About the same on the highway and a ton more in the city. How hard is that to figure out? I would gladly take a hybrid as the city is the most wasteful time for gas and the instant torque of electric motors is awesome, not to mention it helps make the start stop transition even smoother.
Commonsense
If you live in the city you probably have a very short commute. I don’t think fuel efficiency would be your main concern.
Toyota in general seems to strive for ugly styling. The Lexus spool grille is hideous, yet, every Lexus seems to sell well and brand loyalty is high. Same with Toyota: the bigger Prius looks like something designed by the people who did the sets for the long-ago TV series, Space Patrol. The new van goes out of its way to look ghastly. But, they sell.
One of the reasons I, for one, won’t buy a Toyota is the dealer network. Warranty claims are hard to make because “Toyotas are perfect; it’s something YOU did, we are denying your claim”, like they did with the oil sludging problem in their V6s several years back. All they made were excuses, or fell back on the 3,000 mile oil change – which is not mandated in the owner’s manual. Add to that, the reputations of our local Toyota agencies are a bit less than stellar.
In reality Toyota is no different than gm. EXCEPT that they own their design flaws and handle them for their customers.
Customers look at Consumer Reports for a reliable vehicle (which ain’t GM) and buy it, which also translates into higher resale.
No surprises here at all. Who would want to keep buying junk?
Toyota’s Entune Infotainment system = Junk
GM’s entire lineup = junk
Have you been in a 3rd gen Tacoma? Have you seen how dated the Tundra is. Have you seen Toyota even come close to winning a comparison test against any of the competition? I mean the Corolla just got sh*t on by the Civic, the Rav4 is constantly out gunned by Honda, Mazda and others (outside of the efficiency of the Hybrid and Prime models) and the rest of the line up is struggling and constantly behind the others. Toyota isn’t a big seller because they are a better vehicle or much more reliable, this isn’t the 1980’s which is what most Toyota buyers have in their head as dead nuts long term reliable vehicles. The competition has caught up in terms of reliability and passed them by far in terms of an overall better vehicle.
We have a 4th gen Rav4, wife was set on it after her first one (3rd gen). The first one after we sold it had numerous issues and tons of road noise and a horrible ride while we owned it including the steering wheel clunk, failed motor mounts and other minor issues. Our new one still rides rough and is louder and less comfortable than the competition (we constantly rent compact CUV’s so I can open her eyes to others and she sees the light). Toyota isn’t the most reliable nor anywhere near the best, their sales are on perceived reputation based on vehicles from 30 years ago. Unfortunately as all vehicles have gotten better and more complicated the complaints aren’t usually unreliable drivetrains it is failed sensors and blacked out touch screens which all brands have issues with. The playing field is pretty level except with the Fiat brand.
@Commonsense: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I’ll admit that I may go a little over the top on this subject because I feel so strongly about it. Often that means I don’t correctly make a point that you just did. I’ve said it in the past and continue today, that Toyota and Honda are not bad vehicles. They just are NOT any better than average.
You nailed it on the head with your entire post. Toyota and Honda have gone down hill in a big way, but the fan boys out there still act like it’s the 80’s. Personally, I ride in a lot of Uber’s with my work and the majority of them are Toyota or Honda or Hyundai or Kia. Of those 4, the Kia seems the nicest. However, they are all cheap and the interiors on the Toyota’s and Honda’s are plain garbage. They are loud. They often ride quite harshly. There are always rattles and noises that make me wonder how these people can think those cars are quality. Some of these are less than 2 years old. On top of that, I normally talk with the divers and will often ask them about the cars. You would be shocked at how many times they will tell me about problems/issues, and the next thing they say is how good the cars are. It’s like Toyota and Honda owners think these problems are ok. To top it off, it really gets tiring having these fan boys hang out on a site like this for no other reason but to “promote” their product. Sad.
Lol How did you fit so much BS on one page?
If you don’t like the “fanboys” then go to a forum lol
“There are always rattles and noises that make me wonder how these people can think those cars are quality. ”
They probably think to themselves, “It may rattle and make noises and need a lot of repairs, but, I am SURE American cars are worse; that’s what Consumers Reports has told me for decades!”
The proof I see is in observations: just how many OLD Toyotas and Nissan sedans do you see around? Not very many. I DO see a lot of old Civic sedans from as far back as the 80s, but, that’s about it.
Meantime, I see plenty of Buicks, Chevys. Fords, Dodges, and other American makes that are well past the 25 year mark. Many of them are in remarkably good condition.
Yes, many GM cars built up to 1976 were well built and still around. GM downsizing was the start of the downhill slide for cars. The engines not reliable 8 families that owned GM always experienced engines that died between 20,000 & 30,000, that did them in with trusting GM (some switched to Honda, others to the all new Ford Taurus & Mercury Sable & never went back to GM ). We ran into problems within 2 weeks of buying our 83 Pontiac, musty smell came on strong, turned out to be a cracked heater core. Turned out GM would not stand by their warranty saying the heater core was made by a supplier that they did not stand up for (we were Pissed!!!!!). Our Pontiac was in the dealership for a week, as they had to pull the entire dashboard out to replace the heater core, plus a Huge repair bill. We waited for the all new Ford Taurus absolutely loved that car very reliable. We always put a lot miles on our cars all the Taurus we owned reliable to 200,000 miles. Then Chrysler LH cars came out with amazing interior leg room! Our first Concorde drove 385,000+ trouble free miles and our 2nd Concorde is at 215,000 trouble free miles.
Have you seen the sale numbers for Toyota’s lineup?
Bet you’re having a Homer Simpson moment right now…D’oh
Toyota tuff
You’re pathetic, you came to a GM site to troll, and your comments aren’t even funny. Why don’t you go wash that little Prius of yours, and pretend the car isn’t as you are.
You do realize this is a “GM” website that also has tons of other stuff as well. These same people run Cadillac & Ford society as well as others. If you want a place where it’s mainly only GM people so the “trolls” don’t offend you then go to a forum lol
Trashota sums it all up.
I know what will help GM’s brand loyalty!
Let’s see more cheaply made, overpriced, unreliable and underpowered vehicles and totally abandon segments like sedans!!!!
That should make GM even better!
Even on Underpowered?
Whose trucks fail miserably at hauling & Towing competitions.
Whose $100,000 Lexus LC gets destroyed by a $60,000 Cadillac Blackwing
Whose Prius takes 10 sec to get up to 60mph
Get the FK out of here with your Underpowered crap.
For the average consumer, none of that matters though. They just want a reliable vehicle that gets the job done.
They seem to be happy buying other brands.
But Toyota’s Business model is unsustainable. Delaying new technologies to keep reliability high, overtime Toyota’s become more and more outdated. Soon even the geriatric crowd will notice, and move on to something more up to date.
GM is the king of delaying new technologies and riding out platforms and existing technologies for years. Yet somehow they consistently struggle with reliability. There is nothing cutting edge about GM, and customers easily recognize that.
People buy Toyotas because they trust it will be built well and provide years of reliable service. Additionally the vehicles hold resale value better than GM vehicles. Most buyers today want stress free ownership experiences, and brand like Toyota and Honda provide that.
We get that you hate Toyota, but the reason they have more loyal customers is because they make a better product. I am currently on my 6th GM vehicle, but even I can recognize that GM no longer offers the best value in the market and do not plan on getting another GM vehicle. I have had enough, just like the other 50% of Chevy owners.
Toyota doesn’t make a better product, we have owned a few and rented numerous. Their sales are high because of perceived quality, not actual quality. This isn’t the 1980’s, the competition has caught up in quality and passed them in terms of an overall better performing vehicle. They are the Apple buyers of the car world, blindly rebuying the same brand because of some sort of substance in their drinks that makes them not look at other options. Case in point the Tacoma. Sales are through the rough and the vehicle is constantly outperformed in comparison tests and reliability is long gone. Go take a look at Tacomaworld at the issues and complaints. It is not at all more reliable than the competition. The Corolla just got b*itch slapped by the Civic as did the Camry, Tundra is way behind (though I will say probably a little more reliable than the competition because of it but that will change with the next gen).
Anecdotal arguments. I could give my stories of poor quality Silverado’s and Pontiacs I’ve owned, but to what point? The real data is what customers look at, Consumer Reports reliability ranking. GM is consistently poor and the worse part is it does not care and is doing nothing to change it.
Ah, but Patrick the GM brands do very well in the JDP surveys. We all know that JDP is much less bias towards any brand like CR is. But go ahead and keep telling yourself what makes you feel better about your choices.
BTW, Buick has ranked quite high in the JDP surveys for well over 30 years now. Cadillac has moved up as well as Chevy. Last I checked, all 4 brands rand well above average. To top that off, Buick and Chevy have been doing much better in CR even with the slant against domestic brands.
Except nobody references JDP, I would venture to say most customers don’t even know how to. Whether you believe CR has an anti-domestic slant is irrelevant, buyers use it as their number one source to determine vehicle quality/reliability. Also in my experience working at GM, no one is accountable for CR reliability rankings or the vehicle issues once they are out of warranty.
Arcee: Wrong. You are 100% wrong in everything you just said. But thanks for the Toyota commercial. Just you saying that Toyota is more advanced than GM should make even the most loyal Toyota lovers laugh.
Now go back to your own fan club.
How about going back to the original designs in a nostalgic way. Get rid of vehicles that are getting recalled,bring back Harley Earl designs such as fins real quality material . No more vehicles that look like they come out of a cereal boxes . BRING BACK TRUE MUSCLE CARS WITH ATTITUDES!!!!! I have been a true Chevrolet and G.M. Diehard Loyalist since I was born. Don’t destroy our lifeline that our grandparents parents fathers uncles and brothers instilled in us.Take care of your vehicles and they will take care of you!!!!!!! NO MORE VEHICLES THAT REQUIRE FLASH DRIVES OR USB PORTS!!!!!
Harley Earl? Seriously? Oh, dear me, yes.
Give me a nice 1958 Buick Limited 4 door hard top with a V8 and Dynaflow! Eleventy-two pounds of chrome slathered all over the sides. Don’t forget the trolling-rod radio antennas! 10 miles per gallon, and needing casters on the door handles to keep from scratching the paint as you LLLEEEAAAANNN through the turns.
As for the cereal box cars: if you want your styling back (and many of us do) then get your (alleged) representative in Washington to get the EPA under control and dial back the ridiculous CAFE standards. Maybe with that, we won’t necessarily get back tail fins, but we WILL get back the headroom of cars like the last of the Studebaker sedans, and other cars.
Purchased (not leased) Yukon or 2500HD Denali every year…lost my business after the last BS with a 2020 Yukon Denali…. GM kept saying the cabin noise/pressure that gave my wife and I headache as “normal”. Well since “normal” is crappy we switched brands.
To be honest if you look at all the numbers loyalty is far from what used to be years ago.
Yeas ago most people stayed with a brand but today loyalty as a whole for all makes is far from what it once was.
With high cost most people today shop price.
Hyundai has the formula. Not great cars but not horrible and under cut Honda and Toyota pricing.
Yeah but Mary has gotten us higher ATP’s and we should be thankful we are paying for lower quality and less content than what we did a decade ago.
Another sign of the slow collapse of gm. There was a time when their buyers were the most loyal and their resale values were the best in the industry. Today’s gm performs poorly in most all metrics but Mark and Mary still don’t realize the Titanic is sinking.
Agreed!! It’s like Mary and Mark are focused on transforming GM from a manufacturer to a technology company (Cruze, Untium, Bright Drop, GM Military).
Isn’t that special? They have no idea of these ventures will fare, if automakers aside from Honda will have any interest in buying technology for greater scale.
I’d assume that Mary and Mark know each US GM brand will continue to slide without radical intervention. That they’ve watched 100 PowerPoint presentations all saying that their only strength is in trucks/large SUVs plus Hummer. That the only hope is Ultiun Cruise models because conventional wisdom is that brand won’t matter in the autonomous era.
GM should have merged with PSA to get a real leader like Carlos Taveres
They also at least seem to be wanting to turn GM from an American manufacturer of vehicles to one that of importer of vehicles.
Once they kill off the Malibu, Chevy will be an import brand except for the trucks they make here, the Equinox, and the Traverse.
I am willing to wager that when the next generation of the Enclave / Traverse is due, they will either kill the models entirely, or find a way to put those names on imports.
Cadillac – at least from my perspective – seems to be dying a slow death. The name will probably be bought by someone else, but even there, I am not so sure. The brand equity is about gone. They are trying to be German when they should be trying to be Cadillac.
Ci2eye
GM’s Trucks, Large SUVs, Envisions, Blazers, Trailblazers & Corvettes are in high demand. GM would struggle to keep up with demand even if their was no chip shortage.
And the hits just keep coming:
Hummer, BrightDrop 600
Obviously chevys loyalty isn’t high bc GMC exists. duh
So why is GMC loyalty even worse?
Because GMC isn’t full line. When you want something that’s not a SUV/Truck, like a sports car, you have to go buy Chevrolet or Cadillac.
Truck loyalty is strong. Car loyalty is not so strong.
Only in USA/Canada. The rest of the world prefers cars.
With everything being a CUV/SUV, I’m not sure that’s really true anymore.
Sure, Chevrolet has a Corvette and they still have the Camaro for now, but sales of those are quite low.
Cadillac and Buick sales overall are pretty terrible as well.
I’d be willing to bet people leaving Chevrolet are mostly leaving for other manufacturers entirely.
For those of you who don’t understand, this has been my family’s purchases
2002 Tahoe, 2008 Yukon XL Denali, 2013 Suburban HD
2018 Terrain Denali for a 2020 Blazer RS
2008 Acadia Denali, 2014 Enclave, 2020 Acadia Denali (downsized)
So this is exactly what this article shows.
People know GM and stay GM.
You don’t portray everyone’s thoughts and concerns, preferences, or priorities when considering a new vehicle purchase.
And we countered you with 04 GTP to 2012 Terrain for an 17 Acadia Denali for a 2021 Acadia Denali.
Also a 97 Sonoma for a 08 HHR SS for a 17 Canyon Denali.
Means little in big picture.
But Kia and Hyundai both are planning the price game and has captured sales from nearly every mfg out there.
With higher pricing people are looking to get the most for their money on features and vehicles.
GM is number one is loyalty to a manufacturer.
Tesla and Subaru were the leaders in brand loyalty in a recent Experian Automotive analysis of U.S. auto registrations, followed by Toyota, Honda, and Ford. In terms of manufacturers that produce several brands, General Motors had the highest loyalty, Experian said.
Experian reported General Motors was the loyalty leader for automakers with several brands, with a manufacturer loyalty rate of 68.4% for owners who disposed of a vehicle but stayed within the family of brands for their next new vehicle. GM new-vehicle brands in the U.S. market are Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. Manufacturer loyalty for Toyota Motor Sales USA, which has Toyota and Lexus, was 65.8%
Well that’s not good. Maybe as much as I hate to speak these words, it’s time for GM to dump GMC and Buick and just be a company with two brands? Chevrolet as the sales leader with a ton of models like Ford and Toyota have and then Cadillac with the higher end lux models with less offered but have a truly outstanding ownership process.
It’s no secret that brand loyalty today is nothing like it was many years ago. This is totally just my opinion, but I think there are so many brands and models to choose from now unlike when you really only had GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan (Datsun) as the mainstream players and MB and BMW as the more known luxury brands. Plus, with the internet out there now, information is too easy to get and people can easily switch from one brand to another.
People who buy a GMC are all smart enough to know that a GMC, Buick, Chevrolet, and Cadillac are all GM products and result in a very similar ownership experience, particularly since they are often under the same roof.
” . . . dump GMC and Buick . . . “?
Say it ain’t so, Dan!
Anybody can cut things; it takes someone with true managerial skills and vision to work with what they have and get the best results from it.
GM is already the laughing stock of many, and cutting more brands (after Saturn, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac) would make them seem even more inept!
Christopher: Although I will defend GM where appropriate, i will also call them out on the things they do badly. Unlike many on here, I don’t feel GM interiors are as bad as they make them out to be. And if you compare them to Toyota and Honda interiors, GM wins hands down. And when people bring up Mazda interiors, I’d love to have these same people see these interiors after only 2 or 3 years. Just because they look good at first doesn’t mean they hold up well over time. Again, GM wins.
But more back to what I said above and your comment. I am a true believer in JD Power and the high quality results they return. I’ve used them in the past to defend GM and I will accept the (poor) results for GM in this survey. This is truly sad and the only possible glitch in these results would be in the people going from one GM brand to another and it’s not showing in this survey results. But the bottom line is that Buick and GMC, although they may be profitable now, are basically just niche market vehicles any more. There is absolutely nothing that GMC has or does that Chevrolet couldn’t take up! The fact that GM made Buick an all SUV lineup is just nuts. Especially when most Buick dealers are paired with GMC as well. So now you have two brands under one roof with ZERO sedans and they are competing for the same sales. Outside the Sierra or Canyon, you can basically buy any Buick that will match up well with the GMC. So my opinion is that maybe it’s time Buick and GMC bit the dust and GM could focus on making Chevrolet and Cadillac the powerhouses in their respective categories. And yes, I really like Buick a lot. But results like this speak volumes. For one, it just shows us that the sheep comments I make are totally 100% true with Toyota. Doesn’t matter what junk they put out, the sheep will just keep buying them. Secondly, it doesn’t matter how well Buick does in all the other survey’s or what fantastic vehicles they offer. People are just not buying them in large enough numbers to keep them around. When they do buy the Buick, not many go back for another.
I have a 21 year old 4Runner:
ALL windows and door locks work.
Bought 80K mile tires at 263k miles thinking it was my last set. Just replaced them.
No cracked dash (like my mom’s 2013 Escalade).
No major work done, EVER! Just oil changes. Drove to FL twice (from TN) one summer with over 280k miles and NEVER worried!
Wife has ’14 Camary. Torque converter issues fixed under warranty with VERY LITTLE HASSLE.
Say what you will, but I’ll go back to Toyota. I LOVE gm, but they love money more than they love their customers. Their loyalty is to the shareholders. I work hard for my money. I’ll come back when they work just as hard building a quality product. And just in case you’re wondering, I have 334k on the odometer and run up and down the interstate ALL DAY at 80+ mph WITHOUT FAIL!
Oh, and daughter complains that the AC is too cold. Again NEVER serviced after 21 YEARS!
For those who hate on Toyota, please share a similar experience of your GM vehicle. If not, shut the hell up!
Will: How about you take your Toyota loving behind to a Toyota fan boy site. You can all sit there and stroke each other. Have fun.
Oh, and anyone can find stories like yours about any brand. If you think your high miles story is unique, you are a fool.
So, you giving me one about your gm branded product shouldn’t be too hard. Heck, use a friend’s story. Still waiting…
Point is, I am a gm FANBOY who is sorely disappointed. Family car history:
78 Monte Carlo
84 Camaro
89 GMC Jimmy
Convinced my Mom to purchase the Escalade she now drives.
Loyalty-Loyal (adjective) to a fault means extreme level of loyalty to a person which is likely to make you blind to the shortcomings of that person. Loyal to a fault may cause harm than good as the object of this type of loyalty wouldn’t realise his/her short comings.
When we dont hold gm or ANY company accountable, we enable them. So as much as you say you love gm, your are doing them no favors with blindly following along…
Oh, Will. I don’t plan to play into your little game of war. I could give you 100 stories about GM or Jeep or Dodge vehicles going 300,000 or more miles. Yet, it would make zero difference to you or steve or Evan or any of the fan boys for the Japanese brands. Why? I will quote you from above, as you gave the best answer ever.
“Loyalty-Loyal (adjective) to a fault means extreme level of loyalty to a person which is likely to make you blind to the shortcomings of that person. Loyal to a fault may cause harm than good as the object of this type of loyalty wouldn’t realise his/her short comings.
When we dont hold gm or ANY company accountable, we enable them. So as much as you say you love gm, your are doing them no favors with blindly following along…”
In other words Will, you are loyal to a fault to Toyota.
Favorite car ALL TIME: Corvette!
Why did I convince my parents to purchase an ESCALADE?
Why have we (family) only owned GM until recently?
While I’m teaching you new words, look up SUBJECTIVE vs. OBJECTIVE…
Lol dam I thought it was just the other guy but you sound like a cuck lol
We have a 2002 Cadillac DHS and the only service the car has had is oil changes and tires. It will cruise all day at 80+ in the mountains and pull 30+ MPG with it loaded and the A/C freezing both front and back seat passengers out. Plus EVERYONE can control the temp in their parts of the car…front and back. Smooth riding, responsive, no dents, dings or RUST and the paint shines like new. We live in a salt belt in the midwest and our roads are crap with potholes and pavement falling apart. The interior is perfect, not cracked dash, worn out leather or mashed up carpets. It is not a garage queen as it sits outside so our Corvette can be in the garage. People still compliment the car and its looks and its pushing 300K on the odometer.
Our 2001 Corvette convertible gets driven, except in the winter. It still has the original GM fabric convertible top and again, no repairs except for oil changes and it is on the third set of tires.
I’ve seen 2 and 3 year old Toyota and Lexus models that are rusted out to the max and are chugging along on the road spewing fumes out the exhaust.
The moral to this is how you take care of your cars, trucks, SUV or that god awful Prius that can’t get out of its own way on the road.
Yes, GM is loosing customers since they are trying to fit us all in a mold of CUV/SUV/Pickups or compact cars. Some of us still want our land yacht and will pay for it in fuel mileage. By the way, we also have a 2020 Cadillac CT6 Premium Luxury. Yesterday, on the highway I was getting 40-ish MPG into the wind at 75 MPH with Super Cruise doing my driving for me. Suck that Camry and Prius.
Everytime I see a CTS or CT6 my heart breaks!
The CTS is BEAUTIFUL and should have been given the attention it deserves. My wife saw an ATS Coupe and drooled…
I’ve driven SUVs since before they were ‘the thing.’
Hoping for great sedans in the future!
Great post!
Thanks, Will!
This is our second CT6 with the first one a 2017 Premium in Phantom Gray. This 2020 is Shadow Metallic and people rave about the color and are constantly asking what make the car is since there is no Cadillac script, just logos, on it. Cadillac/GM made a mistake cancelling the car in the U.S. and giving it to China with a paltry turbo 4 cylinder. It’s a Mary and Mark f$ck up. Marketing could have saved that car.
We had a 2013 XTS Platinum Premium and loved it but when the CT6 came out we decided to “upgrade”. Our dealer sat it on the showroom floor even with 75K miles on it. Our 2017 CT6 was sold the day we placed our order for our 2020. The guy waited for almost 6 months to get it. Dealer did no clean up or detailing to it the day we took delivery of the 2020. The guy that bought the 2017 drove it off after we talked for a bit about the car. This proves to me that people still want a big, full-sized luxury sedan. The guy that bought the 2017 was in his mid 20’s and he paid a premium price for the car.
Cadillac is going to give us a $200K “hand built luxury” car in the near future, but I’ll hang onto my 2020 for a while.
@Quick Silver 1: Haha. Love it. Thanks for not only letting us know that, but for also making my day with a smile! I love your last line: “Suck that Camry and Prius”.
The problem is that you, myself and many others on here could give Will these stories, and yet Will would never change his tune. He would still be look at me and my old Toyota truck. Look at how perfect it is. GM is junk because I say so.
On another note, I’ve also seen those big Caddy’s and Buick’s hitting 30+ MPG on the highways in total comfort and quiet. My 2020 Cadillac CT4 Luxury 2.0 Turbo will get really great MPG on the highway. Just a few weeks ago we went to visit some friends about 90 miles away. Yes, it was all freeway driving (but in Los Angeles ares, that’s not always good). I filled up and went up to the high desert with traffic at a stop in some areas and with temps of 113 outside. Drove back later in the evening with little traffic and temps still over 100. When I pulled back into my driveway, my average MPG for that trip hit 53!! I used exactly 1/4 tank of gas, drove with traffic at 70+ mph with outside temps well over 100 for the entire trip. All in the very quiet cabin and with outstanding comfort.
Suck that Camry and Prius!!!
My 2016 Sierra CC 4×4 6.2 averaged 20.8 mpg over 201k miles. My record best over 25 miles was 36.8 mpg – in the Keys, driving 50-55 mph steady with no stops and (obviously) no elevation changes; and 24.8 mpg over 400 miles in SC. It was awesome – right up until the point when it dropped a cylinder after barely 4 years of impeccable maintenance and mild highway driving.
Was that pencil and paper figures, or, the trip computer?
All of those numbers were from the trip computer. I’ve randomly checked its accuracy with pencil and paper and found it to be substantially correct – within 1.5 mpg EITHER WAY, depending on how gas pumps on the front and back ends of the sample work.
Ok, 1991 Astro van. Towed a boat at its weight limit (over loaded really once gear for long trips and a family of 4 was in it) all around the great lakes. Never had a major issue, just fluid changes and 1 alternator. Sold it with around 280k on it running great. It was a simpler vehicle back then and much easier to work on. Today even checking or changing transmission fluid is a difficult pain. Older Toyota’s were great, but they aren’t anymore. We have had two and looking elsewhere for the next. This isn’t the 80”s/90’s, Toyota doesn’t make the same vehicle, the competition has caught them in reliability and passed them in overall vehicle performance. Sales now are from people thinking it is the same vehicle they built 30 years ago but a quick check on any of the Toyota forums will tell you otherwise. The Tacoma is the worst of them but the others are really lacking. Their other largest sellers (Corolla, Camry, Tacoma and Rav4) are horribly outclassed by the competition and kicked around in comparison tests while having the same actual reliability as the competition. It is just the truth, sales aren’t from building a better or more reliable vehicle…
We bought a sienna when we started our family. It was either a 2003 or 2004. We put about 200,000 miles on it. It was very reliable but not perfect. We had to replace the AC compressor around 180,000 miles. When we bought the van new the salesperson even mentioned that the only thing to go wrong on the Sienna’s was the AC compressor. He was right.
That’s the kind of reliability I have traditionally enjoyed with my GM trucks – until now. My last two (before current) 256k and 180k miles in 7 and 5 years, respectively – and they had the original brakes on them when I sold them. One $300 and one $30 repair between the two of them. With my job, I may have to drive 1,500 miles round-trip with 30 minutes notice. I can’t continue to deal with what the current Sierra and Suburban have put me through.
even in this world of easy switching, there are winners and losers and gm is losing.
your sheeple argument holds no water.
Actually little s steve, it holds more water after seeing the results from the survey. If you had a clue, you would understand that. But instead, you come onto a GM site and push your thoughts and the junk from the Japanese on here. Why? This is what I don’t get about the defenders of the Japanese brands. Why they insist on going to a competitors site and saying what they do. Personally, I wouldn’t give the time of day to go onto a Toyota fan site and spew about how GM is the better company. I’m certain that you won’t find much of that on some Toyota site.
My take is that it’s like the men out there who go buy an expensive sports car to impress the women (or men) because they lack on so many other levels. The Toyota fans are so insecure about their beliefs and product that they feel the need to go to non-Toyota sites to brag up the junk they think is so good.
“The Toyota fans are so insecure about their beliefs”
Give me a break. You sound pathetic.
I would argue that they just buy what everyone says you should, because they aren’t enthusiasts. My friend will only buy Japanese, and swears by Honda. His only belief on the matter is that it’s a better quality product. He won’t even consider the Korean brands because he has long since accepted what everyone has been saying for decades about Japanese quality.
Yes Nate: If the Toyota (and Honda) fans were more secure in their “beliefs” that the Toyota (Honda) product was so good, why the need to troll a site like GMA? What I’ve also found is that they tend to hold a certain amount of guilt (or shame) around buying those products, thus feeling the need to justify their purchases by attempting to get more people to do the same. No different than a kid knowingly doing something wrong while trying to get other kids to do the same to lessen the wrong if you will.
Go ahead if you wish to purchase from those brands. I never will nor will any Japanese brand vehicle be welcome in my driveway. You see, I’m strong in my beliefs and don’t have a problem calling out those who are weak (steve and Evan). A few weeks ago I had an electrician show up at my home to give me an estimate to install the home charger for my Volvo S60. Guess what he was driving? A Tundra. Guess who didn’t get my business? Him.
Yeah I don’t get trolling sites for brands you don’t even like.
That’s ridiculous.
As for the Tundra, I’d have probably asked him about it. Just out of curiosity.
I did bring it up to him. Although he made it clear that his “next” truck will be the F150 all electric, the fact remains that he drove up to my home in a Toyota. Game over. I refuse to give money to those who spend it with Toyota.
Where was his Tundra built you dim wit and who built it? That’s right Americans, Americans with families , houses, 401k etc..Dumb A$$
Toyota Tuff: Then go do what you wish with your money. I look at where the money goes and those profits all go back to Japan. I will never give my money to Japan nor will I spend my money with anyone who makes a decision to buy those products. The reason you come at me with your lame old arguments is because you have nothing else.
You just give your money to China lol. It’s hilarious you are writing these comments from your Chinese made phone 🙂
I have 334K reasons why this is total BS!
NO sagging headliner.
ALL windows, locks, and mirrors work.
NO major work done, EVER!
Daughter complains the AC is too cold on a 90 degree day.
FINALLY seeing wear in my leather.
I would LOVE to buy gm. I’ll come back when they work as hard for my money as I work for my money…
All this in a 21 year old 4Runner! Get a grip! Your argument is crap!
Mom has a 2014 Escalade with a CRACKED dash, worn dash front, and squeaking console. How come I don’t see this wear and tear in my 21 year old, don’t want to sell (got offers while driving on vacation) 4Runner?
My guess, you like me, want gm to be great. But they’re just average at best. Instead of ignoring the facts, I’ll just spend my money elsewhere when I FINALLY feel like change.
Please share your AMAZING gm story. Waiting…
Will: Take your passion for the junk from Toyota to a Toyota site.
Here’s what I just don’t get. Why to Toyota fan boys feel the need to come to a GM site and troll? Get a life. Why don’t you, steve (small s), Toyota Tuff and Evan go form your own little group where you can stroke yourselves to your Toyota fan boy stories?
Every mom loves their ugly kids be it Toyota or GM. They both have good and bad and the space between is not great.
Dan: still waiting…
Your arguments are EMOTIONAL therefore lacking any depth. More feelings over facts.
Fact is I LOVE gm, not trolling at all. But when your emotions get you to spewing falsehoods with little to no facts, you appear to be a child who just found out people hate your favorite toy. I’m just shedding light on the subject. Again, if these type of stories are ‘everywhere’ as you say, share yours…
I simply shared my experience, and you surely dont believe that a car of 21 YEARS with over 334K miles is junk. That’s just immature, emotional loyalty to gm talking there.
Stop pretending gm is a ‘pure’ American company. Like I said, I will come back when they are working for my dollar as I work for my dollar…
Carry the hell on…
Will: See the other’s comments who gave you stories. I have mine too, but you are like the right wing nut job who still pretends Trump won. He didn’t. No matter what I say or what story I give, you will still be a Toyota fan. So me giving you stories would fall on deaf ears with no change in the outcome. Just like my example of the right wing nuts.
Will: You are just making this all too easy.
My ex-wife has a 2003 Camry she got when it was two years old with about 30K. She had the car when we got married. Here’s just a short list of the things that car cost us:
Alternator x 2
Battery x 2
Passenger side airbag cover pulling apart from the dash. Never bothered to fix due to cost.
Headliner falling down. Yup, there you go. From what I know, it’s completely gone now as I refused to spend money on it.
And my favorite, the good old 2.4L engine sludge problems. Numerous issues, but the biggest issue was the cloud of off-white smoke from the exhaust every now and then. All that with the normal maintenance done by the dealer.
Lastly, the erratic behavior from the transmission. Yup, it wouldn’t do it all the time, but several times per month the car would act up. Start it, put in gear, step on gas with no results and then a clank and the car would lurch forward or backwards. I learned to always keep one foot on the brake and the other on the gas just in case.
lol what people actually have shame about buying a car from another country? In this day in time is there even such a thing as a real American made vehicle? I’d bet not every single “American” car has Chinese components in it lol
If you are so secure about your belief in GM, why do you feel hurt about other opinions? Or, do you just want to be in an echo chamber? Or, being less than polite, a test version of a circ1e j3rk?
i just look at the numbers. you try to play dr. phil to argue argue otherwise.
your weak arguments are laughable.
How many people did the survey? All owners everywhere or is it just a thousand or two?
Yes Dan, I agree with you GMC/Buick basically offering many models that are copied with Cadillac. Just market Chevrolet for the working people, white color workers and Cadillac towards the CEOs. Between the fully loaded Suburban/Tahoe, GMC Yukon/XL & Escalade are all fighting each other for very rich families. Build the Tahoe/Suburbans for the family people and the Escalades for CEO’s. Most of Buick offerings are in China already, just ship GMC to China as well.
This is brand loyalty, but does it account for someone going from Chevy to GMC, or from GMC to chevy, to cadillac, etc? What if they are jumping around within the GM family?
That might be happening a little but overall I think people are ditching GM entirely. From the people I know who bought new GM products they aren’t satisfied at all especially since with one of my friends the engine took a crap at 4,000 miles on his 2021 Tahoe. GM is simply relying on nostalgia and loyalty at this point and they’re not even on thin ice anymore. They’re swimming.
Its time for GM missmanagment to implement some bold cost cutting measures to insure customer retention and satisfaction in the fast moving competitive automotive space. Bold action to cut models, homogenize design and de content product is the type of forward thinking hard decisions that must be made to insure future viability going forward.
Cadriver,
Is your post a joke?
Do you REALLY think the way for GM to go is to cut models, homogenize design, and de-content product?
To me, each of those would be the WRONG move!
Christopher, Yes! Sadly I have given up on GM management ever being able to get it together. Cuts, reductions, and short sighted cheapness is all the seem to be about.
I’ll be contributing to this trend when I replace my current rides – ’15 Suburban and ’16 Sierra. I’ve spent more on repairs on the Sierra than all repairs combined for all of the vehicles I’ve owned (including boats!) over the last 36 years. Fortunately (?) the most expensive repairs (thus far) on the Suburban were covered.
Going to try something non-GM for the first time in my life…I can’t imagine it could be worse than my current experience.
Look at a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru.
If you have extra money to spend then look at the Mercedes GLE 450 with the straight six turbo.
And there is our Japanese fan boy Evan selling out. Are you Japanese and work for Toyota or do you just not care about your country? You, Evan, are a total sell out.
PhD PE: Sorry to hear about your problems. As I’m sure you know, any brand can have issues and they all do. You speak about the Suburban, but don’t say anything about the Sierra. Is the Sierra bad too or just the other one?
Allow me to be the true American (unlike Evan) and suggest giving a Ford or Ram product a try? Or maybe you would be a great candidate for the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer? Either way, there are a lot of great American products out there to choose from. I hope you consider that.
sell out??? that is funny considering you are the gm sycophant who works slinging japanese and chinese vehicles.
I’m sorry little steve. Did I strike a bad note with you? Or are you and Evan one in the same?
BTW, you do understand the correct way to use capital letters where appropriate, don’t you?
i hope you find this as entertaining as i do DB.
The Sierra is far worse than the Suburban…
Suburban: Fuel pump, many trim pieces, window regulator, a/c compressor and transmission replacement under warranty. A/c coil, rotors, door lock switch on my dime.
Sierra (ALL on my dime) : Master cylinder, torque converter, rotors, transmission (8L90) replacement (debris damage from torque converter damage from wrong fluid from factory – after 3 flushes), a/c coil, ignition coils, 6.2 engine replacement (lifter positioning tray failed, roller lifter rotated, scrubbed #3 intake lobe – low compression in #3) – $6,900 to replace cam & lifter or $10,100 for factory new engine (I chose to not spend $7k to “fix” a 170k mile engine that had made metal), radiator failed at plastic to aluminum joint – not repairable, replaced. $19k out of pocket all total (NOT including maintenance items like tires, oil, filters, batteries, shocks, etc.).
Both meticulously maintained. The Sierra in particular is exclusively highway driven (20.8 mpg average over 201k miles on a CC 4×4 w/ 6.2; 126k miles on the Michelins and still not to the wear bars). The Michelins outlasted the transmission, and might have outlasted the engine had I run them down to the 2/32 tread wear bars.
Like I said, worse than my first 14 vehicles combined. With this kind of reliability, they can offer any rebate they want to move the trucks – they get it back many times over in replacement parts.
I’m going to take my chances on something else next time. I won’t be “got” a second time.
PhD PE: Wow. That stinks for sure. Sounds like you certainly got a couple bad apples. It can and does happen. Thankfully not often.
I have a lot of family members who switched from GM to Dodge (Ram). They all seem to like them and have great luck with them from what I know. Not many Ford’s ever in my family or friends, but I do feel the F series trucks are very good. I know if I were looking to go back into a large SUV, I’d be putting my money on the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Good luck on the next vehicles no matter what they may be.
I’m going to explore Ford, Ram, and (never thought I’d say this) Toyota when it’s time. Don’t give me any crap about the “Jap” truck – it’s actually made in America, unlike my last two GMC Sierra’s…that were made in Mexico.
Do what you want. I’ve been saying this for years and will never stop. I don’t care where the Toyota’s are assembled. It’s where the profits go. And if you think that Toyota’s don’t have issues, then you would be mistaken. But all that doesn’t matter because if you actually look and and drive the Ram and the Tundra, you won’t buy the Tundra. Period.
Thank you for your permission to do what I want. (Net) profits go to shareholders. Where do GM’s and Toyota’s shareholders live? Personally, I know many more people who own Toyota stock than GM stock. In fact, after the bailout, folks I knew swore off of investing in GM. (Gross) profits go into R&D, or, at GM, development of electric cars to replace what we, generally, want.
There’s no doubt in my mind that I wouldn’t buy the current generation Toyota truck – it’s antiquated by comparison to anything else on the market. GM is on their 4th iteration since it was introduced. But they’re (finally) introducing an all-new truck this year, and I’ll wager it will be more than competitive with the Big-Three’s offerings.
GM has two major problems, from my perspective: They have no “car guys” in their leadership, and their leadership is using the government formula to run (ruin) the business. RE “car guys” – no one in leadership has passion for what they are doing, no one loves their work, no one is listening to the customers because they don’t care what the customers want – they want the customers to want what they’re making/they don’t want to produce what the customers want. RE “government formula” – it works when you have zero competition, you’ll pay any price, jump through any hoop to get something that you can’t from anyone else, no matter how bad the product or service. But GM has competition, good competition in many cases, and people are tired of accepting what GM has to offer when, down the street, they can get what they want. Sometimes that’s a 707hp coupe, sometimes it’s a reliable truck, soon it will be a non-electric vehicle.
If I were running GM I would hire some people away from Chick-Fil-A to infuse customer service traits in my organization, and some people from Apple to challenge the innovation of any car guys left in the building.
Last soap box moment for today: Based on how much Americans drive, the electric generation capacity (and transmission and distribution capacity) of the US will have to be more than doubled to charge a fully electric American fleet. No one is preparing for that reality.
With Buick’s being designed/engineered & built in China. Will China allow the UAW into the Buick plants in China yet? To still buy a Buick made by the U.A.W. The choice is Enclave.
What part of RAM, other than the name is American? Please do tell how supporting RAM also supports America.🤔
Lol are you a sellout to then? You wrote that comment from your Chinese made phone lol
The Mercedes will have him appreciating his GM if he has to actually, you know, pay for service and repairs. One does not BUY a Mercedes. One LEASES them.
Guess the Buick sedan owners are shopping else where. Gotta hand it to Subaru. Doing a great job with return customers.
Lol, I knew the beehives nest of trolling will hit. One funny one is “oh GM will collapse ” news is GM did collapse and went BK giving “everyone ” what they wanted, they not repeating that mistake just to make flyover tirekickers happy. The chip shortage is a drain on them also, one concession is they need to boost more mainstream vehicle portfolio otherwise they making the money they need.
I have a 2017 Cruze hatchback, and my car before that was a 2011 regal turbo. I don’t know what I will get in a couple years, GM has no cars anymore, and I can’t afford a Cadillac.
They still have the Malibu, for now.
Scott, We have 3 Cadillac sedans. Once the GM brain trust cancels the CT4 and 5 we will be heading over to the Germans for replacements so we will become part of the statistics. I will not buy a Chevy in a fancy suit XT4-5-6 so GM missmanagment will have run us off too…..
Cadriver: I’m not being smart about this. Just giving a reality check on it.
Not sure when you plan to move to another new vehicle, but if/when GM drops the CT4/CT5, you may be in for a surprise to find out the Germans may not have any cars either. I don’t agree with it, but the trends are moving away from the sedans and into the SUV’s as we all know. My guess would be the next replacements for the sedans won’t be another standard sedan as we know them today, but more of a jacked up high sitting sedan-type. Think of a watered down SUV with more of a hatch/slanted rear. BMW has one out already (not sure what it’s called).
That could be be but so far the Germans and the Asian brands show no predisposition to letting any of their car models go. My view is the only thing that will stop them from building MB C,E,S and BMW 3,4,5,6,7 ect is the end of the world. These makers have invested decades into building a spot in the marketplace for them and aSTRONG image of substance and forever permanence. I just cant see them tossing it away.
They are totally ugly, Honda tried a sedan version of a SUV and killed off in just a few years of production. As far as trucks that is all North America, many companies have tried to sell pickups in their countries and all but a few quit building them as cars won out in each country.
I would love a ct4. I agree Cadillac SUVs arent competitive to me. My wife has had an encore, equinox, terrain , and enclave, and we hope to get the new envision in January. To me, Buick makes better looking SUVs then Cadillac. When I’m done paying off my Cruze, I’m going to keep it, and get a sky or solstice as a second car. But I don’t know what I will do after the Cruze is done, I don’t want a suv.
GM should just drop Buick and GMC. I get all the history and all this bs but in the end they’re very similar vehicles and in some cases the exact same vehicle like the Suburban and the non-Denali trim Yukons. It costs a lot of money to run a separate brand and clearly the system of the luxury brand and the affordable brand is working (Ex: Lexus, Toyota and Ford, Lincoln). I say just ship Buick off to China since that’s the only place they’re really getting sales and just simply end GMC at this point. People don’t want to pay $3,000 more just to have the same exact vehicle but with a bit more chrome.
Drop Buick in the US? Sure.
Drop GMC? No way. It prints money. A lot of people buy them, and it doesn’t cost much to rebadge a Chevrolet truck.
Nate: This is what I don’t think you are understanding in this. Having GMC does hurt Chevrolet and it does cost them. Slightly different trims, styling, features. This all costs money. Then marketing that brand. This costs money. And finally, lost sales to Chevy that go to GMC when Chevy could easily cover those models and/or trims. Heck, it wouldn’t take much of anything to have a Chevy Denali trim. Same thing and printing money still.
Fair enough, but I hear people say “Denali” all the time, like it’s a brand unto itself. I wonder if they even know what model vehicle they have, the way they just repeat “Denali” over and over.
They must be doing something right.
Nate: You hit the nail on the head! It doesn’t matter if they have a GMC Yukon Denali or Sierra Denali. No, what matters is that they have a “Denali”. Period!
Chevrolet could easily offer the Denali package on the Equinox, Traverse, Silverado, Tahoe and Suburban like a separate brand that it really is now. Let’s be honest. Do many people actually buy GMC’s just because it’s a GMC? Most likely not. They buy a Denali. In fact, I’d be quite interested to know how many of the total GMC’s sold are the Denali trim.
Historically (2010-2018) SLT made up 40% of GMC sales, while Denali made up 30%. Based on the way the current generation was introduced, I suspect Denali has a bigger take now, with SLT giving up a lot to AT4 and Elevation trims.
Personally, I’ve always been a fan of the SLT – you can get every feature that comes on a Denali, except that big, chrome “look at me!” grill and 22’s.
GMC may take Chevy sales but they get a much higher transaction price. It all goes to the same pocket.
The money is not going to Ford.
You are correct as GMC is and has been more profitable than Cadillac.
If not for GMC we would not be buying a Chevy. The Blazer is too small and Traverse too large.
Not a big fan of the Colorado out side the ZR.
All marketing, customers take the bate and hook on GMC they come off the the same assembly lines. A former co-worker of my wife’s said, husband and her were looking to buy a new Chevrolet, someone near by said so then are you looking GMC too? The lady goes hell no, GMC is junk, she would only consider Chevrolet as they are much better. People around burst out laughing telling her the Chevrolet Colorado & GMC Canyon are built on the same assembly line lol.
“The lady goes hell no, GMC is junk, she would only consider Chevrolet as they are much better.”
Reminds me of this awful woman I worked with back in the 90s. She had a Mazda Navajo. Paid more for it than a Ford Explorer, but she was adamant the Mazda was better. Why? Because Mazda was Japanese, so had to be better.
Variation on that theme: those who bought Isuzu Rodeos with the Honda Passport badging, because Honda is so great and all
John: I really like Buick a lot. They are great vehicles and my history goes way back with them. However, I couldn’t agree more with you. It would hurt me to see Buick go away (GMC not at all). But IMO, GM seems to be cutting both Chevy and Cadillac in order to allow Buick and GMC to exist.
Just pull the band aide off quickly.
Yeah I have been on Honda sites or and talk about how bad their transmissions were it just seems funny how people don’t hear about that and that I’ve been told that I was just being mean and get off the site I also don’t like the front ends on Toyota’s I think that they’re ugly and they’re not very roomy inside very small and I love my enclave with 225,000 mi and no problems I also love my GMC Acadia with 375,000 miles still going I’ve also talked about how ugly that the Hyundai front end looks and how ugly the Toyota front ends look and yeah people don’t agree with me when I see the Toyota 4Runner that is so outdated with its rear-wheel drive and it’s small wheelbase on a large truck seems ridiculously ugly from the back like it’s ready to roll over without its widens wheelbase like putting a Volkswagen base on and a big truck looks ridiculous to me and cannot handle well
Gino: I sold Honda’s for 12 very long years. Boy, did I see many of the issues they have and yet people seldom read or hear about them. One thing I have often said is that the Japanese companies are masters at marketing. Toyota could stick wheels on a turd and put their stupid emblem on it and sell it. The sheep would buy it because Toyota said it was good. One of the most interesting things I’ve ever learned was from a buddy of mine who has been at a Toyota store for over 30 years now. He told me how Toyota will have a major issue and won’t want to have a recall or cause problems for the owners. Instead, they will instruct the dealerships to send out a free oil change and car wash to the owners of affected cars. They get them in, do the oil change, fix the problem without the customer ever knowing what they did. The customer only walks out the door happy because they think Toyota gave them another free oil change. Now that’s a slimy company. Like the old saying in Japan goes: “If it stinks, put a lid on it”.
Yes the BUICK Enclave is the only BUICK left for us the rest of the line-up is from China.
Interesting how 90% of these comments or about GM going down the tubes. GM had a $3.3 billion profit last quarter, up over previous years. GM light duty trucks consistently outsell the competition. The F150 is the most popular vehicle in America (usually) because GM sells the identical truck under two nameplates!
In today’s world an automaker can try to win on pure volume or efficiency and max return on investment.
It is different for each as it depends on what markets and how many global markets they are in. The Asian makers hold the advantage of owning the global east out side of China and the rest have to make do with smaller declining markets globally out side China.
Pure volume or pure profits matter depending on approach.
In Business those who sell the most are not always the winner. GM proved that in the past.
If your products only change from the previous model is to remove options and add some plastic trim why would anyone buy it again. I have never bought the same model twice from Gm because they don’t improve the product to where it is worth while then when they do…. its half ass. GM rarely gives you both a great interior/exterior design and a powertrain to match.
Don’t forget removing engine options. My brother owned an Equinox and was nuts about it. Great car for his needs. He considered a new one, but with the lack of any power, he bought something else.
Many here worry about the other manufacturers. Many here have overlooked the fact that Ford is higher than GMC and Chevy. Many here are bad mouthing other individuals.
I believe the accountability lies solely on GM to look deeply into its manufacturing and execution of its products. There is no doubt it needs management changes. There is no doubt that it is struggling. How many times can fan boys say it’s the best and blindly keep buying the products when the products have been slowly and steadily sliding down the charts. Every company struggles with Government mandated requirements as well as producing a desirable vehicle. Some do it better than others, Toyota being a good example. The idea of brand loyalty is being challenged to a higher degree like no other time in history. If Kia can work thru more of their problems then their conquest of car sales will continue. Toyota didn’t buy their reputation. We bought Toyotas because they proved to be a good value for our dollars and that built the reputation. If GM is going to turn the company fortunes around they need to keep the basics sound and not try to be everything for everyone.
And with so many enthusiast websites to go to it is easy to leave this one. I respectfully retire from this one. Good luck GM. You have a faithful flock. Stop pissing on them. Thanks
^^^^^ This!!
GM is linking up with Honda, maybe they can show them how to produce a reliable vehicle.
Lots of challenging work ahead for gm.
The Asians have the key.
RAM also has the key. RAM is an amazing story. Cummins saved them.
Dodge truck was an 80K unit per year producer before the Cummins engine. Cummins helped save Chrysler.
Cummins is an amazing story in itself.
Amazing that the rest of Chrysler-FCA-Stellantis products are at the bottom of the heap in brand loyalty.
So Dan bearing is a racist lol, good to know on here
Neck (sorry, I thought I’d misspell your name too). Every human has some form a racism in them. If you say not, you are a liar.
BTW, have you been to Japan? Have you written a massive term paper in college about Pearl Harbor? Have you worked with any of the Japanese auto brands (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru)?
I have been to Japan. Think most of them are not racist? haha. I’ve done that massive term paper on PH. Maybe you would be doing yourself a favor my learning more about the Japanese. I have worked directly with both Honda (12 years total) and now Mazda (about 5 years now). When you’ve done those things and seen what I’ve seen, then come back and we will talk.
It’s no wonder, my daughter and SIL just bought a 2021 GMC 1500 4WD that the rear view trailer towing camera doesn’t work, and the Sirius part of the radio is defective. A friend has a 2021 GMC Acadia with the same radio program defect, also when the brakes are applied it sounds like metal to metal scraping but the dealer has checked and everything looks ok. Two different dealers that don’t know what to do about the problems are awaiting engineering input. I know what I’d do if I was in charge, go back to the supplier and say find a solution if you want to keep your contract or we’ll see you in court.
I noticed that Tesla is not on the list at all.
Face it for both GM & Ford they make their money from Fleet Sales. How do you think the F150 was the top selling vehicle so many consecutive years? GM offers the best corp rebate program for fleet vehicles followed by Ford, Toyota is not even close.
Yes, you can tout the Toyota resale value, but most companies want the cash break up front. So I don’t think lists like this phase GM or Ford all that much.
And why are you surprised. GM in NOT the company it was. With garbage like Barra they will probably disappear and don’t say it can’t happen, look at Eastman Kodak, yes it can happen and should if you can not care about your customer.
Eastman Kodak
Radio Corporation of America
Several steel companies
The above never evolved, or, they went into businesses they had no business getting into. RCA got into hotels and rental cars. Huh?!?
Some companies learned to evolve. When was the last time American Express delivered a package? When was the last telegram, Telex, or TWX transmitted? Yet, Western Union exists because it evolved, and went into different tasks, as Amex did with charge cards. Studebaker never went out of business. They just stopped making cars. It is gone now, but that is due to mergers and division sales. They never went bust.
Every time a class action suit is presented and some judge kicks it out due to “design flaws” you lose customers who spent money on trash that is not backed by a warranty. 8 speed automatics, cracking dash panels and more. It eventually cause customers to purchase elsewhere as they tire of poorly designed vehicles and wasting hard earned money. Lower case gm is banking on the Chinese market carrying them. If you look at how that country makes people “disappear” I’d bet quality will change there. I don’t think I’d buy gm again and that’s all I’ve owned my entire life. Their designs are laughable in current models.
Don’t forget to park your Bolt outside down the street before you get barbeque while you sleep and your fix for Cadillac CT6 PHEV wire harness came in.
Yes. Just like several Ford products with burning cruise controls. Not forgiving the Bolt, but they are far from a monopoly on electrical issues.
No surprise at all! Family across the street from us has a Malibu that has spent 50/50 at there house or the Chevrolet service center. They kept as even as a pain to have so many trips for repairs it was still under warranty. They drove home last night with a brand new Hyundai Sonata, Bill said the 10 year coverage means they will be able drive much farther than the Malibu they just got rid, which was at the end of the 3 years warranty and about to cost a them a lot of out of pocket expenses to the Chevy dealer to keep it running.
Warren Buffet once identified the “ABC’s of business decay” as arrogance, bureaucracy and complacency. Ironically, he’s been buying GM stock since 2012, and it currently represents about 1% of his portfolio. His GM stock has doubled in value over the nine year period, with the majority of that increase occuring over the last 11 months. Over the same period, the Dow has nearly tripled, Home Depot is up 6X, Apple 7X, FaceBook 9X. and Amazon 19X. No ABC’s among those companies.
Chevy GMC should be scared of RAM.my trips its R Ram Ram vehicles.
Um..we are “free agents”, that’s what gm calls us when they don’t want us.
I change vehicles somewhat frequently. I also just moved to a new place accessible only by climbing some grades.
Due to a nasty set of falls on the ice last winter when I had to get out and walk due to no traction on a hill, I am considering an AWD. If I find my present vehicle does not cope with the roads to the new house this winter, it will be trade-in time.
I’m already looking around. The Equinox is out due to lack of good power. I am elderly, but still like some “zip and go” in my cars. The Traverse is in consideration if I can find one to try on, to see if I fit. I’m a big dude, and I find most center consoles so big they cramp me in.
The only thing on offer from GM without a console is if I buy a Tahoe and order an LS with the console-delete. Good luck finding a dealer willing to place an order! And, no, I don’t want a pickup.
The Durango and Grand Cherokee both have footwells that are too small for my 14EEEE feet, not to mention consoles the size of a young chest freezer.
Ford? Based on past dealer experience and their extensive recall record, they aren’t even in the running.
I’ve looked at a lot of vehicles on the market, and virtually no one offers an AWD I want, or can fit in comfortably with the possible exception of a Pacifica with AWD. No console, and plenty of headroom.
GM has nothing I want, but in truth, virtually no one else provides the driver comfort I seek, except in pickups.
GM has such awful brand loyalty ,because GM has not been loyal to there brands or customers .
No big beautiful Cadillacs , no respectable Buicks sedans , no full line of ANYTHING
As for Toyota ,I WAS told how great they are ,BUT know people with EXPENSIVE repairs on them.
Bot saying they aren’t good ,but far from perfection .
Kia – Hyundais are throw away cars , while Hondas are bores .
If each remaining division of GM would of kept at least one traditional car : Built the Wildcat ,offered an Eldorado with the Blackwing , forgot the CT 5 &6 ( even writing those stupid robotic names makes me sick ) , while keeping the excellent CT – 6 , ( Deville ) , they would be much better off .