General Motors is currently revamping its full-size SUV lineup with a host of upgrades and changes, including the integration of a new independent rear suspension (IRS) setup, the latest example of which arrived with the introduction of the 2021 Chevrolet Suburban and 2021 Chevrolet Tahoe. What’s more, the full-size GM trucks lineup, which includes the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, is also rumored to be making the move to a new IRS, as we covered previously. Now, GM Authority is here to tell you the real reason behind these moves – electric power.
The General is currently hammering away on building electric variants of the T1-based GM trucks and SUVs. The new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) will utilize a variant of the GM T1 vehicle platform known internally as BT1 (Battery T1).
According to sources familiar with the project, the electrically motivated architecture necessitates an IRS, as the current leaf spring configuration doesn’t play well with the battery placement design.
Typically, an IRS configuration comes with a long list of benefits, including improved ride quality, improved handling and control, and for enthusiasts, the potential for greater wheel articulation in off-road environments. However, there are disadvantages as well, including greater weight, higher maintenance and manufacturing costs, and lower payload and towing capacity. That said, the tradeoff is likely worth it for the majority of buyers, including GM truck customers.
With regard to the vehicles likely to be affected by these sweeping architectural changes, the full-size GM trucks, including the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, are at the top of the list. The vehicles in the full-size GM SUV lineup are also potential recipients of the new architecture and electrification, including the Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Suburban, GMC Yukon, and Cadillac Escalade.
What’s more, a potential Hummer revival could take place atop the new BT1 architecture as well. As we covered previously, Hummer is rumored to be headed for a comeback as a new all-electric brand.
Back in November, GM CEO Mary Barra confirmed that the automaker would indeed introduce a fully electric pickup in the fall of 2021.
It’s currently unclear which GM models will receive electric derivatives, but our sources indicate that an EV pickup and EV version of the Escalade are pretty much a certainty at this point.
Subscribe to GM Authority for more Chevrolet news, GMC news, Cadillac news, and around-the-clock GM news coverage.
Comments
Contrary to some here think GM has had the EV truck program running in the background.
GM dropped a big clue when this truck came out to state the platform was designed to accept Fuel Cell and Electric drivetrains.
Also these latest IRS developments are just part of the plan not recent developments.
The key is to make this T1 work for various drivetrains to simplify the truck program and help make the EV trucks more affordable and profitable.
They are still, all of them, many years behind Tesla. The sparse charging infrastructure is going to be a big negative for many years.
If Gm can keep the EV version very similar to the gasoline Silverado, just as Ford will do on its electric F-150, then the cost increase of being electric will be recovered in a few years from the maintenance and gasoline savings.
The problem is most customers are about the money out of their pocket now not years from now. Also they are about rebates that reduce the price of the truck. That is why the fall sales generate the most sales volume.
The key is to find ways to share platforms that. Will move the EV closer in price at the point of sale then they will see the savings over time. That is till the battery needs replaced…………
Prius owners gasp now just for the hybrid replacement battery. I know I hear them gasp as they search for a cheaper than dealer battery.
This will still take time but it is progress in the right way.
The bottom line of any vehicle be it EV or ICE is sale price. Many are priced out now and adding $10k at the point of sale just is not in the budget for many.
Also at present and as in the good many years oil prices are down so recovery of the money spent on fuel is not much if you don’t charge at home.
Many remote chargers that charge by the hour are more than a fill of gas and sully less range. Travel can be more expensive in an EV unless you run on to free or discounted charging. Most charge $35 per hour in the Midwest. That is when one can be found.
At the current cost of gas and electricity, (2.50/ gallon/1.2ev gallon) and assuming the battery pack cost no more than the bolts it would take 215000 miles for an EV to pay for itself. Nothing about an EV is economic, nor tough. Smoke and mirrors to get the corporate hippies of their back. Gm will make 200, sell 200 and pay a fortune on press for those vehicles alone, not counting r&d cost.
It seems that you are an EV Scrooge. EV do save money in the long term ownership. All the car and truck manufacturers are getting on the EV bandwagon. Present EV and hybrid owners (I am one myself) can provide testimony of all the savings (money and time) and driving fun than an EV gives. And as for battery cost, that dropped years ago. Go and see your Chevy dealer and test drive the Bolt EV. Then imagine the same savings and fun for the Silverado.
Your opinion is only yours!
No, I just do the math. EV’s only pay for themselves over currently in California with combined state and federal tax credits plus the fact that gas on the west coast is nearly 2$ a gallon more than the rest of the country. There an EV may take 50000miles to pay for itself, 75000 if you were to invest that initial cost in stocks and have it grow over that same Perriod. It’s math. Even with upcoming solid state barriers and increased production, EV’s will still be a hard sell without government incentives as states will start using EV taxes for road construction and ICE engines are slated for increases in efficiency with almost no forcasted increase in gas prices over the next 5-10 years.
It may save a little money out the gate but in the long run it will not. All types of fees will start to happen. Just the start of the new year many states are charging more for registration for EV’s over gas because of lost tax dollars from no Gas Tax. This will even get larger when they realize that EV’s weigh more and cause more damage to roads. Next will be a charge to get recycle the batteries as they are not very cheap to recycle and depose of. Their will probably be a surge charge on charging your car other than home.
Ev’s will not replace ICE until you can go across country and charge up in 5 minutes. We are long way off and with ICE engines getting great gas mileage its going to be hard for EV’s to keep growing. New Fees are going to be issue going forward and will cause a lot of sticker shock.
Ray you’re clueless……
In every sense.
How many oil changes in 215000 miles? Say you change oil every 7500 miles in a gasoline engine, and never in a electric motor.
That’s 28 oil changes for the gas suburban, and 0 for the electric suburban. At 8 quarts per oil change, shops will charge about $100 or more for synthetic oil changes.
So once the battery has “paid for itself”, who is paying for the $2,800 in oil changes?
215,000 miles is about 14 years of service. So your argument is that the lack of oil change cost will make the EV worth the money? Over 14 years? It will cost more than that upfront for the vehicle. Also what is the battery replacement cost? Will GM make them lifetime like Hyundai or 100,000 miles or 10 years like KIA or…. Actually GM warranties the batteries for 8 years or 100,000 miles on the volt so there goes that oil change argument. The Chevy volt battery replacement is 15K!
Tesla model 3 batteries cost anywhere from 3000 to 7000$ depending on the your configuration. These batteries are designed to cycle 1500 times and last 300-400 000 miles. Gas for a relatively efficient vehicle would cost 14 to 20 000$ for 200 000km…i don’t think your claim of 14 years to pay off the batteries makes any sense. In that time, even if you calculate the cost of charging the Ev still comes out better very much quicker than you claim
Electricity isn’t free dude. That’s how it takes over 200kmiles or over 300k km for batteries to pay for themselves. Not to mention almost 1/3rd of a gallon of gas is taxes. When taxes are added to EV’s the price will be the same for gas and electric
I have one of those 8 quarters in my driveway. My GM dealer does it with a tire rotation for just over $60. And that is with 8 quarts full synthetic.
If I go to Walmart and score 2 5 quart jugs, its $24/gallon.
Corporate America ripping off citizens with high re-charge costs followed automatically. Why not? They say: we can rip them off for years before the courts shut us down…annnnd, we won’t go to jail. Ain’t this grand?
IRS would offer less articulation and ground clearance for off roading unless they utilize geared hubs or portal axles.
Why does no one talk about how you can drive across country in an EV in a reasonable time. Stopping every 3 hours to spend hours recharging is not practical. The Chevy Volt allowed you to do that, so it was dropped, why. EVs work as a commuter car, but not for taking a cross country trip.
There are a few stories but they get little traction due to the cost and extra time.
As for the Volt who would want to drive a Volt cross country. Great city car but not a good GT.
Not saying it’s my choice for cross country, just saying the tech allows you to drive without stopping for long charging times.
People talk about it all the time, if you read the right sites. Modern EVs can drive 5 hours, then recharge in less than an hour. By the time you eat a meal and hit the head, you don’t wait on the car much, if any. Rivian claims their truck will go 400 miles. Tesla claims their top-trim truck will go 500. They’ll be expensive, but mass production by GM and Ford should bring the prices down.
The Volt was the best plugin hybrid (long electric range, then much longer on gas), but not enough people buy small cars anymore. That’s why GM killed it.
There will still be gas and diesel trucks from GM. Nobody is saying *you* have to get an electric truck. They could offer a PHEV truck as well. Chevy pointed out that the current Silverado is designed to accept all types of powertrain.
The people from the SAE automotive magazine drove a Jag EV from Pittsburg to Detroit and back.
It took longer by like 4 hours total. They recharged 7 times if I recall one was free and spent more on electric than they would have on gas.
Now most people who travel today are not tourist. We gas, piss go and eat on the run. Time at the destination is more valuable than in the middle of Bluefield WV.
Here in the mid west and the eastern mountains. We drive and keep going. It is not uncommon to drive from Ohio to Fl with out stopping.
I know the same for I5 in California from SF to LA as it is not the PCH. There is just nothing between but farms.
As for the. Lot. Most buyers if they want electric want electric. If not they want gas. People know about the Volt and are very aware of it but yet no one wants to buy it in great numbers,
Many fleet Volts here are all smoking in the cold because people don’t charge them.
It was a good idea when ranges were very short but today the anxiety.
This is an ever evolving deal. EV is getting better but we still need advancement. Hybrids are declining in interest as EV improve. Finally most people wil not make the jump from ICE till thing are on equal footing price, range and charge times equal to a fill of gas.
The one wild cars Is the price of oil. The next election may make that call. If the present admin stays it will be cheap. If the Dems win they will drive up oil prices with regulations. As to the whys you can argue six ways to Sunday but that is just where it is.
C8.R,
Before I thumbs down you, Can I get your GOP excuse why I paid $4.75 per Gallon with Bush and $2.29 per gallon with Obama ?
I hate politics on auto forums but, I love to here your take !
This kind of talk is why I changed my party from GOP to IND.
I have watched all for 40 years now, stocks, fuel prices, ammo costs, National Deficit, etc
The last 2 GOP people, stocks have trended down horribly in last two years, fuel prices have sored in last two years, and national debt has exploded !
And I used to drink the Kool Aid, I was on that side, again, brainwash me to your thoughts !
The USA is SO, SO, SO far behind ( on average ), the whole developed world is crushing us.
But its just my opinion, Ha
I generally don’t read your post but sinc e you are not stating customer service I did.
My comment is not pro GOP but just based on what I have heard the Dem candidates state. Biden just the other day stated he was willing to eliminate blue collar jobs for a green agenda and others have stated they supported higher cost to support th e green agenda.
It comes down to the next election as to economic cost and fuel cost as to if they go up or down. This is simply based on what the people running are saying.
I am not a fan of politics here but in this case it will affect what the MFGs will build.
Even if the GOP wins this one the next could change the other way and this is why everyone is working on EV models now.
Right now oil prices are down and gas in most of the country is as low as it has been in 10 years. Just paid $2.23.
The truth is we are still the leader of technology development by a wide margin. Where we are getting our a$$ handed to us is mfg.
Shipping and communications have turned third world countries into major mfg hubs. Their people are able and willing to work for much less and American are just not willing to pay more to have it made here.
Everyone complains about imported items at Walmart but they still shop there because it is cheaper.
America can get more mfg back but people will have to actually pay more or workers would have to be willing to work for less. I see little change with either group.
The debt is a problem but till both parties agree to cut the waste it will never get better. We have the income but wasted spending is killing us. This is a problem also on the state, city and county levels.
Whil most companies work to do more with less the government is the opposite.
Not opinion just the way it is and I am not happy with it or either side either.
Foremost Thanks ! C8.R
Just a few more opinions.
The American worker, DID NOT do this !
The American worker HAS NEVER had any control of moving investment over seas.
The American worker HAS NEVER has a say in what GM or any other US company makes.
The American worker is just that, A WORKER.
I AM NOT going into some theory crap of what admin did this and what admin did that.
What I will say is in the 50’s when the US middle class was built, the American worker was paid enough to buy more then build more.
And at that same time the TOP paid more everything.
Wages, and Taxes.
The US top went after the cheap labor abroad, and the foreign companies came after the US workers money.
Who is winning ?
Both the US top and the US worker drive foreign vehicles, look at market share, all but trucks !
That’s where China comes in to play.
Unless the US top bring back to the US worker the Chinese profit, this trouble will get worse and worse. The US worker will not have the money to purchase what the Chinese worker can.
As the Chinese worker drives Cadillacs, the US worker is driving Camrys.
The American worker will not fix this, they do not have the power !
The US government will not fix this, they do not have the power !
The only ones that can fix this is the US top.
And the US top are not so much the top anywhere other than in the US anymore.
You see money is relative. I get such a kick out of those who think they are the 1% any more, while driving there 2000 Cadillac Deville, and living in there 1980 House.
My niece just started at Microsoft and makes more I one paycheck then her dad does in a year.
Boomers, do you still have all the money ?
What are you investing it in ? GM
But just keep watching the slow death, and blaming the people who have NO POWER to change anything.
And waiting for a presidential savior !!
Dude, Again, your facts are wrong. The American Pickup Truck holds the market share in the US for vehicles sold. Stop trying to BS your way out of the corner you backed yourself into. You know nothing, and your comments prove just that. Also, stop referring to boomers and who holds wealth. You sound even dummer with every post. Just sit down and listen for a moment and realize that you could actually learn something.
Freethinker,
Is that true, DUDE !!
There are more pickup trucks sold in the US than other vehicles ?
I agree if you are talking US trucks VS other US vehicles, and I’m not even sure of that !
If all three truck manufacturers sell 1 million trucks each per year – OK
Look at Camry, Accord, Equinox, Edge, and that’s only 4 – OK
You still have all the Jeeps, Honda SUVs, Toyota SUVs, Audi SUVs, Lexus SUVs.
DUDE – You better check your numbers — DUDE !!!
I still could be wrong.
If you are talking ONE SINGLE MODEL, you are correct, as there are just a few truck models – OK.
But if you are trying to say the largest market in the USA is the truck market,
I THINK YOU ARE WRONG !!!
But I will admit I am wrong if you put forth the data here and prove it.
but I guess its my opinion
Clarification is a fair ask. What I was trying to convey is that Pickup trucks outsell any other auto manufacturer period. Not to be confused with collectively, but singularly. For example the F Series truck has sold more vehicles in America for 42 years straight that any other brand of vehicle. (Meaning Make and Model). So outselling Camry or Civic or Accord etc. collectively as a total percentage of market shares of all motor vehicles in the US, the pickup truck holds 18% market share. The top 3 vehicles by model sold in the US are Ford, Chevy and Dodge… then the Toyota Rav-4 Is number 4. So pickup trucks outsell any other vehicle in the US by a long shot. Not to be confused with “pickup trucks outsell all other vehicles combined”.
Thinker
Trying to keep it simple for you.
You say all……. that BS ?
To say what. You’re off subject most of the time. Look at all your ?????
What’s you point ?
Freethinkers lol….
Someone has brainwashed you, you believe you’re own BULL$HIT….
You’re more like simpleminded that says all that crap to say what ???
Scott ZL1 – Sorry, who are you? Not sure what you’re referring too since you were to lazy to specify.
You’re off subject the article is about IRS….
THIS IS NOT YOUR SOAPBOX…..
You are incorrect, it was the U.S. government that drove the corporations to look for labor overseas because of their over regulation, corporate taxes, and red tape here at home. Therefore, the government also has the ability to bring those jobs back home where they used to be, as Trump has done with his tax cuts and deregulation. As a general rule, Democrats want larger government, more regulation, and taxes; to pay for their regulations, taxes, handouts, and inefficient size. Republicans on the other hand, want smaller more efficient government, less regulation, and thereby less corporate and individual tax, which is the way to get jobs back here as we have seen with the currently lowest unemployment rate this country has seen in the last 50 years. Let’s face it, the truth of the matter is that if corporations are allowed to flourish here, so do the people, and America can be innovative and prosperous again.
And yet Trump is president and gas is cheap. Maybe it is more complicated than who’s president. Maybe Obama subsidized it to lower the price to give everyone the illusion all is well.
What Obama did was released strategic oil reserves when supplies got tight and oil prices traded higher.
Trump supported new oil lines and more oil production with less regulation in our country to make us the largest oil production country in the world.
While we are looking for and developing new technologies we still need to keep Fossil fuels viable till cost and availability is to acceptable levels.
From a strategic standpoint we also need to keep them viable. WW2 was lost due on the lack of oil to Germany and Japan.
WW2,
What the h3ll are you boomers thinking today?
You do know what drones are right ?
We need to keep OIL going to fight a war like WW2, WHAT !!!
I agree Obama did release oil reserves, but I think he also opened more oil drilling up. I have friends who worked in ND when this happened.
Then the foreign oil suppliers started drilling more and the cost came down even more.
The US dependency on foreign oil was at the lowest level EVER under Obama in the 40 years I have followed, and factor in the population growth, even more so.
The combo of small fuel efficient vehicles and more production.
Now the GOP still produces at high levels, and so does the foreign suppliers, but they all reap higher profits as we are now using PIG amounts again.
But remember this is also good for the stock market as oil stocks are Boomer strong holds.
When Yers make green energy equal to what Boomers did with oil, all will be equal.
But remember it costs nothing for the sun to shine or the wind to blow, just need to move it.
Is Germany loosing today ?
Or is the US loosing today ?
How about Japan, are they loosing ?
Look at the workers in those countries.
We bought a German company in the 2000s those German workers thought we were fools working as we did for what we were paid. We thought we would tell them how they should work, Ha, Ha, they just did not show up.
All you boomers here need to get out in the world, WE ARE LOOSING, BIG !!!
No wonder GM is getting sued all the time and suing companies all the time.
Blaming everyone else as we as a country are just falling farther and farther behind.
Blame the tech companies, blame Russia, blame GOP, blame Dems, blame the UAW workers, blame the top, blame, blame, blame.
In my opinion.
Well I am back to stop reading once the reality drops in the post.
I did get to what the he’ll I am thinking.
Well the reality is we are still dependent on oil to the point that if it was cut off today we would stall in mfg and the military would not be able to move. You do realize that plane would not fly and trucks would not move and tanks would sit still.
While they are looking into alternative fuels like electric they still are oil based.
Also if they move into war there is no way to charge in the theater of war.
It is kind of like deciding not to eat meat before you buy any new food to replace it.
Sorry but history melts snow flakes who think they know it all.
“The last 2 GOP people, stocks have trended down horribly in last two years”
Please explain how the market is down when CNBC is reporting the following gains for 2019?
The S&P 500 is up 28%.
The DOW is up 22%.
The Nasdaq is up 35%.
OK JWL,
Follow this.
Look at the last final GOP, do I need to explain that ?
Now to this one,
Don’t worry I am reaping the 22% or more today !
How do you think I bought that $80,000.00 Denali HD ?
But the question is, do you bet the current GOP will win again ?
If you bet he will, and he does not, it will drop the first two years of the new admin as the money slowly leaves.
GOP markets never drop first term, as the economy is how they think they win.
GOP markets drop at end of last term.
Look at Regan, then Bush #1
What did Clinton get ! What did he leave for Bush #2
What did Bush #2 leave for Obama, $5.00 gas and a 10,000 DOW.
What did Obama leave for this GOP
Look at the deficits who added how much.
JWL are you just looking today, or the last 40 years ?
Remember investing is long term.
But like I like to say here, we will see, we always do.
But its just opinion.
Im done with the politics here sorry.
Well in my area of Upstate, NY the average price of gas was around 3.50 per gallon under Obama and under Trump it is a dollar less at around 2.50 and that is what the current price is as we speak!
Joe Yoman,
What about Bush #2 ?
I average all fuel prices in the year at tax time, ill let you know on the current GOP vs Obama, however gas is cheap now and has been for the last 3 years and that is good for all of us.
But I am never talking one particular time in history, I am talking average trending of money paid.
We could all sit and wait and say, I remember that time when I paid 25 cents for a candy bar, but that means nothing in overall reality.
So you have the data and you paid 3.50 per gallon on average for 8 years of Obama.
Remember I was a GOP, give me where you have the data, switch me back !
Bush #2 was the last GOP I was behind, Bush #1 I was in agreement with.
The current one I am still thinking, I hate regulation so good, I hate foreign wars, yet today here we go again, I hate the national debt, and here we go again, so still up in the air.
I’m done here with politics !
The average, through 45 months in office? Obama: $3.04; Bush: $2.98 Source Forbes. I have not independently verified these numbers but Forbes is somewhat credible.
The truth is Presidents don’t have much effect on the overall oil prices. Sure foreign policy can have an affect, but there are many factors outside of the US that control gas prices.
In the end, Gas was higher under Obama than Bush. So you should reevaluate your comments.
Freethinker,
OK, I agree you are correct on all of it.
Obama created the great recession and all of the added costs to recover are his fault,
Dam Obama !
If you think Obama is to blame for the recession that clearly started years before as our US jobs were being ” outsourced “, well enough said.
I sat back and watched my neighbors build big houses and buy new vehicles while making less than half of what I did, HOW !!
We found out HOW ! Who again did this help ? The rich lost money and the poor lost more.
And this is why I am done with politics here.
What crack are you smoking dude? I haven’t said nor implied Obama was responsible. He wasn’t even in office. SMH
In 2009 in New Hampshire I paid 4.26 /gal at a discount station. I believe some of this may have been Obama’s fault. DId he stop permitting for new refineries?
Freestinker
You must be a Dem / liberal something….
Stinker
The subject matter is Independent Rear Suspension.
Not your soap box…
Go preach tomorrow…
Hold on there buddy, you said National Debt Exploded under the GOP. That is factually incorrect. The National Debt doubled under President Barack Obama from ~10 trillion to ~20 trillion. The most gain ever under anyone, ever. The stock market crash in 2008, was a result of government intervention in lending practices by Banks to People. The government told the banks the lending standards needed to be eased in order to create “fair” opportunity for borrowing among the middle and lower classes. This backfired.
Freethinker,
I love that ” Hold on there ”
You look at the trend lines of the national debt over admins or years, sure it has gone up since Clinton, but look at the line !
It was headed straight up under Bush#2, also the bail outs were put in place by Bush #2 and Henry Paulson, remember, and I am GOP at that time.
Free market capitalist here, they all should have went broke and GM included !!
Is that not what I was taught by my GOP grandpa, Yes it was.
I didn’t get bailed out, but I invested a lot then.
You don’t have to lecture me on what caused what and whos fault it is.
Here we are again, a GOP WAR !
Just my opinion.
First of all Bush had little to nothing to do with the decisions made during the credit crisis. Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke were the main government players, along with CEOs of the largest Banks. With all due respect you have no idea what you’re talking about. I earned my undergrad in Finance and am a Licensed Broker. I am a subject matter expert in Asset Backed Finance, specifically Residential Mortgage Backed Securities. I know what I’m talking about. My suggestion to you is to go read a few books about the crisis, Too Big to Fail is a good one to start, and then you will understand what happened and why the bailouts were necessary. I didn’t like that we the people had to pay the tax bill but it was a heck of a lot cheaper than the alternative, which would have been a complete crash of the world economic system and ensuing chaos. (Drastically more than what took place)
Also stop saying you were GOP, like you’re identifying with “US” GOP’ers. You sound like a liberal when you say that. So much division. You don’t have to identify with a side. Rather Than picking a side you should just stand by fundamental constitutional values. I’m not GOP, just because I am conservative. Trump isn’t GOP either. He’s more of an independent than anything with conservative constitutionally based values.
Freethinker,
I just love it when people like you preach to others,
I got my degree from blah, blah, blah, and I know more about whatever than you,
To what end, why does that make you better, and again, you know nothing about me !
Also, you say to big to fail, and it would have been horrible, HOW DO YOU KNOW !
Y2K was supposed to be the end of the world also.
People like you think that human life will end without your.
Who was running K-Mart, people like you ?
Who was running the banks then, people like you ?
Who was crashing Boeing planes, people like you ?
Who was running Sears, people like you ?
Who was running GM at bankruptcy, people like you ?
How about IBM ?
How about GE ?
And I no longer have a side, so you are correct there !
And Trump was a DEM longer than a GOP so you are correct there !
But the crap history and book smarts you think makes you some how better than the people paying your wage, I have never quite understood.
Its EGO right ?
Maybe Arrogance ?
How is that working for you ?
Do you do whatever you want every day of your life ?
Some of us do, and we don’t need people like you to learn us how its done !
My opinion,
Over
You’re crazy dude. I’m engaging you in a conversation online because I noticed how stupid you sound on here. You received more thumbs down than yo on every single comment you’ve posted. I’m not preaching. I’m telling you the truth. You sound like an idiot and you’re rambling on and on assuming things that don’t make any sense whatsoever. People like me did what? All of that time you just wasted typing all that out? All I told you was that I know an incredible amount more about the financial crisis and what caused it than you do. If that hurts your feelings then good. That means you know it’s true. I’m not sure where you’re going with Y2K and ending the world. I’m speaking solely on the severity of the financial crisis if there wasn’t capital injection.
For the record, no I don’t fly planes or run companies. Maybe someday but not now. You’re demonizing intelligent people simply because they run large companies. There is a lot of hate coming from you right now. You don’t need to announce every comment that it’s “your opinion”. We know.
“To what end does getting a degree make you better?” – it doesn’t. It’s what I do with my degree, and how hard I work that makes me better than you. Yes, I said it. I’m better. In every way. I’m THAT competitive. Beat me at anything and I’ll out work you to come back and prove I’m better. THAT is what makes me better. The degree just opened more doors for me. So quit your Drawn out, half baked, whinny arguments. If you’re actually done like you say you are, then quit responding.
First
you have no idea of my degree !
Out work me, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, good one !
Your better DUDE I get it.
Its called EGO !
Arrogance, that’s what you think makes you better !
You seem like a smart DUDE, look it up !
And how do humans pay your wage.
What do you do to earn money ?
Its a service for people !
Even if its a service for your boss, how does he make his money to pay you ?
That’s another thing people like you do not understand.
When you work for people, people pay you, unless you are a servant for a billionaire who was given billions, you work for the people who buy what your selling, and you are selling yourself.
Its like an arrogant farmer when they say, if you eat today, thank a farmer.
Its like an arrogant trucker when they say, if the food is on your table, thank a trucker.
Does that mean I need to thank you for a stock increase ?
You all wouldn’t move if it wasn’t for the rubber worker making tires !
Do you get that ?
Its like at an event when the announcer says, lets all thank a Veteran.
Why is it we don’t stand and thank a taxpayer like you ?
We would not have a solder without a tax payer !!
Its people, all people, humans !
Do you like to fix your sewer pipes ?
There is a human person who does that !
Its an example, you know what that is, correct ?
People like you think for some reason you are more important.
Your degree was a step to open a door, that’s OK that’s what you needed, I guess.
People like you think, other people can’t do it, that’s not true, some people DO NOT WANT TO.
And if you are no longer talking politics I will talk all day, I might learn something, form a smart guy like you !
So help me out here.
If GM borrows money, to loan to the customer, to buy a GM vehicle.
Then the customer can not pay, so the vehicle gets repossessed.
Who makes the money ?
GM got there money, from selling the vehicle – right ?
Yet GM got there vehicle back – right ?
So by doing so, GM can falsely sell vehicles correct or not ?
Or is this a way for GM to funnel money to their dealers ?
But now there is a lot of repossessed vehicles sitting around does GM own those ? Does the dealer own those ? Or does the bank who loaned GM the money to loan to the customer own them.
How is this different than the housing troubles of past recession ?
People are still spending money they do not have and do not make enough to do what someone is allowing them to do.
glad your gone freestinker….
Btw, What people pay my wage? I work for a private sector company. I get paid what we earn. I don’t get paid by the tax dollars of Americans. Actually it’s just the opposite. I pay lots of taxes.
Governments and the government workers suck money out of the economy with very little return. They will keep doing so until there is no money, or a viable economy left. Between government and welfare, us working people keep getting squeezed tighter and tighter in the wallet.
LifelongGMOwner – answering your quote below.
“If GM borrows money, to loan to the customer, to buy a GM vehicle.
Then the customer can not pay, so the vehicle gets repossessed.
Who makes the money ?
GM got there money, from selling the vehicle – right ?
Yet GM got there vehicle back – right ?
So by doing so, GM can falsely sell vehicles correct or not ?
Or is this a way for GM to funnel money to their dealers ?
But now there is a lot of repossessed vehicles sitting around does GM own those ? Does the dealer own those ? Or does the bank who loaned GM the money to loan to the customer own them.”
When a car is repossessed, whatever bank is financing The car gets it back. It’s collateral for the loan. That bank can decide to sell it again to cover the money they “lost”. In your scenario, if GM finances the car for the customer, they took a loss upfront by selling the car to the customer and not getting an equivalent pile of cash. What they got was a promissory note or contract that binds the customer to make payments on the loan that GM gave. If that agreement is broken, GM isn’t getting the cash flow, so they take the car back, and hopefully resell it. They actually would lose money in this type of case due to initial depreciation of the vehicle. What GM would do though to mitigate this risk is sell that “cash flow” to a bank. A bank would buy lots of these cash flows and wrap them into what’s called an asset backed security, which is essentially a pool of similar loans or “cash flows” that are wrapped into one tradable security. These ABS securities are then sold on the primary and secondary bond trading markets to investors. Investors would then earn a return based on the total cash flows of all of the underlying loans that make up the ABS. This is know as a pass through security. The cash from the customer flows through the original bank that issued the loan and continues to the end investor of the ABS. ABS’ are structured into what’s know as a waterfall structure. Tranche A would be the highest rated bond since that tranche gets paid before the others (B,C,D, etc…) but also be the lowest return since it’s the lowest risk. The bottom tranches in the security would only receive cash flow after the other tranches hence carry higher risk of Prepayment or Non Payment. They must offer higher returns in the form of interest to remain attractive to investors. This is typically how cash from auto lenders ends up moving through the financial system. So yea GM got paid, but that isn’t because they were able to sell a car, collect the cash, repossess it and sell it again. It’s because they were willing to pay a small fee to an investment bank to remove the risk of non payment in return for cold hard cash which GM can then reinvest into the company and produce more cars. It’s what makes the economic system work.
You need a good CPA with 3 ledgers. Pay a lot less in taxes…
I did the thinking for you for free…
Freethinker lol
You talk way to much of subject…
???
Tesla model 3 batteries cost anywhere from 3000 to 7000$ depending on the your configuration. These batteries are designed to cycle 1500 times and last 300-400 000 miles. Gas for a relatively efficient vehicle would cost 14 to 20 000$ for 200 000km…i don’t think your claim of 14 years to pay off the batteries makes any sense. In that time, even if you calculate the cost of charging the Ev still comes out better very much quicker than you claim
Doubt we will see IRS on the HD’s anytime soon, but it’s a great idea for the 1500’s.
For sure. IRS is not for everyone in a truck.
A full electric HD is also probably a bad idea at this time.
But I’d love to see some sort of plug-in hybrid HD for increased torque and cheap fuel for short trips — but still having gas/diesel for long hauls.
I just have a few opinions on this IRS topic.
Remember I am 51 years old, and live in South Dakota, so here it goes.
IRS and IFS are great ! for the reasons they are great, its like ALL human advancements, at what costs, and what will the public let be. Its like Cadillac pushing the 2.0T and the GM 8 speed junk transmission, the public is pushing back and the Cadillac sales numbers prove it !
Any way back to topic IFS and IRS, ride quality, space, handling, are better, YEP !
Reliability, costs, customer value, NOT BETTER !
Sure the mid-sized and 1500 are urban grocery getters, today, and for any reliability and long term WORK you need a HD.
I have had over 1,000,000 miles on solid axel GM trucks, still own 2, and NEVER had the tire troubles, alignment troubles, vibration troubles, just plain old driveline troubles, as in the IFS and IRS.
So look at the LARGEST number of GM vehicles sold —
So look at the LONGEST LASTING GM vehicles on the road —
So look at the HIGHEST PROFIT GM vehicles today —
— ALL WERE THE LAST SOLID AXLE GM VEHICLES BUILT —
————————— coincidence —————————–
—————————- ? ————————————
Just like all human advancements, some are good, some are bad.
For those of us who need a work truck, we will need a HD from any brand !
For the masses the IFS and IRS will be fine, less reliable, and more troublesome and costly, but will be fine !
For service centers, great also, more parts to fail, more alignments, more tires sold, you get it —
More costs — Less value —
GM isn’t making anything better, unique, advanced.
GM is again, just following the trend, but behind, as usual !!!
in my opinion
IRS provides less articulation for off roading not more, as the article states.
Correct. The benefit to off-roading should be extra ground clearance.
It’s interesting (to me) how consumer demand is shaped and driven, not only by market forces, political platforms, and economics, but also by the less obvious things, like public fears over safety, insurance costs and range anxiety… and concerns about longterm viability, durability, environmental impacts… not to mention all the societal pressures, peer pressure, hype and outright fear mongering over alternative energy.
For a little perspective, we can look back at the birth of the automobile, and the competition between steam, electric and the late arrival… gasoline powered ICE.
The same arguments were debated in that period about the pros and cons of each. Gasoline was at a huge disadvantage because it was highly volatile, dangerous and difficult safely store at home, and lacked a large network of refueling stations. It also required knowledge of the basic workings of the ICE; how to maintain and fix it.
The merits of steam power were widely known and appreciated. Easy peasy comparatively. Electricity was the wild card, Lead/acid batteries were extremely heavy. Unless you lived near a power plant, recharging your car required the purchase of a separate engine, coupled to a generator, that fed a huge voltage inverter panel.
The energy density of gasoline as a portable, easily refillable fuel won out… thanks to Rockefeller’s Standard Oil company, and his (soon to be convenient) chain of Gas Stations, and Fords Model T.
In comparison, it seems gasoline and ICE is to the steam engine, what Tesla is to Henry Ford
You’re fool… Gasoline engines were actually VERY QUICKLY adopted as a much safer and easier way of powering equipment and steam cars were rare to begin with and never had a chance when gas engines were installed in mobile applications.
Steam engines had a bad habit of boiler explosions. Usually killing everyone around them when they went boom…Not very safe at all. Plus in terms of locomotives. The diesel engine won because ONE guy could run it instead of 3 or sometimes more…
I’m not sure where you gathered this laughable information. But it sounds like it came from a CNN special on green energy. Which for the record is NOT Viable without nuclear. Nor is it any better for the planet.
In reality, you are still going to pay for oil for both because it takes oil to lubricate and lesson the friction on both the gasoline and the electric vehicle and that’s not counting on the parts that it takes to put them together or to make them. It not about GOP or DEM’s, its really about meminmizing the use of the oil and gasoline we already have. I don’t know about you, but we all learn from our mistakes and progress to make them even better than we did before. Until then we are still going to wine about them until we get the better products.
I am all for using middle east crude and keeping our in the ground in the Us.
No most of American gas comes from the Americas south and central don’t forget gulf of Mexico….
The only electric motor I need in my car is the one used to start a high HP V8.
Because the present design doesn’t have enough oil seals that leak annually?
One result of this will be more and more buying the HD trucks. Many are already doing this now, as the don’t care for the “look” of the GM 1/2 ton trucks so they go with the HD for the higher ride height, more rugged styling, etc….
GM is fine with this as they make even more profit on the HD trucks.
I am very happy to hear this but I must admit I am probably not the Customer GM had or has in mind for their 1500 Twins.
EV people should pay 100% for their EV. I do not want my tax $ to go to helping someone buy a new vehicle. They then plug it in and the next thing you see is everyone’s electric bills increasing. Lets remove the Gov tax incentives and then start crunching #s between gas and electric.
GM needs to crawl out from under Oboma’s spindly shadow and make itself great again. Electric vehicles are a total waste of time until renewable electricity can stand on it’s own and the batteries are not costing more that the powertrain. MY cell phone battery is sickeningly garbage. An EV battery is no better maybe worse. All the same warnings. don’t discharge it completely, don’t charge it 100 percent either, loses charge sitting at airport or in your garage unused, has only so many cycles, individual cells are dying off within the darn 6500 cell contraption, starts on fire in a junkyard two weeks after it arrives, cold weather makes it much less effective, it costs maybe 5-8 thousand dollars, so you trade the vehicle for nothing on the dollar before the rest is worn out, battery is heavier than a v eight engine, it is built with a disastrous group of chemicals, battery disposal abuse will be rampant, any mountain terrain or fast acceleration kills the range to extreme short duration, what is the point about showing off the electric acceleration when doing that kills the reason for owning one, saving the earth. Hypocrisy to the extreme and at it’s worst, and can’t survive without subsides. And worse than anything else, it is all a pack of lies. They have a geared transmission ratio of about 10 to 1 because even an electric motor has not enough horse power at low rpms, yes you need hp to get work done. So it HAS a gearbox, it has oil in the gearbox, it has a differential gear, it needs to be cooled too. ICE is here to stay for many many aplications EVs can,t handle.
OK Freethinker,
Thanks for completing lesson #1
I was fully aware of everything you just confirmed !
I am now going to jump a little but I now fully understand that you can follow, and then explain with all your vast knowledge.
If the Tranche A and B, C, D, and so forth have so called ” bought ” the debt – OK.
There is still no one paying that debt – OK.
If you repossessed a persons vehicle, and they have nothing to loose, they file bankruptcy etc. – right ?
So when this goes farther and farther and deeper and deeper the Tranche A, B, C, D, etc. gets nothing from the turnip – OK.
So this is right back to me teaching your huge brain, see if you can follow – OK.
You DID NOT answer the question with your last statement,
How is this different than the housing troubles of past recession ?
People are still spending money they do not have and do not make enough to do what someone is allowing them to do.
And here is where I get to YOU BEING PAID BY THE TAX PAYER – OK
So when you and your boss types buy this high risk Tranche ( fancy name for crap debt ) and you and your boss type don’t get the blood from the turnip,
WHERE DOES YOUR WAGES COME FROM ?
Because the last time this happened, your wages came from ME, the TAX PAYER, ok and you from your tax dollars that you paid from the wages you made from the TAX payer that bailed your type out the last time – OK.
If the turnip does not start to produce more blood, for your type to squeeze out, the TAX PAYER WILL PAY YOUR WAGES AGAIN !!
It is your type that are writing the books you want me to learn from, as I watch the same things happen over and over and over again.
And its always, if my type doesn’t give your ( hard working a$$ ) type my money, the end of the world is coming, and here we go again !!
Just for once I would love the end of the world scenario to happen where the exact same TAX dollars are given to the people in this country doing things, making things, fighting wars, so that they can pay for the Tranche A debt, in the first place !
How is this not a win for everyone ?
The American middle class gets the TAX bailout, pays for their house and vehicle in the first place, and you and your boss type get paid as well.
And how this relates back to GM on this site, or vehicle competition.
Even the sales numbers published, for the share holder I am guessing, are FAKE. The vehicles are not sold, the vehicles are not driven, the vehicles are just sitting around loosing value. And again costing EVERYONE.
Please brain splain,
Thank You !
Just one more thing Freethinker,
You see, I look at you, the same way you look at me.
But I am not who you think I am.
I don’t care how much money you and your type have – OK.
I don’t speak, class warfare, and all that jazz.
You can have it all, all you want !!
Ready for it, because just like you do not want to clean $hit out of your sewer pipes, I do not want your job either !
That in no means is saying I could not do it, just like you could clean $hit out of your sewer !
But the American worker is cleaning the $hit out of your sewer.
But you keep needing them to do your job as well, by paying you or your type with their TAX dollars.
Ill make a deal with you, Ill keep my hard working a$$ making money paying Taxes, you keep your hard working a$$ making the economy work.
Its like GM blaming the worker, for making vehicles people do not want.
The worker is making the vehicles GM told them to make.
The worker does not want the job of saying what vehicle to make they want to make it.
But the people telling the worker what to make does not want to make the vehicle either.
Who is making all the money, and who is doing their job better ?
They both need each other, and neither wants the other to loose !
Get going, talk to the customer more, and fix the faulty parts you are using along the way !
Quit the lawsuits, and the blame, crap.
Because the rest or the world is moving while we are sitting like the vehicles not being paid for or driven !
In my opinion.
Shale yes!! I’m a fossil fuel man.Keep those Oversized golf carts close to the charging stations. I’m gassing up and takin a Long road trip.
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