It’s no secret that the GM 8-speed transmission is not great. Also known as the 8L90 and 8L45, the 8-speed pairs to rear-wheel-drive architectures in GM’s bread-and-butter products, including pickup trucks, SUVs, sports cars and luxury cars, and to say that it has a few issues would be a major understatement. Owners have complained far and wide about the 8-speed’s strange tendencies, such as waiting too long to upshift, downshifting at odd times and lurching when coasting or coming to a stop light. Long story short, GM needs to do away with the 8-speed and replace it with the much-improved 10-speed automatic… and quick.
In fact, GM was recently slapped with a class action lawsuit over the 8-speed gearbox. The plaintiffs assert the GM 8-speed transmission is defective, creating violent shakes, jerks, and a “hard shift” when selecting a gear. For its part, GM has filed 13 technical service bulletins concerning the unit, none of which remedied the issue. Following the lawsuit, more owners have spoken out over the issue, and we’ve even heard from our own readers about it on our forums.
The GM 8L90 transmission.
The issue seems to be most common when accelerating or decelerating as the transmission tries to find another gear, with the problem believed to stem from the torque converter as well as the gearbox’s shifting logic.
Following a litany of complaints, GM tried to “improve” the 8-speed in the 2019 Silverado and 2019 Sierra. In a press release, the automaker said it made “enhancements designed to improve shift quality, while also adding a new centrifugal pendulum absorber torque converter” to improve smoothness. The new revised transmission was assigned RPO code MQE, replacing the M5U 8-speed unit on the half-ton Silverado and Sierra, but not (yet) on other GM products like full-size SUVs or mid-size pickups.
The far-superior GM 10L80
Taking all that into consideration, The General seems to have grossly mishandled the entire situation with the 8-speed transmission. What it should have done is replaced the GM 8-speed transmission outright with its new 10-speed automatic (jointly developed with Ford) in every vehicle application. Of course, that would have required some doing, as the GM product lines that would qualify for the change-over today include:
- The 2019 and 2020 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 as well as the 2019 and 2020 GMC Sierra 1500 equipped with the 2.7L turbocharged four-cylinder L3B engine and 5.3L V8 L84 engine, with other engines being paired to either the 6-speed or the new 10-speed.
- The entirety of the full-size SUV lineup, including Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Suburban, GMC Yukon and Yukon XL, as well as the Cadillac Escalade and Escalade ESV. All of these will soon be replaced by all-new models for the 2021 model year, and here’s to hoping that GM doesn’t continue offering the 8-speed on lower-end trims.
- Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana models equipped with the 4.3L V6 LV1 engine.
- Sixth-generation Chevrolet Camaro LT equipped with the 2.0L turbocharged four-cylinder LTG engine
- Second-generation Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon
Previously, the GM 8-speed transmission was also used in sunset models like the Cadillac ATS, third-gen Cadillac CTS (except for the CTS V-Sport, which used an Aisin eight-speed), and the 2016-2018 Cadillac CT6 (the vehicle switched to the 10-speed transmission for the 2019 model year). In addition, the GM 8-speed transmission was also used in the 2016-2018 Camaro LT and SS, along with the now-discontinued C7 Corvette (apparently the 10-speed was too wide to fit into the C7).
The GM Authority Take
To play armchair quarterback for a quick minute, The General should have bitten the bullet and replaced the GM 8-speed automatic transmission in any applicable vehicles with the new 10-speed unit as soon as the new 10-speed was launched, no matter if the model was due for an update, refresh, or overhaul, or not. Instead, The General dug its heels in and continued to offer vehicles with the lackluster 8-speed, going so far as to launch all-new products – most notably the 2019 Silverado and 2019 Sierra – with the 8-speed that was “improved,” but that didn’t deliver any noticeable improvements.
Sure, switching to the 10-speed mid-stride would have created additional expenses and required additional engineering work. So yes, it would have cost GM money. But wouldn’t those funds have been well-spent when compared to the gobs of money GM will probably end up spending in legal fees to defend itself (and potentially pay out on the class action), while also causing reputation-based damage as a result of customer dissatisfaction in its bread-and-butter products, thereby potentially losing customers for life?
Why, yes it would have.
Comments
I rented a C7 with 5000 miles on it a few weeks ago in Fla. It had this trans and was
showing some of these symptoms described. What an mess.
Us Corvette guys always called it the “slush-box”. The 8-speed is terrible. Luckily, my GS has the 7-speed manual, as I would never buy a sports car with an auto.
Do you mean a regular Auto or even a DCT?
If push comes to shove and GM only offers a DCT in the Vette, I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet. I’m only in my 30’s, so I’ll probably see it during my lifetime. Sure, a DCT is better than a standard auto, but I want to feel the vehicle. I want to call the shots. Throwing levers is what makes driving a sports car fun.
Take it further. I want to control my own spark advance.
Wanting to shift you own gears is nothing out of the ordinary. I’m not certain why you’re throwing out the hyperbole.
No problem. They have an electric pickup on the horizon.
Well there is much more to this than the average arm chair quarterback has to face.
#1 the 10 speed is still not at full production,
#2 The number of 8 speed issues is more than it should be but not as large as you think. Most owners are not having issues.
#3 GM has not ignored this issue from the start as the string of TSBs that go from changing converters to changing transmissions and now is appears to have found the solution with a new Mobil 1 fluid. The owners with the new fluids are reporting good results.
#4 going to the 10 speed would mean all new testing for MPG and emissions for some models that may only be here one or two more years even if the 10 speed was available.
#5 the 500 pound gorilla in the room was also that being this appears to be a moisture in the fluid issue the same issue could be in the future of the 10 speed too.
The long and short of this was GM has spent the last couple years trying a number of fixes and finally just has found the issue. Also the shudder issue us not just a GM issue as other brands and transmission have suffered the same fate.
To this point mine shifts great and has been a good transmission, The majority of owners are also like my experience.
There has been a lot of miss information on this topic and the fact GM had no real answer till last winter has been difficult. But the reality is GM never abandoned the customers and they continued to look for a fix and it finally appears to be here,
Still why are only a smaller number being effected vs most not being effected?
The thing today is you just don’t do like in the past just bolt in a new transmission with out a lot of work and testing along with the electronics being adjusted to deal with it. Even the BCM voltage to the shifter has to be adjusted or it will not go into park these days.
Scott3, I have a 17′ ATS V that is having problems. I’ve complained several times to the dealer and they say it’s “normal”. You mentioned a new transmission fluid from Mobil. Do you know if there’s a service bulletin out about that and does replacing the original fluid with this new fluid help the problem on existing transmissions? Just curious if you know more because, if nothing else, it’s embarrassing when your$75K Caddy slams into second giving you whiplash when slowing costing through an intersection.
My experience has been though the Colorado and Canyon Forums where the problem has hit a limited number of owners.
Now the problem is a shudder at 40-45 MPG where it shakes.
The First to Second hard shift is another issue. It is normal to a point. From what I have noticed is it is more prevalent when the transmission is cold and if you lift off the gas or are very light on the gas. Under a load it goes away.
They can tune the transmission to help with programming but it can still happen once in a while. Mine is very rare to do it unless it has been sitting out in below freezing weather all day. It is gone by one shift in the first 3 miles.
When I got mine it was firm but the more miles I drove the less it has happened.
Today knock on wood my transmission is doing well. Smooth shifts and no complaints.
The real question is why some are having issues while others are not?
My Denali is a 17 also with the 3.6.
Scott3, thanks for the info. Is it possible this Mobil 1 fix does not apply to the 8L45 transmissions in GM cars?
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=11127
Here is the tsb Bulletin #18-NA-355
Yes for both 8 speeds with shudder
The complains have declined much since this came out. There have been a few that it did not work for but they may have had other issues.
Thanks, what you describe regarding the first to second shift is what mine is doing. seems the fluid is not a solution.
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=5754
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=7170
I have not kept up on these but here are two post I know of.
Mine was really harsh all the time newbut with an adjustment by the dealer and mikes it is dead smooth accept for the first shift when below freezing after sitting all day.
Even then if I stay on the gas it is smooth. Mine was only up shift never down shift.
The Fluid is not related here.
I think GM rushed this to market and this transmission is 50 times more complicated than the past models. GM is figuring things out but it has taken time. It also hurt not all were affected. It just makes it harder to pin down.
The shudder fluid change appears to be spot on.
I would recommend seeing another dealer as they can make it better on the harsh shift. I know that first hand. It may still have a rare hard shift in the cold but it will be much better. I have had TH 400’s with more harsh down shifts.
The real issue here is GM has kept very quiet on what they were doing and it has hurt to let people know they have not given up. I think much of that was do to the fact they really were not sure what was the trouble.
I know on the Shudder they were relying on Mobil to fix the fluid. I think it took 3 blends.
Also on the web there are many post but many are the same people over and over. On the other hand many who have no issue don’t post I am all good either.
This now is stored up by the law firm as they take it upon themselves to represent the owners and get GM to settle as it is cheaper to pay $20 million to settle vs $50 million towin. Then the law firm takes a large cut for fees and then the owners get a free oil change or $500 off a new car.
The web sites report it as news but they are often being used by the law firm not by their own will and never get part of the cut.
Also scott3 had his transmission replaced by GM.
So all the stuff he is explaining did NOT work on his either and GM replaced it for him.
Now he is the expert after his was replaced by GM.
So the long and short of it is.
scott3 had troubles ( like thousands of GM customers )
GM replaced scott3’s transmission ( NOT like GM has done for thousands of customers )
Yes a seal when I bought it brand new that let the converter drain back.
It had nothing to do with the complains of hard shift or shudder.
It would let the fluid drain out of the converter if it sat a couple says. Odds a seal was damaged when the converter was put in. GM replaced it 15k miles ago and nary an issue since.
It is rare and I have only seen one other case in this trans mission but I have seen it in other brands too on rare occasions.
It was an assembly issue not a defect in the transmission.
Now crawl back into your hole.
Took my truck in this morn.2 weeks old just over 1000 km.Severe conv. chatter that developed in the last few days,was assured that oil change should fix it.Why not change the oil during P.D.I to keep customer’s confidence in their purchase?
Because until the customer complains the dealer won’t get paid to do it. GM is very recalcitrant to spend any money unless the consumer complains and there is a TSB out on the issue. While pre-emptive servicing would be great unfortunately the dealer is caught in the middle which sux.
The TRUTH scott3,
The TRUTH is scott3 had his JUNK 8 speed replaced by GM.
Have you reminded your situation? I have had the fluid changed and it worked. Hope it works
“GM has not ignored this issue from the start as the string of TSBs that go from changing converters to changing transmissions and now is appears to have found the solution with a new Mobil 1 fluid. The owners with the new fluids are reporting good results.”
Self reported incidents on forums and boards are showing the new fluid is already failing to permanently fix the issue. Which is exactly why the class action is moving forward, more people are stepping out of the woodwork, and this article even has merit to be written after the fact.
“To this point mine shifts great”
You had your transmission replaced already, by GM, for shifting issues. On a darn near new vehicle no less.
“Still why are only a smaller number being effected vs most not being effected?”
Because most of these cars and trucks are:
>New with lowish miles
>Babied by their owners and haven’t had issues *yet*
>Have issues but the owners can’t recognize them
>A significant amount of owners DO have problems but aren’t posting online about it
Not to mention the fact that according to NHTSA and Carcomplaints.com, the 2018 Colorado has the MOST SELF REPORTED ISSUES OF ANY MODEL YEAR OF COLORADOS FOR ANY ONE SINGLE ISSUE. That means a 2018 truck, a NEW truck, has more issues than trucks from 2004 for one single issue.
Imagine how many people will be reporting this issue in 5 years, 10 years… We might see darn near every truck that’s been produced with this transmission break down at some point. GM’s customer service is lackluster and their newest and greatest fluid fix hasn’t completely solved anything, according to actual owners of the vehicles.
I always loved GM products, but this, THIS is a mess.
Proof?
What vehicle do you own?
What law firm are you with?
scott3,
I wouldn’t go around asking for proof.
Like proof that most of the fanboys and GM excuse makers on this site work for GM and even a larger group in the HORRIBLE LACK OF CUSTOMER SERVICE !!!
Excuses and the blame game must be what GM trains them to be good at, because if it were CUSTOMER SERVICE , like YOU received from GM, then ALL the CUSTOMERS would be as HAPPY as YOU !!
I am to a GM fanboy, lifelong.
However being a fanboy has NOTHING to do with making an excuse for a KNOWN FAULTY PART !!
A true fanboy calls a spade a spade and points out why they still own a GM product.
And its getting harder and harder to do each day !!
You can preach your #1, #2, #3 lies all you want, because you are about as much help as the GM customer support reps, and the very attorneys you dislike.
Meanwhile the REAL people who STILL have transmission troubles, and were not helped LIKE YOU, have to continue to voice their concerns.
Continue on, as I will.
You know they can treat what is wrong with you now. You only have to ask for help.
It is no longer painful.
And once again when scott3 has ZERO useful input.
And once again scott3 turns to personal attacks.
You should know by now I simply don’t go there.
That question earlier was to you also.
You say its a small quantity having troubles, right ?
You said by having yours replaced it is great now, right ?
You said that the 8 speed is already EPA approved in the vehicle in question, right ?
So what is the holdup ?
Instead of personal attacks, start eliminating the troubled ones !
Get moving, what is the holdup ?
With more and more GM customers buying the 10 speed, this should free up thousands of the good 8 speed majority, right ?
Continue on.
are you gay buddy?
Who cares, we’re talking trannies here.
Hey Scott3 you are one stupid moron, go away.
Hi Scott3,
I have a 2015 GMC Yukon Denali with 59k miles on it. It is in pristine condition, and has been driven very responsibly. I have had it in the shop more times than I can count, with all GMC’s TSP’s service performed. Today, I brought it in, after providing them with a video of it “failing to engage”. When I start it, and put in into ANY gear, it does not move, at all. For a 4 year old vehicle, driven responsibly and still in like new condition, for the price paid for, this is simply unacceptable. Fortunately, the service manager called me an hour ago, and GMC is putting in a new transmission. As a mother of 4, I cannot afford any more “band aids” and unreliability of this vehicle. It’s a shame they haven’t been able to truly fix the issue.
Almost bought one. Ordered it and then I found and read some of GM’s internal memos. Asked GM if they could put the new fluid on my build and they said no. Only if it started to fail. Dealer was nice enough to give me back my deposit. Bought an old school Nissan Pro 4 X and love it.
Not Perfect but it works. Still can clunk at times
I disagree with your analysis that GM has “Fixed” this problem. I purchased a 6th Gen Camaro from a dealership, that did not seem to have any problems during the short test drive. Unfortunately, after purchase, drove the vehicle home. After the engine and trans warmed up(about 20 min), the car violently shook and shuddered, especially when changing from V-6 to V-4 mode. The vehicle has been brought to another dealership close to me 4 different times in the last 3 months. They first tried the fluid exchange which curred about 95% of the problem, but still has a subtle shudder intermittently. Last appointment, dealership told me that they spoke with GM, that they are aware of the problem, BUT, do not fix at this time. Since car has another year left on warranty, I am trading it in and going with a vehicle that has better dependability and better Customer Relationships with their prospective buyers. Being a GM buyer all my life, I am sorry to say that this whole experience has left me to change loyalties and will not buy another GM product. GM has failed in this issue and according to your response that this issue is not as widely known as people think, from what I have read in blogs and forums, that is an incorrect statement, and this situation is more problematic than you think.
IMO, AFM (cylinder deactivation) is a bad idea from GM. More success on their V8 applications but a terrible one on the V6. Take that and their inability to map a transmission and you got crap. Your best bet is the one you have already considered (dump it). But if you want to keep it get the trifecta tune which will re map it back to sanity and can also deactivate AFM. That should take care of everything except shuddering which is more the fluid fix. Basically GM’s 8 speed is a poor job copying ZF’s 8 speed (German) which has none of these issues. IMO, one of the reasons GM is moving towards all electric is because they no longer have a clue in how to make an in house transmission. Electric is direct drive which avoids the issue. Meanwhile, they are now going to stop building their 6 speed which was the last good one they had and will double down even more on the 8. GM is one of my least favorite brands.
If it wasn’t so expensive I’d recommend getting rid of AFM/DOD altogether. Do a cam, lifter and related components swap and never have to deal with the problems associated with that nonsense. You will get an engine that will last longer and with a trans tune a transmission that will last longer too. Other than the torque converter the trans itself is a solid unit, unfortunately GM doesn’t know how to tune it or intentionally tunes it to fail so they can collect $$$$ when you bring it into the stealership for an overhaul.
The latest fluid fix isn’t a fix at all. It’s barely a bandaid. This will cost GM for years to come to rectify it.
Well sadly this is the first time I have read about the 8 speed. My ATS-V has the 8 speed, it does have quirk changing gears sometimes it had a kind of a rough feel. The thing that mystifies me is that how come my 2016 ATS-V never has any computer updates. My BMW always had at least 3 a year. That alone worries me. Gosh the more I read the more I would like to sell my car and run. Let me be clear my car has not given me any trouble yet (knock wood) but you have me worried here. As it ages anything is possible. Any thoughts from other ATS-V owners?
Go to forums that cover all the vehicles with the A8 and it is front and center for quite some time. The class action lawsuit hopefully will move GM to rectify the situation.
The class action is only going to make a law group rich and get you a discount on an oil change. Watch and see.
The truck form GM has been buying back trucks with little issue. If you are having an issue go for the lemon law and not feed some greedy law firm that really has no care for you.
Says the man who had his transmission fixed by GM.
If all these people were treated as good as you were there would not be a need for the lemon law or a law suit !!!
You see scott3, ALL these people are TRYING TO GET GM TO DO SOMETHING FOR THEM !!!!!!
Just like GM did for YOU !!!!
The most one could hope for on that is a extended warranty or worse yet a sliding scale for repairs with deductibles over time.
Maybe your Precision German Engineered Ultimate Driving Machine NEEDED three software updates per year.
Also ATS-V owners or others who may want to give an opinion. How do you feel about the ATS-V engine?
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lf4/
I’ve had no trouble with the engine and drive it pretty hard, but the trans is a POS.
Jonathan Lopez, thanks for taking the time to write this article. I appreciate it.
I will start my response with this:
Have you ever work in automotive manufacturing? I could be incorrect, however, I am guessing that you have not.
Simply switching a vehicle to a new transmission is a multifaceted process. Honestly, the process has too many branches to even begin to discuss it here in this forum.
But we can touch on component manufacturing since it is maybe one of the simplest to touch on and the one that initially jumps into my mind. Let us imagine that GM has planned to build the 8L transmissions for a particular number of years. That number usually has a curve that increases each year, and then decreases as the model is phased out.
Let’s take an input shaft as an example. Machines were either purchased or retooled to manufacturing this input shaft. Workers were hired, floor space was allocated, tooling purchased, etc. Let’s say that GM plans to produce 250,000 10L transmissions per year. That number might top out at 750,000 units annually in a few years. The equipment has been planned far in advice and cannot simply be increased at a moments notice. Many times, more equipment must be purchased (Lathes, Spline Rolling, Deburing, Gun Drill, Heat Treat, Material Handling, etc), more workers hired, more floor space allocation, etc. This process is typically measured in years, not months.
I don’t disagree that GM has an issue with the 8L trans. My issue is that we cannot lead the general public to believe that GM (or any automotive manufacturing) has the ablity to swap a vehicle platform, or even one model to a different transmission if it is not planned for.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure GM has known about the issues with the 8L for some time now, but fact of the matter is, their design teams are likely already working on the next tranmission designs and their manufacturing teams are likely working with vendors to quote new equipment for the next line of transmissions.
But this has been the GM deal.
Make something, that something has troubles, move on to the next something leaving the CUSTOMER to pay.
Now I have been in the transportation component manufacturing industry.
With GM the trouble is it simply takes to , way to, long to even ADMIT they have a problem.
And GM had time to try to dampen the torque converter as a bandaid !!
Or was it that that they STILL did not admit the transmission is junk !!
Some here have had their transmissions replaced and all is good, others here have had zero issues, SO if there are good ones out there and GM is truly trying, ship new ones to the dealers and begin the process of elimination.
Just swap the bad ones out until you get a good one, DONE, FIXED !!!
Again this is a MONEY STALL , game, and GM is an expert at playing the game.
When you call a GM customer service rep, they send you back to the dealer and have ZERO interest in what you have to report.
Even closing a case when you are not satisfied.
If the customer calls in with a problem THERE IS A PROBLEM.
People aren’t sitting around with nothing to do so they say, hey lets call GM customer service and see what they have to say today.
GM had issues reported to them on this transmission from the start, and in typical GM fashion, blamed, stalled, excused, and now ” how many” years later it is at the forefront !!!
GM had time to move on this, qualify more for the 10 speed if that’s what it needed to do .
Move production of some of the 8 speed parts to production of the 10 speed parts.
Now I relies that all GM customers are not experts on vehicles, but when you call GM and report a problem ( AFTER THE DEALER CAN NOT HELP YOU ) there IS a PROBLEM.
Most average people are not making up troubles, most average people have enough to think about.
The database on reporting this problem has to be HUGE !!!
GM has known about this issue since it came out. Problems started almost immediately. Also, when they started to use it in the Colorado in 2017 they were already having issues with it on the Cadillac, Camaro, and Corvette and had not found a solution. Still, they dropped it into the Colorado. The new fluid fix has not always worked. GM has still not found a permanent fix and its almost 5 years now. The odd shift behaviors of the active learning trans is garbage. This trans will always be weak when compared to the co-developed Ford-GM 10 speed. I think the main point here is to warn new buyers to stay away from anything with this transmission.
Thanks for the explanation. Very informative.
Regardless of the fact that a 10 speed transmission should have an overall better performance, I can’t help but wonder how much an overhaul could cost..$$$$$????? Also, since more parts = higher probability to break, how often will I have to do an overhaul?
I just spoke to my Service writer at Reliable Cadillac GMC in Roseville Ca. (They do a great job BTW) He said I can bring it in and they will put it on the computer. He had had many trucks come in with this issue but no ATS or ATS-V, but he qualified that there are not many out there. Sad. So when I go in for service I will. Mine is a very small jutter when I let off the gas going fast then putting some pressure back on the pedal. I feel that jutter. Very light though. But… I am going to check it out. Pisses me off. Last GM for me.
That Jutter is your torque convertor slowing dying dude.
The 10 speed transmission is so new, I don’t know if we should be rejoicing just yet that GM is now implementing it new vehicles. Clearly GM has a poor track record as evidenced by the problems with the current 8 speed transmission.
The 10-speed is new, but it has not exhibited any of the issues of the 8-speed before it. So there is that.
I suppose the next question is how long did it take the 8 speed to start exhibiting problems?
Yeah. From what I recall, it was right away.
The GM version has been clean but Ford has been having some issues with their version.
As a owner of a 2018 canyon SLT I have had not one issue at all, and I drive 50,000 miles a year.
The New RAM HD is still using a Six Speed Tranny, and that’s certainly not slowing down sales at the dealership based on what it offers and what it’s capabilities amount to, most people today still own vehicles new or used and has either a 6 or 8 Speed Transmission and still transports them from Point A to Point B daily with no complaints of wanting to have anything greater on that scale, at the end of the day, if you can afford a vehicle with a 10 Speed, good for you..go celebrate the moment, in the real world, most of us aren’t losing any sleep over the fact that we don’t have one under the hood of what we currently own.
The whole situation is sad. I remember when GM transmissions were bulletproof. The Turbo 350, Turbo 400 and for something with overdrive the 4l80e was indestructible. I think another issue getting the 10 speeds in everything is the 10 speed is a Ford transmission. The new 9 speed was GM’s but the 10 speed was Ford’s baby. Chevy was able to get them first for their #1 product (race cars) Camaro/Corvette but Ford took them first for their #1 product, trucks. And there’s only so many in production right now to go around.
I still don’t like the idea of a Ford transmission in my Chevy. Co-developed is how they like to market it. It still originated with Ford. What happened to GM transmissions? For RWD applications, they were always the best. Many companies sourced the TH400 for years from GM for their cars.
At 180K my 6l80E is sweet. GM really screwed up here. Just the fact that we’re talking about itmeans they really screwed up.
This whole deal, chasing a slight mpg gain, with more gears, is an inevitable failure. Seven speeds is enough. Direct in fifth, with two overdrives.
I completely agree with 7 gears being enough. I saw that the 10 speed has little to no improvement over the 8 speed in mpg. Its way too much complexity that the consumer doesnt need. It’s all just a numbers game now. I say a really low 1st gear, 2-5 set up like an old, close ratio 4 speed and then 2 overdrives. That would be great for a truck.
The real hindsight move would have been to do what FCA did, just went out and bought a good trans from ZF instead of reinventing the wheel like GM did with their transmissions. Clearly, these modern transmissions are too complicated for a “General” car company trying to do everything themselves, better off leaving this to the experts.
Actually the 6 speed is based of the ZF 6 speed.
This is so DISAPPOINTING GM engineers need to graduate elementary before being allowed to work there no one out there can convince me that they shouldn’t have gotten this right wtf but I guess it shouldn’t be no surprise since Ford didn’t even take there 9 speed transmission God I wish Gm still had that spirit where they built cars an trucks to last an its wasn’t all about profits
I love how customers have the balls to tell the manufacturer how their products are supposed to operate!!!
The arrogant people in this world. Just because you drive a car does not make you a expert.
This just made up my mind to not get a new Silverado. Until GM corrects this problem I will keep my current Silverado until I see an improvement. Having had 18 GM vehicles, I was a loyal buyer until now. I always had believed in GM dependability and customer service. This transmission issue needs to be corrected. I was just invited to our local Dodge dealer for a test drive. For the first time since 1997 I may buy a new Dodge .
According to Consumer Reports Dodges have much worse reliability than Chevy’s (and Ford’s) and lower customer satisfaction. I would stay away!
As others have said, it sounds so simple to just swap trannys, people do it in their backyard it can’t be that hard right? No. There is enormous amounts of engineering work that have to go into this. Physical space, cooling, control systems, noise, vibration, fuel economy, driveability, there’s TONS of things that have to be analyzed. Then, all of this has to be validated with real world testing. EPA certifications must be passed. Production must be ramped up (HUGE task). And there is cost for all of this, beyond just the money. GM isn’t staffed for all that extra unplanned engineering work so you’re most likely having contract engineering houses doing the work, which means they arn’t as familiar with the products and will most likely make more design errors. Even if the transmission itself is well designed it will not perform well if not properly engineered into the specific application. Then you are ramping up 10-speed production way ahead of schedule, most likely resulting in increased defects. So, it’s not a slam dunk. You get rid of the 8 speed problems and introduce who knows how many other problems while also increasing vehicle prices to pay for all this. Is it worth it? I don’t know that’s for someone at GM that has the numbers on front of them to decide. But it’s not nearly as obvious as it looks.
As some hear have said, I guess some of the 8 speeds are good.
Others hear have said the MAJORITY of them are good.
If you or I will assume you work for GM, GM are saying this is a small quantity, then I was saying just keep replacing the 8 speed with 8 speeds until you get the small quantity out of the system.
Now this should be increasingly easier, because of what you and other GM people have been saying.
If the 10 speed is now starting to ramp up, this should free up a larger amount of the 8 speed , RIGHT ?
That is what you are saying , RIGHT ?
Also the 8 speed is ALREADY EPA ready, RIGHT ?, its in the vehicle already , RIGHT !!!?
So if all you GM reps and Fanboys want to get this problem solved, and you speak the truth about this being a SMALL QUANTITY.
Then REPLACE the SMALL QUANTITY, with the MAJORITY QUANTITY .
Am I missing something or are you talking out of both sides of your mouths STILL.
Money, money, money, money, and NONE of it going to the customer who payed for the FAULTY PART.
At a risk of sounding like an idiot I disagree. The Silverado line has already been approved for the 10 speed in both v8’s so why can’t they retrofit them for previous years. All you need is to reprogram/replace the ECU and BCM. It seems a lot simpler than what is being hashed out here. Just my 2 cents.
6or 7 speeds are enough, unless you want to drive 80 miles per hour down the freeway! the ownly reason for these multi geared transmissions is the wonderful epa and gasmilage requairments. their is an old saying that goes like this: whats good for clean air is bad for performance! the epa tree has fallen on the auto industry once again!
Ron, where I live the speed limit on the interstates is 75 MPH and traffic routinely goes 80+ MPH. You must live east of the Mississippi where the speed limits are much lower. In the west they are much higher and thankfully so.
Actually the newer small turbo engines are cleaner and even more powerful than the bigger engines they are replacing – so maybe this one time that saying won’t hold.
So, after decades of building millions of automatic transmissions, GM no longer knows how to?
Why does it seem that lately the more new/complex the technology is, the worse it works.
I think the real problem is the public feeling that they are never satisfied with how their product performs? And thinking they know how the component is suppose to work.
Brian,
If GM themselves have said this is a small quantity of transmissions.
And the majority of the 8 speeds ” work fine”
And the other 99% of GM products the customers drive, work like people have expected a transmission to work for the last 70 years.
And 99% of all the other auto makes transmissions work like the customer has expected a transmission to work for the last 70 years.
Then the customer DOES know how an automatic transmission is suppose to work !!!
None of that gives you the right to tell the manufacturer how their products operate.
Well it DOES give the customer the right to tell the manufacturer how the customers product operates.
You are correct it does NOT give the customer the right to tell the manufacturer how the manufacturers product was designed to operate.
The manufacturer in this instance HAS told the customer how their product is to operate.
The manufacturer has said this is a small quantity having troubles, that statement alone has now told the customer that the large majority that operate fine is how the product is to operate.
So if the customer owns two of these products and one is junk, YES the customer knows which one is operating fine and which one is NOT.
It’s a shame. The 6-speeds are so darn smooth and reliable and Chevy has. or had such a good reputation in this area. I don’t know why going to a more complicated tranny – a 10 speed – would be a fix though. I imagine they need to figure out what’s going with the 8 before moving to the ten.
2016 Silverado 112,000mi 4 reprograms… 4 fluid changes started at 16,000 about every 18-20,000 clunking,shutter ,and rpm dancing vibration (like a pulse) 3 times FM 1 time ext. Warranty…now no warranty ..escalated complaint to gm for at least some goodwill
Got told have a nice day… I figured it out for the idiots the fluid goes bad and effects torque converter pressure and solenoids start sticking .. about over 18 to 20000 miles july 8 2019 a new program needed and fluid again..54,0000.00 multiple same issueif you drive it like a daily driver called dealership bought 4 since 07 …SO TEST DROVE 2019 LTZ SILVERADO 6.2L 10SPEED ….ITS REAL SPONGY …unless balls to wall 0-40mph to next stop light…This will be worse….They cant as of yet fix 8 speeds …complicate by adding 2 more….been up for 3 days….
Nissan titan xd platinum reserve built so much better it has a 100,000mi bumper to bumper warranty …4,000.00 less and cant find were there being sued for there trucks….my company fleet has been nissan v8’s 94,000mi no issues normal maintenance…
Chevy lost my confidence my support and my recommendations and my money…
Of course this will go on dead ears but buyer beware..ford,chevy,and dodge…all are behind on quality…Nissan
For the midsized, Frontier V6 drivetrain beats the new Taco. If Nissan would have restyled/upgraded interior, cab, etc they’d be pulling ahead. Lifelong Chevy guy here but Colorado dropped off my radar with the 8L45 problems, a shame. GM use to have some of the best trans for decades, many going to 200K mile (4Ls). Heard that cheap aluminum and plastic valves/solenoids the problem. Any shop that could offer a rebuild upgrade with remanufactered parts might be the solution. Otherwise, I think GM will ride out the drivetrain warranty.
my 2017 6.2 ltr 8 speed has all the shifting problems you people are listing. dealer changed the fluid and it worked good for a few month. now it is doing the same thing again and the dealer told me it is learning. now i get a letter that the vac assist on the brake system has issues but they will not fix it until it won’t work ? it is a silverado. no help from dealers or chevy.
CVT transmission is very weak for hauling and towing capacities it’s the worst thing you can do on a truck you have to have a torque converter in order to have heavy duty truck towing capacity. Not sure what you’re talking about with the new Cadillac because that is a transversely mounted front wheel drive with engine mounted all the way forward it’s a piece of junk compared to the new Lincoln Aviator.
Sorry ….New Lincoln Aviator not good at all……trust me don’t buy one. All I can say is that you need to get rid of the Lincoln before the warranty is up if not sooner.
Why is GM still working on gear shifting transmissions when they have a CVT that works with high powered engines? Just look at the specs for the PHEV Cadillac CT6!
I have a 2019 Silverado and i wish I wouldn’t have paid my hard earned money buying this trash. It jerks violently accelerating and coming to a stop. It has 6,315 miles on it. Ive taken it to the dealership only to be told its normal. Its embarrassing leaving a store in a brand new truck that shifts so hard, it feels like another car has rear ended me.
Check and be sure that they know about the Factory Bulletin. It took me 4 visits to get them to get right.
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=11127 This is it. So show it to them and make sure they do it. My Dealer didn’t know anything about it. I had to show them. Big joke but it’s all good now. Good luck
Is there a factory bulletin? how do i get to it?
My 18 Sierra Denali has 55K miles on it and the trans has been perfect. Zero issues. As per warranty requirements it’s getting a trans and transfer case service this afternoon. EXPENSIVE….as GM is the sole supplier of the HD trans fluid required and they are charging something like C$45/litre for it. No options if I want to maintain my warranty though.
I bet there are way more GM owners of 8 speed transmissions that work just fine compared to the people who have problems with them. The people who have problems with them scream the loudest.
I had a higher up gm guy near production tell me that 20% are defective that’s unheard of failure rate
Since the proper transmission fluid was put in it has been perfect.
Everything Ford/Gm built is still modified ZF designs after the 5speed. Wiki them.
I can believe people are still drinking the Gm kool aide. Gm has been putting out junk with there burning oil engines and there 8 speed transmissions. Gm Just doesn’t give a shi**. They should change there advertising from like a rock to what a piece of sh**t. So many people have been burned by Gm.
And there are millions of people that have had decades of worry free driving. Just like myself!!! I cant believe people like you expect a automotive company to be perfect, hell any company for that matter.
So just because a few of you who have had problems scream the loudest doesn’t mean that is the norm.
My 4.8 L engine and 6-speed is picture perfect at 165K and I expect it to remain that way for a considerable period of time.
I have a 2019 Silverado rst 5.3 8 speed 5000 miles. The transmission is smooth as butter and makes shifts so quick and refined they are hardly noticeable. This truck was built feb 2019, rather early in the new production run for the new body style. I have no complaints so far and I hope I don’t have any as this transmission ages. I think there are many good ones out there and I hope for everyone’s sake I am in the majority of owners that are very happy with this transmission.
How do you get to it ….
NO thanks ill chill smoke my self stopped then call me when u done f*^” that s”¤☆☆ ¿♡♧♤€ get that not u me your onld ladys side pice o and thanks for that lunch she got me bro good looking out
Haha got u didnt i see all in the fillings zone now right chill hers a blunt sit down smoke one and dam creeper bro
Is this transmission in the 2020 Express van with the 4.3? If it is then i guess i will pass on buying one.
The 4.3L has the 8-speed tranny. The 6.0L engine, on the other hand, comes with the 6-speed which has had superb reliability.
https://www.chevrolet.com/commercial/express/cargo/build-and-price/trim
It doesn’t appear from this article that the “improved” 8-spd is found in vans but you would have to check.
” Following a litany of complaints, GM tried to “improve” the 8-speed in the 2019 Silverado and 2019 Sierra. In a press release, the automaker said it made “enhancements designed to improve shift quality, while also adding a new centrifugal pendulum absorber torque converter” to improve smoothness. The new revised transmission was assigned RPO code MQE, replacing the M5U 8-speed unit on the half-ton Silverado and Sierra, but not (yet) on other GM products like full-size SUVs or mid-size pickups.”
Yeah I just wanted the V6 because of being more fuel efficient with the 8 speed but if the transmission is junk I guess – dare I say it – I will have to look at the Ford Transit – lol.
In the end people just love to complain! And they love complaining loud enough so people can hear them. They want other people to live in the misery!
There are far more 8 speed transmissions the work seamlessly as apposed to the ones you hear about on this site.
The 2021 model will feature a stronger, more efficient 6.6L engine. I wonder if the efficiency of the 6.6L will be near the V6?
The tranny used in that van has not been determined, though.
The V6 will get the M5U tranny which has had problems which may or may not be resolved. I haven’t been able to find complaints yet on it.
The 2.4L diesel will get the best MPG of all and will come with the improved MQD 8-speed tranny
I believe I read somewhere that the 6.6 was still going to use the 6 speed.
I paid a ton of $ on my 2019 sierra. The transmission is terrible. I am completely disappointed with my experience with dealer service department. I will fight to get it right. I love the truck but only if it is corrected. They said gm says it is normal. I have never had a truck shift this badly.
Have you had them flush the system and replaced with the new fluid? I’ve heard that takes care of a lot of shifting problems.
4 Years after the tranny was introduced GM was still having problems. Does that mean I have to wait at least 5 years after a model introduction for GM to fix the problems on its trucks?
Good luck! The tranny is so vital to a good driving experience.
If they fix it at all. GM still thinks “it’s normal” so I doubt they will do much unless a lot of people complain, file a lawsuit (currently there is one) or stop buying their trucks.
It’s a shame – the 6 speed is an absolute gem.
I just dropped off my 2018 Colorado at the dealers this morning. They are going to connect a computer to it that interfaces with the GM Tech line, drive my truck, then the Tech line can see why the torque converter keeps unlocking /relocking from 1100 rpm to 1400 rpm. Have them do the same with yours. Good luck.
I have a 2020 RST 6.2L 10 speed.It has been in the shop for almost 8 weeks with no eta for a fix.Made it not even 800 miles.GM states the valve body is defective,and will not authorize a replacement.Only a newly redesigned one.Beware the 8 speed issue,is also a 10 speed issue.As soon as it threw a diagnostic light,i felt exactly what everyones complaining about.So glad i spent 55,60k on a non functional paperweight.Do yourselves a favor,contact the BBB Auto line Program as complaining to Chevy Corporate got me nowhere.
Under most lemon laws, they have four tries, or 30 days to fix a defect, or they eat it. The only exception is commercial purchases. If you are a private owner, start lemon law procedings.
Yes i know.But the process is a little drawn out.Im working on it with BBB.GM refused a buyback initially.Now i get to go rent a car out of my own pocket since i have a death in the family.The sweet base model blazer they loaned can not be used for long distance.ALSO they only reimburse 35$ a day for rental(i have to pay up front)That covers a Hyundai and i still have to pay the taxs and fees.Im really just over this whole situation.
That is so weird. If they have to redesign it that would seem to mean they are all bad which I don’t understand. How do they say they will resolve this situation? You deservè your money back or a new car.
I was at the dealership the other day. Turbocharger failed on a big truck. Somewhere around 5k repair. Luckily he had extended the warranty.
If you check around the internet you’ll see the same problems with the Ford 10 spd which GM and Ford built.
They did not offer a “fix”.Stated the valve body has to be redesigned/engineered.There is nothing for them to sweeten the deal at this point.I have a 6 year extended,Sirius for life,4k rims and tires package,running boards,washes and oil changes included already.My RST 6.2 is 4 options short of a High Country.Its basically what the Trailboss wishes it was with better aesthetics.Honestly i just want my truck running and functional.I worked for 13 years to buy the exact truck i wanted,they need to make it right.
Very disheartening. Sorry you had to go through this. Is GM just saying live with it? Is that their answer? They’ve done that with the bad shifting and clunky transmission – they say it’s normal…(lol)
I was planning on getting a 4.3 van with 8 speed and now I don’t know what to get. Everybody says Ford is crap so what is a person to do??
It has been a couple of years since the problem cropped up and they have worked on it. I would hope that it’s been fixed by now. Always dangerous to buy a new model or model in which major changes have been made.
Very disheartening. Sorry you had to go through this. Is GM just saying live with it? Is that their answer? They’ve done that with the bad shifting and clunky transmission – they say it’s normal…(lol)
Ironically the 10-spd is actually a Ford designed transmission. GM and FM worked together to build the next generation of transmission. GM’s 10spd is built by GM but was mostly designed by Ford.
Amazing how this always raises it’s ugly head every now and then. As I have stated earlier in this thread they changed the ATM fluid to a different one it works well enough for me but your correct the transmission has some built in bad qualities. It if a very poor down snifter but the jutter is gone. Now that is on a 2016 $73 K ATS-V I feel your pain folks.
Update:2 months to the day i got my truck back.Noticed the outside temp sensor display on the infotainment screen has been stuck at 93° even though it is 116° outside….
🥴
hi so should i buy a 2017 yukon denaili with 6.2 & 8 spd trans…OR get a 2018 or 2019 with 10 spd..? thanks ken
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Does the Chevy express have this 8 speed with the v6? Not sure if the v6 has the crap to turn of the cylinders?
Kenny, by now the Express should have the new 8 sp (MQE) that replaced the M5U. Express uses the 4.3 LV1 without DOD. Trucks use 4.3 LV3 that has DOD.
My 2021 Silverado is at the dealership now for 8 speed problems. I expect to have a valve train failure before long. Will GM ever hire competent engineers again?
It’s not necessarily the engineers. Unfortunately it’s the bean counters that have the final say and since they don’t know jack about engineering things go horribly wrong. Add to that GM’s crappy warranty and the fact they don’t honor it makes it even worse.
Hmm. Not good to hear there are still issues on a 2021. The so called “final fix” was supposed to be the special transmission fluid in 2019. To make matters worse GM has said they want to quit making their 6 speed which used to be their last good transmission that used to go into the Silverado. Now they appear to be doubling down on the 8 speed. Again. Meaning it will start going into the full size trucks along with the 2.7 turbo. Many were hoping the upcoming next generation Colorado was going to have the 10 speed. Now I’m having my doubts and they will once again and they may use the 8 in that as well along with the 2.7 turbo. I don’t know if the 8 speed is an engineering problem or if its just a bad design with multiple manufacturing defects. I expect allot of the issues is the horrible mapping/software. Also the AFM (cylinder deactivation) is just a BAD idea for a 6 cylinder. It ain’t a good idea on the v8 either. It was a bad idea in the 70’s when they first deployed it and its no better now. About the only GM truck I would consider would be the silverado with the inline 6 diesel and 10 speed or the very rare colorado with the Asian built 2.8 duramax with the 6 speed. Both are pretty straightforward power trains without the garbage mapping/software because diesel will get you the MPG’s without resorting to gimmicks. Ford went a better route using smaller displacement motors (eco) without resorting to gimmicks like AFM and screwy software.
My 2019 canyon 8 spd. works like a charm since the oil was changed I am impressed such a complex unit can work so well. It does have a poor 2-3 shift any time its parked and you use it again, once only ,I can live with that! I do have a major beef with a steering pull to the left. Wheel alignment has not cured it. I have re adjusted the frt end at my own expense ,meaning skewed settings to make it more pleasant to drive.Not happy
My 2018 Sierra Denali has had zero transmission problems in 130 K kilometers.
I have a 2019 Silverado rst 5.3 8 speed with 30,000 miles on it and so far I have had zero transmission issues. The shifts are as smooth as butter and I think when this transmission works as it is designed, it is a real gem…….Maybe I just got a good one.
Anyone know the difference between M5U and MQE? Is it just the torque converter?
I just bought a 2020 chevy Silverado with the 2.7l truck and it has the 8speed, it’s been back at dealer twice now due to transmission. I does all of what I hearing and also feels like torque converter is locking up in first four feet of moving truck, then let’s go slips then goes in to gear and does it again shifting first to second. Very disappointed