The time for talk is nearly over. While most of Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen’s time thus far has been spent curbing poor protocols and procedures at the brand, new vehicles will be the ultimate test.
de Nysschen sat down with The New York Times to discuss his optimism surrounding Cadillac and why the real test starts in 2018. As mentioned, 2018 will usher in the first product under de Nysschen: the Cadillac XT4. The smaller crossover will slot below the Cadillac XT5 and likely ride on General Motors’ E2 platform, which has since been reserved for sedans.
Notably, de Nysschen said all future Cadillac will be “drivers’ cars” and the report states the XT4 will indeed be the first product to usher in Cadillac’s new design language—first previewed with the Cadillac Escala concept. The XT4 will be “curvaceous” and “sculpted” and ditch some of the more angular design traits found with current Cadillacs. The beltline will be lower and the wheels will be pushed closer to the corners of the vehicle for a wider stance.
The Cadillac chief said the design change reflects a changing luxury consumer dynamic, where the cars don’t necessarily have to scream the driver’s success. Instead, de Nysschen said more subtle expressions of luxury are favorable with younger buyers. The new design may also be influenced by the brand’s success in China as well.
The XT4 will be the first of five new vehicles to launch over the coming two years. One of the future Cadillacs will reportedly be a flagship vehicle, as promised by de Nysschen himself.
Comments
“…the wheels will be pushed closer to the corners of the vehicle for a wider stance”
That’ll be awfully hard to do with FWD vehicles.
Escala looks like a copy and paste job. Make Mark Adams lead designer now.
My curiosity has certainly been peaked! Like several others on this site, I too have been skeptical regarding the direction of Cadillac. But in light of this news, I’m very much open to what Cadillac’s current management has in store for the brand! At this point, it’s all about execution!
Without discounts and incentives?
Booming China market (that’s 80 or 90% less profitable than GMNA)?
And NA’s sales are negative for ’17?
The NYT reporter threw a lot of softballs, and seemed to not be terribly well-versed.
Congrats, I guess, to Cadillac PR to arrange for a NYT feature that seemed to ask no hard questions
I hope the new design and upcoming cars and SUVs attract a lot of new buyers, because he sure is,losing the current customers. Urban/NY chic obviously isn’t playing well for traditional buyers, who are dropping out in droves. I’d love to see statistics on current buyers.
The move to New York has noting to do with urban chic/NY. It just gives them room to breathe away from GM in Detroit. If you were to even spend a month at GM HQ proper, you’d understand why that’s important for something like Cadillac. There is a lot of group think and overbearing control from “GM proper” in Detroit that Cadillac simply does not need in its current stage.
So the move to New York is about the mindset and freedom to do what Cadillac needs to do. It is a good thing in every way, both in the short and long term.
I should also state that we have not yet seen a single product that would have been the result of Cadillac based in NYC… wth the exception of the escala concept. So let’s give them a chance. The fact that they’re losing sales on old product is understandable. So is the fact that the brand is still weak and tarnished compared to the competition. Again, this stuff takes time, guts, and patience.
Yes, traditional Cadillac buyers are “dropping out in droves”.
My guess is that they’re not dropping into brands like Merc and BMW, instead they’re dropping into brands like C.J. Boots Casket Co, New England Casket Co, or Schieuer Woodworks.
Customers are simply wanting vehicles that are apart of the hottest segment vehicles around.. CUVs.. evidenced very much so by the fact that the XT5 is currently outselling several Benz CUVs combined. Cadillac currently is a CAR brand. They will have new CUVs avail very soon. Sales should increase as long as these products are executed properly
There are better options out there like the Genesis line.
Oh yeah? What is exactly “better” about “the Genesis line”?
They have decent platforms, decent engines with mediocre fuel economy and power delivery, decent if not very underwhelming styling, decent technology… and fair amounts of luxury. Nothing about either one of the brand’s two current offerings is stand-out, exceptional or “better”, perhaps with the exception of the price… that is cheaper, yes.
And before you ask, yes – I have driven both of the Genesis sedans.
Having been in both Genesis sedans, I was not impressed. The car has plenty of gadgets but the design both interior and exterior isn’t very inspiring. The choice of interior materials is definitely below what you would find in an equivalent Lexus. So bland with nothing being unique to the brand.
I think Genesis offers good styling and good interiors from what I’ve seen. But look at the weight of their platforms, the specific output of their engines, and the tech they have available. Hyundai is behind Caddy/GM in the hard engineering areas.
But since Genesis snitched that designer from Aston Martin I think, I’ll admin their cars look pretty good.
was this even serious? I have driven the G90.. and got out of the car, into my Impala LTZ, and felt very satisfied that the Chevy was a better car overall.. It damn sure had nothing on my CTS-V in any way shape or form.
What this article leves out is the part where even a dealer has said “I’m not sure the move to NYC has done anything for the brand” and to be honest… it hasn’t.
Personally I do not like JDN, his stuck-up attitude and company management is awful, but… I will give him a chance. I know he had very little to do with the XT5, but he decided to keep the traditional soft ride while adding sporty touches (steering, pedal feel). I love that car because it feels like a sports car (to an extent) from the drivers seat, but it feels like a old school luxo-barge from the passenger seat.
I always was (and still am) a big advocate for Cadillac to continue building comfortable riding, ultra luxury cruisers, instead of their current harsh riding, sporty sedans, but this car, is a really good example of both working together.
After reading up on what JDN did during his time at Audi, and seeing those “Audi” touches in Cadillac, I have to say, most of them are actually pretty cool, and I now believe that it is mainly the marketing department who is F%$king Caddy up the a$$.
Obviously, Caddy will continue to be a “drivers” brand , but here’s another idea, what if they build all cars as comfort ultra lux cruisers, but have a V version of every model with a completely different suspension, tires, ride height, seats, engine Ect. While you may not be able to have a sporty FWD car, or a comfortable RWD car, you can do a hell of a lot with AWD.
EX. lets say they build the CT5 with current CTS sizing, they build one body, that can accommodate an XTS chassis, or a CT6 chassis. the XTS version is much like the current XTS while the CT6 version is more like the CTS-V. Both versions would have a different AWD system, engine, trans, wheels and seats, but retain the same body style, and size to please everyone.
Henry wrote: “Obviously, Caddy will continue to be a “drivers” brand , but here’s another idea, what if they build all cars as comfort ultra lux cruisers, but have a V version of every model with a completely different suspension, tires, ride height, seats, engine..”
Henry, would you please stop thinking out-of-the-box? You’ve done this before, thinking creatively about an ATS replacement that would have only two comfortable seats, instead of four cramped ones. There’s no room for that here. What the heck are you thinking?
The proper thinking is to imitate BMW in every way. The problem with that in the past was the Cadillac retained its own styling, but no more of that under JDN. Just like BMW – every car should be a “driver’s car”; i.e. hard, cramped, and “feel the road” uncomfortable – but great “handling” on sharp turns at 90MPH. Every car should be RWD. Every car should have that bloated/rounded Euro-look. Every car should have complex (and unreliable) gearing. And of course, every car must be a copy of an existing BMW, spec for spec. No “improper” tweeners or out-of-class vehicles of any kind. This is very important.
So forget the old Cadillac that was America’s #1 luxury ride for decades. Forget the leadership and the creativity. Forget the 1st Class ride. This is new Cadillac, number 5 and falling. But by golly they’ll make cars that the 15% of self-proclaimed “drivers” such as JDN love.
Essentially JDN wears a bracelet that reads “WWBMWD” or “What would BMW do?” and he follows that. Although by the time BMW shifts to roomy comfortable cars, Cadillac will still be a generation behind them. Ironic, isn’t it? Cadillac once a proud and successful leader, is now perhaps the biggest follower in the industry. So stop with the creative thinking, that’s not wanted at Cadillac.
The NY Times’ Article is so full of misinformation (CT6 replaced the CTS? Huh?) that wait and see is still the current action to take.
Yeah, the reporter is clueless… or made a mistake.
Journalist Luft: perhaps we should have an inverse law of proportionality regarding above-the-line professional reporting and below-the-line amateur commenting by overconfident guessers like myself.
Professionals = dumb know-nothings because they think they can use actual research to ‘inform’ people.
Commenters = hyper-intelligent know-it-all’s who think questions and research are for life’s bottom-rungers.
Smart commenting people already know, we were born encyclopedia’s of psychology. Dumb professional research-and-report people tend to believe experts who have wasted their time on actual real work.
There’s a movement in the US to discredit people who deal with facts and reality (scientists, educated and experienced professionals…) by those who base their lives on falsehoods, fiction, superstitions, conspiracies and just plain ignorance. The side who wins will determine if the US remains a first world country or digress into a 3rd world has been.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Lol
It’s been studied. One is the Dunning Kruger Effect, another is Kahneman-Tversky confirmation bias. It’s good science, but as usual, it isn’t loyal to the ‘great leader’ tropes.
Getting a word out of Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen is like pulling teeth and the fact is that he still didn’t say much as everyone knew Cadillac was coming out with the XT4 CUV; what would have been interesting would have been news on the XT7 or when Cadillac may introduce an all-electric vehicle as well as the future of Cadillac V vehicles.
From what I read here in the comments there is a lot of miss information as well the out of touch.
The NYC move was purely to get Cadillac away from modeling GM executives that over the years have hampered Cadillac from being what all it could be. The cheap interiors and shot changes in quality they were not Cadillac ideas but ideas forced in them by the Detroit based GM Brass.
Dealer bitch for the most part as they do not like change and they have faced much of that over the last 30 years. Well they are going to need to face more to make any gains.
As for the decrease in sales many of you look at percentages not true numbers. Cadillac has been at low volumes for a while and a large percentage change may often only be a few hundred cars.
Will JDN succeed? Will he fail? No one here can say as none of us have seen the full plan or products at this point.
I do know we will love some of what we see and will not like some of it because it is not all going to be just to one taste.
One thing for sure they will break new ground as there is no successful past to move back to as the segment has moved on.
The other thing that is for sure one model and one year is not going to fix it all. It will take long term commitment and investment to continue the return to gain customer trust and desire.
The short term attention getters like a sports car or other limited market models are just frosting when the cake still needs to be perfected.
I like the fact they were given the money and autonomy to do what they need to do. They have not had this in decades.
The foolishness to think you can discount your way to a premier image and higher quality product has failed how many times?
Cadillac is making money even at these volumes. The dealers not do much but even if the lost half of them there are still too many of them. That is not a product problem.
5 new models in 2 years should be interesting and if we continue your see global growth they are on the right path.
Cars like this are not supposed to be for everyone. If everyone had one then where is the special image? Porsche nearly killed their image on the 944 at a Camaro price. BMW hurt themselves in America whoring out the cheap 318 models here. They could do it in Europe but here it made them the BMW for those who could not afford better cars.
Audi was the cheap car that built a steady image of better cars with each intro over a number of years and today have a loyal following.
The key to this segment is not about volume it is about making money. You can be third in sales volume but win with the highest profits on the largest ATP.
This is about smart selling not just volume.
What will I rate JDN? Well once we see these first 5 models and the public acceptance I will judge him then. Right now there is nothing to judge yet good or bad. If he pulls it off I will praise and if he fails I will condemn.
“His brand”? When did Cadillac become “his” (JDN’s) brand? Cadillac is an iconic American brand, begun by Henry Ford, built up by Henry Leland, and the product of thousands of proud Americans, as well as the subject of many songs. Cadillac was so good and so successful for so long, that the word Cadillac became synonymous with “the best”. Cadillac became the number one luxury car in the hearts (and sales) of Americans for decades, due to hewing to their values of roomy, comfortable, reliable, refined, well-powered, brashly styled cars with the latest in consumer electronics. They did not become number 1 by imitating anyone, they got there by being a leader.
JDN does not own GM, nor does he own Cadillac. He is not even American and has no concept of what Cadillac means to Americans. All he knows is to copy the Germans in every way, including styling. As if the world needs another German-like brand.
Cadillac could have ruled their segment of reliable, refined, roomy, comfortable luxury, etc. and when the market gets over its German-like fad, they’d be well-positioned to be number one again as the tides shifted back. Instead he’s treating Cadillac like his personal plaything, to make the cars HE likes, which are German car clones. This strategy hasn’t worked for Cadillac for at least 20 years, and – mark my words – it won’t work now. But Johan, Uwe, and Melody will still get the big bucks while they keep telling GM “just give us another 15 years” and after another 15 years Cadillac will be even worse off, if even in existence.
JDN proved that he could helm a German sports-luxury brand (Audi) during a time when German sports-luxury brands were the latest fad. Then he tried to turn Japanese brand Infiniti into a German-like sports brand and got nowhere. Unfortunately Cadillac has taken him from there, to run his same playbook (move the HQ to another city, rename all the cars by some German-sounding system, make the cars all about track times on the Nurburgring Nordschleife, raise prices to keep cars out of “wrong driveways”).
When did 100+ years of American creativity and hard work have to take a back seat and become “Johan’s brand”? Why does this guy have the right to throw away everything that Cadillac built and stands for, to make it just another Euro-clone?
Personally I hate the stodgy rounded/bloated Mercedes Benz look, it reminds me of the old taxis in the US (Yellow, Checker, etc). This is not progress to copy the Germans, spec-for-spec, feature-for-feature, styling-for-styling. But the bottom line is, who decided to hand this brand to Johan, Uwe, and Melody? Three overpromoted bozos without deep American roots, gleefully trashing an American icon. “His” brand? I don’t think so.
Well the Americans running the brand from the late 80s up till the first gen CTS sure didn’t do anything credible for the brand. Save for the updating of the brand’s nomenclature, we have yet to see what JDN’s influence will yield. Your rant is misplaced.
Gary, true that Americans were running Cadillac from the 1980’s until JDN, but it was the attempts to become more German/European that hurt the brand’s reputation most severely. Starting with the 1981 V8-6-4 engine, an attempt to get Euro-like fuel economy, not ready for the market, and hurt the brand’s reputation for reliability. Then in 1982 Cadillac aimed for a Euro-sized car, the widely ridiculed Cimarron – and Cadillac’s reputation took another hit. And in 1997 Cadillac wanted a German-like car in their line-up so badly that they brought in the entirely German Catera, which again hurt their reputation.
Today the revisionist historians will say that Cadillac lost its reputation because people no longer wanted cars with Cadillac’s classic values. But the reality is that it’s only when Cadillac moved away from their values that their reputation suffered. And the idea that young and/or “modern” people don’t want a 1st Class ride is also ridiculous. Ask anyone riding “coach” in an airline if they want a free upgrade to 1st Class or a cushy private jet – everyone will volunteer for the upgrade, they won’t say “No I want to be cramped and experience lots of turbulence”.
During the 1980’s and 1990’s, Lexus actually copied Cadillac’s core values – other than the angular styling – especially the roomy comfortable ride, reliability, and not offering cheap decontented “base” models. Since Cadillac was moving away from its own values, Lincoln and then Lexus took the top spot in US luxury sales, until 2011.
Top spot in US luxury sales breaks down something like this:
Post WWII through 1998: Cadillac
1999: Lincoln
2000-2010: Lexus
2011- today: Mercedes-Benz
it’s worth noting though that MB and Lexus are still neck-and-neck, with MB only ahead by 0.2% market share (16.2% vs 16.0%). Cadillac is all the way back in 5th place (2016) but recent sales figures show it moving to 7th place, when extrapolated from the recent monthly data. Lexus does have a few “sport” models but most of the big sellers are known for their reliability and plush (near the old Cadillac but not quite) ride. It’s further worth noting that when Lexus gave their LS series a harder ride (after 2008) , their sales fell substantially. So much for the thinking that more “Germanization” leads to higher sales, in a brand without a German badge.
It’s also worth noting that Lincoln has had their own problems, including moving their HQ from Detroit to California in 1998, then realizing their mistake and moving it back to Detroit in 2002. Then they’ve at times considered ending it altogether, as well as starving it for cash, until very recently. Lincoln also had their attempt at pursuing the Germans, but they have wisely abandoned that now. They must love the fact that Cadillac has doubled down on the German-wannabe thing under JDN.
I would normally agree with you that it’s too soon to judge JDN. But we already know what he intends to do, he’s totally laid it out. He wants EVERY Cadillac to be a so-called “driver’s car”, which means that none of the top selling Cadillacs of last month – the XTS, XT5, and Escalade – would qualify. He wants to end Cadillac’s angular American styling, in favor of Euro-bland rounding. He wants all Cadillacs to be RWD, I guess it never snows on JDN. He cares nothing about the plush “Cadillac ride”. He seems fine with putting the ATS and CTS on poor-riding run-flat tires, and offering cheap deconted “base” versions of those cars with vinyl seats and halogen headlights. So one could say that my rant is premature, but since JDN has given us his roadmap, it’s clear to see he’s taking Cadillac’s already weak sales off a cliff. With a lot of people strangely cheering him on!
Barra decided that’s who. If Caddy fails she should take full blame and lose her job. Of course if Cadillac succeeds then she deserves full credit. But I agree with a lot of what you say here and in past post. Cadillac is now like a confused stepchild. It has a comical marketing department for one thing. You have Melody Lee who is Asian and Uwe who is German running the marketing department of a historic American car company.
Now if the results were good in terms of sales and marketing then awesome and kudos to them both. However watching the few horrible commercials for Cadillac is stomach turning. The super cruise commercial with the death woman.. What were they thinking? Some awful exotic sounding drum beat and two confused looking actor’s. And 30 seconds later you hardly have an idea what the point of the ad was. And I won’t even get into the XT5 commercial with two mindless acting females sitting inside the car, I cannot even remember what they were talking about thats how irrelevant it was.
Yet when you see a Lincoln, Lexus or Audi commercial, you feel like your looking at an expensive car and feel upper class. Getting back to results. Cadillac is flopping in the US. Sure part of it is because of the products. But a better part is do to Cadillac attempting to change over 70 years of marketing to a millennial generation that have no interest in Cadillac and to Gen X and baby boomers that are now alienated from Cadillac(save for the XTS). And what is with the big secret on letting us know what the flagship is? Sure I know there is a lot that has to be kept secret but why can they not at least just give us a body style. If its not a S-class fighting sedan/coupe, then very few people in the automotive world are going to care and I just don’t see Cadillac ever taking on the big boys. I will still hopefully be able to lease a CT6 next year and if I do it certainly won’t be because I got hooked from a Cadillac commercial. Lol
Don’t tell the youth movement at work buying all the he ATS models. I thing in the last year and a half we have 5 new ATS owners all under 50. Several in their 20’s.
They all love heir cars and plan to remain with Cadillac for their next at this point.
AWD V6 sedans appear to be what they like.
Under 50 is the youth movement? Didn’t realize that.
Drew you need to get some thing corrected here. Henry Ford started the Henry Ford company that failed and Leland was brought in to fix the mess and then turned the compay into Cadillac. Henry was a mechanic but not a car company leader. Edsel was about the only Ford who had but died too young.
Cadillac really came into their own in the twenties and world class in the 30’s.
As time and mass production at GM wore on they slowly cut corners and went for volume over quality.
By the time Cadillac started to down size their cars with Olds scourced corporate engines the luster was gone.
Then even worse was the FWD downsize decree that tossed them in the gutter. A fast restyle failed and after years of struggle they had lost the trust and desire of the customer they once had.
Once that desire and trust was gone they had no image and they had no luster.
GM even while trying to get back their Mojo struggled with a mass turnover of managers trying to give them what they needed but with out the proper funding due to the reality GM was broke. Lutz did a lot with nothing but it was not enough.
They came out of the bail out with money but GM management still tried to discount their way with cars still not up to the level they needed to be. The CT6 was a Mark Ruess car but even he had do many battles that he lost the car is not what he wanted hence not the flag ship. For sure a better car but still short of what it should be.
Then GM management cuts back a few dollars on a door Handle that speaks much. That is the first thing a customer touches so it needs to feel like it belongs on a $90k car not an Impala.
The reason this is a JDN company and vision as Cadillac has had little collective vison for several decades. Well at least not one worth having.
Right now nearly every model was developed under a different manager and it shows. Turn meddled by GM brass to cut cost.
Is JDN’s vision the right one we go not know but if they pull it off one leader will hold the control over each model and it will make them coworkers collectivly for the first time in decades.
They are working to thinfpg like a Cadillac engine in a Cadillac. Not some Silverado engine in a Cadillac. The Chevy based engine is great but it holds no added value to owing a Cadillac. You can charge more but you need to do better than just digging in the parts bin to earn the higher price.
Pontiac died because it was no longer a Pontiac. They lost their heart in 79!with the loss of their good V8 and later lost all their engine but the iron duke.
They had no exclusive models accept the Fiero that also got under funded and short changed.
Some if you here need to realize Cadillac has not been great for many years. You are just kidding yourself if you think they were.
I feel a collective collection of models will help in cloud much of what hurts them. But it is only a start. Compelling design, higher quality, Cadillac exclusive details will help bring back the desire of the customer and then it epsilon take some time to earn the trust of the customer to put their money down.
So at this point the only stamp on their cars will be JDN and their success or failure rides on his shoulders. I will give him credit for taking this ridk in an era few people take responsibility for anything.
IF they fail it is alL on him. They succeed he will become a legend in Cadillac history like Delorean and Knudsen did for Pontiac.
Few people in the auto industry have taken the full risk in recent history like this out side Delorean, Lutz, Cole, Knudsen, Earl, Mitchell and Iacocca.
To be honest it us refreshing to see some one stake it all on themselves for once.
Cadillac for too long has been run by committee and no one stepping up to take the lead.
Scott3, outstanding post. Though technically, Henry Ford did start the company that became Cadillac, even though Henry Leland made it work and gave it the values it once had, particularly liability. And while I agree that the downsizing mandate was disastrous to the image (the Cimarron in particular), I’ll just have to disagree about FWD – that’s something that most Cadillac buyers either embraced or had no problem with at the time. Today some revisionists claim that FWD is “cheap” and RWD is somehow “better” but at the time that’s not how it was viewed. This is a luxury brand we are talking about.
All the rest though – very good. I remember when Pontiac was a strong brand, at least among young Americans. In high school I had a friend who owned an orange GTO Judge – he got it used and it leaked oil badly, but it had a unique cool factor that few if any other cars could match. And when I was in college as an engineering student, many of the older engineering students were lusting over the Trans Am, especially with the bird decal on the hood. By the time I graduated I wasn’t interested in that type of car myself, but there’s no question that Pontiac knew how to create a buzz back then. Eventually though, Pontiac became just another Chevy, with maybe a slight stylistic hint of its muscle car days, really silly at that point to try to put “performance” style cues on a Grand Am, which was essentially a Chevy Malibu (and the Malibu was a very generic car back then, kind of a Camry-wannabe that came up short even there). The Aztek didn’t help things either (sorry Mark Reuss, there’s your one flop).
It would be interesting to see what Mark Reuss would do with Cadillac today, if he were in charge instead of JDN. Reuss is known to have wanted to continue the angular American styling that JDN is ending. Then again, Reuss is American and JDN is not, so there’s a different “feel” there for the customer base. Much as JDN did not have a good feel for the Japanese customer base at Infiniti.
I’m not sure JDN took much of a risk in helming Cadillac now. His career is really not as great as some people think. JDN was the head of Audi USA but not Audi worldwide. Yes the market share of Audi in the US rose while he was on the job, but how much of that can be attributed to what was going on at their world HQ in Germany, and how much can be attributed to the cachet of a German “sports luxury” brand at a time when German sports luxury brands became the latest “must have” fad for some rich status-seekers?
I don’t really see JDN as a risk-taker, in the sense that he will come out with any cars that create a real buzz and lust among the public. He already had his chance to do that by putting the Escala into production, he declined. As we’ve observed, Reuss wanted the car that is now the CT6 to be a bigger, better car. I realize that JDN didn’t have a lot of input there, but the car aims a little too low for a flagship, including the “6” which could have easily been changed by JDN. Also, JDN seems comfortable with a wide range of pricing/features, which means each car is practically several cars. The top line CT6 is a different car than the base, yet both have “Cadillac” and “CT6” badges. And don’t get me going again on the cheap decontented ATS and CTS on JDN’s watch. The bigger “risk” would have been to eliminate the cheap-o versions and have real standards for real Cadillacs. But that’s not JDN. Reuss, maybe.
JDN clearly has a playbook he’s used, and it’s made him a rich man. But he’s not a creative thinker from what I can tell. He moved Audi USA from Detroit to Virginia. Moved Infiniti global from Tokyo to Hong Kong, Moved Cadillac from Detroit to New York. He hugely admires BMW and wants to copy everything that they do. He loves “sporty” cars and wants every car to be “sporty” aka “driver’s cars”. He likes the super-duper versions of cars like the -V series more than anything. He thinks raising prices makes a car more attractive due to exclusivity. He likes his letter-number systems, which resemble the Teutonic ones but actually can be confining, and certainly lack soul. A funny comment I saw on the internet, with regard to their naming conventions was “leave it to the Germans to come with a complicated answer to a question no one asked”.
Bottom line though – JDN has his playbook and will not surprise us with anything. He’s not a risk-taker, and the success of Audi USA can’t be hugely attributed to him, IMO. He’ll copy the Germans, period. No buzz, no unique products, no change in direction unless the Germans change in that direction first. But he’ll make a lot of money for himself along the way, and that’s great for him.
Drew what you miss is Mr Ruess did have a car done and it was the CT6.
Mark is a GM lifer and was bullied buy the GM board. This is what has damaged Cadillac for decades.
On the other hand JDN is not a GM lifer and is Marks bull dog.
JDN does not need GM but they do need him.
And god once and for all give on on the copying the Germans BS. No one is copying them the reality no matter the country or make that is the center of the market today for most present and future buyers.
When building a brand you lead like you do shooting skeet. If not you are going to be late and miss constantly.
Right noe Mark did get the platforms right as these cars are class leading in performance and ability with any model from any country.
What JDN needs to do is over see the division to make sure the sweat the details. He has a very creative staff under him (you really thingk the division head is designing the cars) his place is to make sure the get the support, money and protection to build the cars as they need to.
No more of this having some 16th floor lifer dropping in to the tech center to see were cost can be cut.
JDN’s job is to make sure the get what they wants. That was the whole idea of going to NYC. Isolation from Detroit will help stop the tampering. It also will help attract better tallant to the division.
While the CTS V is a great car it would be much better with higher quality interiors and details. It would be even better with a Cadillac engine of its own identity to give more value to the nane.
To fix Cadillac there is no need to take risk if you do what is really needed. Fix the line up to what is selling. Fix the overlap of models that now are more confusing like the CTS and CT6 that nearly overlap each other. Fix the lack of the SUV models that the market is sucking up. Fix the low quality interiors. Fix the service provided by dealers and try to remove the poor performing ones. To offer class leading global technology, to fix the styling to where it is do compelling that peop,e are drawn to it not polarized to or from it.
None of this is risk it is just things GM had meddled in for way to long.
Just look at the Northstar. Great idea to make a DOHC Cadillsc engine, But GM tried to cut cost that lead to blown head gaskets. It lead to carbon issues and oil use. It lead to more quality image horrors.
They then tried to pass it off in a fwd car, now that was a major risk that failed.
The job of JDN is to manage the tallent and give them the support, guidance and backing.
This is what Lutz did but he came do late he had no money or time to fix much but he did get GM to start purging the folks who were the problem and left us with some really good people.
You really need to get into the details of what is going on and look into the internal struggles of the last 4 decades to understand what has been and is really going on.
Reading your comments makes me want to vomit. Get with the times! The “German fad” has been 30 years running and isn’t going away anytime soon. Casillac would already be dead if they followed your ideas.
The NYT reporter didn’t seem to really ask the hard questions.
It’d be great to see Cadillac re-assert themselves. But the article was a bit of a puff piece.
Like, the opening of Cadillac House in Germany was centered around Andy Warhol’s 60s letters, and artwork of 1958(?) Cadillacs.
Just visit their website, and Melody can explain, from Munich, how spot-on 50 year-old art synchs up with the market.
Lot of people here forget the 00′ produce the CTS/V STS/V XLR and rwd SRX and the sold well and act like people was bursting doors down for rent-a-Devilles. I don’t get because Cadillac have competitive rwd platforms being used its “harsh riding”?, bit pricey but that’s being worked on.
I see JDN thinks he will change the luxury consumer dynamic were the car shows subtle signs of luxury rather than the signs of the owner’s success. Sounds like he should be selling Buicks and his direction is set by some GM marketing clinic. The problem at GM for the last couple of decades is they forgot what a Cadillac is. It never was European. It is an American icon that American’s related to success. If you like German cars buy a German car.
Typical Drew Anti JDN broken record on time, that train is never late.
___
Anyway, I hope the XT4 is more Volvo & less GM\Lincoln. In an ideal world one would hope its more along the lines of the Macan & Velar, but given its platform limitations , Volvo or better is the best we can hope for now … Until such platform is capable & ready.
Yeah, we should see the “proper” RWD-based Cadillac crossovers after this wave… thanks to there not being an existing RWD crossover platform, and they can’t afford to miss the sales opportunity by not putting out more crossovers right now. But that’s ok as the VSS-R platform set should solve that dilemma after 2020.
That said, these front drive based CUVs will bring in the sales volume and the money.
Drew is just pissed that Cadillac isn’t making couches on wheels (like his DTS) any more. He’ll keep playing the Cadillac = bad card all the way to the end of that road… misinterpreting pretty much any move by the brand and its products, dismissing it as all negative, all the time. He’ll bad mouth the strategy, the direction, the people and (of course) the products. The new Cadillac, despite making big strides to finally compete with the leading Tier 1 lux brands, is all bad for Drew. All the time. Every time. He doesn’t get that it takes years and decades to turn around an operation like Cadillac. He expects results tomorrow… and doesn’t have the knowledge, experience, patience nor the business expertise to see the entire picture.
Even more interesting is tha Drew’s supposed “thinking out of the box” comes from a place of having extremely limited understanding of the luxury car market as many have pointed out on here. He continues to refuse to accept that the market has moved on from land yachts that made Cadillac (in)famous 50 years ago. He doesn’t understand that not keeping up with the market shift initiated by BMW and Mercedes is what brought Cadillac to the brink of disaster 15 years ago, something from which it is still recovering today.
But what do you want from a guy who drives a land yacht (DTS) that’s two generations (or more?) old? Can’t expect that kind of person to have a good understanding of the luxury car buyer or the luxury car market, can ya?
Drew – have you even driven any of Cadillac’s current vehicles?
And guys like “that” wouldn’t buy a new one regardless… They no longer represent the demographic which forks out the real money.
I have to wonder if the DTS was bought new or used. If it were purchased used, then GM/Cadillac never even saw the money for that land yacht to begin with.
Cheap shot, Alex.
Betcha Drew’s climate control attains and maintains a thermostatically controlled cabin temp. Wish my CTS did. The good old days.
I bought all my Cadillacs new. My next new car will be other branded.
Enjoy your Contin-rental.
Insurance rentals are Chevys.
You mean Taurus.
“Drew – have you even driven any of Cadillac’s current vehicles?”
Alex, please refer to October 2017 Car and Driver, page 108. Interview with JDN. He indicates that he does not own any car but is in the market for a “Cadillac Series 62 convertible in the ’53 to ’57 time range.”
Looks like the boss wants a luxurious ride. Let the hoi polloi bounce around in an ATS. Haha!
That’s to put in his living room as an ornament. You don’t think that a guy in his position actually drives do you?
To date the only thing I know JDN does is make intemperate remarks. His work for GM is not know to me. According to GMA we are to sit on the edge of our chairs and wait for his work after a few years.
As a Cadillac owner I would love it if JdN stepped up and made certain our B2B warranty is honored regardless of who was at the helm when the car was designed. We are his step children now. That seems to be lost on Cadillac brass.
Does he drive? The C&D item I referenced quoted him as saying he has gasoline in his veins. He should know. NYC residents usually have car services. Again I am not privy to his day to day activities. That is only known to the Chevrolet drivers on this site. 😉
Susan, that’s interesting that JDN is looking for a 4th Gen (mid 1950’s) Cadillac Series 62 convertible. Personally I’d prefer a 6th Gen (1959-60), but I’m a fan of those big tailfins – I really am.
Hopefully JDN actually rides in the convertible instead of just putting it on display. If so, maybe he’ll rethink this whole thing about killing all past Cadillac values, including the comfortable classic Cadillac ride in favor of the German “driver’s car” (aka “sport”) ride. Those 1950’s Cadillac convertibles were made for open air luxury cruising, not for frenetic weaving and winding through the twisties.
It’s ironic that the guy in charge of Cadillac doesn’t own a Cadillac. Also ironic that the only Cadillac he’ll consider buying – is one that hasn’t been made in 60 years, and is not remotely connected with what he plans to do with the brand.
Drew,
Maybe JdN likes the Dagmars 😉
He did say that his jobs provided him with company cars.
The C&D item was the one opposite the back cover. It’s what I would have done differently or something to that effect. They interview an auto exec each month.
I found it interesting that his regrets were in his personal life, not professional. He made a reference to being perceived as arrogant. Said if that is the perception there must be truth. He considers himself driven, not arrogant.
My parents had a 62 Series Cad in that time range. In that day it was considered something. My dad kept it showroom clean. He always maintained his cars beautifully.
Good memories.
You do realize that late 50s Cadillac other then Rolls Royce, Imperial and Lincoln was the most advanced, quickest luxury car money can buy, not a luxury retirement wannabe like XTS and DTS. Now the Germans have that title the luxury world have to answer to that.
Guestt, the Germans don’t have the luxury title. I’d say Rolls Royce has that. The Germans have the “sport handling sedan” and “unreliable complexity” title. And for the moment, that’s the fad for those who need neither the harsh handling nor the complexity, but do seek status from those who value the latest trend.
But a reliable 1st Class ride is still a reliable 1st Class ride, and the Germans by no means have that title. Cadillac does not have to answer to the Germans, in fact their pathetic attempts to copy the Germans in every way, has only caused them to become a laughing stock (the Cimarron, the V8-6-4, and the Catera were all Cadillac’s attempts to “answer” the Germans).
Cadillac had the title, at least in mass-production reliable 1st Class luxury, but chose to throw it away. Cadillac was much like the dog with a bone who saw its reflection in the water, and seeking a second bone it lost the only one that was real. Continuing to chase the Germans, rather than going back to being a leader doing what it does best (and which made it the success for which it is known), is much like a dog chasing after a moving car. The status fad of German “Nurburgring track oriented luxury” cars will soon fade; how will Cadillac be positioned when reliable 1st Class rides come back into favor?
So how come Benz go from not mentioned at all to outselling Caddy?, certainly not catering to middle-Americans with uncompetitive fwd slopboxes. I give you reliability as the Germans isn’t known for that but Cadillac have to answer to the Germans for luxury.
Guestt,
Please define luxury retirement wannabe.
Thanks
Answer: DTS………
You should be pointing your question to a GM board member or engineering and accounting to why the market moved from such crap like XTS and the ’86-’05 Devilles (I do have a soft spot for the ’91-’93 Devilles and fwd Fleetwoods). I just applaud the plans, I even hope to see Alpha and Omega vehicles go to Chevy and Buick. Your real alternatives come ’19 is :
A- go to a Lincoln dealer
B- go on Craigslist for a DTS
C- get a CUV
D- Buick Lacrosse
“Answer: DTS………”
That is not a definition. Is it necessary to define the meaning of define for you?
Luxury retirement wannabe is your words. No reason to direct my request for a definition of your phrase other than to you.
“Your real alternatives come ’19 is :
A- go to a Lincoln dealer
B- go on Craigslist for a DTS
C- get a CUV
D- Buick Lacrosse”
I did not ask for your guidance on my next car purchase. If I was looking for advice GMA Cadillac forum is not a place to inquire.
People on here are so full of themselves with babble of how wonderful the crap Cadillac is cranking out now is. The interesting thing is that the cheerleaders don’t own late model Cadillacs.
Do you currently own a late model a Cadillac? Hopefully you do.
I will define late model Cadillac as a Cadillac vehicle purchased new that is under the original manufacturer warranty.
This definition excludes extended warranties, driving mommy’s car, Cheap Cads (ATS) picked on the side of the road on the third or fourth bounce.
BTW we are in agreement on the ’91 to ’93 DeVille. That would be my first choice if I could find one that is not rusted out.
Thanks
We currently have both a 2016 and 2017 ATS both purchased new and previously had a 2013 purchased new in feb of 13 with ATS first came out. ATS is the reason I switched to cadillacs and will prob end up with a CT5 when my lease is up.
The DTS was a retirement Luxury wanna be because of the crap plastic interior, horrible handling, and lack of competitive technology, that was rarly purchased by anyone who wasn’t a retiree.
I’m surprised with your complaints about passing speeds because I find the 2.0t to be quick, much better midrange torque then the 3.6 and Great off the line. I drive fast and only issue I ever have is the transmission doesn’t always shift as quick as it should (I know that’s another complaint of yours). I always have mine in sport mode not sure if you’ve tried that??
Long story short Cadillac is saying out with the old in with the new. ATS brought in these 2 millennial buyers, which is what Cadillac is trying to do and needs to do to move forward. They are letting Lincoln take the few remaining soft ride old school luxury customers so they can focus on the core of the premium luxury market.
Carguy, you and several others here are too fixated on the DTS. Was it a perfect luxury car? No. Was it the best riding Cadillac of this century, and the car that came closest to closest to Cadillac’s core values that made them #1 for over 50 years straight? Yes. Should Cadillac have kept making the DTS forever? No. Should Cadillac be making modern cars that hew to their core values? I think so – and I think they’d be much more profitable if they did.
Instead of ruling the 1st Class ride and reliability segment as they did for decades, GM has chosen to make Cadillac yet another player in the already crowded German-like field. I think that’s been a mistake, and my proof is in Cadillac’s declining sales. If you want a German car, you’ll buy a German car. Cadillac is hoping they can get a small slice of the crowded German-like pie, instead of virtually owning an entire American-style pie. And when the German-like fad ends, the mistake will be all the more obvious.
But GM has made their decision and they’ll have to live with it now. After 2020 or so, Cadillac will be unrecognizable and frankly should no longer use the name. Cadillac will no longer be an American-styled 1st class ride. They might as well rename the brand “Generic German Imitator” or GGI. Those of you who think JDN is on the right track can feel smug and laugh as Cadillac falls lower and lower in the US luxury market. But at some point you have to recognize reality – that Cadillac has gone from #1 to #5 in their pursuit of German-like cars, and in 10 years they’ll be going to #8 or #9 under JDN.
@ Susan
“That is not a definition. Is it necessary to define the meaning of define for you?
Luxury retirement wannabe is your words. No reason to direct my request for a definition of your phrase other than to you.”
You ask me for and answer and I gave you one….
“I did not ask for your guidance on my next car purchase. If I was looking for advice GMA Cadillac forum is not a place to inquire.”
So why cry here on what GM won’t make for you?, I’d already gave you what will happen eventually, GM isn’t going with a failed program for full-size Cadillacs anymore .
Here’s a real winner;
“People on here are so full of themselves with babble of how wonderful the crap Cadillac is cranking out now is. The interesting thing is that the cheerleaders don’t own late model Cadillacs.”
But yet;
“This definition excludes extended warranties, driving mommy’s car, Cheap Cads (ATS) picked on the side of the road on the third or fourth bounce.”
Real humble pie right there, not owning a brand of a badly engineered car don’t negate buyers of under 5yr old Caddy or other brands opinion totally (I do have a 16′ Malibu btw) . ATPs, better competition and market shifts away from DTS type of cars is that you want. The ATS on the side of the road (which I haven’t seen ever) replaced the DTS/Deville on the side of the road with the blown Northstar motor with a pool of coolant underneath (the usual).
Alex, I might trade my DTS in for a better car – unfortunately I don’t see a better one from Cadillac. I don’t think Cadillac should make nothing but land yachts, I do think they should maintain their core values (see below). Although ride quality does tend to improve with size, there have been plenty of smaller cars with nice rides. Cadillac spent many decades establishing the best ride among mass production brands (i.e. “the Cadillac ride”) and it’s silly for them to throw that away, just to be another Euro-clone.
Henry had a great idea, make an ATS replacement with two comfortable seats instead of four cramped ones. The Cadillac values in a smaller footprint. That’s the kind of forward thinking that Lee Iacocca would embrace, but not the locked-in “only do what the Germans do” Johan. Did Steve Jobs bring back Apple by doing exactly what everyone else was doing, or by being ahead of the game with products people didn’t even know they wanted? So – no Cadillac should not go back to making land yachts only. Worth noting though that their high-profit Escalade is essentially a land yacht SUV.
Once again (and for the last time this year), here are what I feel should be Cadillac’s core values. Forget about the DTS when imagining these. Forget about “land yachts”. Note also that these values don’t include FWD, although I feel that is a desirable feature for Cadillac. Obviously their have been classic Cadillacs, maintaining the core values below, with RWD.
CADILLAC CORE VALUES (then and should be now)
– Seating should be roomy, head and legroom for driver and passengers.
– Ride should be comfortable, best among the mass-produced cars
– Car should be very reliable, similar to Lexus today
– Car should be very refined – no loud engine, no hard shifting gears, no squeaks and rattles, etc.
– Interior should be real luxury, no cheap-o base models. Seats comfortable and supportive.
– Electronics should be up-to-date, including very good sounding stereo.
– Engine should be smooth and powerful; easy merging and passing
– Exterior styling should be bold, angular, American.
– Cadillac should not sell cheap cars under the Cadillac name, including “base” versions with cheap seating surfaces, cheap headlights, cheap stereos, downgraded engines, etc. in other words, every Cadillac should be worthy of the name.
– Cadillac flagship especially should be offered with very few if any options, so that all who drive or ride in it will be getting the best that Cadillac has to offer.
Alex, do you have any problem with accepting the above as “core values” for Cadillac? If not, why not? As for other features like “sport handling”, I am not against this, but Cadillac should never sacrifice ride comfort for it. Cadillac might be able to use MRC in a way that offers a traditionally plush ride but with better handling. However they seem to just use that to make the “sporty” ride even more sporty, while keeping the comfort at “firm” rather than the “stiff” it would otherwise become.
And if Cadillac wanted to really think out of the box, they could try something like the Citroen hydropneumatic suspension, for a plush ride AND good handling. But hey if the Germans aren’t doing something, neither will Johan, so you can forget about that type of creativity from Cadillac under JDN. I conclude with what I believe to be Johan de Nysschen’s core values, which he intends to impose on Cadillac, rather than embracing their classic core values.
JDN core values (from what I’ve seen):
– HQ must be moved away from mainstream clods who “don’t understand genius”
– All cars must be “sports” cars, regardless of type (family car, minivan, SUV, luxury car, golf cart, etc).
– All cars must be on a RWD platform
– Euro-rounded styling, kill off any vestige of American appearance
– Create soulless letter-number “naming”, change often to confuse customers
– The more gears the better, regardless of reliability
– Create and promote super-duper performance (such as –V) versions
– Higher prices = “right driveways”
– Yet conversely – cheap base versions are ok, even though not worthy of brand standards.
– Don’t do anything the Germans haven’t already done; merely match them class-for-class”, spec-for-spec, style-for-style. Copy them even in non-German markets and for non-German brands. Don’t try to lead, let the Germans do that. Admit that people should really buy German cars instead of yours. Hope that someone will buy your non-German-badged car anyway.
– Continue silly advertising and bizarre marketing (Coffee and fashion shows? Road-to-table? Helicopter rides?), brought to you by the useless Uwe and Melody. Claim you need to wait 15 years before seeing positive results. If no positive results by then, insist you need another 15 years. Stay the course even as sales plummet and losses mount. Repeat until bankruptcy. Then recapitalize and continue the strategy.
Drew why don’t you understand that your “core values” are what nearly ran Cadillac out of business?? You forget that 15 years ago all the cadillacs were big soft riding boats with comfortable seats and soft suspensions and the brand went down the drain while everyone bought european Lux cars and Lexus. The land taught is dead and it’s never coming back. The DTS was never the peak of realiability luxurious interior real luxury car it is a plastic interior piece of garbage with the same radio and ac controls as an impala with NOTHING that’s state of the art or top of the line. It has an unreliable engine that leaks oil and blows head gaskets even at low mileage. Has an antiquated 4 speed transmission, is slower then a minivan, and has 0 style. That is why Cadillac lost its reputation and credibility. The market for cars that offer nothing but comfort is dead and dispite your dreams it is never coming back.
Carguy wrote: “Drew why don’t you understand that your “core values” are what nearly ran Cadillac out of business??…”
Carguy, why don’t YOU understand that GM/Cadillac DID GO OUT OF BUSINESS (in 2009). And they were long past the “core values” that made them #1 in the past, and heavily into the German-imitation by then. If going BK is the proof you need of failure, then it happened after trying to imitate the Germans, not before.
And when are you going to understand that the biggest hits to Cadillac’s reputation – the V8-6-4, the Cimarron, and the Catera – ALL came from trying to imitate the Germans? Beyond that, the reality is that if someone wants a German-like car, they’ll buy a German one. I don’t even think most of the buyers particularly like the German car values, they just buy them because those cars are “in” for the moment. In other words they are buying status symbols, not utility. No I can’t prove that, but it’s a legitimate theory.
The 8-4-2 you talk about in every post was almost 40 years ago no one card about that… what did run them out of business as you noted was building boats that were not relevant in the market, not chasing the Germans if anything the problem is they were way behind the Germans. There’s a reason that bmw and Mercedes are the two leadin Lux brands. I’m not saying they should copy them exactly but they need to compete. DTS will never compete. JDN is doing the right things to bring the brand forward and make Cadillac truly tier one for the first time in decades.
Agreed on both counts.
IMO Caddy (and Chrysler also) started to lose their way in the mid- late 60s when luxury went from large-but-performance to large-n- sloppy and in to the smoged-motor 70s . They somewhat recognised this and put forward the Seville and Cardoba but it was too little effort and it’s when the Germans became a name in luxury and performance.
Now Caddy is wisely getting back to luxury performance and many here think a 2006 DTS is the answer to Cadillacs problems.
You call it losing their way, I call it being complacent, arrogant and fat. The Europeans and Japanese entered the market with rapidly improving products and built products that people wanted to buy. Essentially, they faced solid competition which results in better products today.
Nobody wants to buy the current Cadillacs, because they are boring/dated and cheap lookin. Jeez its 2017 and the current ats/cts don’t even have the full led. Art and science is dead. Its boring. The current life less tail lights are boring. . Bean counters are boring. Period!!!
So stop criticizing JDN. Because he understands what to do. “Curvaceous” and “sculpted” that what this brand really needs. Cadillac needs more passion in its design. It needs some unique engines, expensive interiors. And I’m pretty sure this man will do well. You can’t ruin anything that is already ruined. So thig guy knows what to do and thats the main thing. *Uck this current vomit design. A&S *uck you boring *hit. Its a new time. Cadillac is coming back. Finally the golden era is coming back.
Will the XT4 be a plug in? (a PHEV)
The problem we have here are two groups.
We have one that think that Cadillac was relevant in the last 40 years. Then there is the other group that know it has been much longer.
I spent some time with a V16 town car last Sunday. I studied the car inside and out.
It was a leader in al, areas of build quality , performance, style, luxury and technology.
Yes many of you think it was just a luxury car but it held one of the most advanced engines of its time and at over two tons could still get up to sixty in less than 16 seconds when most of the cars half the weight could not even match that.
It also was not a car that just anyone could buy or own. If you had one it bestowed an image on the owner that said you were a successful person in what ever field you were in.
Now those qualities are the same the Germans hold in most of their models. They are different but relevant to our times and most customer desires.
Right now auto buyers have changed what they want. The automaker needs to change or in Cadillacs case adapt you were most are.
While Cadillac has had a great heritage it means nothing today as they fell out of relevance. They need to get back to the basics of build quality, performance, style, luxury and technology that is relevant to today’s market.
Chose to be the best in class in each of these areas and you will change hearts and minds.
Here is something I hope they learn and follow again. Read this Cadillac ad and think big picture vs petty beefs of too stiff suspensions or they need a coupe.
http://mascola.com/insights/retro-ad-of-the-week-cadillac-1915-the-penalty-of-leadership/
Scott3, that’s very cool that you spent time in and around a Cadillac V-16 recently. I hope you got to ride in it. I saw several classic cars from the 1930’s at a show many years ago, when I was in Dearborn/Detroit for a friend’s wedding. The cars they had were beautifully made (and maintained/restored), even a maroon Chrysler LeBaron was very impressive. I didn’t get a chance to ride in any of them however, I’m guessing that no one in the public did, given the value of these cars. Still great to see them up close, outside and inside.
As far as comparing them to what the Germans are doing today, I’m not sure I understand your comparison, but I don’t see them as having the same goals. Classic Cadillacs were always strongly powered (until the 1982 Cimarron) and refined, but I don’t see them having the German focus on handling and “feel the road” sensitivity. Classic Cadillacs also focused on reliability, while that’s not traditionally a major focus for the Germans.
Yes Porsche tends to get high marks for reliability, and the VW “bug” was highly reliable (due in large part to simplicity), but later German cars have been notoriously unreliable including modern VW’s. I’m not saying the Germans can’t manage reliability, it just doesn’t seem to be a priority, like it was for Cadillac until they lost track of their core values in the 1980’s and tried to be more and more like a German brand. I’d say that Lexus has better embraced Cadillac’s former core values (especially reliability and comfort) than the Germans, though they started giving their LS series a stiffer ride about 8-10 years ago, and sales of that model dropped off considerably once this change was made.
As far as the V-12 specifically, looks like a beautiful car and probably an excellent ride. Huge machine, look at the specs of a Gen 2 V-12 222″ overall length, 77.6″ width, and 140″ wheelbase. The earlier V-12s had even longer wheelbases, some as long as 154″! I don’t know what kind of suspensions they had, but with the long wheelbase, wide stance, and high profile tires – I’m thinking it must have been among the smoothest and most comfortable rides of the era.
One thing about the V-12 though, they only sold 4076 of them in an 11 year period. Sorry but that’s not what Cadillac should aim for now, as the luxury brand of a publicly held, mass-production auto company. I think some people here – I don’t know if you are one of them Scott3 – seem to think that Cadillacs should be so rare that the average person will hardly ever see one in their lives. I know that Cadillac did some great work in the pre WWII era, and established the brand and values that eventually vaulted it to the number one luxury car in the US, and rightly so. But for me the post WWII era is where Cadilac really became Cadillac, not just an artistic statement but a high-profit source, and frankly something Americans could actually attain if they diligently succeeded – not just at the 1% of the 1% level. I’m interested in both luxury cars and business/investment, so to me it’s the post WWII era that interests me the most. But there’s absolutely no escaping the beauty and build quality of those 1930’s V-12s.
Speaking of post WWII Cadillac (and smooth rides), about 3-4 months ago I saw the end of some reality tv show, where they had restored a 1957 Cadillac, kind of a forest green color, which was apparently the original or at least an original color option. After restoration, some people went for a ride in it, and you could hear their astonishment over the smooth comfortable ride. The chief restorer said “Yes this is a lot different than the ride of a modern car”. I think one problem today is that rides have gotten harder and harder (Germanized, for the Autobahn and the Nurburgring Nordschleife) to the point where young people don’t realize what a smooth ride can feel like, or is even possible. What I’ve long felt is that if Cadillac would embrace “the Cadillac ride” that they made famous, and advertise it as part of a 1st Class ride (along with roominess and luxury upholstery, etc) they’d actually have a very nice niche of the market, practically to themselves. Of course they’ll also have to bring back reliability, something they’ve really fallen down on since their classic years.
Correction – in the instances above where I wrote V-12, I meant V-16. Cadillac did have a V-12, but Scott3 was talking about the V-16. I may also have been thinking of the modern Bentley 12 cylinder or Ferrari 12 cylinder. Hard for me to get my head around 16 cylinders!
Speaking of corrections, I see that this article has been retitled and the first paragraph changed. Where it previously said “his brand”, it now says “the brand”. Good change. By no means is Cadillac “his” (JDN’s) brand, even if he may seem to think it’s his to do as he pleases.
Actually they would be out of business because they only people to buy cadillacs would be octogenarians for the last car they’ll ever own.
Carguy, actually GM/Cadillac went out of business in 2009. It was called bankruptcy. The original shareholders got wiped out completely. The original bondholders got pennies on the dollar. Of course the executives continued to get their fat salaries.
Today’s GM is a recapitalized and entirely new corporate entity, not the same GM of the 20th century. Trying imitate the Germans (from the 1980’s onward) took Cadillac from 1st place to 5th among US luxury sales – and is currently falling further (based on the recent monthly sales numbers). Lexus essentially adhered to most of the former Cadillac values (roomy, reliable, comfortable, etc. – all but the bold Cadillac styling), and has succeeded spectacularly with that. In the US luxury market, Cadillac was #1 from post WWII to 1998, Lincoln took that honor in 1999, and Lexus held it from 2000-2010. Even today, Lexus is just a hair behind MB at #2 in the US luxury market.
Bottom line: GM/Cadillac DID NOT survive via imitating the Germans, in fact it did not survive at all. But other brands which emulated the classic Cadillac values ruled through 2010, and Lexus today is still essentially at the top. The German fad has been recent and will soon end. Not everyone wants a German or German-like car, which is probably why luxury sedan sales are weak even as SUV/CUV sales are very strong. Meanwhile 1st Class rides and reliability never go out of style. So it’s impossible to say that if Cadillac had not gotten away from its core values, it would not have survived. We do know however that the original entity making Cadillacs did not survive, and they did change to German-like output well before going BK.
So they BK because of Cadillacs like DTS and you want them to build more cars like that post BK, got it….
Guestt, I’m pretty sure that the DTS sold over 51k and over 30k in the US, during the two rocky years before GM BK, 2007 and 2008. The more German-like (sport handling, RWD) STS sold over 20k and 14k units those same years.
Last year the ATS sold a little over 21k units (US) last year, and the CTS sold a little under 16k units (but they PROPERLY COPIED THE GERMAN CLASSES!). The ATS and CTS will sell a lot fewer units this year than last year.
And how many CT6s do you think they’ll sell in the US this year, which should be their best year (1st full production year of the model)? At this point it looks like they’ll be lucky to sell 14k units. and sales will have to pick up substantially in the final 4 months for that to happen.
Also when you consider that Cadillac/GM put a lot more development and advertising expense into the STS, ATS, CTS, and CT6 than they ever did into the DTS – then I find it hard to believe that the DTS led them into BK. I’m just going with the numbers, but it appears to me that the DTS was a high profit, high sales car during the pre-bankruptcy years. It’s also the car that embraced Cadillac’s classic values more than any of their current sedans.
So let’s all cheer johan for dumping all of Cadillac’s values, including now the bold angular styling (once the XT4 comes out, and forever after). Because he’s in charge so he must be right. And after all he was the head of Audi USA at a time when German luxury cars were becoming popular in the USA, and when Audi of Germany was churning out some decent cars (mostly FWD sedans by the way), so Johan rode that wave and now some people think he created it. Yep, the guy is clearly a genius, so let’s embrace his South African/German car values and trash the values that made Cadillac #1 for 50+ years straight, an American icon, and a word meaning “the top of the line”.
“Guestt, I’m pretty sure that the DTS sold over 51k and over 30k in the US, during the two rocky years before GM BK, 2007 and 2008. The more German-like (sport handling, RWD) STS sold over 20k and 14k units those same years.
Last year the ATS sold a little over 21k units (US) last year, and the CTS sold a little under 16k units (but they PROPERLY COPIED THE GERMAN CLASSES!). The ATS and CTS will sell a lot fewer units this year than last year.”
Yep they sold that many DTS at a loss and lets not forget it was the Defecto limo, black taxi and hearse , the ATS/CTS is sold at profit, big difference. The CT6 is at a price-point and ATP the DTS never dreamed.
“Also when you consider that Cadillac/GM put a lot more development and advertising expense into the STS, ATS, CTS, and CT6 than they ever did into the DTS – then I find it hard to believe that the DTS led them into BK. I’m just going with the numbers, but it appears to me that the DTS was a high profit, high sales car during the pre-bankruptcy years. It’s also the car that embraced Cadillac’s classic values more than any of their current sedans.”
The DTS embraced Rodger Smith-era cheapness and deep discounts with a then 25-yr old platform and transmission plus a 20 year old motor that never got right until the final years. Those along with GMs many missteps of handling money and brands led them into BK.
“o let’s all cheer johan for dumping all of Cadillac’s values, including now the bold angular styling (once the XT4 comes out, and forever after). Because he’s in charge so he must be right. And after all he was the head of Audi USA at a time when German luxury cars were becoming popular in the USA, and when Audi of Germany was churning out some decent cars (mostly FWD sedans by the way), so Johan rode that wave and now some people think he created it. Yep, the guy is clearly a genius, so let’s embrace his South African/German car values and trash the values that made Cadillac #1 for 50+ years straight, an American icon, and a word meaning “the top of the line”.”
CUV’s are the new DTS (except the’re competitive and people are buying them) Caddy’s image been dumped since the 70’s, Audi’s FWD/AWD is way too complicated to duplicated even by the Germans plus the RWD V cars show Audi a thing or 2 on a road-course, the cars you want Cadillac to build/was building isn’t top-of-the-line more like end-of-the line-lets-meet-the-coroner.
I’d also like to ad that sales numbers aren’t everything, some models might not sell great but help improve the brands image, others sell well but hurt the brand image. many people today think of Cadillac as an old man brand because of cars like the DTS. Even though it’s been out of production for years now it is still haunting the brand. xts has this problem too to a lesser degree. There are thousands of people every year who choose to buy a 3 series over and ats purely because of DTS/deville, et al. Once xts is discontinued and the cuv line up is filled out (plus hopefully a sports car or two) Cadillac can really start to make some change. Come 2020 when the new lineup is in place I suspect you will get a good picture of what Cadillac should be, a true premium brand.
Carguy, ha ha – yes the old “If only Cadillac would stop selling those models that I don’t like, even though they sell well to others and make a lot of profit for the company, then sales of the slow selling models that are REALLY GREAT (because I love them personally) will sell like hotcakes”.
Its one thing for a very poorly built, unreliable car to hurt the image of a brand. It’s quite another to have strong sales of well-made vehicles hurt a brand, just because YOU wouldn’t buy it. If that were the case, BMW sales are being held back by the dinky electric powered I3, and Mercedes Benz sales are being hurt by their rather plebian vans and trucks. Furthermore, why would anyone want a Corvette Stingray or a Camaro, when the same brand sells the Spark and Sonic?
I’ve been hearing this goofball theory for a long, long time – that only if Cadillac could get rid of their FWD sedans, then sales of their RWD sedans would go through the roof. Or that if they end the comfortable ride in all models, people will take them seriously as a track-performer. Or I guess now it’s that they need to end the SUVs and CUVs (per Guestt – if I understand him correctly).
You know what? In August the 3 best selling Cadillacs were the XT5, XTS, and Escalade. So that’s a FWD CUV, a FWD sedan, and a “land yacht” SUV. All the things that are hated by the “sport luxury” crowd. I remember Uwe Ellinghaus saying that the Escalade did not represent the future of the brand, so I guess the future he envisions will have both low sales and low profits per model.
Your theory will get tested under JDN, he seems to be on a mission to eliminate everything that Cadillac once stood for, as well as the type of models that are selling now. He’s going to make every car a “sports” car, everything RWD, and everything rounded like the Germans, not angular like Cadillac. He’s going to match the Germans class-for-class and spec-for-spec, because that’s the “proper” thing to do.
And what will you say in 10-15 years when Cadillac has fallen from the current 5th place to perhaps 8th or 9th place in US luxury car sales? You’ll have nowhere to hide when “the theory” of increasing sales by eliminating the ones you wouldn’t buy personally, goes up in smoke. I’m not looking forward to being proven right however, because it’s sad for me to see this proud American icon get killed off like this. I also feel sorry for the new GM shareholders, who are getting taken for ride – off a cliff – by Johan, Uwe, and Melody.
its not a goofball theory….. its the truth, image is a big factor. escalade might be big but its nothing like a DTS because its actually cool, its a car people want. XTS only sells because they are all rentals and fleet cars. SUVs all together are a different animal then sedans although i would rather see the XT5 and XT4 be alpha platform. if they can rebuild the brand image then younger buyers will come and younger buyers dont want an XTS.
Ian, It IS a goofball theory. If someone wants a good car, they don’t hesitate to buy it simply because not every car in the line-up is one that they would buy. How many 7-series BMW buyers would ever consider an i3?
But the good news for proponents of the goofball theory, is that it will be fully put to the test under JDN. My question though is at what point will you accept that the theory was wrong? I guess we’ll know in 10-15 years, but it’s sad to see an American icon sacrificed like this, to a goofball theory. It’s sad to see the original shareholders wiped out, and the new shareholders missing the profits they could have had, if Cadillac had remained Cadillac.
If GM wanted to build an entirely new “sports luxury” brand, they should have used a different brand name (such as Corvette), not by killing an existing one that was still profitable. That’s all I have to say here. Good luck to JDN and “his” brand (the link still has that title). RIP Cadillac.
Guestt, like it or not, the DTS was a very high profit model for Cadillac/GM. In what way was GM selling over 50k per year of their highest priced, lowest development cost sedan at a loss?
The V8 Northstar and 4 speed hydramatic transmission, while relatively old by the time they reached the DTS, worked smoothly and perfectly. I’d much rather have a smooth and reliable older motor and transmission, than some new complex high gear set-up that doesn’t work well. Ask Susan here how much she likes the modern 8 speed transmission on her 3rd generation CTS.
“CUVs are the new DTS”? Yes CUVs sell in high quantity and make a lot of money for Cadillac GM, just like the DTS. As I’ve pointed out many times, this is a business, not an artistic statement.
“Ask Susan here how much she likes the modern 8 speed transmission on her 3rd generation CTS.
I’ll trade you even for your DTS sight unseen.
Drew,
In reference to how much I like my 3rd generation CTS, I don’t.
The purchase was a mistake. No reason to try to dress it up. I always bought Cadillacs so I bought another one. I didn’t shop anything else.
I don’t know if the problem is the transmission or the engine, 2.0 turbo. The car is no good in highway traffic.
It’s no good in winter. Even with the AWD it has no traction. If the winter tires don’t make it reasonably drivable it will be decision time for me.
I have a convertible for summer so I don’t have a use for a summer only car.
Actually, last winter I was looking for a DTS to use in winter. I saw one at local dealers that looked decent online. Price was too high but that’s to be expected. The dealer advertising the car is the selling dealer on my CTS. I will not do business with them again so I didn’t pursue the DTS.
Before I started car shopping last year my mechanic said out of hand not to buy another Cadillac. Several months later he again cautioned me against Cadillac. I wish I pursued this with him.
The second time he advised me against Cadillac the shop was very busy on a Friday near close. That was not the time to trouble him to expand on why I should leave Cadillac. I should have set a time to talk with him but I jumped out there bad and bought that CTS.
Under the circumstances I consider myself forewarned so I must take full responsibility for the bucket of bolts in my garage.
I like the way the car looks. The car is much more pleasant to look at than to drive. That’s the only positive thing I can say about it.
Susan, don’t beat yourself up too badly for buying a Cadillac, against the wishes of your mechanic – and that you don’t like now. There was a time when Cadillac stood for something (see “core values” listed by me on this topic), and you could just buy any Cadillac and know you were getting a great reliable car, great ride, etc.
But Cadillac has slowly been moving toward German-wannabe status, which means cramped, hard-riding, unreliable. Once JDN kills off the XTS, the FWD XT5 (he’s going all RWD he says), and the angular Cadillac styling, the last vestiges of “real Cadillac” will be gone. It will be CINO from 2020 or so onward, Cadillac In Name Only.
Now that JDN has made his path clear, I have lost all interest in Cadillac. In 10 years when Cadillac has dropped even further in popularity (to perhaps the 8th-10th US luxury name, from current 5th), I guess I can say “I told you so”. But it gives me no pleasure to witness the death of this American icon.
Cadillac is no longer “the Cadillac of cars”, and that’s by design, from GM “management” (the same group that took the BK in 2009). Starting in the 1980’s and 1990’s, with the German-imitations V8-6-4, the Cimarron, and the Catera, then going all-in on German imitation in the 2000’s – Cadillac lost its way, its confidence, and its leadership, by looking behind it instead of looking ahead and confidently retaining their core values.
It didn’t have to be this way, but it’s over. Cadillac is no more. Susan – we’ll just have to accept that, as sad as it is. I’ll leave it to the rest of you to turn off the lights. Thanks again to Alex Luft and the rest for providing this website and discussion forum.
Drew,
You’re very kind. Thank you for this post. I hope you don’t leave the forum. Please don’t let any ATS driving individual Cadillac shame you. You are a satisfied Cadillac owner. A satisfied Cadillac owner should not be anathema here. Very strange.
I hope the winter tires make my car drivable in milder winter weather. I’ll just stay home if it’s bad. There are a few other things that must be addressed if I am to keep the car awhile longer. The steering wheel controls are very stiff. I takes a lot of force to get the controls to respond. I’m developing a repetitive stress from that. I’ll ask the SA soon to try them and see if it can be remedied.
The climate control is a joke. I’ve already been told that’s the way it is. I guess I can live with that if the winter driving and steering wheel controls issue are resolved.
Cadillac has done climate control flawlessly for decades. Now Cadillac no longer knows how to do that. In winter the heat will work to a point. Instead of damping down as your DTS does mine starts to blow AC. SA already said thats’ the way it works.
I’m still dumbfounded as to how much Cadillac has degraded itself. These are simple functions that worked flawlessly in the background. Now it’s no can do. How does that happen?
I hope you stay here and continue to post. You never know when someone from GM will get tired of the falling sales and take a peek as what those of us who own Cadillacs post. It could happen. When the take is down business types take notice.
Cadillac is a global brand but what is the split of profits that they don’t have to share in NA?
I was out driving today and thought of you Your late 50’s Cadillac convertible with the amazing tail fins drove by. It was beautiful. I wish you could have seen it.
It was a beautiful day today. Many people had their vintage, classic or exotic vehicles on the road. I was driving a vintage car too. The car and I are celebrating it’s birthday. The car has been in the family over 25 years today. It felt so good to drive a real car that responds properly. No weird gizzys nagging or back seat driving. Just pure fun. The car has a manual transmission so that’s especially fun to drive. Good day today.
Please stay around and voice your opinion. You are a Cadillac owner. This is a Cadillac comment section. Seems to me you qualify.
Thanks again for the post!
Thanks Susan, just to be clear – I’m not losing interest in “Cadillac” due to comments of ATS-lovers on this message board. I’m fine with the arguments back and forth, in fact I think they help make this website more interesting.
Also, I will always be interested in most Cadillacs from 1903 until the end of the line in 2020 or so, at which point JDN will have completely buried the last vestiges of this classic American brand, including the American/Cadillac bold angular styling. I might participate in some websites as you have suggested, but those will largely be backward looking. I’m all for nostalgia but there’s nothing to look forward to in the future.
I happen to live in an area where there are a lot of Cadillacs. They stand out from the other cars, and to me they look great. They sadly don’t all have the classic ride, roominess, refined power, etc. of the DTS and previous versions, but they still look like Cadillacs. My next door neighbor has a red CTS that looks great (he previously had a red STS which also looked great, so he must be like you in favoring red Cadillacs). A little further down someone has a white XT5 (yes the new CUV replacement for the SRX) parked in the driveway (right driveway?) and it looks awesome.
But even the new, very-strong-selling XT5 is a dinosaur under JDN, slated for extinction. JDN says no more FWD, everything must be RWD, no more angular styling, and every car must be a so-called “driver’s car”, which means he favors sport-handling over classic cruiser Cadillac comfortable rides.
Now I wouldn’t insist that Cadillac make no cars with RWD, but why can’t JDN be open to at least some cars with FWD? FWD is better in snow, offers more legroom than RWD. AWD makes cars needlessly heavy, complex, and costly – as well as robbing legroom vs. FWD. Yet to JDN, all FWD is on the way out from Cadillac, so that means the XT5 has no place here despite massive sales, very nice appearance, and utility that owners seem to enjoy.
So it’s been nice to chat about existing Cadillacs and to imagine what the future could have been like. But given that JDN has made it 100% clear where he is taking the brand (see my post about JDN core values, on this topic), I have no interest in future Cadillacs. Maybe in 10 or so years, when the brand continues to collapse and JDN finally gets fired (along with Uwe and Melody), someone will come along to revive the classic Cadillac core values (“real Cadillac”) – for modern cars of course – and I’ll have an interest in them again. As long as JDN and HIS values remain, I have no interest in what “phony Cadillac” will produce in the future.
Drew,
The ATS is a nice little car. I had one for a service loaner for two days earlier this year. When I gave it throttle it would get up and go. I like that!. The second day I had the ATS I used the cruise. It would be easy for me to get in trouble with a car like that. I prefer a little more room in a car but the ATS is nice.
The spirited debates do make the site interesting. It would be nice if discussions didn’t degrade to personal attacks but that’s the cyber world.
I favor FWD too. We have winter here. The first Cad I had with FWD was a smaller car than I was accustomed to. I loved the FWD in snow. The Cad I have now is my first AWD vehicle. Not impressed so far. Tires may make a difference. Hope so.
Interesting that you have so many Cadillacs near you. Most of the cars in my area are luxury imports. There are quite a few traditional Cadillacs near me. People who have them hang on to them. There are a few updated Cads but the imports rule the area.
I hope Cadillac goes with a well powered vehicle. JdN indicating an interest in the ’53 to ’57 62 Series was encouraging. No lawn mower motors in that day. I wonder if he was just giving lip service to the traditional Cadillac customer selecting a time range where the original owners are already dead. No danger there.
JdN made a statement that those cars were so elegant. They were. Maybe Cadillac will do a true luxury sedan once the CUV segment is populated. A girl can dream. 😉
Cadillac always made a good looking car. I hope they continue that and possibly entertain some options once they cover the bases needed to get the numbers up.
I hope you stay around. I enjoy reading various opinions. We all have different preferences and needs. I want a big, bold luxury sedan with a thirsty, throaty V-8 that never passes a gas station!
Nice post Susan. I too would hope to see JDN’s mid 1950’s Series 62 convertible (if he ever gets one) having an influence on his thinking. Not only to return to making sure that every Cadillac is strongly powered, but also to give them all the plush comfortable “Cadillac ride” or at least the option of it via an electronic setting.
However, i have zero hope of that actually happening. JDN seems very set in his ways in terms of where he wants to take Cadillac, and that’s to make it just like the Germans in every way. If he wants to own a classic Cadillac, it may be just so he can point to it and say “I killed that! I killed 100+ years of a proud American icon”. Gee good for him, but he did have help (thanks Ms. Barra).
So again, i don’t have any interest in the Cadillacs once JDN has totally made his imprint on them. If my DTS ever conks out in say 10-15 years, I might look for a used 2019 XTS (the last year of production). FWD only though, as I understand the AWD versions are significantly underpowered due to the extra weight of AWD. Even the FWD version could use more power. Hopefully there will be some other choice from some other brand, stepping in to fill the void that Cadillac is abandoning. For now I don’t see anyone that quite measures up to the Cadillac core values as I laid them out on this topic.
Drew,
Do you ever visit the Cadillac Owners Forum? There is a robust DTS subforum. Much respect for the model. You may enjoy it. I read it occasionally.
I still look in fondly at the Fleetwood/DeVille RWD and Fleetwood/FWD subfora. My usual place is the 3rd generation CTS forum for obvious reasons.
People on the Cadillac Owners Forum are friendly and congenial. The emphasis is on sharing info and helping each other with our cars. Just yesterday I learned that the radio in my car has a feature to notify if a song or artist I favor is on another channel. I thought that was cool. It’s a CUE thing.
CUE has it’s merits. My concern with CUE is the need to look away from the road. I resist that as much as I possibly can. I realize that the screen will most likely delaminate at some point. If it’s an out of warranty repair I’ll just pay for that like I pay for everything else.
My CTS is not horrible. There are rough edges that Cadillac could smooth out if they wanted to. We’ll see what unfolds eventually.
LoL that’s fine Drew if you try to argue but GM has spoken and it isn’t some 4-speed, headgasket-blowing sloppy dinosaur that wasn’t competitive since 2003. However Lincoln can take your business…..
Curious. Why are posters told to buy a Buick or a Lincoln? Mercedes, Lexus and BMW are out of business?
Because posters who think Cadillac should be building transverse, FWD-based comfort-luxury cars instead of RWD performance-luxury cars in the name of “American Luxury” (an idea that is actually insulting, because before the Germans took over, there was simply ‘luxury’; ‘American Luxury’ was always been considered inferior to ‘European Luxury’), seem to forget that Buick is the comfort-luxury brand.
People here like Drew and others are getting nostalgic for when GM rebadged Buicks and Oldsmobiles and sold them as Cadillacs for thousands more. The rest of us would like to think Cadillac is beyond those days, but the compromises made in CUV development for the XT4 and XT5 mean Old GM still has their hand in things.
Curtnik,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As to what we buy that’s our choice. It may not be a GM product but unless posters here are funding the purchase they have no vote.
Money talks. Everything else walks. 🙂
Have a good evening.
I’ve been told that the Northstar issue was resolved as early as 2003. I have no direct knowledge.
A Cadillac specialist cared for my Cadillacs for many years. He advised me to avoid anything newer than 1993 and avoid Northstar at that time. The 4.9 V-8 was ok. Specialist told me he would let me know when it would be ok to buy a Cadillac.
In 2006 he leased a DTS. The car was excellent. He told me to go ahead at that point if I wanted to buy one.
Drew’s car is newer than that. I doubt he will experience the headgasket issue you referenced.
I’m sure his is at least leaking oil if it hasn’t blown a head gasket. Even the later northstars ussually need a lower end reseal or head gasket by 70k, and even ones that don’t NEED it leak oil. Just my experience.
Carguy,
Interesting observation. I never owned a Cadillac that went more than 60,000 miles without the transmission failing. I took mine to a trans specialist and they ran forever after a rebuild. 60k seems low milage for the trans to fail but I never condemned Cadillac as a result.
I enjoyed all my previous Cadillacs. That’s why I never shopped anything else before I bought the current one.
No discussion on the ATS piston failure issue? We’re just going to do a virtual dissection of Drew’s car so we can run him down?
If Drew is pleased with his car that’s good enough for me.
Regarding the Northstar V8, I have never had a problem with mine – but how is any Northstar problem a knock on building another car like the DTS? The Northstar wasn’t unique to the DTS, and there’s no reason a new version of the DTS couldn’t be equipped with a simpler V8 or turbo V6.
It’s ironic that the only serious knock on the DTS is the Northstar, when that engine was in fact designed for other Cadillac models and was made as an “answer” to you-know-who, the Germans! If Cadillac had remained on its original path of luxury with reliability rather than needless complexity, the Northstar would never have been developed.
As Alex Luft has pointed out here (and I hope I am paraphrasing him correctly), sometimes cars are made needlessly complex for the sake of complexity, or rather the “bragging rights” of complexity. Even though the added complexity may barely eke out extra performance, and the owner pays a high cost not only in MSRP but also in reduced reliability. This is the classic German thing, over-engineering for the sake of alleged “cool factor”, or “bragging rights” as Alex rightly called it. Toyota/Lexus tries to avoid this trap, for which they are derided as “boring” but they rank very high in reliability, which itself is a luxury feature IMO. Cadillac IMO needs to get back to a focus on reliability rather than needless complexity, but that clearly won’t happen under JDN.
Another thing about the Northstar – it was part of a push for engines unique to Cadillac, or at least not shared with plebian brands like Chevy. As I’ve stated, I don’t care if Cadillac uses some Chevy parts, including an entire Chevy engine, as long as those parts result in functionality and reliability that is worthy of Cadillac. Obviously if a Chevy engine were worthy of Cadillac, it would have to be an excellent reliable engine, but if that’s the case then who cares if they also put it in a Chevy? There are enough other ways to distinguish a Cadillac as a Cadillac. Why take a step backward (in terms of reliability) just to have something “unique”? But don’t blame the DTS for that.
In fact, by the time the DTS had come along, the Northstar had become much more reliable. So the case could be made that the DTS was the best Northstar bearing Cadillac, yet some on this board want to blame the DTS for the Northstar, and use it as “proof” that Cadillac should never again make a large comfortable riding, FWD car like the DTS. Again if you go back to my list of “Cadillac core values”, I did not list highly complex or unique engines as one of those values. I did list reliability as one of the values. So what’s happening here is that the DTS is being knocked for an alleged problem that came from trying to imitate German values, rather than sticking to Cadillac values.
Now do I think the DTS should be made forever? Of course not, it served its purpose very well in its time, sold extremely well until it went very long without an update (beyond putting a shark fin antenna on top and adding navigation to the premium model). It was eventually long in the tooth (especially in terms of styling), neglected by Cadillac for a serious update and advertising. Even then, sales surpassed the CT6 thus far, even in the worst year.
But there’s no reason Cadillac couldn’t do well with a modern model that emulated the virtues of the DTS. Personally I’m fine with a plastic dashboard, but there’s no reason that can’t be replaced (if only to please the professional auto writer fetishists). You don’t like the overly complex Northstar? Fine, that was never a Cadillac core value anyway. The 4 speed hydramatic works beautifully, I’d be in favor of keeping that vs. an unreliable “more gears for more gears sake” shifter. But I recognize that the public tends to think more is better, so for marketing purposes (only) they might have to go for more gears – or try to sell the publicly on reliability vs. needless complexity.
I’d also give the replacement DTS a more modern look, but still classic angular Cadillac/American styling – much like the current Cadillac styling (not the upcoming JDN/German styling of the XT4 and beyond). I’d probably give it a liftback, perhaps similar to the Escala concept, the Audi A7, and Tesla Model S, but a bit more angular to fit Cadillac. I’d make the digital speedometer bigger and centered, more like current Cadillacs. I’d give it a rear view camera and 360* view, neither of which were on any version of the DTS. I might give it a panoramic sunroof, although the DTS sunroof was very well positioned, unlike some sunroofs that are too far back for the driver. And while I like the Bose system in mine, it could be even better, more toward the Bose Panaray of the CT6.
So the DTS/XTS didn’t have to die IMO, and the death of the XTS will not IMO increase sales of other Cadillac sedans overall (i.e. maybe the others get a tiny increase due to the absence of the XTS choice, from Cadillac loyalists, but it won’t be much if anything). And the arguments that the DTS is not the type of car Cadillac should build, because of the Northstar or the plastic dashboard, get serious – those are arguments over execution, not concept.
Drew,
I stopped by the dealer today with a quick question. I stepped into the showroom. I couldn’t tell the CT6 from the XTS from the side. If it was in my rear view mirror I may recognize the front clip on the CT6. I like the XTS. Probably should have bought one instead of the car I have.
I don’t know why anyone would have a problem with your DTS. You enjoy it and that’s all that matters.
I’ll probably be dispatched to Buick now because of this post. lol
Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen recently said that it would be difficult to build a Cadillac that can compete against Tesla without going broke and this says that de Nysschen isn’t the right man for Cadillac, one has to think Cadillac could achieve this through the integration of the CT6 which has a base price of about $60K and the Chevrolet Bolt that is priced at about $37K; Cadillac could sell their CT-E for about $120K and not lose money.