Global automakers are concerned over the NEV (new energy vehicle) targets recently set forth by the Chinese government.
Combating air pollution, China has set proposed NEV standards that mandate for at least a fifth of auto sales be comprised of electric and plug-in hybrid cars by 2025. But carmakers worry that such objectives will be tough to meet and would hinder their business, especially given that the government will cut back subsidies on new vehicle purchases by 2020. These incentives have been instrumental in supporting the growth of the industry.
Global automakers have urged China to delay and/or soften the planned quotas for NEVs as early as July.
Today at a company gathering in Shanghai, General Motors Chairman and CEO Mary Barra announced that the mandated limits will require government support and that customer demand should be driving the switch to NEVs rather than government initiatives.
“It’s best when, instead of being mandated, customers are choosing the technology because it meets their needs”, said Barra, while adding that GM will work to “the timetable of governments”, but that consumers also needed to be convinced.
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My son and a bunch of his Millennial friends are spending the weekend at the farm and are now having after dinner drinks, I just read this to them and got a unanimous thumbs down and unrepeatable comments. Best one… “F- – king dinosaur brained idiot(Barra) chooses stock holders and profit over planet.” Sums up my thoughts, also.
Get a clue. Rapacious corporations are going to have it tough dealing with this generation. And, they want electric vehicles and will be buying them when the price point and range, converge.
So… according to Millenials, the job of corporations and their leaders is to save the planet… not to make profits.
I wonder what kinds of planet-saving jobs these Millennials.
I also wonder whether or not they have heard of the Chevrolet Volt or Bolt EV, or whether they are aware that every Cadillac will have an electrified variant starting next year.
PS: this isn’t a Barra thing. I would be willing to bet that whatever she’s saying also reflects the sentiment of leaders of all other automakers, including Tesla.
Reg; “the job of corporations and their leaders is to save the plant…” _ Alex, that is all of job. Corporations can’t sell cars when the economy is in decline or in chaos due to the accelerating effects of global warming.
Reg; ‘Profit’ _ Profit isn’t evil, unless it is Martin Shkreli type of profit or profit derived from misleading information/claims that have a negative effect on persons and society. I have been in business since I was twelve years old. These millennial’s visiting this weekend, almost to a person, have businesses or start-ups gaining traction due to finally being profitable. All of these young men’s businesses take the environment into consideration, it is part of their business model.
Reg; “they have heard of the Chevrolet Volt or Bolt EV” _ Your talking millennials, the most connected and envirionmentally aware generation in history since the cavemen. EV’s are discussed by them with great interest and in informed detail. The problem, is that most can only afford vehicles in the $15-$20,000 range, not in the $35-$135,000 range.
Reg; “this isn’t a Barra thing” _ No, it logically isn’t, but Barra was quoted in your article and is representative of that type of corporate mind set that will cause enduring negative effects on our environment.
Concerns about the environment are probably like pissing into the wind. Humans are just too selfish, greedy, inconsiderate, and careless to mount any kind of effective effort to counter our increasingly challenging environmental situation. So it’s likely we will drive this environment over the edge and us with it.. Sorry grand kids, our wants, needs, we were more important then you. Earth will abide and maybe some humans will survive, but corporations led by Barra types will no longer exist. So much for long range corporate viability and profit.
The future for all of us, you, me, Barra, and corporations, is a stable environment.
And by the way, Alex, I concur with you on most of your opinions, articles and responses. And with this article, your just reporting and not taking obvious position except in your response.
Tre – I wasn’t necessarily disagreeing with you, more like playing devil’s advocate.
Now, if we are to assume for the sake of this conversation that climate change is taking place as a result of humans, then I feel responsible to communicate the following:
1. The job of corporations is to make profit for their shareholders and stakeholders. This is an institutional arrangement that has been well established for centuries.
We can go back and forth all day regarding ethics and whether or not it is ethical to sell one product or another… but at the end of the day, it’s not carmakers that are the “problem” as it relates to global pollution and/or the assumed climate change. The issue is with consumers (that Millennials are part of), and the fact that they continue buying vehicles that run on fossil fuels… and only a small fraction is interested in new energy vehicles. And even so, cars with ICEs are far from being the primary source of pollution.
2. “These millennial’s visiting this weekend, almost to a person, have businesses or start-ups gaining traction due to finally being profitable. All of these young men’s businesses take the environment into consideration, it is part of their business model.”
It’s one thing to run a start-up that is loss-making or loss-making lingering on profitability. It’s a totally different “thing” to run a multi-billion corporation with over a million people within the entire ecosystem that depend on you and your establishment.
So the problem is not with Barra or other automotive leaders. The problems is not with the industry. The problem, as I just mentioned, is with the populous at large continuing to show very little interest in new energy vehicles. So perhaps these Millennials should look at starting firms that educates the masses… rather than disparaging and critiquing a person who is doing her job exceptionally well, and about whom they probably know very little about, as well as the company that she is in charge of. Sure, they probably know the basic facts communicated in headlines… but I wonder if they truly know the details.
3. “Your talking millennials, the most connected and envirionmentally aware generation in history since the cavemen. EV’s are discussed by them with great interest and in informed detail. The problem, is that most can only afford vehicles in the $15-$20,000 range, not in the $35-$135,000 range.”
That’s the thing! “Most connected” does not mean “most well-informed”. I am part of the generation in question, and many of my peers are very connected on various social networks. But they lack profusely when it comes time to actual information or knowledge. That’s been my experience with those in my generation, and it’s a shame, really.
4. “No, it logically isn’t, but Barra was quoted in your article and is representative of that type of corporate mind set that will cause enduring negative effects on our environment.”
The mind-set that is being conveyed in the article is that of a responsible business person who understands that lofty goals that move a society do not take place overnight, as China apparently wants it to work. Instead, it’s a gradual change that takes place over the course of years if not decades. We are currently at the beginning of that course.
The automotive leaders in question (Barra included) are not doing anything that should merit a critique. Instead, they’re simply asking the government (in this case, of China) to approach the topic with rationality and to support the move from ICEs to EVs with federal funds and to relax the timeline a bit, because it’s simply not realistic.
Ultimately, it’s one thing to play armchair quarterback(s) and disparage a very good leader while drinking it up. It would seem that the person who made the comment in your original article…
Best one… “F- – king dinosaur brained idiot(Barra) chooses stock holders and profit over planet.”
… does not fully grasp what it takes to change 100+ years of infrastructure and societal habits.
Again, no one is resisting the transition to EVs… especially not GM or Barra. The Bolt was her project — which is something that the individual making the comment above probably doesn’t know. But the transition must take place in a responsible manner and it must be driven by consumer demand… which is currently not the case.
Alex–It doesn’t matter whether it is a corporation’s job to save the planet even though it’s obvious that firms should act in an ethical manner.
What really matters is that Barra didn’t see this China action coming. A chief motivation behind the Opel sale was the coming of strict EU regulations. It seems that GM never considered the possibility of China doing the same or for that matter the US in 2020 under a new Democratic administration.
Opel planned on possibly going all electric which with the company’s 8,000 engineers would have been of great help.
Steve,
Is GM not acting in “an ethical manner”? It sells half of all non-luxury EVs in the U.S… its factories are “green” on various levels, whether it be power consumption, recycling or zero waste, habitat maintenance, etc.
And as for Barra not seeing this action coming… that’s not entirely accurate. THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY didn’t see it coming.
Furthermore, the Opel sale wasn’t truly motivated by strict EU regs… despite that being GM’s talking point. Somehow, every other global automaker (including VAG, Daimler, BMW, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar-Land Rover and others) can make the new regulations work in Europe and in other regions, and GM/Opel can’t? Of course not. Heck, Opel was doing just fine (and was actually ahead of most rivals) as it relates to meeting regulations, present and future.
The problem was GM didn’t have the scale with Opel to continue investing to meet the regulations while turning a loss. Had they been selling 10,000 cars more a month across the region, it would have been fine. But GM just wasn’t interested in continuing to fight an uphill battle in that market… at least not in the way it was positioned currently with the manufacturing bases. Hence the pullout.
Of the 8,000 Opel engineers, half are technical designers and most are not well versed in electrification, as is the case with those working at the GM Tech Center at Warren. A small portion of the 8,000 would actually have been able to work on EVs. Besides, GM had no problem bringing to market a global electric vehicle like the Bolt EV without the input or assistance of Russelsheim. And the input that Opel did have definitely didn’t require 8,000 people.
The price will never converge with out profits and the income from Trucks and SUV models.
Someone and something has to pay for it.
We should take kids like this to live in a third world country to see what it is like to not be American or Canadian.
When they can not find safe water or food and live daily with the treat of illness this can make some see things as they really are.
You were just lucky some of them did not find your farm offensive for keeping captive animals or using anything to protect the crops. This goes deeper than just electric cars.
It is happening!!:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/942e85d78e3f704b2cd7b3e4bf62d4851fd6c9176c524034c9ce9388c95bf077.jpg
I’m choking on my words a little here; but if that’s what the Chinese President actually said (some finer points do get lost in translation), the guy’s a genius.
Imposing the technical paradigm shift on Chinese manufacturers, rather than waiting for the consumer market to shift, will undoubtedly give them an edge. Although Tesla might have something to say about “technical excellence and advantage”.
Correct, fleet man. This is the kind of leadership I would like to see coming from the White House and Congress here in the US.
Many of these young people have had everything given and little earned. They also have been brain washed that all coperations are bad and that the planet can not regenerate itself at a much greater rate than they believe.
The fact is both coexist and have to otherwise you can’t sustain the level of living, development or Starbucks.
Here is the problem electric cars are only part way there. There is still work to do and it is paid for by the profits of the pick up trucks and SUV models. The way foward is still to improve charge times lower cost and add range.
Most of these young people never spent Much time in the real world be it working a real job or even raising chickens.
We should be good stewards but that does not preclude us from still living in this world and making profits.
The bottom line is someone has to pay for it with profits from a commodity as the goverment can not pay for it all.
What is amazing how the more advanced we get people no longer can think for themselves and believe everything on the web and what ever agenda they are pushing.
The bottom line is there is a growing element wanting to take our country out and they are becoming a part of it.
Scott, your assumptions and response/opinions are so typical. You have no idea/clue about these young men/persons or the activities on my farm. But you feel you can make informed comments and proffer opinions regarding them and my farm. You shouldn’t project your own ideas and opinions and make specious comments about people you don’t know. Try a little introspection before making lame comments.
And as far as critical thinking, your judgemental comments on display here show none of that rare commodity.
Lets take a few of your critical comments.
These kids didn’t grow up in rich families.
Most of the young men here are MBA or engineering graduates.
All have traveled in the third world and some have volunteered their services in the third world.
These young men are in their late twenties and early thirties, have traveled extensively on their own dime, worked jobs to get through school, and in a quick poll, only one has a student loan, and worked jobs to get start-up money for their business. They know what work is and what it takes to reach goals and sustain a business, and are grounded and, though, to a person, are very intelligent, don’t think they are the smartest guys in the room. These are nice kids, young men who care.
They work hard, daily, 24/7, and come to the farm on too rare an occasion to relax and discuss ideas and have a little fun and leave here rejuvenated and energized. They are concerned about their future and yours. They are like some from my generation, who worked and gave considerable effort in the 60’s/70’s to try make the world better place.
And by the way, the only captive animals on this farm are my two dogs, who almost never leave my side. We grow trees and landscape plants, build hot rods, restore cars, convert cars to electric power, and do chassis mods and install performance engines into mostly ‘F’ bodies and Miata’s and the occasional, BMW, RX7, Porsche, and Corvette. But most of all we try to have fun.
Well I think I am more than qualified as I live in the real world unlike yours.
The problem with your critical thinking is it lack common sense which is a rare commodity with many of the youth of today.
The more advanced we get the worse each generation gets anymore.
First what does money have to do with this? I never brought in how much money they have or made.
Good they are getting educated but will they fibs do jobs with their critical thinking of killings company profits. You do know no profit = no new hire engineers. Now that is critical.
Good the have been overseas. Too bad they don’t understand the big picture of the real world.
The major flaw in capitalization is it is not a level playing field but opportunity is there. In socialism it is a level playing field of misery and lack of opportunity to advance.
It is good they have good work ethics as that is of more value than anything they could have to advance in life.
I worked my way through school six days a week and paid my own way. More peop,e should do it vs complaining that some one else should pay for it.
You have a tree farm not a farm. I assume you are against raising livestock? That is very 60’s.
Here is what I deal with most times with the younger gen.
Many not all hate to show up to work. They hate it so much they often lose their jobs for missing too much time. They have generous sick and vacation time and still blow it. One married with a kid would stay home to play video games. He made good money as a interperitor.
I have one that spent over $100k to get an art degree to find out there is no money in it. She got ,
Married and had several kids and with her husbands loan now live in a camper on her parents property.
These are not dumb people but they lack common sense.
I have other lose their jobs with drug test failures. Many never get hired because of arrest records and failed background check due to the secure nature of the jobs.
They think it is cool getting those flame tattoos on the arms or their mow hawks but wonder why they get passed over for jobs that they have to go places and represent the company.
Most come from homes with one parent that is not the best example but the only one they had. They never got the guidance needed or discipline needed to not only make their life better but the world better by not being a burden.
If people want to make the world better we all need to first start with ourselves. Be responsible for you actions, being disciplined, work in your life to be the best you can be and that places you to were you can help others.
The best example is the Asian families that have come here in the 70’s. they came with nothing but most were solid core families of several generations. The git their educations, the started businesses, the take care of their old, they hold to their religions, they show pride in their work and work very hard to not fail.
Yet we have people here that expect someone else to do it all for them. We could as a society learn a lot from the Asians and how they live their lives. Many other societies were like this but they lost it over the years.
As for the world today many have made science their religion. Well sometimes that works but many times many scientist are no better than Jim Baker or Jimmy Swigert.
Like doctors and mechanics some scientist are great but others are total quakes. They al, are not beyond dispute. Also much of what the claim now will be found you be much different 5o years from now. They make claims as fact when often it is only a theory. The good ones admit this the others are just keeping their funding alive as if they disprove their claims they lose the funding.
The one thing many fail to be today is honest the web has proven to be so slanted or down right lies. Yet people believe it because I saw it on the web and there was a picture.
Also there is a move to damage the United States to make us fall in with a one world order. Sorry but we should always retain the rights to make our own decisions not the UN or anyone else for us.
And don’t say we have not done the world any good. Yes we have made mistakes but generally we have domemuch more good in the world and bailed out more countries and people than anyone else.
Imagine if we did not join the war in Europe a let Hitler continue his acts. Imagine if we did not come up with so many cures and shared them globally.
Who else sends their military to deliver food water and aid to countries that may not like us but they were in need after a disaster
The bottom line is there is always going to be good and evil on this planet. We can do all we can but there will always be a battle or those trying to take advantage of the situation.
Forcing technologies on people when they are not fully there and to the point companies can make money as they are now is a foolish move.
The move to electric will still take time and investment and it needs to be measured and adjusted based on advancement. Again common sense. Banning ICE and forcing them out before we are ready will just make life more difficult and much more expensive for the average person.
Crittical thinking is fine but without common sense it is worthless.
Let’s face it if electric cars were to where they need to be there would be no need to ban anything as the best and most affordible products sell themselves.
The bottom line is we still need faster and more plentiful charging. Cheaper cars with more range.
Electric cars require many to change their life styles and that is a major issure till it is resolved.
The day an electric car can be charged in the time to fill a tank and cost the same to buy as any other car of equal size and be able to be charges anywhere then people will make the Change on their own.
The better products always rise to the top inferior have to be regulated in people.
Again critical common sense.
I’m not worried. Electric drive is a wonderful thing that will take care of itself as technology continues to improve. Government mandates, whether from China or the current jump-starting tax incentives, have gotten and will keep momentum going in the face of low gas prices. Just as solar is entering its heyday where no one will even consider a new coal plant, we’re heading towards a tipping point where electric vehicles will be considered just another flavor of “normal” vehicles.
Those lazy good-for-nothing young people (has any generation not had that affliction?) will come of age in a world where attitudes will have changed and people will buy electric cars without any discrimination. They will enjoy their performance and environmental benefits, while marveling that they still remember going to the gas station as kids, and the loud blare of a defective muffler.
General Motors isn’t in a situation as they were before when building fuel efficient cars was a mystery as they’re among the leaders in EV by having built one of the first mass production electric vehicles; thus, GM should take the next step and use the advance engineering techniques displayed in the past couple of years in vehicles like the Cadillac CT6 which is a thousand pounds lighter than similar size vehicles and integrate them with the latest in battery technology as GM has a 5-7 year advantage as they can and should begin building electric coupes, sedans and CUVs ahead of the competition from Europe.
Half of all new vehicles designed by General Motors needs to be either zero emission fuel cell or an electric vehicle as while US sales of EV is growing, one has to think the market will explode especially as it gets closer to the 2025 calendar year and European countries begin moving towards Electric Vehicle production as well; General Motors can’t let this opportunity slip by as the old Elvis song goes.. ‘it’s now or never.’
Gm has a new dedicated all electric chassis being build right now, for all different models coming up some time next year or so. These next year generation Cadillac CT6 will be all electric with a dedicated chassis and many more models too come.
Like most regulations these new ones from China will more than likely get pushed back to help accommidate the Automakers by their lobbyists in government .
What I haven’t seen is just how do these young people think their electric cars charging station get their power . From power plants that either use coal or natural gas to generate the power needed for the electricity . they still have smoke stacks that are pumping pollution into the air that we breath .
It’s also not a new idea to clean-up our enviroment , look at Los Angeles . Back in the 1970’s the air quality was so bad that new regulations were but in place to correct it . This generation that helped change this was the Baby Boomers , so the Millenials are not the first generation to be concerned with our planet or our drinking water or the polluted rivers or the ozone level .
If GM is in such a good place to comply with Chinas new regulations why is she so concerned ( as other manufacturers ) about being able to comply thus watching their profits take a huge hit because they didn’t see this coming . It’s almost on par with the gas shortages in the 70’s all over again . Car companies selling big vehicles and now this time it’s not the Middle East turning off the spigget , it’s the Chinese forcing a change that we are not ready for .
I would be willing to bet that their car companies are ready for this and will do substantial damage to our auto companies and economy by gearing up to out sell everyone with their home grown vehicles that we have benn showing them how to mass produce cars at a profit .
GM may have the capability to mass produce EV’s but their isn’t much profit in it for them because it’s expensive to produce those type of cars . They loose money selling the V/Bolt’s , profit is still king , not the enviroment .
Being concerned about Mother Earth has been a concern for decades that’s why we have EPA rules , less spray cans and more pump type sprayers , catalytic controls on our exhaust systems etc……
If it’s a decision between making a profit or worrying about the enviromental cost profit wins everytime .
Full size trucks/ commercial trucks will have hydrogen fuel cell electric drivetrain.
Buick all electric crossover on dedicated chassis coming up next year and next generation Cadillac CT6 all electric dedicated chassis coming up next year and more will come.
The truth is on this is China is doing this more to extort control over import companies.
They are letting them know who the boss is and letting them know the control the market not the automakers.
Let’s face it China has a long history of not doing a thing about the environment and the have many more major concerns than cars.
This was a political business move.
Many automakers are reluctant to sell electric cars in china as they are required to share all the technical property used in product sold there.
In other words GM has been reluctant to share their technology on many things and this could force them to do so in selling cars there.