This video deserves a Michael Buffer-style fight announcement: “Let’s get ready to rumble!”
In the right corner lane, we have a second-gen Cadillac CTS-V coupe with a built LSX and a massive blower under the hood, good for 850 horsepower at the wheels on E85 fuel. The CTS-V is also equipped with an 8-speed automatic and super-sticky Mickey Thompson slicks.
And on the left, we have an all-wheel drive Tesla Model S P100D set to Ludicrous mode, pumping out 588 horsepower and 910 lb-ft of torque to the wheels. With all that torque, you know this thing pulls like a rocket.
We don’t want to give anything away, so go ahead and click play to see which of these monstrously-powerful cars comes out on top. Ford fans will want to stick around past the end of the Cadillac/Tesla match-up, as the latter car goes on to race a 700-horsepower Mustang later in the video.
Comments
That is a fun bit of nonsense.
But how good is that Tesla in the snow?
What is the Battery life again?
Wait, can I remind you that, that Tesla, has superior AWD compared to its competitors. Because it has an electric drive train, it can send up to 100% of power to either the front or rear wheels. An ICE can’t do that. The battery life? Max 335miles, with temperature as a variable that affects Driving Range. Very much similar to cold temperatures affecting MPG and performance in the traditional ICE. Your argument whether serious, or non jokingly, is invalid. Need I remind you, that the transmission will go out in the CTS, much before one in a Electric Vehicle will? Also, the average electricity cost in America is 18¢/kWh? 18¢/100kWh = $18 to charge a P100D or 100D. Much cheaper than filling a CTS with Premium Unleaded. Anyone who argues that ICE’s are superior, are inferior people. The only comparison that EV’s lack is Price Points. Which the ICE beats it at. EV’s will be just as leveraged in that aspect by 2025. I wish you all the best, because I’m going to pass you in a damn Model 3, that has an electric drivetrain, which you’ll say is unreliable and junk, while you’re driving a ‘Souped’ up, ICE. Lol. I’m laughing now actually.
Zach C, one other factor regarding the Tesla cost to operate is the replacement battery. The last I saw, for the Model S they recommend a new battery every 8 years, and the last replacement cost I saw was $12,000 for that battery (assume no disposal cost or installation charge).
So let’s say you drive the Tesla 13.5k miles per year (the annual US average), which is about 37 miles/day. The cost for the battery alone then would be $1500/year, and in this case 9 cents/mile. If a car with an ICE is getting 20 mpg, then a battery which costs 9 cents/mile is the equivalent of $1.80 per gallon – and that’s on top of the $18 “fill up” charge that you estimate.
Of course the first 8 years of battery life with a Tesla are “free”, the price of a replacement battery could be much lower by then, and someone could drive a lot more or less than 13.5k/year, but you can see it’s not just about the cost of electricity.
Dear Drew, I have not found anywhere where Tesla recommends the Model S battery be replaced every 8 years. The warranty is for 8 years or unlimited miles. But that does not mean Tesla recommends you have the battery replaced after 8 years. The old Tesla Roadster from 2008 experienced a loss of 15% capacity after 100,000 miles, but battery technology has come a long way since then. The latest data on Tesla’s Model S battery degradation looks much better. You assumed that the typical driver will travel 108,000 over an 8 year period (13,500 x 8). But the latest data is showing that Tesla Model S owners are only experiencing about a 6% loss of capacity after 200,000 miles of driving. That is not over an 8 year period but the data looks very promising. Also, you assume that an owner of a Tesla car would hold onto the car for longer than 8 years instead of just buying a new car. If the Tesla car is still working perfectly, except for the battery, after 8 years and the Tesla owner just replaces the battery for $12,000 that is a lot less than buying a whole new car. If the Volt is any indication, GM’s EV battery life looks very promising as Volt owners are experiencing very little degradation after 5 to 6 years on the road indicating that GM knows how to warm and cool it’s batteries for long life. No Volt batteries have had to be replaced due to capacity degradation. And finally a Chevy Bolt Owner “News Coulomb” from YouTube claims that after 7 months and 20,000 miles he has not experienced any capacity loss. So your cost analysis may not hold up, but only time will tell how well today’s batteries will hold up.
Sources:
“Zero Battery Degradation Replacements Giving Chevy Volts an Edge” by by Jon LeSage August 12, 2016 – hybridcars dot com
“Tesla Roadster Battery Life Study: 85 Percent Capacity After 100,000 Miles” By Jim Motavalli · July 16, 2013 – plugincars dot com
“Tesla battery degradation analysis reveals how long a battery might last” By Kyle Posted on April 13, 2017 – teslarati dot com
“Tesla Model S battery life: what the data show so far” by John Voelcker Apr 27, 2017 – greencarreports dot com
“News Coloumb” video on YouTube titled “Chevy Bolt EV 20,000 Mile Update and Baker, CA EVgo Progress”
Thanks dude.
Jeff, great points – but it’s time that matters more for the battery life, not miles. That’s why Tesla gives an 8 year warranty with an unlimited number of miles. No one really knows how long the battery will last, since they have not been making the Telsa Model S long enough for the data to extend that far.
Even if the battery lasts for 12 years instead of 8, that would be an extra $1.20/”gallon equivalent” in battery cost to “fill up” for an average driver doing the 13.5k miles that average US drivers do. And if you go by the warranty, you can only count on 8 years. I’m not against battery driven cars, but you have to factor “all in” costs in some way. I do hope that the US government will stop subsidizing battery-driven cars soon; if the technology is so great and affordable, they should not need the tax subsidy.
Hi Drew, You’re right, we really don’t know how long these batteries are really going to last. But here is another fact to consider, the lithium ion battery in my Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 camera is now 11 years old and is still working perfectly and has only lost about 20% of it’s capacity, I used to get about 5 hours on a charge and now I get about 4 hours and that is 2006 battery technology. Also, I don’t think you took into account the cost of maintenance of an ICE car vs an electric car. In theory experts have said that electric cars should require less maintenance than an ICE car because they have less moving parts but again it’s too soon for enough data on that. Also, regenerative breaking takes away a lot of wear on the physical breaks in an electric car. I had to have the brakes pads on my 2005 Equinox replaced and the rotors resurfaced after 4 years. Consumer Reports say today’s ICE cars have an average life expectancy of 11 years compared to 8 years in 1995. How long will the average life expectancy of an electric car be has yet to be determined.
Jeff, yes – great observation that electric cars might require less maintenance/repalr than ICE cars, in terms of the non-battery power plant. My point was that the battery life could be considered part of the “fuel” costs.
It will be interesting to see what the total cost of ownership will be, with no government tax credit. It’s possible that at some point electric cars will be cheaper to own and operate than ICE cars on an apples-to-apples basis. Right now, as others have observed, people don’t own Teslas to save money over ICE cars.
Hi Drew, Yes, I do see your point about considering the battery as part of the fuel cost since the equivalent ICE car part would be the cost of the fuel tank which is minimal compared to the battery of an electric car. I agree, today people don’t buy an electric car to save money during the life of the car. The reasons I bought a Chevy Bolt EV was because:
1. I’m reducing CO2 emissions based on the Union of Concerned Scientists total carbon cost (this includes carbon emitted by the power plants, manufacturing, etc.) compared to an ICE car or a hybrid car. Yes, whether other people believe it or not, I do think, based on the data, that man made climate change is real.
2. I love the ride, it’s so smooth, quiet and peppy.
3. It rides high like a crossover
4. It’s got a long enough range for me to get to everywhere I want to go, especially now that the Nevada Electric Highway project will be completed next year.
5. I never have to go to a smelly gas station again or smell the exhaust in my garage. I just hate getting gas at a gas station.
6. And many more features that come with the Premier edition and the Driver Convenience Package II that are only available in higher end Cadillacs.
I’m sure the cost of electric cars will come down as mass production of the batteries increase and their technology improves. Lithium mining and rare earth mining need to increase as well to help reduce the price of the battery and the motor magnets. The Union of Concerned Scientists have also taken that consideration in their total CO2 lifecycle output of electric cars compared to ICE cars (Source: “Cleaner Cars from Cradle to Grave (2015)” – ucsusa org
Jeff, congrats on having a premier edition Bolt. Sounds like a nice car for the reasons you mentioned, plus It has a substantial carrying capacity in a small footprint.
I’d also add one more thing, an electric car that you “fill” at home would save time vs. going to gas stations. And who knows about the fumes, there was a theory that crime in the US declined after lead was removed from gasoline. I’m not sure I believe that in terms of cause and effect, but there was some coinciding. Maybe breathing gasoline fumes in general is not good for our mental health, who knows.
BTW, I don’t totally agree on climate change, yes there’s climate change going on and yes some of it is man-made, but its hard to know how much is man-made. Also I have read that as the atmosphere becomes saturated with CO2, the effect on temperature change decreases with each additional unit, some have compared this with a logarithmic scale in terms of the effect. But if we can cut down on man-made C02, that’s not a bad thing at all.
I do think that electric cars could be very beneficial overall, though I think we’ll still have ICE for many years to come, probably forever. Costs are still coming down with electrics, but IMO they will need to prove themselves to be economically and environmentally competitive with ICE.
Mining is of great interest to me, and you’ve identified that demand for lithium will almost certainly increase substantially. There is an NYSE stock, symbol SQM, which is based in Chile and is strongly involved in lithium mining. Unfortunately this is probably not the ideal time to buy it based on price, it was under $13/share about a year and a half ago, and it’s around $56/share now. And mining can have its own environmental concerns, but if properly managed can be of great benefit to the public.
You can ask the Norwegians who’ve bought a Model S how it handles the snow. They’ll likely tell you that safely driving any car in the winter is dependent on the quality of your snow tires, not the cars’ powertrain.
Why are they drag racing on a public road? With all the many drag strips and motor courses available this is wrong.
Now that GM has the Chevy Bolt EV which I own and love, I would love to see Cadillac come out with an all-electric only luxury car with an extra long range 120kW battery that would compete with the Tesla Model S 100D with it’s 100kW battery. And Cadillac, please make it a four door, not a coupe. Also come out with an all-electric luxury SUV to compete with the Tesla Model X. Cadillac is way behind Tesla with no plans for an all-electric only car or SUV that I know of. Wake up Cadillac and smell the green electrons.
They could if they wanted to. The problem with GM is that sometimes they let Political Correctness get the best of them. IE their Deisel V8, Could have done it, should have listened to Cummins and others that know what they are talking about, but NO, Had to be Diesel Compression Ignition. Heads cracked, because they put bigger valves in, Stretched the head bolts, cracked the rockers, all sorts of stupid things. Saved money by not drilling out the oil galleries, and the soot from the Diesel seized the oil rings, and wore out the cylinders. They could have pulled it off and had a winner.
I owned one of those, I ran Mobil One in mine for 140,000 ran like a top. had the engine rebuilt, figuring it would run another 140, and it was all done, lasted a month.
GM could make an Electric, or a Hybrid, and make a killer one if they stop trying to be all things to all people.
They have to decide if they want to make it an efficient, or a race car.
The ELR was the right idea, but the engine or motor was too small. The economy was terrible.
They could make an Electric with a constant speed, easy to control for emissions and economy, let the motors do the work.
This technology has been around for longer than I have.
Restyle an XTS body, and put it in there. Battery in the rear, and Front. They have had the right batteries for some 40 years now sitting on the shelf. Unused.
It would just take a command decision to get it done.
I would love to see it.
Still trying to wrap my head around why do people who can afford a $100k electric give a crap that gas cost $3 a gallon. How about produce electric car that cost $10K so people who could really need a electric car benefits. Like back in the day when cars in America where selling only to the rich and henry ford sold them to the masses so all people could afford a car. I think tesla are here for rich people to feel accomplished much like a Bugatti. But still those cars are not saving the environment since they still require power from coal factories etc.
That’s Easy. That is how they got the money. Probably why they have it, and you don’t.
I learned a long time ago, most people love their money more than they love their families or anything else.
The factory gives out the dealer cost on everything, the customers come in and want a price below that.
To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge: It is so easy for Congress to spend the Public’s money. It Never seems to belong to anyone….