Bose may not be the premium name Cadillac wants to attach itself with for its future vehicles. After a tremendous amount of work to promote the Bose Panaray system, featured as optional equipment in the Cadillac CT6 sedan, General Motors’ luxury division may be poised to tap Harman for audio systems.
The news comes from AutoGuide in the same report that all but confirms the future Cadillac ATS and future Cadillac CTS successors will retain a rear-wheel drive layout. Specifically, a job description from Lisa Graf, a Senior Project Manager at Harman International, may have spoiled the news.
On her personal LinkedIn page, Graf describes her current position as “the senior program manager on the General Motors E2UL, A2SL and A2LL amplifier program and Faraday Futures speakers.” We detailed in our previous report that the E2UL, A2SL and A2LL codenames all refer to future Cadillacs. The A2SL and A2LL, specifically, refers to smaller and larger Cadillac sedans—ATS and CTS replacements. The E2UL is more than likely the Cadillac XT4.
This leads us to believe Cadillacs two new sedans and its new crossover will each feature audio from Harman rather than Bose. Cadillac’s main rivals have each tapped more premium audio systems that fall under the Harman International portfolio. Should this be the case, Harman audio may make its debut with the 2018 or 2019 Cadillac XT4, which is set to debut next year.
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Please do!!
Looks like somebody at GM found a better deal!
Bose is not the name it used to be.
Boses is available in a Chevy but Harman is not.
It is important to put in differences between Cadillac and the other lesser divisions.
The tricky thing about the Bose name is that it might be the best-known and highest regarded name in audio to the general public, yet it’s derided by self-described “audiophiles” as being well-marketed but overpriced and underwhelming, in terms of the best home stereo equipment. That’s a little unfair, when pushed the audiophiles will say that Bose has some “ok” and even “interesting” products, but they still feel that you can do significantly better for the money. But the problem for Cadillac is that the audio brands which may be well-known to audiophiles as very high quality, are generally unknown to the general public, even to the average luxury car buyer.
Another tricky thing is that there seems to be little connection between premium car audio and the home versions of that same brand. You really have to hear the stereo for yourself, though obviously you’d expect the premium audio for any luxury car to sound better than the premium audio in a more plebian car. What happens though is that car audio brands may help develop or approve of the premium system in a particular car, but they don’t always make the components themselves. So at some point, while the system design and components do matter, it’s not easy to know how a car audio system will sound compared to another, simply by looking at the brand.
Among home audio enthusiasts, the name Harman (aka “Harman Kardon”) does rank higher than Bose. For the general public, not necessarily. And even Harman is considered “mid fi” to true audio snobs. Interestingly the name “Mark Levinson” ranks much higher than Harman or Bose among home audiophiles, and there are Mark Levinson branded car stereos (in Lexus). Yet the general public is much less aware of the Mark Levinson name than Bose or Harman. Also interesting is that the Mark Levinson name is now owned by Harman, so it’s possible that Cadillac could have done a deal to get that name on their premium stereos, unless they have an exclusive deal with Lexus (quite possible).
In the end, if the 34 speaker Panaray system is well-designed and uses quality components, it’s not going to sound any better whether the badge says Bose, Harman, Mark Levinson, or something else. But Cadillac might be smart to try a different name for their premium audio, if they think that home audiophiles are making up a significant percentage of luxury car buyers now. Or maybe it was a case where Bose wanted more money to license their name than Harman wanted, who knows. But I’m guessing that some audio snob got to Cadillac upper management and told them that the Bose name doesn’t quite cut it, among their kind.
Excellent analysis Drew!
Harman has owned Mark Levinson since 1990, this is not new.
Harman > Bose. My 11 Regal had a Harman system. I got so many compliments on how well it sounded. It was a nice system!
Tyler, I agree that Harman has a better reputation among audiophiles than Bose, and I tested the Harman premium system in the Buick Lacrosse (prior generation) and thought it sounded slightly better than the Bose in my DTS. I also thought the “THX Ultra II” system in the Lincoln MKZ sounded somewhat better than either one, but I’m happiest in the DTS overall as a car.
I’m still not convinced though that the choice of premium brands make a big difference in cars, as compared with home stereo. You do have to hear the system to know how it will sound. But yes Harman seems to have done a very nice job equipping Buicks.
I’d rather hear the sound of my 600 hp 383! That being said this change has zero to do with sound quality, or brand, this has to do with money! Harmon undercut bose so they get the contract it’s that simple.
I agree with the statement that the 34 speaker bose system will sound just as good as the new Harmon system
Like music to my ears! (No pun intended) The Bose audio brand, while good, has always been inferior to the Harman Audio products! There’s a reason why all the top auto companies use the Harman family of sound systems! This is one more way GM can better offer more quality and product separation for the Cadillac brand!
My wife’s Benz has a Harmon audio system. It’s okay at best. The Bose system in my 2016 2500HD LTZ sounded better.
I am well versed in high end home audio, having sold a brand that most have never heard of but competes with the likes of B&W, Snell, Dynaudio, Focal, Martin Logan, Meridian et all. That brand is Legacy Audio. In the high end audio world, Bose is seen as a joke. Great brand recognition and better than mainstream (Polk, Def Tech) sound quality but nothing really special. “No highs – no lows = must be Bose” is the tag line.
Given the crap source material (MP3s and other compressed “lossy” formats) that most folks use in their vehicles and the reflective surfaces inside the vehicle itself, there is only so much than can be done. Lot’s of electronic wizardry going on to make the system sound good.
I don’t blame Cadillac for wanting to associate with a more high end audio name, I’m just not sure Harmon is that name.
Paracutin, very cool that you sold Legacy Audio. I’m definitely familiar with that name, partly because the founder is a University of Illinois grad like myself, but also because I do like to follow audio technology.
I’d love to get some Aeris speakers from Legacy at some point. In the meantime, I’ve got a pair of Martin Logan Motion 40’s which I enjoy a lot (probably not quite “audiophile”, but at least upper mid-fi). One tenth of the price of the Aeris, at least they have AMT folded ribbon (“Heil” type) tweeters, as the Aeris has. I chose the ML’s based on how they sounded to me. I especially liked the very clean and smooth treble. I’d actually thought I would be buying a different brand (which disappointed me upon hearing, even though well-reviewed), but listening convinced me the ML’s were right for my ears.
As far as the Harman name, I agree that it’s a step up in perception from Bose, but still not probably high enough to impress hard-core audiophiles. Lincoln has gone with Revel for the premium system on their Continental, after having excellent car systems under the THX Ultra II name. Revel is certainly a name respected by audiophiles, well above Harman in the home audiophile pecking order – but not very well known to the general public, which might think Harman is better if they never heard of Revel.
B&O is probably Harman’s most prestigious marquee. Again, not a well know name in the automotive space.
I wasn’t aware that Samsung owned Harman until I looked at Wikipedia a moment ago.
You guys have got to be kidding me. 90% of the components that make up the fancy audiophileautomotive hifi brands come out of big factories in China. Go pull some parts and see for yourself. I have a high end rig at home and the stuff I’ve seen come out of cars (Revel, B&W, B&O, etc. is light years below what you find in the home products from these same brands. It’s silly to think that for $1000, which is half the price for a Revel 3-way home speaker pair, you get 19 speakers plus a 800watt amp and a 12 channel DSP hifi amplifier in your car. I’ll bet the system in the car cost less than $500 to the automaker and they mark it up 3x to us. One tweeter in my home loudspeaker costs $800, so there’s no way you are getting 4 of those in a car plus all that other stuff for the same price. And, as far as I’m concerned I’ve heard great car audio from Levinson (LS450), B&W (Volvo XC90), and Bose (CT6). I’ve also heard bad systems from these companies as well. Finally, it seems like there are really only three players in car audio: Bose, Sony, and Harman (which does the B&W and B&O car systems but not their home systems, look it up on the internet).
Oldschoolaudiophile, agreed that there’s a big disconnect between home stereo brands and the car audio brands that use the same name. As you point out, B&W and B&O (both very respected names in home equipment) have sold their car audio brand to Harman (now owned by Samsung), which makes ANY connection with their home equipment questionable. Additionally, it’s well known that the components for the branded car audio are not made by the home stereo company, they might not even be made FOR the home stereo brand but simply are “off the rack” components – though still “approved” in some way by the named brand (again except for B&W and B&O).
Speaking of cheap components that don’t necessarily go with the actual brand, I have heard that in some cars the “premium” stereo is the same as the base stereo, with just a subwoofer and a more powerful amplifier added. Which would make sense, because that way the car maker could install the same basic set of speakers during the assembly, and simply finish them off a little differently depending on the stereo chosen. I’d much rather have all luxury cars get the premium stereo, but I guess the marketers and bean-counters have figured out that the best way to extract the most cash from the customer is to make the premium stereo a costly “upgrade”, even though it doesn’t cost the auto-maker much more to produce.
And yes it is a bit ludicrous for someone to think they are getting the car audio equivalent of Mark Levinson home components, or Revel or some of the other very high-end names. Sony quality I can believe. Though I do think that generally the more expensive cars have better sounding “premium” audio, but you have to hear them for yourself to make sure. I think the Panaray will probably be unchanged when they drop the Bose name, probably there’s already some agreement that Cadillac can continue the same design under another brand name. It just says “Panaray” anyway (from what I have seen), not “Bose”, and hopefully Cadillac was smart enough to get the rights to the Panaray name without Bose.
It’s true that Harman, Bose, and Sony seem to dominate the “premium” car audio business, but there are a few other names as well. Harman does hold the Harman/Kardon, JBL, Mark Levinson, Revel, Infinity, and B&O and B&W (car only) brands, possibly some others. But there’s also Dynaudio (in some VWs and Volvos), Boston Acoustics (in some Chryslers), and Alpine (in some Chryslers also, and supposedly as unbranded components in the higher trim Hondas). And there was/is THX Ultra II, which makes no components whatsoever, but helped create/approve some nice premium audio for Lincoln (although the new Continental has Revel).
It all makes you wonder though how much the audiophile brands are willing to just sell their brand names to car makers for a few extra bucks, and how much work they really put into the designs. Believe it or not there was an Acura RLX with an option for a “Krell” branded system a few years ago. Are you kidding me? Krell Audio? On an RLX? What’s next, Wilson Audio on a Taurus? Why not, just slap the name on and hope you don’t spoil your home audio business, with someone thinking they’ve heard “your” speakers/electronics in a car audio system.
Lincoln 2019 mkz with the revel system feels like it is missing something. i have a harman kardon avr1710s with klipsch reference premier 7.2… the accoustics are amazing on the revel. but the spaciousness is there with the harman. i think the harman kardon is better even without my subs.
Perceived sound quality often is a personal thing. Also the type of music and the production quality if it can make a big difference on top of just the hardware.
Right now Harman is the higher name as they have not whored out to every and just any brand.
It is kind of like Brenbo. They still make some of the worlds best brakes but they are not the same ones you found on the Cobalt SS.
Bose can make killer stuff but they also can make some good and that can detract in a high end luxury car.
I have a Bose in my Canyon, not bad but I have heard better. I added the GM Kicker sub that the factory left out. The compromised Bose make due to whst GZm wants to spend in the end detracts from their name.
Bose Panaray 34-speaker system adds $3,700 to the price of a Cadillac CT6, to say it’s an excessive amount doesn’t even come close as one has to imagine the manpower needed to install the sound system can possibly add another $500-1,000 and whie Harman Kardon probably won’t be able to match the sound richness of the Bose system, consumers will be thankful as the money could be used for other potential options.
If you are really into quality sound, $3,700 is not a lot of money. Check the priced of high end speaker systems. It will blow your mind what folks will spend on speakers and electronics. The audio guy is generally not the car guy too. However, folks that can afford a very well equipped CT6 will often add the audio upgrade simply because they can.
If the relationship ends entirely, it severs a 35 year partnership that was, at its inception, groundbreaking. GM and Bose began the concept of premium speakers in automobiles in 1983 and soon thereafter other carmakers were penning deals with audio companies to offer enhanced speaker systems such as JBL/Ford and Infinity/Chrysler.
For every Lexus owner who enjoys their Mark Levinson sound system or BMW owner who revels in the sounds coming from their Harmon Kardon system, they can thank abode and GM for pioneering the concept.
I’d say Bose is perhaps a victim of their own success. Had they kept the speakers confined to GM’s top models as was originally the case, there might not be a need for a new provider but GM has expanded their Bose offerings across their product portfolio diminishing its prestige. Likewise Bose inked deals with other carmakers like Nissan that use their speakers in popularly priced products like their Rogue. Originally the Delco-Bose system was only available on GM’s five most exclusive products; the Chevrolet Corvette, Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Rivera, Cadillac Eldorado and Seville.
I suspect the Bose Panaray system may continue to be offered but be augmented by another higher-end system.
Let Hope Cadillac doesn’t stop with just a stero upgrade. They need upgrades across the board. What ever the competition offer or does always b a step ahead of them. The best way to get ahead especially after over 30 years of being behind is offer a better product for a better price.