Cumulative Cadillac CTS sales decreased in the United States and in Canada in July 2017.
Cadillac CTSÂ Sales – July 2017 – United States
Cadillac CTS deliveries in the United States totaled 786 units in July 2017, a decrease of 40 percent compared to 1,313 units sold in July 2016. In the first seven months of 2017, sales of the CTS decreased 36.6 percent to 5,845 units.
Sales Numbers - Cadillac CTS - July 2017 - United States
| MODEL | JUL 17 / JUL 16 | JULY 17 | JULY 16 | YTD 17 / YTD 16 | YTD 17 | YTD 16 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CTS | -40.14% | 786 | 1,313 | -36.60% | 5,845 | 9,219 |
Cadillac CTS Sales – July 2017 –Â Canada
In Canada, the CTS recorded 33 deliveries in July 2017, a decrease of 31.25 percent compared to 48 units sold in July 2016. In the first seven months of the year, CTS sales decreased 20.5 percent to 326 units in Canada.
Sales Numbers - Cadillac CTS - July 2017 - Canada
| MODEL | JUL 17 / JUL 16 | JULY 17 | JULY 16 | YTD 17 / YTD 16 | YTD 17 | YTD 16 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CTS | -31.25% | 33 | 48 | -20.49% | 326 | 410 |
The GM Authority Take
While U.S. CTS sales fell 40 percent, the overall midsize luxury sedan segment grew 1.52 percent. Of the nine models that compete in the midsize luxury sedan segment, three posted sales volume growth, including the BMW 5 Series (up 42.89 percent), Genesis G80 (sales increased from zero to 1,339 units) as well as the Volvo 90 series (totaling a cumulative 1,078 units). Meanwhile, sales of the Mercedes-Benz E-Class family fell 25.82 percent to 3,876 units, the Audi A6 line saw sales decrease 33.15 percent to 1,218, Lexus GS deliveries fell 46.47 percent to 652 units, Infiniti Q70 sales fell 26.04 percent to 365 units, and Acura RLX sales fell 39.62 percent to 64 units. The results place the Cadillac CTS into sixth place in terms of cumulative sales volume in July, behind the three German rivals, as well as behind Genesis and Volvo, yet ahead of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura.
As in months prior, we continue to associate the reasons for the decline in CTS sales with stiff competition from segments stalwarts — the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW 5 Series. In addition, new entrants including the Volvo 90 series and the Genesis G80 have come in to steal some of the CTS’ thunder. The four models are all-new for the 2017 model year, while the CTS is the oldest vehicle in the class, having last been redesigned for the 2014 model year.
Luckily, Cadillac will soon replace the CTS with an all-new model called CT5. Expected to be roughly the same size as the third-generation CTS, the CT5 will have a starting price in the $35,000 range, enabling it to compete price-wise with compact luxury sedans while offering more in terms of size, features, and refinement.
Sales Numbers - Midsize Luxury Sedans & Coupes - July 2017 - United States
| MODEL | JUL 17 / JUL 16 | JULY 17 | JULY 16 | YTD 17 / YTD 16 | YTD 17 | YTD 16 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 SERIES | +42.89% | 4,068 | 2,847 | -13.69% | 17,499 | 20,275 |
| E-CLASS | -25.82% | 3,876 | 5,225 | +3.44% | 28,635 | 27,683 |
| G80 | * | 1,339 | * | * | 9,005 | * |
| A6 | -33.15% | 1,218 | 1,822 | -9.49% | 9,187 | 10,150 |
| S90 | +230.12% | 855 | 259 | +1,326.59% | 3,809 | 267 |
| V90 | * | 47 | * | * | 61 | * |
| V90 CC | * | 176 | * | * | 1,067 | * |
| CTS | -40.14% | 786 | 1,313 | -36.60% | 5,845 | 9,219 |
| GS | -46.47% | 652 | 1,218 | -51.50% | 4,205 | 8,670 |
| Q70 | -26.04% | 375 | 507 | +0.11% | 3,658 | 3,654 |
| RLX | -39.62% | 64 | 106 | -25.69% | 619 | 833 |
| TOTAL | +1.20% | 13,456 | 13,297 | +3.52% | 83,590 | 80,751 |
- CTS sales include Cadillac CTS Sedan, CTS V-Sport Sedan, and CTS-V Sedan
- E-Class figures include Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan, E-Class Wagon, E-Class Coupe and CLS-Class
- 5 Series figures include BMW 5 Series sedan and 5 Series GT
- A6 figures include Audi A6 and S6
- Q70 figures include Q70 and Q70L
- S90, V90, V90 CC include:
- S90, the sedan variant of Volvo 90 series
- V90, the wagon variant of Volvo 90 series
- V90 CC, the ruggedized wagon variant of Volvo V90
- Sales figures for the Jaguar XE, which competes in the midsize luxury sedan class, are not available since Jaguar Land Rover does not provide a sales breakout on a model level
Related News & Info
Related Sales Reporting
- Running GM sales results
- Running Cadillac sales results
- Running Cadillac CTS sales numbers
- Running Chevrolet sales results
- Running Buick sales results
- Running GMC sales results
- Running Cadillac sales results
- July 2017 GM sales results
- U.S. GM July 2017 sales results
- U.S. July 2017 Chevrolet sales results
- U.S. July 2017 Cadillac sales results
- U.S. July 2017 Buick sales results
- U.S. July 2017 GMC sales results
- GM Canada July 2017 sales results
- Canada July 2017 Chevrolet sales results
- Canada July 2017 Cadillac sales results
- Canada July 2017 Buick sales results
- Canada July 2017 GMCÂ sales results
- GM China July 2017 sales results
- Global July 2017 Cadillac sales results
- U.S. GM July 2017 sales results
Reporting by Francisco (Frankie) Cruz. GM Authority Take analysis by Alex Luft.
Comments
You can’t make money at this puny level. If you expand this to worldwide sales, you can really see how extensively the Germans dominate.
It depends on the initial costs (development, tooling) and the unit line costs of production, distributions and sales. I have reason to believe they are profitable with the gen 3 CTS line as low as 300 units a month, given a 6-8 year model lifespan.
This is why Melody Lee makes the big bucks. Lavish dinners at five-star restaurants, expensive hotel stays, art and fashion shows at coffee houses, helicopter rides to the Hamptons – nice to see that it’s all paying off in increased sales. Oops, never mind.
The current lineup, perhaps outside the XT5 and CT6, is not getting any kind of love or attention from Cadillac internally. The focus is intensely on the next generation of vehicles. So the team is working on that. This was to be expected.
Alex, yes it does seem clear that Johan wants to see all the pre-JDN models fail, so that “his” cars will look good by comparison. That might be smart for him personally, but it’s bad for the company. Pre-JDN model sales should not have fallen this much. And he’s further hurting future sales of models like the ATS, CTS, and XTS by telling everyone now that they won’t be around much longer (i.e. to be replaced by CT5 and CT3 or whatever).
What I wonder is where is the oversight from Mary Barra and the board of directors? It seems to me they are giving Cadillac management too much leeway, when results have been this poor for this long. And how does some like Melody Lee “give herself another 10 years before seeing results”, when she’s already been in her Cadillac job for 5 years, with such obvious failure? Does Melody own the majority of GM shares? If not, how does she “give herself” another 10 years, while GM management lets her write her own contract?
I don’t blame the top execs at Cadillac for not resigning from the cushy jobs, despite abysmal results like this. Who quits a great, high-pay job where failure is an option? Not many would do that, and obviously no one at Cadillac is leaving voluntarily. But Barra as CEO needs to hold Cadillac accountable, and if she won’t, then the board of directors needs to take charge and fire Barra.
I understand the point you’re making, and somewhat agree, but JDN and Barra are focused on the future of Cadillac. They’re pouring their energy into the new products instead of the dying ones. They probably expected sales to be down considering the marketing team is (hopefully) focused on campaigns for the new products. I’m really excited to see what will be released from Caddy. Wish I could see under all the camouflage in the spy shots of the XT4 & CT6 refresh
Drew,
Now you are keying in on the problem. Barra. JDN’s reckless speech should not be tolerated. He’s made know his distain for current customers and long time brand loyal customers. That’s a back-asswards philosophy. We’re revenue. JDN (and Barra) is expense.
I don’t know much about Lee. The marketing is poor. Who knows how it’s approved? I certainly don’t. Who’s watching the store?
As for Barra, I lost what little respect I may have had for her when she recently made her support for reckless speech known on a national level.
It’s no wonder Cadillac’s B2B warranty is only as good as the lying sales manager at a dealership.
There is absolutely no excuse for a luxury car customer to go service department shopping in hopes of warranty issues being resolved.
QA should have intercepted the wide spread issues prior to launch. Pinnacle is a bad joke. Just another way for Cadillac to squeeze dealers.
Do you remember when Steve Jobs said “we don’t ship junk”? That’s the gold standard for QA and customer service.
Susan, Johan is a foreign guy with a German-car bias, who arrived at Cadillac with his personal “playbook” and no affection for what Cadillac has meant historically to Americans. Wherever he’s gone, he’s tried to adapt the carmaker to his personal whims, rather than adapting to local tastes and traditions.
While at Audi, the JDN playbook worked, or at least did not hinder them much, as Audi benefitted from the aura of being a German brand. It’s also possible that Audi was going to be embraced anyway, due to the fad of German cars becoming popular in the early 21st century. Infiniti and Cadillac however are not German brands, and the JDN playbook has yet to work in either place.
Did you know that when JDN went to Infiniti, he moved the HQ from Tokyo to Hong Kong to give the company a more cosmpolitan/luxury feel? Yep, same as he’s moved Cadillac from Detroit to NYC. And he also renamed all Infiniti cars so that everything starts with Q. Wow, that was really helpful. Another JDN trick is to raise prices substantially, in order to give them a cachet of luxury via price. It’s debatable whether that’s a good strategy, but JDN is simply going to do it at every brand he heads, whether it’s right for that particular brand at that particular time, or not. Likewise, JDN wanted to make Infiniti “the BMW of Japan”, whether Japan needed a BMW-clone or not. When GM hired JDN, they were already doubling down on the failed BMW-clone strategy.
So you might be offended by JDN’s “right driveways” comment, and rightly so. It’s especially offensive to Americans with a sense of history, given Cadillac’s policy in the 1920’s regarding sales to African-Americans, but JDN is not American, so he apparently doesn’t realize that his “right driveways” comment not only offends traditional Cadillac customers but also Americans at large.
But realize that JDN is frankly not that great a CEO. He’s portrayed as a “take charge, man of action”, blah blah blah. But when he’s running the same playbook wherever he goes, how smart is he really? Also, JDN gets into personal conflicts with people who don’t share his views. For example after he left Infiniti, they chose not to go ahead with his super-duper-sporty-huge-engined “Eau Rouge” project. So instead of being content to run Cadillac and basically do the same thing with the CTS-V, JDN derided Infiniti management and engineers for caring more about the luxury aspects of cars (including refinement and reliability) rather than the “sporty” ones. As if he had a better understanding of the Japan market than the Japanese themselves.
Barra obviously has looked at JDN’s “success” at Audi, and she thinks he can work some sort of magic at Cadillac. Apparently she doesn’t care about Cadillac’s history or legacy customers either. But at some point the GM board of directors should start to car, as these disastrous moves hit the bottom line, when Cadillac should be raking in the profits as the GM luxury brand, with a century of history, goodwill, and first-rate success.
Drew,
I did know of the Hong Kong HQ for Infinity. I’m at the point of being so done with GM. I loved my Cadillacs until this last one. It was a great run!
Hang on to your DTS as long as you possibly can. You will not be pleased with the stuff Cadillac is selling now. Don’t let anyone talk you out of your DTS. Go to school on me. No reason we both should be stuck with one of these sorry excuses for a Cadillac.
The game seems to be strip the vehicles and jack the price. XT5 is considered Cadillac’s savior du jour. No repeaters on the side mirrors. That’s only for China.
Today I read that the base XT5 interior is only available in one color. Can you believe that?
My gut tells me that GM plans to squeeze the last drop from this oversized lemon before shutting down the brand. If GM actually wants to revive Cadillac it’s past time to send Johan do Nothing on his way.
Sorry you are being called out on this site. You posts may be hitting too close to home. Cadillac is not selling. It’s just that simple. Not your doing or mine.
Have a good evening!
The cars we have while not total flops have issues.
#1 the interiors were shot changes in the funding. GM generally spends the money on the Chassis and not the interior as it is last to be funded
# 2 nearly each car had a different Cadilkac leader so they just do not mesh all that well. Hence cars that all are very similar in a market not interested in coupes and losing interest in sedans.
#3 GM is not going to invest much in lame ducts. You can keep taking a dying dog to the Vet and spend a ton of money only to put it down in the end. Better to take that money and invest it in the new dog and make it better with those funds.
JDN does not want anything to fail. But he is not going to waste his precious fund on product he does not believe in. To waste money would be utterly foolish.
As it is Cadillac is still making money and is just buying time for the nearly complete new product. JDN and company made it clear it would take five years min for their new product and we are at 4 years now.
So many here get focused on the small things and miss the big picture.
This is why my car won’t downshift for highway maneuvers?
It may be the loose nut behind the wheel.
One day Cadillac apologists will have something beside personal attacks.
Seems you can not desern one of the oldest car joke in the world.
Sorry if I just don’t agree to get along but I am not going to try to pretend the reality is different.
I am not happy with everything either but it is what it is and it is not going to change.
Don’t get me started on autonomous cars as I hate them but they will be here at some point.
Sad but true.
Drew, we all know Melody is only there to “pleasure” the guys over at Cadillac, its the only logical reason why she is still there. lmao
I know you could do a better job under a table, but you couldn’t do any better managing Cadillac.
As usual, the article only tells the score, not why that is because they don’t know. If they did it would not happen… Anyone that sells these cars could tell them what happened.
First, Cadillac raised the price of the CTS $10,000 The car is nice but not that nice. Second, Everyone, I mean everyone I talk to Hates the Run Flat tires. Third, Q 4th the Residual on the lease is much lower than Mercedes and BMW, resulting in an increase in their sales. Yet the office has not figured that out yet. Fourth, That Trunk. Who approved that?
Cadillac could change it, yet this is all planned and engineered, they are purposefully, causing it to fail so they can come with their new model.
1. Include Standard Michelin Tires as an option, with a full sized spare, not a bicycle tire or can of Fix a Flat.
2. Increase the Residual to make a payment option competitive, Money Talks you know.
3. Add Knobs to Q! That will help prevent the distracted driving Q promotes, and the Awful number of fingerprints.
4. The car has lots of blind spots, Camera’s help, so either narrow the pillars in front and rear, or make the camera’s standard.
5. The trunk is too small to fit adult size golf clubs across the back. Get rid of most of that nonsense back there and do it right the first time.
6. Ditch that stupid naming theme. Names are easier to remember, letters and numbers may work for Europe. But this is the US, Want numbers and letter, use them on Export versions.
Those few improvements would go a long way to saving it.
None of this would work when it’s not even being considered.
Steve, when you say this…
“As usual, the article only tells the score, not why that is because they don’t know”
… it makes it seem that you have missed the paragraph where I provide the “because”. Allow me to provide it for you here:
As in months prior, we continue to associate the reasons for the decline in CTS sales with stiff competition from segments stalwarts — the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW 5 Series. In addition, new entrants including the Volvo 90 series and the Genesis G80 have come in to steal some of the CTS’ thunder. The four models are all-new for the 2017 model year, while the CTS is the oldest vehicle in the class, having last been redesigned for the 2014 model year.
So, the “because” is that the CTS is 1) the oldest in its segment and 2) because it’s not the most competitive because of point #1 and 3) because it wasn’t the most competitive to begin with. As for #3, these reasons are well-documented here on GMA, but with the summary being that the car doesn’t have the same level of detail in features, user experience, and quality as the competition.
Id did not need to be that way Alex, Bumping the price as you did without enhancing its residual for leases was the death nail in its coffin.
You guys still do not know what you are doing.
I realize that you think you all are doing a wonderful job.
Blaming GM for spending all its money on suspensions is not the answer to the problem, Cadillac management went along with all that.
For the most part the only ones that care are those that do not buy the cars.
The customer sees the inside and the outside, they never crawl on the ground to see under the car.
90% of Cadillac customers will Never Race their cars.
How good a handling car do you need for a sub 70 mph expressway? Most roads in the US do not have sharp bends, as our roads were not laid out for oxcarts.
I remember in 2014 everyone liked the new look of the CTS, and we could not give them away with the increase in price.
You guys still do not study your own history.
People buy brands and names of cars as they develop an association with the name. When you start tinkering around with the names, you have to resell the brand all over again.
You would be far better served leaving the name, and changing the car.
You guys are courting disaster.
That said, I will contend some of your points.
First, regarding pricing: the increase in price of the third-gen CTS never was a problem of the car, but rather of the expectation that Cadillac has created with the first- and second-gen CTSes. Both of those were midsize lux sedans for compact lux sedan money… which in the long term is really a cop-out, or an easy way gaining sales — as anyone can offer more for less, but not everyone can offer less for more (the Germans). With the second-gen CTS, Cadillac built a customer base with the expectation that the Cadillac brand is the “value luxury brand”… and then they took away by introducing properly-priced and properly-sized ATS and gen 3 CTS — which is the way it should have been in the first place, but wasn’t due to indecisiveness, corner-cutting, and other negative corporate scheme-hatchery.
The result was as follows: the core group of first and second gen CTS owners did not want the smaller car they could afford (ATS) and could not afford to (or did not want to) pony up the extra cash for a nicer car (gen 3 CTS) that they wanted.
This illustrates the danger of straddling segments, as Cadillac did with the last-gen models. The brand appears to be headed in the same direction now with the CT3/CT5, but with a clear-cut strategy this time around of having two cars with more “value”. And if I understand the long-term strategy correctly, then this is only a starting point. With time, we should see the “value” proposition dwindle or be removed as sales increase, the models build a following, and the Cadillac brand builds the image it so desperately needs.
The lower-than-desirable residuals are an issue on pretty much any Cadillac save for the Escalade are a result of incentivized sales, itself a result of the aforementioned issues with ATS/CTS and of the Cadillac brand not being as desirable as the German competition.
On to your other points.
1. Include Standard Michelin Tires as an option, with a full sized spare, not a bicycle tire or can of Fix a Flat. – Fully agreed, non-run-flats (especially Michelins) are night and day over the stock rubber
2. Increase the Residual to make a payment option competitive, Money Talks you know. – already addressed above
3. Add Knobs to Q! That will help prevent the distracted driving Q promotes, and the Awful number of fingerprints. – agreed, as we outlined here in 2015:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/03/poll-should-cadillac-equip-cue-with-physical-knobs-and-dials/
4. The car has lots of blind spots, Camera’s help, so either narrow the pillars in front and rear, or make the camera’s standard. – this isn’t so much an issue, as it’s a matter of getting accustomed to said blind spots… the E-Class and 5 Series are not any better in this, and neither is the Lexus GS
5. The trunk is too small to fit adult size golf clubs across the back. Get rid of most of that nonsense back there and do it right the first time. – I don’t think this is an issue, as the CTS’ trunk is actually larger and more usable than that of the E-Class and many others in this segment. The ATS and CTS are also the only models to offer a pass-through (outside of the 5 Series, which offers a 40/20/40 split rear seat, in typical BMW fashion)
6. Ditch that stupid naming theme. Names are easier to remember, letters and numbers may work for Europe. But this is the US, Want numbers and letter, use them on Export versions. – Not at all necessary, as the name doesn’t determine the sales success of the car (see every other competitor in this class). What they need is a naming scheme that’s consistent through time, enabling nameplate recognition… changing names every 10-15 years runs contrary to that.
All good points.
There’s one more point regarding the dwindling CTS sales worth mentioning. On the low-end, the current lineup has the ATS stealing sales from the CTS from would-be buyers who get sticker shock – that is, if they don’t realize the ATS lags the competition. On the higher end, the CT6 is cannibalizing CTS sales with its generous overlap in price for a bigger package.
The CT5 can’t appear soon enough to help rationalize this line-up.
Finally, “value luxury brand” is not a bad thing when you are playing catch up. Get back to this strategy and call the BMW-clone thing a failure. No one ever said successful car companies have to follow German car classes to a tee. It’s easily a 20-30 year cycle for customers to consider Cadillac to be at parity with the top shelf competition. Note to impatient execs: A couple of favorable magazine reviews don’t mean customer sentiment has changed.
Looks like you don’t realize that Cadillac has a 3% global market share in the luxury segment. So, you don’t have the budget to do great things.
The Germans dominate the luxury segment and they also set the standard and customer expectations. Cadillac is really just a fringe player with many classifying it as near luxury similar to Volvo, Infinity and Acura.
Jack Wood, I’m not sure what you see as “great things” but it’s true that Cadillac no longer has a large share of the luxury market, and that GM does not have a ton of extra cash for R&D. Given that situation, it’s again silly that Cadillac spends so much effort trying to out-German the Germans. Cadillac does not have to make ridiculously complex cars like the Germans make, to have a nice niche luxury business. They don’t have to have their own engines and own RWD chassis and keep chasing ever-complex, unreliable German multi-gearing simply for bragging rights as the king of ultra-complexity.
Obviously the public hasn’t bought into the concept of Cadillac as a German brand, so it’s well past time to be playing that game. If Cadillac had stuck to its core values of roominess, comfort, reliability, styling, luxury interiors, up-to-date consumer electronics, and angular styling – and they sold those values (especially 1st class comfort) to the public, rather than being embarrassed by them – they’d still have a very nice luxury niche, with high sales and high profits. Instead they have followed the costly route to German over-engineering, and it hasn’t paid off. As you point out, they can’t really afford it anyway.
Cadillac was never about being a “sporty handling” sedan when it ruled the US luxury market. That’s a niche created by the Germans, and frankly the Germans can have it. Sadly Cadillac has abandoned their core market to pursue something else. Imagine if McDonald’s stopped selling burgers, shakes, and fries, in order to sell sausage, sauerkraut, and potato pancakes. Just because that’s what the Germans sell. That’s about what Cadillac has done, except the German car route is also very expensive, which does mean you’d better sell in high volume to make it pay off.
I feel very certain that Cadillac is on the wrong path and will fail, and at a very high price to GM. The sad part is that it didn’t have to be this way. They could be selling modern 21st century Cadillacs instead of these German-wannabes that don’t sell. Some people say that the DTS was the last real Cadillac (there’s even an online article from 2008 titled “Cadillac RIP” regarding the planned end of the DTS). But even if you buy into the idea that the XTS is the last connection to Cadillac core values, that one dies around 2021.
And of course at that point, some people will cheer because Cadillac sedans will be all-German-wannabe, all RWD, all the time. There’s a view that if only Cadillac could go all sports sedans, all hard riding, great handling, Euro-wannabes, that suddenly sales would go sky high. But those people feel that today, a lot of people won’t buy an ATS, CTS, or CT6 because Cadillac also sells the XTS and they hate that (FWD and somewhat comfortable ride). That of course is ridiculous, as if someone wouldn’t buy a BMW 7-series because BMW also sells that tiny electric i3, or wouldn’t buy an MB S-class because MB also sells full-size vans. But the “let’s go totally German” people have won, they are killing off Cadillac and remaking it in their image, and they’ll get to find out how successful that is in the future.
Alex, regarding your responses to points 4,5,6 – this is not “leadership” thinking IMO. It’s copycat thinking, and believing that that’s the right way for Cadillac to go.
“4. The car has lots of blind spots, Camera’s help, so either narrow the pillars in front and rear, or make the camera’s standard. – this isn’t so much an issue, as it’s a matter of getting accustomed to said blind spots… the E-Class and 5 Series are not any better in this, and neither is the Lexus GS”
So blind spots are ok because “the competition” has them? Why should Cadillac be designed to simply “meet” or even have anything to do with cars from other manufacturers? When Cadillac began, Henry Leland wanted the brand to me more reliable than the existing brands, without “just as good” being acceptable.
“5. The trunk is too small to fit adult size golf clubs across the back. Get rid of most of that nonsense back there and do it right the first time. – I don’t think this is an issue, as the CTS’ trunk is actually larger and more usable than that of the E-Class and many others in this segment. The ATS and CTS are also the only models to offer a pass-through (outside of the 5 Series, which offers a 40/20/40 split rear seat, in typical BMW fashion)”
Again, matching the Germans spec-for-spec and feeling satisfied, because where Cadillac comes up short, so does “the competition” is not right for Cadillac. Cadillac needs to get back to their core values. This is similar to the tiny back seat (33.5″ of legroom) on the ATS that some here have deemed acceptable, because prior generation BMW’s had the same size of back seat.
No Cadillac should have such a tiny back seat, I don’t care what BMW does (or did, since the “target” for current Cadillac management always seems to be the prior generation BMW). I liked Henry’s idea of an ATS replacement having only two very large luxurious front seats and no back seat, but that’s far too forward thinking for current “let’s do whatever BMW did” management.
” 6. Ditch that stupid naming theme. Names are easier to remember, letters and numbers may work for Europe. But this is the US, Want numbers and letter, use them on Export versions. – Not at all necessary, as the name doesn’t determine the sales success of the car (see every other competitor in this class). What they need is a naming scheme that’s consistent through time, enabling nameplate recognition… changing names every 10-15 years runs contrary to that.”
I partially agree that the names should not matter much to the sales. But the problem with slavishly following the German naming conventions underscores the actual problem – that Cadillac is effectively telling the market that the Germans do everything right, and all that’s left is for Cadillac to copy them, but at a cheaper price (and maybe some unique styling, though JDN wants to “soften” the classic angular Cadillac lines now).
The change from real names to meaningless letters was just one more way that Cadillac surrendered its leadership role. You can bet that if BMW, Audi, and MB all went to real names, Cadillac would do the same. And that’s simply not what Cadillac did for decades as the leader of US luxury sales. Cadillac needs to go back to making great cars to their own values, not someone else’s. There is enough difference between German and American roads, preferences, and driving habits that not every American wants a German style car.
#1 adding a full size spare…. where would you put it in the back seat? Also spares are not high on the list of people 50 and younger as few have ever had a flat and most could not change it anyways
#2 keeping the price up and avoided getting large cuts is a long term plan to protect the coming products from large losses after leaving the lot same for the move to more CUV and SUV models.
#3 the cue is being made more user friendly and like many like my self now on an I pad we are well use to no buttons.
#4 the pillars are not so large you need a camera. If you think these average size pillars are bad go get in an HHR and see what it used to be.
#5 the trunks are small but you want bigger then you lose interior room. This is why CUV models are so popular.
#6 like the naming or not if you build a compelling car and market right people will not care what you call it be it a S, X or 3 model and over pay for it to boot.
You really have to look big picture here and take in all the issues and plans not just your minor beefs. Times and the market segment has changes. Is there anyone else doing big but ships with bench seats today? No and the reason why is only a few aged folks are still looking for this and most are on limited income and could not afford it anyways.
Not keeping lock step with the market put us behind and we are still trying to catch up.
Item 1. I don’t do my own pit work. Tow services change tires and I can be on my way. The normal place for a spare is a well in the chassis. Note to Cadillac brass.
Item 3. I’m not certain what that sentence says. If it’s that your iPad had no buttons please look on the side and top.
Drivers don’t sit in a recliner navigating Q or CUE whatever you call it. Each time Q is *improved* there is a loss of functionality. Check the user forums for more info.
Item 5. CUV’s are ugly. Not necessary for trunk space. Cars come with trunks.
Item 6. Alphabet soup is not a name. Cadillac is an American almost luxury car. We use names on this side of the pond.
The big picture? Cadillac is not selling. The bench seat/ageism comment? We have nothing but money and time to spend it. Guess where we are not spending car money again?
#1 appears you have not been under an Alpha. There is no place for a spare. Maybe you should do some pit work before you speak.
#3 note this post was done with out knobs or buttons. Or do you want to return to the days of the SSEI and the 72 buttons? That would really work in today’s market. Might just let them fix Cue and get your grandson to teach you how to use it.
#5 like em or not that is what the market is buying. Change public opinion and then they will build more sedans. They do have more usable practicable useable space. They are also much more flexible and that is what today’s market wants.
#6 again build a compelling car and people could care less what you call it. The future of Cadillac is global and it should use the same numbers globally.
You are only 1% of a market segment that is only 20% of the market. The reality is the money you contibute is not worth the investment. Automakers can no longer cater to the odd customer that accounts for a very small sliver of the market. Majority rules and I’d you don’t adapt you will just be bitter and alone walking.
You forgot to tell me to buy a Buick. Losing your touch?
BTW what do you drive?
I am No a Buick fan, I drive Cadillac demo’s and have for 28 years. I evaluate cars that are traded in telling the UCD what types of maintenance they might need for resale. So I get to drive Cadillac Acura, Buick, Mercedes BMW, Audi, Corvette, even Rolls Royces, I came to the conclusion long ago, any worn out Cadillac is better than nearly all new cars. So my exposure to cars is not the usual one.
To be honest that would not work anymore as they too are very intune with the market.
If I were to point you anywhere the classic car market may be your only choice or the no credit checks needed car lots. They often have a selection of experienced Fleetwoods that no one wants.
Right now I have a Malibu, Terrain SLT, new Denali Crew, and a classic national winning Pontiac.
Note the Bu and Terrain are classic examples of similar sized products with the same engine and transmission but I can do so much more with the Terrain.
The Bu has a large trunk but the opening prevents much from fitting in.
The Terrain can carry Mr sons Soap Box Derby Racer or even a porch swing and the stand that holds it but none of that would fit the Bu.
I like both but it shows why the public is moving to the CUV.
I have a wide interest in cars and do not hate the old Fleetwoods but I do understand the market has little interest in them now just as little interest in most coupes.
Hell I own a coupe but get how people today think more functional vs style.
People today pay large amounts of money for a vehicle they want it to do more than just be a styling extension of their personality.
I find the loss of style sad but I am not going to change it and neither will you.
The truth is we may hold similar likes but I have grasped that the market has changed and why. I don’t have to like it but I do have to accept what is offered. Beats walking or driving an old car.
To be honest My Denali is nicer than most Cadillacs since the 70’s.
The truth is if Cadillac had given the market what they wanted in the 80’s Thry would not have had to play catch up for decades.
Today they are attempting to move where the market is vs. selling only to the fringe.
When you spend money on a new Cadillac come back and talk to us.
We have enough of the Chevy contingent telling us how wonderful our Cadillacs are but we are too stupid to know it.
BTW there is no K in Cadillac. You may want to look at your iPad posts. Find a kid to show you how that intuitive device is used.
iPad is ubiquitous. CUE is a joke. Read car reviews.
I have been under it, I see them on the lift. GM does not want to admit they made any mistakes.
NIH you know.
Knobs. your statement shows you have no dealing with the public You sound like the Democrat Pollsters that were sure Hillary was going to win.
The people buy what is available, and the dealers order what the factory pressures them to buy.
Scott, I respectfully submit you are clueless.
Steve for sure there were short comings but you also have to consider this platform was compromised by the fact it’s gestation was during the bail out and it was complete post bail out. At the time GM had a lot to fix and still a limited income. They were still unsure where they would be in 2015 profit wise.
Add to it the revolving door of managers many of which were intimidated by the board .
But with that said I’ve is not going to bring back the old style Fleetwood. The market has changed as have the buyers.
Some thing in cars today are dictated by cost. Some are due to regulation etc.
But the future of electronics is going to no buttons and touch screens. Much do yo cost, mfg and the ability to make one simple unit do it all.
Most people under 60 have or are adapting already in many products we have today.
You don’t have to like it but it is what it is.
I am not always thrilled either but it is not going to change.
Today has become adapt or be left behind bitter and pissed off.
Just because you do not like the future does not make others clueless.
Steve sells Cadillacs. He knows the market. You are indeed clueless.
Maybe they need new salesmen.
I think many here know car salesmen often are the worst informed people about product.
That often is a major problem at many dealers.
You want to bring credibility I would not use the sales card.
So the people who buy Cadillacs and the people who sell Cadillacs know nothing about that the market wants?
I’ll concede that some salesmen (not all) will tell any lie to sell a car. According to the joker who sold me my last Cadillac there is a space for a full size spare. He even quoted a price for the rim, tire and tools.
Cadillac’s sales figures tell the story. People are going elsewhere for luxury cars. I know I will next time.
Well those who can do and those who can’t sell.
It is do very common that many in the auto sales market know less than many true auto enthusiast.
Steve may be smarter than most but he is like you letting your own preferences take presadent over where the market is at today.
Hey it happens to all of us. I loved the El Camino and would love to have one today. But I also look at the market and understand they would have trouble moving more than 10k units and the price would make a misprint size truck a better deal with more room. This is why I don’t belly ache about GM not offering EL Camino’s.
As for the spare here is the deal.
WEIGHT!
GM is spending untold hours and dollars to cut weight any and everywhere they can. To be honest nearly all brands this side of Rolks Royce are doing so.
Cars today are not designed for a full size spare unless you are willing to compromise space. It is not about money is is all about weight for mpg.
Yes you can put one in but you will cut into the trunk space. This is why so many cars went to run flat tires. As we know putting a spare in would be cheaper than run flats.
The Alpha platform went through a process to the point the took every bolt and screw and shortened them to the minimal length needed to make them work all in the name of weight. I forget the exact weight but the savings if I recall was over 50 pounds. That is not easy to do in today’s cars without adding cost.
Today the Cadillacs are often lighter and stiffer than anything in class. GM got the platforms right.
Where they got it wrong was the interiors and packages to where they just went cheaper. Mark Ruess fought for better door handles on the CT6 and was shut down. The first thing a buyer touches is the door Handel so you do not want to go cheap there to attract buyers.
The ATS Turbo while a nice engine is not anything different than what was in my HHR SS. You want to attract buyers it should have a Cadillac engine or at the least a Cadillac tune with more power and Torque than my Chevy. Heck I had 300 Hp with the GM Performance Tune.
Anyways Cadillac has had too many leaders and too much interference from the GM board. This is why Mary and Mark brought in JDN and let him put space between Detroit and Cadillac.
I know you crave the old ways but the reality is you are in a vast minority of the market and for Cadilace to reroot and grow into the future they need to offer what the market wants today and in the future.
Like it or not the CUV is what most buyers want. I am not crazy about them either but people like them and the are very usable and versital. My wife now wants nothing but.
I also may not own a Cadillac but I am very well versed in them with many in our family over the years. One close family member got one new one every year and was a retired well ranked GM executive.
I had considered the ATS but I chose the Denali as it was more to my needs. It is hard to haul an engine or Soap Box Derby car in a ATS. THE Denali is much the truck version of the ATS.
I also have many ATS owners at work all under 50 and they love their cars. I think we are up to 5 just on my floor at work now. These are younger people who 10 years ago would never have considered Cadillac.
The truth is to keep many brands alive you have to concede your preferences to the coming buyers. They are the future survival of these companies. I have done do myself on many models.
Like Pontiac. I have owned a long line of Pontiac cars and ones/driven many of the great ones. I hated to see Pontiac die but I get it. This is about survival at GM and as it was Pontiac was a shadow of what it once was. The damage repair would have taken billions to repair them but they would never have seen it come back,
As for Cadillac they are nearly as profitable as trucks do at lower volumes the money is still good and the risk of making it back is much less.
The way it stands Cadillac does not need to be number one to redeem a good profit for GM. They are much like GMC And the Denali line were profits are great.
This is really if picture stuff and there is much to consider here over just your preferences for a bench seat or a full size spare. The success here will be slow as the changes come and the brand needs to earn the trust if new buyers and that takes time and investment.
You are not going you fix Cadillsc with a couple new models and just a couple years. The last 40 years of damage takes time to repair and compelling product yo do it.
Will it all work? Not sure but I will with hold judgement till I see al, the JDN products. It is only fair and wise to judge him on his product as we have yet to see one due to development time.
I hope you can see better where I am coming from here. It is hard to encapsulate this in a short tidy post and even this does not civer all aspects.
I wish people just would step back and take in all that there is to really consider here as this is really much more complex than some would like to make it.
Steve,
You should be running the store. Don’t let anyone convince you that you are off the mark. You come in contact with us everyday. You know what we want and what we absolutely will not tolerate.
RFTs are a joke. I would be thrilled to replace them with normal tires and provide my own full size spare and tools. The danged fools removed the well from the chassis on my CTS. Where would I put the spare? Yeah, I know. That’s where GM can put that next sale.
You are correct on all your points. CUE is an unnecessary annoying distraction. Too many blind spots on the car. Cameras are only a half way solution. You and I know that tech fails. They consider that a money maker for the company. If we crash that’s even better. Total loss=new car. Greedy idiots!
Hang in there with your comments. You know what you are talking about.
Thanks for all your posts.
In case anyone is interested, some say that the Jaguar XF sold 232 units in July. That’s down from 533 in July 2016.
I just confirmed with Jaguar Land Rover that those figures did not originate from them… so take them with a grain of salt or two.
Cadillac need to utilize that 3.0 TT on all their models going forward along with a transmission that changes faster and is more competitive with the ZF-8 Speed in terms of performance. That 3.0TT should have been available in other Cadillacs just as any other automaker does with their engine lineups.
I do hope that the 4.2TT V-8 can be competitive with MB, BMW and Audi’s 4.0TT respectively. Cadillac should not regulate this engine to the CT6 alone, that is very pathetic, as we can see that you have to fight fire with fire. Hence, I hope The CT3 gets 2.0T, 3.0TT and maybe the 3.6TT engines to make it ultra competitive. On the other hand the CT5 should utilize the 2.0T, 3.0TT and a high performance 4.2TT V-8 as the V-spec performer with superlative transmissions to match.
Thirdly, Cadillac should design visual stunners with high class interiors to match the chassis and engine performance of their future lineups. Also, Cadillac should make sure that these new entrance aren’t cramp for space as a complaint that plagues the current cars in their respective segments.
You will see much of this. But I think the V8 will be 4.0 as it works better on NHV.
A good salesman says all that should be said, not all that could be said. Amplify the Positive, and try to figure out the benefits of the negative. The customer wins.
However, when salespeople cannot make money with a product, it is no longer is a benefit to the customer, the figures prove the arguement.
The factory is so busy giving out costs to the consumer, makes me wonder if they believe it is worth the price. I learned a long time ago, You can sell any product on its merit and quality, however, as soon as you start selling it on price, it is Very difficult to sell it on quality again.
Steve as you already know it is a competitive market. Also cars are more expensive than ever and customers are going to look for any savings they can.
When buying my truck I was willing to pay a fair price but I was in no way going to pay sticker. I originally shopped a ZR2 but refused sticker price on a RPO model that is not a limited edition. I found a Denaki that was a more expensive truck and the dealer already had come off the price to where it was the same price as the SLT models the had sitting there. I did get them to toss in a good number of add on items that added value to me. They made money I saved a fair amount and we both won.
Now that was a high volume dealer and they can survive that way.
The reality of mass marketing has changed everything. Same for the web. The old ways of selling are going away like the bench seat with many forms of sales of about anything.
I work for a web company that once was just a small single store. We are international and have had to change with the times. Today the web and Amazon has made us change again. My. Work is in the auto I’ve field and we try to offer what Amazon can’t and we try to remain competitive on price which can be a challenge.
You sound like a honorable guy and one that is getting squeezed by the way things are going. That can be a great delema as the market becomes more ruthless.
In would love to sell people cars but I just can’t be the kind of person it takes today to make a living.
I do feel for you.
Scott3,
The salesman was lying about spare tire facilities. Not a mistake. Just a plain old lie. The SM at the dealership is a lying sensation too. Did you know that tires have no effect on winter driving? Me neither. Only the lying SM knows that one. Someone should tell Cad so they can delete the section on winter tires from the owner’s manual.
I am not here to disparage sales professionals. There are many excellent sales pros. They add much to the customer experience. I bought all my Cads from one. He retired and I was *assigned* to this joker.
As to my personal preferences, when I buy something with my funds for my personal use my preferences are the only consideration.
Cadillac can put the wheels on the roof if it makes them happy. The one in my garage is my last Cadillac.
The poor salesman has long been an issue it is nothing new. It is just human nature and it not going to change.
If anything like most businesses today it is hards to find hard working honest people who can pass a drug test and just show up everyday.
The truth is a good salesman can sell a turd honestly if he is skilled in how to feed a persons excitement as most people are weak and fall for most the tricks if they are average.
Poor salesman are a problem for all brands and a Cadillac is nothing special.
The first step for Cadillac is to get their product to here it has a collective message and relationship. That means compelling styling. Better detail quality and they need to distant themselves from Chevy.
They have a great engine in the LT, the 3.6 and 2.0 but they are not Cadillac engines as they only get some plastic covers and that is it. The 3.0 TT at least has been set aside and is the first Cadillac engine with their own V8 coming soon. It will take time due to cost but they will get their own tools to do the job.
There is no way to get around the platform sharing but they are doing well to make sure they are different from the Chevy. They in my view failed to make their present product different from each other. The slotting of the CT6 and CTS was a total fail as the are just too close together but that was a product of too many managers.
I get what you mean you buy what you want with you money but what you want is not not a Cadillac anymore but nearly all brands as the things you key on are just not available in the market.
I loved my ZQ8 GMC but no one makes a truck with sports suspensions anymore.
I am sure Cadillac would love to retain you but they have to make a choice. Do they sell what the market wants or do they sell what Susan and a few others want? They can not afford both and they have to chose what they can get the highest return on.
Now I am not disparaging what you like but the market has moved on. Cadillac was one of the last to offer what you wanted but you sell them it too large discounts, rebates and leases that drove GM to chapter 11.
You do not have to like what they have but it is not going to change. I am not sure what you will do as what you seek is just going to vanish from the new car market.
I have had to learn to adapt with a changing market and have found that things I thought I would not like very satisfying. Hell I said I would never buy a 4×4 but I own one today. Same god in the last on a Turbo 4 and FWD but I have found good in each.
At this point we all need to just let JDN get his product out and judge it for what it is and look to how they sell it to the public. Nothing is a sure thing but for once I think they will have things closer to where it needs to be.
But it will still take time to earn th e customers trust as they have failed them for decades. Not with all bad cars but some bad and some that just were incomplete of what they needed to be. They have for once on leader, one vision and the funding to do this right and only time will tell if it works.
As for nothing for you I am sorry but to be honest I do not really know we’re to send you to fine what you want. If there is something I do recommend you get it soon as that type of car is going away soon. My in laws have left Cadillac to a 300 and are not happy there. Next is going to be a SUV. The cars the mother in law loves are just gone.
Companies just can’t afford to fill every niche any longer.
scott3,
Cool it with your bench seat fetish. No one here is asking for a bench seat.
I’m not looking to you for direction on my next car purchase. You can rattle and babble as much as you like. That will not change sales numbers for Cadillac.
Cadillac is not selling. That means people don’t want what Cadillac is producing. Plain and simple.
The last time I was in for service the SA and I went for a drive. He introduced the topic of CT6. There must be a big push on for that car. I don’t even want to see it. Cadillac does not back up the car so I am out.
You have no valid standing in this discussion. You refuse to put your money where your mouth is. If Cadillac is so great, buy one.
The length of bolts and screws? No customer gives a flip unless the thing backs out and the car stops. Nobody cares.
GM is trying to reduce weight to get the spiff from the Feds. This is not a customer oriented item. Mark up the danged car to make up for the lost spiff. They jack the price for no reason. This would be acceptable.
How many of your vehicles have no place for a spare? See, no standing in this discussion. I’m not a truck driving woman so I will not comment on your fleet. Your money, your call.
Some model Cadillacs offer an optional compact spare. The weight argument is garbage. People hate the RFT.
Buy a new Cadillac then come back and talk to us.
The bench seat is just a metaphor for thing not relevant for today you crave.
Also not directing you on what to buy. Just explaining reality of today’s market and why you will it get what you want.
My owning a Caddy is irrelevant. They have been on my list but they have not offered me what I really want. i have spent time with nearly all models since the early 60’s and also have worked on them all too. I am no stranger to the brand.
The reduction of weight is to get more MPG as it is critical to all brands. It is for the customer to prevent added taxes being added to the car that add even more to the price.
Also If they fail to continue to increase mpg the government will increase the added taxes and add even more cost to the customer.
While you may not care it would impact sales.
All my cars can take a compact spare none can carry a full size spare and one can not even carry the full size tire if I should have a flat.
Never told you to buy a truck. Did not think you would ever consider one anyways.
Some the compact is optional but the more cars they sell with out adds up with increased mpg.
You don’t need to take my word for it just ask any auto engineer what they would do for even half Of money mpg increase. Look no farther than the start stop feature on cars for mpg, or even a Turbo 4 in a CT 6 for mpg.
Yes people hate rft. They do not Handle as well and they are more expensive but they add mpg as you lose weight and can add trunk space in smaller cars.
One of my cars the spare was optional. They gave you a can of fix a flat and not even RFT.
But then ask me in all the years have driven how many flats I have had. Just two about 30 plus years ago.
Today even if you get a nail it is most times a slow leak. Often it is not even leaking.
You can buy what ever you like. With the complaints I am not sure if anyone out there even makes what you crave.
To be honest stop complaining and buy something else. Cadillac has moved in from you do you should of the same. They did not offer what suited my needs at this point so I bought what did. But with that said I am not going to complain that the did not make what I wanted.
To fix your complaints would be easy buy something else if there is anything left you can deal with anymore. You hold the key to you happiness.
“The bench seat is just a metaphor for thing not relevant for today you crave.”
What exactly is it that I crave? Do tell.
If you feel that expecting a car to move when needed in high speed traffic is too much to ask then we are definitely not on the same page.
This car does not downshift for highway maneuvers. I’ve had service loaners same year, make, model and drive train. They moved. There is something amiss with my car. Hunting for gears takes too long. By the time the correct gear is found it’s too late. I avoid highways when traffic can be anticipated. That is absolutely ridiculous at this price point.
When I know I will be driving the highway in traffic I drive a (gasp) Alfa Romeo. My Alfa moves. My CTS is a slug. Cadillac should make this right.
You don’t have a Cadillac. You don’t know what we deal with now. Buy a Cadillac. Pass judgement then. Maybe you’ll luck up and get one that actually functions as designed.
“Also not directing you on what to buy. Just explaining reality of today’s market and why you will it get what you want.”
I understand the first sentence. The sentence that follows not so much. Please clarify.
“Never told you to buy a truck. Did not think you would ever consider one anyways.”
I didn’t think you told me to buy a truck. You are correct that I don’t have a need for a truck.
I understand the CAFE numbers. It’s a perk for the auto makers if they meed the goals. It’s not a legal requirement.
The full size spare is not an absolute need for me. I want a spare tire. I don’t want to fill the trunk. I want to get rid of the RFT. The lying Cadillac salesman volunteered I can do a full sized spare when I specifically asked about spare tire facilities prior to purchase.
Show me a car with normal tires with the optional compact spare. They were available. Why lie and sell the customer their last Cadillac. Do they get a reward for running off lifetime Cadillac buyers?
The lying service manager tried to spook me into trading this car in on another new Cadillac when I emailed him to clarify if there is a well for a spare. His response did not answer the question. I sent a follow up email. He told me to call him and provided a number.
Phone tag. I left VM. An hour later the dummy called me back. Said he would put me on speaker as he had “my super salesman Angelo in the room”. The dummy (service manager) could have sold me rims and winter tires had he left Angelo out of this. That was my last contact with the selling dealer.
The next day I went to my mechanic. I was referred to the dealer. I swung my arm downward, palm down and said the dealer specializes in alternative facts. The tech explained the winters to me. We talked for awhile. He advised they will not sell winters to me unless they are certain the tires will help. Bring the car back when there is snow on the ground.
When there was snow the owner drove my car to see what it does. The RFT are part of the issue in snow. Guess who sold the winters?
Project What again? JDN is a full of stuff as a Christmas turkey! You can’t possibly appreciate what a Cadillac owner goes through today unless you buy one. It’s a trip!
In the event you ever do purchase a Cadillac I hope you experience is a good one. I don’t wish bad fortune on anyone.
Peace.
I just had another Irate customer who came in, and was very upset that another run-flat tire failed, $341for the tire, plus mounting and balance. He said when this lease ends it will no longer be Cadillac, he is switching go Acura, they are not using Runflat tires and their lease is lower. This following another who called me and said they turned in their CTS and went to Toyota. Tired of the expense.