It’s a pretty common topic we hear and see discussed: the sixth-generation Chevrolet Camaro is a great car, so why is it falling to the sixth-generation Ford Mustang?
While the answers and wisdom may vary, Bob Lutz has penned his thoughts on Road and Track as to why the Mustang has clobbered the Camaro in this generation of the storied pony car war, and it all comes down to one thing, in Lutz’s opinion: design.
“The Camaro, an even better car, sinks into quasi-irrelevance. You can’t tell it from the previous one. ‘The same as before, only smaller’ has never been a winning formula in a fashion-conscious segment. The current Camaro, although fabulous, missed the mark.”
On the other hand, Lutz writes, “The minute I saw the new Mustang and the new Camaro, I knew Ford had won this round. The Mustang is a design masterpiece: sleek, semi-European, yet still a Mustang. Independent rear suspension or not, it is a winner.”
The sixth-generation Camaro’s design has long been a hot topic. It’s not a particularly bad looking car, but it’s very much so an evolution of the fifth-generation car’s looks. The fifth-generation Camaro was new, fresh and hit all the right retro cues. To make matters worse, the Dodge Challenger outsold both the Mustang and Camaro earlier this year.
It’s possible that the refreshed 2019 Camaro won’t be a quick once over. In fact, we think it will sport some major design changes to differentiate the car and reignite the love affair that surrounded the fifth-generation Camaro. In the meantime, we have a few ideas on how Chevrolet can fix slumping Camaro sales, and we discussed this matter in depth during the most-recent Camaro Show podcast.
Comments
How to fix slumping Camaro sales.
Lower the price
Clean up the front and rear styling.
Lower the side belt line
Find some more rear seat legroom
Make the trunk opening a bit larger
Refine the 2.0Turbo
Offer the new 10 speed with the 6.2
Up power on the 6.2 to surpass 2018 Mustang
Improve quality control and customer service experience.
This topic is beat to death so let me join in to pound its fossilized remains. ?
THE 2019 REFRESH CAN’T FIX GEN 6
The biggest gripe is the driving in the bathtub feel of Gen 6. A fix will require extensive reengineering outside the scope of a refresh cycle.
1. Chevy can’t fix the Gen 6 worst in class visibility.
2. Chevy can’t fix the awkward ergonomics. The Gen 6 is essentially designed for people plus or minus an inch or two if 6′.
3. The small back seat is here to stay.
WHAT GM CAN FIX BUT WON’T
1. The high instrument cluster which blocks my view of the road (I’m 5’9″).
2. The MyLink console. It looks cheap. It isn’t remotely sporty. It awkwardly is angled down reflecting your passenger’s crotch.
3. The bloated, premium price. GM has proved no matter how much sales dive they won’t drop the price and much prefer factory shutdowns to manage inventory.
WHAT GM WILL FIX
1. Tweak the front and rear.
2. Bump the horsepower to keep it ahead of the Mustang GT refresh which is likely to match the current Gen 6 at 455 (based upon a Ford ‘Easter egg’).
WHY THINGS WILL GET FAR WORSE IN 2018
1. The big advantage the Gen 6 has is best in class track performance. The 2018 Mustang refresh is shaping up to offer significant performance improvements and improvements in driver engagement. The Camaro may remain on top of track times but the gap will significantly shrink. Also, the GT350 proves track performance may not be as important as driver engagement where it bests the ZL1 based upon a recent review. The GT is borrowing significant tech from the Shelby.
2018 Mustang price increase is now on par with Camaro. Sales race between the two when the 2018 Mustang hits dealer’s lots will be very interesting.
“…it bests the ZL1 based upon a recent review.” One recent review? Are you referring to the Matt Farah “The Smoking Tire” review? That guy has been anti-Camaro, pro-Mustang for years.
Also, Camaro sells more to retail customers than Mustang.
Mackey,
No I was referring to Motor Trend. Maybe you’ve head of it. ?
2018 Mustang prices as follows
Base coupe with 6 speed stick $26485
Base coupe with 10 speed auto 28080
GT coupe with stick 35995
GT coupe with 10 speed 37590
GT Premium stick 39995
GT Premium with 10 speed 41590
Prices for the new mustang may be right at the Camaros price but you are forgetting that Ford markets their cars better and has better incentives as well. Chevy, about a year ago, copied ford and started doing 0percent for their trucks for 72 months, Ford started doing 1.9 for brand new mustangs and 0 ford out going models, something that chevy does here and there yet ford does it year around. Incentives drive people to the mustang. This is why the mustang, since it’s inception, has sold WAY more then the faster Camaro. I bought the new Mustang gt in 2015 2 months after it came out and well below MSRP with no arguments over price. Ford likes to sell cars and will price them to sell including incentives to stay strong in sales. The 6g Camaro is a complete disaster for Chevy. It’s the same trap they are falling into when the Camaro took a break back in 02. PS. Chevy stopped selling Camaros commercially because there is no profit in it.
You have no idea if Chevy makes a profit on the Camaro or not. It has been reported that the Camaro sells more to retail customers than the Mustang. Also, the circumstances were much different when the Camaro was discontinued in 2002. I’ll agree with you regarding the fact that Ford markets their cars better than Chevy.
I think they should add a hatch option. Like a lift back on the Regal or a TT and have the rear seats fold completely flat. You can really fit any one not under 10 back there so why not give the the option for more cargo. That would make the camaro a more livable car to own.
100% design and it’s just not desirable especially compared to a Mustang. To add insult to injury, it has no headroom and you can see out of the damn thing. So it’s off the list until GM decides to build a real car. Not a cartoon.
I will be buying a new car at the end of 2018, either a mustang or the refreshed Camaro. I’m slightly inclined towards mustang at the moment but if the refreshed Camaro adds up 3-4 inches of legroom at the back seat, I’ll definitely buy that. I was gonna buy a car around March 2018 but I’m delaying just to see the refreshed Camaro. I’m a daily driver who would stick with a v6 and frankly think Camaro should drop the turbo since it needs 93 octane hence doesn’t save you the money on the fuel over the v6. For me the visibility is not a big issue, you just get used to it in a couple of weeks. Besides, it’s a Camaro thing and I like that. And of course, the pricing must not go up any further otherwise I would go explore BMW 4 series.
Tell us how you like your new Mustang, because GM won’t be adding more legroom…
That said, the Mustang’s isn’t any better. Nor is the headroom, or the visibility for that matter. GM allowed the styling execution of the green house and interior ergonomics to get out of hand. By doing what ruins most emotionally successful cars..they listened to the owners and design clinics. Who all said “more of the same”.
GM should have headed in the direction of a modern, non-retro V8 sports coupe with light “heritage” cues. Instead Wilburn allowed the studio to go full retard on the 5th gen design.
Sidenote: the 6th gen objectively does look far better, crisper, and fresher than the 5th gen. But only when examined side by side. In passing, and to the laymen, it’s nearly the same.
I’ve owned all three new generation pony cars. The Camaro 2SS, a GT500, and a Challenger RT. By far the Camaro is the least desirable. Besides the before mentioned bad visibility, There is a lack of refinement and half engineered feeling about the car that reflects GM’s “that’s good enough” philosophy. (I’m not talking about a $70,000 1LE). Miscellaneous rattles and odd rumbles are met with “they all do that” when taken to service. I’ve owned two but never again.
$70,000 1LE? The 1LE package is a $6,500 option on a 1SS Camaro. You can buy one (brand new) for ~$42k. Perhaps you’re thinking of the new 2018 ZL1 1LE?
I call ‘BS’ on this one
“I’ve owned all three new generation pony cars. The Camaro 2SS, a GT500, and a Challenger RT. By far the Camaro is the least desirable. Besides the before mentioned bad visibility, There is a lack of refinement and half engineered feeling about the car that reflects GM’s “that’s good enough” philosophy. (I’m not talking about a $70,000 1LE). Miscellaneous rattles and odd rumbles are met with “they all do that” when taken to service.”
The Gen-6 Camaro was noted in all the reviews I have read, as having a solid build quality and noted, also in some reviews, as being better then the Mustang. Ford even addressed those persistent quality issues for 2018.
I recently did a 187 mile round trip in a new SS-1LE and a 1-LS V6. the first part in the SS-1LE and the return trip in the 1-LS. This was over some beautiful twisty roads with compression drops and lifts, hard compound corners, and some freeze damage. Never heard any body noise from the Camaro’s. They seem to be as solid as my BMW’s, I have rented several new Mustangs and can’t say the same.
“I recently did a 187 mile round trip in a new SS-1LE and a 1-LS V6. the first part in the SS-1LE and the return trip in the 1-LS. This was over some beautiful twisty roads with compression drops and lifts, hard compound corners, and some freeze damage. Never heard any body noise from the Camaro’s. They seem to be as solid as my BMW’s, I have rented several new Mustangs and can’t say the same.”
I have to ask, am I the only person who has driven and ridden in the newer Mustang GT and with the exception of the very distant coyote rumble, not noticed anything particularly “sporty” about them. I mean stock off the showroom floor, it falls so short of what the looks and spec sheet promise.
I have a 2011 Ecoboost Ford Flex, and the 2017 GT California Special I experienced rides smoother and softer than my daddymobile. It also leans nearly as much too. I have consistently been underwhelmed with the newer Mustangs dynamic experience on the road. Which is frustrating because I REALLY like the look of them.
I am in a minority when it comes to the 6th gen Camaro though. I greatly prefer it to the 5th gen (which I passed on buying after a test drive) even though it has unacceptably high door sills and an afterthought of a rear seat.
I wish we could get a car with the interior space and visibility of the 04-06 GTO or E92 BMW coupe, yet with non retro styling and performance on par with the current SS1LE. Hopefully GM will bring such car to the fight with the 7th gen Camaro.
Oh Sean…how my heart hurts for a ford fanboy forced to write for a GM publication. Don’t worry, just keep submitting applications with the ford guys….you’re sure to get an interview one of these days.
Sincerely,
Your Dad
Sean’s Dad,
Although I found your post somewhat amusing, clearly you have not been in contact with your son. I am not always in agreement with his opinions on product or state of our nation, but often enough your son is mostly objective in his journalistic rantings. I’m also not so sure you have seen the vehicle he proudly has boasted about in the past, which is a CHEVROLET SS Sedan. Did he not come over to your house and give you a ride after he bought it? Not too sure very many Ford “fanboys”(I hate that word much less having to write it) would be driving around in one of the greatest GM sport sedans the world has ever known.
Wow, feels weird sticking up for Sean. Anyway, get in touch with your son. I’m sure he is eagerly awaiting the connection the two of you are obviously missing.
Have a great day.
Dear MRB,
Being Sean’s dad and all, I tend to keep an eye on his work to ensure he’s on the right path in life. That said, the last three times I’ve checked on my little boy’s progress, I’ve been met with headlines like:
“Bob Lutz discusses why the Ford Mustang has won this generation of the pony car war”
And
2018 Ford Mustang GT makes more power than the Camaro SS
And my personal favorite…
“Ford Flex protects crowd from reckless Camaro”
Now, while Sean may have an SS that he “boasts” about, the obvious truth is that he is quite unhappy with the bow tie he pilots. As his father, his happiness is my priority, so I will continue to nudge him in the right direction (which is to pursue a career in Ford journalism). Personally, I’ve been a follower of the General my whole life, and to see my own kin smear a GM publication with his Ford propaganda makes my stomach turn. I would expect more from a man that started life in my testicles. I only hope he will come out of the closet soon and take ownership of the Ford fan lifestyle he secretly lives, and let us MAKE GM AUTHORITY GREAT AGAIN!
Sean’s Dad
You can send most(all) of the comments here to the trash bin for useless fanboy noise, even Sean’s article, but the real gem here is Sean’s dad. He made it worth the visit.
Kudos to Sean’s dad for his funny, insightful comments on a son still in the growing process. I have two, and I know where he is coming from.
Just to be clear, you’re mad at the author that 1) Bob Lutz says Mustang is winning this battle, and 2) the new Mustang GT has more horsepower than the Camaro SS. That’s idiocy. You’re mad at the author for someone else’s opinion and for a fact. I’m sure my argument will fall on deaf ears, however, since logical thinking clearly is not your strong suit.
I’ve said this all along. The 6th Gen Camaro is merely an evolution of the 5th Gen. Look at every generation of Camaro. The new generation has always been a complete departure from the prior design. I believe GM thought, since the 5th Gen was such a huge hit, let’s give the people more of the same with a few tweaks here and there. Wrong. A brand new design was required. The poor sales speak for themselves. As a Camaro fan and owner, let’s see a new and amazing 7th Gen GM! 🙂
You’re exactly right. As soon as I saw the 6th Gen Camaro I knew they made a mistake. Don’t get me wrong, I actually like the styling and think it’s a great looking car. However, a completely different design was definitely needed. Non car people can’t tell the difference and that’s a problem.
^^^THIS^^^^ THANKYOU!!!
I used to get rebuked to high heaven when I predicted over and over that the new Camaro would not do well if it evolved off the styling of the 5th gen, never-mind that it should depart from the retro bs altogether. Just as the C7 Corvette did. All new, with “heritage nods” here and there.
But now unfortunately, guys like us are being proven right. And I actually prefer the 6th gen to the 5th. But styling wise, it was a move in the wrong direction.
Bob is correct they did not change the car enough looks wise. The retro deal has some what played out.
The way forward for both the Mustang and Camaro is global sales. While the Mustang is doing better it is still dropping in America sales.
The American market has changed as has this segment. Global sales is the only way to increase volumes and even then these cars will have to become more GT like for all taste not just Americans looking for noise and a smoked burn out.
These cars will not get cheaper as they just go not ave the volume. Also they are no longer econo car based. It is easy to keep the price down on a rebidied Nova or Falcon but not on today’s more expensive RWD models.
While their names are the same rpthese are very different cars in a very different world.
The yuppies who clung to these cars are now getting older and are losing interest as getting in and out of these is not easy on a replaced hip.
Younger people in general are not car enthusiast and if we are lucky if they are they can not afford the car or insurance.
The only way the Camaro survives as well the Mustang is to evolve globally in appeal and sales.
Note too global markets are not very retro either,
‘ yuppies ‘_ Hardly. They bought Audi’s, BMW’s, Merc’s, and Volvo’s. Gear Heads bought, kept, cherish, Ponies. Camaro’s, Challenger’s, Cougar’s, Cuda’s, Firebirds, and Mustangs.
My generation were the first generation to buy Ponies, and we still love them even though some, over the years, have moved onto daily driver pick-ups, SUV’s/CUV’s, while still owning a Pony they bought nearly fifty years ago.
My retiring generation, now looks to a new Pony, MX-5, or GT-86/BRZ, ATS-V, some already have made that sporty purchase with the MX-5 so far being the most acquired, though some are seriously looking at purchasing a new Camaro or Mustang.
The yuppies and baby boomers bought most of the pony cars and are all now either have moved on or just got too old for the cars.
Most have gone to SUV and CUV models like most today.
As for the Gt 86 and BRZ it is Aldo like most other coupes struggling for sales. Even the ATS v sedan is a rare sight and the coupe is most often spotted at the auto shows only.
Some of you forget that in the past these pony cars when they were pony cars sold in six figures. Then they also were based on products that sold in even greater numbers. Today that is not happening.
To make a buisness case these cars need to be at or around 100,000 unit per year. That is not happening in the American market and shaky if the global market will help.
What saves the Miata is that half the buyer are women.
In making a buisness case they have to look at what he investment and return and if the coupes keep under performing they will vanished replaced by something that will sell in three times the number making three times the profit.
Most belly ache here about these cars and most not all doing the complaining either don’t own one or never have owned one. Even if they did own one they want yo stick yo an old formula of a V8 powered car at a price you can not even buy a Malibu at today.
Sorry but reality is in play here and it us not working for performance anymore. I in no way say this in pleasure as I make my living in the performance field.
My customers are getting older and older and I hope to reach retirement before we run out of customers.
If you do not believe me just check into the health of the performance parts market. Many companies are gone or merged. Center line wheel just went under. Right now if Holley failed we would lose many of the biggest names in the market. The market has changed and the younger kids have no interest and not enough money if they are interested to do what we used to do on the cheap.
It is not the automakers but the market and buying habits. Like everything else it has changed.
GM is damned if the do and damned if they don’t. If they change the car much they piss off the base. If they change it too little then they do not attract new buyers.
They went very concervitive with a lot of feed back from present owners in the Camaro hobby and that is why you got what you did. They needed to look outside the inner circle of fandango and shoot for them. The old buyers woul buy anyway after some hard feelings. They always do, like on the Corvette they removed the pop up lights and the traditional crowd complained. Yet they still buy.
Reg; “baby boomers bought most(we did) of the pony cars and are ‘all’ now either have moved on or just got ‘too old’ for the cars.”
LMAoff! My brothers, cousins, friends, and acquaintances, all in their mid to late sixties and early seventies, are still banging gears and building cars/trucks/bikes. Several of us still compete in club road races and Lemon’s competition and like to get sideways when we can. We all do the weekly and annual car shows, and the occasional hooligan smoky burnout.
There are several new Mustangs in the group bought by the wives. Only a few don’t own a old or newer Pony, but they all have fun fast cars and bikes. So much for ‘assumptions’.
In the past year I have installed LS376(525-Hp) engines in a SC300, a 92′ and 98′ Z28, a BMW E-21, and several other cars. We are still having fun, more of it then ever before.
Well it is great your small circle of friends are still banging gears. But too many of your age group have left the party head first and many feet first.
We need more like you to save the pony cars and even race events. Have you seen the crowds at most event? No one there. Sponsorship is dwindling just as performance sales.
What is really sad is even the local cruise in is dying. I have been to many e ends this summer where I am in my 50’s and I am the youngest one there.
I took a photo that shows a row of people at the event where they are all sitting in chairs an scooters with their walkers. What was real sad is I count have taken photos of severs
Rows all looking like how they line up the people in the halls of a nursing home. The photo one couple with a cane and walker is in front of a 50th anniversary Camaro.
We do have an event for younger folks here. It is smaller and mostly trucks and imports. Small in size but at least they are trying after not beinging welcomed by the older crowd.
Note too I was shocked when everyone left at 8 PM. We used to close the place down but most can’t see to drive at night. Sad.
It all comes down to two things, priorities and getting laid. In the old days, in order to get laid, you needed a car. GM was the largest company in the world in the 50’s and 60’s. Today, all you need is a phone. GM is now relatively a small company globally and the largest company in the world makes 80% of their money selling phones; Apple. Apples cash holding alone could buy GM six times over. The millennials spend their entire days and free time starring obsessively, mindlessly starring into that little box. There’s really no time left for anything else.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Lol
And the little box takes most of their disposable income.
Well I doubt in 60 years there will be folks gathered around admiring a phone like folks admire a 57 Chevy!
Ed in 60 years I doubt anyone will be gathering around much of any cars of this era.
Regulation and changing technologies may finish much of what we have off.
A 1957 Chevy will be seen only on line.
Bob you are 100% on the mark.
It is proven that the whole social system has changed and now they socialize on line today.
I have a teen here that never leaves home and reluctantly in getting his drivers license.
They all want the fastest internet or phone vs cars.
It is sad but cars are only a way yo get were they have to go and nothing more in most cases.
The only cars the want to own are on Grand Theft Auto.
My son is slowly showing interest and once he is driving on his own I will try to cultivate his interest but the final choice is his.
He is far from an isolated case
I do a lot of wrenching at a buddy’s place on my 3 highly modified cars. These are all really cool vehicles with all kinds of mods. His kids walk by and their friends and they have virtually no interest in what we’re doing. I’m talking guys 17-21 years old who know virtually nothing about cars and don’t live in a big city but a small town. They drive sh*it cars that I would have never driven at their age and would much prefer if mama could still drive them around.
It’s a different world. They have thousands of digital friends. My joke is send your digital friends a message and ask them to help you move and see how many show up. That’s the only real friend you have. Lol
I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum. Two grandchildren who are eighteen and have no interest in obtaining a driver’s license. Both would rather stare at their phone and text someone instead of going somewhere to hang out with friends.
Another grandson who is heavily into cars. Has a 2013 Mustang that he is constantly ordering and installing aftermarket parts for it. Enjoy talking to him about cars, especially the Mustang vs. Camaro rivalry !!
Take care of the grandson he is a rare commodity today.
I have two new hips and can get in and out of my 2009 very easily.
2009 CORVETTE
Yes! This is the problem: Aging Boomers with plastic hips are a big demo for Camaro!
Gen X and Millenials couldn’t care less about their parents ostentatious muscle car, would rather buy German.
Mustang, aside from the silly headlights, ground effects, and interior styling, looks modern, global, sleek: Nothing like dad’s Mustang. Ford car design in general looks European, like an American VW, and I don’t always mean this as a compliment.
GM should have taken Mark Adams for Chevrolet. The current “Heartbeat” design language is inconsistent, hit or miss. Meanwhile, Adams gave Opel a cohesive soul that often bested both VW and Audi.
Camaro is iconic but must also be modern, fun, sexy like Monza concept. Also, with both SS and Impala dying, GM should produce both a coupe and sedan Camaro with possibly a SUV variant. Camaro and Corvette could be powerfully profitable sub brands if aimed at young, upwardly mobile younger shoppers.
Just wait when Gen X and Millenials have to pay for repairs on their precious German cars.
I’ve seen this first hand. They try to put them back together with Chinese parts and rubber bands. LOl
I think GM was behind the 8-Ball with Camaro 6… they had to make the move from Zeta to Alpha (a SERIOUS engineering effort)… so I wonder if the folks inside just said, “That’s enough of a bite for this generational jump… keep the looks similar, tweak a bit but the bulk of the effort needs to go to Alpha and performance.” Want to know why I think that’s what happened?
Because everyone beat GM within an inch of it’s life with how fat, porky, overweight, etc. the Camaro 5 was at birth. They responded and we got what we asked for… an amazingly engineered vehicle that raises the bar across the board on performance… but that was all the effort they had to give.
The 2019 MCE will not be Camaro 6.5…. more like Camaro 6.25. I’m guessing a lot of folks are back in Ren Center working on the aesthetics and ergonomics of Camaro 7… leave them working there. Also, you can’t add 4 inches of legroom or 2 inches of height (or lower the beltline) without significant platform engineering effort so that isn’t in the cards for the 2019 MCE. Let’s call this what it is… an amazingly engineered platform that delivers STUNNING performance numbers… just wrapped in 8 year old clothes.
Another area I think GM messed up… the last few years of Camaro 5 they started tweaking the looks of that generation.. they narrowed the front headlight area and changed the tail lights. Take a 2012 Camaro and put it next to a 2016… look at them from all angles. They look different. Now take a 2015 Camaro and do the same with the 2016. They’re darned near identical. It’s almost as if GM wanted to morph the Camaro 5 looks early as to literally (and purposefully) make people think there was no change whatsoever between Gen 5 and Gen 6, and THAT was the boneheaded decision, IMHO.
Frankly, I only purchased the SS because it was built on a new platform. With 455 HP I knew It would be a beast and handle like a rat in a drainpipe.
But, in hindsight, all things considered, I surmise that it will all absolutely KILL my resale value. That SUCKS.
Mustang took the American pony car global with a sleek and seamless design.
Dodge went full on retro with Challenger and spoke to the American heartland.
Camaro is all about Ruess loving Evolutionary Design, trying to ride on the coat tails of last year’s success. It is mechanically the best car, the most fun to drive, but looks matter.
The GEN 6 Camaro needs a nose job as this could have been accomplished with just a new redesigned nose cap that would give the the Camaro a sleeker look and it’s anyone’s guess on how much will be done for the 2019 refreshing as you may never know as Chevrolet may just double down and concentrate on the Camaro’s suspension to get even faster on the Nurburgring.
“The Camaro falls short on design,” An absolute statement by an arbiter of design language, no, a personal opinion and should be written as so.
As a designer, I quite like the Mustang design especially the 2018 refresh, but the Camaro design is more purposeful then retro, and therefore more interesting in understanding its purpose and development/execution.
As a long time BMW owner, I will be buying the Camaro because of the drive feel and capabilities. The Mustang falls far short of the Camaro in those regimes and after years of driving BMW’s, I have to have that highly capable, solid, sure footed feel, plus that sporty composure that the sedan like Mustang doesn’t exhibit.
I absolutely agree with the above comments. Now I can’t speak to rattles and such on the new platform but my 5th gen is wonderful and no troubles. It in fact has won many awards for quality.
Driving wise and such it kills the mustang. Everyone says it. Problem is the average public buys a car on price and looks. Must people thought the new Camaro looked good until it lost the sales wars and an article like this comes out and everyone jumps on the Camaro is ugly band wagon.
Most people buy the 6 cylinder or the basic SS, when they see that the mustang costs thousands less that’s it and when they see the dodge is running even better deals then bye bye Camaro
Don’t kid yourself GM Most people don’t care about setting lap records
Lower the price, lower the price, lower the price.
Also by the way the Mustang had a big head start on it’s intro with their new generation car, lots of momentum there.
Dodge pulled a brilliant maneuver with the Hellcat Kitty. Again most hot rodders are street people not track people.
Stop making the Camaro play second fiddle to the Corvette power wise.
If you think things are bad for the Camaro now wait till the ford Gt500 comes out, even if it can’t beat the Camaro around a track it will be 725 hp and there goes the ZL1 sales again.
Sounds like 2012 all over again.
By the way I love my 2013 2SS 1LE Camaro. Plan on keeping her and adding about 250 whrp with a whipple and such.
Again, it’s not the looks its the price.
Jim
Regarding the price differential.
Since I have been seriously interested in purchasing either the Camaro or the Mustang, I have thoroughly analyzed what you get for your Pony bucks. The Camaro has considerably more content in the base model and trim upgrades, and options and that is reflected in the price. Some standard equipment on the Camaro, you can’t even get on the Mustang until 2018.
So lets be fair and not partisan on this ‘Pricing’ issue. Educate yourself before you make baseless fan boy comments, other wise it is just useless noise.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong by the statement about design.
I don’t think anyone is saying it doesn’t look GOOD, but well…
I’ve owned 2 camaro C5s and many earlier ones. I don’t think I’ve EVER seen a 6th gen. Now of course I have seen 6th gens, but I never recognized them as 6th gens because I can’t tell them apart from the 5th gens.
To me its kind of like dating. I know many guys and girls that say all they want is someone with a good sense of humor and a nice personality, yet all those people get in the “Friend zone” and they date the good looking jerk.
this is the 6th gen camaro. its everything people said they wanted, but it really isn’t what they wanted. The journalists who say its great aren’t buyers, and the sports car people who say its a winner aren’t buyers. The buyers are buying an image. Very few if any will ever even track it, and most buyers don’t even know how to change their own oil.
the fact of the matter is that the look and the image is more important than the soul when it comes to sales.
No one is saying the Camaro6 isn’t a good looking car. Its a great looking car, but its a continuation of the old design. Only a true enthusiast and automotive expert can tell the difference between a C6 and a C5, so for most of the world, this car is on its 8th year.
The Deuce,
The 2018 Mustang GT refresh looks like a very significant improvement from a performance and driver engagement perspective. I wouldn’t buy a Camaro until it’s out for comparison.
The Ford Mustang already is the better daily driver. There’s no doubt Ford is going to make the GT as fun or more fun to drive than the Camaro for less money.
I suspect the Camaro will remain the better track animal due to its weight advantage and a slight horsepower/torque advantage. And also because, in the spirit of what GT implies, Ford is out to design a more balanced car while GM is obsessed with tuning for Nurburing lap times.
If they made it look like the Buick Avista it will sale
I would love to see the current underpinnings of the Camaro under a car that carried on the look of the Gen 3 or 4 cars!
Everyone has subjective opinions here. So now put yourself in GM’s shoes. Just read what we have here. Hardly two opinions the same here as everyone wants just something a little different.
The car as it is is not an ogre. It looks like the gen 5 that was a very good selling car but the problem is all the 5th gen owners out there see a car much like what they ready have. So why upgrade?
The real key is to attract new customers as the old ones are going awaybone way or the other.
New direction styling that will appeal globally and selling it everywhere will be key.
To be honest a FNR-X styled CUV would out sell a Camaro and Mustang combine.
This may be the future of the segment If the old formula does not improve. Coupes are just a dying breed. Everyone loves them and wants them but no one is buying them. Can’t hardly sell a two door truck anymore.
Raise the roof and get rid of that cheap looking dashboard and steering wheel.
I drove a rented 1SS a couple weeks back, and it was an absolute blast to drive! However, it’s true, the visibility is atrocious, particularly when trying to merge right. Most disappointing, however, was the profoundly cheap interior. During my experience, not one, but TWO separate interior trim pieces detached. The passenger’s left knee rest, plastic in the 1SS (optional leather), came undone, but I was able to snap it back into place. I wasn’t able to reattach the passenger A-Pillar trim piece, however, which came undone up top and refused to snap back on. The entire interior, save for the excellent feeling steering wheel, felt reminiscent of what you would experience in a Chevy Sonic. The Camaro ranks third place here, in my opinion. Challenger first, Mustang second. The Challenger has a rubberized, soft-touch dashboard and actual metal trim.
One positive I can say is that the 1SS looked quite good in bright red.
Okay, kids and Sean’s Dad, don’t get upset that a GM journalist repeated a former GM exec’s opinion about the Mustang/Camaro. You disagree? Go buy a Camaro. Vote with your wallet, because amusing though it is, your enthusiasm isn’t selling Camaros.
As a Mustang owner/fanatic, I know that the Camaro being sold, and a great car, makes my beloved Mustang a better car through competition.
Please, now that GM is willing to slay entire divisions like Pontiac and Oldsmobile, and has let the Camaro die in the past, I’m begging you people to buy more Camaros. 2003 was a sad year, let’s not go through that again, please?
Lutz is right in that the 6th Gen does not differentiate much from the refreshed 5th Gen (2014 &2015 MY’s)
Other than that, a lot of the complaints by posters on here about the Camaro are way overstated.
High Belt Line?? Same height as the Mustang’s….the Camaro just has a lower roof line than the Mustang
Lack of leg room in back seat?? THe pony cars never had much room in the rear. the only reason the 5th gen Camaro had a bigger back seat was due to having the Zeta platform, thus making the 5th gen Camaro too big
Price?? the Camaro 2SS is loaded, you need to check more boxes off to get the same Mustang. (this one is hurting sales a bit)
Looks/Style?? The front fascia looks like most of the Chevrolet Line-up along with the Malibu, Cruze, Trax……..the Rear of the car is similar to the Vette and Malibu taillight wise.
Visibility?? Umm most coups are tough to see due to the B & C pillar. The car is based on style.
The Camaro, Mustang, Challenger along with the Caddy ATS and some others are the last of the 2-door coups. The Camaro still looks way better than most cars for all it’s faults.
Lighten up people.
Let me see, I had a 2015 Mustang GT, did not love it, felt heavy, not nimble, and made all kinds of odd and not good noises.
Tried to buy a Challenger RT, Dodge hates me and I am never able to work out the deal.
On a whim one weeknight, My son and I test drove a 2017 Camaro 2.0 Turbo RS, well, its was more fun to drive real world than the Mustang, no weirdo noises coming from somewhere behind the dash and under the seats and so on. I also think it looks absolutely beautiful, and I like the feel of the interior and vision out of it, I can see what I need to see when I need to see it.
I also love the 8″ screen, looks much better than the Ford and Dodge and the sound that comes out of the Bose speakers is really pretty amazing in my book. The interior is much more creative and sporty to me than the Mustang I had.
All said I am really really happy with my Turbo Camaro and all for just under $27,000 with the RS 50th Pkg and Bose System.