Five Ideas How To Fix The Chevrolet Camaro
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In a world of $70,000 Chevrolet Camaros that slice through road courses, we think it’s a good time to reflect what was so great about the muscle car segment. None of us on staff were around for the sixties, or seventies, but those who were won’t cease bringing up the enchanting scenario of driving off the lot with 350 cubic inches under the hood for a couple grand. And then street racing it on Woodward Avenue. Today, people are still doing the same thing. Although using a road-course-intent Camaro that costs more than a Corvette Grand Sport to run light-to-lights seems rather misappropriated. While true that the Camaro has been officially involved in SCCA/Trans-Am road racing since its first generation, it’s also true that the relative performance:dollar ratio was more affordable. These days it seems that the Camaro is perhaps too good, and a bit ahead of its cachet when it comes to the price. One could argue that there’s been too much focus on breaking glass ceilings and not enough on the entry point.
Get The V8 MSRP Down
This is what we mean by focusing on the entry point. $37,995 is the lowest price that somebody can buy a 2018 Chevrolet Camaro with an LT1 V8 engine. Dodge will sell you a 5.7L Hemi V8 Challenger for five-grand less, and a Mustang GT can be had for as little as $34,095 with destination. No, it doesn’t matter that the Camaro SS is the superior performance car and possesses nearly 100 more horsepower than the Dodge. Like the Camaro, the Challenger and Mustang are tied to a muscle car heritage, and that means a V8 will always be one of the main reasons for purchasing one. At least Dodge continues to be the brand selling eight-pots at the most agreeable price, even if they have the fewest ponies.
Relax On The Road Courses
Today, GM makes some of the best performance cars in the world. Not just for the money, either. For instance, a Camaro just ran a 7:16 on the Nürburgring. A Camaro. 7:16. Camaro ZL1 1LE. That’s beyond-words insane. Did anybody, 10 years ago, ever think a Camaro would be well ahead of the Ferrari Enzo on the ‘Ring lap leaderboard? Likely not. But, how far will such a feat go into marketing the car? How many Camaro buyers will understand what that time even means?
How many units of the Camaro are sold in Europe? Very little. How many customers take their Camaro to the road course, as opposed to the drag strip? Very little. It’s very likely that the greatest road course enthusiasts and the best drivers that the Camaro will most likely saddle is the Camaro development team themselves. And hats off to them for creating the fastest road-course pony car that the world has ever known. But the folks over at Auburn Hills seem to recognize something a little more intrinsic to this space. Which brings us to our next suggestion…
Build A Dodge Demon Rival
Preparing the daily content rollout of this amazing website involves countless hours of sifting through the never-ending sand pile of automotive-related stories, press releases, and reports all over the internet. If there’s a car-related story that goes up on the internet somewhere, we probably saw it. It’s with that level of observation that we can say that the sixth-generation Camaro ZL1 1LE just hasn’t grabbed as many headlines or captured a hype wave that the Dodge Demon has been able to. It turns out all the muscle car world wanted was an 840 horsepower road-legal rocket ship from the factory that goes fast in a straight line. The answer should have been more obvious.
It’s a car, denied approval by the NHRA, that has inadvertently fired up the aftermarket, seeing if a tuning shop can make somebody’s Camaro or Corvette or Mustang “as fast as a Demon.” Why? So they can take it to (impressively popular) non-sanctioned racing events like Texas Mile. Not an NHRA doorslammer competition, which many of our colleagues naively think that’s what the Demon was built for. These unsanctioned speed events might seem like a Neanderthal rock throwing competition from the perspective of road-course-racing connoisseurs, but the sound of their umbrage merely bounces off empty bleachers of their rented tracks.
How can the Camaro team capitalize? By building an insane, road-legal dragster of their own. Somewhere between the COPO and the ZL1, perhaps. And make every option $1, because that’s hilarious. Not everybody would be able to own one, but the halo effect of a road legal dragster feels stronger than the halo effect of a road legal track car.
Distance Design From Gen 5
One universal observation that the folks at Chevrolet don’t mind admitting is that the sixth-generation Camaro looks far too similar to its predecessor. A sharper, thinner, sleeker looking version to be sure, but the profile and fascia designs are nearly identical to passers-by, and does little to suggest that things are all-new under the sheetmetal. Some believe this is what has deterred potential buyers from choosing the Camaro over other options. Hopefully the incoming 2019 Camaro refresh can both address that fluke, and turn buyers back on with its fresh looks. At the same time, the whole segment has to pick itself back up, which adds to the challenge.
Make The Base Engine Better
The 2.0L LTG turbo-four cylinder base offering continues to be a hard swallow for hardcore Camaro customers and potential buyers. It is the most affordable powertrain entry for the car, delivers impeccable balance to the chassis, and returns decent fuel economy. But it can still leave more to be desired. Even with an exhaust tune to sound sportier and/or a horsepower bump, most were probably hoping that the four-cylinder Camaro days would stay in the past. And it needs to be stressed that it’s not about the power, or fuel economy, or the feats of engineering that went into the LTG, but simply that certain muscle car stereotypes will continue to direct the market. A four cylinder Camaro is, still, a four cylinder Camaro.
Perhaps therein lays the rub. The Camaro is an iconic nameplate, but with that comes legacies, both good and bad for today’s market. The Camaro name still implies easy access to V8 power that popularized the American muscle car segment. The Camaro of today holds that power on a higher shelf. So while the reality is that Chevrolet has to operate in an over-regulated environment led by the EPA/CAFE fun police, hopefully there can be a way for the company to figure out how to attract buyers to the car before lingering regulations and a downward market choke out the business case.
Readers’ Suggestion: More Effective Marketing
Many of you in the comments have pointed out that Chevrolet hasn’t done much visible marketing/advertising for the sixth-generation Camaro. Therefore buyers are either not as excited about the Camaro as they should be, or as educated on the car as they should be, or both. The ‘Real People’ segment doesn’t seem like a good fit for the message a car like this needs, so here’s to hoping the Chevy can think outside the box and excite buyers on how great of a performance car the Camaro is.
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When I clicked the link I was ready to say, “Who does this stupid author think he is CAMARO DOESN’T NEED FIXED, PEOPLE DO.”
Then after reading it, I changed my tone. I like this article.
to sum up what I read, “The Camaro is the Answer to the Question No One Is Asking”
The Camaro is AWESOME, and perfect for the buyer that doesn’t exist. thats kind of the point. I complain that bean counters destroy products, but know what else destroys products? Not sticking to your customer’s needs.
If customers don’t value a track monster, why build one? I mean seriously, I’ve owned THREE camaros, and I doubt I’d buy one today… I’d rather have a corvette.
Today the Camaro is playing where the corvettes supposed to be playing. It advertises on the same pitch that the corvette advertises on. Its priced in the same ballpark as the corvette.
At the same time it vacates the buyers… The buyers are Blue Collar nostalgic dreamers, most of which don’t even DREAM of going to the track.
I don’t even LIKE dodge, but some how they seem like the only brand that gets it. In 2010, The Challenger seemed like a rip-off. It cost like 10 grand more than the camaro. Today, its cheaper, and their marketing is all about nostalgia, big engines, and drag strips. The Challenger is telling the right story, despite it being a piece of junk from a junky company.
Now on the camaro forums, most people seem to think they are trying to move the camaro up market so they can move the corvette up market. This is the only thing that seems to make sense (so either they are stupid or they are trying something crazy). If the Corvette is going rear-engine, and the price is hitting the mid 100s, then it may make sense to have the camaro occupying the old corvette spot…
But I disagree with that play. Your camaro buyers are nastalgic blue collar workers. Your corvette buyers are older blue collar workers. You make more than 10 grand per sale. why not stick with what works, and if you want to compete with the ferraris then launch a new higher end product instead of trying to move the other two up market? (IE like the corvette zora??)
I think you hit the nail on the head though.
The issue is with the segment not the Camaro.
Building a Demon is not an answer. Cool yes but it will not increase sales. The media is bigger than Demon sales. They already have a COPO now.
Yes they can change the design but there is always the inherit risk here. I had wished they has moved away more from the retro look but I understand why they didn’t.
The base engine is fine. Make it 300 HP. The real issue is most people able to afford and want this car is going to buy a V8 in an era wher automakers are working to try to get people into smaller engines.
The segment is dying as boomers are getting older. Let’s face it young people can not afford these cars or the insurance. Also many younger buyers are just happy in a Honda or Kia.
The fact is the only real growth is in the CUV segment and GM knows it. Anyone noticed the FNR-X is looking much like a Camaro but is not only a hybrid but a CUV. There is a real reason for that.
Chevy and Ford both really want to kove100k units of their models but the reality is they are on the decline. Dodge sales are up but they were never great to begin with.
The truth is performance is a dying segment. Automakers are all scrambling to see if the can find a way to still offer it in a affodible way and still make money doing it. They also need to do it while increasing MPG too. Not an easy task.
Just look at the average pony car buyer they are 45-80 years old today few are in their 20’s.
I have a truck that cost as much as an SS. I love the Camaro but I needed something that offered more than just going fast. I needed to carry people and cargo. The truck does that much better.i have a play car but it is older and paid for. It also is much cheaper and easier to work on and exempt from emissions.
I’m a young millennial and ill tell you one thing, that is I really want a camaro, its just that I cant afford one. If the market was better and young guns like me could get a reasonable job, than cameros would be flying off the shelves. Most of us are in too much college debt to do what we want. If the economy were to improve so we could all have jobs or if High schools actually decided to make their diplomas worth a buck, you would see a drastic increase to the performance segment. By the time ill be able to afford a muscle car ill probably be married with two kids and it wouldn’t make any sense.
That is what I mean the markets has changed.
The truth is there are few cars you cabin afford at a young age anymore. The economy has moved to where many people of many ages can not own a new car.
Heck my parents had a new car every year and I can not afford to do what they did.
Add that to the fact the Camaro is no longer based on a cheap economy car.
Then top that off with coupes that most companies are killing unless they are very expensive to better support the low volume.
And I appreciate you like the Camaro but you are a rare type anymore in a day and age many kids do not get a drivers license till they are 20 or older.
Even if you can afford the car the insurance may also kill it for you. I could afford a new TA in the 80’s but the insurance was too much even with no tickets or crashes.
It is just a bad combination of things that has prevented the Camaro to adapt to the market today. Also the traditional buyers also do not line change but with the lack of change it is killing the beast along the way.
This is about a lot more than just seeing out, styling, price. It is al, this along with economic and cultural changes.
Ford has reached out to Europe to increase volumes. GM has gone yo China, S Korea and look like they will reach out to Holden in the next gen.
If the global reach does not work the Mustang and Camaro my be in jelordy if the do not maintain profitable margines.
Just making money is not enough anymore. Even a famed name plate needs to make a buisness case that shows it can make more money than other options.
To the people that are complaining about price, this is the way it’s supposed to be! High performance cars are not supposed to be affordable for 20 year old kids! We are not talking about 200/250 hp cars of the 80’s we are talking about 450/650 hp cars today.
There’s no way the v8 camaro of today needs to sell anywhere near 25k. If you can’t afford it then do without, go but a cruze until you grow up!
High performance cars should be for the big boys not little kids! And if you have a family and you can’t squeeze your family into a Camaro then you should of thought about your life choices!
Well it used to be American performance cars were the cheap performance cars of the world. Take a Tempest add a 389 and have a car that could match a Ferrari 0-60.
Many people think that should still hold true. But look at what $20k buys today… not much. Like I stated the average price today is $35k but none are cheap.
Then you add things today like all aluminum engine and blocks that are better than what was in the performace book 30 years ago. Then look at the special platform the have had yo make because there is no cheap model to base it on anymore.
Then you have to sell at a higher price because even cheaper the volumes would not cover the needed profits to build such a car.
This segment is now limited on several levels.
There was a time the MFG had considered making these cars FWD performance cars. Ford had the Probe set yo replace the Mustang. GM had the GM 80 program that was canceled.
I do not believe either car would have survived to today. We know the Probe did not.
But even today to do a performance car. In this segment would still price it to $30-$40k.
In this day everyone wants to make more money it also drives the prices of everything else. Every time a wage goes up the price of anything related also hoes up.
It’s a question of evolution… It’s time for Camaro to stop trying to be a Camaro. The Gen 5 worked because of the nostalgia but all of the folks who were in love with that look probably already have one. Time for a clean sheet of paper design while keeping the amazing mechanicals. The exterior is better than the Gen 5 but still cartoonish and the interior is abysmal. Get the designers who did the Buick Avista Coupe concept and let them take that course with a more aggressive Chevy design language and look forward and leave the past behind.
That may be true, but the Camaro nameplate comes with implications. If something you want brings little to no characteristics that the Camaro is known for, it’s not really a Camaro at all. So it shouldn’t be called that if that’s the case.
I respectfully disagree… The hatchback model from the 80’s had little in common with the original with the exception of the 2+2 setup and the availability of a performance V8 variant. It just has to be a great car – it is already from a mechanical standpoint – but the design needs to look forward, not back.
If the name doesn’t uphold the galvanized image of a product, negativity occurs. Look no further than the new FWD “Holden Commodore.”
Hardware wise the 6th gen is the pinnacle and the price is reflective of that.
It needs to be more dd friendly. More usable back seat, trunk and visibility. The styling is off too.
I’ve said this before and been insulted for it, oh well, truth is still true.
I was going to buy a Camaro6. I had the money saved and ready. I have a history of supporting GM racing at Bathurst and LeMans, Aussie Brocky and Doug Fehan are my heros. But I thought the Commodore chassis of Camaro5 was agriculturally heavy, and the styling was cartoonish but ok. Oppenheiser said 6 was going to be “substantially lighter”.
Then I saw a Camaro6 in the metal. I looked for the massive HotWheels box it must have just come out of. I read here on GMA how Ed Welburn just let Transformers Director Michael Bay be the final decider on the styling, so of course he chose the most appropriate for his 7yo boy audience. I read the V8 weight figures showing a paltry 180lb weight loss. After all that weight-loss hype, this was extremely disappointing. S’funny how little we have heard of weight since the release compared to beforehand.
So I visited dealers of other brands. I didn’t even bother testing a 228i because that weighs only a few kilo’s less than a 428i. Miata’s are toys for jockeys. Can’t afford a Porsche of course. I drove an FR-S and surprised the salesman by actually pointing the rev-counter north of 5000, he was bouncing all over the back seat (yes he did fit behind my passenger) with excitement. He said “how did you make this car go like that? No other customers have got that out of it” so I pointed at the rev-counter.
And I bought it. I’ve loved it ever since. It makes my former E92 335i feel like what it was, a large porky sedan with only 2 doors. That’s what a 3800lb Camaro6 is, a really well suspended LARGE family sedan with only 2 doors, and the same room in the back as my FR-S…
Whatever happened to the Code130?
Seems as though you were wanting something the Camaro never was. Which is completely OK to want something different. But Camaro never really was in that Miata, FR-S line of cars.
Now the Camaro is around 3350 lbs in base trim & engine. But starting adding a few options & a couple of cylinders & it does not take long to add 400 lbs.
I wanted the “substantially lighter” Camaro that Oppenheiser and Mark “We do what we say we’ll do” Reuss said they’d do. However, you’re right, that car never existed, did it?
I agree with all your points.
HID’s with the LED pipes should be standard. The base headlights look cheap, and dorky as if Chevrolet is trying to nickle and dime all of it’s customers. As apposed to the Mustang having them as standard even on base models.
Offer a complete LED headlight option.
Design wise the BASE Camaro looks extremely weak. Especially the base rims…Gross and cheap as hell looking.
IMHO the most important need for the Camaro…Needs soft touch materials throughout the interior. It’s embarrassingly bad in there. Its 2017 not 1995
I understand it offers good tech (which you pay for) but the materials are garbage for that kind of money it sells for.
Give us color choices for the interior Instrument panel.
The Dodge is on fire due to to great advertising and by far the best interior (materials wise) in that segmant.
The Dodge sells due to massive and I mean massive discounts. Sell cheaper than the competition has always been their strategy and nothing has changed.
They also CAN sell it cheaper which means you have to give them business props.
There’s two ways to increase profit: Raise revenues, or decrease expenses.
Chevrolet is raising revenues (charging more). Dodge decreased expenses (slow platform changes and less significant R&D budgets = lower costs must be made up by revenues)
I think this is one of the RARE markets (“Muscle cars” – I know its a pony car) where lower costs (and a lower price) isn’t a bad strategy, especially when high investments mean high prices to recover.
If I wanted to buy a car with great interior I would buy a Buick or Cadillac! But this is a muscle car why can’t this concept get threw your thick heads?
This is a performance car from the beginning to the end, it’s not a luxury car! It doesn’t need interiors that a high end Cadillac has or better!
I know one thing is for sure I don’t want any of you guys designing the next camaro
So Ford, Honda, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Nissan, kia, Mazda, and basically every single automaker except for Chevrolet is wrong huh?
Any model from basically every single automaker has soft touch materials all throughout the interior dash. The instrument panel is a joke in the Camaro. A complete joke. Design wise it nice though.
If I spend 50K or more I want everything to be as great as possible. Hence why customers are choosing the Mustang and the Challanger even though the Camaro is the all around better performing car. That’s how embarrassingly awful the material in the Camaros cabin is.
90% of the people that purchase these vehicles do not go to Leguna Seca to race. They want to know that their car has the most bragging rights but when it comes to day to day driving, it’s the interior that mostly matters and obviously the looks inside out.
I have a Camaro for looks and for the drivability . Don’t care that I can’t put 4 people in it in comfort lol just two my wife and I . She drives and handles like a track car that’s why I own it. Looks and fun to drive . Thanks Chevy for a great car
Finally people that actually get what a camaro is built for! Not to haul a bunch of kids or adults around, not to haul a bunch of bags around, not to sit up high.
It’s supposed to be fast, handle great, and look good while doing that! Why people try to force GM to change what the camaro is makes me wonder if these people have any intelligence.
If you need more room then you don’t need a camaro, stop trying to change the camaro and go buy a minivan for all of your stuff and people you want to haul around.
Why can’t people just leave the camaro alone?
I gave you a thumbs up, but you almost lost me with the “Best interior (materials wise)” comment.
My co-worker got rid of his 392 Challenger because the glove compartment wouldnt close, or stay closed, among other things. I personallly like the Mopars, but all my reasons are for whats under the hood, and which wheels are being powered. Quality isnt even a consideration when it comes to the LX cars.
Price, visibility, no back seat space and the comical small trunk opening are not helping the generation. The styling also needs work and as mentioned the base engine needs to sound more refined and perform better.
Price why is this a thing that needs to be fixed if you want a V8 your going to have to pay!
Back seat! Wow I hear this all the time!
IF YOU WANT A CAR WITH A BIG BACK SEAT THEN WHY ARE YOU BUYING A MUSCLE CAR?
Trunk again why are you buying a muscle car for a big trunk?
Visibility this agreement is pathetic I’ve driven plenty of the C5, C6 camaros there is zero visibility issues unless you are a driver that doesn’t know how to set up your mirrors.
Base engine REALLY? It’s got 300 hp people who choose the base model should be thankful it has that much.
I could go on but what’s the point, people want the camaro to be everything it’s not built for.
It’s a muscle car, it’s supposed to be fast, handle, and turn heads.
It’s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet, plush!
Brian,
In response to your back seat question; A salary that can afford a Camaro and probably just as important the insurance on a camaro comes with age; just as kids do. I can afford a second or third vehicle, my first is a 8 passenger SUV, my second is a 4×4 extended cab truck, . I really don’t use the truck anymore, and would so traded it for fun car however it still needs to be able to seat 3- 4 and seat them reasonably comfortably. I have the eight seater so I can car pool, I have no interest in a 4 door car like example the SS, don’t tell me what to drive. And quite frankly people like me have the cash to buy these cars with all the options and that is whom Ford, GM and FCA want in their show rooms. If enough people like me buy the loaded models, they can afford to sell the stripped down models for people like you. I get it many people today believe the world revolves around them and they don’t care about anyone else. However successful people like myself got that way by considering others, and I don’t buy a vehicle solely for myself, I could true, but why not bring more people along? I get in the back seat of every vehicle before I ask to I test drive and if I don’t think it’s comfortable I stop looking at that vehicle then and there. Even more so, what I don’t get about you is don’t you have friends? Don’t you and your friends go places together? I have a lot of friends, and we have girlfriends, wives and kids. We road trip to the beach, to the mountains, into town, the Camaro simply cannot do those tasks, A Mustang or Challenger can, both actually do them quite well. And as far as your comfy comment, seriously? I would not buy the base versions of either the Camaro or Mustang (I own a Mustang, though I did shop the Camaro first), the Premium Mustang GT I own has among the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in – standard premium seats. To be honest I have found, I love that car not really because it’s a Mustang, it is so well thought out driving it is bliss, it so surprasses my expectations whether just hopping in and driving to the grocery or road tripping to key west. Ford has me for life, unless they do something stupid like miniaturize it like GM did the Camaro.
I find I have no trouble seeing in my car and the car was bought for my wife and I how much space do I need it really does what it was intended for goes fast , holds the road and looks great doing it. I love the looks of this car or I would not have bought her. Thanks Chevy
I wanted one in the worst way. But couldn’t justify it due the lack of back seat for my kids.
I would never worry about the back seat of a car my kids are going to ride in! It’s got seat belts right that’s all it needs!
But kids have legs, something the Camaro designers didn’t think of.
If a person is buying a camaro to be a family car then that person is a moron not GM!
Would you buy a 2 seater for a family car? No! Why because it’s not designed to be a family car.
In the same way as GM didn’t design the camaro to be a family car. That’s why the back seat is so small which is the way it’s supposed to be
The issue is, usability, visabilty, and buyability. I’ve owned four camaros, 1973, 1980, 1992 and 1999.
1) usability- as the trunks where shallow on the second gens, they were still a bit wide. As the trunk on the third and fourth gens, they moved to a hatch back designed and freed up more space. Maybe the new Camaro should consider going to a hatch back.
2) visabilty- I’m times are people going to complain about it before GM does anything. Sitting in it is a little clostfobic, it’s like a corvette, but thats not the demagraphic. The glass does not go up far enough, it’s like the headliner is reaches down to far, and the side windows does up to my shoulder. They need to give the front windsheild a bigger rack and have the glass go farther up roof. As for the side windows, they just need to lower the damn belt line already.
3) Buyability- When I was pricing out the SS out with a couple of options in 2010 it came in at $34K. Now the SS starts at $37k.
Now I’m in my early 30’s and started a small family, the Camaro is out of the question. But if GM had addressed these issues it maybe a an easer sell to the wife. and for the recorded a baby seat fits just fine in the back of a 3rd gen camaro and there is room for a scroller in the hatch.
I just proof read my own message.
Good God, sorry about that, I was multitasking.
Really dude sell it to the wife? I have never sold any of the cars I have owned
TO THE WIFE!
It’s a big family purchase and both of us need to agree on it, that is how we operate.
She is currently trying to sell me on why we need a new Tahoe. Which is another vehicle GM has priced us out of ( base price $46k,…really? and I’ve never seen a base model at a dealership).
She says we “need” a Tahoe, I say okay, we can pick up an 2005 Tahoe right now, cash. And she comes back with no, like a New Tahoe.
hmmm… If thats the case then I don’t think we Need a Tahoe, she just Wants a New Tahoe, lol.
new traverse is coming into that range. Ill say that it wont be the same. I drove a suburban in high school and its truly an incredible vehicle. Im lamenting that they charge so much for them these days. its probably GM’s number one vehicle for profit margins (suburban, Tahoe, Escalade and Yukon; all those full size SUV’s. I hardly see them run deep discounts on them) That is why I’m stoked about the new expedition. it could start a price war
I learned to drive and took my driver’s license test with a 1985 ‘Burban, and yes AZ requires you to parallel park for the test and I got it on my first try.
We talked about the Traverse, but the wife said it looks to much like a minivan, and I do agree. She currently drives a 2009 Impala SS (with the 5.3L LS4) and we rented a 2016 XTS (with the 3.6L) and she said it had insuffeceint power and found it sluggish and asked why if it had the same horse power. Because the V6 has 275 lbs of torque VS our V8 that has 323 lbs of torque. Yes, my wife imediate notices the difference and said anything with a 3.6L is not going to work for her.
Thats how we got to the Tahoe, we most like will end up with a used Escalade because they seem to be about the same price but often have less miles on them and they not all beat up.
So of course she’s been window shopping and started showing me some killer deals on the Escalade ESV. I told her “umm… those are Suburbans you, you want a big old Suburban now?” Her reply was “well they look beautiful and they are cheaper then most of the Tahoes”.
A good old price war would be nice, it’ll be interesting how GM responds to the Expedition. Since GM is all about just following and not leading.
Your wife has just become a connoisseur of the “twist to weight” ratio….lol.
Lol, yes.
Word to the wise, if your wife has only ever owned vehicles with four cyclinders in them, don’t talk them in to selling it and give them your car with a V8.
When we met she had a 2008 Dodge Avenger (yuk!) w/ 128k, and gave her my Impala SS w/ 50k on it.
When I had it I was averaging 18 mpg, and I check it the other day and she’s getting 16mpg out of it, hmmm.
I also put Michelin Pilot Super Sports on it, because she said the Goodyears it had were not “grippy enough”.
Lol, What have I created???
Does the new Acadia hit your price point?
The issue is the 3.6L in the 2017 only has 271 lbs ft of torque and the wife has made it clear that she finds it to be insuffecient.
She’s also has caught on that (her conclusion she figured out herself) is that “CUVs are really just mini vans with different doors(her words)” (ps she abosultely loathes mini vans).
I personally am not the biggest fan of Generic.Made.Chevys. I know they are the same but I perfer the chevys styling and hate how GM restrict options for chevys to only have for GMC. I personally wish they killed GMC in the bankrupt but of course that brand showed to be healthy on paper because all the sell are truck and suvs.
It’s amazing meeting a woman that knows nothing about cars and feels indifferent about them, meets me and watch her open her eyes to the automotive world.
In hindsight, I wish had I traded my Cobalt SS in for a Trailblazer SS not an Impala SS, if I had we wouldn’t be in this sistuation. I’ve now looked at the Trailblazer SS but the all seem to be higher milage (100k) than our Impala and can’t see the justification to trade it out.
I’ll be real honest I have a Tahoe, and sure it has a good look. I car pool for my daughter’s soccer team with people that have mini-vans. I have to be honest the mini-van is a far, far better choice; it’s roomier, it ride so much better, is more maneuverable, etc . I rationalized the Tahoe because I like to ski, though use the 4×4 on my Tahoe for one or two ski trips a year, last year I drove up to Steamboat during a snowstorm, my daughters’ friend arrive there at the same time in their AWD Sienna. His vehicle cost $20k less, it’s cheaper to insure and honestly it’s more comfortable.
I am on board for a less expensive option for the V8. They really should revisit the roots if the 60s and 70s and see that it’s not about flashy wheels track cornering ability, straight line is where everyone can race.
I would like to see a base priced care with limited standard features steel wheels a V8 and manual transmission. Then let people order cars how they want them (far fetched I know cause people want what they want now). Heck even packages could still exist but make it so you could choose an option or two from a package without choosing the whole thing… I get it a track car like the SS 1LE is a bad ass ride and there really isn’t another vehicle in it’s price range that can do what it will do, but you get the money from younger people purchasing the cars and not the old men who only buy 1 every so often. If the car is winning on the street the non die hard brand folks will jump platforms and try to get the best to start with. But hell I’m a 29 y/o stuck in thinking the 60s and 70s are some of the best days we will never have back….
Here are som answers to some of your complaints.
#1. You will not have much back seat room in any coupe without more weight and more added size. All coupes in this segment have rendered the back seat useless even back to the GTO.
#2 they can add hid and other things to a base model. But what are you willing to give up? These little things all add up and cost money so to keep the prices down you either have to give up other things you like in the car or you have to pay more money.
#3 most performance cars are hard to see out of. Part of being a performance car has been styling and it almost always hinders seeing out. Sure you can make it like a 79 Malibu nearly all glass but what would that do to the performance look people expect. BMW gets away with it because the have built the same damn car 26 different ways over the years.
Here is the reality. The pony car died long ago. The original formula was to take a Mustang, Chevy II or valliant and transform it into performance car cheaply. That no longer happens.
Today they are pourpose built cars that are giving world class performance at half the cost of the Euro brands. The inheriant loss here is you are not going to get a cheap car with all that can be had. The engines and suspensions on these cars are not leftover crap from a cheap econo car anymore. It cost money and leaves compromises for the rest of the car. Sure they can all it all but how much will you pay?
Then add to this thesegment is dying. Coupes are a hard sell and low profit at lower volumes. Honda just killed their coupe in their new model and it will not be the last.
In a way I almost with they had brought the Vamsro back as a Monza or some other name. Right now the baggage of expectations is at odds with the market of today.
This is one damn hard car to build. No matter what you do someone will Bi#%ch and even with world class performance less are buying and more are complaining.
Today’s market I’d given a vehicle like the FNR-X would buy them st the same price st 2-3 times the rate because that is were the market is at.
We the enthusiast are a dying breed. Go to a cruise in and look at the collective age. Same at the track and rod shows. There are more walkers and canes than anything anymore.
The tuner movment is there but they are shut out by the old and their numbers are small.
I went to a cruise a couple weeks ago and at 50 I was the youngest one there. We used to own the drive in till Midnight and today the all go home my 8pm. Most can’t see to drive in the dark. Note that is not a joke but what I was told.
Frankly I do not have the answers here and I really don’t think anyone else does either.
I hate to say it but unless something changes we are in the last stages of cars like these unless they get more expensive to support the lower volumes sold.
I won’t be surprised if they do come out with a Monza type car within 5 years. I think GM is deliberately moving Camaro into the Corvette range so Corvette’s next generation can be $100k+. The next logical step is a FR-S level sport car below Camaro. Sporty, but more of a rice burner type of sporty. That’s what the kids like nowadays anyway. Camaros and Corvettes are for people with blue collar middle-age money.
The reality is the average price for a car is $35,000 today. That buys you a nice fwd sedan or a good V6 Camaro.
The dream of the cheap RWD perforomance car is just over. You are not going to get a SS for less than twenty five grand anymore.
Also the C eight will stlll be based around seventy to seventy five grand. Yes they will have very expensive versions but the base will still be under one-hundred grand.
Even the FR-S is not setting the world on fire volume wise.
Look for GM to do a car like the FNR-X but in gas form. A softy SUV like this would really hit a sweet spot in the market. AWD, and five doors with a futuristic Camaro look would really set the segment on fire.
I expect the Camaro to be the only 4 seat coupe Chevy offers for a good while. Just no market for more and a shrinking market for what they have.
This is not 1969 anymore and it needs to be looked at that way.
Having a 100k plus corvette would tank sales. corvettes are hot because of the niche they monopolize. Essentially what you just said is what this article is talking about, and they do have 100K corvettes, its called the ZR1
They also have a Z06 that can go 6 figures.
But yet we also have a Stingray that carry the volume starting at just over$50k.
We will also still have a mid engine base Vette in the $70s.
Multi models of a wide range of price is how many sports cars survive today. How many 911 models are there now?
What you are saying about the backseat is just not true my Mustang GT can and has seated a buddy whom is 6’2″, he has to lean back, and the front passenger needs to move the seat forward a bit however it’s not bad at all. I tried to sit in the back of a gen 6 Camaro and I cannot do it, I cannot hold my head straight and the seat in front of me has to be all the way forward and straight up – I am 5’10”.
A Mustang is less than 100 pounds heavier than a comparable Camaro, as far as I am concerned if that 100 pounds comes from making the rear seat usable, it’s well worth it. I don’t really get it; the Mustang the Camaro base cars have never been track focused vehicles. Why GM thought ignoring all else to make the Camaro a top track car would help them out, I don’t know. I am glad you love it, I like them however I have no interest in ever getting a two seater and in my opinion the generation six Camaro is a two seater.
In terms of styling, it doesn’t look ENOUGH like the 5th gen.
They softened the lines, added a goofy angle to the 1/4 window and made the belt line even higher.
1) lower the beltline by an inch or so
2) reshape the 1/4 window so that it follows the same angle as the shoulder line
3) raise the shoulder line up about an inch or so
4) the coving in the side needs to be deeper in the rear, not the front
5) add creases to where the wheel opening flares start
6) sharpen the mid-line crease
7) re accentuate the car’s waist
Do this and the car will be SOOOO much better looking.
Completely agree with 1,2 & 4. Number 6 could just be lowered to match the dropped belt line. Thinking if they raised the shoulder line as mentioned in #3 they would also raise the rear. Which would again hurt visibility.
One other tweak is the vertical line of SS front bumper on the outer edges looks Cadillac-ish. I like the LS/LT bumper better in that regard & love the ZL1 tweaks as well.
Of course none of this matters as the 2019 update is a done deal set for production a year from now.
In your mind only. No thanks if you don’t like it close your eyes.
The Camaro needs to be lighter more accommodating easy entry,exit,both front and rear better engine choice, killer styling better use of space and better entry pricing and better pricing across the board. The alpha chassis is terrible for use of space. it has the smallest interior and trunk for its given size compared to others in the same size range.
I have a 5th gen 1LE as a toy and a ’17 BRZ as a DD. Two different animals. The next Camaro should be clean sheet, don’t try retro, I would shoot somewhere between a BMW M2 to a new LEXUS. But with the same build quality interior as the new impala LTZ. Psuedo leather but looks like quality. Like I tell my friends the 1LE is like two lions fighting over a gazelle. The BRZ is like two squirrels fighting over a nut. The 1LE can create pucker factor, the BRZ just makes you grin bigger.
Chevrolet’s GEN 6 Camaro since it’s introduction has been criticized for looking bulky and not as aerodynamic than Ford’s Mustang despite the fact that the Camaro is actually lighter than the Mustang as the simple fact is that we as people buy things that look appealing; thus, Chevy needs to take the car into the wind tunnel for a bit of tweaking.
Just because of the name it hurts itself. If was another name. A turbo 4 and v6 is all it would need. I got the camaro rs convertible turbo 4 for about the price of a base ss. And of they need more power a v6 twin turbo would work.
How about raising the roof so I can see out of it. I bought a new 1971 and a 1977 Camaro when starting my working career–the visibility was far superior with those models. New generation car has the performance but not the daily livability factor.
Enough of the retro design .Design a 2+2 Corvette Stingray inspired Camaro.It wouldn’t need 1000 horsepower when it’s lighter and more aerodynamic tha the other 2 ugly pony cars.
It’s an old design based on an old design (derp). Nostalgia has its place but not forever (is 10 years forever?) in a day. Keep the mechanicals and track options list of goodies, but make it lighter with a fresh design.
It will still be a pony car so it needs a V8 even if its just an option. What about the new 5.5L V8 with push rod instead of DOHC? No V8 = no pony car.
The Gen6 is almost a complete new design, so I don’t get the comment here. The Alpha chassis is outstanding, rigid, and very capable. The corvette LT1 engine is not a DOHC, but is an outstanding small block which is what Chevy really does best. Flat torque curve starting down low and through the power band gives instant acceleration, good horsepower, even decent efficiency. I wouldn’t change the chassis or LT1 that is for sure.
I agree Chevy does small blocks better then anyone
The back seats are a joke, you have to lean your head to sit back there. I’d love to see a 5.3 in a 1ls. Don’t need a digital dash, brembos or a million radiators for track running, this is not meant for road courses. Give it 380ish horsepower and get rid of either the v6 or turbo 4. The v6 is quick but has no low end torque.
Fixing the camaro is as easy as having GM put the highest rated hp engine in both the ZR1 and the ZL1!
Then the camaro can run with the other two pony cars without have to worry about being faster the then ZR1
If you don’t like the back seat then go buy a different car! Stop trying to make the camaro into a family car!