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2018 Cadillac XTS Refresh Spied Looking Sharp

Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen saved the XTS from the chopping block some time ago and promised a major refresh of the front-wheel drive sedan will come later this year. Thanks to spy shots Konrad Ysak, we’ve gotten a pretty decent look at the front clip.

We believe this is indeed the 2018 Cadillac XTS judging by the overall side profile and its sharp stylistic crease running from the front fender out to the rear. It also sports identical door mirrors and seems to cover a Cadillac badge on its fender in the same fashion as previous spy photos.

As stated, this is the closest look of the 2018 XTS’ front end we’ve seen. Either the camouflage is doing an excellent job at skewing our eyesight or the XTS is about to look a lot like a Cadillac CT6 up front, judging by the daytime LED lights sweeping vertically down into the lowest area of the front bumper.

If introduced later this year, it will be the only vehicle to surface in 2017 for the Cadillac brand. The first all-new Cadillac, the XT4 crossover, is expected to arrive in early 2018. The XT4 will kick off a slew of new product for Cadillac, as it aims to introduce a new vehicle every six months for two years.

Hat tip: Konrad Ysak, GM Authority Facebook.

Former GM Authority staff writer.

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Comments

  1. Will it continue to be called the XTS? I know they said they would only change names with a new model which this isn’t but the confusion between this and the XTS XT5 is getting a bit confusing.

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    1. I agree, it should have a new name. By the new naming conventions, it would be a CT7? But it might be cheaper than a CT6, so CT5? A real name, like Fleetwood? Probably not that last one.

      Reply
      1. The XTS should be renamed with a “real” name, not CTx or XTx. The Escalade and the XTS are the last true Cadillacs, and since the Escalade has a “real” name, I think the XTS should have one as well.

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        1. Henry, that would be great. Real names for the Cadillacs with classic (American luxury) Cadillac values, letters and numbers for Cadillacs with German values. This would be informative to the public and might actually help drive sales of both types of Cadillacs.

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        2. Real name for a real Cadillac. I like it!

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        3. How is the XTS a real Cadillac and CT6 isn’t?? If you ask me they should make cadillacs in front wheel drive or on chevy platforms, that’s what’s dragging cadillac down.

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          1. “Carguy”, the CT6 is a “real Cadillac” in some ways, but it is too hard-riding (even in its softest adjustment) to be a classic Cadillac. Also the base model engine is too rough to be a real Cadillac.

            As to FWD dragging Cadillac down, the 1967 Eldorado was a breakthrough car that established Cadillac as the luxury leader for decades. Cadillac is still living off the 1967 Eldorado design cues, to some extent. And the 1967 Eldorado was FWD, which was seen as an advantage (which it is, better traction in snow, more legroom for driver and passengers).

            RWD is an old system that has currently made a faddish revival, thanks to being favored by professional auto writers and “fast n furious” type fans who want to “drift” their cars and smoke their tires. For adults who don’t use their cars as recreational toys, FWD is better than RWD.

            What hurt Cadillac has been trying to imitate the Germans, leading to the Cimarron, the V8-6-4 engine, and the Catera. Also what hurt Cadillac in the recent past was reliability issues, in which they were surpassed by the Japanese brands (Lexus in particular). The German cars also have reliability issues, and once the childish “sport” fad is over, adults will return to favoring true luxury cars. Unfortunately Cadillac will be out of that business, if some of you have your desires fulfilled.

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            1. I disagree 100% cars like the DTS were making cadillac a laughing stock long after the cimmeron was gone.

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              1. Ian, I’d be the ranch that you have never driven a DTS. If you had, you wouldn’t at all use the phrase “laughing stock”. It’s not a tiny cramped hard-riding car like your beloved ATS (that you wouldn’t buy if it were called a Seville), that is true. You sound like the type of person that cares more about what other people think than about what you want, the type who lets the professional auto press tell you what you should like, instead of finding out for yourself.

                But I bet if you drove a DTS on the highways and around town for a week, you would HATE going back to your precious ATS. Unless of course it’s all about image, and not what you like personally. And as you get older and more mature, you’ll tire of having a car that is a toy, and you’ll find that there are other things in life that are even more enjoyable than weaving in and out of traffic like a maniac. You’ll wish you could have a smooth riding car like the DTS that you thought you’d hate, but never tried out yourself.

                The ATS does look better than the DTS, which was based on the once-cool STS style, but by the end of the DTS run was dated. However, the ride and roominess of the DTS were unbeatable by any Cadillac of that time, or today. That’s no joke, that’s reality. By the way, the DTS sold over 50k/year more than once. The ATS has never sold more than 40k in one year (US sales for both). Cadillac was laughing all the way to the bank, until they started to listen to idiots who said they have to drop everything that BMW wouldn’t have done themselves.

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                1. I agree. Many considered the DTS to be the de facto Cadillac flagship during it’s tenure, and I’d say it was. It must have been awesome to ride home in a DTS back when it was still around. (although anyone can purchase a used one, but its not the same as if it was your original car – imo) I wish I had the means to purchase and experience a band new DTS back then in the late 2000’s so I could pull up next to Honda Civics and dust them in comfort and class. I would of been on top of the world. DTS is pure class.

                  One of my favorite Cadillac commercials,

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                  1. Every time I drive my current almost Cadillac I long for all my previous Caddys and think of what I will buy next. Since buying this CTS I have never really been out of the market. The car is uncomfortable. Not satisfied at all.

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                2. I have driven a dts, I admit that they are very comfortable and spacious but hated it because it feel like it will roll over when you turn. I like the handling of the ats and the ride is fine for me. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I just think cars like the ats and cts (and ct6) are what will lure younger buyer and steel buyers from the other makes.

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                3. I will also admit that I wish the ats had a bigger back seat but I guess that what the cts is for.

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                  1. Ian,

                    I had an ATS service loaner for two days. It was a kick to drive! The second day I used cruise control to avoid tickets and losing my left blinker status.

                    ATS is not for me as a daily driver but I understand the appeal.

                    I was looking (online) at a beautiful DTS last winter as my CTS is dismal in winter driving conditions. The car spent it’s entire life in Ohio so I knew it had road salt issues. That was the reason I didn’t pick up the DTS.

                    I would love to be able to buy a new old Caddy. My pick would be a ’93 DeVille base model.

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      2. I agree but I don’t think Cadillac wants this to have a real name. And for the CT part I think there in a dilemma because when they named the ct6 they probably thought the XTS was dead.

        But with decent sales they decided to keep it alive and I’m guessing they don’t have a CT name for it. It has to be lower then 6 but we don’t know if there keeping the unevens for coupes or what.

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        1. That’s why alphanumeric “names” are bad. When there is already a 2,3,4,5,6,7-Series at BMW, for instance, and a new model is planned, there is nothing to call it. Thus, you get 6 Series Grand Coupe even though everything about that moniker goes against convention; neither the 6 Series name nor the term “Coupe” should be applied to a four door.

          In Cadillac’s case, CT5 is the most likely name for XTS but then CTS would need to be CT4, ATS would need to be christened CT3, the new subcompact model would be called CT2 and suddenly Cadillac is where BMW is with no way to add something like an evocative mid-sized coupe based on the alpha architecture.

          Honestly, XTS just needs to go away. It was a bridge product, it served its purpose and Cadillac needs to have the courage to move away from it and its cheap FWD platform. Keeping the car only cheapens the brand and muddles the brand image.

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          1. “Honestly, XTS just needs to go away. It was a bridge product, it served its purpose and Cadillac needs to have the courage to move away from it and its cheap FWD platform. Keeping the car only cheapens the brand and muddles the brand image.”

            You’re so out of touch with that statement, dude. The XTS is very much a fan favorite; more popular than CT6 and nonsense like the CTS/ATS. I’d argue if anything is “going away” it needs to be the ATS and CTS – nobody wants a small Cadillac. Keep the CT6 around, notch a new XTS above the CT6 as a smooth riding flashy boulevard cruiser. Throw in a V8 in it and they can keep the name and call it the XTS Brougham.

            Anyhow, based on this most recent spy shot, I’m kind of disappointed as the upgrade looks to basically be an XT5 like front end (grill and vertical split LEDs – fog lamps) and probably similar interior. I was hoping for Escala touches; let the XTS, the dark horse contender usher in the new design language, in my opinion.

            I still await to see how it looks though. If anything, the new brighter flashy LED’s are nice.

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            1. If Cadillac wants to be a marquee brand which I’m not saying is the right way but is the way johan is steering it then the XTS should be phased out.

              You can’t have a car if that size base on FWD architecture I’ve recently had a XTS rental it was by no means a bad car very pleasant to drive and I loved the size but it felt more like an upgraded Impala then anything else.

              With the way the industry for all trims is going sedans will be numbered and suvs will dominate the market.

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              1. Here we go again. I agree with Yoshiaki and Henry on the XTS, it sells. I’m aware of the professional auto writer bias for RWD and “performance” cars. But it’s silly for anyone to think the Cadillac having a sedan on a FWD platform is hurting the brand.

                Does anyone really think that people are walking to the Cadillac dealership with fists full of cash to buy an ATS, CTS, or CT6, and then say “Hey wait a minute, what’s this XTS with FWD? The deal’s off!”.

                As far as I know, EVERY mainstream Audi sports sedan (A3 through A8) is FWD. I believe that only the only Audi with RWD is the true sports car R8 (that starts at $162,000). And Volvo’s top of the line S90 sedan/V90 wagon are also FWD. Of course the new Lincoln Continental is FWD, but I suppose they’ll be knocked for not being a European brand.

                As has been noted on past threads, there are functional advantages to FWD, as well as a cost advantage. FWD yields more legroom, FWD is much better in snow and other slippery conditions. RWD has an advantage if you treat your car like a recreational toy and like to “drift” your car at high speeds. Great. But is a Cadillac a recreational toy or a luxury vehicle?

                It’s true that the professional auto writers, who come down firmly on the cars-as-toys side of things will never embrace FWD. But 85% of drivers will never notice a difference between FWD and RWD on dry pavement. They WILL notice a difference on slippery pavement of course, when RWD loses traction, spins out, fails to climb hills, etc. So unless you are in the 15% who can tell the difference AND is willing to sacrifice traction and legroom for alleged RWD “fun”, the only reason to want a RWD is to impress the auto writer press. Do you buy the car that you like, what works best for you, or do you buy what other people tell you to buy?

                Yes there’s a mindset that “if only Cadillac could kill off FWD, sales of RWD will go through the roof”. It’s also quite silly. If I want to buy a Stingray or Camaro, I’m not going to hold back because Chevrolet also makes the Spark and Sonic. How many people even know that Audis are FWD? Yes the dedicated gearheads know it, but it’s a fair bet that those neighbors some of you are trying to impress have no idea. They just see “Audi” and bow down to worship you with praise such as “You da man”, and “I am not worthy”. Which apparently is what such buyers are aiming for.

                Personally I favor FWD. Yet I’m not calling for Cadillac to kill off all RWD as some sort of brand statement. Why do RWD proponents want to kill off FWD so badly? Just because YOU wouldn’t buy something, doesn’t mean there’s no market for it. And just because something is FWD, doesn’t mean they did that to be cheap. There are good reasons to choose FWD over RWD, even if you wouldn’t do it personally.

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              2. An upgraded Impala? You must be trolling. Its same analogy that can be made for the Escalade, but it doesn’t get near the same heat as the XTS. Also, come on, it’s nothing like an Impala besides the basic platform. Let alone fit and finish, you can’t get a smoother riding new car besides the XTS these days, unless you’re spending S-Class money. If you can, let me know which it is; the Conti doesn’t feel as smooth IMO.

                Also don’t get me started on rentals. >.> I don’t think renters appreciate what they’re driving with the XTS. I’ll just copy pasta my thoughts on the current rental situation that I commented on in the XTS article yesterday since you brought that up….

                Personally, I really think GM offering the XTS up as the standard “luxury” option for Rental companies such as Enterprise is a terrible decision. When someone is paying $50-70k or ~$900-1000 per month on payments for an automobile, that car better make them feel special every time they get behind the steering wheel, period. If any average Joe can go rent an XTS or often times get comped and upgraded to one, it diminishes the brand and car, tremendously, in my opinion. No one wants their luxury car to be a rental. And without even discussing residuals being terrible become of oversupply in the used market (almost always previous owners such as Avis/Enterprise). This is a major gripe of mine, and I do believe it has taken a bite out of what could have been a well received luxury sedan in the market. In many ways the XTS was the dark horse contender, that has been hampered from day one.

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                1. Luxary Cars being offered as rentals is no big deal! Hell you can rent a corvette or camaro, it’s a great way to help decide do I want to live with this car for the next few years? You can’t tell very much in a 5 min test drive! But having the car for a day or two will tell you plenty about a car!

                  Rental cars make life better for the car industry, keeps manufacturer plants humming along, let’s people use those cars on trips, and lowers resale so that people looking for a good used car can find expensive cars at a lower price!

                  That 80k car that you can’t afford will cost 40k after 4 or 5 years!

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                  1. Cadillac already lets potential purchasers take home any car for a day. The XTS has no business being a rental. Let Genesis or something fill that position. (pro-tip, they won’t, Hyundai learns fast).

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                    1. So your fragile ego gets hurt because you see some dude driving the same car you have around town because it’s a rental!

                      That says all I need to know about the person you are, and I hope GM doesn’t build cars and trucks with you in mind!

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                    2. The XTS is the cornerstone of Cadillacs’ rental and livery program. It will never rise above this to the elevated ranks of the CT6.

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                    3. @ Grawdaddy

                      You being in Canada I doubt you’re seeing what I’m seeing and your opinion is invalid. The CT6 is very much in the car service business in Southern California and I’d bet money its the same in the NYC area. I’m seeing quite a few, actually. I started noticing this growing trend and pointed it out in the previous month’s sales for the CT6 article, I’d bet car service/livery is a large part of that.

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                  2. If it’s a Cadillac that 80k car will be 40k or less in 2 years.

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                2. I never knew that Audi sedans were FWD until Drew mentioned it, then I noticed the dash-to-axle ratio when I saw one on the road recently. I agree, why is Audi allowed to get away with FWD but Cadillac isn’t? Didn’t Johan “revive” Audi, why did he decide to use FWD there, but not Caddy? On the other hand, I always knew the Continental was FWD, and to be honest, it looks much better than the XTS.
                  I think the ELR was a great looking car (on the outside), so did almost everyone who reviewed it, maybe Cadillac should bring back some of the ELR design elements for the new XTS.

                  As I mentioned in another thread, it might be good for sales if the XTS was offered in a sport/hatchback variation, since it has such a large trunk, and such a small opening. Also, I think the XTS defiantly needs an analogue clock in the dash, and no, its clearly not outdated as MB and Chrysler still use it.

                  https://youtu.be/PQmMhCe4YR0 Here is a YouTube documentary about the history of Cadillac, I highly recommend watching it, even though its long, its very good. Towards the end, they mention what started Caddy’s downfall and how they appeal to customers.

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                  1. Gosh I miss the 90s. You rarely hear that type of narration voice anymore. It was the 90s version of Morgan Freeman’s voice. And that background music, perfect. Also, that generations El Dorado, was one hot car, I love it. As to your analogue clock suggestion, I think it’s a good idea. Those add a nice contract with the mostly digital controls these days, I believe Genesis is throwing them into their dashes as well.

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              3. Eric, if that’s the case let’s keep XTS and let de Nysschen go.

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            2. You’re clearly the one who’s out of touch…..the only reason XTS sells is because they’re all rentals/ fleet. Anyone who buy one retail will probably be in the nursing home before they need another car. Ats and cts are the future, cars like the XTS (and dts) are what ruined the Cadillac name. If you want to rebuild the brand and bring it to it previous glory you need to ax the xts and build more cars like ats cts and ct6

              Reply
              1. Trends are cyclical, man. And most times, people won’t catch the trend until it’s already mainstream. I’d argue the age of the performance luxury sedans (BMW) are growing stale and the smooth riding comfortable boulevard cruises are making a comeback. Most of the people interested in large luxury sedans, or luxury sedans in general, don’t give a darn if a car is rear wheel vs front wheel, that’s a fallacy car blogs and journalist love to propagate. I’ve seen the XTS beat the CT6 in world world sales personally on all occasions where they were cross-shopped – by the people Cadillac actually wants as customers, – youngish to mid career professionals. This ATS/CTS garbage is not the future. Its too little too late and the sales data backs up my opinion. The XTS continues to dominate at Cadillac, btfo of the ATS/CTS/and CT6, period. It, along with the Escalade and XT5 pay the bills; most customers go into the dealership and come out with one of those three. And those old people you’re talking about, they’re purchasing Mercedes and Lexus these days, brands that were hot for their generation as adults (80s,90s). Basically, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

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                1. I agree….nobody wants hard riding cars…I think future Audi A8, Lexas LS, BMW 7, and MB-S Class well be powerful and soft riding and more comfortable.

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                  1. Nobody wants hard riding cars? That’s why cars have multiple suspension modes. A person can have a cts v drive it hard and cruise around like you want to.

                    Look if you can’t drive a high hp car that’s fine just don’t take away the option for the rest of us! We should have to pay the price because a person like you can’t drive!

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                    1. Brian – multiple suspension mode cars only make small adjustments. As JD power noted recently, there is no mode on the new CT6 that is smooth/comfortable enough for the likely market for that car. And they found the “sport” mode downright jittery, even for themselves (who were admittedly “enthusiasts” who liked sport-type cars).

                      This topic did not start out being about “taking away” the cars you like, and even if someone did stop making hard-riding “sporty” Cadillacs, there are always the German cars for you to “enjoy”. What it’s about though is whether the XTS or similar (such as the DTS, which was even better and more Cadillac-like) should be made. Seems to me that your crowd wants to see them end production, just because you personally wouldn’t buy anything but “sporty” cars.

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                2. You can lay down your chips on the luxury fwd car and I’ll push all my chips into the center of the table for luxury rwd cars.

                  If you are a old lady then I will agree fwd/rwd doesn’t matter to them. But to people who really like and enjoy their cars rwd drive is where the direction needs to go. If somebody wants to make the case for awd then that’s fine.

                  Cadillac making fwd cars in the 80’s and 90’s started the down fall of Cadillac.

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                  1. ?

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                  2. Old lady here 😉 I like FWD. My money is just as good as yours. A sale is a sale and Cadillac really really needs sales desperately.

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                3. A) the ats out sells all the other sedans including XTS
                  B) if you took out fleet and rental numbers cts would put sell XTS too (not sure about the ct6)
                  C) obviously the suvs out sell them all
                  D) I see very few people under the age of 50 ever driving and XTS

                  And besides all that, the European sedans sell in WAY higher numbers then any of the cadillacs and if they want a chance to steal sales they have to offer performance technology and luxury not just a smith ride and an underpowered n/a engine

                  Reply
                  1. “Carguy”,

                    A) The ATS does not outsell other sedans as you claim.

                    Here are the US sales figures for ATS for 2017 thus far:
                    January: 974
                    February: 1,005
                    March: 1,367

                    Total 2017: 3,346

                    XTS USA sales 2017 thus far:
                    January: 1,849
                    February: 1,345
                    March: 1,484

                    Total 2017: 4,678

                    B) I don’t think GM breaks out fleet sales for individual models. But even if XTS benefits from more fleet sales than other Cadillac models, those are still sales.

                    C) Yes Cadillac SUVs outsell their sedans, so by the logic of some here, Cadillac should stop selling sedans entirely. I don’t agree with that logic.

                    D) You don’t see a lot of people under 50, or at least under 45, driving ANY Cadillac. So what? Very few people under 45 can afford a new Cadillac of any type, and yes the ATS is more affordable than the XTS, which means it cheapens the brand. You can get a base ATS with cheap vinyl seats, cheap halogen headlights, a 33.5″ legroom rear seat, and a backbreaking hard ride. Is that a real Cadillac? Not in my book. But if all you care about is getting the Cadillac badge, then the base ATS is your most affordable Caddy for younger people.

                    BTW, a lot of wealthy people over 50 will buy 7-8 more new Cadillacs in their lifetimes. They don’t want to worry about maintenance issues, and they often want the newest models, so they’ll sell them after a few years and take the depreciation hit. Why would you choose to ignore a market like that, which Cadillac has dominated for so long?

                    Classic Cadillacs were never underpowered, just some of the new ones (including the XTS). A smooth ride does not mean underpowered. EVERY DTS (even the base model) came with a V8 Northstar. As well as real leather seats, xenon headlights, etc. Cadillac values have meant (until recent years), a roomy interior, a smooth ride (aka “Cadillac ride”), strong power (the first mass-production V8 and V16 in the US were on Cadillacs), real leather and no cheap de-contented models, the latest in consumer utility, and brash attractive styling. Today you can buy Cadillacs that are cramped, hard-riding, underpowered, vinyl seats, etc. – and people wonder why the brand has lost some of its allure.

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                    1. There are plenty of young people driving BMW and Audi…. i personally would never buy anything even close to an XTS because want something that handles… people like you are holding Cadillac back from fixing the brand and repairing the image. smaller sportier cars are what will revive cadillac not grandpa cruisers.

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                    2. “Carguy”, best way for Cadillac to revive the image is to improve reliability, something that they focused on in their earliest decades, but which was lost when they started to chase German-like “sport performance” instead of maintaining their traditional values.

                      Yes there will always be some cars for the NASCAR-wannabe “fast n furious” crowd, that’s why GM has made Camaros, Trans Ams, Firebirds, etc. As far as Cadillac being a “grandpa car”, that image was mainly due to the fact that “grandpa” was the one who had the money to afford them. Also because “grandpa” wasn’t going to put up with cramped hard-riding cars the way younger people would.

                      And I can understand that. I used to ride in cramped little cars myself, and I used to stay in crummy hotel rooms with multiple people in the room, often having to sleep on the floor or in a cot. You put up with a lot of that when you are young, true. As you get older, you can afford more car, you don’t need to fit into tight parking spaces, etc. But don’t confuse wealth with age.

                      Although young people can rarely afford true luxury, it doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate true luxury even as a young person. The idea that roomy and comfortable is only for old people is silly. I’ve enjoyed the roominess and smoothness of the classic Cadillac ride since I was a teenager. I just couldn’t afford one myself then. I also would have enjoyed staying at roomy luxury hotels when I was young, I just couldn’t afford them then. I can now.

                      Cadillac would be silly to drop everything that doesn’t fit with the self-image of a rich millennial. There will always be a market for comfortable, roomy, well-powered cars. There will also always be some old dude driving a Corvette, thinking it makes him young or cool. It doesn’t. You are what you are, you shouldn’t let marketers tell you what car is right for your particular age/status. Try them out, decide for yourself. Or be a sheep and let others tell you what to drive.

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                    3. Again, plenty of young people drive Audi and BMW which generally cost more so it’s not wealth…. you shouldn’t have to go European to guy a sporty luxury car, a Camero won’t cut it, you need performance and luxury. If you didn’t notice millenials are the future and if you don’t win them over now they will be BMW buys for life. Maybe as people get older they want more space and comfort but they should have to sacrifice performance to get it

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                    4. “Maybe as people get older they want more space and comfort but they should[n’t] have to sacrifice performance to get it”

                      Carguy, fair enough, some people may think that way. Though I imagine that as they get older, their interest in “performance” will wane. And I don’t see space and comfort in cars being appreciated exclusively by older people, any more than 1st class airline seats are only appreciated by older, vs. cramped economy seats. I think it’s partly money, partly the “style” they’ve been told to get, partly that they haven’t actually experienced the better ride.

                      I don’t know that millennials will be “lost to BMW for life” if they don’t buy a Cadillac now. Personally I’ve always bought the car I wanted, regardless of brand; I have preferred the American brands but I haven’t been a customer for life of any brand or manufacturer.

                      But in the event that GM wants to offer “entry level rich” cars under the Cadillac name, they should not be de-contented just to get those early customers. To my thinking anyone who has a base ATS does not have a real Cadillac, any more than someone with a Cimarron didn’t have a real Cadillac. I can just imagine someone getting an “entry level” Cadillac early on and then deciding they didn’t like the brand later in life, when they would be a likely customer for a true Cadillac.

                      Yes there are different types of cars for different types of drivers, regardless of age. Just as you don’t want to have to sacrifice performance to get room and comfort, others like myself don’t want to sacrifice room and comfort – not to mention ability to drive in snow – for “performance” that we don’t care about. That’s the problem Cadillac faces now, with a car like the CT6 that is a hybrid between sport and luxury, satisfying neither. If Cadillac throws away its historic American luxury, it may find that it both failed to gain the “performance” customers, and lost the “room and comfort” ones.

                      So that’s Cadillac’s dilemma. And it looks like they’ve chosen to go with “sport”, given their choice of people from the German brands in the top jobs. I believe that’s a massive mistake, but we’ll see. At least Johan’s decision to extend the XTS shows that perhaps he’s not as willing to throw away the brand as had been feared. I don’t recall a car brand ever transitioning successfully from one type of driving experience to another, and I doubt it will work here, nor do I think it’s the best plan to make profit for GM. GM has been run by “performance” people like Bob Lutz to Cadillac’s detriment, but time will tell.

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                    5. It would have been best for GM to create a new “performance luxury” brand if they wanted to go head to head with BMW, rather than sacrificing Cadillac for that duty. Most obvious would be to turn “Corvette” into a new brand. By trying to change the nature of Cadillac and throwing away their former niche, they risk losing what they had, and yet never gaining what they wanted to gain.

                      Rich millennials could drive a “Corvette” ATS or whater when young and a Cadillac when older. Cadillac should NEVER make a car that is hard riding, cramped, or de-contented (i.e. vinyl seats). It’s just not a Cadillac, hurts the brand. They should have learned that lesson with “the Cadillac that zigs”, i.e. the Catera, but they never learned.

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                  2. They have Buick for people who want comfortable front wheel drive cars. All the Cadillac can come in awd so the weather argument is false. Cadillac should be exclusively Cadillac only platforms with rwd/awd

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                    1. Carguy, Buick is not luxury enough for those who want roomy comfortable cars. Just as people here have said that Camaro is not luxury enough for the “performance” seekers. Cadillac established itself as a true luxury, roomy, comfortable riding car. Why should it stop being that, just because you personally want “performance luxury”, and you can get it with BMW and other German brands?

                      I’ve driven the “flagship” Buick Lacrosse (pre 2017 version) and it was nowhere near the Cadillac DTS in terms of smooth ride quality or acceleration. Nor did it feel as roomy. The trunk had a tiny opening, really a joke in terms of utility. Poor attention to detail, you could even hear the gasoline slosh around every time you stopped. Just no comparison to Cadillac on any level, other than the HK stereo sounded about as good as the Bose. Buick is nowhere near Cadillac, it’s more of a slightly upgraded Chevy.

                      As to the idea that you can take a RWD platform car and add AWD to make it just as good as FWD, you don’t know what you are talking about. You will still lose the extra legroom (I guess that doesn’t matter to you, but for those of us at 6’3 and taller, it does matter) that you would have had with FWD. Also AWD costs a lot more than FWD and it makes the car heavier (and generally stiffer), thus requiring an engine upgrade (more $$$ out the window), simply to get similar power that you’d have had from the FWD. On top of that you’ll get worse gas milage. And further, you’ll have higher maintenance costs with AWD vs FWD, including tire replacement.

                      So I can hear it now, if it’s a luxury car, then price should not be a factor. It shouldn’t matter that the person being pushed to AWD when they just wanted FWD is going to have to pay more for the AWD feature, more for the upgraded engine, more for gasoline, and more for the maintenance. But do you make a habit of paying many thousands of dollars for something that you don’t need, and which is actually worse (you still lose the legroom with AWD or RWD vs. FWD)? Bad enough that people who want a nice-driving luxury car would have to pay for “fast n furious” style handling that they don’t need, or being stuck with a stiffer ride that they don’t want, just so someone can treat the car like a recreational toy.

                      The reality is that 85% of car buyers do not care about “extra handling” and do not think “feel the road” steering is “fun”. The 85% do not think RWD is superior to FWD even on dry pavement. The 85% do not treat their cars as toys, fantasizing themselves as NASCAR drivers. BUT the 15% who do treat cars as toys and who do worship “fast n furious” dominate the professional auto writers and are over represented on websites like this. Which might give you a false sense of what is actually desired in the marketplace.

                      Only in the past 6 years have German-style performance-luxury cars led sedan sales, and frankly that’s at a time when sedan sales overall are very low, as SUVs dominate. SUVs are not “performance” cars by any means. A typical SUV can’t hold a turn anywhere near as well as the derided-by-performance-guys DTS. I’ve never heard of anyone flipping a DTS on a turn. Point being, “performance” sedans aren’t as in high demand as some people think.

                      And to the extent that “performance sedans” are in demand, it’s a style and fad. It’s a way for some bozo to point to his neighbors and say “look at the HP, look at the handling, it makes me really cool”. Yet they will NEVER use those features themselves. They are for show, much like a decorative rear spoiler.

                      Eventually people will get over the fad of “performance luxury”, but where will Cadillac be positioned at that point? If they give up their leadership of classic American luxury, then they will lose many future sales where they could have dominated once again. And if they give up on their semi-classic-luxury sedan XTS, they’ll lose profitable sales now. For what? Just so some “enthusiasts” can claim that Cadillac sells nothing but “performance” cars, as long as you don’t count the SUVs. Big deal. Again, does anyone decline to buy a Corvette Stingray just because the same brand sells the Chevrolet Sonic? If cars like the ATS are so great, they should be able to stand on their own. It’s crazy to say someone won’t buy an ATS as long as the same brand sells the XTS. Johan at least showed some sense when he decided to continue the XTS, that’s a lot more than I can say for people like “Carguy”.

                      Again I say that if someone has a base ATS, they don’t have a real Cadillac. Vinyl seats, harder-riding than even BMW, halogen headlights, cramped interior. The ATS is a good toy for boys I guess, small proportioned boys at that. I feel bad for anyone riding in a base ATS, they may think that’s a real Cadillac; it isn’t.

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                    2. Fine I’ll buy a BMW and you can let Cadillac die with the geriatrics…. let them keep making upgrades impalas on fwd economy car platforms because you value your back seat more then mechanical quality…. most people would rather have a Cadillac platform them a upgraded chevy platform any day. And when you live in the northeast and have to deal with snow you want awd….. let me guess you also want your pos North Star and a 4 speed transmission with crap acceleration cause you don’t want a “four banger” but you can’t have awd cause it will waste gas…. go back to 1974

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                    3. Carguy, acceleration with the V8 Northstar and 4-speed hydramatic was tremendous. You obviously haven’t driven this combination, and are making an assumption that more gears = great acceleration. Not true in this case.

                      No one is suggesting that Cadillac is supposed to stick with old technology, just with traditional values – at least for SOME of their sedans. If you want to make NASCAR-wannabe rides for the kids, ok but I still say it hurts the brand to sell a car that lacks real Cadillac values. However, it’s a false argument to say that people who want “Cadillac to be Cadillac” want to freeze technology and design, or go back to 20th century cars. Not all. They simply want modern technology and modern styled versions of real Cadillacs, not cramped hard-riding German-wannabe toys for boys.

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                    4. Maybe tremendous if you never go over 30mph. Maybe you’ll get your wish and they go back to making rolling couches for old men that feel like they’re gonna roll over every time you turn.

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                  3. There is a reason European cars outsell Cadillac.

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                4. I totally agree with Yoshiaki here. How can “carguy” see the future? If he can, he should tell us what stocks to buy, or who will win the Super Bowl. The hard-riding “sports luxury” cars are a fad that is likely to end soon. It would be silly for Cadillac to drop everything else to cater to this one type of car, forever. Especially when Cadillac is known for a much different type of car.

                  “Sports luxury” cars are currently fashionable, but the “sports” part does not matter to most buyers, in fact it’s a negative in terms of functionality for most drivers. Eventually people will see “sports luxury” cars for what they are, just an attempt by some lame guy to “look cool”, when in fact he has no use for the “sports” part at all. The grown-ups already know this.

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                  1. you can’t expect a luxury flagship to be a NASCAR wanabee sports car with the standing on tippy toes exterior design like the ATS.

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                  2. the hard riding and performance ….is is getting stale and it would be fazed out in the next 5-8 years for the favor of smooth riding and comfort roomy cars that are powerfull……Audi, BMW, MB and Caddy should stop the performance nonsense in favor of being real luxury brands.

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                  3. Eric, if that’s the case let’s keep XTS and let de Nysschen go.

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                  4. Drew, maybe Carguy has age issues. My midlife crisis was an Alfa Romeo so I really can’t relate to many of his posts.

                    Money is money. A sale is a sale. Makes no difference if the buyer is 100 years old or 20.

                    Through all the years no matter what cars were in the garage I always had a Cadillac for my daily. I think this is the last one for me. I want something comfortable that can handle winter driving conditions.

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                    1. Susan, yes it could be an age-issue thing for “Carguy”. Hard to say since we don’t know how old he is. I’ve never cared what “image” my car projected to others, as long as it was what I wanted and in good condition.

                      And to me, a comfortable, roomy, strongly powered car is not a “grandpa car” any more than 1st class seats on an airline are “grandpa seats”. Sure maybe only “grandpa” can afford a big comfortable, well-powered car or big comfortable (for an airline) seats, but I have yet to see the person who would turn down 1st class airline seats just because they weren’t “cool” like the cramped seats.

                      But I get the “midlife” car thing. When my own dad was around 55-60, he bought a red Camaro, then when that one had some years on it, he bought another red Camaro (newer model). He said something like “When I’m in that car, it takes 10 years off me”. I don’t know if he meant he felt that way personally, or whether he thought other people saw him that way. But it’s what he wanted, so that’s fine. I drove both Camaros a few times, didn’t really like them. They just didn’t have what I value in a car. Then again I didn’t “push” them to their limits like a NASCAR guy, but I doubt most people did.

                      Now is my Cadillac DTS like a rolling couch, as they used to describe the old American “land yachts”? Yeah sort of, in a good way. I’d much rather be on a smooth comfortable couch, than be bounced around on some hard chair, with my fingers tensely wrapped around the steering wheel. But I don’t think the DTS is “wavy” like a boat, it’s more like riding on a cushion of air, compared to most other cars.

                      And “carguy” will never believe it, but the acceleration from the DTS Northstar V8 and hydramatic is excellent, unless you are trying to make a childish “burn rubber” jackrabbit start. The only bad thing about the speed of the DTS is that when you first get used to it, you might not realize how fast you are going until you look at the speedometer. You might think you are going 30 based on how the car feels, then you realize you are going 45. To me that’s the mark of a great car, but I guess it’s not for the crowd that thinks it’s “fun” to get bounced around in a cramped vehicle.

                      For me it’s a lot more fun to travel smoothly and comfortably, as if I’m riding on a cushion of air, but to each his/her own. And frankly, everyone who has seen my car and thought it was too “grandpa”, have had a much different view once they’ve ridden in it.

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                    2. This has nothing to do with who can afford what it has to do with what demographic the company should target for long term brand strength and profitable. Luxury performance and muscle car performance are not the same. A Camaro cant compete with a 435i or a C300 coupe, that’s why GM needs to transition and target the heart of the luxury market. The largest segments. not the lower end lincoln/buick/acura FWD upgraded economy car market.

                      And Drew, the DTS as terrible acceleration if you step on it, the gearing gives the illution of decent acceleration at low speeds if you dont push it but it runs out of steam real quick. Also the suspension is so soft that god forbid you have to swerve or tern and faster then 5mph the car is at a 45 degree angle.

                      CT6 gives you smooth ride comfort and performance is a high quality state of the art platform designed specifically to be a flagship Cadillac. thats what makes it a better car.

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                    3. “Carguy”, a normal driver will never have a problem with a DTS. That’s 85% of the public. True you can’t drive it like a Ferrari or Porsche, so what? It’s a fantastic highway cruiser, awesome around town too. But it’s not a toy, so be it. Unless you drive like a maniac (and apparently YOU DO), you’ll never have a problem in this car.

                      As to the CT6 being some sort of perfect blend of handling and comfort, no sorry, it isn’t. Not really great at either one, especially bad on the comfort side. Read this from “PowerSteering” (JD Power review):

                      “Normal, Sport, and Snow/Ice driving modes adjust the car’s response, but even in Normal mode the CT6 feels too taut and stiff. Choose Sport mode and the steering is excessively heavy while the suspension delivers an almost brittle ride quality. Cadillac would do well to calibrate a Comfort driving mode, one supplying gentle throttle tip-in, light and effortless steering, and the wafting ride that affluent passengers may prefer.”

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                    4. From the same article you quoted: “According to J.D. Power research data, 63% of Large Premium Car owners identify themselves as performance buyers, and 96% say they like a vehicle with responsive handling and powerful acceleration.” and I bet that number isn’t going down…. and while older people might not chew bubble gum there are plenty of habits and preferences that stay for decades once set, I’m guess big cushy cars were hot when you started driving so that’s what you still want…. I bet most gen x and millenials will stick with performance Lux as they age.

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                    5. “Carguy”, big cushy cars have never been “hot”, but they will always be in demand, and that’s likely to increase in the future, not decrease. Today’s millennials will not be driving cramped back-breaking “performance” cars when they are older, I guarantee it.

                      When I was young, a lot of kids dreamed of having a Corvette Stingray . When I was in high school, there were many guys who wanted “muscle cars” like the Pontiac GTO. I had a good friend in HS who managed to buy a used GTO “Judge” (one of the prime muscle cars) , and was he ever proud of it, even leaking oil as it was. When I was in college, the “hot” car for engineering graduates was the Pontiac Trans Am, with a massive bird decal on the hood (I’m not kidding). Of course today, Pontiac is no longer a brand. The fad faded.

                      By the way, you said you thought the DTS was tippy in the type of turns you like to make. That’s laughable, since no one ever rolled a DTS that I’m aware of. Also, do you realize that the DTS has far better handling than any SUV? And yet SUVs are hugely popular today. So much for people of today putting such a big premium on handling in their cars.

                      As far as answering a poll, most people probably didn’t know what the question was about. They don’t know that “performance” means a very stiff ride capable of tight turns at fast speeds. More likely they think “performance” means “runs good”. As in what’s the opposite of “performance”, failure? Yeah sign me up for that.

                      No way do 96% of premium car buyers want to trade comfortable ride for fast tight turns. How do I know this? Because I can see how other people drive, and there just aren’t that many maniacs on the road. The vast majority drive exactly as I do, in fact I probably drive a little faster and do more lane changing than average. And I definitely don’t need a so-called “performance” car.

                      If they are paying for that type of “performance”, they are stupid because they aren’t using it. They either don’t know what “performance” means, or they are just following the fad, buying what the automotive press tells them to buy, or thinking they’ll impress others by having a “performance” car that they don’t actually use.

                      The “performance” fad is like whitewall tires, like rear spoilers on cars, like fake “spoke” hubcaps, etc. Like avocado colored refrigerators, “shag” carpeting, beanbag chairs, lava lamps, wood-paneled basements, etc. Those were all very prevalent, now very hard to find. I wish we could get a brief glimpse into the future, 10 and 20 years from now, so that I could be proven correct. Yes there will always be “performance” cars, but “performance luxury” will not dominate the luxury market of the future. People often think fads are here to stay, until they are gone. Especially very young people who have not seen fads come and go.

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              2. Reliability issues tarnished Cadillac not luxury cars. The early Northstar engines had issues. Cadillac failed to stand behind their mistake costing owners thousands and Cadillac a loss of reputation and future business.

                Don’t worry about who will or will not be in a nursing home. Cadillac needs to sell cars now or the folks who eventually enter a LTC will be regaling staffers with accounts of a wonderful Cadillac that is no more.

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                1. Susan, you are so right that reliability issues are what hurt Cadillac more than anything. It’s what drove luxury buyers to Lexus from Cadillac, until the very recent “sport luxury” (German dominated) fad. Henry here shared a video of Cadillac from the History Channel, and in it they note that Cadillac’s reputation began via reliability from the very first models. For Cadillac to lose sight of reliability was to forget their core values.

                  Yes the Northstar had issues early on, but those were soon worked out. I’d say the Northstar is a very reliable engine once beyond the early ones, but it is also very difficult to work on mechanically. Not that any engine is easy to work on, basically you don’t want engine problems. And that’s been a strength of most American cars.

                  The engine that really hurt Cadillac’s reputation was the V8-6-4, an attempt to be the “perfect blend” of V8 power with 4 cylinder fuel efficiency. A nice idea on paper, poor and probably impossible execution at that time. Perhaps Cadillac should have gone with a turbo at that time, but some people don’t like “turbo lag” and “turbo whine”. Personally I don’t mind the lag that much, and I loved the turbo whine. Unfortunately most turbos today don’t have the whine, due to turbo noise suppression and/or cancellation. Sadly missed!

                  As far as those “nursing home” comments, it’s crazy for some here to think that the market for roomy comfortable cars will “die off”. As if people will stop aging, and their tastes and needs will never change as they get older. If that were true, bubble gum would be a big seller among adults. Frankly the older demographic is increasing, and Cadillac would be very silly to try to become the car of rich millennials only. Despite having the incredibly talented Melody Lee turning all high-wealth millennials into Cadillac buyers with her magic wand of luxury branding .

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                  1. Drew,

                    I remember the V8-6-4. As a result of that engine 4-6-8 became vernacular for anything that was not operating properly. Not firing on all cylinders,

                    Yes, the Northstar engines had the issues worked out. The problems that were in the late DeVille and early DTS with Northstar left the car owner hanging. Cadillac buyers drifted away in those years.

                    I would not hesitate to buy a DTS in good condition if I could find one.

                    If you enjoy your DTS drive it until the wheels fall off. I doubt you will find a Cad to make you as happy as the car you have now.

                    I still miss my DeVille. That was a great car. I had a Fleetwood I was nuts about in the 70’s but my ’93 DeVille is my Hall of Fame Cadillac.

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                  2. Drew,

                    I’m with you on the comments about nursing homes and and people dying off. As long as we still see Cadillac hearses no one it too old for a Cadillac.

                    The youngsters who love their ATS are ok too. In my world an ATS is a tarted up Cruze. Makes no diff as I am not in the market for an ATS.

                    To each their own. I am somewhat amused at the comments. Makes the site fun to read. We are all passionate about our Caddys so that’s a good sign for the brand.

                    We’d rather fight than switch 😉

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                    1. “We are all passionate about our Caddys so that’s a good sign for the brand.

                      We’d rather fight than switch ;)”

                      I’m with you on that Susan! I guess with xts and ats et al they can keep both of us happy!

                      I do have to note quick though that ats is more of a tarted up Camaro then a Cruze ?

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              3. Book

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  2. Names of cars are meaningless! The name of a car has zero effect on weather it sells or sits on lots! People need to spend more time looking at the car instead of what the name is.

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    1. I disagree. Case in point, if Buick were to throw out a larger Avista and call it the Riviera, they can take my money, I’d purchase one immediately. If they call it an Avista, no. Classic names have equity, look at the success in marketing that the Continental has become. This is an area where domestic car makes have an advantage, they can harken back to previous names that still have value.

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      1. So your telling me that you will not buy a car if it doesn’t have a nice name attached to it? That’s ridiculous!

        So if the corvette was called C7 or the X car the name would keep you from owning the car? This tells me that you are very insecure and can’t stomach the idea of having to tell your friends the name of your car. It seems like you would rather have a car that has a kool name instead of a car that looked good and performed well.

        It blows me away how some people will justify buying a car. This is the reason Oldsmobile took all of the emblems off their cars a one point so they could just sell the car and not the name!

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        1. I didn’t say I wouldn’t purchase a car that didn’t have a name attached to it. I said if a particular car had a particular name attached to it, absolutely. These kind of things have value; classic names have value. Let’s say Apple Computer somehow goes out of business in the next 10 years. And 30 years from now investors purchased the rights to the name Apple when it relates to computer and consumer electronics and release products. Do you think the millennial generation of today would take a harder look at those products at that time; they absolutely would.

          Anyhow, back to cars, the moniker Riviera means something to me. If I can ride down the 101 freeway in a current year Riviera, listening to Marvin Gaye – Trouble Man or Tears for Fears – Everybody Wants to Rule the World turned up, windows down, breezes in my hair, on Bose premium speakers, I absolutely would. Because, it means something to me; it’d remind me of back when my parents purchased a brand new Riviera – great memories while my young three person family (my parents and me) were on top of the world. Brand names have equity. A name like Avista means nothing to no one. Riviera, does.

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          1. These names have some meaning to you! But should GM do this for 1% of the buying public? No!

            I personally could care less what they call a car or truck. I have a old 1970 chevy truck C10 I love my truck I’ve have it for over 40 years. Do I think if they changed the name of the current silverado to C10, C20, C30 that sells of the full size truck would double or triple? No!

            The content of the vehicle is what matters!

            Do you think people are going to start buying Texas instruments computers if I start putting them out later this year? No!

            Unless the computer is much much better then what is out now!

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      2. That goes both ways though, for example younger people like myself (I’m 29) don’t want a riviera or continental. I love my ats would never buy it if it was called a Seville.

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        1. I’ve always thought Audi cars look much better than Cadillacs….I saw an ATS in a parking lot and it just looks weird in the exterior design….it reminded me of a bloated moper drag race car with a big fat butt…..I HATE EM….REALLY HATE EM.

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        2. Ian – seriously, you love your ATS but would never buy it if it were called a Seville? The lack of a real name really matters that much to you? Well I still think Cadillac should give real names to cars with classic Cadillac values, and meaningless letters/numbers to cars which attempt to emulate German values. Then its obvious as to which is which, and everyone is happy.

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        3. I do have to note quick though that ats is more of a tarted up Camaro then a Cruze ?

          Well said Ian

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          1. How can the ATS be a tarted up camaro when the ATS came out first? Do you make this conclusion because both cars ride on the alpha platform? In fact the camaro rides on the alpha platform based off the CTS not the ATS!

            The ATS and the camaro are two totally different cars.

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  3. luxury doesn’t mean high performance, hard riding, cutting corners and cramped interiors….thats why the ATS, CTS and CT6 are being outsold by the XTS…..personaly the ATS/CTS needs to die.

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  4. They sure better update the powertrain if they want this car to be taken seriously. I mean why does a car costing up to 60K or more still use the same exact engine/transmission as a cheaper 30-40k Chevy Impala? Then there’s the other elephant in the room. The 2017 Lacrosse came with a newer more modern 3.6 LGX V6 and 8 speed transmission and for 2018 upgrades to the 9 speed. This drivetrain should be on the Cadillac. But knowing GM they will keep it as is and update meaningless things like grille textures and add more electronic crap in to inflate the already high prices.

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    1. My CTS has GM’s home brew eight speed trans. It shifts like a student driver.

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      1. The transmission quality and reliability is often overlooked, and it is especially egregious when a luxury car fails to have a smooth transmission. There’s too much emphasis today on the number of gears. Again the 4-speed hydramatic mated to the Northstar V8 was smooth as silk and considered virtually unbreakable (once they’d gotten past the first year or so and made some adjustments).

        An 8 or 9 speed transmission is just a “look how many gears it has” thing, and completely unnecessary for normal driving. Possible an 8 or 9 speed can eke out a very small gain in gas milage over a 6-speed, but it’s over engineered and likely unreliable in virtually any car. But put an 8 speed car for sale next to a 4 speed, and the gullible public will assume that the 8 speed is not only “better” but they can show off to people “I’ve got an 8 speed!”. So for the sake of sales/marketing, they make cars with more gears, helpful or not.

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        1. Drew,

          My understanding is that the 8 speed is for fuel efficiency. This from a SM who is no stranger to alternative facts so take it with a grain of salt. I loved the four speed trans with overdrive. That car stepped out when I needed it to.

          I never bought a Cadillac for fuel efficiency. Just my thing not a universal standard.

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  5. the ELR is an odd looking car and the XTS does have the same design elements as the ELR…..its a thing called A&S.

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  6. I see a bunch of comments here about Cadillac making grandpa cars… OK, I guess only grandpa’s drive an S-class Mercedes, or any RR. When you ASSUME something, it only makes an ASS out of U. There will always be a market for soft riding cars, did GM stop selling Suburbans or Corvettes when gas went up to $4.00 a gallon? Are men the only ones buying pickup trucks, just because they`re considered “manly”. Are poor people the only ones who shop at thrift stores?

    There was a restaurant in my town called The Little Inn, everything was the exact same since it had opened in the 70’s. Even though there were a lot of old men who hung out there, it was always crowded, young, old, black, white, everyone went there. The place had good food, friendly staff, and decent prices. In 2012 3 young guys bought the place and made it “hip”, to try and attract a young crowd….. the place was only opened for 3 years and was never as crowded.

    What I’m trying to say is, just because the old Cadillac is considered “grandpa-ish”, doesnt mean that only “grandpas” drive them. When you buy a car, you shouldn’t care what anyone else thinks (except maybe your spouse), you should buy what you want, and if you do spend $40,000+ on something that YOU have to live with, just to impress someone else, you probably have self esteem issues.

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    1. I think the point people are trying to make isn’t the image the cars project, but what the younger generation want to drive/buy. While I’m sure, like anything else, there will always be a market for soft riding cars right now that market is shrinking. The market is trending towards performance/ sport because that’s what younger people want and from a business perspective they have many more car purchases ahead of them. Cadillac is just changing (some of their lineup at least) with the market demographics pure and simple.

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      1. Mike jr,

        That’s understandable. The XTS is already developed so it’s all gravy for Cadillac. Let the folks who like XTS buy it. People who prefer the sporty models won’t disappear because a stranger bought an XTS.

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  7. I’m pretty sure that future luxury cars will have smooth rides and fairly good handling….

    great handing.
    great power.
    great ride and comfort.

    luxury isn’t about NASCAR wannabe stiff hard riding cars that assholes drive to show off and cutting corners like fast and the furious.

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    1. seems like you really hate NASCAR and Fast and furious lol. I like the drive fast cars that handle like my ATS. I think it rides more then well enough and handling is awesome, some of the best in the market. I wouldn’t give up that rear wheel drive chassis balance for more comfort any day.

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      1. Ian,

        It’s great to have a car you love. Glad you are so pleased with your ATS. Other customers may want something a little different. There is no reason for Cadillac not to satisfy that market and get everyone’s money. It’s all about sales.

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      2. Ian, yes as Susan said it’s fine that you like your ATS, and that you like NASCAR-like driving and “fast n furious” RWD drifting. Well actually not fine, if you are cutting in and out of traffic like a maniac. But if you do that without endangering and annoying others on the road, your choice is your choice.

        But it’s not so much that others “hate” NASCAR and “fast n furious”, it’s that people who love the classic Cadillac values (roomy, comfortable, etc.) don’t like seeing the brand trashed in favor of “fast n furious” values. Especially when some of them say that it’s essential to kill off all vestiges of the old Cadillac, simply to suit the small segment of the public that prefers “performance” cars. And from a business perspective, that doesn’t make any sense for GM either.

        By the way, Cadillac so well established a sought-after comfortable ride, that it was known as “the Cadillac ride”. The ATS is about as far as you can get from “the Cadillac ride”, even harsher than the similar sized BMW 3 series, and BMW is known for harsh rides.

        The “performance” thing is a fad for the majority of people who don’t drive their cars like that. It’s a little like buying the SUV that has the best off-road capabilities, when you never intend to take it off-road. The “performance” fad will end, along with the related “low profile” tire fad, even though there will always be a few die-hards who truly do want cars they can drive like maniacs.

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        1. Your wrong, the reason all the German brands out sell Cadillac is because most people don’t want soft riding cars. that might be what people were looking for back in Cadillac hay day but not anymore. That’s why they are making changes and have ats/cts/ct6 to win new buyers and stop buyers from leaving for German brands. While the xts may earn sales keeping the traditionalist happy it does nothing for the brand image moving forward. Like some others have said cars like xts will not bring in younger buyers but ats and cts will. And Cadillac needs to bring in younger buyers to thrive. Ct6 will be the car these people move into as they grow older and want more space and comfort.

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          1. Ian, sorry but you are too young to realize that fads come and go. The “performance” thing being a mainstream feature of luxury cars is a fad, for sure. Just as sure as the skinny (low profile) tires are a fad today.

            The CT6 is not a comfortable car. It attempts to bridge the gap between performance and comfort, and fails at both. Sales figures of under 12k units for the first full year of production indicate it’s a major flop. As to the comfort/stiffness of the ride, I’ll quote JD Power’s “PowerSteering” review of the CT6 driving dynamics:

            “Normal, Sport, and Snow/Ice driving modes adjust the car’s response, but even in Normal mode the CT6 feels too taut and stiff. Choose Sport mode and the steering is excessively heavy while the suspension delivers an almost brittle ride quality. Cadillac would do well to calibrate a Comfort driving mode, one supplying gentle throttle tip-in, light and effortless steering, and the wafting ride that affluent passengers may prefer.”

            Sorry but that’s nothing like the “Cadillac ride”. And unless human physiology has changed, there will always be a strong desire for comfortable cars. Cadillac once led in that area (hence the name “Cadillac ride”), it should be selling it as a feature instead of running away from it to embrace the short term “performance luxury” fad. Very short-sighted by GM/Cadillac.

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        2. “Drew” you know annoys me?? All the people driving 10 under the speed limit in there devilles getting in my way.
          Cadillac has a new set of values And I gaurentee anyone with more then 20 years of driving left in them would rather have a cts-v then an xts

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          1. Cts-v is def a brand builder… cars like that will be the future of Cadillac if they’re smart, I’d love to buy one.

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          2. Hey Carguy,

            if you see one of those DeVilles try to get a phone # for me. I’d love to buy one. I have a lot more than 20 years of driving left and I need a good car! 🙂

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        3. Drew,

          I get confused with the fast and furious folks. My CTS is a slug. If I want to wind it up from 35mph to 40 in the city it’s right there. In highway traffic lane change and passing is a challenge. Never had that experience with any of my other Cads.

          This takes a lot of getting used to for a person who always drove a car that responded. My CTS is all about acceptance.

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          1. Susan, that’s a shame that your CTS is apparently underpowered. I wasn’t aware of that being a problem with the CTS, although XTS owners have desired more power (and of course the DTS has plenty, with that torquey Northstar V8 in all models, even the base version).

            A true Cadillac should never be underpowered. This is the brand after all that made the first mass-produced V8 engine. And a feature that has traditionally distinguished American consumer cars from Japanese and European ones, is that American cars were strongly powered, as well as roomy and comfortable-riding.

            It’s sad if Cadillac has lost sight of even the strongly-powered part, given that the other two have already been fading from their values. Maybe they expected you to get a CTS-V. Cadillac needs to get back to minimum standards in ALL Cadillacs.

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            1. Drew, It is a shame. My car has the 2.0 turbo and GM’s home brew eight speed trans. Don’t know why the car lacks acceleration but it does. I consider it a city commuter. Nothing more.

              Drew, I think it may be penny pinching on GM’s part. So often I look for something that Cadillac always had and it’s not there. Interior fit and finish is cheap.

              Oh, how the mighty have fallen. I’m not surprised that sales are down. I’m finished with Cadillac.

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              1. Susan, maybe there’s something wrong with your CTS as far as acceleration. Possibly you could get it checked out, next time you have it in for maintenance, to see if it’s performing up to spec. The 2.0 turbo should be giving it decent power, but if it isn’t, it plays into my thought that a real Cadillac should never be underpowered and the engine also should not be harsh sounding.

                Many years ago I had a Chrysler with a 2.2L turbo, and I wouldn’t say it lacked power. Maybe not quite Cadillac power, but good power, substantially more than the 2.5 non-turbo that was also an option for that model. The Chrysler’s automatic transmission had – get this – 3 speeds!

                In fact I’ve always had 3 or 4 speed transmissions in my cars (including my 4 speed DTS), and while the milage could have been better, the cars I have owned have never lacked power or smoothness. Maybe 8 speeds are a step backward, a marketing winner but performance loser. I swear Cadillac perfected the 4 speed hydramatic, and it’s a shame that those won’t sell to people who think more gears = better.

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                1. The industry use to use the big huge power sapping a/c compressor and now the industry has move to a more efficient compressor.

                  The point being is that just because that’s the way we use to do things is not a good reason to never move forward.

                  More gears does mean better transmissions! Don’t believe me go ask a truck driver that drives a semi.

                  From all indications the new 10 speed transmission is leaps and bounds better then the 8 speed it replaces.

                  You need to get out of the past and move to the future or at stop telling the rest of us to lag behind with you

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                  1. Brian, a car with more gears is “better” as long as those gears work as quickly, smoothly, and reliably as a car with fewer gears. A lot of the new transmissions seem to be for marketing appeal and stated fuel efficiency numbers. How many of them work well?

                    I’m not saying cars should go back to 4 speeds, but they should only add more gears if the cars with extra gears work as well as those with 4 gears. Sounds like Susan’s 8 speed CTS with the 2.0 turbo does not work very well. That’s a shame on any car calling itself a Cadillac.

                    As to a truck with 10 forward gears, well that’s a truck. I’m not surprised to hear that comment though, from someone who doesn’t mind if a sedan rides like a truck, as long as it has the “handling” to make 90* turns at 90 mph.

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                    1. I am done trying to educate you! You are stuck on your nonsense! Stay in the past and keep complaining about the current cars or today. This will keep you miserable which seems about right.

                      Start enjoying life instead of complaining about every aspect of it!

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                    2. Gee Brian, thanks for trying to “educate” me. I’m not at all against modern cars, modern designs, modern technology. I am against Cadillac abandoning its traditional values in favor of embracing traditional German ones. Get it now?

                      You seem to be in favor of killing off any Cadillac that is roomy and smooth riding, or FWD, with some crazy idea that those are not “modern” cars that will appeal to anyone in 10 years or so. I say Cadillac is killing its own brand, by selling cheap de-contented cars under the Cadillac badge that are underpowered, unreliable, have poorly functioning transmissions, are cramped, hard-riding, have vinyl seats, halogen headlights, and cheap stereos.

                      It doesn’t ruin my day to point out that Cadillac once had stronger brand values than they have today. I guess some of you millennials constantly need a time out, or a participation trophy, or a safe zone where no one challenges your views. I’m fine discussing the pros and cons of anything, but apparently you would like message boards to be nothing but cheerleader forums.

                      Guess what? Nothing stays the same over time. Today’s fads will become distant memories, even if you think they’ll last forever. “Fast n furious” luxury is a popular fad today, but it will be considered a joke by the next generation. Cadillac needs to be positioned with long term values in mind, not throwing away its brand to pursue cheap fleeting fads. It’s clearly not working anyway. Cadillac needs to go back to being a leader, not a follower.

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                2. Drew,

                  I’ll ask the service department to look into that the next time the car goes in. I tried to get the acceleration checked by the selling dealer shortly after delivery. SM gave me the woman jive and told Cad C.S. functions as designed. File was closed abruptly by C S rep. Customer has very little sway with the new Cadillac.

                  I had the car serviced in March by a different dealer. I was favorably impressed with the dealer. They addressed items that were not on my long list.

                  Thanks for the suggestion!

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  8. the ATS….yuk….its not a real Cadillac or luxury car…..not only the ATS is ugly as sin but it’s also vary cramped and too stiff/hard riding…if you like your ATS…thats fine with me…..at least I don’t have to own one.

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    1. Again rye, that’s what younger buys like me want. It is a real Cadillac, luxury doesn’t just mean a smooth ride, and it certainly doesn’t mean “soft riding”. Modern luxury means high quality engineering and construction(i.e. Alpha not episilon 2), great handling, and tons of technology. a soft rolly ride will loose more customer then a stiff ride will.

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    2. like i said changing markets, give the people what they want.

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  9. the ATS, CTS and CT6 are being outsold by the FWD CUVs and XTS….I doent like the hard, jittery ride….why did they make the ATS so ugly ??…..it looks like a little moper drag race car lol.

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  10. I want to agree with Drew, more gears is not always better. Mazda, is by far the most efficient car company (not my opinion), they have the greatest power per gallon ratio and they are able to do it for many reasons i.e. lighter cars, greater aerodynamics, SkyActiv technology. But, they still use a 6- spd transmission in most, if not all vehicles. When it comes to transmissions, you have to find a happy medium, 4 gears is too few, and 10 gears is too much, Personally, I think anything above 8 is over-doing it. The bottom line is, having too many gears, can actually hinder performance and efficiency.

    Also, when I think of ‘luxury”, I dont think about how well the car can take a corner (as long as it turns), I think about how fast the car is, and how comfortable the ride is. If you want a car that can speed around corners without any body-roll, buy yourself a sports car. Ian, Carguy, I agree with you, that a luxury car should be able to get up and go, but I have to disagree with you on the fact that nobody likes comfortable riding cars anymore, and that all luxury cars should be performance oriented. If I want something that does great on the backroads, and I can take to the track, Ill buy a sports car, but when I’m driving down the highway for long distances, I want something that is big, comfortable, and has no trouble passing other cars.

    Luxury cars should be big and comfortable. When it comes to housing, and someone says “luxury”, do you think about a tiny shack, or a big mansion with thick walls, and soft carpets.

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    1. Henry, again I find myself agreeing with you 100%. Cadillac established the standards of American luxury quite some time ago, and that’s why it not only dominated sales for decades, but it became an American icon, so often referenced in popular songs, etc. It’s why Americans use the phrase “the Cadillac of…X” to reflect the full line of features and the highest quality. And how can a Cadillac be a Cadillac without “the Cadillac ride”, which means the “riding on a cloud”, “magic carpet ride”, not something harsh and stiff to take sharp turns at excessive speeds.

      These self-anointed “enthusiasts” seem to think that harsh, bumpy, “feel the road” and cramped means “luxury” if it “looks cool” and yields a somewhat better ability to take hairpin turns without lean. It’s as if they believe that some sort of hair-shirt suffering is required to reach the nirvana of minimal-lean turns, and this suffering is actually part of the luxury of fitting in with their millennial peers. This is the antithesis of luxury, not the pinnacle of it. How did this view of “luxury” ever get so warped?

      Cars that may make sense for short trips on the perfect and high speed German Autobahn simply do not make sense for long American highway cruises or navigating ill-maintained US local roads. At some point the insane fan of emulating German auto values will end. When the majority of “luxury” car buyers don’t need the “handling” features they are being sold, yet they suffer the harsh ride that goes along with that handling (except on the $100k+ S-Class, yes I know), some day people will wake up and say “why are we falling for this?”.

      If Cadillac can embrace its traditional values in a truly modern model, they will be so well positioned for the end of the German-value fad. Unfortunately current management might kill off the last vestige of American values, in a foolish attempt to copy BMW. But the fact that Johan has chosen to continue the XTS is at least a good sign, I’ll be eager to see what he and the Cadillac team have come up with there.

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      1. This idea that a luxury car is either soft riding or bone jarring is ridiculous. Those days are long gone, with the new suspension system of today being put in a performance Cadillac v series you cab have both worlds with the different suspension modes.

        A CTS-V can ride as smooth as a cruiser or as hard as a corvette ZO6!

        So stop knocking these cars for not being true Cadillacs, they are better then the Cadillacs of the past because you can have a taste of the old style and the new all in the same car!

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        1. Brian, if only that were true. There’s no way to adjust the CTS-V suspension to make it as smooth riding at the Cadillacs of the past. “Tour mode” does not do it. The problem I suspect is that you have no experience riding in real Cadillacs of the past. The “Cadillac ride” is virtually gone. The engineers need to keep some classic Cadillacs around and in running condition, so that they can experience what the ride is supposed to feel like. At the very least they could try to match the DTS ride, arguably the last of the real Cadillacs.

          The new Lincoln Continental is too stiff as well, what a missed opportunity there to grab market share from Cadillac and others. The pinwheel-design wheels are hideous too (not to mention possibly seizure-inducing). And the laughable copying of others such as Bentley shows that Ford/Lincoln still doesn’t have the bold original styling of Cadillac.

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          1. I have had the pleasure of riding in all types of Cadillacs that go back 30, 40, 50 years. This idea you have that the cars of today are too bone jarring is ridiculous! Is it true because you say so? Well I say that the ride in touring mode is nice and comfortable.

            If these are the reasons you don’t like Cadillac then Cadillac doesn’t have any problems going forward.

            Cadillac needs to finish rounding out its line up, guys like me are have no problem waiting for Cadillac to come out with new models and complete the process.

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        2. Sounds like someone is quoting the most recent Caddy ad, you could drive any car with a cup of coffee on the roof and have it not spill when you use a road that smooth, lets see the same commercial on a REAL road.

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  11. not only rides are too stiff these days…..but the exterior designs are dull and boring compared to cars 40 years ago as old cars are better than new ones.

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  12. Having read this I thought it was rather enlightening. I appreciate you spending some time and effort to put this informative article together. I once again find myself personally spending way too much time both reading and leaving comments. But so what, it was still worth it!

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