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Kelley Blue Book Hands The 2017 Cadillac CT6 A Dose Of Reality: Video

The Cadillac CT6 has been a mixed bag of impressions since it was first introduced. However, it has generally been applauded at accomplishing what it sets out to do, despite not being a true flagship sedan.

Kelley Blue Book set its sights on the 2017 Cadillac CT6 for its latest in-depth review, and it handed the luxury sedan some harsh realities. Specifically, KBB said the ride, handling and suspension were unnecessary for the target market buying the CT6.

Despite what Cadillac will show in advertisements and marketing, there likely aren’t many millennials purchasing a Cadillac CT6. Instead, it’s going to be older and wealthier customers. And most of them likely aren’t going to care for its incredibly engineered chassis and driving dynamics. Because, instead, it’s going to communicate too much with the driver and offer an unpleasant experience in their eyes.

You can watch the entire review of the CT6 in the video right up above. If you’d like to read what we think about the CT6, you can find our thoughts right here.

Former GM Authority staff writer.

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Comments

  1. You said it: the CT6, while a wonderfully engineered car with a great value-to-content ratio, is still something of a mixed bag. Motor Trend pitted a 2.0T model against the new E300 Benz and Volvo S90. No surprise when they placed the Caddy dead last on the grounds of its sub-par interior, crashed CUE interface, and somewhat bland steering. Then Auto Guide pitted a CT6 against the new Genesis G90 only to once again see the Caddy get upstaged; by an up and coming luxury brand! Funny thing is, Cadillac has been thrashed for years about producing underwhelming, floaty cars built for retirees! Now they finally give us world-class performance and journalists are bemoaning the harsh ride and over-emphasis on sport and not luxury! What can Cadillac do to appease the media and the public?!!

    It’s time for an intervention with the Cadillac division…..

    Reply
  2. That was a blistering review from KBB . And Consumers Report just gave the same type of review a few days ago . Now that the car has been out for awhile it seems it’s been given not the reviews that Cadillac may have wanted .
    It is Cadillac’s flagship model but not a true flagship model , thats why the decision was made sometime ago to back away from the ” S-Class ” fighter it had started out to be , a good move on their part .
    It’s been a 50 / 50 preposition from the auto world on just where to place the CT6 , not a sports car and not a true luxury car compared to others .
    The older white haired crowd will never even open the hood and as long as it looks good going from point A to B thats all they care about . And the millenials don’t want it because of the lack of a V-8 although these days luxury cars for the masses don’t need one anymore because the lighter weight of cars and the new tech engines . I do get the crowd that wants those 8 cyl.’s because there is a power war going on right now .
    Cadillac needs a vehicle A.S.A.P that is above what we see right now , 2020 can’t come soon enough .

    Reply
  3. The fact is this car is a product of too many leaders at Cadillac. It was started under one and completed by others who were gone by intro.

    Mark Ruess inherited it to finish it under duress of the board not letting him do as he wanted to do with higher quality bits. By the time JDN arrived about all he could do is contribute to some marketing and declare it not the flagship of Cadillac as it once was planned.

    Like JDN or not he did the right thing and pulled the Flagship tag.

    Nice car but not a great car and too close to the CTS.

    Like an engine company rep I spoke to today. He said they have to compete with Ford and GM on crate engines and to do so since they have a lesser known name is to provide more HP, Better Service, Better Warranty and a slightly lower price as they have no big name to bank on.

    This company right now is offering better engines in class and have come from nearly no where to becoming a true competitor of GM and Ford. It has taken work, time, investment as they cast their own blocks now. So now they are being seen as a viable alternative. Cadillac will have to do the same and we should get an idea of the product in the next 18-24 months with the first release under the new management.

    Like I have said one vehicle and one year will not undo decades of the lack of attention, lack of funding and lack detail GM has bestowed on Cadillac in making sub par cars for a long time.

    Reply
    1. You start every one of your comments with “the fact is…” You seem to know something we don’t. Do you work for GM?

      Reply
      1. Not I do not work for GM but that does not change the documented history of what has happened.

        If I worked for GM I would not speak openly critical about the car.

        Reply
        1. I disagree with your assertion that: “[O]ne vehicle and one year will not undo decades of the lack of attention, lack of funding and lack detail GM has bestowed on Cadillac”. A single vehicle CAN be the savior for a company. Look at what the XC90 did for Volvo. They are having trouble keeping up with demand. And all because the designers knew their market. They didnt try to build a BMW or Mercedes “fighter”. They built a uniquely Scandinavian take on what a luxury SUV should be. It exudes prestige and luxury. Even the volume knobs are unique. This trickles down to the S90 and will soon be found in the smaller models. I assert that Cadillac has no such vision, and that it is why each model reviews poorly. Even their concepts lack a clear design direction and language (see the recent automobile mag design evaluation of the escala concept). Now that welburn is gone, maybe they can just let art&science go away.

          Reply
          1. A big part of the problem of a brand, is when a brand doesn’t know what it should be, or keeps changing. That being said, the Escalade is a Cadillac that is making a lot of money for GM, and is enhancing the brand at the same time. It’s not a “sport riding” Cadillac, but I don’t think Cadillac should have ever tried to be that.

            A large segment of the public – probably the vast majority – still sees Cadillac in terms of the key words: Big, Comfortable, Roomy, Quiet, Powerful, Elegant, Luxurious, Angular American Styling, Advanced Technology. What they don’t tend to see it as is a competitor of BMW or Porsche, in terms of hard-riding “sportiness” or “small and cramped” or “rounded styling”. But some people want Cadillac to be (or include) exactly that, as they see BMW as “the best” and feel that to be the best, you have to copy the best and go them one better.

            But what is “best”? Best at any price, like a Maybach or Rolls Royce? Is a Ferrari-like sporty ride “best”, or is a plush Mercedes S-Class ride best? Since Cadillac spent decades establishing a comfortable, roomy ride as their standard, it makes no sense to me to abandon that for something else. Yet that’s what the CT6 continues to do, even though it’s a lot better in a traditional Cadillac sense than the ATS (which is even more cramped and has an even harsher ride than the comparable BWM, how’s that for out-BMWing-BMW?).

            Cadillac could have taken their traditions and merely improved on them, established better reliability, etc. – without abandoning their original mission (i.e. the “keywords” previously mentioned). If GM wanted a “performance” division, they should have expanded Corvette into an entire brand, rather than limiting it to just one car. The Cadillac identity crisis continues, is it an American luxury icon or a BMW-wannabe? The CT6 – as that review suggests – is not just a “tweener” in size (between mid-size and full-size), it’s a “tweener” between traditional American luxury and German racing performance, and as such fully satisfies no one.

            Personally I think the market for traditionally American luxury is a better space for Cadillac to compete in, than the crowded “German-like performance” segment. Also the “roomy, comfortable, luxury” market should expand as baby boomers age – they may imagine they are still kids at Woodstock but their aging bones will tell them to look beyond cramped, hard-riding, “sporty” cars.

            Reply
          2. Meg the XC90 is only a foundation the brand can build on. One car never has changed an entire companies image in one year alone.

            Cadillac needs to land one SUV crossover and one sedan that is world class and continue to refine it to be the best in class over time to earn the honor of being the best.

            BMW was the quirky company before the 3 series and they made it their foundation and applied what they learned there and what people liked to the other products in the 5 and 7 series. Later to their SUV models.

            I agree with Drew Cadillac has really had too many models done under too many different leaders over the last 10 years. We now appear to have stable leadership but he is not putting his money all on the old products. He is taking the time to make all new models and apply the same theme on all of them. What that is has yet to be seen yet but at least they are approaching it the right way with enough money and one leader.

            Cumberford is a cranky old man who wished he was an art critic. He has his opinions but few pay any attention to them as they are subjective at best. I saw his notes and for the most he did not condemn the car but he is old school and would rather they kept the points that have lost the magic.

            Cadillac need to reinvent themselves as they lost the handle of what worked and got left behind. They will find their place and it will be much like all others in class with cars that are comfortable and can be found in the luxury model with a sport version. All will stop turn and handle well. Not all have to have a ring time but they can not wallow anymore.

            The reality is the Wreath, Fins, Egg Crete, and bench seats are gone. No one would even think of going back to that today.

            Some of the others are trying to give up their hallmarks too. Benz has been changing grilles. Alfa really needs to rethink the nose. BMW has grown tired looking but as long as sales remain they will not change.

            The main thing to remember here Cadillac is like a new company coming to market. Most people today could care less of what they were and what they built since it was so long since they have made a world class leading car. Starting over is not easy and getting up to date takes time.

            We just need to let JDN do his thing and see what happens. What he has coming may work really well, it could be ok or it could fail. We just have to wait to see what comes and let it happen. As of now I see no one on the web with any sure thing ideas offered either.

            My thought is once collective view of the lines from one leader will be a big improvement . But will that be enough to bring the other needed changes?

            Reply
            1. “The main thing to remember here Cadillac is like a new company coming to market. Most people today could care less of what they were and what they built since it was so long since they have made a world class leading car. Starting over is not easy and getting up to date takes time. ”

              Scott3, sorry but I can’t even come close to agreeing with that. Cadillac should NOT be trying to introduce itself as a “new brand” and forget the past. For one thing, the past is already ingrained in the public’s collective mind. You can’t start from scratch when the public already has a firm image of what you are already. Some people already love the brand and will favor it above the rest, others already hate the brand and won’t give it a chance, but an established name means a lot – and cannot be abandoned and treated as if it is new.

              For another thing, Cadillac’s past is GREAT. Cadillac was America’s luxury sales leader from the 1950’s through 1998, at which point Lincoln held that crown for 1 year, then Lexus held it for about 10 years. Cadillac has always been the most special of American car brands. And that is often reflected in popular culture. Think of how many songs refer to Cadillac in some way or other. (For a few examples from artists I actually listen to, there’s Bruce Springsteen’s “Cadillac Ranch”, Tom Petty’s “The Same Old You”, Paul McCartney’s “Spirits of Ancient Egypt”, but there are so many more).

              And you think they should throw that all away? For what? So that they too can try to copy BMW, the way Hyundai is trying to copy various brands (but at a cheaper price)? No thanks. Cadillac has always been big proud smooth powerful American luxury. If GM wants to build cars that imitate someone else, or try to deliver NASCAR-like “performance”, then they should do it with a different brand.

              Trashing Cadillac’s history and acting like it is a brand new brand makes no sense at all. And the proof is in the pitiful sales of cars like the ATS. The ATS is Cadillac trying to be something that it’s not, and I don’t mean the styling (which I actually like). The ATS does not appeal to traditional Cadillac buyers, because it is very cramped and has a harsh, hard ride. And it doesn’t appeal to BMW buyers, because they “know” that Cadillac is not BMW. The ATS is like the Cimarron and the Catera, two other flops from when Cadillac tried to imitate BMW. Cadillac needs to be Cadillac, not an imitator or a brand pretending to start from scratch.

              Reply
              1. Drew what happened in the past means much if you have done something relevant in the last 60 years,

                If you would duly note most songs that are well known are songs from the era where Cadillac mattered or about things that are not about what Cadillac has become.

                In other words we so not hear Tom Petty singing about the Northstar engines. We do not have a song about the STS or DTS.

                The boss sang a song about a guy who buried Cadillac, McCartney sang a song that no one recalls. The best positive song may have been from Chuck Berry. Today it is mostly Country songs about a Cadillac Hearse because someone died in the song.

                Today many of the people in the new car markets were not born yet when they were still had a relevant history. To them you may as well be talking about the Civil War as it means little to them today. Many today had parents and grand parents who drove a BMW not a Cadillac.

                The problems is I do not think they should throw it away but for the fact they squandered the equity of their past and that is as hard to draw connections to as it is to gain a new foot hold in the segment where it is at.

                It is not just Cadillac. The Maybach was a great car but when they tried to bring it back it failed as few remember who and what they did. It mattered little to most. Now it is just a model of car Benz makes.

                As for being in the market today the Cadillac is not copying anyone. The segment is now viewed and expected to have cars that are comfortable and can turn left and tight with authority. Sure you could do a modern version of a 59 Cadillac but it would fail as that is not where the market is now. Do not confuse Cadillac as copying the Germans as much as the Germans just are where the market is at and where all makers are trying to be. It is a competitive segment and it is not just a German segment. The Germans just got their first. The market and the worlds likes and values have changed and Cadillac need to be where the segments that are treasured are. The world no longer chases Cadillac and they need to change that by being relevant in quality style and performance.

                The 60’s and 70’s were years of decline the 80’s were totally crash and burn. The 90’s were a string of hope and failure. The last 16 years have been more hope and some progress but just poorly executed with lack of funds and too many leaders with too many changes in direction.

                With Cadillac and today’s customer it is mostly about when have you last built a car worth writing a song about? That is the past in the consumers mind and it means nothing. Even going back to the V16 cars and the Better cars in the 50’s and back only those who know their automotive history have any real remembrance of these models.

                I have a poster of the Worlds Fair V16 up in my home and people see it and wonder what kind of car it is.

                Nothing today is given and you have to re earn your place. You have to do it with what is relevant to the customer today. BMW and Benz are just making the cars people want and if that is what they want or see value in that is where the entire market is.

                The New Conti though a nice car will most likey under perform as it will never sell at a higher price well and may find a lot of fleet sales.

                The way forward for Cadillac is this.

                #1 Make compelling styled cars that when you see it you want it no matter the tag on the back.

                #2 Cars that perform in all areas of stop, go, turn and ride.

                #3 Offer world class drive trains that are not shared with a pick up truck.

                #4 Offer platforms that originated as a Cadillac and not a Chevy first in development.

                #5 Find a combination of above and use it as a foundation to build each and every model after.

                #6 Make cars that are relevant to a global market as this is where the money is today.

                #7 Do all the above and do it with an American flair.

                The real Cadillac has been gone so long that most of the real traditional owners who matter are dead. So much time has past they are really starting all over just as Lincoln.

                If Cadillac had been a stand alone brand they would be much like Packard long gone and often forgotten. Fleet sales kept Cadillac and Lincoln alive but at a price of poor models and the damage and loss of their legacy.

                We here on these web forums know our automotive history. Most people out there in the cold world don’t know or care. Hell BMW VW and Benz was the brands of Hitler but yet people buy as they don’t care of the past. Imagine if Osama had his own brand of cars that supported him. They would not sell because it happened in the customers life time.

                Some things need to be treasured in the past and it should not be forgotten. But you can not continue to live and thrive in the past anymore. Large fins and V16 engines are works of art but not relevant to today’s market and customer that needs to be won over.

                Cadillac has gone in the right direction but they have failed to execute. They have slowly evolved the styling to find their own. They have offered performance but borrowed it from a cheaper car. They have changed direction and never got the quality of the car to where it needed to be. They have gotten more right than wrong but now they need to focus on what is wrong yet and fix it.

                Also they need to apply to their models and brand what matters to today’s customer. Just because they used to is not going to sell cars today.

                I feel they can do it with the right moves. Where they are at now tells me they are heading that direction but it will take a couple years to see if they have made the right decisions as we do not know all they are doing yet.

                Reply
                1. Scott3, here’s something for you regarding Cadillac’s reputation as a brand. When a product is considered top of the line, among all brands, it is often called “The Cadillac of (product category)”. Such as “The Cadillac of fountain pens” or “The Cadillac of smart phones”. And you think they should just pretend they are a new brand, starting from scratch?

                  As to the songs, I merely chose a few from artists that I happen to like. There are many more songs that refer to Cadillac. How many songs refer to BMW or any other car brand? (Ok, maybe “American Pie” – drove my Chevy to the levee). The Springsteen song is more than just a buried Cadillac, has the verses:

                  Eldorado’s fins, whitewalls and skirts
                  Drives just like a little bit of heaven here on earth
                  When I die buddy throw my body in the back
                  And take me to the junkyard in my Cadillac

                  Cadillac, Cadillac
                  Long and dark, shiny and black
                  Open up them engines let `em roar
                  Tearing up the highway like a big old dinosaur

                  Now I could be mistaken, but I don’t think you have to be over 50 to be familiar with music/songs from Springsteen, Petty, or The Beatles (and by extension, McCartney). By the way, McCartney’s “Wings” gets derided by some people, but “Wings over America” remains one of the best, and most widely known of any commercial live album release (and contains the song mentioning Cadillac).

                  But even if the market of familiar song knowledge cuts off at 50, even if no one listens to “Dad’s” albums or “classic rock”, that’s still a large segment of well-financed people. However, I doubt that is true. I did a search for “Cadillac in songs” and among the results is “the five best rap songs inspired by Cadillac” and “10 seriously dope Cadillac-inspired hip-hop songs”. Not my type of music, but it doesn’t look like they stopped making Cadillac-referencing songs after the 1980’s.

                  Now you do have a good point regarding Hitler’s association with VW. Although VW does not sell particularly well in the US now, the “VW bug” sold very well in the 1960’s and early 70’s, despite having a fairly direct connection to Hitler. Likewise, Japanese WWII atrocities were mostly forgotten or forgiven as far as Japanese car sales in the US market, by the 1970’s onward. Maybe that shows that people, at least Americans, forget the bad stuff quickly but remember the positives longer. At least if they have a song they can listen to even today, referencing what Cadillac means to a lot of people.

                  As I have mentioned before, when I looked at a BMW website and saw a new BMW owner commenting on how his car had a much harder ride than he expected, some of the commenters said that if he wanted a comfortable riding car he should get a Cadillac. No one challenged him on that to say “No, the classic ‘Cadillac ride’ is now gone, and now Cadillac tries to make cars that ride as harshly as BMW, in order to imitate us”. So in the minds of the public, including current BMW owners, Cadillac represents a certain category, for better or worse. You CAN’T pretend this is a brand new brand, nor should you, given the rich and positive history.

                  Back to the CT6, I noticed that a recent JD Power review (PowerSteering) thought the car in “sport mode” was so “brittle” that it was practically undrivable, and that even the “normal” mode was way too stiff. Conclusion is excerpted below:

                  “Finally, when kept in its Normal driving mode, and when driven within its limits, the CT6 is fun to drive. Sport mode is too harsh, though, and the car could really use a Comfort mode that provides a more traditional luxury car driving and riding experience”

                  Reply
                  1. It used to be a real duesey
                    years ago and how is working today.

                    To return to be the Cadillac of Cadillac needs to once again set the standard others are measured by. That does not mean they have to relive the past.

                    Reply
                    1. Scott3, the “it’s a doozy” connection with Duesenberg is suggested but unproven. With “The Cadillac of X” it is well-known that the comparison is to Cadillac autos. Really a bad idea to walk away from that history and pretend Cadillac is a brand new brand, just starting from scratch now.

                      Of course Cadillac doesn’t need to re-introduce an exact replica of the 1967 Eldorado. But there’s no reason that they can’t have the same overall goals as before – big, roomy, comfortable riding, high-tech, well-powered, with proud/brash angular American styling.

                      What if Lexus decided they wanted to drop their history, remake the company in order to compete head-to-head with Ferrari. They’d still keep the Lexus name, but now it would be synonymous with a Ferrari imitator. That would simply confuse their customers (and potential customers), while not pursuing a market that is necessarily large enough to be profitable with yet another entrant.

                      Some people want a Lexus-type car, others want a Ferrari-type car. There are markets for both types, but switching an established brand from one to another does not make sense. You can’t pretend that a well-established brand with a hugely successful, over 100 year history is in its first year of production. Nor would you want to. The more Cadillac tries to remake itself in BMW’s image, the more sales they will lose. It didn’t have to be that way. Too bad there are so few Americans in the top jobs at Cadillac today, who understand and appreciate what Cadillac means.

                      Reply
                  2. Sorry got called away.

                    As for “the Cadillac of” The problem is Cadillac is no longer the Cadillac of anything. Not saying they are a bad car but they are still not what they need to be.

                    As for Songs that is nostalgia nothing more.

                    Now fast forward to today. The segment has a whole different expectation than it did when Cadillac was the Cadillac of anything. reliving the 50’s no longer applies.

                    What Cadillac simply needs to do is benchmark the segment and surpass the other brands with Compelling styling, Leading Technology, Highest quality materials for the segment, performance that is better in all aspects not just some. Yes this means selling several variations of each model.

                    The goal here is to be the standard you must set the standard. Even then you will need time for it to be accepted and understood. This is an image class where the car reflects upon the owner and how it reflects is very important. At one time if you drove a Cadillac or Lincoln it showed you had made it to the top. Today it means you could not afford the BMW. That needs to change. There are no compromises in this segment if you want to lead.

                    Now I do have a piece of retro advertising that with some grammar changes would be very appropriate for Cadillac today. Please read this if you have not seen it before. If you have take the time to apply it to the terms of today. This was a response to Packard and today you could change it to fit what brand you would like to challenge.

                    To me Cadillac has not gotten to the point they are the leader but that should be their goal and again Set the Standard. No song or phrase can do this only the best in class products with no compromise can do this.

                    Read Penalty Of Leadership

                    http://mascola.com/insights/retro-ad-of-the-week-cadillac-1915-the-penalty-of-leadership/

                    Reply
                    1. Acutely I want everyone to read this ad from Cadillac. Here is the text in full. Please apply it in todays terms as the grammar is from 101 years ago.

                      In every field of human endeavour, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone – if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big world had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy – but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions – envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains – the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live – lives. “

                      My prayer is JDN has this on his office wall and he reads it everyday. In fact each Cadillac employee should have a copy and read this everyday.

                      Reply
                    2. And for those who remember when Cadillac reflected back positively on its proud and brash first 100+ years of history, find the 2007 commercial “Roll” in its one minute version (including song “Punkrocker” by the Teddy Bears, lead vocal provided by Michigan’s own Iggy Pop). It’s on youtube and possibly elsewhere.

                      How could anyone be aware of Cadillac history and then think Cadillac should just pretend to be a start-up brand right now? This mindset completely baffles me.

                      Reply
                    3. Ironically, while the “Roll” commercial highlighted Cadillac’s rich history, the car featured at the end was the XLR (introduced in 2003, for the 2004 model year), which may have been the defining point of Cadillac’s break with it’s own history.

                      The XLR was a two-seat convertible (a la Mercedes), an attempt at Cadillac having a “sporty” ride (it was based on the Corvette Stingray), and I believe it was the first Cadillac in over 40 years to lack a real name, choosing letters instead – just like the Germans. So perhaps the creator of that commercial appreciated Cadillac’s own history more than those managing Cadillac at that time.

                      The ambitiously priced (think about that JdN, high prices don’t always mean more prestige for your brand) $110k XLR became Cadillac’s “flagship” and had very disappointing sales. Still a great commercial, and fine looking car from the outside, with the top down (top up it looks a bit weird to me, roofline too small).

                      Reply
                    4. Drew I think after reading these last two post that you mistake that Cadillac’s failure is because

                      They removed the names and if they had names that would fix the problems.

                      They are leaving what they did in the past even if it is not relevant today

                      That their history will save them.

                      That people would somehow associate things like the V16 and cars like a 1957 Biarrtz would cure what ills them.

                      The formula for winning here is as follow.

                      Compelling design and styling that draws your attention for the right reasons

                      Advanced tech

                      World class materials

                      World class quality

                      A verity of products that would appeal globally

                      ergonomics that are better than anyone else.

                      Identify the market and target the products to what the customers want all customer not past Cadillac owners and not just a chosen few. Offer products that will attract global buyers of all types. It can be done and is being done. Stop worrying what someone else is doing and just target the people and make them what they want.

                      Price and control volume to where not everyone can have one but where everyone wants one you will increase ATP and keep resale values high making the car a good value even when it is expensive and less a risk to buy.

                      Theses things over time will create a positive image and one that draws people in.

                      First mistake is no one buys a car just for the name. If you build it right to start with a name is just added value if it has positive equity but if it has neutral and little equity then it adds little. The bottom line is success of a car is not contingent on a name. If you want to say content, quality or styling then I would agree.

                      Cadillac really made a mistake twice on 2 seat convertibles. One they had major issues with the core product. They needed to fix their core cars before they worry about the fringe products.

                      Second the first one was FWD and expensive. The second one was nice but a Corvette was just a better deal. Why pay $100K for a car that would lose more resale and really was not worth that kind of money.

                      They also need to get their marketing on message. With each administration the marketing has changed as much as the car that was going to be the flagship. Firs it was the XTS and then the CT6 and now CT8?

                      There has been no solid message in marketing. As of now it is difficult to market what they have as the narrative will change as the new product arrives. To make a major push on the present CTS and ATS then change the narrative once their replacements arrive in 18-24 months would only confuse things and make the message even more mottled.

                      None of this is going to be cheap. None of this is going to be easy or hit the mark on the first try every time. It is not going to be fast as it takes time to do so many programs at once with limited man power. They are now trying to do this in house. In the past they used engineers that on Monday were working on a Chevy and by Friday they were working on a Cadillac. Now they are trying to do all the cars with a designated Cadillac staff and not bring in outsiders unless they have to.

                      Do not get me wrong we should always remember the past as I am a great fan of automotive history. If anything learn from it so mistakes are not made again. But do not expect the past to bail your butt out of years of poor product and in a market that is much more competitive than it has been for decades.

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                    5. Scott3, please – DO NOT attribute things to me that I never wrote, simply so that you can “win” the discussion. When I have quoted you, I used your exact words. I never said Cadillac should go back to V16 engines or sell replicas of 1957 Caddys instead of making new cars, or whatever you were implying there – I never came close to writing any of that. And I never said that changing from real names to letters and numbers has caused the demise of Cadillac.

                      Regarding the car names, I meant was that the change from names that had been a mainstay of Cadillacs for over 40 years (until the 2004 model year with XLR, STS, SRX – and now the only real name left is Escalade, which will probably be something like XT8 in the near future) was symptomatic of Cadillac becoming an imitator rather than the proud American leader it had once been. BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, Audi, Volvo, etc. generally used 2-4 character letters and/or numbers, so the imitative management that was in charge in the early 2000’s decided to copy them, along with numerous other ways of copying others. Again, it’s not as if the decline in Cadillac sales is due to the change in naming conventions, but this is symptomatic of Cadillac no longer being a leader, now a deliberate follower. It’s symptomatic of Cadillac’s management being ashamed of its own history, rather than embracing it – something you apparently applaud (i.e. pretending they have no history).

                      What I DID say, on this thread – and I directly quote it here – was that traditionally Cadillac is defined by the words “Big, Comfortable, Roomy, Quiet, Powerful, Elegant, Luxurious, Angular American Styling, Advanced Technology.” And I feel Cadillac should get back to those goals, rather than dumping its brand history, trying to start over as a German-wannabe, hard-riding “pseudo sports car”. I feel that Cadillac’s recent failures such as the weak-selling ATS and CTS are due to trying to be too much a German/BMW type of company. Cramped and hard-riding cars and not “Cadillacs” IMO. Absolutely the “Cadillac ride” should be the Cadillac ride, that should be a given, you don’t throw away the best ride in the business just because someone auto write wants to see a faster test time on the Nürburgring (even though he still will never buy a Cadillac himself).

                      To directly quote you, you wrote: “The main thing to remember here Cadillac is like a new company coming to market. Most people today could care less of what they were and what they built since it was so long since they have made a world class leading car. Starting over is not easy and getting up to date takes time. ”

                      That’s just wrong, IMO. Apparently you don’t care for what Cadillac used to stand for, that’s your opinion. A lot of people feel otherwise. But throwing away decades of positive history is not a smart business plan. And DO NOT SAY that I want Cadillac to start making replicas of cars from 40 years ago; that’s a straw man argument that I feel you are smart enough to know is not true, so stop mischaracterizing my views simply so that you might appear to be the “winner”.

                      My point should be very clear to anyone reading this thread, my direct comments, not your caricature of my words and views. As I wrote, it would be silly for Lexus to suddenly drop their approach to carmaking and suddenly become a Ferrari imitator. It would be equally silly for Ferarri to drop what it is doing and suddenly become a Lexus imitator. Cadillac is Cadillac, doesn’t matter if you hate their history, you seem to know very little about branding and market segmentation, thinking it would be wise for them to start from scratch and pretend they are in Year 1 of a new brand.

                      Why can’t you simply accept that we have different visions of where Cadillac should go, rather than mischaracterizing the views of others so that you can appear to be the only reasonable one here? There are many types of cars, for many types of drivers. You seem to think that each brand should cater to what you personally want in a car, especially Cadillac. Sorry but that is not working.

                      At this rate (I.e. if Cadillac and de Nysschen continue to imitate BMW), within 10 years Lincoln sales will far surpass that of Cadillac. And that’s just sad, especially considering Cadillac’s rich history and Lincoln’s mostly imitative one, and considering that at least Cadillac’s exterior styling has remained true to it’s heritage, while Lincoln’s has continued to be derivative of others.

                      But Lincoln appears to be happy to take Cadillac’s former approach of being Big, Comfortable, Roomy, Quiet, Powerful, Elegant, Luxurious, Advanced Technology – and not being concerned with NASCAR-like qualities of harsh-riding “great handling”, or insisting on RWD at the expense of traction in snow. If Lincoln can further expand their line-up and can bring some original angular “art and science” styling (perhaps hiring away some of Cadillac’s former designers), then they eventually should become what Cadillac was for many decades (until 1999, when Lincoln briefly took the crown, only to hand it to Lexus the next year) – the leader in luxury cars for the US market.

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                    6. Drew I can only interpreted what you say, sorry if I took it wrong.

                      This is not about winning but explaining what I feel is needed.

                      Again you mistake that Cadillac is trying to be BMW or Benz. It is not that they are trying to be them but just be in the segment. Lexus infinity Hyundai and others are here too. This is the true luxury segment today.

                      The truth is Lexus has been the one to copy even trying to look like Benz.

                      As for Lincoln they know they can not compete with the others as Ford will not fund them to do better. They are now will just try to get by with a modified Ford and end with many rebates and fleet sales. Not a real image builder.

                      There are some in Ford that would do it right but they are not in power. They did save the brand.

                      As for tradition it means little anymore. Long, big etc is how they got left behind. If that is what the market is then why is only Lincoln the only one there and the dying 300?

                      If you have been in the CTS non v you know you will not lose a filling. Is it a floaty boat of old no because cars like that no longer sell unless they have some form of active suspension.

                      As for the XLR. Great commercial are fine but great cars make money. The greatest commercial and past heritage can not save a Line cars that are not good enough.

                      It is the product you get it right the rest falls into place. The Penalty of Leadership points this out. At the time it was written they only had 8 years of history and it meant nothing. But building th,e best car possible ment everything.

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                    7. Scott3, you are clearly in denial regarding Cadillac’s aims to be a German imitator, rather than a leading American luxury brand. You wrote:

                      “Again you mistake that Cadillac is trying to be BMW or Benz. It is not that they are trying to be them but just be in the segment. Lexus infinity Hyundai and others are here too. This is the true luxury segment today.”

                      Actually Lexus makes roomy cars with comfortable rides, that don’t attempt to match the Germans and fast maneuvers. Lexus ride is not as smooth and comfortable and roomy as traditional Cadillac ride, but it’s much closer to that then current Cadillac models ATS, CTS, CT6, and possibly even XTS. I’m not sure about Hyundai, they are not a luxury brand, although a friend told me the he liked the roominess and comfortable ride of the Genesis. I was somewhat interested until I saw a Genesis spinning it’s wheels in the snow – sure enough its a RWD car, no thanks. But it didn’t sound like an imitator of the “sport riding” German cars.

                      From Reuters via Business Insider, Feb 10, 2015, “GM is having trouble getting luxury buyers to look at Cadillac”, they point out that the Escalade is in high demand, while the ATS and CTS require huge discounts to move. Excerpted below:

                      “DETROIT (Reuters) – General Motors Co Chief Executive Mary Barra’s strategy of rebuilding the Cadillac brand has run into twin roadblocks: the carmaker can’t persuade enough American sedan buyers to switch from foreign competitors such as BMW or Mercedes, and it can’t make enough of its Escalade SUVs to satisfy domestic demand.”

                      “Even though chrome-bedecked Escalades retailing for more than $100,000 each are rolling every day out of an Arlington, Texas, factory that’s been working weekend overtime for months, Cadillac still can’t keep more than a few weeks’ worth of the big SUVs in stock. By contrast, its dealers are offering discounts of thousands of dollars on the ATS sedan, intended to compete with the BMW 3 series, and on the CTS sedan, meant to rival the Mercedes E-class.”

                      Did you catch that last line, Scott3? Yep keep denying that Cadillac is trying to be BMW and/or Mercedes-Benz. The article continues:

                      “At Brotherton Cadillac Buick GMC in the Seattle suburb of Renton, Washington, owner Brad Brotherton is offering 2014 ATS sedans at up to $12,000 off a sticker price that starts at about $33,215. In St. Peters, Missouri, near St. Louis, Bommarito Cadillac was cutting as much as $17,500 off the price of a 2014 CTS sedan, which starts at about $45,345.”

                      Wow, those are MASSIVE discounts! What happened to profits? I thought the purpose of a car company was to make money for shareholders, not to impress auto writers with how much they can imitate German cars.

                      Also from the article:
                      “The failure of the ATS and CTS to hit their targets is costing GM. To kindle demand, Cadillac has offered subsidized leases, discounted financing and rebates. Consumers are being given $1,000 on the 2015 ATS and 2015 CTS, $4,000 on the 2014 ATS and $6,000 on the 2014 CTS. But some dealers are getting additional subsidies from Cadillac — up to $5,000 more on the 2014 ATS and up to $7,000 more on the 2014 CTS — to help clear out unsold cars.”

                      “Meanwhile, the Escalade is hauling in the cash, as year-on-year sales in January rose 149 percent, according to Cadillac spokesman David Caldwell. GM’s truck factory outside Dallas, which builds the Escalade and long-wheelbase Escalade ESV and their Chevrolet and GMC siblings, has been running steadily on three shifts and working weekend overtime for months to try to keep up with unrelenting demand. ‘If we could run that plant eight or nine days a week, we probably would,’ said a GM insider familiar with the production schedule.”

                      Ok, so the Escalade, following the more traditional Cadillac formula of being big, roomy, and offering a comfortable ride, rather than “performance”, is selling so well they can’t keep it in stock. But they have to offer massive rebates on the German-imitating ATS and CTS.

                      Continuing:
                      “Cadillac marketing boss Uwe Ellinghaus, a former BMW executive, calls the Escalade “almost a brand in itself,” but adds that the big SUV “does not set the direction” for Cadillac’s long-range strategy.”

                      And there you have it! Uwe Ellinghaus, former Bimmer-boy, doesn’t seem to care about the success of the Escalade vs. the failure of the German imitating ATS and CTS. By golly HE KNOWS BETTER! He’s going to make sure Cadillac’s long term strategy is to imitate the Germans, even if it kills Cadillac. And it pretty much will, IMO.

                      Now if you still aren’t satisfied that current Cadillac management is imitating THE GERMANS, then there’s this tidbit reported by Automotive News this past June, under the title “Fixing Cadillac’s problem child”:

                      “The ATS was supposed to herald Cadillac’s return to luxury relevance when it went on sale nearly four years ago.

                      The compact sedan was going to be the Cadillac to “finally challenge the German cars at their own game and win,” then-GM North America President and current product chief Mark Reuss said at the car’s January 2012 unveiling. Instead, it has become Cadillac’s problem child. Even in a cold sedan market, the ATS has lagged behind compact luxury rivals — its market share has declined every year since 2013. ”

                      Get that? “Finally challenge the Germans at their own game and win”, said Reuss. NOT. That’s not being “in the luxury space”, that’s being in the GERMAN luxury space, while ignoring the American luxury space – despite Escalade doing so well when positioned for American luxury, not German luxury.

                      As to Lincoln, true they are not getting much funding from Ford – so what, they will still blow past Cadillac strongly in sales and profits within 10 years, as long as Cadillac continues on this idiotic path to “challenge the Germans” and destroy anything FWD and/or resembling the old Cadillac ride (because those products “hurt the brand” even if they sell really well and make a lot of profit, according to the bozos). Lincoln will do it using Ford platforms and some Ford parts, but that won’t matter because they will OWN the American luxury space that Cadillac is abandoning. Watch and see.

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                    8. Drew you are just not understanding what I see,

                      The Germans are the segment today. The Segment left what Cadillac and Lincoln was and has transformed into a new deal.

                      The deal is no matter the MFG they are building cars to what the segment is. The Germans just got there first and are the leaders in it.

                      It matters little where the MFG is from anymore as this is what the segment has become and what the consumers globally look for in this market.

                      What you tend to forget is Cadillac was Cadillac in the 70’s-80’s and 90’s where they were comfort and luxury only as they had been for decades and the segment left them and they fell so far behind they lost complete touch with the segment.

                      Also you tend to thing all German cars and cars in this class are stiff riding and do not offer luxury and comforts. Well not ever BMW is a M car nor every Benz a AMG. They do offer some of the best riding and comfortable cars on the market. Magazines ignore them as they tend do not be what enthusiast buy magazines for but they are the largest selling models they offer in the states.

                      Globally these two brands sell more base and plain models as they do a lot fleet sales. They also have many buyers who buy low end as just daily drivers. We never see many of these models here. The American German cars are not what everyone see’s or gets. They generally see much wider variety of models as neither company has a Chevy or Buick to do the heavy lifting for volume.

                      You see Cadillac copying the Germans I get it.

                      I am not in denial as I see them targeting the Luxury segment as it is today and not how it was. Look around times have changed.

                      The Caprice is no longer the largest sellers. The Coupe is dying and sedans are struggling. Crossovers are gaining a ton of ground and are dominate. The majority of cars are not V8 but 4 cylinders.

                      What you want to see is the continued path of failure Cadillac has traveled. I do not want to see them repeat it.

                      Finally GM and Cadillac does not have to out sell Benz or BMW. The key in this segment is profits. You sell these models and it is like printing money.

                      It is like a two car race team. The first car cost much to build and develop but the second one is much cheaper. Same here with Luxury brands in a way as they are not much more to design and build than a volume entry level car.

                      The added content for the most is the main additional cost. But when you sell the car for 2-3 times more there is so much more meat on the bone. That is why every MFG is working to get into this segment.

                      GM’s future is not dependent on Cadillac as they will live no matter what happens at Cadillac. But the future of GM could be much more financially enhanced with a profitable Cadillac. It is a no brainer to try to make them viable again.

                      This is what saved Lincoln as some at Ford pointed out just making a Premium Ford model was not enough and more money could be found in the Lincoln. Honda the same with Acura. Now with the lower end less is to be made and more volume needs to be found to make it worth the effort. Higher end lower volumes work better and many see it as less risk.

                      When looking at this segment you need to look at it from the business side.

                      The Segment we are talking about here is only surpassed by the truck segment for profits per vehicle. With Truck sales possibly in trouble in the future with higher and higher MPG companies are looking to smaller Crossovers and the Luxury segment to help offset the profits they might lose.

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                    9. Scott3, I don’t agree at all that the luxury segment is “German luxury” alone today, meaning cramped, “feel the road”, and hard-riding (but supposedly “great handling” if you drive like a maniac) “sporty” cars. That is ONE PART of the luxury segment, but not the entire thing. I know you think there is only one luxury segment, but there are several. There’s the German luxury segment such as BMW, there’s the Porsche/Ferrari segment, there’s the very high end Bentley/Rolls Royce/Maybach segment.

                      And there’s the American luxury segment, which includes most of Lexus models (despite being a Japanese company), Lincoln, and various models such as Hyundai Genesis or Chrysler 300. That’s the space that puts a premium on roominess and comfort, and favors isolation from the road rather than the “feel the road” fetish of the German luxury cars. Cadillac was in that space, but clearly seems determined to abandon it. The XTS supposedly fits that space now, but it’s more of a hybrid of American luxury and German luxury. Same for the XT5. The Escalade is more of a true American luxury car (although an SUV), but it’s clear that current Cadillac management thinks that they should go in another direction, and seem embarrassed by the massive sales and profits of the Escalade.

                      The DTS was the last Cadillac sedan that was truly in the American luxury space. It sold extremely well for several years (over 50k/year sales for a couple of years), but needed a refresh at the end of its life. Instead they just killed it outright, on the theory that somehow its mere presence “hurt the brand” despite being very profitable. It just wasn’t where Cadillac wanted to go with the brand, which is to GERMAN LUXURY, not American luxury.

                      Only to the professional auto writers, and you apparently, is there only one luxury space, i.e. the German one. That’s not true though of actual American car buyers. Pro auto writers are like the mainstream news media, very biased in one direction, out of step with actual Americans. Pro auto writers pretty much to a person ONLY want hard-riding, tight turning, “feel the road” Euro-sport models that they consider “fun” and “engaging” as if these are toys rather than a mode of transportation. Yet 80% of Americans just want to go from point A to point B in comfort, style, reliability, and they will get their enjoyment in life from doing things other than having a car that they can pretend is NASCAR-worthy, making immature and dangerous maneuvers on their way to nowhere in particular. So if your source of public interest is largely from auto writers, realize that just as the mainstream news media has very strong biases that are out of step with the rest of America, so too is the pro auto press. The people that become auto writers are NOT typical consumers, they live for jackrabbit starts and tight turns (which is why they become auto writers, so that they can “push” a lot of cars to the limits, like little boys with their Hot Wheels), but that’s not normal.

                      Today, there are obviously “status symbol” seekers that don’t really care about German luxury or American luxury, they just want to show off. If the auto writers tell them that German cars are what they should buy, then they mindlessly buy them – they accept the cramped hard ride, knowing that the real payoff is when their neighbors see that they have that highly praised luxury car, and they can “stick it” to those folks by showing they’ve got a lot of money to blow.

                      Cadillac could counter that by marketing their cars as genuine American luxury and point out the benefits of a nice well-cushioned ride, the auto writers be damned. But instead they hire foreign guys who want Cadillac to throw in the towel on American luxury rather than promoting it, they want to throw out the history like you do, and start from Day 1 as if it is a new brand. I’ll just never agree with that, and it appears that the market agrees with me – Cadillac going after the German luxury space is not working, yet they are ignoring the few remaining American luxury models that still are making a lot of money for them. I guess Johan and Uwe and that Australian guy Smith would rather make German-like cars they think are “cool” and which appeal to auto writers, than making American cars that they could sell in great numbers, very profitably, by embracing their history rather than pretending it doesn’t exist.

                      As far as Lincoln, they have gotten it right in SUVs and seem to be taking things in the right direction with sedans. They still are in “Cadillac wannabe” phase but with Cadillac abandoning the Cadillac space, they should do very well. The MKZ sedan is a nice car with some nice touches, but it still is not Cadillac-worthy (traditional Cadillac that is, not BMW-wannabe Cadillac). MKZ among other things is too cramped for American luxury. The new Continental shows promise, despite a lack of originality in styling.

                      Ford is not stupid. I recall when GM abandoned US production of the Caprice, which had been by far the top choice for police departments and taxis. Ford had planned to end the Crown VIctoria, but they kept it going for longer than planned, because GM was ending the Caprice, and Ford knew they could grab those sales. Sure enough, as Cadillac seems determined to exit the American luxury space, I bet Lincoln will double down on American luxury. The American luxury space is not dead (as Lexus and others can tell you), despite the current fad of German luxury. When the “hard-riding sporty sedan” aka German luxury fad ends, which is likely to be soon (especially as baby boomers age), Lincoln will be very well positioned while Cadillac will bemoan leaving the space it once owned. But even today that space is much bigger than you realize, and could be expanded if only Cadillac would be bold and proud, rather than seemingly ashamed of its history and wanting to “start from scratch” as a German luxury wannabe.

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                    10. Scott3 wrote:
                      “What you want to see is the continued path of failure Cadillac has traveled. I do not want to see them repeat it.”

                      No, you still don’t get it. I want to see Cadillac target what made them successful, not what took them out of the leadership of American luxury cars. Do you think the ATS is on the path to success? It never sold well, sales have dropped every year since it was introduced. It was highly regarded by “car enthusiast” auto writers, but the American public does not like its Cadillac’s to have a cramped hard ride, if they want that they’ll buy a German car. I think the ATS looks great from the outside, It just doesn’t have the room and comfort that a Cadillac should have. It’s a failure.

                      When you talk about Cadillac failure, you assume it’s because they have failed to offer cars with German-like driving dynamics. The reality is that Cadillac’s setbacks have been caused by other things, including auto-writers who try to force their personal preferences on the public by calling Cadillacs “floaty boats”. That’s great trash-talking, but not reality. A nice ride is a nice ride, it’s not boaty. Now the younger writers and readers who have never even been in a nice riding American car call them “floaty boats” (or “boring” to drive), because they want to sound like they are in-the-know, when they are actually just parroting others without actually knowing what they are talking about.

                      Cadillac was the US luxury leader decades, until 1999 when Lincoln took that crown. Then in 2000, Lexus took that spot, for 11 years. Only in the past 5 years has BMW surpassed Lexus, I would call that a fad which will end. Lexus sells nearly as many cars in the USA as BMW, and they don’t attempt to copy German driving dynamics (styling maybe, but not driving dynamics). So there’s no reason to believe that American-style luxury is dead, just because BMW has made a slight lead for all of 5 years.

                      What has set back Cadillac has been when they try to do small cars such as the Cimarron, or tried to do German cars such as the Catera. With the ATS, they tried to do both – a small German-like car. Sorry but there’s your failure, not the Escalade with its more traditional American luxury values. Another problem for Cadillac is when they try to do fuel efficiency, which is a bit ridiculous for people who are already paying a lot of money for the car itself. So the V8-6-4 engine was another setback, and attempt at Cadillac trying to do what they were never known for doing. Then there’s the reliability situation, but it’s not as if the Germans are any better at that. Cadillac should try to copy the Japanese on reliability, especially Lexus/Toyota. That’s what makes customers happy. Really every setback for Cadillac can be traced by to Cadillac not being Cadillac.

                      JdN is trying to sell this load that it will take 10-15 years to re-establish the brand as a top tier one. Gee that’s great, he can get himself a dozen years or so of high pay, before GM realizes that his plan to imitate BMW has failed. All the way there he can just keep saying “it will take more years, just wait” while cars like ATS, CTS, CT6 – all keep failing in the market place.

                      Let’s face it, the German-like luxury market is already well-supplied. Cadillac is known for something else. There’s a market for Cadillac being Cadillac, not a market for Cadillac being CMW (Cadillac Motoren Werke). You want to repeat the road to failure? Keep making Cadillacs with the driving dynamics of the ATS. Just wait 10-15 years to make sure the brand is fully ruined, on JdN’s timeline. What a plan!

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                2. Good re ad. Hope Johan read this and act upon it.

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    2. How about this for an idea? Make the next CTS the Size of the CT6 and the next ATS the CTS size and go up from there. Name the CT4 and CT5 or whatever. What ever they do they need to pay more attention to detail and be better not just as good as the competition. They have to remember they are trying to rebuild a reputation that has been soiled fo over 30 years. That’s a hard thing to overcome so you can’t giv it a half a**’attempt.

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      1. VCA. great idea about resizing the future Cadillac models upward. Cadillac should never have tried to get into the small car business, and when they have tried (Cimarron, ATS, etc.), the cars don’t sell well and they hurt the brand image.

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  4. I hate to beat a dead horse but this is all the more reason why Cadillacs upcoming flagship needs to be a sedan and not a crossover or SUV. I don’t need to hear Rye telling us no one is buying sedans bla bla bla. In the luxury world you absouluty need a full size flagship saloon. If Cadillacs flagship dose end up being one of those however, put a fork in them they are done.

    MB and BmW do it with no issues and cadillac needs something like the Escala(minus the hatch) to call its flagship. To be honest Scott talks about the origins and past regimes that are responsible for this car, the truth be told back in 2012 Cadillac had 2 sedans planned- the flagship and a ultra flagship. But GM being GM deciced to axe the higher trim model and just go with one flagship. When JDN came aboard and the Board approved more funds is when the decison was made to bring back the ultra flagship.

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  5. Why does this car come with a 2.0T at all? That’s like the camaro coming with a base 1.5T engine from the malibu. It’s not the displacement that matters, rather the parts-sharing. Nobody wants to pay $60k for the same parts and paints that you can get on a chevy malibu. If it was a cadillac-exclusive 2.0, that would be a bit more palatable.

    As an aside, the volvo s90 is without a doubt far more elegant and luxurious than this car, inside and out. Nobody cares how it handles on a track.

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    1. The S90 you can get for $60k also comes with a turbo four-cylinder and the Cadillac 2.0T has more horsepower and torque than the Volvo.

      The Malibu’s 2.0T makes less power and torque than the CT6 2.0T.

      Also, the 2.0T CT6 starts at $53795, not $60k… you can get a V6 in the CT6 in the $63k range… and it’s the same 3.6 V6 GM puts in a ton of different cars. Only the top model’s 3.0TT is a Cadillac- exclusive engine at this point.

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  6. So, I’m a 55 Yr Old Male, my CT6 is the mid-level – Magnetic Ride Control, 3.6 L, all the luxury options except the Bose Panaray… It’s an excellent car with an excellent formula which is the same one that allowed the original CTS to succeed and start Cadillac’s return to the big kids table. The original CTS slotted between a 3 Series and was almost the size of a 5 Series but was priced like a 3 Series creating…wait for it…VALUE! The sticker on my car was just south of $70K and I would happily put it against a similarly priced 5 Series / E Class/ A6 any day. Additionally, I have to remind my passenger that there is no need to move the front seat up when someone joins us in the back…along with lots of luggage, etc.

    Is it perfect? Nope. Still need to upgrade some of the interior material choices, etc. but giving you more car for your money – when compared to the mid-sized Germans is a winning formula. I personally love the ride – leave it in Tour unless I’m on great roads having fun – and I get lots of looks and thumbs up from people of almost all ages who see the car.

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    1. No doubt it’s a nice car, and I would love to own one. But what are you feelings on paying $70k for a car that shares parts with a mid-level camaro? Is that not disingenuous? An $80k panamera shares no critical parts with a VW golf.

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      1. I have no problem with it..just like Audi drivers have no problem with parts from VW or Lexus owners with Toyota. And the 80K Panamera you reference I’m certain shares numerous parts from the VW bin… windshield wiper motors, power window lifts, and thousands of other parts that you don’t see or touch.

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        1. I 100% agree with you re parts sharing, but a powertrain is a pretty big deal relative to a wiper motor or power window. No car is advertised based on that stuff, whereas engines are front and center. Also, we’re just guessing that porsches share small parts with VWs. But we *know* that the CT6 shares its lower 2 engines and transmissions with the camaro. That’s a pretty big deal, in my opinion. BMW owners and fans often cite that as a reason to beat up on cadillac, because BMWs don’t share their engines with non-luxury cars. The mini’s engine is not shared with the base model 3 series. Base Audi’s share their 2.0 with the golf gti, but the CT6 is NOT a base cadillac. It’s the current flagship. The A7 or A8 don’t have the same engine as a golf. I think Cadillac’s image would improve if it just dropped the non-exclusive engines entirely. For example, they could just keep the 3.0 and 3.6 twin turbos for their sedans – those are cadillac-exclusive. It probably doesn’t cost GM much more to build these versus the 2.0T or the 3.6. Perhaps by ramping up production of the cadillac 3.0 and 3.6 turbos they could also achieve better economies of scale. So, possibly cheaper and more prestigious.

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          1. I agree, Cadillac should not offer any model with the 2.0T engine, whether it’s exclusive to Cadillac or shared with GM. Just not enough effortless “Cadillac power” for a car that size. All Cadillacs should be real Cadillacs, otherwise it hurts the brand image. The 2.0T engine is fine for some cars and no doubt helps fuel economy numbers, but is not right for the CT6.

            ALL Cadillacs, whether base or higher, should have a certainly level of luxury features. Which should include roominess, a comfortable ride, effortless power, a fine-sounding stereo, real leather seats (not leatherette/vinyl), etc. De-contented Cadillacs are not Cadillacs, downsized Cadillacs are not Cadillacs. If there is no minimum standard for ALL models, ALL trim levels, the brand itself means nothing.

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            1. Boom – exactly!

              I’m in the market for a sports sedan/coupe right now, and the ATS is out of the runnings early on. For example, why are the pretty HID headlights only available on the 3.6 RWD sedan? I’m in the market for the AWD sedan! This is an example of a bad sales strategy. However, if the base engine was that 3.0 v6, I’d get it in a flash and even be happy to pay a premium. Instead, I’m spending my time at audi and infiniti dealerships. Audi has the brand new audi-exclusive 2.0 engine and 7 speed twin clutch box, and Infiniti has that great new exclusive 3.0TT. The ATS is a dolled-up camaro. Heck, I’d get a camaro, but I can’t see out of the damn thing.

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              1. Great points Megatron. I love HID headlights, frankly every new Cadillac should have them standard – every model, every trim level. Let some of the cheap brands do the de-contenting thing at lower levels, a luxury leader should have certain minimums even at the lowest trim levels. What’s next, excluding air-conditioning from the lowest trim level? Putting hand-crank windows on the lowest level Cadillac? Insane that some Cadillacs are now offered with “leatherette” seats and engines that are not the “effortless power” normally associated with Cadillac.

                I realize that the DTS wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s still one of my favorite Cadillacs of all time. And consider that EVERY DTS had these minimums – a V8 Northstar engine, real leather seats (nicely shaped and padded), HID headlights (yep, even on the base model), power seats, and much more. Higher trims than the base were for things like sunroofs, power-adjusted steering wheel, somewhat better (Bose approved) stereo, auto-dimming mirror, navigation, and some minor exterior trim details. But moving up from the base did not get you a better engine (except arguably on the highest “sporty” trim, which was more different than “better”), did not get you better seats (except for a useless “massage” thing), did not get you better headlights.

                I don’t know what it costs the manufacturers to include HID headlights, but consider that it costs in terms of manufacturing to differentiate between the models, changing basic content for each one on the production line. Just bring up all Cadillacs to minimum luxury standards, and leave the de-contenting to other GM brands like Chevy. Though there’s something to be said for basic brands including plenty of content for every car, such as Honda which now puts automatic (dusk sensing) headlights on every car, and a rear view camera on every car – regardless of trim level.

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            2. I thought the same until I drove it… and bought it. The little 2.0T gets the job done and gets superb gas mileage, too. The CT6 is a surprisingly light car… 3600 lbs… (less than a CTS). The 2.0T hits 60 mph in 6.1 seconds, which is plenty respectable.

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  7. Any chance Cadillac will address these concerns and move to the head of the class where they belong.? For a while I had high hopes but lately that’s starting to fade.

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  8. Excellent review by KBB, great video. It’s nice to see that the reviewer doesn’t let his own preferences for a stiff body/NASCAR-like handling car keep him from seeing that the target market doesn’t want this, and would prefer a smoother, softer, more traditional “Cadillac ride”.

    Ironically, Cadillac seems to have made their cars “sportier” handling/riding in order to please the auto reviewers, but this one is actually doing his job by considering the actual market, not his personal preferences. He’s also right that luxury buyers paying the big bucks don’t want a buzzy sounding engine (as in the base model), and they certainly don’t want that glitchy pedestrian auto-braking that he mentions.

    I can’t help but think that the CT6 continues Cadillac’s problems of trying to imitate BMW, instead of being itself. Sure at least they are not creating a direct competitor to BMW in size, but they are still putting too much of a premium on “handling” instead of ride comfort, and it also appears they are making it too “gadgety”, like the German cars. And with all those gadgets comes poor reliability, just like the German cars. If only Cadillac would be Cadillac, instead of trying to be a German car, albeit with American styling (which is a good thing, this car looks very good from the outside).

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  9. why do all these new cars have a vertical front facial that reminds you of C-2500 pickup ?? is this for pedestrian safety in case you hit one so they don’t get thrown tru your windshield ???

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  10. Fair review.

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  11. Besides spending some time sitting in and poking at a CT6 at a Cadillac sponsored event this past summer, I don’t have a ton of experience with it. I’m hoping to take one out on the road soon, but I haven’t had (or made) the time to visit my local Cadillac dealer yet. From the time I spent with it, I found it to be mostly pleasing. One glaring issue that I noticed is that the back seat does not fold down. It only had a small armrest pass-thru. All other Cadillac models have a full fold down back seat, and I feel that it is something that is a basic must-have in a sedan of any size or price range.

    Beyond that, I echo the comments of many of the other postings in saying that Cadillac needs to find themselves as a brand, and do what Cadillac does best instead of trying to be the Germans. I’m not an old man (in my mid-30s), and as a child growing up in the 80s and 90s I aspired to one day own a Cadillac, but Cadillac is moving away from what I look for a luxury car to be. I think that Lincoln has the right idea, even if the execution isn’t quite there yet. I have spent time behind the wheel of the new Continental. It’s a quiet, smooth and comfortable vehicle with a lot of neat touches that GM as a whole doesn’t seem to understand yet, like the selectable color ambient lightning, and welcome lightning that projects the emblem on the ground (GM seems to lack unique lighting touches in general like illuminated door sills and grille emblems). Where the Lincoln falls short is in switchgear and interior layout, which just felt “old”. I expect a luxury car to be quiet and comfortable first and foremost. I don’t mind using the parts bin for some items, but things like the 2.0T should never be in a car in this class. Speaking of which, I’m not sure what class that is supposed to be… the size, price, overall look and even the name are way too similar to the CTS. From what I read, I don’t think that the CT6 is going to provide the kind of ride that I’m looking for, but I’m curious as to how it will behave. I’ve now driven several 2017 Lacrosse with FWD, AWD and the 18″ and 20″ wheels. While it’s not a perfect vehicle, I don’t expect to like the CT6 as much, which is not a great thing for Cadillac. Caddy really needs to step up the game on this car, or the “real” flagship -if that ever arrives. I know that looks are subjective, but there is a definite wow factor lacking on this car. It’s no Elmiraj, or even Avenir.

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    1. You hit the nail on the head with Lincoln. As you said, their products are no where near up to par with Cadillac. But they are going back to basics with just big quite plush luxury cars. Also Lincoln’s marketing is driving this point which in the long run will pay off for them as long as they keep bringing out cars that are better then Lincoln’s of the last decade.

      Cadillac and its marketing team are in complete state of confusion. Of course they will not admit it. But just read thousands of comments from former and potential future customer’s and automotive journalists and hear what they have to say. Cadillac dose not want to copy the Germans but they do not want to be associated with a quite stodgy luxury reputation. Cadillacs marketing team has to chose one or the other. I never thought I would say this but unless Cadillac can figure out its future identity soon and get some interesting products out, Lincoln will catch up and pass Cadillac.

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      1. I totally agree that Lincoln has a much firmer grip on their own identity than Cadillac currently has, and eventually Lincoln may blow past Cadillac in terms of sales and profits. That’s sad in a way, because Cadillac was the true American luxury icon, and Lincoln was always a distant second. But if Cadillac wants to throw away its own hard-won history and concede the traditional American luxury market to Lincoln (while instead pursuing the BMW/sport/German-like market), then Lincoln should reap major benefits from that.

        I hope though that some of Cadillac’s exterior designers will move over to Lincoln, because that’s the one area where Cadillac has remained loyal to its own past (the bold angular design), while Lincoln exteriors have generally been either bland and boring or copycat (pre-2000 of Cadillac, most recently of Bentley, with the new Continental).

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      2. I was thinking about this some more during my commute this morning, and the Black Label Collection is another thing that Lincoln is doing right. Not only with the enhanced ownership experience of included maintenance for four years, car washes, annual detailing, but exclusive paint AND interior colors. Cadillac’s color palate has been a sore spot with me in recent years for offering the same limited and muted hues as the rest of GM’s lineup, but to add insult to injury are charging extra (as is Buick) for colors like silver and dark blue which are the same exact colors that are included on a Sonic, which is 1/3 the price of a CT6. I’m all for extra cost colors on a luxury car, but they should be exclusive and special. Look through the sales material for Cadillac in the mid 80s. Sure, it might be a low point in their history, but there are half a dozen special order colors offered, and they switched them up every few years. Along with the lighting touches mentioned in my previous post, these are the kinds of things Cadillac seems to be overlooking.

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        1. Black Label Lincolns are for people with more money than sense. $65,000 for an MKX? Seriously?

          Silver is a no-cost paint color on the CT6, along with the basic black.

          Also, the Dark Adriatic Blue Metallic is a Cadillac-only paint color. So, it is a special paint color, I guess.

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  12. 52 year old here… Bought the Base model CT6 (RWD with 2.0T, plus Driver Awareness and Convenience pkg)… paid $51k… I’m thrilled with the car. It handles great and rides great (I don’t like floaty barges like the XTS), it has tons of passenger room, a big trunk, gets 27 mpg and looks great. The interior quality is just fine for the price point. Not sure where all the hate is coming from.

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