mobile-menu-icon
GM Authority

Cadillac CTS Sales Fall 35 Percent To 1,024 Units In October 2016

Cadillac CTS deliveries in the United States totaled 1,024 units in October 2016, a decrease of 35 percent compared to the 1,567 units sold in October 2015. In the first ten months of 2016, sales of the CTS have dropped 17 percent to 13,172 units.

Sales Numbers - Cadillac CTS - October 2016 - United States

MODEL OCT 16 / OCT 15 OCTOBER 16 OCTOBER 15 YTD 16 / YTD 15 YTD 16 YTD 15
CTS -34.65% 1,024 1,567 -16.74% 13,172 15,820

In Canada, the CTS recorded 73 deliveries in October 2016, down 40 percent compared to October 2015. In the first ten months of the year, sales of the midsize prestige-sport-luxury sedan in Canada totaled 721 units, up 10 percent compared to the first ten months of 2015.

Sales Numbers - Cadillac CTS - October 2016 - Canada

MODEL OCT 16 / OCT 15 OCTOBER 16 OCTOBER 15 YTD 16 / YTD 15 YTD 16 YTD 15
CTS -39.67% 73 121 +9.57% 721 658

Further Info And Sales Resources

A car-loving millennial. We Are!

Subscribe to GM Authority

For around-the-clock GM news coverage

We'll send you one email per day with the latest GM news. It's totally free.

Comments

  1. Reply
    1. I really like the current CTS, but feel that it is too expensive for what it is. Especially compared to the pricing on the previous generation car. Perhaps the CT6 is stealing some sales since it is at a very similar price point.

      The ATS, is failing for different reasons. It’s getting long in the tooth, and was benchmarked against the previous gen. 3-Series on paper… Not only has that car been replaced with a superior car, maybe Cadillac misjudged the reasons why people buy the 3-Series to begin with. It’s about the prestige of owning a BMW, not necessarily how it performs when pushed to the limits. GM spent their wad on performance, and cut corners in places like the gauge cluster the owner stares at while interacting with the car… something you see at the auto show and showroom floor before you turn the key (push the button) and find out that it might be a fun car to drive too. The ATS is a very flawed and compromised car IMO.

      Reply
      1. Isn’t the higher pricing of the CTS (and other Cadillacs) part of de Nysschen’s “strategy” to make the perception of Cadillac better by charging more? By making Cadillac more “exclusive”? I’m not saying I agree with the strategy – in fact I don’t – but it’s all part of de Nysschen’s master plan for Cadillac. Raise prices, put a design center/coffee shop in Manhattan, change the naming of the vehicles (again) to more resemble the European naming conventions. The new strategy, until de Nysschen is gone in a few years and the strategy changes again.

        Great points about the ATS too. Someone apparently thought they could “out-German the Germans” by making an even more cramped, harder-riding car that rips through the twists and turns of the harshest test track even faster than BMW. At some point maybe the average buyer realized that he/she doesn’t drive like that on his daily commute, and would like some actual luxury and comfort – the type that Cadillac used to offer on all their cars. There’s no better example of Cadillac’s identity crisis than the ATS, and frankly it does somewhat recall the Cimarron and Catera as Cadillac trying to be German/BMW rather than trying to be Cadillac. Much nicer looking than those cars, but failing as a Cadillac for similar reasons.

        Reply
  2. With the much bigger XTS and now CT6, why would anyone buy this car. Don’t get me wrong I think the CTS is a good looking car however its too small for my taste. Like Black Buick said the car is so close to pricing of its 2 bigger brothers, they are surely takeing away more and more sales away from it.

    Reply
  3. people are buying SUV/CUVs instead of cars these days.

    Reply
  4. It’s nailed to the showroom floors. 0% for 96 months and 25% discount might help?

    Reply
    1. The financing option is better than the steep discounting which affect vehicle value.
      There is still like in the luxury sedan segment but Cadillac has to do a significant re-fresh and move the design language further ahead.

      Reply
      1. I was being sarcastic. Yes this is all about product and the perception of the company. Discounting hurts the brand. At the same time, the product is better but still several steps behind established brands.

        Reply
  5. Where is Johan De Nysschens cheerleader , we usually would have heard / read the short story about not casting blame on Johan !?!
    Every post I have read so far has completely described what is wrong with this car and Cadillac as a whole IMO .
    Plus , sadly we should get used to these numbers while Cadillac is in it’s self imposed hiatus .
    Toyota showed off their new compact SUV at the recent auto show and it doesn’t look half bad , and Subaru even showed a concept for a 7 passenger SUV that was described as close to a production model . All Cadillac had to show was the Escala ( which I hope is the CT8 ) and nothing to get the public excited about ” any ” of the secretive SUV’s we have been waiting for and reading about.
    Some one needs to light a fire under somebody’s _ _ _ and quit playing catch-up with the rest of the industry .

    Reply
    1. You asked for it so now you are going to get it. [though it appears you don’t really get it based on your rubbish said in my most Jeremy Clarkson kind of way]

      What car does Cadillac have that JDN is responsible for? CTS no, ATS no, XT5 no, CT6, No. All were done before he arrived 2 years and 2.5 months ago.

      If anything the small changes that could be addressed have been like the Cue and better Speedometers etc have been addressed as much as they could be in a short time.

      As it is he warned you not to get excited as they had to take the time to stop programs and fix what is really a mess of product that was put in place buy a number of leaders before JDN arrived. Many of them not only were the responsibility of several people but also the lack of funding from GM till they agreed to open the wallet up.

      There are some major things in play here. The ATS and CTS were from a past admin that was just trying to improve on the FWD based XTS they were forced into. Nice car but still a Impala under the skin.

      So right now you have products that the present admin really would to change to their own vision for Cadillac. You have a CTS and CT6 that are closer in size than they should be. You have a XT5 that is a volume model but not a sport model that they need that is now being worked on.

      While this is all getting fixed they are working on other Crossover models to fill the market needs and smaller cars that will be needed as they go forward. On top of all this then there is the Cadillac engine program where they are working to make engines that are for their own division.

      Not an easy task for anyone including the big three in the segment.

      The time off is needed and you are not going to see a lot of change it was made clear from the start.

      The New products are coming and it will be a much different Cadillac than what we have been seeing. Different models and different takes on models. the Alpha is much more adaptable to change and I expect to see that happen. I also expect the Omega will be expanded from one model to who knows what. Along the way we may even see a fun model to two like a small open roadster based on an Alpha and much later a Mid engine based on the C8.

      The Escala was a show car that was part of a three show car plan GM announced when the first one was shown. Each one was to show where Cadillac was planning to go styling wise and become more production like with each one though none were production vehicles. The last one may have got some JDN ideas but it was limited.

      Finally the reality and facts that get into the way of many who are disappointed.

      #1 A mild refresh is generally a 2 year project. Note that is why just this year we are starting to see that.

      #2 Major replacements take 5 years. That is even a rush job on a existing platform. So why no new JDN cars yet and the 18-24 month delay? Well that its is the reality of building a car that explains it clearly.

      #3 How long has JDN been here? 2 years and 2.5 months. You figure out the time line for change not counting scrapping things he saw that were way off base when he arrived.

      #4 Scrapping programs and designs once he arrived. Yes Lutz did it too like the revamp of the GP to what it became because it was so bad and that took a year. The Lacrosse was sent back and delayed another year because it was even worse. Even then he was stuck with the old W body that had hard points that could not be moved.

      You can light all the fires you like but it is not going to speed up anyone or anything more than it already is. It takes time to build and engineer cars right. Even years ago when designs changed every year many were in development up to 7 years.

      The point is this is not about catch up it is more about Continuity. Cadillac needs to keep the same leaders for more than 2 years and work a vision of that leader for more than 5 years. As it is now we have had a revolving door of people and ideas and it shows.

      Will JDN be successful? I have no clue but given the time and money he has to do better than what those before him did with the incomplete mottled mess we have had.

      The least all of us can do at this point is much like the election. Stop prejudging someone till they have actually failed. Lets let the action and the models we see over the next few years count to what we declare vs. a drop in sales of a car that the many had nothing to do with and is for the most part getting old fast in a fast moving segment.

      Note I have no worship of JDN. Personally I have no love or hate for the man what so ever. I am not a cheer leader for him but I am a fair man willing to let him show us what he has and let him sink or swim on his own success or failure. If you have a problem with that then that is on you. This is the real world and that is how it really works.

      I expect you will begin to see mules next year on some new models and they will start to show up around 2019-2020. Even then Cadillac is not going to take the top spot in the segment in image and customer trust. That takes time and continued good product to do that.

      Even then Cadillac does not need to out sell the others all they need to do is good steady growth with high ATP and profits and they will do the job they were targeted to do. In this segment is is about high profits per unit not volume so much. These cars are added money and you do not market or sell them as you do a Ford or Chevy. This is also why you do not make a Chevy into a Cadillac. If you have to you make a Cadillac into a Chevy as they have but even then you must be careful.

      FYI in the en Rye will hate it all anyways and you know what it really does not matter.

      So right now Cadillac just needs to ride the storm out. Sale volumes are not great but they are still making money and are not a burden. The key is to make more money and that should come with the changes we see. That is how the final out come will be measured for JDN and he knows it.

      You can hate this post all you like but this is how it works. It is not my personal opinion as I am a JAFO just like the rest of you. I have had these things explained to me by people inside the industry and that is how I learned about them. They get as frustrated as we do on an even higher scale as they have to answer for these things when they go south. They are people like us with companies that are not always as functional as we would like them to be. Change is not easy or always as fast as you like but that is just something you have to deal with.

      Reply
      1. This is the longest apologist sh*tpost I’ve ever seen.
        Hope you’re pleased with it.

        Reply
        1. Prove me wrong one of tough talk and no fact and little substance!

          You like to be critical but you bring nothing to the table!

          Come on make you case!

          Or will you just hide behind snide worthless posts.

          Reply
          1. It’s the GM process where it’s management by committee. No one wants to be blamed for the screw up. I believe they call it MATRIX MANAGEMENT. A costly form of management with long timetables to the end product. Your dissertation sort explains why it looks like GM with head stuck in the sand.

            Reply
            1. Yes GM was very dysfunctional for decades leading up to the bail out.

              They often has systems in place that rewarded people on goals that often did not lead to good or better products. To meet these goals often cost decisions were made to meet the goal at the expense of the product and sales.

              Other times it was because they could not make a decision and could only do as they were told to do. Case in point in Bob Lutz book. He asked the engineer on pressing sheet metal why they could not do panel gaps as well as Hyundai. The engineer said we can but we were never told to do it. Lutz asked you have to wait to be told and the engineer said yes as they could not make this decision themselves.

              They then were told by Lutz to fix the panel gaps which they did for a repetitively small sum and were told to so what needed to be done in the future and not wait to be told to do it.

              There are may other stories of dysfunction that went on.

              Post Bail Out GM had a lot on the plate to address. Cadillac has been a struggle between the GM leaders and board. Mark Reuss has tried to move Cadillac forward but often was held back by the board. He has been questioned on cost and other things needed to take Cadillac to the next level. Mary and Mark brought JDN in and were given the money and autonomy finally to revamp Cadillac but the work only started 2 years ago. We have yet to see anything from this arrangement yet and it will be just starting

              There were many internal issues and still some yet to be worked out along with the time line it takes to bring product change.

              Right now GM time tables are as fast as anyone in the industry but the many restarts of the last 10 years and turn over in Cadillac direction and management has really hurt them,.

              We have stability now but we still have the expected time table it takes to make these changes.

              Even companies as large as GM can not afford to do it all in one year nor do they have the man power to so it any faster. Development cost are as high as ever.

              The real key is when the new product comes will JDN hit the mark and make steady progress moving forward in product quality and image. On when it hits the market will any of us know if they pulled it off. It is not a big gamble but if it works it will be a very profitable pay off.

              Reply
              1. scott3, the eternal GM optimist/apologist.

                I think most of us are suggesting that the fixes cadillac needs could be achieved with better marketing and dropping of low tier models. Johan CAN do this. He thinks that by increasing sticker prices, he can create a brand. Cadillacs offer a poor value proposition and don’t yet have the prestige of the german brands to sell crap for high prices.

                Unless cadillac is fixed quickly, it’ll join olds and pontiac and saturn, and gm will focus growth on a brand that actually means something, like corvette. We all know corvettes of any generation are synonymous with performance. Porsche made the jump into SUVs and sedans. Corvette still has cachet. What does cadillac stand for??

                Reply
                1. Megatron the eternal short sighted GM pessimist.

                  Ok say you drop Cadillac down in price. What do you do with Buick. GM has yet to really address Buick as they need to move Cadillac up to make room. So you propose to sell two brands in the same segment?

                  As for fixing quickly? you do understand that Cadillac even in the present state is making money.

                  You know the Packard story? I assume not with your comments. They were to the point they just lost their mojo and they did not have a large corporation supporting them let alone any profits. So what did they do. They moved down market. What did that do? Well Studebaker took them over and shortly there after they died.

                  The way forward it to get the core line up to snuff to what they should be and with no compromises. The ace in the hole is the Crossovers as it is a new segment to all brand and Cadillac with the GM heritage of SUV models gives them a leg up.

                  Cadillac stands for world class luxury and it lost that and that is what they need to find in the next 7-10 years, Then once you get the product out you must continue to refine it and earn the trust of the customers. there is a slot above the Buick lines that will let Cadillac grow. They for sure are not ready to challange cars like the Maybach models or Rolls but they can take on the mid pack luxury.

                  Now keep in mind they have a smaller cars coming and a small Crossover coming to give them a lower entry priced model.

                  The fact is they are making money now and that buys them time to grow the brand. No brand made it to where they are over night and not with one single model.

                  Discounts, lower prices and compromises are a path to failure. They have already failed in this segment and others have failed and one away in this segment.

                  Reply
                  1. No, I suggested we abolish incentives and low tier models. You misunderstood.

                    I am harsh about GM because we were a GM family and we got burned on *many* cars with mechanical issues and poor service. I was driving our 2002 intrigue when the ignition switch died and I was lucky the intersection was green not red. And we still kept buying GM. Now we don’t.

                    I want GM to succeed because I love American products, but it seems they’re content to be subpar. It’s shameful.

                    Reply
                    1. I agree on the incentives and so does Cadillac as they have tried to change content to stem the incentives. But when inventories build they have to let cars go some way as you can not just let them sit. The market is slow for everyone and they all play with the Heroin like Incentives.

                      As for lower Tier I do not see them doing that. Now they are going to build smaller models Cross over and car because they have to.

                      MPG is going to still have to go up. Hybrid technology is not cheap and not everyone wants it or can afford to pay top dollar even in this segment. The smaller models are not really considered lower models just smaller and they will be priced a little less due to size.

                      I can understand if you had issues to be sour but you can not let it impair your judgment. The fact is all companies have had issues. I have had to repair models of all makes and for some really crappy reasons and poor execution. Just because you paid more does not mean you are not going to have issues.

                      GM has needed to do better and I will be the first to say it but they are not really any worse than most. We have had GM products in our family for decades and only have had a few issues is a great number of cars. Keep in mind when I grew up we would get one or two new cars a year for several decades.

                      In all those cars the only two major issues were a intake and intake gasket and a cam failure. All the rest we saw great service with only the normal wear items like brakes an occasional water pump and or sensor.

                      GM is not far out of the game and has been closing in from where they were. Just compare a CT6 to the STS of the 90’s and a Seville of the 80’s and it is a marked difference.

                      Cadillac does need to work on the details like interior materials and interior systems. This area is always last on the list and always suffers from under funding.

                      On the other hand GM has always had the best Transmissions, Their engines have been world class leading or pretty close to it. The suspension in today’s Cadillac are considered better than BMW today.

                      While you see the glass half empty I see it half full. They are making gains and they are finally getting stable leadership that has slowed their pace.

                      JDN has spoken publicly and has outlined how the details need to improve and how the interiors need redone and other details on the cars need addressed. He has said the right things, he has been given the money to do it and now just needs the time to make the changes.

                      While you accuse me of being an apologist you could be no more wrong. I am fair minded as I am willing to give them the time to produce the models to show what the new leadership can do. Why would I condemn them today for what they have not shown us yet????

                      We addressed the time line here and as of yet we have only seen some very minor Refresh this year that will be short term because they are working to replace the cars with a major update

                      Now when the new cars come they have to be right and the details need to be addressed. The new Cadillac engines need to be of the level of the new LT engine in quality and not the old North Star that liked to carbon up rings and blow head gaskets.

                      I want to make it clear to you that I have no idea if JDN will get this done. Once he shows us his cards then we can really pass judgment. Actions not rumors are what will determine the final out come here.

                      I find this fair and if you do not well we are just going to have to disagree. Changing marketing right now is not going to change much. Lower prices are not going to change much. Designing compelling designs and top quality products over a period of time will change hearts and minds nothing else.

                      Note how I said over time. Not one single model and not one single model year is going to change the place Cadillac is in. We just need to see them make progress with each model and each year as you can only earn your image and place in the segment one customer and model at a time.

                      SO please do not mistake my not passing judgment on the future of Cadillac before we are even shown it. Once they do show us and if they get it right they will win praise. If they fail and drop the ball I will call them out harshly. That is a promise.

                      For now we just have to wait in this holding pattern and just see what happens when the future arrives in about 1.5-2 years.

                      What has given me hope is when JDN arrived he deemed the CT6 not good enough for a flagship. The truth is it is a nice car but it is no the showcase it should be for a flagship. That change stirred up a lot of S*(T at GM but it was the truth. This gives me hope that someone there leading the division finally gets it. He is from the outside and has not been shielded from the rest of the market as many insiders were. Like Lutz he has told them things they did not want or like to hear but needed to be said. Now we just have to wait to see if he can translate that into the products with out interference.

                      Reply
                    2. My takeaways here are:
                      1) Cadillac needs a serious portfolio upgrade to up its game over the next couple of years, but I get real nervous about waiting a long time for a promise. The only recent exciting concept (Escala) was pretty much poo-poo’d by Cadillac. Sure hope there’s something else special in the works.
                      2) Cadillac’s unwillingness to address its pricing/packaging disconnect with the market with current products doesn’t indicate an acceptance of reality or ability to adjust. Again, no warm and fuzzies about that.

                      What could Cadillac do now to address pricing/packaging? What about creating both a luxury and performance value edition of the ATS and CTS?

                      ATS:
                      1) Create a base edition with more luxury appointments and smoother ride, reminiscent of what Cadillac was once famous for
                      2) Create an ATS V-sport edition with the 3.0TT engine that nearly matches the V, but now undercuts the M3 to make up for shortcomings

                      CTS:
                      2) Ditto on a value luxury edition
                      3) Go a little more aggressive on the V-sport so that it looks the part rather than resemble a base CTS. Bump the power closer to the ATS-V. Heck, the carbon black V-sport may have some of the right pieces, but Cadillac hasn’t even marketed it and no one even knows what it looks like!! (great announcement BTW)

                      (case in point) ELR:
                      Nothing can be done now, but why just kill this car because it was priced and packaged wrong? This is the future of the automobile, it looked sexy, but was just priced/packaged all wrong. How much $$$ was lost here? How can this strategically make sense?

                      It would be nice to see that someone is still home at Caddy working on today’s models. None of these are (were) bad cars, but it’s unfortunate to see them languish.

                      As for improved profits, I’ve spent too much time at large companies that were focused on the bottom line to fall for the “increasing profitability but diminishing market share is a good sign” argument. Seen it too many times when bean counters and MBA types react to diminishing revenues as a time to downsize – and then all we’re left with is “what could have been.”

                      Reply
                    3. N400

                      #1 Well if you know of a way to get the new product out faster you had better tell GM. When you make statements like this you need to temper them with the reality of how long it takes to produce new product. Especially when you need to touch them all. I think you will find that the time they are taking will be the same as the reality it takes to get this kind of work done.

                      As for justifying the price. You can lower the price and overlap Buick fighting Lincoln for lower profits and continued lower image. Or you can address the product and fix it like GM has failed to do. I think you will find that is what is going on now. You give them a car worth the price and make the styling compelling to draw the customers attention for the right reason they will come. Also as long as Cadillac is making money it buys them the time to do this. Their goal is to make more money not just make money.

                      As for the comments on the cars. I do agree they need a shake up and that is what they are getting. As to what you want to see some things are realistic and I expect you will see it and other things are just not going to happen.

                      By the way the CT6 shows a direction that the ELR never could go and is a hidden model here. They need to market this a little better to plant the seed for future models.

                      Just making the ATS and CTS is not going to make them better. They already match up to the M cars pretty well. They need the details like better materials for inside a Cue people can connect with in the first two mins they see it. etc. Also things like better packaging of the rear seat in the ATS and moving the CTS away from the CT6 model in size and styling.

                      You fix what is broken and performance was never in question.

                      Pricing and packaging has been addressed but there are limits till they change the cars. If you lower the price you send a bad signal and then you have to start all over moving it up. Just make the new car worth the price in styling and content and you will solve a lot.

                      Even then it will take time to build image in the customer mind. Over the years many people got burned and like when you get sick and barf
                      on that last taco you lose the taste for it for a good while.

                      Rebuilding is not easy, fast and not for the weak of heart.

                      Reply
                    4. I don’t think the new model development can go any faster. However, not attempting to improve the existing models, which are pretty darn good aside from pricing/packaging seems a bit odd.

                      Maybe Cadillac has a charter to build new models regardless of what happens to current sales. I’ve never known any business to keep investing in a declining revenue stream, but maybe the next few years of budget are already locked down (it’s never worked that way for me).

                      Reply
                2. Megatron good thoughts; actually I’ve made a similar observation on these message boards – that GM could have made Corvette a performance/luxury brand instead of just a single car, and could have kept Cadillac as the large, elegant, fully-powered, roomy, high tech electronics, plush riding vehicles that they traditionally have been. Instead they for some reason decided to make Cadillac a “performance” brand, which has not been embraced by many of the performance-seekers, and is missing out on potential buyers (including aging baby boomers) who would appreciate a roomy, nice ride.

                  Oddly enough, I saw on a BMW blog that a first-time BMW owner was complaining about the hard ride in his car. He was told by others that this is just a feature of BMW, and if he wanted a more comfortable ride then he should consider a Cadillac. Of course few current Cadillacs now even offer a comfortable ride, which ironically was so famously cushioned it was known as the “Cadillac ride”. Today some models (such as the ATS) ride even harder than a BMW, while Lexus is generating plenty of sales with roomy and comfortable rides (rather than chasing “performance”).

                  Given that Cadillac had already established a reputation over many decades as a brand offering a consistent set of features, it’s curious that they chose to throw that all away in pursuit of becoming a BMW imitator. Especially when they could have had two “luxury” brands, one with the roomy comfortable ride (Cadillac) and one with the “performance” qualities (Corvette). It’s probably too late to go for that strategy now, but possibly not. They would need to re-re-brand Cadillac, but it still could be done. Otherwise they seem to be a failure as a “performance” brand (in terms of sales at least), and they’ve been missing out on much of the “comfortable luxury” side of things too.

                  Reply
                  1. Drew your insight about the possible road not traveled is really interesting! Corvette would have made a lot of sense as a performance brand and Cadillac could have retained the comfort crown instead of losing it to the likes of the Mercedes S class (which is true luxury! They have an optional perfume scented cabin and massaging seats!)

                    Sadly, I fear we have reached the zenith of the personal automobile. Autonomous cars are a few years away and personal ownership will be succeeded by on demand subscriptions. It’s awesome but also the end of an era. I think the automakers are gearing up for the revolution and are shying away from pouring resources into next gen sports cars. At least we can hope that the last gen vette will drop that lt1 v8 in the middle!

                    Reply
  6. cars have gotten small and boring….cars ware big and beautiful back in the 1960s and 70s and now there are just boring.

    Reply
  7. I think we need to get back to the subject matter minus the personal insults .
    My original post never called anyone out by name nor did I say anything about anyone being ” mis-informed ” . Things like that don’t annoy me but I thought it might get a response ! 😉 ..
    I’ll concede that JDN had almost nothing to do with what sits on any Cadillac showroom floor , however if we use your facts and figures as to the development of the CT6 ( for ex. ) , if it does take 5 years to implement a new vehicle and we have to give JDN a break because he has only been at the helm for 2 years and 2.5 months that means the program was only 2 years and 9.5 months old . Given that you have to admit that Johan did have his hands on a good portion of the car . Also he had to have a say in any refresh that happened this year and going forward .

    Reply
    1. If my memory serves me correctly we started seeing CT6 or at the time it was called LTS mules riding around as early as January of 2014.. That’s 6 months before JDN was hired and the car was virtually finished at that point.

      Going back further the flagship itself was approved under the Ed Whitacre leadership in 2010 when he was GM’s CEO so this chassis and car were in development for 5 years when the CT6 starting hitting the showrooms in 2015.

      Reply
      1. Dan you have the right idea here.

        Also a little time needed to be considered due to the time it took to get the Omega approved and ready for the car. Platforms always add a little more time.

        Another thing to consider is the leader ship changes also slowed the flag ship several times. This cars birth was a challenging one for GM due to the things going on at the time.

        Reply
    2. You were the one with the slights as I only challenged you to show me where I am wrong. I do not expect you to agree but I would like to debate this.

      Well let start with the CT6.

      The car was in development long before JDN got here. Lets look at the facts.

      The Omega platform is all new and this added to the development of the car as did the new welding system of aluminum and steel.

      Time line here. JDN arrived in August of 2014.

      CT6 arrived at the NYC show in April of 2015.

      If my math is correct the CT6 was out 8 months after the arrival of JDN.

      Also we must factor the CT6 was a car Mark Reuss oversaw and was his baby while he groomed it for a flagship prior to the $12 Billion investment. Mark was fighting for more money but was often found on the losing end to the board.

      Now knowing a minor refresh takes 18 months to 2 years little could change on the car. The only things JDN could really address is the way the car was marketed. initially it was going to be the Cadillac Flagship car but in the end it was demoted as JDN did not deem it good enough.

      Now that the car is moving into the second year the changes he could do are just now reaching the car. In two years that means only a mild refresh and up dates to systems in the car like the improved Cue etc.

      So if you look at the time line the CT6 was 90%+ locked in and had no time what so ever to get any real changed to the product outside marketing. If you want to rip the marketing that one is on JDN.

      The XT5 was about a year later. Still too late for a mild refresh and changes. It is not really a vehicle he wants but it is one he will have to live with as it makes money and hold volume. We should start to see changes to it next year in a mild refresh.

      We should see in late 2018 a ATS replacement and soon after a CTS replacement.The age of the cars is right and the time would be enough to see changes in both more than a mild refresh as they are now getting.

      Then we should see 2-3 new Crossovers and a few surprises. There will be a very small Crossover and one between the XT5 and Escalade. It could be on the new RWD Colorado based platform like Chevy and GM will get. Or it could be one based on the Omega. I expect the Omega over the Alpha as it can be larger and still lighter. Also the Omega is even more flexible.

      In all this mess a flag ship be it a Cross over or 5 door sedan is coming.

      Now if you want to hold JDN responsible you can at the product just now seeing a mild refresh and any new model from this point on..

      As for JDN he does not owe me money so I have no love or hate for the man. But I will not condemn him when he has yet to produce a mild refresh let alone a totally new product yet.

      Again if you disagree with any of this or can prove me wrong on the time line feel free to debate this. That is what Forums are all about. If we all sat and agreed or just slammed someone because they posted a complete response then we would get no where.

      As for development on the CT6 just go back to the intro date and the old stories on the mules and you will see just how far back the car dates. It was not something that just happened.

      I am not smarter than anyone I just did the homework to follow the dates. Anyone can do it. Also I have been lucky enough to have had a top GM engineer in the family that taught me much and with my work and hobby I have been able to deal with many GM engineers who like to speak off the record on how things worked or did not work too many times.

      In the end this whole thing could end up in a steaming pile of $*$* but we just have to wait to see how this is going to go as it is too early to call yet due to the lack of info.

      Is JDM doing the right things? Is GM going to keep with their commitment to let Cadillac run on its own with little interference? No one can answer that yet.

      One more thing we need to keep in mind. It will take several years to get all these models done and out. Then it also will take time for the public to embrace or reject them. Even a home run is not going to change the Cadillac image over night. Trust and image are only earned over time with a series of models over a number of years.

      BMW did not get where they were with the first year of the 3 series.

      The key for Cadillac is to one get the product up to where it needs to be. Two keep things profitable Three grow the image and trust in the brand. Four to grow the brand globally. one model and one year is not going to do this so even if they do get it right it will take time.

      Reply
      1. GM PDT sorry this is not directed fully at you. It was mostly intended @ CadillacGrille.

        But feel free to comment at will.

        Reply
  8. I’ve had my CT6 for about five months now and came out of the 2015 CTS. I loved driving the CTS but didn’t like the interior at all, particularly when compared to the CT6 – which by the way, still needs improvement and has too much hard plastic. We live our driving lives inside the car and the poor design and execution of the current CTS interior is unfortunate…whoever thought a motorized door covering the cupholders was a better way to spend money than better materials should be reassigned!

    Reply
    1. You have hit the nail on the head.

      The CT6 suffered issued in development where GM tried to cut cost while Mark Reuss tried to upgrade materials. Keep in mind this was when it was still considered the Flagship.

      Well this thinking has changed and JDN has stated interior materials are a priority as he did not feel they were food enough. Same with operating systems and other details. These are areas we will see the greatest changed.

      Having the best chassis in class is great but you need to address all the details.

      Reply
    2. Or from 2016 to 2017 an extra bar in the grille and tilting the exhaust vertical and replacing the color-keyed panel between with a cheap-looking bean counter approved black panel on all colors!

      Reply
    3. I guess I will humbly disagree regarding the interior but concurr on the gimmicky power sliding cup cover.

      I have a 2016 CTS Premium in the Kona Brown and have zilch complaints with the quality. Have had numerous compliments on the interior and more specifically the comfort of the seats.

      Cadillac still doesn’t have a clue how to market some of it vehicles! The ATS and CTS offer Kona Brown in addition to the boring gray and black. However the tan in the CT6 can only be had with radiant silver??????? Hardly compatible to me! How can you have your top line car basically only available in two interior colors? How do you offer a Premium Luxury costing $80k with only two colors? Some heads need to roll!

      Reply
      1. Good point about the colors. I am so sick of seeing endless lines of silver and gray cars. But that’s largely the fault of public taste, I suppose. And that people like “low maintenance” cars, so a dusty silver car is not as noticeably dirty as cars of another color.

        Interiorwise, I generally don’t like black or other dark interior colors. Looks cool at night, but depresses me in the winter and even the summer, when I want to get sunlight in the car via the sunroof. Not to mention that black leather can get pretty hot in the sunlight. I generally rule out black interiors right away, but you are right on the CT6 that leaves only a dark tan/light brown as a choice. Light gray aka “platinum” is probably the best neutral choice for car interior, with light beige as a slightly warmer looking option.

        I’m old enough (though under 60) to remember cars of much more interesting and bold colors – yellow, orange, green, bright blue. Today it’s basically silver/gray, white, black, with a rare red or navy blue. Funny though how in the car commercials on television, probably half of them are red. Red accounts for maybe 11% in reality, and those are mostly smaller cars. At least Cadillac has consistently offered red, albeit as a $1k premium option and sometimes in more muted (tending toward maroon than bright red) than I would like. But a lot of big cars don’t come in any bold colors, so for Cadillac to offer any sort of red is at least something.

        Reply
      2. I looked at the Kona brown leather, it was very nice. The issue with the CTS interior is the design and the materials on the dash and console, not the seats. Audi and Lexus are vastly superior in this regard and Mercedes has better materials but I’m not a fan of the interior design.

        JDM took Audi from a glorified VW / Taxi car to one of the German “Big 3” with great design, particularly the interior where we spend all our time. The fact that design and quality materials overcame a FWD platform and packaging to be considered in the same space as Mercedes and BMW is amazing. When was the last time you heard about Audi’s FWD roots being an issue?

        Ultimately, Cadillac will be fine and I like the direction they are heading but as you’ve all discussed here already, these things take time…lots of time.

        Reply
  9. I can see the CT6 getting a refresh and an update. possibly a V8 around 2020….but I also see that Cadillac will put more effort and money into CUV/SUVs.

    Reply
  10. Currently, I own 2 CTSs, an ’08 and a ’15. I bought the ’08 brand new and loved the experience so much that I wanted to buy a new one. I hadn’t been keeping up with the pricing, so when I went to the dealership I almost passed out by how much an equally appointed CTS would cost in ’16. There’s no way I’m paying $60k for a CTS! If I wanted to pay for a Mercedes, I’d buy a Mercedes! Therefore, I took my $40K and bought a 1-year old Premium with 11k miles. My friends all have Benzes, Bimmers & Lexus’ the parking lots are littered with them…I like feeling smart about spending my money. In my mind, I can buy a Caddy; have prestige, more exclusivity all for less money.

    Reply

Leave a comment

Cancel