Pretty much every outlet that reported that Cadillac was developing a “Chevrolet Cruze-based” model to slot below the ATS all received official comments of strong denial and downright refutal that such a vehicle could be coming. Such an alleged model could compete in the segment featuring the Mercedes-Benz CLA and Audi A3.
Cadillac leaders such as Uwe Ellinghaus and Johan de Nysschen have repeatedly hinted that an entry-level Cadillac slotted beneath the ATS would be the oversteering enthusiast’s choice of rear-wheel-drive. In effect, it would be rivaling the BMW 2-Series, a vehicle line that BMW North America claims to have sold around just 13,000 units in 2015.
Conversely, the front-wheel-drive based, more fuel efficient and more space efficient Audi A3 and Mercedes-Benz CLA sold 35,984 units and 29,643 units, respectively. In terms of sheer market volume, demand isn’t pointing in the favor of a small RWD vehicle with a premium badge. Instead, demand seems to point towards something more approachable.
Even if it’s taboo to call an alleged FWD Cadillac entry model “Cruze-based,” such a vehicle could at least share the same architecture, and floor pan, if anything, as a D2xx Chevrolet Cruze, because GM likely won’t spend the time or resources to make a unique platform for such a Cadillac vehicle. This platform sharing method has worked well for Audi, as the A3 sources much of its engineering from Volkswagen’s MQB Golf program. Yet, Audi doesn’t have to worry about unfair “CIMARRON! IT’S A CIMARRON ALL OVER AGAIN!” analogies. Crossovers aside, an entry level FWD-based Cadillac could be a likely volume player for the brand that continues to search for sales growth, though we know much more crossovers are coming. And Cadillac has all of the readily available resources from GM to make such a vehicle happen.
We can see the hearts of Cadillac fans and even those working within Cadillac desiring a rear-wheel-drive rival to the BMW 2 Series. But, like with the circumstances surrounding the elimination of the CT8 flagship program, we can see the business case of needing to focus on sales volume and profits first.
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At one time both Johan and Uwe repeatedly said it would be futile trying to out German the German’s (sic). Since then that is all Cadillac has seemed to try to do.
Every other sentence seems to mention their products specifically and the constant focus on RWD track ready sedans is really off the mark with the market for the last few years. How many more sizes of sedan is it going to take for people to want to buy them?
Right! Benz does well with CLA not only because the car is a game changer, but also because the entire brand line up is highly desired.
Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn’t have that glow. The brand has yet to enter consumers hearts.
It’s simple, if Cadillac want to please the enthusiast, then they need a RWD compact car, on the other hand, enthusiast make up less than 10% of the car buying public, so if volume and profits they want (why wouldn’t they?) then FWD make a ton more sense.
That comparison does not make sense! True, the BMW 2-Series is rear-wheel drive, but also is a Coupe. So your sales behavior should not be compared to body Sedan models.
The next small model Cadillac will not be “to compete with the 2-Series”. Although it will be rear-wheel drive (as revealed by Johan de Nysschen own), their approach will be different BMW model because you have a body Sedan. That is, Cadillac will not copy any of the strategies of competitors to enter that segment; will use its own.
Not saying it’s impossible, but it would be extremely difficult, from a packaging standpoint, to build a small RWD car with four doors and a functioning rear seat. The A3 sedan already has more rear legroom than an ATS, and it’s a smaller car.
It is true, I do not think it’s an easy job.
But I have confidence that the small rear-drive sedan that is developing can have a decent rear space. The chief engineer of Cadillac, Dave Leone, revealed that the models developed in the A2xx platform will have a better interior packaging, as his team figured out how to move the large structural element that currently presses on the back of your legs when you sit in the back seat.
The ATS has outer dimensions quite similar to the current CLA, where there is a noticeable difference is in the wheelbase. No need to make major changes in the dimensions of the platform to build the sub-model ATS in it. Imagine an ATS with a slightly smaller wheelbase, a different body design with less overhangs and a range of smaller engines.
With a design of front panel more vertical, which allows better use of space at the front, front seats with thin thickness and taking into account the fact that the interior packaging will be optimized for the next generation of the Alpha platform; I think they could achieve a space in the rear at least equal to that provided by the CLA (which is quite narrow, despite being front-wheel drive), but with the advantage of having better proportions and a less traumatic rear access.
Biggest mistake was going public with comments like Cadillac being RWD only. It greatly restricted possibilities to try to adhere to that kind of thing.
One has to remember what Cadillac was when they introduced the Cimarron compared with the company Cadillac is today because Cadillac could follow the formula used by Audi with the base model featuring front-wheel-drive with a higher performance model equipped with all-wheel-drive; the base car would feature the 200 horsepower LWC 1.6L DOHC-4v 4-cyl turbo from the Buick Cascada with the all-wheel-drive getting the 275 hp LTG 2.0L DOHC-4v 4-cyl turbo used as the based engine of the ATS.
The only people that care about which set of wheels drive the car, is us enthusiasts. Yes, RWD, without question, delivers a superior driving dynamics, but it also, without question, is sure to be a packaging nightmare for a small compact. My own sister bought a CLA, and when I tried to test her knowledge by asking her if her car is RWD or FWD, she looked at me as if I had grown a second head! Again, my point is, the target market for a small compact car don’t know and don’t care about driving wheel. Rear seat space, features, price and looks is what’s important. Cadillac won’t sell many if the rear seat space does not compare favourable with the CLA and the A3. Heck, the 2 series sedan BMW is working on is gonna be FWD, so Cadillac would be foolish to not follow, as this car is all about volume, and attracting young people, particularly women, to the brand
And what segment has the most enthusiast? The luxury class as image, performance and technology are the three driving points in their models.
This is why even in their FWD they try to retain all three.
It is more about people who just want FWD and would not buy a luxury brand if it were not FWD as they demand it from growing up in dads Civic and future regulations.
Image is not quantifiable.
I disagree that it is more about customers that only want FWD. I do not think anyone, except enthusiast, care which end is driving their vehicle.
The vast majority of drivers will never have occasion to push their vehicles to the limit to where RWD has an advantage over FWD.
Image = sales in this segment.
No one needs a luxury car but many people want one because of the image and prestige it places on the customer.
Few Ferrari buyers ever hit the track or even the red line but they sure like to be seen in a car. This is how BMW also sells many cars as it is not so much he content but the image it projects.
How many people do you know like to brag they own a Spark?
So what if your average buyer doesn’t know or care which wheels drive their vehicle? Luxury car buyers aren’t supposed to be treated like your average car buyer.
The problem is that GM has yet to prove they can successfully engineer a FWD platform that can match the refinement and dynamic handling characteristics of the Germans! Neither does Cadillac have the cache to appeal to anyone looking for a sub-compact luxury sedan! They oughta focus on refining the ATS, then consider something smaller! The Germans can do a small luxury sedan because they’ve convinced the market to believe that they are superior, and that everything they produce is as good as their high-end models! No matter what they build!
You rightfully assert “new” GM can do a much better job of developing an entry level Cadillac with the resources they have, and I’m sure they can! However, the day GM decided to build the Cimmaron was the day they forever tarnished their reputation as a legitimate contender in the luxury market!
RWD is Cadillac’s ticket! They have a golden opportunity to capitalize on this by making some genuinely sporty, lightweight CUV’s! Like I said, leave the Chevy-based vehicles to Buick! The Escalade gets a pass since people are willing to pay the premium for an overpriced Tahoe!
People who are focusing on the Cimmaron are in their 40s or older, the new subcompact models are pulling in buyers in their 30s and younger. They don’t care about what Cadillac did in the past only 3 key elements are required–style, tech, and decent fuel economy. The first two requirements I mention are the biggest factors, since this demographic wants people to notice what they are driving. The tech factor comes with the speed of processing and connectivity, which CUE seems to get slammed on by journalists.
Right idea but they are over 50 years old as people in their 40’s were just being born then.
GM has the technology to teach the Germans about FWD but to this point they just never had to build one to compete with them. GM has more decades and millions of FWD models vs. the Germans.
Just because they have now done it does not mean they can’t do it if they need to. The new Buicks have show to be some of the best over 300 hp driving cars in the world with their handling and control of torque steer.
Says who?!!!
I think you need to do research because Cadillac with the ’88-’91 STS and Eldorado Touring Coupe (’90-’91) and after before A&S begin with RWD were capable and handled well back in the day and while not equal to the Germans, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura was not as capable. Hell, Lexus’s LS and GS, somewhat, in ’90s did not handled better than the Cadillacs.
The best FWD Cadillac of the era was the ’98-’04 SLS/STS. I’m not sure about the other GM models back then but GM is more than capable of building exciting FWD products. XTS, XT5, ELR, Buick, Chevy and GMC are perfect examples of excellent FWD products from GM.
The 98-04 STS/SLS was panned for trying to be European! And I don’t ever recall the the 88-91 Eldorados or STS’s being praised for handling! In fact, none of GM’s vehicles from that period were great; besides a few select performance cars such as the ‘Vette.
And their modern FWD vehicles, while much improved, are still behind that of Audi! They are the standard of how a dynamic FWD vehicle should be built!!! The XTS V-Sport is no better than the Lincoln MKS 3.5L! The only decent FWD Buick is the Regal GS, which is plagued with understeer, poor acceleration and is overweight! Perhaps the next Regal will change things up a bit, but as it stands, GM does not build any exciting or dynamic FWD vehicles!
No, GM does not have the best FWD vehicles in the class and I never stated that but they are capable of producing a FWD vehicle that can hold well on its own.
Audi does make excellent FWD vehicles for the price, and they better handle better for the price you are paying. But they are not that significantly better in handling due to their cars being front heavy.
Regardless of what you say, GM is still very good at making front wheel drive cars very capable in handling. And in fact, they have the perfect balance of ride and handling whereas some automakers make handling a priority over ride comfort.
Well I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree. I never said you said GM had the best FWD platforms! I’m simply disagreeing with your assertion that GM’s FWD-based platforms can successfully underpin Cadillacs and be competitive with the elite luxury brands! Does GM have good FWD vehicles? Absolutely! They’re comfortable, have relatively decent handling and are now lightweight compared to the competition! However, Audi does the perfect job of combining FWD-based performance and comfort. GM does emphasize the comfort aspect of things, as demonstrated by the newest Cruze and Malibu. Which features their lightweight chassis and structural design. This is very commendable on GM’s part, and serve well as Chevys, Buicks and GMC’s. However, neither the newest Cruze or Malibu are said to be that great at handling and acceleration, which is rather surprising given they’re impressive weight reduction. Neither is the fuel economy that great compared to the competition! But we’ll see how far GM will push the envelope in getting the most out of their latest FWD-based platforms.
At the end of the day, I’m glad Cadillac is foregoing a Cruze-based sedan. It means so much more to potential customers if they can purchase a Cadillac that’s 100% exclusive: on the inside, outside, on top and underneath. Most people will have no problem with Cruze-based Cadillac if GM could somehow demonstrate their ability to successfully reengineer the D2XX platform to make it worthy of being a Cadillac! But do you really believe GM can and is willing to do so?!! I think not…..
Which “thought” is better for Cadillac to leave in the minds of buyers?
“They thought of everything and everyone.” = Most people don’t care about what kind of drivetrain they’re dropping extra cash on, but for those who do, Cadillac makes some of the best cars for them.
OR
“They thought they could get away with this.” = Most people don’t care about what kind of drivetrain they’re dropping extra cash on, so Cadillac borrowed the drivetrain from a less-expensive GM portfolio, added leather and gadget, then charged a premium. For those who do care, there’s BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
See what I mean?
They could easily out manuver the Germans with with the D2XX by making features standard to their entry model such as AWD, 2.0T (225hp/275lb-ft and stop/start), 18″ wheels, leather, and 8AT. Having the AWD system take on RWD characteristics should be easy enough, they could modify a version of Buick’s new twin-clutch system which would probably satisfy enthusiasts.
Styling is what will be a saving grace for them actually. The A&S evolution can be pushed further and having the entry level model standout would bring in those younger buyers. It should be influenced heavily by previous concepts (Elmarij comes to mind) especially the lightning elements. If you can get LED headlamps on a Toyota Corolla they should be standard across the board at Cadillac.
I know they want to keep their word on making all sedans RWD, but that strategy isn’t working and they need some models that will get them some volume. The packaging advantages and cost of using a light FWD based platform, far outweigh developing a RWD platform for one or two vehicles that you have to fold people into the backseat of. The illusion of RWD can be pulled off as wheel by modifying the dash to axle ratio.
Well it is not that they want to do a car like this but at some point they will need to do a car like this. They do not need it today as they have other much more profitable things to chase first.
But with the growing segment and the fact in many countries and states the emissions will really push them to these models like it or not.
They will need to do it right and I am sure GM will never fall into the Caviler mold again as they have learned a harsh lesson there.
The Germans said for years nothing but Das RWD. Well here we are today. They know what is coming and are preparing for it. Also you have generations of people who think they have to have FWD or they will die if we get frost. That is what they want and that is what they will build.
The long and short of it is GM has Buick for now to catch much of this segment where Benz and BMW has nothing. Cadillac has bigger profit fish to fry in the much higher profit CUV market right now.
I am undecided.
On one hand I see the packaging and business case for FWD but on the other hand RWD would continue Cadillac’s growing reputation of putting out world class sedans plus differentiate it from the majority of it’s competitors.
I rather for Cadillac to work on CUVs first, which they are, and then they can work on the baby Cadillac.
IMO, I think according to videos, that GM had figured out how to put more rear seat space for the potential baby Cadillac. So, IMO, the Cadillac successor models to the CTS and ATS rear seat space and hopefully trunk space too could surpass the competitors in the current and next generation segments in packaging volume. And I don’t think it is an impossible feat because engineers are always finding new ways to make packaging or advancement in design and technology better with time. Look at the CT6 as an example, a large sedan that weighs less than the 5 Series and E Class.
Can someone name one premium, compact, RWD 4 door sedan (smaller than the ATS) currently on the market? With usable space in the rear? I can’t think of any, because the combination is very difficult.
I don’t know… there are a lot of A3’s and CLA’s driving around in Toronto.
A car this small needs to be fwd! Leave the fun stuff to drive to the big boys with fat wallets. I never understood why people feel they deserve a fast fun car to drive that is cheap? Fast cars are not supposed to be cheap! They are supposed to be exclusive and hard to attain! That’s why people grow up and buy them, because they couldn’t afford them when they were younger.
This idea that there needs to be a area in the back seat the people can stretch out like it’s a suburban needs to stop. Discounting a great car because it has 1 inch less leg room is just dumb!
People need to stop worrying about how much space is in the back seat, and focus more on the rest of the car!
I have driven both the CLA and the A3 and both were awesome, very quick and roomy. There is nothing cheap about a CLA with the AMG trim package. Caddy would be smart to look into this segement.
Where there’s a will there’s a way. They just need to decide they are going into that market and design and engineer it properly with enough space for passengers and cargo. Otherwise the alternative is FWD and it can be done as well. They need to learn from the past and not repeat the mistakes of the J car etc.