Everyone here at GM Authority was a bit fired up yesterday after hearing Cadillac has reportedly scrapped its CT8 sedan. The CT8 was destined to be the brand’s true flagship sedan with an even longer wheelbase, more spacious innards and plentiful luxury.
Our first reaction was along the lines of “how could Cadillac do this?” But, maybe it’s a smart move after all. We’ve had no true explanation of the move yet, but we can bet it’s because crossovers and SUVs are becoming more of the norm in the marketplace. Cadillac could clearly see this, General Motors knows it and the industry at large is starting to believe it.
Dumping investment dollars at a project that would likely not reach many consumers in the long run could be some savvy business strategy.
However, flagships aren’t a one-trick pony. The CT8 could have been Cadillac’s brand ambassador, the vehicle to aspire towards. Flagships have a tendency to do just that, and Mercedes-Benz has perfected the strategy. Everyone who stares at an S-Class’ window sticker immediately sweats profusely and steps into a CLA instead. Why? Because they want the badge associated with the S-Class, minus the sticker shock.
The CT8 probably wouldn’t have been enough to really steal sales from Mercedes-Benz, but it seems to be a miscalculated branding move. A crossover will never have the swagger a big luxury sedan does.
We’re ready to turn it to you now. Talk to us down below, and vote in the poll on if Cadillac has made smart choices, or unintelligent mistakes.
Comments
You need too soon to tell.
For one is it really canceled yet? GM has not made a statement yet.
Second what is GM going to provide in place of this car? To make a real judgment and informed opinion we need more info.
If they just replace it with a much more expensive Escalade then it may not be a good idea. Now if they replace it with a sporty Cayenne like SUV with much less weight then it could be a very interesting and profitable choice.
I am sure we will get many over reactions here and they may be right in the end but lets just see what their plans are before we go off the deep end here.
A Cayenne competitor that is 4500-4800 pounds with a TT DOHC V8 and maybe electric hybrid system may be interesting seeing as the Cayenne is 6,000 pounds and Benz and BMW really have no answer for this kind of vehicle yet.
You know something, I agree with scott3 here. I think it’s best to hear the final say-so from GM, and if the news proves to be true regarding the axing of the CT8, then perhaps it “could” mean that Cadillac has an ace up its sleeve in the form of a lightweight, dynamic, sporty, RWD CUV. And hopefully this’ll lead to a full lineup of RWD-based CUVs, which I believe could be quite interesting! We simply can’t deny the profitability of the CUV and SUV market!
However, the lack of a genuine flagship sedan would still leave Cadillac lacking in comparison to the competition! As others have pointed out, the Germans are investing quite a bit into the segment because they see the potential for strong profitability! They have a strong and loyal customer base that’s willing and ready to drop top dollars on their products! And with Cadillac potentially foregoing a competitive flagship sedan, a vehicle that’ll create loads of cache and appeal for the brand, who’s to say they can confidently and legitimately provide a Cayenne competitor?! This company recently came out and touted the flexibility of the C1XX, FWD platform! Which suggests Cadillac is not currently planning to compete with the Cayenne!
It’s not officially cancelled till Cadillac puts out a press statement saying it is . This is just a rumor right now . There have been rumors of the cancellation of Cadillac’s flagship before .
The CT7/CT8 program HAS NOT BEEN CANCELLED. It is on schedule but GM/Cadillac has given top priority to CUV/SUV production….
I could understand if this was in the value brand full size segment like avalon, azera, taurus, impala etc. Correct me if im wrong but i dont think the flagship luxury sedan segment has shrinked all that much if any. Profits are huge in this segment and it shows all the engineering prowess and technology of said luxury automaker.
Maybe the CT6 is all they really need if it gets a LWB version and a lavish interior when its time for the MCE around 2019. Its already the best looking out of all the flagships IMO. I could understand if they went that route.
Time will tell. Hopefully is this rumor holds water it means that the Escalade would move upmarket and have standalone platform rather than a supped up Tahoe. Also a true RWD midsize SUV would be in the cards i hope.
We all need to keep in mind this is a profit-making venture. The $12 Billion investment in Cadillac is not a gift from GM, but an investment with an expected return. Yes, the profit margins on Cadillac cars are attractive, but the total profit picture on Cadillac SUVs & CUVs may be more attractive. The money needs to be spent where the total return is the highest.
This may not be what we want to hear, but that is how profit-making businesses are supposed to operate.
You are so correct!
One has to consider just what kind of vehicle would more easily sell for Cadillac and what would return more profit at modest volume.
Just look at their numbers now and see what is their most expensive best seller.
The thing is Cadillacs needs and abilities are not the same as the German so their path may take a different route.
It doesn’t make sense from a profit standpoint for only one vehicle to be built on the Omega platform .
That is exactly why I am not ready to close the book on the CT8 just yet. Why spend so much money to only do one vehicle.
You could argue that the Omega costs just as much the Alpha to design, engineer and validate and GM had to put the ATS, CTS and Camaro on the chassis to make a good business case for it’s production.
Something else has to be coming from the Omega.
I heard CT7 is coming and some speculated it as being a four door coupe thru some Cadillac forums.
Can’t say for sure if it is a formal traditional coupe or a four-door coupe type model.
I have a strong feeling that CUVs and SUVs are going to sevearly out sell coupes and sedans…Sedans are not hot anymore.
If cadillac will not forget the development of that car CT8 later, I see very well.
First make cars that sell well and increases profits and image, and later develops large luxury sedans how this CT8, it is early to the risk of high luxury sedan.
But if Cadillac decides to never make the CT8 to focus on SUV CUV, I do not like the idea so much
Automobile just asked a Cadillac rep about this and thier response was “for now the CT6 is at the top, but not the end of our dreams. We have 11 vehicles coming by 2020 but we cannot talk about them yet”. This is the same verbage we have been hearing for over a year now. Also the road and track story had good sources that claimed the CT9 was being developed. Now I can’t see Cadillac going from the 50k to 80k CT6 to a 300K CT9. I said it before and will say it again, there is something just not right with this story. For one thing, it could be argued that the possible CT8 even though not confirmed, was stealing some of the CT6.s thunder and GM wanted that to stop to make sure it would not slow CT6s sales. Lets face it, as soon as Cadillac stated there would be a car above the CT6, we all said, great lets wait and see what that is like.
Links or it didn’t happen.
Here’s your link just scroll down a bit at their site and you will find the story .http://www.automobilemag.com/news
That’s *slightly* more encouraging.
I think this rumor was started to get people more interested in the CT6 and to take potential buyers focus off of the upcoming Flagship.
Maybe they cancelled the CT8 so they can build a $200k flagship by 2025 and have a $300k vehicle by 2030….the $200k vehicle in 2025 instead of a low volume CT8 in 2020….Maybe they can find a way to build a large CUV that has the same swagger as a large luxury sadan….a compact CUV has more interior and cargo volume than a mid-sized sedan….Crossovers are better.
I’m a Cadillac enthusiast from Sweden, and think it would be a loss rather than a gain to
drop the flagship sedan ! : (
Perhaps Cadillac should build the often rumored “sub-ATS” model sedan, a new smaller XT5.2 SUV, and build on an upward bound youth cliental ready to think about a $100K limo in about 10 years.
Not that big a deal… The shift towards CUV/SUV appears permanent. Besides, the CT6 is the same as a short wheelbase A8/S Class/7 Series…just make the next one more luxurious and longer if that’s where the market wants to go.
a sub-compact sedan is so f***cking lame.
Seriously don’t judge it till iyou see it in the flesh
I am ok with postponing it until they get all their ducks in a row. To cancel it altogether I think would be a huge mistake. With all the rumors out there you don’t know what to believe. I find it hard to believe that they would cancel the CT8 which would sell in the $100,000 thru $ 200,000 range and build a $ 300,000 vehicle.
Considering all the past delays the CT6 had and rumors of its cancellation I take these flagship rumors with a grain of salt .
Sedans have no business to exest in the future
I did not like the wording of the poll so I did not vote.
IMO, I think we are getting excited over nothing since this story is not concrete yet. JDN said that they were not quite sure what role the CT8 would be if it be a traditional large premium sedan or a four door convertible.
And by the sound from Automobile Magazine, I am not convinced that CT8 is cancelled.
Remember when JDN said that there will be no long wheelbase versions of any car in Autonew.com? I am renouncing from yesterday of what I read today that the CT8 project is on but Cadillac did not specifically state how it will represent Cadillac as a direct target towards the S Class or something totally different from the S Class.
Foolish decision for two main reasons:
1. Grandiose sedans and coupes are historically Cadillac’s calling card. When people bemoan Cadillac’s “trying to be German”, I don’t think the pursuit of performance is their real issue. I think what it boils down to is size, opulence, and attention to detail. Today’s Caddys are some of the smaller entries in their segments, especially the ATS. I think enthusiasts, bloggers, and journalists are doing a very poor job articulating that small, light, and simple are best left to BMW. Cadillac has BMW-fighters in the compact segment. Cadillac could be making a big, opulent Benz-beater that Cadillac USED TO MAKE.
2. The expensive Omega platform now only has one application.
I had this nightmare that Pontiac, Saturn and Hummer were axed…..then it continued to be bad, there was this cool looking Buick concept car called an Avista and GM said not gonna see daylight….It continued where there were plans to build a big flagship sedan from Cadillac on a new Omega platform- it was to be called the CT8 and it too got cancelled…..this was all a bad dream, right?
Unless the ct8 was electric this is a good idea. Tesla is beating the competition and trying to come in with a normal car in a now smaller market is asking for trouble.
I will concede it MAY be an OKAY idea in the short term.
In the long-term however, I think it will jeopardize Cadillac’s ability to cultivate the image it is attempting to create for itself.
I say this as an owner of a 2016 7-Series. I mention that, not to brag, but to provide some perspective. I was very keen on the CT6, but it is simply not good enough to warrant my attention, when I could get a 7-Series or S-Class instead; however, I was always very positive about the future potential CT8 as the next purchase. Now, there is nothing.
If this story is true, Cadillac will not be competing in the high-end tier where it claims to want to participate. If you say you want to compete with the best in the world, small 3-Series fighters, while important, can only take you so far. One day, you have to get in the ring with the heavyweights, and chickening out or deciding it’s not in your best interest is a defeat by default.
Look at Infiniti and Acura. Neither of them have anything that makes anyone take notice of them. Yes, the ILX and Q50 are decent cars in their segment, and they pay the bills, but they don’t move them in to a higher class of consideration (maybe the NSX will help address this). Audi was in a similar boat for a long time, and while the A8 and R8 may still not be sales leaders, they have moved the Audi brand as a whole, up a peg.
So yes, it might be an okay decision for the business, it is a questionable decision for the brand.
After all, if this is story is true, maybe Cadillac should change their ad slogan:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-ct6-forum/379722-first-ct6-test-drive-impressions-7761.jpg
Hopefully they Come up with
1- coupe or sport coupe
2- sleek Sedan something like the CLS
3- c7 based sport car
4- suv smaller than the Escalade
Cadillac has to go where the market is and at the moment it’s CUV; although a 2-door coupe variant of the CT6 Hybrid with electric motors capable of matching Tesla’s Model S and Ludicrous mode acceleration would be sweet.
Well if they want to pull out from what they have been yapping about all this time, i.e. competing with Mercedes/BMW, then sure, it’s probably a smart decision. But if not, it’s a pretty dumb one. You cannot compete with Mercedes and not have anything that compares to S Class.
The story on GM Inside News – linked by the Automobile link above – is great news to me.
I’ll assume most of you have seen “It’s A Wonderful Life”. Remember the scene where Sam Wainwright drives up to a house christening that the Baileys are having for the Martinis in Bailey Park? Notice the car in which Wainwright was chauffered?
It was a Cadillac.
The marque once offered models to compete with Packard, Duesenberg, Bentley and Rolls-Royce. As late as 1965, comparison tests ranked Cadillac’s finest as on par with, if not superior to, Rolls-Royce.
Within two years, Cadillac Motor Division decided to chase market share…a fateful decision on so many levels, not the least of which, was destroying the exclusivity that was part-and-parcel of the brand’s aspirational nature. Within just a few years, the fact that Caddies were becoming “more common” drove the shift to Mercedes as much as Cadillac’s declining quality did.
If GM will “Dare Greatly” enough to play in that upper-crust sandbox once again – and play to win with a strategy that places the benefits of long-term profitability thru brand enhancement over short-term short cuts – I think the halo effect will help drive sales of the other Cadillac lines…and maybe, over time, benefit all GM lines.
Bottom line…the profitability of the proposed top-end models lies just as much in its ability to drive sales of lesser Cadillac models, as it would in its own sales.
Just like as mentioned in one of these links above, someone will pine for an S-Class at the local Mercedes store, knowing they can’t afford it…but drive away happy in an A or C-Class.
I think a shooting brake type sedan/cuv/suv type of vehicle. I am seeing high hp with the 10 speed auto attached
Over 54% of the people that took the survey think it’s a mistake and a missed opportunity . And I am one of those people . Cadillac needed that car to help restore their image . We see in some of GM’s latest concepts ( mainly Buick ) what the companies designers can do and the technology that exists .
I realize that the truck and CUV market is hot right now , but other automakers haven’t stopped building sedans to only focus on this segment . If anything they have just added to their product lines . Shouldn’t Cadillac be building from the top down . With the knowledge that the car wouldn’t be for the every man . They have done it before and it worked , there is no reason to believe that it is still the best way to show your future customers what they can build .
What is most concerning is how much time and resources have been wasted . Why was the decision made to pull the plug now ? The question is if there wasn’t enough capital allocated to do all the things the division wants to do.
Now all the manpower that was associated with the CT8 can move into getting the other SUV’s to market a bit sooner . Cadillac is missing out on the SUV craze . That is where they are focused on . And they are playing catch-up .
I checked MediaOnline which is GM’s corporate news site and there is NO mention of the CT8’s demise . Just their earnings for Q1 which was good and Chevy going 11 months of sales gains and their chief designer is retiring in July after 40+ years with GM .
So , I guess until this news is confirmed by the Corporation , we should all wait to see if it is infact true before we condemn Cadillac . I think we all just want to see Cadillac succeed . Just my $0.02 .
Sedans are old people’s cars and thay are cramped tuna cans on wheels that are too low to the ground ….I think sedans should burn in the fire.
It’s a smart decision because Cadillac knows best they can never compete with the true luxury car brands from Germany.
Cadillac is a second tier brand, so ct6 is the best they can do.
And the stories about a 2 or 300.000 dollar car are a big JOKE.
Do people really believe they can compete with Bentley and RR? while they can’t even build a S class competitor?
Exactly…Cadillac shouldn’t chase the Germans….Cadillac needs to focus on building attractive vehicles and just be Cadillac…plus build vehicles that will actually sell like very attractive CUVs and stop building coupes and sedans because there are a dying breed and they are not selling well.