Upon first glance, we are most definitely impressed with all-new, 2017 Buick LaCrosse. But the more we think about it, the more we wonder about a more sporty variant of the full-size sedan. Let’s call it the LaCrosse GS for the sake of our discussion here.
Of course, whether GM and Buick would bring such a model to market depends on many factors, the most vital of which is whether a business case can be made for the variant, which brings us to how a supposed LaCrosse GS could come to market. So, here is the equipment and features our fictitious LaCrosse GS would contain:
Drivetrain
The standard (and only) engine — the 3.6L V6 LGX — is rated at 306 horses and 268 pound-feet of torque. So, we could see the new 3.0-liter twin-turbo V6 LGW in a sideways application making somewhere in the vicinity of 400 horsepower and 370 pound-feet of torque — fairly respectable numbers, if you ask us. In fact, the power figures are similar to those of the Cadillac XTS V-Sport and its 3.6-liter twin-turbo LF3 engine, which is rated at 410 horses and 369 pound-feet of twist.
From there, the LaCrosse GS will need a more robust transmission to handle the extra power, which we envision will be funneled to the wheels through the new LaCrosse’s fancy and intelligent twin-clutch all-wheel-drive system.
We’d like to also see hear a noticeable yet refined exhaust note that’s heard from the outside as well as in the cabin. The LGW 3.0L TT V6 should help bring this particular wish to fruition.
Chassis & Suspension
Our imaginary LaCrosse GS won’t just be all engine. To the contrary, we envision a highly capable sport suspension by way of various hardware upgrades, along with a new Sport/Performance setting in the Continuous Damping Control system that’s already available on the non-GS LaCrosse.
We’d also like to see potent Brembo brakes (Brembo brake pads and GM’s Duralife rotors) for confident stopping power in the full-size sedan. A set of colored calipers would make for a nice touch.
Exterior
Those who have seen the new LaCrosse in person will likely agree that its exterior design is very elegant and refined. That’s a good thing, since adding some aggressive bits would make the car look even better to those who appreciate such a thing.
We can see an aggressive front end treatment with an assertive grille and intakes, in the general direction of the Regal GS. Moreover, our fictive Buick LaCrosse GS would also wear a set of sporty 20-inch wheels while the rear end would house a sporty lower rear fascia with a prominent dual exhaust setup.
Interior
Inside, our hearts desire a set of sporty (not the extreme kind) Recaro front seats, a flat-bottom steering wheel with paddles, alloy-covered pedals, along with an option for contrasting stitching on the steering wheel, shifter, and perhaps other interior bits. More aggressive gauge clusters with the GS logo would make for a nice touch.
And So…
All in all, a GS variant of the third-generation Buick LaCrosse is not as much of a pipe dream as it may seem at first. Come to think of it, such a vehicle would serve as a spiritual successor to the Cadillac XTS V-Sport, which will be discontinued, along with the entire XTS lineup in the next few years or so.
The real question, then, is whether GM and Buick will decide to bring a LaCrosse GS to market. And if they do, then it will likely contain the elements we outlined above. But until that time comes, we’ll continue dreaming.
Now, sound off in the comments with your thoughts on a high-performance variant of the third-gen LaCrosse, keeping in mind that a new Buick Grand National and/or GNX are not in the cards.
Comments
Using a bigger and more powerful gas engine is the old approach to getting higher performance as GM’s VP of Global Propulsion (Dan Nicholson) would tell you the right approach would to replace the 3.6L DOHC-4v V6 with the LTG 265 horsepower 2.0L DOHC-4v 4-cyl Turbo and then matching it with a hybrid module featuring (2) 75 horsepower electric motors that would give a combine total output of 415 horsepower and on hard acceleration, the 150 hp electric motors would kick in with the 265 hp for acceleration better than if the LeCrosse GS was powered by LGW 404 hp twin-turbo 3.0L V6 or LF3 410 hp twin-turbo V6 engines while still getting fuel mileage of over 40 mpg.
“Using a bigger and more powerful gas engine is the old approach to getting higher performance”…
The caveat here is that this “approach” only applies to some vehicles. Not sure the LaX is it.
This was all but confirmed with the announcement that the XTS would be discontinued.
The problem is that LaCrosse owners will be easily lured by CPO XTS’s for years to come. It’s unlikely GM can do much about that… you can get a very-reliable DTS (with an even more reliable V6) for a few grand today.
GM is going to have to put a rear bias off the line on its E2XX AWD array if it wants to discourage people from buying older/used. Dropping the same TTV6 in, and a selectable comfort setting, won’t beat XTS VSport’s MagnaRide on the high-end, and MagnaRide Northstar’s on the DTS side of the used spectrum. And without rear-bias software on Haldex, don’t even think about drawing customers from Audi or Porsche on this one.
The new LaCrosse is ditching the Haldex units for the GKN unit like the one found in the Ford Focus RS. I wish GNK came out with one that allows the driver to toggle on the rear bias.
If the GS variant gets the LGW, it will be evenly matched with the Lincoln Continental, which also has a GKN drivetrain. In that case, I’d love to see the comparison test. The doctor’s hot rod vs. the deacon’s spaceship lol
I think that GM would benefit from a little competitive bidding on that one. What better way to differentiate the GS than with its own unique AWD system. If Haldex wants GM’s business back, do what GKN won’t… or can’t.
If GM goes that route, the end result is better for all of us GM fans. A torqey AWD Buick? What better to represent Buick/Oldsmobile heritage?
Interestingly a version of high performance at the Buick. With the official engine perfectly for Impala SS and Malibu, Equinox and Envision. In 2 versions 350 Hp or 400 Hp . Sport stiffer suspension lowered 1 inch . High Performance brakes . Wheels 20″
Easy to build hard to price.
I would love to see this kind of car come to market but here is where it gets tough.
How many do you plan to sell, how much will it cost and how much money is to be made once you cover expenses?
This is what kills many of these plans . Work out the numbers and you can build a car like this. Miss on these numbers and you end up with a Chevy SS that under performs on sales in the market. It is an example of a great car that just is not fitting in.
We have kind of seen the same thing with the Regal. While they have tried to contented it some from the Opel OPC version it has not done as well at the $42K mark as I had hoped. While many wanted the OPC version V6 the $60K price for sure was more than the American Market would bear.
There are just so many good cars that could be build but you just have to make the numbers work.
To be fair cars like the SS and GS both to me were under marketed too.
But in the end Content is half the challenge.
It’s not that “hard”.
The business case for such a vehicle at a price point in the mid-$40,000 and at low volumes exists primarily due to:
1. Economies of scale for GM as a whole
2. Longer life cycles for GM’s new platforms
3. Little sunk costs for development but rather variable costs on the content side, which pay for themselves with high margin
Ultimately, it is not that difficult to do and nowhere close to impossible *as long as* it is released at the beginning of the model’s lifecycle, so as to maximize time of possible return.
And that’s not to mention the image-based benefits for Buick as a brand, much like the Regal GS.
You do understand that the new car will be close to that price for just the average model.
You do realize the next Regal GS even prices as the old one was will be $42K and I expect it to be more expensive in the new model.
The old model selling now with AWD and not even loaded is stickered at $44-45K now. Even with discounts the local dealers are asking $42K.
I think we can agree to that the new car is not going to get cheaper either.
Here is the deal you can tell me all day it is going to be cheaper but lets make it interesting. Lets take some real numbers and I know the pricing on the new Lacrosse is not final but you can use numbers with the expected percentage of increase.
Then lets take production numbers. I wager sales may be around the present GS or lower.
The problem is you have underestimated the price based on numbers from today’s car alone. We already enjoy economy of scale and volume here may be 5K units at best.
Life cycles for the platform may be long but that does not mean the car will see major changes every couple years.
The cost to do this car will be based on if you want to do it right or not. If you want to just slap the engine in you have the cost of the higher priced engine but GM no longer works that way. There would be much higher cost in brakes and suspension. This adds to cost in time and materials alone. A good brake package can be an additional $800 to a grand alone.
In this price segment you can not half ass these cars and you need a complete package.
Bases on the present cars prices and just the price of the better parts I suspect you would be closer to $50,000 before you finished with the new car. Heck the tires anymore can add a grand to the price alone unless you go with some low buck performance tires that is out dated as GM has on some cars in the past.
I would like to see what your pricing will be once they announce the price for the new car. Keep in mind you would take the most expensive model in AWD and add at least $4K-$5K
Then how would you fit this in with pricing of other cars? For $50K a lot of other options come into play.
Don’t get me wrong here I would love to see a true performance version of this car but knowing what I do on how business cases are made and fitting pricing in it really is not all that easy.
I still think a better Regal performance model may be the best way to go. You can knock off a little more money that way and you would have a better chance of selling it in Europe.
A GS would not sell in China well. Now if they offer this as a Holden that could be a help to volume. But will it become a Holden let alone an Opel?
I think your answer is all ready in front of you. There was nothing with the present model that could not have been used to make a GS Lacrosse on what we have had. They teased with some sport models as concepts but they were killed in the business case level.
Remember the Lacrosse Show car in the dark red with the GS wheels and other special tuning. Killer looking car. It could not make the business case. A shame as it was very well received.
I wish you could sit down with a head of one of the model platforms and hear what all has to go into getting a program approved. I have been lucky to know several and have much of this explained to me. This is the kind of stuff I wish more could listen to as it is very eye opening.
The bottom line building a car and getting it approved is far more difficult than I ever imagined and many on the web even imagine.
Now that is on an car we have now. You add this kind of process to a car like the Avista where it is not even close to production and the challenge can be X4.
Nothing is impossible as the last Z/28 has shown but the degree of difficulty can rise fast.
The best way to get a program approved like this is to have some high placed people Like Mark Reuss that will champion it at the top level relentlessly. While he supports much not everything he wants gets approved. But at least we have a VP willing to fight for them as passionately as Bob Lutz did for his cars.
Anyways I would like to see you post up numbers real numbers on this. You will find fast $45K on the new car would be a major challenge. When I mean numbers I would like prices on options and added equipment the price of the car and how many do you expect to sell. Now base this on the volumes of other performance models. Keeping in mind it would be around 10% of volume or less.
FYI I am not trying to be tough on you. I just want you to make a better case with numbers that could be backed up. Businesses are run on numbers and that is how things get approved or not in the end.
I fully agree with the image and improve opinion of Buick but that generally is not enough.
If anything if you can make numbers that really work it will only sharpen you case.
In other word I want you to succeed here.
By the way when you add up the parts like brakes and tires we need to know the price and just what kind of and size of brakes and tires. The prices generally are all over as is the quality. How good are your thinking will be represented in price.
Scott — pricing has yet to be announced so it’s a bit of a guessing game right now. That said, the mid-tier (Premium I or Premium II) Gen 3 laX will likely be in the low $40,000s. A starting price for a LaX GS in the mid-$40,000s (as I mentioned earlier) doesn’t seem like a big stretch.
But then you write this:
“Businesses are run on numbers and that is how things get approved or not in the end.”
As much of a plebeian and oversimplified statement as it is, yes — business are, indeed, run on numbers. And having worked at GM in the recent past, I am quite familiar with how decisions are made at the company. And I am more than familiar with how “businesses are run” in general.
So, I’d love to have an educated dialogue with you about this subject, but when you come out with statements like the above, it makes it difficult to take you seriously.
If you are so informed you could work numbers based off the present model with the normal increases we see in price. Say 10%-12%.
Then take the most expensive model of the Lacrosse offered now. Add your price increase and add the estimate cost of all the performance features you plan to include. Things like the added cost of a 3.0 turbo or an even better AWD system with vectoring. What kind of tires? Do you spend more for the better Pilots or do you cheap out and give up performance for a cheaper older Pilot? How about brakes how good do you want or should I say how much do you want to spend for?
Now after you figure out all of this then how many are you going to really sell. You could base it on the SVO or similar cars in price range segment.
Do you want to price and option this with the SVO or say an Audi. What is your target?
Will this car also be sold in China? How about as an Opel? Or even Holden or are we only going to sell 5-6K units here.
Alex sorry but I am calling your bluff. You can say you worked for GM all day but I am not going to let you off by saying it would be easy. Prove it!
It is not BS if you can back it up.
I know lots of people who work at GM yet. They have not had to resort to writing on the web and from what they had shared there is a hell of a lot to consider and a lot more that goes into making a business case to get it approved. A lot of good ideas die as the numbers are just not there in some area be it cost, volume or the ability to compete in a specific segment.
The point is I want you to prove me wrong with some realistic estimated data.
I will start you off. You can take the top tier Lacrosse we have now at S45K-$46K sticker.
You can add 7% increase for the new car on the new platform.
Now give us a parts list of all the changes you want to put in and price them.
Then sticker price the car.
Then map out the volume and what markets will share this car. As of now I have not heard of it anywhere but here and China. Will China take to this car as it is not their normal taste?
Would Opel and Holden want it even if they have their own performance models planned for the new Insignia they are already working on?
Will you get this in before $50K comes or not. How about the new Regal GS. It may be going up in price too with better options and with a 7% increase. No more last year discounts so it would start at the $42K a loaded GM as at last year. Where do you fit this car in?
Alex it is hard to take you seriously when you come up with a good idea but have no substance to back it up by just saying oh it is easy and I used to work at GM.
If you have knowledge than share it as of now you talk but say so little.
Again not trying to be hard on you but if you hold this knowledge than give us the details and tech all of us what you know.
Funny if this is so easy then how did the last Lacrosse sport package that was well received go no where with the business case? With leadership from people like Mark now in charge if there was a hint of good profits he would have been all over this. The package they had was now a complicated one at that. Mostly Suspension, Wheels and Trim.
The bottom line is great ideas are easy to come by. Getting them approved for production is damn hard to do when you do not sell 20K units of said version.
Also you need to factor in would the sales of this car hurt the Regal GS or would the Regal GS hurt the sales of this car?
When you are in charge and you make the wrong call and either make little money or lose money is a choice like this worth risking you job over. Like many companies your status with the company is only as good as your track record. If it is poor you could be someone that worked for GM.
Another “hot” Buick, (like the GNX, GS, and other performance Buicks in the past) would certainly lure younger folks into the showroom! Once in there, not only would they have available the GS variety of Regals (and then Lacrosse) they now have nice Envision option as well as the Cascada Convertible, both of
which are really good looking, youthful cars!
I enjoyed the Lacrosse GS concept idea and attention to detail. Either a TTC 3.6 or 3.0 Liter engine along with a high performance sport suspension and brakes would greatly induce me to purchase a Lacrosse. Unfortunately GM’s senior management has shown limited interest in building high performance Buicks. They seem more attuned to building nice, non controversial, middle of the road vehicles.
Personally, I think the Buick Avista (2- or 4-door coupe) is what I’d rather see in production.
2nd gen LaCrosse spans 7 model years (2010-2016), and it never got something beyond naturally aspirated 3.6 LLT (2010-2011) and then LFX (2012-2016). Despite looking streamlined and nice, especially for 2009, when its sales started. Its 0-60 is still around 7 seconds at best with 3.6, after all those years, which is totally OK, but not really sporty (unlike its competitors, e.g. Taurus SHO or MKS with upper V6 EcoBoost engine).
I strongly believe, same thing exactly will happen with 3rd gen LaCrosse – it won’t get anything beyond new 3.6 LGX or its refreshed version several years later on. Why? Because otherwise it may cannibalize already-relatively-weak Cadillac sedans sales (which are long in the tooth with their “Art and Science” design which, with sharp and angular looks, actually look more like a Star Wars vehicle than a luxury car from Earth like e.g. MB). Period.
This all is pretty much obvious to anybody who has a feel of how GM positions and sells Buick and Cadillac, so why waste time writing up your dreams here?
BTW, I’m driving 2010 2nd gen LaCrosse myself, so, no, I’m not trolling against GM here.
I just want to add to my own comment, that, for LaCrosse target audience, new 3.6 LGX with 8 speed automatic should be enough, taking into account the fact, that 3rd gen LaCrosse will have its weight greatly reduced. This should lead to around 6.5 second 0-60 time (or maybe even better). This is, for instance, way better than what previous Dodge Charger (2006-2010) with Chrysler old 3.5 V6 SOHC engine provided – that was only around 8 seconds and still was considered “sorta muscle car” sedan several years ago. So, 3.6 LGX + 8 speed auto is clearly good enough for 3rd gen LaCrosse in terms of everyday life driving and even for hasty highway merging, I believe. After all, 80% of the vehicles you daily encounter on the road or any highway would be slower than 6.5 from 0 to 60.
Cadillac needs new styling…they won’t build the Avenir because it would be a big threat to Cadillac…sad….they are holding back Buick for the sake of Cadillacs long in the tooth Art & Science design.
Disagree. Cadillac does not need “new styling”. It needs to do better against its rivals in every segment on a value and feature-by-feature basis, which still isn’t the case today. As I have mentioned in other threads rye, Cadillac’s current styling has very little impact on people making decisions AGAINST buying a Cadillac. Instead, they’re making decisions against buying a Cadillac based on lack of awareness, weakness of the Cadillac brand (not enough “cool” and “hip” status), and lack of value (can get a BMW, MBZ, or Audi for roughly the same price).
And you are incorrect about anyone “holding Buick back”. For the most part, Buick can now make its own decisions… and an Avista, as cool as it is, would not be a good decision as it would be a loss-making venture given low sales figures.
Please stop to think about your opinions and consider the bigger picture (competitive environment, consumer behavior, cost-to-benefit tradeoff) before spreading the same untrue opinions all over the place.
Finally, I have said it before and said it again: there is NOTHING wrong with Cadillac’s current styling/design language. This is not my opinion. This is fact with real consumer behavior/clinical data behind it.
Cadillac’s styling is currently its single biggest advantage, since it is remarkably different than what is offered by the competition (with the exception of Lexus, which actually is starting to beat Cadillac in terms of mind share and uniqueness). I hope this resonates with you.
The best way to state this is they do not need new styling but they need to let it to continue to evolve to where it hits the sweet spot.
Tight now you can see some of the evolution in the CTS to the CT6. They just need to continue to refine it and they will get to where it needs to be.
They have a look of no other model out there but there are still elements that work and some elements that do not work.
The hard edges are not aging well and the market is going softer with all models.
Design is a living element and you need to let it grow and move to where it needs to be. You do not toss out what you have just make it better.
But Alex you are correct No one is holding Buick back. The fact is coupes are a hard sell today.
Also you are correct Cadillac has its own look and is well vested in it. Like a sculptor they just need to continue to chip away and move it forward not replace it.
I think we can see the direction they are moving to with the show cars and we should see more of it in future models.
Alex I may be hard on you at times but I also agree wit much of what you say too. I will give you credit where you deserve it Plus one to you.
Cadillacs current Art & Science theme….equals = boring and bland.
The segment does not accept styling too far out of the norm.
To be honest the segment thrives on much of the same over and over. BMW seldom changes much and Benz is the most copied styling by the others.
Those who step to far from the norm return back due to sales lack of sales response.
It will be interesting to see where Johann goes from here. We have yet to see his vision styling wise yet.
no doubt, BMW has been redundant as hell!
I also think Cadillac is being a little too redundant with its Art & Science theme….the CT6 has the same beltline as the 2003 CTS… but watered down.
all Cadillac needs to do is level the beltline….and not have down sloped…if so there would be a much bolder look like the Elmeraj.