Roughly a year ago, Cadillac President, Johan de Nysschen, revealed that the sport-luxury brand will introduce a twin-turbo V8 engine some time in the future. Outside of that confirmation, however, details have been scarce. Until now.
Car and Driver picked de Nysschen’s brain, who revealed the first basic details on what to expect from the upcoming Cadillac Turbo V8. Foremost, it will displace 4.2 liters and be paired to two turbochargers. Though it will be a mighty 4.2-liter twin-turbo V8, de Nysschen clarified that all-out performance will not be the goal for the powerplant. In fact, the motor is not even being considered a V-series engine.
The other big detail is that the upcoming Cadillac 4.2-liter V8 will share nothing with General Motors’ current family of small-block engines. More specifically, it will in no way be related to the LT4 V8 found in the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, making it the first V8 motor exclusive to Cadillac since the Northstar V8, which was discontinued in 2010. As such, it sounds like the new motor will, in fact, be a dual-overhead cam (DOHC) setup rather than the push-rod layout of the LT4.
When Cadillac’s new 4.2-liter V8 launches, it will first be found under the hood of the Cadillac CT6, likely in the Platinum or CT6 V-Sport models wearing a 4.2TT badge, with de Nysschen noting that a true CT6-V might not be in the cards. We’ll speculate that power figures will likely stretch well beyond 400 horsepower, as the new twin-turbo LGW V6 delivers that much punch from 3.0 liters of displacement and six cylinders. As such, Caddy’s new 4.2-liter turbo V8 will likely be rated closer to the 500 horsepower mark, with de Nysschen saying that power will likely be “in the upper 400s”. Those ponies will most likely be sent through GM’s familiar eight-speed automatic 8L90 or upcoming all-new ten-speed auto, though a more advanced dual-clutch gearbox could be possible.
Comments
This is great news. Exclusive platforms and powertrains is what Cadillac needs to compete with the leaders in the luxury segment.
The C&D article mentioned quoted JdN as saying power figures would be in “in the upper 400s,”. Since the 3.0TT is slated to make 400hp then it would make sense that the 4.2TT would make close to 500hp.
I have seen comments where people are questioning spending the development dollars for a new engine instead of using the 6.2V8 LT1 because it is lighter, lower centre of gravity, good power and gets good fuel economy. As good as that motor is it is not viewed as a premium or technologically advanced engine.
If Cadillac is to capture new clients, especially in the higher $100K+ price range, perception is everything.
If I cross my fingers, toes and eyes maybe Cadillac will use the 4.2TT as the next ATS-V motor.
Could also see it as an optional engine for the Escalade.
This 4.2TT may not fit into ATS, because of its size.
I understand that a DOHC design is taller, heavier and more top heavy than a small block but I thought the ATS was designed to hold a V8.
I would speculate you are correct for a couple of reasons. First, what you stated as the alpha platform is used in the new Camaro and CTS-V hold a V8 so longitudinally a 4.2TT should fit. Secondly, the 3.6TT is currently in production so no issues on the motors width due to DOHC+TT’s mounted directly to the head/manifold.
Isn’t it ironic how we worry about engine weight when we actually see narrower front tires used because of the reduced weight thanks to aluminum? The base vette only has 245’s up front where the Z06 has 285’s so if the 4.2TT used 265-285’s there should be no weight related handling issue’s, IMHO. Hell, I’ve got 275’s up front on my C4 with an iron block and she grips no problem. Can’t imagine that an extra 100lbs of the nose would be bad, lol.
The LT1 is incredibly small for a v8. Much much smaller than say a competitors 5.0 DOHC v8, so the LT1 fitting is in no way at all an indication of the 4.2TT fitting. The LT1 is actually a tight fit in the Camaro so if anything that is proof it won’t fit.
Well, I found these.
26.08″ length for the DOHC 5.0. Scroll down for a pic with measurements.
http://www.rx7club.com/v-8-powered-rx-7s-299/ford-coyote-swaps-do-they-fit-1046760/
24.16″ length for the LT1.
http://paceperformance.com/files/content/lt1-dims.JPG
Considering bore size & spacing, a 4.2 will more than likely fit as the difference between a 6.2 OHV & 4.2 DOHC overall length may be negligible.
OK, I’m not an expert at all in this regard, I just recall I read somewhere in the past that ATS-V was made with 3.6L TT V6, because 6.2L V8 does not fit in ATS-V engine compartment (6.2L V8 only fits into CTS-V – that’s what I read).
But 4.2L V8 should be indeed way smaller and would presumably fit.
The ATS-V got the 3.6TT for the same reason this TTV8 exists – for exclusivity and perception. Also, to fit in with the hierarchy where the only the CTS will get a V8.
The LT1 6.2 V8 should fit just fine in the ATS since it is very compact due to not having over head cams.
This new V8 will have over head cams so it will definitely be taller than an LT1. We’ll have to see if they go with a 90 degree or 60 degree block to see how wide it will be. 90 degrees will make it wider than the 60 degree V6.
The supercharged 6.2L LT4 presumably does not fit into the ATS-V… but the naturally-aspirated version — the 6.2L LT1 — should, as it does in the 2016 Camaro SS.
im sure it will. no reason why it wouldn’t, GM said from day one the ATS chassis was developed to use anything from a 4 banger to a v8, a 4.2TT wont be much taller than the current TT3.6 if any at all.
I said the same, even the LF4 TTV6 in the ATS V makes 460+ hp. how can a 4.2 make under 500 ? it seems odd. if the 3.0 makes 400 even, it would be nice to see a 500hp 4.2 which would not be hard to do. I also wander what happened with the engine in the elmiraj, the 4.5 liter TT V8 making 500hp/500lbft.. either way its nice to see caddy getting its own exclusive V8. an SUV based on the Omega Platform with rear drive and this V8 would also help elevate Cadillac image building on the escalades reputation
I would not be surprised to learn that this is the engine promised in the Elmiraj. If they can make right around 500hp with slightly less displacement then why not.
I am surprised also that the output looks like it will be below 500hp.
Consider that the competitions twin turbo V8 offerings make a lot more horsepower;
Audi- 4.0TFSI twin turbo V8 -560hp/516lb.ft.
BMW S63TU Twin-Turbo V8 (4.4L)-547hp/504lb.ft.
Mercedes M157 Twin-Turbo V8 (5.5L) -557hp/531lb.ft.
Maybe JdN is understating so as not to spoil the surprise.
When is a person like me going to be able to afford a V8 car that’s like that?
The reason I say that is because I just stuck with an LS1 V8 powered car I hope to upgrade in the next few years with another GM car that’s similar.
The word “turbo” has always been a dirty word to insurance companies in Australia from the time Holden fitted the Nissan RB30ET engine into their VL Commodore where they were popular with people under the age of 25 who would tweak them a bit & lose traction in the wet therefore writing the car off.
So the insurance companies had to increase the insurance premiums up to that age,they are still very expensive to insure for 25+ year old people.
What I don’t get is why the hell is that a GM person who doesn’t get that I don’t want to buy one of them now ????
I want to stay with a bigger cubic capacity engine as I don’t want to waste time pulling turbochargers apart to replace turbine seals & bearings or taking them to a specialist which costs a fortune to get them to repair !!!!
If they went to a 32 valve LS3 that would be a better idea as that would shorten the valve train & eliminate the need for spark plug leads with a coil on plug ignition system although I haven’t had a problem with a pushrod engine which has been improved with the inclusion of roller rockers & roller lifters.
Sounds like they should ring it out to 700hp and drop it on a new platform, the kind where it sits between the driver’s ass and rear axle
lol who gives that a thumbs down?! Corolla driver, that’s who
This is more like it! Finally! A 4.2L TTV8 should yield some pretty good performance numbers later on down the line. I can’t wait to see Cadillac’s first exclusive engine in years! And I hope it STAYS exclusive to Cadillac!!!
I’m just curious, is this new 4.2TT DOHC? Or still OHV, like some other GM high performance V8s?
The C&D article did not specify the architecture but it did say that it shares nothing in common with the small block V8 or supercharged 6.2V8 found in the CTS-V.
That only leaves a DOHC design.
Yes, I perfectly agree with your logic, and I had the same thoughts myself; just asked to clarify.
Indeed, in a broader sense, CT6 is a totally new vehicle, so it (almost) does not use any powertrain components from previous GM inventory (except the 2.0 turbo LTG I4 engine, I guess).
TiGr1982,
That’s our fault, this will be a DOHC design. My apologies for omitting that information.
Cheers,
Sean
Thanks! So, it’s like any recent modern GM V6, except that it’s V8. That’s what I supposed myself.
im pretty sure it will be based off the new V6 engine family, as Johan said himself a few times, that the new V6 engines will be based off a modular design that will spawn V6 and V8 engines for Cadillac even 4 cylinders. id assume like the new 3.0 and 3.6 it will offer cylinder deactivation, direct injection, and of course VVT
This is great news. Finally we will see a V8 in a large Cadillac again. I assume this engine will be standard on the CT8 where it will only be available on the platinum leval on the CT6.
I know this may sound a bit pie in the sky, but I’d like to see the new engine completely do away with the belt driven accessories. We already have electric power steering. Electric water pumps are reliable in a lot of demanding racing applications. AC compressors can be driven by a small electric motor and packaged closer to the blower unit, freeing up more space for the twin turbos. The alternator could be incorporated into the start-stop system between the engine and transmission. The harmonic balancer could be internal so you wouldn’t even need the crankshaft sticking out the front.
Imagine the reduction in parasitic drag and wear items. (Raise your hands if you’ve ever had to replace an idler pulley.)
You would eliminate all the visible/touchable rotating parts from the front of the motor and have greater options for packaging in the engine bay.
This would be a revolutionary step forward in engine design, but is entirely possible with current technology.
As a second phase, when solenoid development and processing speed will allow, do away with the camshaft/lifters/etc. and have solenoid actuated valves. A lot less parasitic drag and moving/wear parts with a lot more flexibility with timing and variable displacement. Imagine if Cadillac offered something like that in a V-8, that could go a long ways toward prolonging the life of the V-8.
I just realized that there are a few beltless engines already out there. Even though the current beltless examples are 4-cylinder motors, applying the concept to a V-8 shouldn’t be difficult.
Given that this V8 design is exclusive to Cadillac, I hope it is also designed to have a naturally-aspirated version that eventually trickles down to the ATS (or its replacement).
I also hope they engineer a V10 and/or V12 using the lessons learned from this engine.
V12 is dead in anything but AMG and Lamborghini. The fact BMW ditched it is a good indicator
Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce and Ferrari also use them currently.
A V10 or V12 is a very long shot at best. The volumes would be minuscule and the development costs for a brand new engine are high.
id love to see a naturally aspirated version too. 2 versions of this design the 4.2tt and like a 4.6 NA version would be ideal. but I doubt it
The same fate is likely for the V10. A V8 can be made better and lighter.
There is no doubt that the 6.2 LT1 is an exclusive and premium motor that would do very well in every Cadillac model. The LT1 is only available in the Corvette and recently Camaro SS (yes, there is a truck version in Silverado and Escalade). The LT1 is not available in any Sedan. What I love about it is that it has direct injection and variable valve timing but still maintains a pushrod. Mark Reuss has said this engine will fit in the ATS.
However, what I think is happening here with a 4.2TT is likely to compete globally on a level playing field Cadillac has to work within the displacement tax brackets from Europe and maybe Japan. Even tho the 6.2 is a very good motor that would do well in America, and I doubt there would be any stigma over sharing it with Corvette, Cadillac wants the level playing field with is German competitors.
The LT1 is a fine piece of engineering but it is far from premium or exclusive which is why Cadillac has to create it’s own engines.
I think keeping it simple is what has kept Cadillac fourth best in J D Powers dependability behind Lexus, Buick, and Toyota. The 3.6 LGX has done a good job replacing the “exclusive” 4.6l Northstar V8, and is tuned differently when in a Cadillac then in my 2013 W-body Impala.
An interesting engine to watch is from Alfa Romeo;
“The Giulia Quadrifoglio with a Ferrari-derived all-aluminum 90-degree 2.9 liter Bi-Turbo V6 engine that delivers class-leading 505 horsepower and 443 lb-ft of torque between 2,500 and 5,500 rpm; it launches from 0-60 in a class-leading 3.8 seconds and achieves top speeds of 191 miles per hour.”
… But then there’s a reason Fiat is lowest in dependability
So spend loads of money to craft a 4.2 litre twin turbo V8 that generates a fantastic 400-450 hp! Sounds very exclusive and premium even if there are less technological engines that spank those ratings! What am I missing?
To compete in this segment the engine must have snob appeal.
Sorry to compete in that field requires more than snob appeal. It requires results, and a 4.2 litre twin-turbo V-8 with 450 hp sadly is laughing stock vs snob appeal!
Cadillac President, Johan De Nysschen, wants Cadillac to be recognized as a premium car brand and having an exclusive engine is a necessity as you’ve got to think that the new 4.2L DOHC-4v V8 will have the latest engine management hardware so it will function as a 2.0L 4-cyl engine at low speeds for improve mileage for non-hybrid models; but doing the math, this engine might be only marginally better than LGX 3.6L V6 which means Cadillac may still need Chevy’s LT4 for the CTS-V unless a mid-life update of the ATS and CTS allows for serious weight savings similar to GMC’s Acadia because the CTS-V wouldn’t need 640 hp to achieve the same level of performance if it was 400-500 lbs lighter.
In the ATS development teaser videos Mark Reuss said that every ounce had to earn its was onto the Alpha, I don’t think there is much room for ATS and CTS to loose weight apart from the occupants going on a diet. I have to assume Omega followed the same philosophy developing the CT6..
The 2.0T has nearly the same output as the 4.6 Northstar V8 did in the DTS, and these are the mindsets JdN is trying to enlighten.
I’m not sure the 4.2TT DOHC will have as significant of a weight loss needed to compete using a lower output. Maybe a 3.6TT performance Hybrid like McLaren P1, LaFerrari, etc. will be a direction for a next-gen CT#-V
The CTS is unlikely to lose that much weight the next time around.
Remember that a big part of the Acadia’s weight loss was that it went down in size so significantly. It was a fullsizer now a midsizer.
I see a variant of this thing being shipped to Bowling Green in the future.
You are probably right but not soon as it will remain Cadillac exclusive for a while to maintain the exclusivity.
Oh absolutely. I imagine it’ll be a decade or more before it does happen.
I note that the twin turbo 4.2l V-8 is shorter than its brethren. Were they able to accomplish that with an aluminum block, or did they go to a compacted graphite iron block?