Update: an earlier version of this article incorrectly stated that the BMW M5 was not available with a manual transmission. It has since been corrected to reflect the fact that the M5 is available with an optional 6-speed manual.
It would be difficult to argue against the notion that the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V is a car for enthusiasts. Indeed, the same could be said about all Cadillac V-Series models, but especially so about the 2016 CTS-V. Just think about it: would a person who isn’t in love with cars, with Cadillac, or with the art of driving going to want a vehicle with a supercharged 6.2L V8 V8 LT4 engine making 640 horsepower and 630 pound-feet of torque, enabling a 0-60 mph time of 3.7 seconds and a top speed of 200 mph, while possessing some impressive handling capabilities.
So, it’s a bit of a mystery to us why Cadillac has decided to not offer the vehicle with a manual transmission, instead opting to equip the midsize sedan rocket solely with the 8-speed automatic 8L90. Yes, the automatic is highly capable, but it’s not nearly as fun to drive for those who are truly into the art of driving — the gear heads, the enthusiasts, and the car guys (and gals).
The explanation provided by Cadillac is that the segment in which the new CTS-V competes has very little demand for a stick. Indeed, the third-gen CTS (as well as the non-V CTS) has moved up in segment, in price, in size, and in features compared to its two predecessors, now squarely competing in the midsize luxury sedan space against two German stalwarts: the M5 from BMW and the E63 AMG from Mercedes-Benz. Neither one of those German rivals offers a stick (in the U.S.), so why should Cadillac? To us, the answer is all about differentiation. Correction: the BMW M5 offers a 6-speed manual transmission; the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG is only available with a 7-speed automatic transmission.
When you think about it, the CTS-V is the challenger in the segment, providing an alternative to the M5 and E63 AMG. The Cadillac is a different vehicle; it has its own personality, distinctive styling, and a unique character. Following that train of thought to its logical conclusion makes us realize that offering a manual transmission would simply serve as one more differentiator for Cadillac when compared to the Mercedes-Benz, while offering a feature comparable to the M5.
So, will people buy the CTS-V with a stick? Something tells us that they will. Granted, CTS-Vs with a manual transmission won’t make up the majority of the already-small sales volume for the vehicle… but it doesn’t need to, either. Especially since the cost of offering the stick would be minimal given that GM has already done the engineering and validation for a manual gearbox for the LT4 in the 2015 Corvette Z06.
And that brings us to our question to you:Â should Cadillac offer a manual transmission option on the third-generation CTS-V?
We realize we asked you the same exact question roughly a year ago, but didn’t offer up a poll at that time. So, a poll is in order this time around. So, please cast your vote and then discuss in the comments.
[nggallery id=699]
Comments
I say yes, but I think again it just depends on how many people will willing to buy it. I’m guessing about 10-15% of the CTS-V sales. So the real question is, does Johan have the cajones to sell a manual CTS-V?
I think it would be higher than that based on the kind of car this is (enthusiast vehicle, and enthusiasts tend to like driving and buy more vehicles with the manual). But let’s assume it’s 10-15 percent. Many of those customers they might not have had before… meaning that these customers may have purchased a used second gen V or something else entirely with a stick.
And given that the profit margin on these cars is the highest of any GM vehicle, I would say it’s very much worth it. Thy need to stop playing it conservatively (read: chicken shit) and man up to offer what customers an potential cutlets are asking for.
Next up: add knobs to CUE.
I do not think they should offer a manual CTS-V.
1. There is no performance advantage the manual compared to modern automatics that provide better 0-60, quarter mile and lap times.
If you are billing your product as the ultimate midsized luxury performance sedan then why build a slower version.
2. The market is not there to justify the development costs and validation process costs.
If there was money in that niche the M5, E63, S6 and any other vehicles of that ilk would still offer it.
Not enough customers are ‘asking for ‘manual transmissions anymore to be worth it. Cadillac should divert those resources to other more immediate needs.
Before being a performance car, the CTS-V is a driver’s car. It’s a car for driving enthusiasts for fun. So to answer your questions:
1. It’s not all about lap times. It’s more about the fun that can be had by those driving it. A manual transmission is a significant contributor to that fun.
2. We don’t know if the market for a manual CTS-V is there or not. We don’t have much imperial evidence of either one. Though if we could follow the results of this poll and some of the comments on this post, there is demand for a stick in the car.
And the development is already done thanks to the Z06. The validation wouidxbe minimal. The production line expense would be minimal. The potential gain in customers could be more than minimal.
Not entirely disagreeing with your arguments but;
1) yes driving a manual is more engaging -but a huge part of a performance cars raison d’etre is perform to its maximum level -a manual transmission nowadays is more nostalgic that practical
2) the emperical evidence is the departure of the niche market by the very ones that created it. None of the luxury midsized sedan makers sales are being hurt by not having a manual transmission.
I agree though that a lot of the R&D has already been done.
A no brainer to most enthusiasts, but GM is following the Toyota/Honda lead in building less variations to make production/certification more efficient and simple.
Yeah, I get the less variants argument. But it’s just one more variant that makes sens for the target market. Not like we’re asking for a neon green color to the palette 😉
I have a 2014 ctsv manual sedan. The car is night and day over the automatic. Maybe it’s me but it’s a lot more fun and I like to do something when I’m driving.
When my lease is up in a year I might not get the new ctsv because no stick is offered.
Thanks for sharing that, Drew.
I completely agree that the driving experience provided by a V car with a manual is completely different from that of an automatic. And these cars are, first and foremost, made for people who care about the driving experience.
Out of curiosity, when your lease is up, what would you consider getting if not a third-gen V? Would you buy out your current lease in hopes of a stick being offered?
On a related note: Drew’s comment is my greatest fear for the new CTS-V. It has built up quite a healthy following, likely being right behind the Escalade in what the brand is known for. But a lack of a stick could result in customers leaving the brand and not buying what is an otherwise excellent vehicle.
The new V has two whammies against it, 1st is no manual offered for enthusiasts like me and 2nd the price point. Although the auto is more practical I agree since my wife can’t drive stick, but the thrill of throwing your own gears, the seat of pants feeling and the engine sounds behind it make it worth it. Hey the ats-v has the option for a manual why can’t its older brother have one as well?
I’ve seen all the vids on the new v and auto does look good and I’m sure is fast but won’t replace the pure driving experience of a manual.
The new v is now almost a 30k difference from my fully loaded v. This knocks out a good amount of original v owners. Even though the 3rd gen has come a long way by new materials used, interior etc.. I don’t know if i can wrap my head spending almost 95k on a fully load 3rd gen. In this price range even though the M5 and E63 are more expensive and the new ctsv is considered a bargain I might have to look at other brands. Such a shame b/c I love the v!
My question is what would be the alternative vehicle of choice if one decides they don’t want a CTS-V? I suppose one could purchase a Camaro or Hellcat but wouldn’t that be a step down the proverbial food chain?
The M5. Offers a six-speed stick.
Cadillac CTS sales are not what they were a couple of years ago and part of the reason might be due to the fact that the CTS is only available as a sedan. If Cadillac had done what did with their GEN 2 and offered the CTS in a coupe and wagon as well as with a manual transmission, the numbers might be different because there may be specific consumers who want a GEN 3 CTS in a coupe with a manual transmission or a sports wagon with a manual. The more options, the greater interest there will be for Cadillac’s GEN 3 CTS.
Not sure the lower sales is primarily due to the lack of model differentiation.
The gen 2 CTS did not have any internal pressure as they do now with the ATS.
That gen 2 and gen 1 CTS were tweeners living between the compact and midsized categories but now the ATS is taking some of those clients.
The higher price point of the CTS hasn’t helped also.
Yes, the segment repositioning of the CTS with the arrival of the ATS has diminished overall sales volume of the CTS. But overall, combined sales of both are higher than 2nd gen CTS. I think you mentioned this before, evDave.
And it’s great to see GM and Cadillac stop playing the tweener game, and compete head-on in each segment. This usually results in higher sales volume, higher ATPs, and ultimately higher customer satisfaction.
That said, CTS has lost previous customers turned off by the new model’s higher price, despite it being better than the last-gen model.
Then there’s the loss of the CTS coupe and CTS wagon. CTS Coupe buyers likely went to the ATS coupe, while CTS Wagon buyers (likely) went elsewhere.
If Cadillac truly wants to compete with BMW and Benz, it will need to bring both of those CTS (CT#) back to take on the E class coupe/convertible and BMW 6 Series for the CTS Coupe and the wagon variants of the E Class and 5 Series for the CTS Wagon. The latter will be vital for Europe; the former will do good things for ATPs and image.
Should and Can are too different stories.
In a world of rainbows & Cadillac being the world luxury car sales leader standing on par with the likes of BMW & Mercedes, then by all means yes.
Problem is Cadillac still trying desperately to play catch up in a world where prestige needs to earned by decades of brand building. At this delicate stage where every penny of R&D counts, I wonder if Cadillac can even return a profit for the automatic equipped CTS-V given sales of the regular CTS has been relatively stagnant.
The car enthusiast me says Yes, but my brain & logic says No. I’m a rather logical personal sadly.
The CTS is profitable and so is the V variant, despite the low sales volumes. Let’s remember the economics of scale funnies by Alpha platform shared by the CTS and ATS.
The development is already done via the Corvette Z06. Cadillac’s investment – from a time and financial standpoints – is minimal at most.
There had already been 2 CTS-Vs thru my dealership that already sold out once they arrived.
The CTS-V’s demand must be high starting off without the concern of the manual transmission. Me personally, I would buy an automatic but that decision for the manual in a mid-size sedan is up for debate with Cadillac and GM. If enough customer’s voice their concern with Cadillac, it could be a chance that Cadillac could look into it but can’t make any promises since this is an economy of scales decision.
I like for Cadillac to offer AWD and four-wheel steering to make the CTS-V the best in class even further in the future. Even if the successor has to adopt new technology to make it best in class, so be it. We will come to buy.
Niche vehicle that should be available with equipment prospective customers wants. Yes a manual should be available.
From a practical perspective not really necessary since the automatic is qucker.
Customer is king though!
I would not buy an automatic performance car. I love the fun of changing gears when I want to. I was disappointed when they dropped the manual transmission on Regal GS. Just as I was waiting for the 2016 model years to come out to get one. Although this post is about the CTS-V I think GM needs to get back in to building cars for my generation. I love the ATS Performance edition, but couldn’t afford it. The new Cruze looks awesome….. Just put in a more powerful engine and it will catch the tuner’s of my generation. I love modifying my car, EX) lowering the suspension, performance exhaust, body kits, engine tuning etc….. I miss my old Cobalt SS Turbo and they days GM had a fun sport compact to it’s model portfolio.
Well should they offer needs to be preceded with the real question and that is how many sales would it generate and would it make money!
I think all performance vehicles should be available with a Manual tranny but that is just not an easy thing to do anymore. The Automatics are faster, get better MPG and sell at a much higher rate anymore. That just makes them difficult to offer as making a Manual adds more parts more emissions testing, more crash testing more development cost and in the end in a performance vehicle at best might sell in 15%-20% in a CTSV. A Corvette is the one accretion with a higher rate.
In the industry the take rate is around 7%-8% at best and varies up and down one point at best.
So be for you ask me if they should offer it in this model I should ask you a question can they make money with it? You show me the added profits then you have my answer.
In a day and age when it is impossible to find a gated shifter in a Ferrari it should be telling where the market is.
Note if the Camaro is offered with the same engine in a Manual this may be a path to bring in a manual V later on. The cost could be spread out on the drivetrain and only then they would have to deal with the crash test for the different pan they would have to use in the car.
The cost is minimal given the Z06. The only cost associated with bringing a stick to the CTS-C is twofold:
1. Validation costs associated with testing and internally certifying the combination; maybe a few different hardware points as well, but still minimal in the R&D phase.
2. Per-unit production cost, with will likely be very similar if not the same as those of the automatic.
Well it is not that easy according to the people I have spoken too from GM.
In some cased they can use the numbers from the Z06 but with changes to the exhaust and other areas of the engine management it could require a total recertification.
As for car they would need to change the floor and possibly the dash as it was not designed for this. That generally requires a series of new crash test.
Just these two factors alone would be very expensive.
Then factor in the tooling for a console, shifter, all the bits for the clutch and pedal/cylinder assembly. sourcing a tranny that will take the beating and more.
I know I missed much here but these are just some of the big ticket items.
Then you would have re engineering for the suspension and drive line due to shock loads to make sure it does not wheel hope or break anything.
Then factor that buy how few will be sold. It could be very pricy and even with high profits on this car it could take a chunk of it if you decide to do this and not add to the cost.
I was advised on the GTO and how much it cost to bring it here. It was cheap buy industry standards and still it was very expensive. the plastics had to be redone, The fuel systems had to be reworked and crash tested with many cars not just a couple. Even don on a shoe string it was millions of dollars to do it.
There are a lot of things we never get or see due to the cost involves anymore. Simple changes can set off a chain of events due to regulations and engineering that we on the outside never see or consider.
Lets make it clear if it were all that cheap and easy would not expect they would have done this already? The engineers on this car are all racers so what do you think they would have done if it were all that cheap, easy and profitable?
Nice story in the coming Car and Driver showing all the racers involved in the V series.
I can buy a 2016 M5 or Hellcat Charger with a stick. My next car will be a lightweight coupe with a manual and 600+ HP. Who wants my money?
With such slow sales of the CTS, I have no doubt that if GM thinks they can get a few more sales, it’s already on the way and should be announced in 2016.
The article is wrong. THE M5 IS AVAILABLE WITH A 6 SPEED MANUAL.
Mayfair — thank you for pointing that out. We’ve corrected the article to reflect that the M5 does, in fact, offer a 6-speed manual transmission.
As to what your next car will be: “a lightweight coupe with 600+ horsepower”
I can think of the Corvette Z06. But would be nice if Cadillac had a CTS-V Coupe to pique your interest, too.
Alex,
I really like the Z06, but unfortunately, I’m too tall to properly fit in it. A CTS-V sans sunroof would certainly get my interest.
It should also be noted that for the current and previous generation M5, it was US customers who insisted in having the choice of a manual transmission. To my knowledge, a manual M5 is not offered in Europe. At least it wasn’t for the previous generation. The rapid adoption of performance automatics in Europe continues to surprise me.
Hellcat charger doesn’t come with stick, only hellcat challenger
I stand corrected.
While I was disappointed when I first heard they would not offer one on the 2016, after seeing and driving the car I understand why – the auto is that good. Offering the option would increase the cost materially across all models to recoup development costs. They are bumping up against the max most would pay for a cadillac. If this version takes off that may change in future years, but not 2017 models.
What it all comes down to is the Manual shift people are more vocal but the Automatic buyers are in much greater silent numbers.
The other issue is so many people can not even drive a manual car anymore. theft is even down on them as no one can drive them. This is sad but it bears out that manuals are in the minority anymore and on the way out except for an handful of cars.
Today people are more involved keeping a hand free for the bug gulp, the Cell Phone and the GPS vs really getting involved in driving the car. That is the saddest commentary on today but it is true.
The Auto enthusiast may never go away but we are no longer in the majority.
Guys,
The manual is history on this unit. To believe that one is not now going to be offered at introduction but that in several years a manual will be offered is a bit of a stretch. Am I big fan of automatics…wellll no I am not. Especially after last week when I rented a Jeep Cherokee w/ a 9 spd that had to challenge the mountains of Northern Arizona…still suffering from whiplash.
As a CTS-V Wagon owner with a 6 spd and a fair amount of D3 mods I can accept and even welcome the automatic. Perhaps because I spend a lot of time in Las Vegas, San Diego and LA traffic I am a bit tainted in my view. Yes, when on the roads around my house in rural Nevada (which is why I went with 6spd) the gear box is a riot; but the balance of time is such that I do often curse the rowing.
I would rather see GM continue to spend money on the diff (strength and reliability), better…much better… lighting (to coincide w/ the speeds the vehicle is capable of), continued improvement in interior layout (new dash is a bit too busy for me), and fit/finish …perhaps to the point of being best in class rather than a perennial runner up. When delivered dash had spkr wires above the dash, and front qtr panel had a waterfall of paint that required a repaint, and perhaps an AWD version that fits with the 6.2 under the hood…now THAT is where GM engineering will really be well represented.
Having spoken with my checkbook once I am prepared to do so again when the new CTS-V has a bit of history. I will not miss the 6 spd; but then I am keeping the wagon…forever! 🙂
I don’t think the CTS-V needs a manual option and, personally, I would rather have the automatic anyway. However, if Cadillac concluded that there was enough demand for it to justify the cost then I don’t see why they shouldn’t have a manual transmission option.
Do you think there is a marketing benefit to having a stick? or is it just about sales?
For the sake of being different from the rest of its class, and for the sake of having more variety, a manual transmission option should be available. Since this is by all intents and purposes a performance sedan, I don’t see why GM acts as if they can’t! I understand the take rate of the stick is quite low to justify the production costs, but I’m quite sure the same customer who purchases a Z06, or a ZL1 would want one of these; and even more so with a stick option. When it comes to the overlap of performance ( and pricing to an extent) GM has in its portfolio, from the 6th gen Camaro SS to the mighty Z06, with the ATS-V and CTS-V sitting in the middle, their customers are likely to do a bit of cross shopping among the models. Despite the diversity. So a stick options should be offered for the GM performance customer.
Unfortunately the coupe along with the manual transmission has been disappearing more and more….as the 8 speed automatics are now doing better times in the 0-60mph along with better quarter mile times (just see the 2016 Chevy Camaro). I’m sure some drivers who even prefer a manual will buy the automatic for that reason alone.
Scott3 also mentioned more and more ppl cannot even drive a manual as even the thefts are down.
The money just isn’t there to be made for even a car like this to have a manual or GM would make offer it.
I personally am more disappointed in seeing less coupes offered than even the manual disappearing. Don’t take this sentence wrong as I am disappointed to see the manual start to disappear…but the lack of coupes is even more disheartening as it basically is becoming that a car is just more of just practical transportation than something that can be fun to drive and have some individuality.
GM actually has the most coupes that I am aware of in the auto industry and it’s still weak. (Camaro, Corvette, Buick Cascada, Cadillac ATS & Cadillac ELR)….The ELR and Vette are not really even in the price range of most comsumers. I am not even sure if it profitable for the Cruze to be made in a coupe.
DeliveryMan, I echo your sentiments wholeheartedly. Matter of fact, Mercedes-Benz has the most coupes in the auto industry. There’s a coupe version for all three core sedans (C, E, S-classes), specialized roadsters, plus 4-door coupes and CUV- coupes. Mercedes-Benz has a body style for everybody. That’s who Cadillac should bench mark for their product portfolio.
100% Necessity, more than even most fans realize.
Cadillac is stuck. They are trying to lift themselves up, but right now they are seen as a tier 2 contender.
I don’t care if you sell 5 of them, you need to offer the enthusiast trim just so enthusiasts see you as an enthusiast contender.
Why does that matter? because while the enthusiasts don’t buy a lot of cars (and often buy them used), they are the ones who drive brands. BMWs aren’t just loved for their build quality, its the few BMW owners who are true enthusiasts who drive the brand. The enthusiasts are the ones who TALK about the car, build up the car, and create the consideration sets.
It reminds me of what a major teen-oriented brand did a few years ago. They sought out popular highschoolers and gave them free product knowing that if the “popular kids” were wearing them, others would buy it.
Cadillac’s V-series needs to do the same thing. They need to appeal to the enthusiasts, offer a stick that no one will buy and only makes sense as a marketing ploy not a sales plan, and build up the enthusiasts who will in turn build up the brand and actually sell more $60k non-V automatics to the people who buy them.
Its true not a lot of buyers will choose them, but in battle of hearts and minds, bean counters don’t create revolutions.
Well the deal is the Coupe and wagon are not a volume market.
Yes some companies have limited coupe sales they are considered add on sales for the most and the cars are also sold globally to make up the volume it lacks in many markets.
The Cruze in China and the US markets would not all that great here and would need more global support.
Also factor in that GM had many other more important things to spend money on like a new Lacrosse, Malibu, Regal, Cruze replacement etc. These are the models in sedans that make the money so priority is there. Now once they get caught up we could see more coupes to fill out line ups.
Right now the two coupes that really have any sales volume in the US market is the Camaro and Mustang. Much of that has to do with their segment and history.
People are also going to the CUV because even the small sedans lack space and small coupes have generally little usable space unless you are a double amputee.
If I were to expect a coupe watch Buick as the White space they speak of is perfect for it. They can share in the Opel products as well as Holden. This will give them the volume as well as a better price point to make money at lower volume.
The simple fact is we do not see things like manual transmission , coupe and other such things is because they do not make as much money as other models do. If given a choice between two programs a MFG will always take the one that will make the most money.
People tend to forget automakers are in business to make money not just employ people and to make every niche product possible. At the end of the day it is all about making money. That may not always be fun or poetic but it is reality.
The other issue too is say if you wanted a Cruze SS. The Cobalt was around K back in 08. Today that car would be over K today easily. Now contrast that with the Camaro V6 that is larger and has more power but yet similar MPG. Or even a Turbo 4 that would be cheaper yet. This would make the Cobalt SS a very limited sale item. It did not sell in big numbers before either.
I am a HHR SS owner and I love the car. It stickered at K but I bought it at K. GM did not make much off of me as I added even more GM money on top of that. I used to see people wishing for AWD and more options etc. But would you have paid more for an HHR SS? I would not and I love mine. This is where Buick could offer an ASTRA OPC model with better interior and options. They could make a competitive GTI killer for a little more and not discount it as much and still make money at lower volumes once you add their totals with Holden, Opel and Vauxhall.
Building , pricing and positioning is difficult. Even from company to company it can be different based on their global presents of a model.
The internet CEO’s look into the well and see the smooth surface of the water but too often never see the rocky bottom just under it that has to be taken into consideration.
The 2014 CTS-V doesn’t compare to the All-new 2016, two entirely different automobiles and transmissions! I wouldn’t make a decision until actually driving one. Besides, what would you buy as an alternative, ATS-V?
Manual Transmission is more reliable, lasts longer and is better in the snow. If you are in the market for a fun car and are an enthusiast then you want a manual transmission. If they do not offer a manual transmission, than ill have to get a different car and this car will be dead and useless. Only people who cant drive but think they are cool and want to look cool will buy this car in a automatic.
Whats the point in having a sports car in an automatic? Thats just for people who cant drive but still want to look cool.
Manual transmissions are also more reliable, lasts longer and are better in the snow.
As an owner of a manual Cadillac CTSV coupe, I wish the option was available to obtain a manual car… Since manual is no longer available, i’m now forced to look at other brands..ie, BMW.