Community Question: Does Chevrolet Need A Hellcat Contender?
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If Chevrolet really wanted to give the 2016 SS a kick, they’d be readying a high-performance alternative to Dodge’s Challenger and Charger Hellcat twins.
We’ve previously detailed how the Chevrolet SS is absolutely one of the greatest cars no one is buying, but it simply lacks awareness in the marketplace. Here’s something to chew over, though: when is the last time you saw an advertisement for the Challenger or Charger Hellcat?
We don’t recall one explicitly for the Hellcat twins, either. But, the fact of the matter is, the introduction created enough buzz there was no need to create additional awareness. Everyone knows about the Hellcat, despite marketing channels staying silent.
We bring this up because Chevrolet has dropped the ball hardcore on creating awareness for the SS performance sedan. So, if the bowtie brand is adamant on letting the car go silent in the advertising department, why not send it off with a bang and create the buzz the car deserves?
You may ask: “Why the Chevrolet SS, and not the 2016 Chevrolet Camaro?” Ah, because the Camaro certainly needs no introduction, with bountiful amounts of brand equity buried in the nameplate. The SS is a very different story.
We can only imagine the internet waves created with the introduction of an LS9-powered Chevrolet SS. You know it would be awesome, we know it would be awesome and, surely, the minds inside of Chevrolet know it would be awesome.
Plus, the price point would be nearly bang on. With the Charger Hellcat ringing in at nearly $64,000 in base guise, there’s room to push the gotta-have-it factor with the SS’ $46,000 price tag.
We may not be too far off, either. News has surfaced Holden Special Vehicles has acquired a handful of LS9 engines, churning the rumor mill that we may see an LS9-powered HSV model based on the 2016 Holden Commodore Series II. Maybe, just maybe, we’ll see the idea grace our shores, and not let the Aussies have all the fun.
The blueprint is there, but, we’ll turn it to you. Should Chevrolet cover this niche before the Chevrolet SS’ days become even more numbered? Or, should it sit this round out?
However, as they say, there’s no time like the present.
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Well, I don’t think it’s necessary for there to be a Chevy SS HellCat rival, but it wouldn’t hurt at all to build such a car for the sake of generating buzz around it! The SS DESPERATELY needs some buzz!
What it needs is the LT-1 and 8l90. That of course will never happen as it would require a very extensive rework of the car. But add that powertrain to the mix and it will do low/mid 12’s and will REALLY be something special for under 50k. Both the 16 Camaro and Corvette significantly eclipse the the LS3/6l80 setup making it a tough sell for the SS sedan.
I’m unclear as to why an LT1 and 8L90 would require in your words: “a very extensive rework of the car”?
This should be a simple drop in and certify. The physical space should be almost identical to the existing power train.
Because it costs money to fit, test, and certify new parts. GM is not making that investment on a platform that is going on the trash in like 18 months.
Your words are “fit, test and certify”.
His words were “very extensive rework of the car”.
You may be right, but im guessing that it didn’t reflect in your SATs.
It’s a whole new generation of engine hat uses completely new electronics as well as direct injection. The direct injection alone requires all new fuel plumbing, fuel pump setup and gas tank and such. This isn’t 1970 where you can just pull the 327 for a 396, the two engines are very very different.
It just won’t happen for a low volume car. In comparison when they went from the ls1 to the ls2 in the Gto it required all new electronics and computers but the engines are very similar in design and function, so it required much less work. Dbw was the biggest change. If the 8l90 bolts up to the ls3 that would be an easier update than the LT-1
Yes it is not just plug and play.
Then you also have to consider how much the recertification will run vs. how many cars you intend to import.
Then you have to figure the cost of the new more expensive engines and the cost of the work to put them in and balance over the few cars you will import and sell.
There is even more to this than what I outlined.
In the simple terms for the few cars they will import the cost of doing a project like this would run the car up in price to a point to make a profit it would be very unreasonable.
This is speculative but probable. Unless you have the numbers it is hard to tell but either way it is not just a plug and play deal here.
The just tuning to get the engine right for this car with the transmission and all the other parameters is not cheap or quick to do.
With so few regular SS I am going to guess a top end car in even lower numbers is not a very profitable venture and if they price it to be they would be discounted and money lost.
Then you toss in exchange rates by the time it comes to market too that could change for the better or worse.
If it were more simple that would make this a slam dunk but it’s not.
Note the computers are all the same better to day different programming.
But for once Mike you are correct on most other points.
The computers are not the same. 5th Gen uses a much different ECM that has a faster processor. At least the C7 Corvette does over the C6. The SS Sedan uses the E38 ECM while the C7 is using the E92 and they’re quite different.
I don’t post here much, so I’m not sure what you mean by for once Mike you are right…Perhaps we’ve had different opinions in the past.
Thanks Mike. Appreciate your well-reasoned response.
Before anyone else gets any other bright ideas like michael up above, remember that adding new gear will ALSO add to the price.
I know I am preempting this but there will STILL be people who think this car could (and should) have an LS9, C7 Z06 brakes, seven-speed manual or 8L90E, Z/28 wheels/tires, all-new interior (somehow), and lose about 600 pounds all for around ,455. So do not expect much, if any new/updated gear WITHOUT a corresponding price jump.
Phil – check the up charge on a Hellcat.
No one is expecting that GM will put that kind of firepower on the street without charging a substantial premium.
You’ve made the critical error of misjudging your audience before they even spoke.
I’m guessing you have a difficult relationship with your supervisor.
The SS is already highly overpriced. As a Pontiac, before becoming a niche vehicle that needed to be positioned at a premium above Impala to prevent cannibalizing sales, the vehicle was a far more reasonable sales proposition.
Yes, SS is a fine car,but should not cost substantially more than it’s Dodge and Chrysler crosstown counterparts.
I’d also suggest that the Clubhouse edition become available seeing as it’s a more attractive Charger rival. We are living in the new golden age of muscle and I find it interesting that GM has not moved to fill this white space which seems to be a favorite preoccupation of Mark Ruess.
Substantially more?
The Charger has how many trims compared to the SS? The charger SRT cost 48 and the hellcat cost 64
64 thousand dollars. That’s german foreign money there
I agree with your point but I feel that the car costs too much for it to have the nearly 10 year old ls3 6l80 combo. It’s a great car, but for 46k it needs a current powertrain.
Sure you can modify the ls3 but I personally don’t want a modified car anymore. Also doesn’t change the fact the 6l80 is a very average transmission. While I feel it’s OK in my g8 gt, there were things even the 4l65 in my 05 Gto did better. Mainly slow slow downshifts and just OK upshifts, even after a tune.
Have you guys seen this ? …
Hellcat fighter? No.
More choices for the performance enthusiast beyond Camaro, Corvette and V Cadillacs ? Yes!
The SS sedan is a terrific car and I intend to have one soon, but it has a major identity crisis. The car really has “no name”? Had they simply called the car “Impala SS” it may have had a better chance. Whatever the case, the clock is ticking on the SS and all other Zeta based Commodores, etc…soon there will be no more.
I test drove a manual SS and while it was a fine car to drive it is hideously ugly. I don’t mind the plain looks, but I do mind the excessive chrome and polished wheels. My thoughts going into the test drive was that I would end up blacking out the chrome, but there is SO MUCH of it, everywhere, inside and out. Alas, there’s no way I can plop $45k down for an ugly car that really doesn’t have enough power under the hood.
How much power do you require? You are not going to get much more HP in many cars, especially in this class. Would the LS7 do? Or the LS9? I assure you you can take this stock car to one of the major tuners and get better for the price GM would charge to put it in there.
It’s the lack of low to midrange grunt that it needs. Ls3 is a great Corvette engine, but it lacks the down low umph needed for such a big car. All stock, non supercharged ls engines do – I’ve had a lot of them.
If Chevrolet wants a true contender for the Dodge Charger then it should ditch the SS altogether and build a new sports sedan from scratch, perhaps using the Omega platform from the CT6, with classic muscle car styling cues as seen on the Camaro and Dodge Charger and an interesting name to match, perhaps the Chevelle.
The SS is a car that’s trying so hard to be obscure that very few people are interested in it. It needs a bit of the flare that muscle cars have traditionally had.
Of course GM does have a brand that is perfectly primed to fight Dodge on all fronts but they’re not using it… Pontiac.
Like the comment, but I think Alpha would be a better platform. Need something leaner, but of course the SS/Commodore already beats the Dodges by 300 or so pounds.
Now that I think about it you’re right. The Alpha probably would be a better choice.
I agree the Alpha platform would be the way to go, but then it would compete more directly with the CTSV than with the Charger Hellcat. I don’t think GM wants to build a less expensive and probably less profitable CTSV that would cannibalize CTSV sales.
It’s not well known but some years ago before the bankruptcy GM prepared a four-door styling exercise on the Zeta platform that was named Chevelle.
Just checked it out. Don’t think I’ve ever seen it before now. Pity they never went through with it, although the design could do with being redrawn now. It looks very 2004.
There are only some shity photoshops out there. There was also supposed to be a second generation new GTO. Neither was unveiled to the public and I have not seen pics of either.
GM could easily build contender with the SS with no issue as it is a newer platform than the Charger.
But with the end near why bother for one year and for even a lower volume car in North America.
Now I do agree to do one on a new platform that is not being discontinues and to build it here were the cost would be easier to control for higher volumes.
As for Pontiac they died a long time ago and they will remain dead for a good time longer. The Chevelled name on a full size car also would not work as it was never a full size car. Also offering a Malibu and Chevelle would be odd in the same brand in two different cars.
Now don’t go claiming I hate Pontiac as I have owned many and still do at this time. I also loved Chevelles as we have had 6 brand new ones in the family and one used SS model in the family not counting the GMC Sprint SP I also had or the 1970 Monte Carlo.
Also it is time to stop living in the past. You can only ride the retro train so far in life. The time comes you need to step out and make new classics. If Chevy had just stuck with Full Size cars in 64 there never would have been a Chevelle. Same in 68 With the Camaro etc. The fact is if you build a car right you can make a new name and new classic.
Time for many of these companies to stop taking the easy way out and work to create new bold models that can create their own image and stand on their own name.
Retro can be fun at times but this deal has been used and abused over the year.
I think you have no idea what a Chevelle was. It was the big, full frame brother to the Nova. It may not have been an Impala or Biscayne but it very much was what the Challenger is today – a big boy.
You do understand the Chevelle was at the time it was build a Mid Size car the same class the today Malibu covers.
It also weighed in at around 3600 pounds too.
The Impala and Charger are considered full size cars today and competitors with different drivelines. They both go over 4000 pounds.
The present day Nova class car is the Cruze. The class sizes have changed and the over all size of all cars has shrunk.
You can call the Chevelle what ever you want but it was a mid size car then and is still considered a mid size car looking back today.
Learn your history, Just because you think something does not make it true.
The Charger back then also was a mid size car that was moved to what is considered today a full size car.
The original Charger was also a mid size car in it’s time. It’s OK to play around with historic names to fit with the times. Also, the retro train is a good way to attract buyers. The Camaro went retro for the 5th generation but for the 6th gen they were able to be much more bold and forward thinking. It’s about laying the foundations for an attention grabbing car. Once they’ve captured consumer interest to the point where it is self sustaining then they can think about moving the design forward just like has happened with the Dodge Charger and the Camaro.
As Cadillac have proved it’s not always as simple as just building a great car and hoping people will buy it. Whether we like it or not retro still sells.
Retro is ok for selling cars for a while but to advance a brand you must advance the cause too. You can only go to the well so many times.
GM to be honest has not gone total sell out retro. They did use the 69 Camaro for a base and then used the C7 lines on the car.
You want people to identify the car but you don’t want to get too retro or you never advance the image.
Well Cadillac has some customer building to do. They can build the best car in the world but they still need to earn the trust and respect of the customers. The damage of the last 40-50 years can not be undone on compelling design alone. But with that said they are working on all areas and we will see progress in the future.
And the CTS V isn’t a hellcat fighter because?
Mainly because it will be about 20k+ more in price. Also, it is aimed at MB/BMW/Audi, not Dodge.
Because it is the complete package not just engine. You pay for the rest but it will do more than just go.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to “deluxurize” the CTSV to a more price competitive car rather than stretch a whole new body over the alpha? You’ve already got the LT with an 8 speed in that.
Well what is Cadillac. A Luxury car division and what are their main directive. Well to sell Luxury cars.
The problem is you are spending $12 Billion to make Cadillac the new luxury standard of the world and you want to de luxurize [that is playing hell with spell check] a CTSV?
If you want to do this you have to make it a Chevy or a Buick and even then the Buick. The price point would be at the top of Chevy and middle of Buick.
Also what do you take away from the Cadillac? The Magnetic Suspensionn? The Aero package that makes it handle? Sure you can take the sound deadening, leather and other trim items but then it would not be a Cadillac anyways.
Better to do a new body with its own identity as a Chevy. Package it from the start to sell at a lower price. Offer it also as a Caprice version and sell it in a Police package in fleets at a profit.
Would it be fun to do hell yah!
Now do they need one not really.
In place of taking the time and money to do one in the old Zeta why don’t we put the money and man power to a Chevy 4 door sedan based on the Zeta and make it a Impala/SS replacement. Then you drop in a sufficient engine to do the job in a more modern lighter and stiffer platform.
I like the idea but for one year I would rather see it go to something that will be around in 5 years.
Also build the car to where it can use the power. The Hellcat has some cool numbers but the car is dumbed down to use the power it has. Imagine if it could all of the power that is available in the engine. Engine management dials out a lot in this car.
From what I have heard GM has tested the LT engines up to over 1000 HP for the new C8 but they will only put in what they can put to the ground. The work has continued on this. We will see just how much they can get to the ground.
The ZR1 engine was approved for up to 725 with Warranty and Emissions testing.
A friend of mine a Mopar friend at that showed me how his Duster a car not all that radical was one of the fastest cars in the area. He had no tubs or NOS or Super Charger.
How did he win races? He would launch the car and it would hook up. He had altered the wheel base a little and some soft M&H tires and for every revolution they spun he was one circumference farther ahead of the other car.
He taught me back then how to win races and go faster. It did not involve some expensive smoky burnout. Yes todays burn outs are expensive on todays tires.
I would rather see GM do this and do it right in a car that is not just a big HP number but one that is much faster and will be around for more than a year.
This is a case where it is better to work smarter not harder.
Let me add if they want to do a Zeta for a send off for Australia like they are I am all for it, they deserve the HSV like they are getting. But to do one for the states too for just one year. Lets just work for the future.
Chevy,yThis was the purpose of Pontiac. Lutz wanted Pontiac to be positioned exactly as FCA is organizing Dodge.
I’m not sure Chevrolet it’s the right brand for muscle in 2015. Do a Sonic and SS for in the same showroom?
Chevy is officially a bread and butter brand. Maybe the blank cambia known as Buick, a brand that stands for nothing in today’s market, should be charged with covering former Pontiac space just as it does Saturn with Encore and Olds with Verano? Maybe the best Hellcat challenge would be the Grand National?
Chevy is not right to do performance? You have to be kidding. Over the years GM had 4 performance divisions one at each brand and the best selling had always been Chevy. Even today The Camaro and Corvette are the leaders here.
Chevy covers a lot of space just as Ford, Toyota and others.
Now with that said Chevy can do anything Pontiac had did in the last 30 years being that under the skin all most all the Pontiacs were Chevys anyways.
Now you would not do a Spark SS or such but a Sonic could be made into a ST fighter. If there is a Cruze 3 doors we could see a Cobalt SS replacement.
While it would have been nice to have some more performance options at GM the real work has been to rebuild the car lines that make the most profits. The performance brands too often anymore are just add on sales as the numbers outside the Camaro and Mustang are not all that high with most models.
The people who want performance are too young for cheap insurance and too under paid to buy the cars too often.
Lutz did want to save Pontiac but even he found he was too late. If he had arrived 10 years sooner they may have still been here with much better product.
The fact is when Pontiac died they only had two cars worth a damn and one of those was going to go away anyways in the Solstice as sales had dropped and like most two seat cars they see a limited life outside the Corvette and Miata. 5-10 years is all most see anymore like the RX7, 300Z and others.
Time to bury Pontiac and keep the true memory alive not the smelly corpse.
Why spend money on a car which is already dead? And there is the risk that despite higher horsepower, it could be DOA mainly due to it’s hopelessly boring generic styling.
Reports have said that Dodge intends to stop building all Hemi V8 engines by 2019; but FCA Chairman Sergio Marchionne wants a merger between Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles and General Motors, if there’s a merger between General Motors and FCA, the new General Motors-FCA would immediately kill off the Dodge brand meaning all Hellcats may be dead as soon as 2017-2018 and translates to meaning no need to build a Hellcat contender as it’ll either become a GM product or dead.
No one wants a merger with FCA except Sergio. GM would take a poison pill before that.
And if it did happen, I can’t see a new GM-Chryco keeping Hellcat. The lawyers would just go crazy, let alone the corporate culture with Chevrolet.
FWIW I really like the idea of Hellcat and encourage anyone who wants one to lay the money down. These things will be legendary – if not tomorrow, then next by next week.
This thread of comments makes great reading. I wonder if GM are watching what HSV do ? The new GTS ( GTS-R ? – in the original Yellow ? ) An Instant Classic. Customers are putting down deposits at quite a rate. This is going to be a Hell-of-a-Car and will go head to head with any Dodge , The ZO6 engine seems a done deal, and Ceramic brakes look to be a go, what other goodies can they put in it ? Track Computor, and any driver assist tools seem on the cards.
This is one car that will stay valuable and will defy depreciation as all of the Dodges will. In 20 years time the car to own will be a 2014/15 Dodge or a SS or GTS ( GTS-R) Classic status is assured. You can own and drive a Dodge in New Zealand for under a $100K ADD a $100K in Australia, They have Luxury Tax and compulsory RHD laws to contend with. The NZ Transport Dept. allows about 750 cars in the country as ‘specialty enthusiast cars’ each year, which is taken up enthusiastically.
I would estimate the new VF-2 GTS to have similar performance to the CTS-V , as long as they put the special Michelin tyres on it. It has come down to how the Manufacturer and the Tyre companys can get the power to the road to produce the amazing times and performance that is happening.
For me , I hope a lot of 2008/9 Walkinshaw owners need to sell their 7 Litre HSV Commodores ( hand built Factory Rocket – 375 Kw ( 505 HP ) approx. dry sump ) to buy a new GTS so I can get into a serious classic a bit cheaper ! Either that or a CTS-V Coupe ( even with the lesser HP than the CTS-V ) from the USA.
As a footnote , RHD Mustang sales down under are staggering, to be delivered soon !
Nuh…. Just let the old girl die in peace.. I wont be returning to this site. It’s too depressing..
The SS is the most 5 star rated vehicle to come out of GM , that I can ever recall !. Some people whine about it’s looks , but thousands of avid members of the Chevy SS forums think otherwise . I will go for understated every day of the week , it is the perfect sleeper , guaranteed to wake up any vehicle beside you at the traffic lites . Sales are up this year and THE BIG PROBLEM IS getting stock , lack of color choices and delivery problems . This will be a classic for years to come , the best Chevy sedan ever produced !! By the way , the Hellcat , I’ve read somewhere lately , that it is due to be discontinued within 2 years….I would put a more modern Corvette V8 in the SS and it may materialize . What a way to go out of production ….. WOW !
Idk why people keep talk about the marketing of this car. I dont know why people care, if you like it buy it if you don’t, don’t buy it. Why spend money to market something that you don’t put out a lot of?
I was just at the chevy dealer and they had a SS as a show room car, first time sitting inside and everybody there was interested. Most didn’t know what it was, but they thought it was nice. As it is.
I think they need to build a Chevelle that has 800 horse power just for the hell of it .
They need to bring back a Chevelle to clean house with Ford Mustang and Dodge Demond. That being said it just needs to be bad ASS no options package.