The twin-turbocharged 3.6-liter V6 LF4 racing engine currently employed in Cadillac Racing’s new ATS-V.R may be used in Holden’s next-generation V8 Supercars racecar, according to a report from Speedcafe. The new racer would apparently be based upon the second-gen Opel Insignia, which is expected to replace the current-gen Commodore in Australia in 2017.
V8 Supercars rules currently allow manufacturers to race with a V8 whether the road car is available with an eight-cylinder engine or not. Nissan and Volvo are expected to continue using a V8 in their S60 and Altima V8 Supercars, but with the discontinuation of the rear-drive Commodore, Holden will switch over to a V6.
“We’ll make sure that we’ll only race what we sell,” Holden motorsports manager Simon McNamara told Speedcafe in an interview. “We won’t race a car that’s sold with a four-cylinder and have it racing around with a V8 in it. We won’t do that.”
Teams are eager for Holden to make an official announcement in regards to the future of its V8 Supercars program, however McNamara said General Motors is waiting for the race series to clarify more details on its ‘Gen2’ rules before making key decisions. It seems like an appropriate time to switch over to V6 power, with Cadillac Racing using a six-cylinder for the first time this year.
“We’re in the fortunate position of having a North American division with a motorsport operation that’s significantly larger than mine with a big bucket (of engines). They’re doing a lot of work on a whole range of engines,” McNamara said.
“We’re in dialogue with those guys about what might work out of what they’re doing and then a little bit of stuff about where we’re thinking. Fortunately we’re able to tap into that to determine what our actual package might be,” he added.
Further information in regards to Holden’s V8 Supercars program may become available after the race series new engine and body shape regulations are clearly laid out. The governing body is expected to release more info in regards to the rule changes by mid-year.
Comments
I do not laugh. Why should I laugh
The name of the competition is V8 super car not V6 super car and why not put a V8 in the next Commodore, mmmmmmmmmmmmm that’s not good.
The “V8” part of the name will be dropped as of 2017 though, reflecting the opening up of engine regulations. Currently only engines of a naturally-aspirated, five litre V8 are allowed for competition. The new engine regulations will allow turbo four and six cylinder engines to be used alongside the naturally aspirated five litre V8, with power and torque limits in place for all engine configurations. These new engine regulations would allow a turbo four or six to run provided it’s within those power and torque limits. I don’t see a twin turbo V6 being allowed for Supercar competition, but a version with a single intercooled turbo would be allowed
GM made the last great works of the 90s. hopefully we will again gm big doings. GM is moving in the big doings. It has already been done but it’s more an early start. I hope to succeed in re-gm
Well the V8 series used to be based on stock based cars but they are a series platform for RWD and FWD models. Now that most cars in the series are V6 models at best soon they may move to a V6 engine.
But with that said as much or more power may be on tap. Just because it is aV6 does not mean it will lack power or torque. Our TT V6 drag car at work was over 2,000 on gas. It also sounded great for a V6.
I suspect there will be some unhappy people but MFG’s want to use what they sell.
Just be glad they did not go FWD.
bloody nora,my world of cars is going hell…v6s racing around Bathurst..no rumble of a v8..just the blowfly sounding buzz of a v6 ..geez im pissed off…
Not just you Bob, remember what happened to Bathurst and the series the last time it moved away from the V8 formula? It died in the arse and only survived because the V8’s came back and revived the series, how Holden have forgotten this lesson so quickly is beyond me. As a man raised on Peter Brock and the almighty Holden’s killing Ford on the mountain I for one will drop Holden like a hot rock once they put a god damn V6 on the grid. I swear to god GM have employed some absolute fuck wit to see how quickly they can kill off Holden’s grass roots everyday man support. In 10 years time it wont be beer, snags and half naked women up on the hill but bloody high tea and scones.
Don’t be worried just yet. The Gen2 rules from 2017 onwards will still allow V8s to be run, just expect there to be a few less of them. On tracks such as Bathurst with long straights and big uphill rises, the V8 cars will be the ones to beat, while the turbo fours and sixes will have to deal with turbo lag amongst similar issues that the Sierras had (power used to come on and off like a switch, making them extremely difficult to drive with 600bhp). So for Bathurst, the cars still running a naturally aspirated V8 will be the ones up the front at the end of the day, as the fours and sixes will be pretty fragile with over 620bhp coming from them. It wasn’t until the GTRs were allowed to run Hollinger six speed manuals that they didn’t have any issues, either (and why they didn’t win Bathurst in 1990 and Gricey did with a HRT VL)
What will you be like for the 2025 Bathurst with electrics humming around?
If I did not know other Aussies I would have the impression based on the bunch we have here that you all are in the dark ages.
For years you have been an isolated market and that has changes. I am sorry for your losses as some cool things have gone away but if you would remain open minded enough for a short while you will find that many of the new things are not as you expect or describe.
Sure our V8 has been marginalized to only a few models here and elsewhere. The cost to buy one in a car is so expensive anymore and plus out side a couple cars the public will not buy them anymore. But have we lost performance? No!
Even my daily driver is just a 2.0 4cylinder but it will put down 1/4 mile times better than any of my past stock Big Block Chevys and will run close to many of todays V8 cars.
As for Turbo engines lag is not really much of an issue anymore and the ability to make massive amounts of torque and HP per liter is off the charts.
Also to add power it is much easier and cheaper as adding 60 HP can be done with just a change in Map Sensors and a computer flash.
Right now I am on pump gas with very little lag making 150 HP per liter at 23 PSI 315 FT LBS or torque. The V6 will easily top this in street trim and you will find the torque will easily pass up many of the V8 engines in street and race trim depending on the series rules.
Now I will grant you the sound is no where near as good but the performance is not lacking in any area.
Hell Top Gear BBC showed last night a 650 HP Rally Cross Golf that would launch faster than a F1 car on just 2.0 liters and was faster than many super cars around a circuit.
I am sorry if your market is changing but it time to wake up and find out the truth is you will have performance cars as fast or faster than what you have now. They may sound different but they will still perform.
In fact here just some of the plain everyday sedans here have more power and performance than some of our old Muscle cars of the past and these modern cars are not even performance models. They will go, stop and turn better than many of the cars from the 70’s and 60’s.
Hell we did not like Toyota here in NASCAR but with the failing of Chrysler there they saved help save the series from just being a two horse race. Change is not always fun or great but at times you just have to deal with it for the greater cause.
Even great V8 racers and engine builder like John Lingenfelter spent the last years of his life building Turbo 4 and V6 racers as he knew this was where the market was going. Even the car he lost his life in was a TT V6 that had over 2,000 HP in a Cavalier. You know the lag was not an issue as he ran 7 and 6.90’s seconds in the 1/4 mile if I recall correctly.
While you may not like them you need to stop the lies about the Lag, about the lack of power and the fragility of the engines. Just look around the world from Indy car to F1 and even the Tom Wakinshaw Jags years ago all have run V6 Turbo engines and even many small Turbo 4 engine successfully with nary any issue often beating many larger V8 models.
I have been in the racing industry for years and worked with many of the racers and MFG and know what can be done. So stop the BS as it will only make you look foolish in the end. I used to think the same way and believe the same lies and I learned the hard way what is truly possible.
you manhood is not based on the number of cylinders anymore as any size engine can be made to make large amounts of power and reliable Torque. You are just seeing MFG trying to tie their cars back closer to things they sell on the market which often is why there are racing it to start with. Also the fact is many of these series I will change with you and or with out you as the V8 is now the minority engine in the market. It once was the dominate but it now is the exception.
When life gives you lemon you find you can make some pretty potent Lemonade with the right fixings.
So before you go slitting any wrist lets just see what happens first. If someone shows up with a TTV that starts winning they all will be going to a similar combination.
Way to miss the point and what the hell does manhood have to do with the particular breed of Aussie grown race car i enjoy? I can appreciate the intelligence and clarity of thought that went into your post but our race series is called the V8 supercars, we all grew up watching V8’s at ridiculous speeds racing around a mountain. Alot of us don’t care if its a bloody quad turbo 2500 bhp V6 that smashes all records. Why cant you yanks get it through your thick bloody heads that we don’t have to embrace something just because GM and apparently the American car enthusiast says so? For a nation that prides itself on taking shit from no one and making your own way in the world a lot of you seem to be willing to just accept a situation, well i and many others are bloody not. After 2017 when there is no Aussie car running around the mountain in a V6 just watch the tv numbers and gate takings drop, GM can take my V8 daily driver but messing with my favorite race breed means a divorce GM. Its starting to really piss me off that everyone thinks we should just shut up and accept it, to those that think that i raise you all my middle finger.
Oh Scott 3 you wont hear me talk about lag and what new engines can do and all that crap, i know full well in this day and age that almost any engine of any capacity can be worked to a reliable and large amount of power for a race engine. But that does not mean i have to like them or want them in our home grown Aussie series, you are aware of a thing called personal preference i hope Scott 3 and no amount of telling me and many others how great a certain engine is will change that, i mean really if we wanted to follow turbo cars, 4cyl cars, rally cars etc we wouldn’t be invested emotionally as fans in the V8 supercars would we? pretty self explanatory that one.
See no missed point as you are just not open minded to accept similar or even in some cases greater performance because you are focused on one single engine.
The fact is the best things in life are varied and different and should all be enjoyed. You appear to limit yourself to only one thing.
The fact is the world is moving on and if you do not remain open to new things you will get left behind in the dust.
This is not about Tea and Scones this is just about companies trying to market things that they really make and sell or at least as close as they can come. Hell we got Toyota here in NASCAR racing an engine that is not even anything close to a production engine.
If the racing is good the naked women and beer will always be there no matter what the cylinder count is. With Turbo engines based on a production engine it might just shock you how well they will do.
The fact s the world does not revolve around Holden and the fact is the large RWD V8 sedan is a segment that just is not cheap anymore and as large. You can look even in your own country you had only one company left and their sales in this segment have declined for years.
Don’t get me wrong I love a good old V8 RWD but when a Mazda 3 is your best selling model and Toyota is the best selling company in the country you had better pay attention as the market is shifting like a land slide.
Piss and moan all you like but it is the market that determines what sells and that has changed much. Add in the Global market and it creates another factor.
At some point I would not be surprised to see a Camaro or other RWD V8 available but like here it will not be cheap.
In the mean time keep your option open as even the small engines today can out power and out run many of the past V8 coupes sedans.
My 2.0 will do 13’s in the quarter mile and 160+ top end and is reliable as the day is long. The only real pain is the FWD has a hard time hooking up as it loses traction all the way up to 55 MPH if I hammer it. The first time it happened I thought something broke as the traction control came in at 55 MPH.
I think we shall agree to disagree Scott 3, I’m quite open and have been to many changes in the things i love but sadly my favorite race car is not one of them. Its a deal breaker for me, I never thought i would say this but I will have to retire my Holden/GM clothes and loyalty at the race track and jump ship to Mercedes who will be still racing the type of car i like or I might just forget about motor racing in this country for good. If you knew me Scott 3 my life is quite varied and open to many different things like the time i tried sheep’s balls at a Moroccan restaurant in Amsterdam or I learnt to drive LHD for when i visited the states or the time i tried an ice bath in the highlands of Tasmania, matter of fact i cant think of anything id say no to except my favorite race car since I was 5 years old disappearing. Its not just pisses and moans either, there are many of us here in Australia who feel the same way. The better part of me wants to wish GM well after it alienates all of us dyed in the wool live for Holden types but i must admit i cant as GM will pretty much kill off everything I truly love with 4 wheels and an engine. By the way you missed the last part of my post about knowing what modern engines can do in all the different displacements, types of induction etc, I wont be shocked at all by what ever numbers the turbo 6 throws up in Aussie track guise but does it interest me is what i was getting at, the same as i was saying that V8 supercars here built its massive following on obviously V8’s. As far as not accepting change or being left in the dust, GM better be damn sure it doesn’t leave so many people here in the dust after the changes as it may be left scratching its head as to where all the buyers and supporters went. My last point is Ive all ready given up on Holden as my supplier of my next domestic vehicle as they simply wont be selling what i want but other companies will. I didn’t make that point in my previous statements in this thread so i am wondering why you bought up daily drives as part of your response? Seeing as you went there though I would gladly put my 6.2 litre supercharged VF Calais against your FWD in any road test you wish to have unless it a contest for who has the most power at the front wheels on a dyno. I know im very passionate Scott 3 but at the end of the day isn’t that what makes us all car enthusiasts? I thought i should add that there are a great many cars i would love to drive and own from the Nissan, Pagini, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mercedes, BMW etc etc etc but as my original post states I only want to see one V8 Holden running around Mount Panorama Bathurst. Hope your having a good day Scott 3 and don’t take my fiery attitude over Australian racing personal, Its very close to my heart.
Oh i forgot to add that the supercharger is an after market modification, didn’t need all the statisticians adding its not sold in that configuration.
David nothing taken personal here but just passing along a message from someone who learned the hard way that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I too used to be narrow in thought but I finally started driving and enjoying many different models and configurations that are now out there.
You may love one kind of beer but if that is all you try you will miss the many others that are as good or better.
The fact is engines like this are not just for supercars anymore. My little daily beater is just a econo box but with super powers. It was cheap to buy and drive and I learned there was more to this performance game than just one engine.
I brought up daily drives as that is why companies race. They race to sell product and if they are not selling a V8 soon what good will it be to continue to race one.
Your sedan series is becoming much like out NASCAR while where the cars may appear stock they are anything but. Most NASCAR racers are very modified advanced race cars that can challenge the best from many other MFG in many Series. The fact Is you will see a Turbo V6 over there soon in the future and the MFG want to promote the power plants they will be selling or at least a modified version of their power plants.
Holden has done a Chevy with the Win on Sunday sell on Monday. The more stock they can put back into these series the better.
Like stated I work in the racing industry and I can tell you that marketing is what keeps racing alive. You make this into a spec series and it will soon die as MFG’s will lose support. You may not think it will happen but look back to some of the greatest series we have had here like Trans Am, Can Am and IMSA. These series have all died come back and died as they did not support the marketing end of the racing and lost their support.
I will warn you if they do not make the MFG’s happy there your series will die. Once a couple drop out the others lose interest as they do not want to just race their own teams. You have to beat the other guy and if he leaves then why bother. That is what killed Trans Am and Can Am.
Like i said Scott 3 i agree to disagree, I’m far from narrow minded and by the way i love all beer except the citrus flavored stuff (yes i tried it) but i have as much interest in watching a turbo 6 in a Holden competing in our race series as i do watching paint dry. Anyway were both flogging a dead horse here, If your ever in Australia email me and ill buy you a beer so we can have a car enthusiasts drinking session with a few laughs, some tears and hopefully a respectful middle ground, I might even show you my fathers support series team garage.
I may have to take you up on it. My company does a lot of business down under anymore and maybe I may get a chance to go down under on one of our trips.
I have a few offers in Perth if he is in from the mining camps and even a few on the east coast too. If I get there I may not be thirsty!
As for watching a V6 or a V8 just put ear muffs on and you will never know the difference.
If you want noise avoid the Audi Diesels. I was watching their Lemans car do laps here at a local track and you can hear the air over the wing it was so quiet. LOL!
Hey guys.. I read all these petty comments about who knows the most about what and you all pumping up your own tyres and, You know what I’d like to see? I’d like see our Government say, if you want to sell cars in this country, you have to build facilities to build or engineer or test your cars in this country. ie EMPLOY PEOPLE. Who races with what engines when and where is irrelevant. Who cares!! I’m talking about our children’s future and if there’s no work here, we wont be arguing the point over who spends untold millions of dollars to win a race if no one can afford to go and watch it! Get a grip!! Our auto industry has been sold out because of free trade agreements and protected industries in other countries, including the US. This is more important than whether Holden or Ford use electric motors or 2 stoke engines!
In most of these sections i agree with you ex holden mate and im all ways saying the real tradgedy of the situation is the workers and their families but this article was about racing and I just got into a heated discussion in regards to the racing side of things. Please dont think me to be callous in regards to the people who will lose their jobs.
Sorry David, I do get fired up about the whole Holden thing, but I find it hard to accept that our American and European friends just seem to cast us aside so flippantly. In future, I should keep my comments in context
I am an engine man. That was my job for 24 years… My heart says 5.0 litre V8….. My head says V6 twin turbo. They’re only made to look like road cars anyway, they’re all basically the same underneath. At least we’ll still have the V8 Ute series! Now that’s pure racing I reckon!!