During the 2015 Chicago Auto Show, we had the opportunity sit down with Bill Wallace, GM’s director of global battery systems, and discuss a bit about the 2016 Chevrolet Volt and how batteries are going to be an increasingly integral part of the automotive industry. More on that later, however.
In our interview, we brought up the “T” word. “T” standing for Tesla Motors, owned by firebrand billionaire Elon Musk. And while we are of the take that Tesla and GM products don’t exactly compete toe-to-toe, it was interesting to hear Wallace’s take on the company. And while he acknowledges the engineering prowess that went into building the Tesla Model S, General Motors has no intention of using the California company’s now-openly-sourced patented technologies currently.
Ultimately, General Motors plans on being an EV frontrunner in its own way, as Wallace pointed to the fact that GM itself holds the most “green” patents of any automaker. It could be sheer stubbornness that GM chooses not to use Tesla patents in good faith, or it could just as well be that GM has enough resources and technology to create something that’s even better than a Tesla in the future.
Comments
No major automaker will tie in here as Tesla hold not magic that they already don’t have or can create on their own.
The only way any major players will take this deal is if they buy out Musk and I don’t see that happening.
Google, Uber, and yes Apple as well as Amazon driveless autonomous vehicles – driveless taxis bring obsolescence to the auto industry as you know it. Driving excitement is the only thing that will slow it down. That is the EV platform design from ground up. The skateboard is a good example. The automobile of the future requires 10 times the electronics than 1980. That means BEV. Tesla has the magic because they saw it ten years ago and most automaker like industry leading Toyota refuse to see it. The auto industry is under the belief that they can still dictate the future to the consumer. The revolution has arrived and they are asking “what revolution?” Young interested in their smartphone than driving a car, silicon valley not Tesla is coming to eat their food.
The industry is changing to driverless technology and it may either increase our reduce units sold.
The high capital nature of the industry plus costs related to new modular architectures and electrification will transform the industry killing off the weak links like FCA while aiding research Savy companies like GM.
I see Apple and Google buying up bankrupted companies as the backbone for new firms.
Yeah nobody except for BMW, Nissan, Daimler and Toyota. I think most makers are using their Supercharger Station and some battery storage tech.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, any startup can build a very simple product that no one has mass produced yet with no innovation what so ever, and everyone will worship them like gods. With that being said, there is nothing tesla has done that is very hard to do, the one question worth asking is why hasn’t the general created something similar of its own as of yet? Hopefully the CT6 is that halo product Cadillac needs to boost reputation and sales
Why has the general not done it yet. Well because there was a little thing called the bail out that first had to be done and the revamp of all their lines that pay the bills first.
Tesla is still not making money here last quarter they lost $10K per car.
Hog wash, GM sold out or folded to the pressure of the fossil industry and watch the consumer cry while they crushed the EV long before the bailout in 2009. Stop thinking everyone is a idiot, or that we don’t recognize a spin.
I don’t think everyone is an idiot as you are in the minority. most people use better judgment. . It is foolish to have considered the Impact a viable long term car. While GM learned from it there was no way at the time to make money with it.
I have been in the Impact and can tell you while it was electric it was far from a really good car. I would term it a start at best. the issues with failed poor batteries back then it would have been looked at as just another 8-6-4 Cadillac a product released too soon before it could be sorted out.
You see some dopy movie that really was not giving all the facts and you buy it hook line and sinker.
the reality is the Oil industry could not afford to pay enough money to stop a viable car that would save a automaker form the issues and cost involves with meeting 53 MPG averages by 2025. This is going to cost billions of dollars to meet and will cost many customers as they will not like many of the vehicles that are to come.
Also factor in the oil industry is well vested in other forms of energy and are ready to make the move to what ever is needed once a path is found. If need be they will sell electricity, hydrogen or farts if that is what things will run on and they will make money no matter what the product.
You have been sold a bill of good buy the Michael Moore’s of the world and they are getting rich on you back while they point out everyone’s alleged sins.
Do you realize how many years the 100 MPG Carburetor story has been around. It is something may foolish people claim exist but yet no one has seen it and at a time the Automakers could really use it never appears. Not because of some spin or conspires but because it never existed.
You can be sure if there was one the guys in NASCAR would have had it years ago when they had carbs.
Time to get in the real world. If there is a way to make mega miles cheap and easy any auto maker would take that to the bank and make more money on cars than all the oil producers could ever pay them.
Besides they can’t even hide what the new cars look like without leaks don’t you think someone would have talked by now and provided proof?
Sorry but I tire of the half baked people that do not consider all the real factors and only pick and choose what works in their grand schemes.
It seems like the answer is still Oil, I don’t know if they benignity from this, secret deal with oil regimes but it remains that they don’t want noon oil/gas reliant cars out yet. Also if their argument is there aren’t enough electric stations etc.. In sure they can build it & they’ll get all the $ they put into building them right back, also if the milage of these new ev cats are limited to 200/300 miles a full charge, then I’m sure that battery’s will evolve at light speed with crazy acronym’s to go with them. IMO it would be a good move to make & like the first cars, they were all electric until oil=Mc$ came into play. We will realize how much we screwed ourselves innovation wise. Hopefully gm could make something great since I believe they know more about what the average person wants at a cheaper price too.
If GM has something better and Tesla has nothing special then build a better BEV than Tesla. Walk the walk don’t talk the talk.
Build a beautiful full size sedan with 270 miles of all electric range that does 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds.
And use GM’s manufacturing prowess, economies of scale and global distribution network to give me a price significantly below $80k.
Don’t give me a subcompact box with up to 200 miles of range for $37,500.
For $37,500 give me a 225 EPA mile all electric range Cadillac CTS that is comparable to an ICE CTS in every other way.
And give me access to a national fast charging network of 120 kWh or better.
Stop offering gimped BEVs that can’t compete with similarly priced ICEv. Give me a GM BEV that is just as good as an equally priced GM ICEv.
Robb the fact is the only thing Tesla did was prove there was a segment that you could build a large EV sedan and sell it for $100K when no one else said it could be done. The next thing they have to prove is you can do It long term with increased competition.
This is like the California Gold Rush where the first guy who found the gold made the most of it first but in the end he was lost in the shuffle by the many who came after his discovery was found.
Building limited models at a high cost is not hard but making money is difficult when you are not the only one there.
The X model will help but it is far from enough for long term viability. The only talked about 3 model is a must that they need to meet the volume needs they must meet to reach needed volumes to sustain the company into the future.
As for reality you are not even playing with that First off the CTS is not going to be an EV let alone one for $37K even with an ICE if you want a steering wheel.
Cadillac is coming with a EV sedan in the near future and other makes will come with them too. Tesla is just not going to skate along and with the delays of the X and 3 they may be in trouble even to update the styling and engineering changes to the S model.
The fact is Tesla needs growth to use the batteries they have coming as no one else is going to buy them. This is a house of cards and while it may be built it will only take one thing to go wrong and they all will fall.
The Bolt if it makes the $37 before government kick back and if they do achieve the 200 real world range it will be a great accomplishment. The key to this is even if GM does this car their future is not hinged on the success or failure of this car as Tesla is on all their product when ever it gets here.
If Tesla has any set backs as most companies do it will be up to Musk to bail them out and the question is how much money does he toss at it before he pulls out or will his ego keep him spending?
The EV segment is really still a new growth market and there are still many unanswered questions. Musk answered one on how much people will pay but there are so many more that still need to be found out.
The segment will get cheaper and better with time but for now things will still be a little expensive and a little experimental.
My fear is if Tesla ever does tank I hope it is by the time the other MFG have gotten their product to market as so not to damage the segment.
Right now Tesla has only really proven this segment a couple years ago and cars like this take a little more time to develop and are more difficult to build economically. I think in about 2 years we will see many more full EV models arrive and they will make Tesla just another player. It is to be a hero when you are the only one in the room.
There are others coming that have deeper financial pockets and deeper reserves of research and development. They also do not fully rely on one rich guy and inflated stock values to progress. They have ICE production and trucks that make it so much easier to take risks.
The EV revolution has begun. Tesla Model S was the official start. Tesla is just a nice surfing wave. The only thing that can save the auto industry from the coming tidal wave and minimize the damage is bringing back driving excitement.
In a couple of weeks Tesla will be releasing their automated supercharger. In five year when autonomous driving begin, you can sleep from NY to CA. Driverless Taxis is the enemy, not BEV, not autonomous vehicle and certainly not Tesla. PRIDE comes before the fall. “The revolution will not be televised”.
Pride before the fall is GM in the 70s 80s 90s and then bankruptcy.
And right now there is no one with more pride than Elon Musk right now is there?
The Gigafactory is not a burden it is a moat. It gives Tesla economies of scale in Batteries that GM,Toyota, and VW don’t have combined. Mercedes is buying Tesla powertrains and Toyota wanted a bigger deal on electric powertrains than Tesla could manage as of last year.
Billions in R&D and CapEx are great but pointless to the future if you don’t spend on BEV tech and battery capacity. Spending billions on ICE tech to meet CAFE and EU carbon emission standards is burning cash. You have to jump with two feet into the BEV space to compete with Tesla. The half assed prototypes previewed by GM,VW Group, Nissan-Renault Alliance et all will not impinge on Tesla in the least.
Half assed car plus 1/4 assed charging Network can not compete with Tesla.
Re Musk he is all in. He invested his last $40M dollars in capital into Tesla in 2007 when Tesla’s prospects were much worse.
Tesla does not rely on one rich guy. On top of several billionaires that have significant positions in Tesla like Larry Paige,Ron Baron, and Sergei Brin institutional investors account for 58% of Tesla float.
A year ago Tesla raised $2.3B in convertible notes in less than a week 100 basis points below the minimum for the companies with similar credit.
When you are trailblazing nothing is proven unit you actually do it.
ICEv did not prove they could replaces horses and become something more than a toy for rich guys until Henry Ford proved it.
iPad’s were an unproven concept until Steve Jobs proved it.
Elon Musk is Henry Ford and Steve Jobs rolled into one.
And an iCar designed in CA and built in Austria by Manga Steyr and retailed at a starting price of 100k is not a serious Tesla competitor. Less so if built by Foxconn in either China. Model S starts at $69,900 and has an Average Selling Price of $106k.
I want serious competition to Tesla. It validates BEVs as normal not something weird for eccentric millionaire hippies in California. And it transitions us way from oil dependency to energy independence quicker. And cleaner air is nice too.
So far there is no direct competitor to Tesla on the horizon and Tesla has at least a five year lead on everybody.
Crippled BEVs and/or combined with gimped charging networks is not serious competition to Tesla.
Here is the issue for the factory. It is built on a foundation that they have the volume of cars to take most of the load and Panasonic I believe since they are involves.
Right now they are pushing for houses to eat up these batteries too to make the volume needed. And to be honest as fast as other things like Solar Panels are selling that is a hard sell.
The Solar and eco energy segment is not going to live unless the government comes in and this may be what they hope happens.
You like to use Ford and Jobs as examples. Well if you do you must use all their examples. Yes they did break through in many areas but they also failed often before, during and after they made it.
Ford failed with other companies including with Ford as the one we have today is the second Ford motor company not the first. Jobs screwed up on many more projects than he sucessed but he was in a place where he could afford to fail Tesla is a company with only one chance and will flounder under he weight if the share holders flee if sales tank or the they fail to produce a profit at some point.
The real world bottom line Is that Tesla has a long road ahead that will take a lot of things to go right to make it. It can be done but there is little room for error. Selling $30K cars is not all that hard.
The hard part is to increase sales in the future and the ability to build a volume model that will help sustain the company. It will also be difficult to continue move forward as it will take a lot of capital to meet the numbers quoted. Such as the plant they are in was good for 300K cars only and he wants to build more. He will not get another plant free as he did in California.
Like a car going faster and faster a car company takes more and more capital to expand and grow. The first 100 MPH takes only so much HP but the second 100 MPH can take 4 times the power. The same here as a company grows and has no volume car.
I would not bank on the 3 as of yet as we have not even seen a sign there is one that is not on paper. The X model is how late now? Just imagine if the wing doors flop as they have in most cars.
They are a blast in the rain as rain does not always come straight down. Just think about the mother strapping her kid in with a strong rain coming right in. The novelty wears off fast. Just ask a Delorean owner.
Keep dreaming. You want a BEV for the same price as an ICE?
A BEV is a premium driving experience and from here forward, you can always expect to pay more for a BEV than an equivalent ICE, even if battery prices were to come down considerably.
You sound just like the Telsa fan-boys that want the Model 3 to have the performance and all the premium features of the Model S for 1/2 the price. Come back to reality.
As others have said, Tesla has nothing special in their patents. Their cars are not magic. GM, Ford, and others could do exactly what Tesla has done but for less money. The difference is that Tesla had the balls to push forward, even though the business case and market were not there yet. You can do that when you’re not a publically traded company.
Clueless, Tesla is the answer to the automotive industry, and here is why.
Google, Uber, Apple and a couple other companies will turn the automobile industry upside down with their driverless autonomous vehicle – taxis. The new generation is not interested in the driving, they are interested in their smart device. Economic, freedom, service and piece of mind leads to autonomous driverless taxis- This is the future no stopping it. Wait maybe, there is driving excitement? Tesla has already shown that they deliver driving excitement, ask any Tesla owner about his or her ‘Tesla Grin”. The EV revolution has begun. Five year is all the time auto manufacturer have to be proactive. To be honest, a smart auto manufacture would take Tesla up on their offer and quickly improve their understanding of the EV platform. “The revolution will not be televised”, but it will be electrified.
Oh we have a new Tesla Zealot I have not seen you post the crazy stuff yet. Nice to see we have another in the rotation.
Until it is cheaper to buy, charge, use and repair an EV car over the long term it will be a slow growth segment.
The fact is it is not a revolution it is just an alternative in the market segent that once got little funding and today is getting the most it has seen in it’s history that will grow it but it would be hard pressed to call the S model a revolution.
As for grins I see it in many cars as most people who have it are predisposed to the model they bought and one that they feel they bought well. I call them happy with their purchase but not always well in tune to the market.
I ponder how the spin would go if Musk’s company does fail. I expect the conspiracy charges will fly that the other automakers all ganged up on them. Watch you will see that if it happens even though this is a major risky venture and he is working only on the next that he would have to bail it out if things go wrong.
Can we have a moratorium on GM fans talking about other car companies that might fail in the future and any spin and or “bailing out” that might happen as a result?
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/currency/mbpt-spotlight-mtv-study-debunks-myths-about-millennials-and-their-cars-offers-advice-how-automakers-can-tap-demo/137379
Wanna try again?
Thanks Doug.
This is a case where you both are right. The car is not a primary thing with many young people in many metro areas anymore but all hope is not lost as what you have posted is also true where they are still interested in cars in most areas. It just depends where they live. The majority will still need them.
The only thing that really has changed is most of them just want something that gets them to work or school and really don’t car as much of the image of the car.
A lot of that has to do with the fact they can not afford much of the new performance cars and as of now most of the old ones are out of reach too. The days of the Chevelle SS 396 for $2K is long gone.
But on the other hand none of them are going to own an electric car or a Tesla for the next 10-15 years either unless mom and dad give them one. Elon can expect their money too soon unless they start their own Dot Com company.