We’ve talked at length about the numerous changes happening over at Cadillac, such as the brand’s planned move to New York City, its new naming convention and more. Cadillac landed itself in hot water recently following remarks from its marketing team which concerned Cadillac fans and other automotive enthusiasts, as they seem to care more about the brand’s image than its cars.
The two controversial remarks came from current Cadillac CMO Uwe Ellinghaus and brand manager Melody Lee. Ellinghaus was quoted in saying “My boss (Johan de Nysschen) and I always say we want to build the first luxury brand that just happens to make cars. That sounds like a joke, but we’re serious about it.”
We don’t need to hear any more complaints about the changes happening over at Cadillac, but MSN gathered some up anyways for a recent article. Industry analyst Peter De Lorenzo said “projecting Cadillac as a luxury brand unto itself–one that happens to make cars as some sort of glorified sideline–is nonsensical and a fool’s errand,” in reference to Ellinghaus’ remarks.
Lee, meanwhile, stirred the pot when she said “everyone in New York is always just a little bit ahead of everyone else,” and followed up with “I don’t buy products, I buy brands. We need to show drivers what the Cadillac lifestyle is all about.”
We actually have faith in the marketing team, and like it or not, we think Lee has a point. City folk are usually ahead of the curve when it comes to trends and style, it’s not just a stereotype, and people do buy brands instead of products, with Lee rightly using Apple as an example. Ellinghaus already said Cadillac “has enough petrol heads,” so now it’s time to win over the rest of the buyers where marketing focused on performance just won’t fly.
But the question remains, is Cadillac’s planned direction wrong, or are the critics just late to see the light? It’s impossible to tell at this point, as not even de Nysschen, Lee and Ellinghaus can be 100 percent confident any of their marketing tactics will work. We know the brand has great cars and is working on introducing more, so is it really such a big deal if they take a different marketing approach? After all, the buyers will come anyways if the cars are great, according to many critics.
We’d like to echo Johan de Nysschen’s statements to sum up how we feel about this matter: Let him and the engineers focus on making great cars, and let the marketing team focus on making the coolest brand in town. This may come as a surprise to some, but they’re marketing experts, and happen to know a thing or two about shaping a brand’s image.
Comments
The simplest answer I have is perception. Many people have the perception that foreign is socially better. It is more stylish, it is of better quality, it makes me look smart and educated, and is what the cool and beautiful people own. This theme can also be said about the other domestic manufacturers, as well as many domestic industries. Look at Honda, Subaru, and VW commercials, they are geared at people wanting to look educated and fashionable just to make a statement of who they want to be; a white guy, who is educated, outdoorsy, and stylish.
This perception that foreign is better and domestic is not good is going to take a long time to change. If it ever does? That is why GM is going balls out in countries like China, instead of the U.S, because Chinese consumers think similarly.
Exactly, which is why we keep loosing GM divisions. All this foreign stuff to pick from that is perceived to be “better”.
GM in its ever present wisdom considered Cadillac equal to the long built reputations of the Mercedes Benz, Audi, Porsche, BMW …which took decades to build and establishing world recognition to a world vehicle. Cadillac hasn’t and with the new Cadillac CTS dropped a bomb in the huge price increase from the year before. A vehicle base that didn’t even have heated seats. Give me a break. Our beloved 2011 Kia Optima SX Turbo fully optioned has more luxury options then a CTS base at $10k more and our warranty is the best in the industry. We had one recall that was actually fixed the week we received our new car and since then its been quality first. In the first 27k miles the only cost has been oil/filter changes. Tires will be replaced in the next few months along with the wiper blades and the air filter. It has been apparent that the owners of BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc do not consider Cadillac relevant. In addition the owners of the latter wouldn’t even consider one. Who is Cadillac anyway? Who are their marketed customers? Is a Cadillac entry level CTS base worth more than a Genesis from Hyundai at $5k less and the best warranty in the industry? Why is Mercedes along with Audi touting their entry level cars at a $30k base? Cadillac is $15k more for a base CTS without heated seats. How is the working man going to afford a entry level luxury car at a $45k base? My next vehicle may just be a entry level Lincoln MKZ hybrid k that includes heated seats and returns a whopping 36mpg combined. Now for Lincoln to up the warranty period and they just may have one more sale.
Repeating the same post? Allow me to do the same!
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The $30K Mercedes is a subcompact, of which Cadillac doesn’t have a comparable car on offer as of yet. Not only that, but the CTS isn’t even in the same segment (mid-size), so it’s meaningless to compare a CTS with a CLA. And no, the smaller ATS is a compact, not a subcompact.
For your knowledge, it goes like so:
City.
Sub-compact.
Compact.
Mid-size.
Large.
Full-size.
These detail physical widths and lengths. Heights are variable, but impact less upon the segments. Body styles, like coupes, wagons, and convertible, don’t demand their own categorization by virtue of the body shell. Automotive classifications, CO’s, SUV’s Sedan, are also bound by the same organization.
You’re value-pricing your way out of luxury market, which probably explains why you’re looking at a MKZ and pride yourself on owning a Kia. Have fun with your Kia and whatever hype Genesis the squeeze out; the owners of BMW, Audi, Mercedes will look down further upon the value-conscious Genesis and K900 owner sooner than they would that of the CTS.
Price doesn’t dictate matters in the luxury market, product does. Hyundai knows this all too well with their XG and Kia Amati failures; proving that they couldn’t shake down the established luxury market with a price-leading approach. There’s no luxury in those cars when they could be found parked outside a low-income apartment complex covered in dents and scratches, and Monster energy drink stickers.
The Optima and K900 will have to overcome THAT kind of public perception. It would better off if Hyundai simply built their own dedicated luxury brand unassociated with Hyundai and Kia; the distancing would prove to me that they could command CTS prices, and prices not unlike the Germans.
But, if you’ve resolved and reduced yourself to value shopping your way into a entry level MKZ (along with many thousands of other non-luxury, value-pricing, MKZ owner), then I can’t help you; it’s how you want to live your life.
BTW, put your stripper model mid-size MKZ up against the CTS. Luxury is about getting what you want, not what you expect. If you expect heated seats, then get your MKZ, because Ford knows they can’t ask more of the MKZ without the heated seats because nobody would buy them. The CTS, despite it sales being off by 3.5%, still offers the consumer what they want of the seats, heated or otherwise. The ATP is much, much higher than the MKZ, so Ford can sell as many thousands of MKZ at discount and will never enjoy the premium that the CTS can command.
Lol, I read both the posts earlier!!!! Hahahahaha
Not repeating a post here.
The problem here is as Cadillac declined so did their following. The people who used to buy Cadillac were T bone people and as time and quality slipped and prices fell behind the following became Ground Sirloin people.
Now you can continue selling the cheap stuff and continue to try to say you are going to compete with the class leaders or you can increase content technology and quality and then sell a real class leading car.
Sorry but this lets take an Epsilon and try to pass it off as a Cadillac with a base Camaro engine is not fooling anyone anymore. The cars we have today are better but still not what Cadillac needs. This is what the change this summer brought.
Now you can be foolish ands say that people will not buy it because it is American. Well there was a time where it was said they would not buy it if it is Foreign. What people don’t get is perceptions can be changed with time and the right product. That is what happened before and that is what can happen again if GM puts the best on the table and not just almost best.
Sure cheaper models like a Kia are offering many options standard and that is why Cadillac need to keep the price and make better cars with even better content. They get that now with the actions we are seeing. If they now understand they need their own engines it is not going to stop before they get inside the car too.
The fact that they are making traditional Cadillac buyers upset is a good sign a these people are not the kind of people ith the money for the right kind car in the first place or they type of car Cadillac needs to be.
This is not going to be an easy or fast transition. There will be some painful things they will have to so and pass through to get where they need to be. The key is GM sticks with this for the long run as this is not a 5 year deal. If they bail it will waste all the investment they would be putting in.
As long as GM fully commits to this and does so for the full long run they will be ok. This deal is not unlike starting over to be honest.
As it is if you hate the higher prices you are not Cadillac material after all. This is not a car for those who can not afford it as this cheapens the image. If you own one it displays the image that you have the means to afford the best. You do not see many high end cars in the parking lot of Big Lots do you? But you have seen way to many Lincolns and Cadillac’s in their parking lots over the last 25 years.
Things will work out if you just give them the time for the investment to work.
The fact is as Cadillac is now the CTS and ATS are loads better than what they had but they are still not totally where they need to be yet. Continue to improve the technology and the quality and give them a Cadillac only power plant then you will finally be getting to where they need to be.
My two cents is that while we’re all optimistic about the end results of these changes with Cadillac, traditional customers, as well as prospective customers, simply don’t see the short term positive outcomes of everything. These changes appear to be too large and too soon; at the end of the day, people simply don’t see any short term gratification: in the form of lower pricing, more product variety and better brand recognition. They refuse to realize that for Cadillac to achieve all these things it’s going to take time. Some feel that perhaps Cadillac should ease into the realm of higher pricing after establishing more brand recognition and cache. They also don’t see the relevance of the NYC move; maybe this decision should be postponed until after stronger brand cache and prestige is achieved. Then there’s the controversial nomenclature adopted by the brand, which over time may prove to be acceptable; but as it stands many feel it’s unnecessary and don’t see the logic in how this will contribute to the brand’s success. But Cadillac’s biggest dilemma is its sorry approach to marketing! This is perhaps where the rubber has to meet the road for all the long-term success to begin to be achieved! This brand has the best lineup in its history and little’s being done to properly showcase this! With many customers rather ignorant of what the brand has to offer, instead relying almost solely on word of mouth and internet users to help guide them to a decision on a vehicle purchase.
Much more can be said, but I’m no expert! So my two cents are worthless! At the end of the day, I want to see Cadillac establish a successful future, both short and long term! I’m looking forward to what’s to come, and I, for the most part, really like what Cadillac currently has in the stable! All we can do now is give’em time. Let’s see how Mr. de Nysschen and crew handles the task given to them to make Cadillac profitable and relevant!!!
I have owned German cars since the 70’s and recently took a stab at the ELR. A loaded car with all options and a 22 thousand discount to boot. I love the technology of PHEV and the design is a knockout. All that is missing is the exhilarating performance of a Tesla. To me, Cadillac has the tools but not the building materials to implement their plan. For customer retainage, they need to provide PHEV with E85 capability for their entire line to truly become an environmental leader. My ELR is the finest car I have ever owned and if it’s possible, GM should offer battery swaps for all owners to keep their clientele in place. Performance wars to me are passe. I am available to consult anytime being a NY native and experienced connoisseur of all quality brands. Finally, the critics are basically idiots as they buried the ELR about price and performance while being blind to the overall experience of incredible mileage, bulletproof quality and first class design.
A lot of long posts. For credibility, I have had both Cadillacs and BMWs simultaneously for over 10 years. With Cadillac pricing now on an equal basis, that will change. I unfortunately, for GM, end up all BMW. As to marketing and the path forward, I can only hope that Cadillac does better than Infinity did.
What kinds of BMW? Surely not the pricy new ones. It just seems strange that you would consider both a Cadillac and a BMW equal 10 years ago, but don’t anymore now that Cadillacs pricing is now on par with a new BMW and not, say, a used BMW.
You weren’t looking at new Cadillacs expecting them to be cheaper than a off-lease 3 year old BMW, were you?
I don’t see a problem with the ” ground sirloin ” type wanting to own a Cadillac . Better that they own an American luxury car than anything German or Japanese . If they bought one back in the 80’s or 90’s . those would be the customer that would return to the brand ,( aka, market share ) . The so called ( T-Bone ) people are the ones that have left the brand and bought something else . The facts are it will take Cadillac along time to change their image and just because their cars cost the same if not more than their competition is only going to turn more people away . I own a 2013 SRX performance AWD and I happen to like ground sirlion . I didn’t buy it for the prestige or try to make a statement to other drivers , I bought it because I liked it . And when the new one arrives I will be looking to trading for the new one , but there is this concept out there that you never buy the first year of production because those will be the ones with the glitches . ( That is all GM products ) , So I may end up withe the new Lincoln MKC .
So , lets just see what happens when the CT6 arrives , the quality can only be manufactured correctly if the engineering has been done right . I hope it comes out strong ! But time will tell . Everyone has an opinion , and there is no right answer , the public is the one that will eventually make Cadillac once again the Best in the World .
Zach you are not getting it.
The sirloin people are part of the image issue. The old People at the Boca Vista trailer park rec center do nothing to add to the Cadillac image nor much to their bottom line.
Sure they keep coming back because they get a nice car for a K mart price.
What others are missing is that the prices have gone up but so has the content of the cars. Not all of it is viable but it also has done things like making lighter faster and better handling. As time goes on the higher prices will continue to improve the content and the quality of the cars. If you lower the price you will just slow the whole deal down and do nothing for their image with the blue hair driving the cars.
It is well documented how Porsche tried to bring their products to the masses at cheaper prices in the 80’s. They found in a harsh way that while the volumes of sales increased they paid a price in image and really did not make money on the lines. They took a step back killed the 924 and 944 then focused back to the 911 at higher prices. They did go back to a cheaper car but no so cheap that it would damage the brand and also they are now making money.
People need to understand Cadillac is not a high volume brand mass public car anymore Their are aiming to be exclusive and make the money per exchange price not volume.
You can look at many other higher level models and brands out there and most limit their volumes to where they make money but remain in demand.
The key we also need to look at is the cars we have today are not the destination any longer. Last year these were considered good enough but Cadillac has been given the go ahead to go bigger and better so the models we have and the CT6 are just stepping stones to where they are targeting.
I just find it sad that many are willing to settle with Cadillac just being a low end luxury car and not wanting to see Cadillac become what they could become with the proper support.
We have seen something extraordinary here with GM willing to support Cadillac in ways old GM would have never considered. Letting them step away from the shadow of GM, Letting them build cars they would never have even considered a business case on, letting them so their own engines and I expect platforms at some point.
We are witnessing something special here and yet we have some who are upset the old ladies at the bingo hall can buy a Deville anymore? What the hell? You have one of the largest and most advanced corporations in the world willing to do what it takes to build one of the best cars in the world but yet you complain?
We are looking at something similar that VW did with Bentley only on a larger scale. VW took a old used up Rolls that was only re-grilled as a Bentley and took them to one of the premier cars in the world that even overshadows the old parent Rolls under BMW ownership. That is amazing we can see the same thing here if you really look at the way things are progressing.
I will warn you the CT6 is not what to expect of the future. The lets just wait and see is not going to work here. Yes it will be a good car but it is not the new direction of GM as they have only set their sights higher long after this car was locked in. The GM that built the CT6 was reluctant to do the platform for it and the GM that we now have is willing to go all out on something much better from engine to tires.
Some here really need to read up and learn the time line on this and you will see the CT6 and the present cars are not the new time line anymore. They were the first reset and now they have reset to a much higher level.
The Cadillac XT5 (formerly SRX) should be way better and more advance than the current SRX. Now I am not so sure why you think first year glitches only apply to GM products. All manufacturers in the auto business have first year glitches. I own two first year models from Honda and VW and they were not trouble free at all.
If you are serious about the XT5 for the next purchase, I would suggest to suck it up and buy it or wait for the second year and buy it. If you have read any reviews of the CTS in the long-term test from Car and Driver, Motor Trend and etc, they all are first year models and not one of them have problems and are trouble free.
So a first year product is a hit or miss with defects since a lot of them are volume produced. There are no guarantees and regardless of 2nd, 3rd, and etc, model year of the cycle you could have problems as well.
First year glitches? Where did I bring that up here?
Also you need to understand the XTS and SRX history.
As for first year glitches that one is pretty easy to explain on how many imports do better. It generally is so simple as America is no the first market most are released in. Generally they are released a year earlier in japan and Germany where we never see the small nagging issues here by their second year.
Might note too that in the last couple years many of the global GM cars are now released in China where they sort them out and by the time they are release here a year later the nagging issues are not worse than any other make.
As for the SRX and XTS both are products of the old GM released after the bail out. Both cars really were not all that bad but both were on a Old platform they had to use. Same with the Malibu as it was old GM on an older platform.
GM had two choices coming out of chapter 11. They could wait and lose more ground by missing new segments with the SRX and have no product in the show room for a couple years with the XTS or they could go ahead and finish the work they had started. It was a case where something was better than nothing as Chrysler has pretty much as done with their car lines for the last 5 yeas till the Dart and 200 arrived, even then it was a warmed over Lancia. While a warmed over Lancia is better than nothing in 5-6 years they should have done better.
As far as I see it the ATS and CTS are much better than what we had and are a step forward but they still need to do better. Now we have full commitment I expect we will see better.
As for the hit miss anymore on quality it hits them all . As for GM right now they sneeze and you hear about it while others vastly go unreported. GM has gone into fix everything mode due to the ignition deal and they are committed to not let any issues linger. They have no choice due to the media as if anything is missed they will condemn GM in grand fashion.
I think the coming SRX will be a marked improvement but with the new full commitment of GM in the last 6 months we will see it superseded in the future.
The XTS will fade into the service car segment and GM will use it as they did the Captiva to help protect the other cars from Livery sales. They pretty much tempered that when the car was released.
Also the T6 at one time was touted as the flagship. You hear no more of that talk anymore as those inside Cadillac are already working ahead now on a proper flag ship now they have the proper support.
For all intents they were on a slow road to improvement and in the last 6 months it was blown up for a full proper overhaul where GM for once committed to go all in to lead vs. just good enough to compete of which we have today.
My post was in response to Zach’s, not yours. My post was underneath yours when you thought it was in reference to you.
Well, for right now the CT6 will be the flagship until the CT7 and CT8 debut in 3-4 years. For right now the Escalade is the flagship since the CT6 is yet available.
Were good!
I love all of Cadillac’s new cars and SUVS. All I want for GM to do is to equip all Cadillac cars and SUVs with 8-speed transmissions throughout the model lines. Hence, this would increase performance and mpg.
GM should also get its 10-speed and 4.5 V-8 diesel in the Escalade as an option, to further increase its advantage in that segment. Other GM trucks and SUVs should be included of course
First off I never said Cadillac was the only one that you would find glitches in the first year of production . And Scott3 if you want to get personal , The statement you made about 2 classes of MEAT , could be taken as discriminatory . I want to use the “R” word but I have more class than that . Just because you reply with 10 + paragraphs on this subject does not mean you are right ! The fact is you do not know anymore about Cadillacs future than a gypsy withe her crystal ball at some circus venue . And I do subscribe to Car and Driver and Motor Trend and Automobile magazines ! I also read New Car Test Drive and Wards Automotive and Media Online, Motor Week ,Autoline Detroit etc.. I know what I read , it doesn’t make me an expert and I would never claim to be . The CTS and ATS are fine automobiles and I know they are not meant for the K-Mart crowd ! That is what Chevy is for and most Japense Junk .
This is a forum for peoples ideas . You Scott3 are no more right than anyone else . You must shop at K-Mart , because that store never even crossed my mind . But you can pretend you are better than others as you hide behind your computer screen .
You must have alot of time on your hands to consitantly flood this forum with your non- senicle diatribe .
Zack if you are going to be ignorant enough to allude to it then say the damn word “racist”. Why don’t you also blame it on global warning, and the grand jury in Ferguson too as you seem to not really understand the reality of this segment or the real use of the term. You really need to learn what real racism is before you start tossing around terms like that just because you don’t agree with me or anyone else here. I said you were not getting it and that is not a personal attack just a observation that you were not getting what I was trying to say . If you have a valid opinion make it but don’t go around accusing people of things that are not true or that you really do not understand the meaning of.
The fact is image knows no race anymore. White, Black, Asian a mix of it all appears on shows like MTV cribs, House Wives of Atlanta to Beverly Hills and other shows that feature the homes, cars and life styles of people with money. There are plenty of shows that play to the vanity of people that all strive to and this is what drives image. People see that generally the cars people like this drive are not something the average person can buy. Unfortunately Cadillac got to the point where they were a car the average Joe could buy easily and that did nothing to endear them to the young and up coming folks in the 80’s and has hurt them with each generation since.
Here is my point. My buddy when he graduated with his masters in his early 20’s bought a Cadillac because he got a better deal on it than a Regal? Now do you understand what is wrong with this picture? He bought it because it was cheap not because he wanted the prestige or image. That is so damaging for a brand. Good for him since he got a good deal but bad for Cadillac. Real luxury should not be a bargain and should not be held by just anyone. Hell some of Ferrari’s new top cars are only sold to people they approve to buy them. Snooty and snobbish yes exclusive and image building for sure.
Not all but many people buy a Benz and BMW because they feel it improves their image and standing. It shows they can own something that few others can afford. Call it superficial and vain but that is what this segment is all about.
I have seen many a person who likes to flaunt it and that is what these cars are all about. They represent many times the fastest, the must luxurious and the most technically advanced. The truth is we all could just as easy get by in life in a Chevy Sonic. I have known many a millionaire that drives a simple cheap car many times used and often that is why they are rich because they know not so much on how to make money but how to keep It but that is another story.
I read your comments and you are happy basically with Cadillac being at the low end of the luxury market that is dying. the average price of a car is now around $35K and that is what you find on a sticker on a loaded Malibu. GM is best equipped to leave the moderate segment to Buick.
Zack this statement you made “I don’t see a problem with the ” ground sirloin ” type wanting to own a Cadillac is a very dangerous and flawed comment. Have we had enough of these years from the 70’s to just a few years ago?
Finally why even sell a high end luxury car? Simple Profits. these cars rake in more money for a company than anything else but trucks. They sell few of these cars but they are the most profitable by far. In the future the truck segment is at risk as it will have to evolve with the closing CAFE regulations. This segment with the cars and the most important CUV and smaller SUV models are where the profit will be easy to come buy to help the rest of the company remain competitive. these are the cars that fund the new product.
Note I do more than read car magazines. It is amazing what you can learn in other areas and with some of the people you meet and know through work. I do not work for a Automaker but I do work in the auto industry and I have to know what is going on with the automakers and the models as my future depends on it. It is often not what you read or know but who you know too.
The way you build a name for a company is to protect it’s name and image. In the Luxury class that takes even more care than any other. If you want the image of power and means then you need to make sure that is who is going to buy your cars.
Even Kia has tried to cash in on image and power. They have Lebron James marketing their cars. While he says he has one, I have yet to see him in one. He is well known for his personal car collection that holds many names like Ferrari, Maybach, Rolls, Lambo , and many other prestigious names. I see him around town often and he is seldom in anything under 6 figures. But that is where Kia is working to try to let some of his image off on them. People like to be associated with power, money and fame. Lebron is not only a very nice guy but represent one of the most powerful and popular sports figures in the world. Who better to up the image of your product?
By the way my first paragraph here is not a personal attack but a direct address on your poor choice to they to toss out the term Racist just because you had nothing of more value to say. That is just sad. You really need to learn the real use of the term before you go using it so loosely.