‘Tis a sad, sad day in the kingdom, ladies and gentlemen. We have received word there will not be an option to row your own gears for the next generation 2016 Cadillac CTS-V.
Just yesterday afternoon, Jonny Lieberman of Motor Trend tweeted to his personal Twitter account:
Sadly confirmed: there will be no manual transmission on the upcoming CTS-V. #Cadillac #CTSV #sad #cry #6mt
Itching to learn more about this development, we reached out to Mr. Lieberman asking if he was at liberty to name who confirmed the saddening fact. Responding on Twitter again, he replied saying:
Dunno if I’m at liberty. But let’s just say I heard it from the top.
Ouch. Yes, those were our heartstrings snapping one by one. Previously, we believed that the new Cadillac CTS-V would receive the same 7-speed manual transmission from the Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, the Tremec TR6060. So, it looks as if buyers will only have the chance to enjoy lightning fast shift blips through GM’s new 8-speed 8L90 automatic gearbox. It seemed plausible that a manual would still be offered on the high-power midsize luxury sedan given that the very niche Chevrolet SS got a manual after its initial introduction.
Even so, the 8-speed auto will undoubtedly make for quicker shifts and lap times, but as anyone would tell you, something about clunking the stick into place and pressing in on a clutch pedal can never be replaced with the mere flick of a wheel-mounted paddle. The previous generation CTS-V had a 15 percent take rate on the 6-speed, but it looks like Cadillac is counting on those buyers to buy the 2016 ATS-V this go-round. We can still count on a 6.2L supercharged V8 engine to be at the heart of the BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E-Class AMG rival, and expect it to produce somewhere around 650 horsepower and 600 pound-feet of torque.
We expect the 2016 CTS-V to be unveiled at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit and be available for purchase later on in 2015. And unless Cadillac releases the third-gen of the CTS in coupe or wagon variants, the third-gen CTS-V will be offered exclusively in the sedan body style.
So, what’s your say? Is Cadillac making a mistake? Or is the lighting quick 8-speed the only way to go? Sound off in the comments below and let us know.
Comments
Odds are the it may have been an emissions thing and the Automatic will be faster anyways.
Might need to take everything a grain of salt until times get closer to the reveal.
If the manual cease to exist, it does not mean that the CTS V will not be a phenomenal car. I am sure this car is going to be a monster like that ATS-V but in a mature way. I prefer automatics over manuals anyway.
It is a performance sedan, after all, where performance is paramount. Manuals simply make the car slower. They cannot shift faster than what an automatic can do.
I’ve heard people make hollow claims people that they (personally) can shift faster than an DSG, but I know they’re full of themselves. They can’t change gears faster than 8ms, and to do so reliability and consistently under the most demanding circumstances.
The last argument I heard of someone bemoaning the loss of manual transmission boasted about bump-starting; “at least I can still start my car without a key!”. As if making your car more steal-able were something to be proud of.
I won’t miss a manual in the CTS-V. It was only going to hold the car back anyway.
20 thumbs down by people stuck in their ways. Your understanding is objective and correct. I don’t fault you for wanting to get the most out of the car.
Yes, performance is paramount, but without the manual I won’t buy it. Why would you take a performance car and only make it available with an automatic? Nothing can replace the experience of driving a rocket like that with a manual transmission.
Sure, the automatic will be faster, but I know from experience that you can’t get the same rush and workout going around a racetrack with an automatic as you get with a manual. I don’t care about saving a couple tenths of a second a lap if I can’t get the excitement that I crave.
I also know that everyone is different, and I don’t fault other people for wanting the car the way that they want it. Some people like automatics and that’s great, but there are still a lot of enthusiasts that don’t and thinking that they are just in it for the lap times and shift times is so very wrong.
The Cadillac Cts-v 2016 can be a 7 or 8-speed automatic.
On the one hand that it has 8-speed hydra Matic 8 L 90 is and has an Lt4 engine’d v8 supercharged 6.2 L taken from the Chevrolet corvette z06 with 600-horsepower c7 or less and torque of 600.
I hope until January 2015 so that this car is revealed in the lounge car in Detroit and to know its characteristics and development of the engine.
I’m old school and won’t drive an automatic or a V6. I guess I’ll just keep my ’07 and ’11 Vs. Now that Cadillac is charging BMW prices it makes my next choice easier.
“Now that Cadillac is charging BMW prices it makes my next choice easier.”
So what are your choices, exactly? What cars are you looking at that are going to be comparable to the new CTS-V now that Cadillac is too rich for your tastes?
I can afford any BMW with a manual or DCT transmission so why should I buy something that I wouldn’t enjoy driving nearly as much?
The 760Li has an 8-speed Steptronic. It starts at $141,200 USD.
It has a DCT, and it is a BMW. It has a 6.0L twin-turbo 535hp V12, and weighs over 5000lb.
Source: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/byo/byohome.aspx?namodelcode=157K#
Would you enjoy that car, as it could give a CTS-V a run for it’s money, or is that too rich for your tastes?
If you’re going to roll around in a luxury car, be sure that you can sustain doing so; you know keeping up appearances with the kind of crowd who buys such cars. It’s the same rule for Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW as it will now be for Cadillac.
I have no interest in a 7-series. There’s no M version. It is too large and heavy for my taste and it is only available with a conventional automatic. I am a performance car enthusiast, not a status seeker and could not care less what you or anyone else thinks about how I spend my money.
IMO, the older CTS-V’s were an outstanding value, particularly with the SBC V8 for which there are so many easy ways to up the power output. I doubt that the 760i could even keep up with my 3800 lb. LS2 and my LSA would blow it away. The BMW “M” series are the high-quality HP standard, but, like Apple Macs, they are difficult to work on and very expensive to modify.
I’ve driven a new Vsport CTS and it’s too big for me, too. So I’d probably not get a new CTS-V even if it were available with either a conventional automatic or a true DCT. Still, I think Cadillac is making a mistake by dropping the manual, even if the take rate is only 15% or so. It will hurt them in the magazine reviews.
I was hoping that the ATS-V would have the normally-aspirated V8 as well as the manual…
“I am a performance car enthusiast, not a status seeker”
If you are a performance car enthusiast, they why are you looking at Caddy’s V-series cars? It offers both performance and status, the latter being something you’re not looking for.
I suppose you could always slink into a dodge dealer and get a Charger RT, because if you’re looking at performance luxury cars under the lens of “outstanding value” you’re not going to find it.
Luxury and “outstanding value” are mutual exclusive of each other. If you’re unwilling to see what kind of car the next CTS-V can become (charting out places that no American luxury car has ever gone before), you can always dig your heels in and keep and enjoy the older V’s. But don’t expect them to ever be class leading or to lend you the same kind of clout and image that can only come with the newest and best luxury products.
Grawdaddy, although I rarely agree with you – most of the time your logic is sound. But I never get why you try and argue against “performance heads” so hard. It’s clear by your reasoning and previous statements that you aren’t one.
You appear to not understand the demographic at all. Just agree to disagree and let it be.
I get and understand “performance heads”. I was one when I had my old Z28. I know where they’re coming from and what they expect of their cars. To them, cars are not transportation, but a hobby.
What I’m against are those who think Cadillac’s V-series is a substitute for Pontiac and it’s fabled “we build excitement” nonsense. The people who think hooning about in 4th gen WS6, GTO, or G8 GT is analogous to hooning about in CTS-V. Just because they have small blocks in them doesn’t mean they are intended for the same group of “performance heads”.
Because GM is positioning Cadillac much, much higher than what some are used to, the fear among those who saw the V-series as the natural alternative to the demise of the F-bodies is that such V-series cars will be many thousands of dollars out of their reach. Those unwilling to reconcile with the reality of Cadillac’s (proper) repositioning are those who looked at, bought, and own older CTS-V’s. To them, the Cadillac badge meant jumping up from an tired old F-body into something “classy”.
“Classy” is not synonymous with ‘sophistication’. Those who bought the older CTS-V’s were not doing so with the intention of elevating their social status; they just wanted cheap thrills and the badge was just a small perk. Put some thought onto the cheap part, and it’s where Cadillac will struggle to shake off their “second tier” image.
Those who buy M5’s, E63’s, and RS6 (irrespective of their availability stateside) are doing so to impress upon others their importance. The price of those cars are part of equation, as it can say more about the owner and the kind of life they lead. The performance of those cars is the other half, as very few cars can match it either on road or track; a quality that can be directly attributed to it’s “no holds barred” engineering.
Both qualities combined, such cars are seldom seen as being something for masses. Those who buy them simply want to go as fast as possible, and to impress others by extension.
Those who bought the older CTS-V’s weren’t doing so for status. RDM has admitted so, so any effort on behalf of Cadillac to be taken seriously on the world stage of performance luxury cars is nill because they weren’t targeting the correct group of “performance heads”.
Will it hurt them emotionally? Yes. Will they be happy with their older CTS-V’s? Yes. Can GM offer a manual in a CTS-V? Yes. Will a manual in a CTS-V make the car perform better in a segment where performance numbers are ruthlessly compared in a ceaseless game of one-up-manship? No.
Those numbers matter. That slim number of “performance heads”, I estimate to be somewhere between 5% and 10%, will scrutinize the numbers. That percentage has the means to afford the best luxury performance cars and want to make sure they aren’t getting something inferior. A manual, and all the shortcomings that reduce the potential of the car, are something that will distance those buyers from the car. Compare numbers can put up between a manual, a conventional auto, and a DSG, and the results will tell you what matters.
GM has a job to do; it’s to make Cadillac respectable again by offering only the best. Its V-series is to serve Cadillac’s aim to make the best performance cars.
Cadillac is not for the every man, and its V-series is most certainly not for most “performance heads”, only a select few that can indulge in such a privilege. It’s that 5% to 10% of the “performance heads” group that have the means and the wherewithal to own and drive a CTS-V that Cadillac should concentrate on.
~~~
TL;DR – Cadillac should only focus on the “performance heads” that have more disposable income, and by offering V-series cars that can beat and exceed their contemporaries. That way, Cadillac raises it’s profile, and the V-series becomes renown for only offering the best performance engineering GM has to offer.
Yes, cars are my hobby and I own a bunch of them including 2 M’s–all manuals. Just because I put a priority on performance doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate and value quality products. I wonder what you have in your garage but I doubt you’d give an honest answer. BTW, my only other GM product was a ’62 Catalina Sedan, 421SD aluminum/”swiss cheese” factory drag car. Remember, I said first off that I was “old school.” You youngsters are entitled to your opinions and preferences, as I am mine.
I can give an honest answer. I had a 1987 Z28 (LNF) that was every bit a play toy. But I now have a Cobalt LT sedan. I hope you weren’t trying to turn thing into a “I got this and that in my garage” pissing contest.
So I may not have a luxury car, or even a remarkable car, but I AM luxury consumer. As I age, I’m seeing cars as less of an extension of the self and more as a means to an end. That doesn’t mean I can tell a luxury from an boring car like my own. I’m indifferent to my car, and the people I’m with are too. So I’ve focused my attention on other things.
I’ve mentioned elsewhere on GMA that I’m currently charting out finer Islay and Highland single malt scotches; all of which are far and away better than any 3-year minimum, blended, spiced, sugared swill water that passes for wisky in North America. Frankly, neither us Canadian or you Americans can make a wisky worth a damn. Jack D and Crown Royal are nothing but populism in a bottle; whisky that needs the help of Coke to make something of itself, drinks rushed down the mouth in haste.
For reference, start with Bowmore 12, and climb upward. Higher prices are no barrier to a superior quality dram, nor a reason to hold up a lesser wisky.
Perhaps you’ll prefer getting more for your money, mixing in everything you can, maybe even getting “good and hammered”. That’s the same kind of approach I take with the CTS-V in comparison to it’s contemporaries. You don’t savour a CTS-V like a scotch, you just get hammered in it; cutting donuts in cul-du-sacs of unfinished subdivisions with no occasion.
Your entire reply just proved my point. You don’t get the “performance enthusiast” mindset at all. I’ve lived in Europe and Asia, and guys who wrench on and beat the hell out of their cars are the same everywhere no matter what brand they drive.
I will admit that you have the “poseur/Snob” mindset down pat. Please stop confusing this with the a fore mentioned “Performance” side of things.
Grawdaddy – “So I may not have a luxury car, or even a remarkable car, but I AM luxury consumer. As I age, I’m seeing cars as less of an extension of the self and more as a means to an end. That doesn’t mean I can tell a luxury from an boring car like my own. I’m indifferent to my car, and the people I’m with are too. So I’ve focused my attention on other things.”
There’s the problem – you’re extending YOUR beliefs into that of others, creating a fallible argument.
The charger doesn’t come with a manual transmission for one.
I remember having this conversation with you a couple years ago on why the V3 wouldn’t sell well at its price. How’s that working out, chief? You failed to understand people with AMG money are going to get an AMG. The V series was an alternative at a lower cost, and that’s why it succeeded. Now you have dealers selling 2016 CTS-V’s at 40k less than the release price, because they can’t move them.
If Cadillac are serious about a launch in Europe, then a Manual Gearbox needs to remain an option. Auto’s do change a fraction faster but left to their own devices, they often are in the wrong gear. For me, a manual also has more reliability. So much less to go wrong. I can only see all that power shredding the Auto to pieces over time and this costs every time it happens with a full strip and recon required. Bad move Cadillac.
We’re talking about the CTS-V here, not the garden variety CTS. Autos, especially those made by GM, are far more reliable and predictable that what you’re leading onto.
By virtue of the CTS-V being a performance luxury sedan, it nesessitates the use of an automatic to maintain the highest standard of performance; a manual simply cannot compare. The M5 is only available with an automatic, and nobody in Europe or anywhere else on earth for that matter is complaining about that car not having a manual.
The conventional 6-speed manual is a no-cost option on all M5’s. BMW did drop it a few years ago but brought the manual back because they said they got a lot of complaints.
Your comments are invalid. Quit typing and step away from the computer. The F10 M5 is available with a manual.
I planned on keeping my 6 spd manual 14 v wagon anyway. But as stated above the automatic is faster on the track be it road course or !?4 mile.
While there has been a small spurt I fear the manual may vanish in the future. Emissions and the low sale rate is killing the tranny. Even cars like the Charger Hellcat are automatic only as it is too expensive to re crash test it just for the number they would sell.
transmission gear shift speed is not only the most important but also the transmission has to be very clever. when the transmission is fast but it does not make you stupid curved roads anything. and now when compared to the very good automatic and manual gearboxes, and a very good acceleration, even if they are not automatic gearboxes just a lot faster. quite a number of very high-speed gearboxes and cool but the curved road, they might disadvantage. may be only 0-60 is perhaps better but if you slow down for a moment, and then you can re-accelerate the transmission end of the intellect.
Cadillac could also offer a manual transmission for those who wish.
Transmission must be very fast and very smart. and durable. glove is such automatic gearboxes also very expensive. expensive to service or repair. one gearsift 0-60.
vw dsg awd is 0.2-0.3 sec faster 0-100 than conkurents fwd cars .and loses track DSG more. where vw manual. and the circuit slower than competitors with a manual transmission. it’s just one example. and even when a machine is 0.5 sec 1 sec or faster. I am really mad because of the numbers, get over it. as you can see in my videos then set it in seconds chase is useless in everyday life.
Ok different cars vs different gearboxes
I hope that Cadillac gearbox is very quick and very smart.
I’m in the market for a new car in the next 12 months. The CTS-V could have been at the top of my list but without a manual, it won’t even get my consideration. I hope GM reconsiders their decision like they did for the SS, otherwise my money goes elsewhere.
The new Cadillac box is fast as we have already see what they can do in the new Corvette.
Most companies are now to a full auto or semi auto. Even the most famed gated shifter at Ferrari is gone accept for some limited availability.
The bottom line there are just a series of things that contribute to the loss of the manual. The greatest is the fact so few people know how to drive them the non performance versions are drying up. With less overall sales from non performance it is not worth the expense for the small volume they would sell. Add in that you have different crash test results and different emission testing cost it is a tough thing to do anymore.
Anytime a MFG puts out a manual they should be applauded as this is not a cheap or easy choice anymore.
We may still see them in the smaller FWD cars as the cheap basic cars are still popular for manual shifts in the other countries and this helps off set the cost.
As for GM transmissions their automatics accept for the 80’s have been the standard of the world. That is why Ford, Rolls, Jag, Ferrari and BMW has used them in partnership development or just flat out bought them to use. The 80’s cost saving on validation testing created issues that are not a problem at this point.
Life ruined.
Wow – if this is true, shame on GM. There absolutely needs to be a manual option, even if it’s low volume. Did GM forget the 2004-2007 manual CTS-V that reinvented Cadillac’s performance division? And the clientele – the ones who like to row their gears like real purists but need a back seat? The TR6070 fits in the third gen. I’d make it work, or else the car is going to get further away from its roots and the people who have bragged and promoted the CTS-V model since it’s inception, like me.
Signed,
A gear rowing CTS-V owner
“I’d make it work, or else the car is going to get further away from its roots”
This assumes that the first gen CTS-V was an archetype by which all other CTS-V’s are to be judged by.
It isn’t. The CTS-V is to be better and greater with each generation, not to kowtow and show deference to the past.
I get what he’s saying though. I think more along the lines of “this car was introduced to be a lower cost true purist family car to compete with the likes of Germany’s best, but now slowly evolving into just an auto gearbox German-wannabe car” type of thing. Along with that comes the price/entry points, and before you know it, you have a 100k cadillac with just a sequential gearbox only. Cadillac cannot compete at that price level with the competition. I know they want to, but they cannot. Not at this point in time, not in the next few years either. Cadillac is trying to position themselves into an even higher status/clientele/cant-row-a-gear group, and it wont work. Sure, people will buy the car. Sure, it will be an awesome all around hauler. But this car is clearly targeting a different group than in the beginning, and it sucks. It needs a manual option.
EXACTLY, someone gets it.
I personally have no qualms about the direction GM is moving with Cadillac and the CTS-V. BUT, it got where it was by attracting and appealing to a completely different customer than what they are aiming for now. Most CTS-V owners and fans bought the cars and aspired to it because IT WAS NOT a European sport sedan. it was a ass kicking non “foo foo” AMERICAN answer to those cars. Now GM is interpreting the V series previous success as a green light to move in the very direction that it’s core buyers turn their nose up at.
Hopefully they are successful in their pursuit of the “snobs”. Because as they discovered with the lost of Pontiac traditionalist – sometimes you can’t retain the loyalty of those who helped you get where you are when you reject what they supported about you in the first place.
“Cadillac is trying to position themselves into an even higher status/clientele/cant-row-a-gear group, and it wont work.”
Why can’t it work? Why can’t Cadillac entertain a wealthier crowd of buyers? Why can’t Cadillac build and sell vehicles that can command $100K? Why can’t Cadillac offer an uncompromised performance luxury sedan to genuine enthusist without having to deliberately stunt the cars performance with a manual just to appease the few value-conscious people who only think that they are enthusiasts.
It won’t work because the total cost of ownership of a $100k Cadillac is much higher than that of a $100k BMW or MB because of lower resale values and lease residuals. Wealthy people didn’t get or stay rich by spending their money foolishly. Maybe in 10-20 years this will reach parity but it will be a long hard journey.
Grawdaddy, cute little game you’re playing with yourself, picking and choosing/quoting only certain lines.
You need a hobby.
Why not? It’s the only part of his post that mattered. Besides, it’s easy to pour cold water on the Pontiac faithful; to remind them that the world they knew is long, long dead, and that Cadillac’s V-series is no substitute for them to gorge on.
Grawdaddy sounds like a pompous, non-driving fuck.
“Grawdaddy sounds like a pompous, non-driving fuck.”
I’ve been called worse by adults.
But if you must know, I do drive a car, but this has nothing to do with what I drive. It’s about who Cadillac’s V-series cars SHOULD be targeted at. More often than not, it’s not you.
What you think is pompousness is actually the demand of the luxury consumer; to get a better product irrespective of price. They demand the best of the world and price is no barrier to them. It’s the same “pompousness” of the BMW M driver, Lexus F driver, and Mercedes AMG driver, and soon it will be that of the Cadillac V driver. The V-series will never be known again as the budget-minded persons step into a higher social status.
You don’t like it? Work harder and demand better products in your life. It’s that simple. Millions of people are already do it. Why aren’t you?
That’s not a supercilious statement or anything. For what its worth, I can afford a third gen CTS-V easily. I’d be the first in line for one if it offered a manual. I enjoy the finer things in life, I do. But you know what? I want to row my gears, just like I have with the last two generations of the CTS-V. That’s right – Cadillac performance faithful here! Some of us want a more connected driving experience. That’s what you fail to understand. Isn’t the consumer important? Cadillac is stepping into a whole new game, and they are foolish for turning their nose to the gear shifting enthusiasts that want a luxury sedan and a clutch. I can’t take my family out in the Corvette or Gallardo, but at the same time, I want to continue to enjoy each new iteration of the CTS-V. This car pumped new life into GMs performance division, and it should continue to offer customers a manual experience if need be. I realize manuals are dying off, but at least offer a low-volume option. That’s another thing you are failing to understand. How would a low-volume manual option hurt Cadillac? It wouldn’t! I know this from being in the automotive industry, first hand. 5%, 10% of them, I don’t care. Leave the “auto-only, no manual option” to cars like the CT6 coming out.
And please – carefully step off of your uppish pedestal. It looks like it would be a long fall down.
I remember having this conversation with you a couple years ago on why the V3 wouldn’t sell well at its price. How’s that working out, chief? You failed to understand people with AMG money are going to get an AMG. The V series was an alternative at a lower cost, and that’s why it succeeded. Now you have dealers selling 2016 CTS-V’s at 40k less than the release price, because they can’t move them.
Cadillac lost me. The new CTS-V is just too big and only has a slushy automatic. I might be interested in an ATS-V if it had a normally aspirated LS V8 and a manual trans or DCT. I sold my ’11 CTS-V (manual sedan) last year and kept the ’07 CTS-V which I like better. My daily driver is now a 2016 F80 with the Competition Package. Despite all my previous rants about only choosing manual s, I ordered the DCT as compromise because of some knee and foot issues. I love the DCT. I also have a GM 8-speed in my garage and IMO it’s still a slushy automatic despite being quick shifting in a drag race.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/11/confirmed-there-will-not-be-a-manual-offered-on-2016-cadillac-cts-v/#ixzz4b9I6eDO5
I remember having multiple conversations with you on why cadillac was pricing themselves out, especially on the cts-v, because people with 100k+ for a performance sedan are more likely to get a german car. And how cadillac was taking the V away from the roots that gave it success (competing with the german performance cars using price as an advantage). Well look where it ended up. Grawdaddy, wrong again. What a surprise.
http://jalopnik.com/cadillac-is-replacing-the-ats-and-cts-with-just-one-sed-1797332648
I love being right.
Honestly i think the new CTSV is going to offer more power then new Z06……and when you get into that level of power a manual is a let back……AMG doesnt offer manuals on there range but it does drop there perfomance or there reviews in magazine…..this car is going to be a rocket…..
What is the take rate on large, luxury, high performance cars with manual transmission? Below 5%. Yes, car enthusiast will cry about the absence of a manual transmission (some genuinly would buy a manual, others, mere talk) but it’s hard to fault companies when they make these decisions, especially with the larger cars.
Has any one even considered the new car might be AWD?
The may also have effected what transmission is offered.
Very exited to see a new automatic in the new V. I daily drive my 2011 and its a very balanced car regardless of the traffic conditions. Yet, she’ll run the quarter in the low 10s on motor only & a 100% stock 6l90. These 6L’s are running down into the 8s now… Crazy awesome for the street! Really looking forward to see what the new 8L’s will do…
If I am going to spend the money to buy any car I am buying a manual. If I want manual and AWD and I am spending CTS-V money I expect I will get it, just might not be in a Cadillac or any other GM car…that is sad.
Bummer news if it pans out. First thing everyone asks about my coupe is…” Is it a stick”, your damn right it is! Looks like I’ll have to keep my 6mt CTSV for ever and ever.
March 2017 update: I sold my ’11 CTS-V (manual sedan) last year and kept the ’07 CTS-V which I like better. My daily driver is now a 2016 F80 with the Competition Package. Despite all my previous rants about only choosing manual s, I ordered the DCT as compromise because of some knee and foot issues. I love the DCT. I also have a GM 8-speed in my garage and IMO it’s still a slushy automatic despite being quick shifting in a drag race. GM and Ford both need to just buy the ZF box for their performance models and quit trying to convince everyone that the GM-designed-and-licensed-to-Ford 10-speed is equal, much less better. I’m not happy that the new M5 will have AWD standard along with the ZF 8-speed automatic because the DCT has never been engineered for AWD.