When the Pontiac Grand Prix was introduced in 1962, it was a new personal-luxury model based on the Catalina but equipped like a sporty version of the Bonneville. Throughout the years, the Grand Prix developed a reputation of high style, but by the time the 1968 Grand Prix was introduced, it became bloated and overwrought. Still, they are an unusual full-size cruiser, and this one on eBay is even more unusual due to its engine.
The standard motor for the 1968 Grand Prix was a 4-barrel 400 rated at 350 horsepower. Buyers could spec a delete-option 400 2-barrel or move up to two 428s. The first 428 was rated at 375 horsepower, while the second was the 390-horse 428 HO. As the most powerful motor in the Pontiac stable (at least on paper), the HO consisted of a high-performance camshaft, special exhaust manifolds, and chrome air cleaner, rocker covers, and oil cap, among other things.
As usual, the Grand Prix also had unique styling compared with the usual Catalina/Executive/Bonneville models. Most noticeable are the hidden headlights and flowing rear from backlight to bumper. The Grand Prix also received unique taillights, almost a precursor to the taillights used on 1970-72 A-bodies like the GTO. However, the overall effect did not win the hearts of consumers and little over 31,000 were built for 1968.
But out of those cars, only 100 were built with the 428 HO backed by an automatic transmission, according to the GM Heritage Center. This motor is rare for any Pontiac (only available in full-size models since General Motors had an edict restricting cubic inches in smaller car lines) so you aren’t likely going to find one in any model anytime soon. Currently at $12,100 and not yet meeting reserve, this GP possibly could be an affordable collector car that isn’t seen at every show.
Comments
I never found these all that hard to find. We had 4 of them we rotated in and out of GTO’s and Firebirds back in the 80’s My buddy still has 3 HO 428 versions. We used to find them in GP and Bonneville’s.
He just bought one a year ago and it is still in the Bonnie for only $900.
I even have a rare low mileage 68 GP convertible near by, It has a 428 too. Not sure if it is a HO but the car is loaded. I would love to buy it but the owner is the original owner.
Maybe back in the 1980s they weren’t hard to find, but when was the last time you’ve seen one? Yeah, you can find ’em on eBay but they’re just not on the top of anyone’s list to restore.
BTW, the ragtop was from 1967.
Last time I saw one was today. The Bonnie is just sitting in the repair shop parking lot. For $900 he even got a good complete set of 8 Lug wheels.
They are out there if you know where to look. The big Pontiac players like to find them and use them to race with.
Sorry on the year I missed a key.
We even have one in a 1976 jag sedan after the V12 puked a valve seat for the second time. It has never let us down in the 20 years it has been in the car.
Keep in mind I live in a high concentration Pontiac area here in the mid west. I also grew up and still work with people who worked and raced for Kanfel Pontiac.
Our daily drives to School were a 65 GTO with a 428 HO from a GP. A 63 GP with a Ram Air IV with a tri-power and the single air cleaner. A Slant 4 Tempest convertible, 69 GP with a 390 HP 428 or assorted Firebirds and Trans Ams. Most of the 428’s are still in storage along with a inline HO six and various other Pontiac engines. The present GTO my buddy has is a numbers matching 64 Tri-power hardtop.
We also had other GTO’s to play with. A 66 Drag Car and others.
My one co worker owns the blue Pete Seton 1960 4 speed 389 SD Catalina that was the runner up in Mr Super Stock at the Detroit US nats in 1960. It is the car behind the 1960 Royal Bobcat of Jim Wangers in the historic photo.
We also have several very high profile Pontiac collectors in the area that also have won nationally historic racing and showing of SD cars and others they have restored. Akron Ohio was a Pontiac town.
When it comes to cars and engines like this it is not what you know but who you know as to how hard they are to find.
The car needs the original wheels to have value
Non-original wheels hardly detract from value in the grand scheme of things – wheels are not like an engine!
The truth is while he aftermarket wheels are not a deal breaker on a good car original wheels would get you a better price.
In this case the 8 lug aluminum option wheels are very desirable in Pontiac of this era.
To have those wheels here would make a major jump in price as they are valuable on their own.
You can add them later but they are very pricy to by a good set that is complete in good condition. They are easy to find but just not cheap.
Note too they look a hell of a lot better than the old Keystones here.
In fact a set of the 8 lugs here could add as much as $1500 and make a easier sale over the wheels seen here.
It is kind of like a Tri Power GTO vs. a 4 barrel GTO. While not a big deal on paper the collector will always pay a more for the three twos. If it is an original tri power car they will pay thousands more.
….yet the existence of Keystones hardly detract from the value of the car, which was the assertion by the other poster. They are an easy fix that allows a buyer to have a bargaining chip, especially if it’s an original 8-lug car. Alas, no PHS on this one.
Ok if the car has the 8 lug wheels it is worth more and seen as more desirable. A true Pontiac collector would be looking for this. Now on the other hand someone like you that really has not dealt with the Pontiac Collectors market might just be peachy with Keystones. But in the end who is the one who would be the target customer to buy this car and at a higher price than with out the wheels.
Yes you can put them on but like I stated you would have to find a good complete set that could cost you several thousand dollars. You just don’t find them every day on a cheap used car. That is why I pointed out the Bonnie with the 428 and 8 lug wheels as a real steal for $900.
I have also bought a complete Trip Power including air cleaners for $100 but try to repeat that purchase again today. LOL!
The bottom line the best way to buy a car like this if you want the 8 lug wheels is to find one with them in place. Not many people would invest the money to put them on after the fact with the limited value of the car at the present time. You know we are not dealing with a Super Duty here.
Do you really even own a Pontiac or even participate in any Pontiac Circles?
The bottom line is this, Answer a simple question. The car is worth more with the proper and more desirable 8 lugs vs. some Keystones that few people today like. What one would attract the higher price and the true collector? If you said 8 lug then you have won the prize.
Odds are this guy may have met his reserve if he had the other wheels. At auctions the little visible things help sell the car.
It doesn’t take one who knows (or own) Pontiacs to know that anything that isn’t stock to the car gives the buyer a bargaining chip. In this case, having aftermarket Keystones is hardly a scarlet letter. However, if the car was invoiced for 8-lugs (or, possibly, Rally IIs), a buyer would not be faulted for trying to get the price down due to the missing wheels.
But, again, “the car needs the original wheels to have value” is where this conversation originated (and I realize it wasn’t you), and that’s simply not true. For a car such as this, the wheels have little bearing (pun not intended) on collector interest, which is focused on the 428 HO motor.
Here is a perfect example of those who can do and those who can’t write. LOL!
You had better tell the Pontiac collectors that they have no interest in the wheels. I have seen similar cars go unsold because of key missing options.
As for the 428 HO it is of interest mostly to the guys racing unless you are doing a numbers matching car. The 428 is a great engine but it does not hold the allure of a 421SD or a Ram Air engine. To be honest it is often the engine most often overlooked even by those in the Pontiac community. That is why we have so many of them as while others are fighting for a Ram Air engine we grab these stuff it in a GTO with a Ram Air cam and have a little fun. The key to this engine is the extra torque it provides.
With only cams and intake and a little head work HP is so easy to make with these. the bottom end is very strong. We called it the poor mans 421 Super duty. The only Pontiac that impressed me more was a 455 SD that had a mild cam that would run 12’s all day in a 74 TA.
You can make about any Pontiac run 12 sec but getting it to hook up and drop lower is the issue. It can be done with a few tricks. My Co Workers Firebird is in the 10’s fully street legal and no tubs. A little spring and shock work with the right tires does a lot of neat things.
So you can try to sell your story on the engine but the fact is this is a very over looked engine and it not as rare as you would like to make it since it was also used other years. While they are getting more difficult to find they are still not hard and compared to a BBC are still pretty cheap when you find them. Often the folks with the old cars have little clue to what is under the hood.
The key to sell this car is the more options the better as it too is a over looked model. Most people are not going to the smaller 69-72 models as they are increasing in value.
The 428 HO in the 69 we had had well over 120,000 miles and would still peg the speedo at over 130 MPH and even won with a friend driving at the strip one night King of the hill and several hundred dollars. He only did it on a bet and cleaned up with solid times and good use of the factory slap stick.
Scott, you don’t seem to be very familiar with collector Pontiacs, especially HOs.
You are funny.
Did you even attend the Pontiac Nationals last week? Have you even been there?
Are you a member of the POCI?
Have you even driven a 428 HO?
You even left out the most important part here did the engine even have the correct heads on It as many times they get switched out and leave the engine done on compression from the 10:75 to one compression from the factory.
Also you can not advance the timing much on pump gas as the ring lands will break on the pistons leaving you with blow by at the breather.
The reality is a rebuild able 428 and 428 HO can still be found and at a reasonable price if you know where to look. Many of the form sites will get people asking how much to pay and most times it is a lot less than you would expect. Like I stated my friend just picked up a car with one and a full set of 8 lugs in good running condition for $900.
I love these engines but I am not going to make false claims to try to make people think it is high value or in high demand.
Tell me where these 428ho’s are. I will come down and give you a finders fee cash!!!!!!!
My 73 grand Am needs one….
i believe i have a factory stock 1969 428 390hp from 69 grand prix sj. i took the motor out of the car till then it never had a wrench put on it, 2,11 valves in head oil deflectors above valve rocker arms 4 bolt main crank shaft caps, oil splash depressor bolted below & to main bearing caps, fuel gauge stated premium fuel only and speed-o went to 140 mph. i have complete motor and steering, & alt., brackets, chrome valve covers with crossing flags, & intake manifold. i cleaned motor inside and out, give three angle valve job installed new gaskets and stuck it in a 69 chevelle. VERY FAST POWERFUL CAR. it would wrap speedo pass 120mph all the way to 15mph. Motor chipped a valve corner. disassembled motor sits at my house in manistee co michigan. virgin motor never bored,crank never ground. $4000.00 can buy it can get photo’s and numbers if needed, respond to post for directions or offers.
Was the car an automatic, or manual trans that the motor came out of? do you have the serial number off the block?
auto transmission “”””It would be a very rare Pontiac if it was a stick car. Steve were are the numbers serial number you ask for located at on engine?
Thanks for reviving the thread – I completely forgot about Scott’s chest-thumping.
Tim check my post. “Kevin Soper”
xg engine code i found 7029268 9792968
7029268 is on carb
I have a 68 grand prix with the 428 ho 390 hp backed by a factory 4 speed. My uncle worked for gm in the now gone new jersey plant. He ordered the car and followed it through the line along with his coworkers. I am told it is equipped with some parts not optioned.
Google: pontiac code 382 judge/wt5 (and this is documented on a 1970 FIREBIRD!).
The Judge was UPC code WT1, which was sales code 332, not 382.
The UPC code for the GT package for the Tempest T-37 was WU2, but its sales code was 332 – the same as the Judge’s.
And the Formula 400 package for the Firebird had UPC code W66. Care to guess what its sales code was?
WT5 was the “Mountain Performance” package and had a sales code of 754.
I don’t believe there is a sales code “382” for 1970.
This car was not built for public. This car was built with gto code 382. This car also has the mountain performance option code 754 and what this does is on the special equipment list is deletion of engines. Starting with codes 641 642 and 643 on this list deletes the 350 engine. The code 754 then takes over and also deletes engines codes 346 and 348 a L74 ram air lll. These deletions with the stamped numbers on the seven blade fan ordered with this engine #9796134 / 914007 this is a L68M pontiac 455. This is all new exposure of facts ! A firebird judge wt5 !
Your CL ad has been discussed in several Pontiac forums on Facebook.
There is no such thing as a GTO sales code because the GTO was its own model.
On a completely different platform, no less.
As pointed out, there’s no sales code “382” in 1970.
In fact, let’s look at your video on YouTube:
You received an instruction sheet from PHS that tells you how to read some of the coding. The guide uses 382 to show you the method on determining sales codes because “several codes were used to describe things as ‘Winter Antifreeze’ and are not listed on the order form.” This is a generic comment sent to ALL folks who order the PHS and, in fact, 382 is not listed on your PHS invoice besides.
In the headline of your video, you also mention 754, which is not listed on your PHS.
Looking at your other videos, I notice that you tout sales code 488 as special equipment police cluster, but what you fail to notice is the section of that sheet (which is an order form, not some form of invoice) is for full-size Pontiacs (notice the Firebird section is on the bottom right?). Sales code 488 is option code W63, a regular production gauge cluster for the Firebird.
And I don’t even know how you arrive at the conclusion that the 350 was deleted – there is nothing in the PHS to suggest that, the order sheet doesn’t suggest that and, besides, the section from which you’re reading is for full-size Pontiacs.
If you really want “facts,” go call PHS and tell them what you think the car is. When they laugh at you, they’ll just be joining the rest of the folks on Pontiac forums who are currently laughing at you.
Fake site and nothing since 2016 welcome to 2018.
You offer no evidence of your assertions, and when confronted with this, you throw epithets. Is this truly a way to engender trust when you’re selling a car?
Welcome to 1970, when your Firebird Esprit was built.
Can any body else google this !
GTO JUDGE 382
OR
1970 TRANS AM WT5
OR
PONTIAC JUDGE WT5
OR
POLICE ENFORCER WT5
YES THIS CAR IS STILL STANDING EVEN AFTER
ALL YOU HATERS PROVE YOUR IGNORANCE.
Still standing? Why, because he hasn’t had the sense to delete his own posts?
Googling just leads to his own posts on this car. Sorry, not what he thinks it is.
Not an expert by any means. My understanding is that less than 400 428HO engines with the WJ code were built in 1967. Fewer than 20 were installed in the GP convertible. The manual transmission was installed in 205 of these convertibles. This is manual transmission of any type, 3 on the column 3 on the floor or 4 speed. From what I have been told in the 67 GP that less than 20 were equipped with a 428 HO engine and a 4 speed manual. The racing community loved these engines making them harder to find today
559 HOs were installed in Grand Prix. There is currently no breakdown by body style.
205 Grand Prixs had a manual transmission. There is no info that I’m unaware of that breaks that down by transmission.
Somebody knows or has a pretty good idea of the actual number but will probably take it to their grave (if they haven’t already) because it’s no use discussing proud American history with a populace of globohomos who could utterly care less anyway. Just give’em their Tik-Tok and SUVs and Made in China everything and carry on with the mass destruction
At the present rate, we will forever be discussing American achievements in historical terms
The sheet from PHS states there were 385 HO engines
That’s for all full-size models with a manual transmission
So I was wondering I have a 1968 428 with 62 heads I currently have a aluminum I take 750 holley headers basically a stock engine I want to swap out the cam to a 041 the motor is in a 70 lemans sport with a th350 safe t trac diff assuming 355 gears