Cadillac has been out at the Nurburgring all week testing the next-generation CTS-V and the new ATS-V sports sedans. Coincidentally, General Motors’ crosstown rivals from Dearborn, Ford, have been at the Nuburgring putting their Mustang GT350R prototype through its paces recently too.
Naturally, the two future American performance machines ran into each other at the track and chased each other around the 12.9-mile Nordschleife. The GT350R is rumored to be the track-focused version of the 2015 Mustang, similar to the now discontinued Boss 302. It will have more aggressive aerodynamics, stickier rubber and a naturally aspirated 5.0-liter Coyote V8 producing up to 550 horsepower, according to Car and Driver. The ATS-V was in good company, then.
We’re immensely curious if the ATS-V was able to keep up with or pass the ‘Stang on the Nurburgring. Which of these cars set the faster lap time may be revealed when the production versions are shown to the public, which for both models could be at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in January.
Comments
Wasn’t it mentioned that the gt350 going to have north of 700 hp making it more than the hellkitty?
@ vic1212
Well the faggcat is going to have 707 hp, so it’s also “north” of 700 hp.
2016 GT350 is to the Boss 302, what the GT350R would be to the 302 Leguna Seca, ie the ‘R’ is more hardcore track focused and Z/28 fighter.
Do we really need all these factory track and tuning packages? If you want more horsepower, bolt on a supercharger or some turbos, if you want faster lap times, get better suspension. Me thinks these factory tuning packages are just so for 5 seconds one automaker can claim that their car has better numbers than any other car, until someone builds a better one, lather, rinse, repeat.
The stang had some big rubber and carbon ceramics hope Al and the Camaro boys were paying attention! Still playing catch up to the Z/28 but nonetheless a big improvement in handling is in store for this pony. Hopefully the alpha based camaro keeps pace in the brakes,tires, suspension department. Would hate to see the Camaro lose its edge in dynamics after the last gen dispelled so many naysayers.
Well the power wars will becoming to an end sooner than you think. There will be limits to a all powerful gas V8 powered car in the near future.
The key to the future for the Camaro and Mustang is to become true world class GT cars with several variation including track cars.
The days of the go in a straight line cars and not turn or stop well are coming to an end. Today most cars are expected to go, turn and stop with exception. The truth is the Muscle car and Pony car died a long time ago and the name just stuck around. The Coming Camaro and Mustang will be respected as just great for the money sport coupes as they become. I expect the next Challenger to move away from the retro image and get smaller and lighter with help from Fiats other divisions.
You can all the HP in the world but in a street car you can only put so much to the ground in this price range. It is how much power you can use that counts not how much you can make.
Also we will see a loss of mass in the Camaro that will count for more than most have considered. Less mass is a major thing in a car. More HP adds performance in acceleration it does nothing for handling or braking. With less mass it effects all three dynamics.
Take a car like the Z/28 and cut the weight buy 400-500 pounds and nothing in the class now would touch it. Underpin it with the new CTS Alpha base suspension and you will see some amazing things.
Many just need to sit back and consider what we do know about the coming Camaro and just how effective these physical changes will effect the cars performance in ways we have not seen in years. It will be very dramatic.
WTF are you talking about Scott?
ALL performance cars have been decent handlers and stoppers since the late 80s. this isn’t 1967. Only a fool or someone completely ignorant of modern car tech talks of ANY car let alone American performance cars as lacking in the handling and stopping department.
Everything you “prescribed has been happening for 20 years and GM and everyone else for that matter is well ahead if you.
And one last thing; I wish you guys would stop reading whatever BS tea leaves you’re looking at and chill with the “V8s last days are upon us” garbage. People have been saying that for nearly 40 years and still to this day the single-most mass produced engine design is still a small block GM V8. Never mind the V8 from Ford (perennially powering the best selling single mark for over 20 years).
And they just keep making more and more power from the factory as well as getting more fuel efficient, all while staying fairly large in displacement.
We will hear the last gasp of the V8 – and traditional American performance that is associated with it – when the concept of internal combustion engines are finally laid to rest by something undeniably superior. Until then, things will just get better and and better and V8s will be alive and well in the thick of it.
jzEllis You really don’t understand what a real good handling car is then if you think they have been world class.
Case in point a fast well handing car will go fast on all conditions of roads and is easy to drive. In other words it will make going fast feel slow. Not a lot of cars over the years have accomplished this.
Case in point while GM has made cars that did have high G numbers you had to really work to get to the limit and keep it at the limit.
GM while they may have had the best in America were lacking till they put the GM Performance division together. John Heinrincy and the group were the first to really take a GM car and tune it to where it was world class and often at a much lower price than many of the equal cars. Hell they took a lowly Cobalt SS and made it a car that had lap times even on ruff tracts that could match much more powerful and expensive cars and still not bounce the fillings out of your teeth.
Be it I am not a 911 fan but to drive one you understand what it is that people find in the car. You can be hitting a corner at 100 MPH and feel like it is 40 MPH with little drama.
GM has found this balance and has tuned their cars on real world conditions like the Lutz ring now and not just on the black lake at Warren.
What I am getting at is true performance is not just big numbers on the skid pad but real refinement in the real world back roads where you can be blinding fast and not have to work hard to do it.
Ellis you also need to get with it and understand that the world is changing around you and you have no clue. The market in about 25-30 years ago was 85%-90% V8. No one could imagine that the V8 would never be king. Today welcome to the world where 4 cylinders are now 85% of the market.
The reality is the trucks are the only thing keeping the V8 viable and if they had not done so the engine would have died in the 80’s as GM had planned to do. The increase in truck sales is what kept it around and why they invested more into it. It was to the point before truck sales took off Chevy was looking at two 2.8 V6 engine in a Corvette for performance. One in the front and one in the rear. The mule is still around wand was just sold. It was tested in a Citation and was under serious consideration.
At Ford the V8 is very rare in in anything but the trucks and the Mustang. At this point the Ecoboost keeps adding sales and cutting into the V8 market.
GM is looking to raise the cost of the V8 to limit sales and encourage people to get into the new smaller truck with a V6 or 4 cylinder. Dodge will soon follow the same route.
There will be some V8 models but they will be limited or very expensive. Many will be tied to hybrid systems that will kick in and out with the car much like the new 918 Porsche.
The fact is years ago I though the WS6 TA was the most amazing thing on the road but today I can fully see the faults in it. Also years ago I could never foresee the market going to the point it is and where it will go in the future. There are no tea leave just cold hard facts. Don’t think the automakers are all working and investing so much in electric power and hybrids just to appease the tree huggers. The fact is they are desperate to find ways to keep the kind of cars we like viable.
I don’t say these things because I like them. I warn people because I work in the performance industry and have to know where this is going as my future depends on it. There are a lot of scary things going on out there and we all need to be aware of it and not stick our heads in the sand as now is the time to hold our ground. To be honest I at times fear it may be too late.
I would recommend you take a new C7 Corvette out and just see how it drives and how refined it is over the C4-C5 and even the C6.
The fact is the Mustang and Camaro are going global to survive and they need to meet the needs and expectations of global buyers and not just those here who are willing to overlook short comings.
The new Camaro will have refinement on a level never seen in a Camaro or even the Mustang. This is refinement in all levels of ride, construction, design and power. Look for a jump in the Camaro in refinement on the scale of the C6 to the C7.
Ellis you may think you had it good but you have missed half of what you could or should have had. Finally you will get what you should have had all along.
I know one of the past F body managers and he has always made it clear that the 4th gen had all the money go into the suspension and engine but the rest of the car was never finished properly. This is why the window lifts broke, the interior plastic sucked, there was a lot of cowl shake and other issues that you will not see in the future products.
Note that today and the coming Camaro is having suspension designed and tested by people like Mark Steilow formerly of the GM performance division. He is getting the car for once before it is built vs. fixing it after it was built. Keep in mind he is the one who fixed the Zeta to levels never conceived before in the Z/28. Just wait will you see what he does from a clean sheet of paper.
As for now wake up and fight for what you like as you are only fooling yourself that it will always be there. Listen to the engineers in the industry and they are losing sleep over it now.
Whoever at GM is thinking it’s a good idea to target the Mustang with the ATS should be fired. This is why BMW folks scoff at the ATS.
Who is targeting the ATS at the Mustang.
They were just both in Germany and I would expect the ATS driver was pushing the Mustang just so see what they have.
Keep in mind the guy in the ATS is also the same engineers that are working on the Camaro.
Also with the way GM does things the new Camaro could also be testing under a CTS body very easily. That is the way they do things anymore.
Benz is not laughing as they are very much watching the next CTS V. I am sure BMW is also watching. Benz stated this and there has been no better endorsement given to Cadillac than from Benz saying this. To me that sealed Cadillac being legitimate. You don’t hear them speak about Lincoln or even Lexus do you?
As for these two cars it was a chance meeting and a GM engineer just seeing just what the Mustang has since he will be also tuning the Camaro or already is. Keep in mind these engineers are RWD platform engineers not Cadillac. They work on all the RWD cars and not just one brand.