Thirteen people have died in vehicle crashes linked to faulty ignition switches in several General Motors cars, but now it is being alleged that at least 74 have perished in similar circumstances.
Reuters is reporting that they searched the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) for single-car frontal collisions where no front air bags deployed and the driver and/or front-seat passenger was killed. FARS is a national database of crash information submitted by local law-enforcement agencies.
The news agency then compared the rate of incidence of the Chevrolet Cobalt and Saturn Ion with three competitors (Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, and Honda Civic), with the frequency of such accidents for the Ion two to six times more than the aforementioned competitors. The Cobalt fared a little better, with as much as four times more.
However, Reuters also says is not clear if defective ignition switches were involved in the fatal accidents because crash reports genereally do not include that data. That leaves open the possibility that air bags may have failed to deploy in some of the GM crashes for reasons other than faulty switches.
General Motors has declined to comment on these findings or methodology, instead stating, “Our focus is on doing the right thing for customers — fixing the recalled vehicles as quickly as possible, addressing our civic and legal responsibilities and setting a new industry standard for safety.” The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Acting Administrator, David Friedman, added, “The final death toll associated with this safety defect is not known to NHTSA, but we believe it’s likely that more than 13 lives were lost.”
Comments
Prove it!
It is very possible there are more cases but no one can say how many or prove any others with the lack of evidence since it was not obvious to many.
Also you have all the other factors involved here that too often get left out. Case in point in the new July Car and Driver page 19.
#1 Mitigating Circumstances. Too often what gets left out the other issues involved in these tragedies.
Case in point of 11 documented cases of the original 13 here are some facts.
4 of the 11 were on drugs or legally drunk.
7 of the 11 were not wearing seat belts
1 of the 11 was slumped over the wheel with a suspected seizure
These are documented on page 22
Second Are the cars real drivable with the key off?
C&D tested a car with the power steering disables. While the steering force went from 3.3 pounds to 8.8 pound with power steering to 15.1-29.2 pounds. Not exactly totally disabled as even in a slalom the car was only 1.6 MPH slower. Most cases if this issue happened the car would be on a straight road or a simple turn where a fully attentive and non impaired driver should be able to control the vehicle in most cases.
Third the brakes.
They disabled the brakes power booster. While the increase in pressure could multiply 4 fold once the vacuum is depleted most cars carry a reserve to normally stop a car with ease after the loss of power. Even if you remove the vacuum hose there is a check valve in the system that retains the vacuum for a need stop. Even if you use the brakes there is generally more than enough vacuum to stop the car from 70 mph with little drama.
Fourth the air bags.
The fact is most cases the air bags are supplemental protection as the belts are the primary. Often bags can do more damage if they deploy with an unbelted driver. The early bags were harsh and did kill some people. Something to think about if you are driving a car from the late 80’s-90’s. The government requires the bags to be in the car but has no guide lines as to how or when they deploy. Automakers have to study conditions and test to determine the placement of the passengers to tell when or where the bag will be most effective and not a detriment to the passengers. If the body is not going forward at the right time for the g force the bag can break a neck or back very easy.
Auto makers all have algorithms that help determine the time to deploy the bag and just how the car is crashing. In some cases the bags will not always deploy as it could do more harm than good in the wrong situation.
The fact is just because you have an air bag it does not mean it will prevent all issues and in some case it may not deploy power on or not depending on the crash.
The test here was done on a Saturn Ion.
As the test concludes and here is their quote “The truth is most cars have an Achilles’ heel. Sometimes two, when you factor in the driver.”
So the more stories like this are publish by folks like Reuters with little to no proof they have turned journalism into a witch hunt.
I by all means feel GM should repair these cars and pay in the cases where they were responsible. But in the cases of the Under the Influence, speeding and not being properly belted in the driver should also share or be responsible for some or all of the results of the accident.
We just had a case here where 4 kids got killed getting airborne over a rail road track. They are going after the rail road, the county and the automaker for the kid thinking he was cool and one of the Duke Boys. Sorry he pressed the gas and used poor judgment and should be held responsible here. Normal rational people never had issues with the crossing as they knew they could not fly a 3500 pound car without any risk.
Now if a driver in good condition not speeding and properly belted in when or if the key went off GM should be held in these cases with no question.
Again read the Car and Driver story as few people will post it on the web as it is not as dramatic as it is to beat on a large corporation.
This world needs two things. Corporate responsibility but it also needs to be matched with personal responsibility. To those GM haters sorry but fairs fair no matter what corporation.
Scott, once again I find your position on this issue truly saddening. Of course, seeing how you can’t tell the difference between moral and morale, with an e, I shouldn’t be too surprised.
The facts here are pretty simple: there was a screw up–hey, they happen–but then a decision was made to ignore it, and then, then a decision was made to cover it up–costing even more lives. GM admits publicly to 13 deaths, Scott. Now in actuality, even that number is low, since the good folks at GM don’t count passengers among their victims. Driving under the influence, stupid, young, old, liberal, conservative, or otherwise, what part of that is okay with you? If any part of it’s okay, then enlighten me, but be specific: state the incident and give me a name of the individual(s) that deserved to die.
Sigh, it’s so not about hating GM, or crappy appliances–oops, I mean cars–it’s about having a God **** conscience. And taking your head out of a corporation’s stinkin’ fat ass.
They did count passengers as victims. Not sure where you got that.
And the issue is that if the other factors (drunk, no belt, outrageous speeds, etc.) were not there they may not have had the accident or could have controlled the event without an accident or not have died. Yes, GM should be responsible for what happened but should not be found guilty of every accident that someone was hurt in until they are all investigated and fault found.
100’s of cars run out of gas every day and the same exact vehicle events occur (loss of power brakes/steering) that lead to the accident. Of course the air bags still works but if they had control of the car they would not have needed them.
And no one deserves to die.
Anon, you just don’t get it do you. You have no idea what goes on between NHSTA and auto manufacturers when it comes to testing for safety issues and issuing recalls. Even NHSTA couldn’t find a correlation between the accidents and the ignitions enough to tell GM to issue a recall. Could the ignition turn off in the exact ideal conditions for it? Yes. Should that be an automatic death sentence? No.
At some point the driver has to be responsible for controlling their cars. Absolutely no one is taught these days how to drive defensively, or what to do if a car stalls. Years back my driver trainer actually turned the car off on us twice to teach us what to do and so we knew a car was still controllable. The problem is no one is taught this and everyone just panics if/when it happens either due to ignition issues, computer issues, run out of gas, etc.
GM should pay the families where there were no mitigating circumstances like alcohol, not wearing seat belts, etc. But in the others, people must remember that air bags are a supplemental safety item and that other things are first on the safety list:
1. Not driving under the influence.
2. Wearing seatbelts
3. Driving at/under the speed limit and at a speed your experience can control.
It’s like you leaving your house door unlocked at night and I break in while drunk. You chase me with a baseball bat to get me out of your house and I trip on your front stairs as I run out of the house because I am so drunk. Then I sue you because you are the one who left your door unlocked and you are the one who chased me into falling and injuring myself.
If I was sober, I likely wouldn’t have broken in in the first place and surely wouldn’t have tripped leaving the home and therefore wouldn’t have injured myself.
I can realize that families who have had someone die in accidents look for someone to blame other than their loved one; it is human nature and I would likely do the same under those emotional conditions. Those who’s loved ones dies without mitigating circumstances deserve a settlement from GM. But those who’s loved ones should not have been behind the wheel due to alcohol/drugs, or were not wearing seat belts, or were speeding excessively have to realize their loved ones had much more influence over their own deaths than the airbags not going off because they would have still been able to control the car, or the seatbelts would likely have saved them. After all, cars stall everyday for various reasons and people can still control them.
Should GM be fined for making a terrible decision no to replace the ignitions years ago? Definitely. Someone made a decision not to escalate the issue to the superiors or the superiors make a bad call. But did this decision directly lead to deaths of all these people? No. Cars are still controllable when they stall and manufacturers make sure they are when this happens.
The NHTSA couldn’t find anything because a car shutting off in the middle of the road is still fully capable of being controlled as long as the driver doesn’t panic. But I do believe that a car shouldn’t be stalling in these circumstances, and that GM as well as well as the people in charge should be held accountable for this mistake. It is however, inevitable that someone who was driving under the influence, w/o a seatbelt, or above the speed limit is going to try to claim money for damages even though they don’t deserve a single penny, it’s not like rich families don’t abuse the affordable health care act, right? As much as I would love to point out who deserves compensation and who doesn’t, we just can’t find any evidence to prove other wise, so let’s just try to move on
You, sir, are a moron.
Anon, very true. The only time Scottecotec3 gets dry is when the General passes gas.
So what is wrong with my point. Both parties are held responsible for their actions no matter if it is a corporations or a private person.
Should we not all be responsible for our actions good or bad?
Where am I wrong here? GM should be held responsible for the defective cars and any legitimate injuries or deaths. But also people should not be rewarded like bad behavior if they were unbelted, drunk and speeding.
Sorry but to give the example of the kid in Indy he was drunk, speeding, no belt and 93 MPH airborne. Key off or not he is just as responsible for putting himself in a position that he would die air bag or not.
I find it saddening that you want to protect and reward bad behavior. No one should be rewarded for bad behavior no matter if they are a large company or a single person. Like wise should a company or a single person should not be taken care of if they were harmed and were doing nothing to put themselves in harms way or be forced to be responsible for someone else’s poor actions.
You are wrong as the passengers were counted.
31 accidents
13 deaths counting both the driver ands passengers.
Life and death is a direct line to choices. One who make poor choices often pays the price. You can say they chose poorly. It is not about who deserves to die but the difference of those who choose wisely and those who choose poorly.
The part of life that is not fair is those who choose poorly and take someone with them that had no choice.
In this case I agree GM choose poorly and should take care of the damage they are responsible for. But on the other hand someone who placed them selves in a position that they sealed their fait should not be rewarded for it.
There are cases here that the families should get what they deserve from GM. But on the other hand as we have seen way too often people who behaved in a proper manor and did the things they should have done would not have died or even in some cases had even been hurt if their actions had not put them where they ended up.
The 93 MPH kid for example. If he had not been speeding, airborne and drunk had his ignition fail could have easily pulled over had he not placed himself in the place he was.
Normally a stalled car is not a death sentence. I could take a survey here and I would bet 99% of those who post here have had a car stall on them more than once in traffic over the years. It is a very common thing. Seldom do people die unless the circumstances are stacked against them.
Often you have no control over the circumstances but most times you do. Many people think some are just lucky but the fact is they are in control of the things they can control in their life.
So it is time to stop blaming everyone else for their problems and take responsibility for the things you should take responsibility for. If all companies and individual would do this life would be a whole lot better for everyone. Time to stop rewarding bad behavior and making everyone else pay for it no matter who you are and in cases of those who should be held responsible make them live up to the standards.
As we know life is not fair but at least we can try.
I am sorry there are a lot more sad stories out there the media could be covering and saving even more lives. This should be reported but it is far from the worst automotive case ever. All MFG have done this and they know it.
On the other hand it is time to hold the individual responsible to a degree. How many more law suits for spilled hot coffee do we need. It is you and I who pay for the idiots that don’t have enough sense to protect themselves or not put themselves in harms way.
It is not just some people that need to be responsible for their actions we all need to be responsible. Time to get your head out of your own a$$ and stop blaming everyone else for your issues.
It is ok to place the blame when it is fully there but when you contribute or are responsible take the blame. I know of no better compassion when someone take responsibility for their own action when they have done wrong.
Scott, wow, as far as the “blaming everyone else for your issues” thing goes: if that’s how you’ve interpreted my comments you need to turn the volume down on your AM radio. As far as the “hot coffee” lawsuit that you mentioned… you should probably turn down the volume on your AM radio (and try Google, or Bing, or Yahoo… or just read this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2470792/Stella-Liebecks-hot-coffee-McDonalds-lawsuit-The-truth.html). For the rest, please refer to the last sentence of my previous post. Good day!
Please point out where I and the others are wrong here? You can’t can you!
You really have no valid point here and just have to resort to comebacks as you have no other cards to play here.
Please point out where I am wrong to expect GM to take care of the repair of the cars and to take care of the families of those who were belted in and not drunk and drugged up!
Where am I wrong for expecting someone to wear a belt before they blame someone else for their death?
With the kid getting air borne please prove the key went off before he hit the tree or before the car came crashing back down after getting air borne.
I assume you are also one of those who think guns kill people and not the folks pulling the trigger.
Come on make a logical point here if you can find one.
Anon, can’t you see how this works? A drunk kid’s going 93 mph in a cobalt and gets killed. His relatives can sue GM for million bucks and probably win. Then you and i have to pay an extra $1000 on top of any new GM vehicle to pay for this kid making a poor decision. On top of that now more people are going to want money for their mistakes and as long as they made their mistakes in a GM vehicle they can sue GM. I’m with scott, GM pay for the mistakes that can be proven as their fault and forget the rest.
Scott3, you are “spot-on.” Pay no attention to Anon, he is just a minor annoyance.
That’s simply bad reporting. This is complete speculation and you cannot determine if those people died as a result of faulty ignitions, so if you have any credibility, you don’t report this. Sensationalism at it’s best(worst?). Reuters should be ashamed.
GM also sent recall notices to deceased victim’s families. See link.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gm-apologizes-sending-recall-notices-victims-families-article-1.1816980
The stupidity knows no bounds. Someone should tell GM even their cars come with VIN numbers.
Magirus, I know a person who wrote off his Mercedes and another who wrote off a Ram and both got recall notices over a year later. Manufacturers do not get insurance company records as to which vehicles have been totalled off.
Quit trolling again.
They get the info from Polk. https://www.polk.com/solutions/interpret_apply_vin_information
Not sure if the manufacturer could legally stop a recall notice from going to a vehicle if it is in the requested pool. However I think someone could have thought of at least calling the people and letting them know that a notice was being sent to them. The OEM has to use a shotgun method of getting recall notices out because there is no database that is kept up to date.
Don’t know if anyone else noticed but camera is spelled wrong in the title
Gentlemen, please end the name-calling. It does not make for a welcoming atmosphere here at GM Authority. You are our guest, right?
For what it’s worth (and the last word from me), it would serve most of you to learn a few things:
– US laws on negligence
– The McDonald’s hot coffee lawsuit
Equipped with the knowledge of these two items, there would be no discussion here, nor any name-calling. We’re all adults (right?) – act like it.