By Tim Esterdahl, for GM Authority.
What’s better for your half-ton truck – a turbocharged diesel V6, or a turbocharged gasoline V6? If you’re a Ram fan, the new Ram 1500 EcoDiesel probably has you thinking turbo diesel V6 engines are the way to go. If you’re a Ford fan, you likely answered turbocharged V6 gas engines (aka EcoBoost) are the best.
The fact is, there are pros and cons to both options. A lot of evidence suggests that GM will eventually go the half-ton diesel route, and that decision begs the question: Which truck engine strategy is better, GM’s diesel or Ford’s EcoBoost?
Gasoline vs Diesel 101
For more than a decade, half-ton truck consumers have been asking for a diesel option. The main reasons are simple:
• Diesel engines produce more low end torque than gas engines
• The fuel economy of diesel engines is better than gas
• The resale value of diesel trucks is higher than gas trucks, as diesel engines are more durable
Also, depending on where you live, diesel fuel may also be cheaper than gasoline.
Gas engine advocates, on the other hand, have argued that:
• The return on investment for diesels is simply is too long to justify, as diesels cost more up-front,
have higher maintenance costs (especially with the advent of DEF and mandatory regeneration cycles)
• Future diesel emissions requirements will make diesel-equipped trucks extraordinarily expensive
• There’s a lot that can be done to improve gasoline engines, from variable valve lift and timing to twin-turbos and direct injection.
While both sides of the gas vs. diesel argument have merit, recent sales excitement over Ram’s new EcoDiesel V6 (aka VM Motori 3.0L) trucks indicates strong consumer demand for diesel half-tons. Specifically, Ram sold 8,000 EcoDiesel trucks in just three days. That made the new EcoDiesel 1500 the hottest vehicle Ram has ever had, according to the brand.
GM (which originally owned VM Motori and commissioned the engine that Ram’s EcoDiesel is based on, go figure) has stated that it plans on offering a diesel engine on the Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon next year. When you combine the presence of a diesel in the Colorado with GM’s promise to offer “mid-cycle powertrain enhancements,” it doesn’t take much to believe that GM will be putting a diesel in the Silverado and Sierra as well.
Future Truck Market Dominance and Profits at Stake
Love them or hate them, Ford innovates. While GM’s latest trucks are nothing to sneeze at (they are consistently under-rated by an automotive media that fawns over technology), Ford’s decision to build an aluminum bodied F-150 for 2015 is a game changer. A few years ago, Ford’s push on its EcoBoost technology changed the game as well, as consumers came to expect better fuel economy from their trucks (at least on the sticker, as the EcoBoost doesn’t often meet consumer expectations in the real world) with no trade off in power.
Ford’s position in the market makes its decision not to offer a diesel half-ton in the foreseeable future a significant one. On more than one occasion, Ford’s leadership has also commented about limited demand for diesels in half-ton trucks. Basically, Ford seems to argue that consumer interest in a diesel half-ton is limited and turbocharged gasoline engines offer more promise. But the early take rate on the Ram EcoDiesel has so far proven otherwise.
Ford’s decision to eschew diesel engines in their half-ton trucks (at least, until a mid-cycle refresh) is both a blessing and a curse for itself. On one hand, it gives GM a way to differentiate itself from Ford. On the other, Ford is going to be the only truck manufacturer that doesn’t offer a diesel half-ton, as it looks like Toyota and Nissan will be joining GM and Ram in offering diesel engines in the next 2-3 years. Ford’s uniqueness on this front gives them the opportunity to paint themselves as an innovative automaker who “goes their own way,” something a lot of truck buyers will appreciate. Or maybe not – perhaps consumers want diesels and will buy them elsewhere.
But the bigger picture here is that Ford and GM have staked out their positions, and as a result someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. A win will secure market share, boost profits, and fuel future investment. A loss will have the opposite effect, as the losing automaker(s) will have to hustle to develop a new engine family.
Will Ford’s gasoline only position win the day, or will GM’s expected investment in diesel take first place? Who knows. Outside of Ram’s limited experience with their 3.0LÂ EcoDiesel, it’s hard to make a case either way.
We’ll just have to wait and see.
Comments
Who wrote this?
It is VM Motori, not vitori.
Twin turbos do nothing for fuel economy, they won’t do anything to make those that want diesels settle for gasoline engines – you even point out later that the ecoboost is worthless from a fuel economy standpoint.
The current GM trucks could hardly be described as “under-rated”. GM brought their trucks up to 2011. That will cut it with the Colorado/Canyon, whose primary competition is still at 2005, but the half tons are one of the most modern vehicle segments out there. GM, at a minimum, had better find an improved transmission to put into their half tons real quick, if they want to keep up with Ram and Ford fuel economy numbers. Their prices are going to have to drop as well.
GM truck sales will be helped significantly by Colorado/Canyon sales, at least until Toyota/Nissan update their trucks. If either Toyota or Nissan put any effort into updating the Tacoma or Frontier then they will rapidly pass the new Colorado/Canyon in sales, because just like the half tons the Colorado/Canyon are a halff-assed effort on the part of GM.
Apologies for the typo, but turbos do help with fuel economy because it allows for the use of a smaller motor. Generally, small motors use less fuel than bigger ones.
But only if the basic engine can power the vehicle. If you have to get into the turbo all the time mpg will be low.
To me that is the reason so many complain about the fords.
It’s all about playing the EPA numbers.
right, you’re absolutely right.
GM will be dead last at offering a half ton diesel, sometime around 2018. Any bets? And even then it’ll be only a limited high priced run even though the diesel should be offered across the whole range today. Very out of touch with customers. While everyone else has pep in their step, this new GM smells a lot like mold GM.
I keep waiting for a diesel Suburban or Tahoe, but at $70K+, I don’t think so. I built a Mercedes GL350 BlueTec Diesel for $68K. That will be my next family hauler.
This article misses an important detail about diesels at Ford, they have that 3.2L I5 Power Stroke they are putting in the Transit. Assuming it fits in the F-150, they have a diesel they could bring to market pretty quickly if they want to. I don’t know of a diesel GM could bring to market for their full size trucks quickly. Their 2.8L I4 that they are putting in the Colorado is a little too small, they could probably get the VM Vitori 3.0L V6, but then they’d look like they are copying Ram. Looks like they are going to have to go though the long process sourcing and federalizing or developing a new one, which as a GM fan, kinda sucks.
GM does have an engine it can bring to market quickly that will dust Ford and RAM:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/01/gm-might-actually-dust-off-4-5l-duramax-according-to-report/
I don’t know if this would be the right choice as it might be a little too big. The 4.5L Duramax would definitely beat the power levels of the Ford and Ram engines, but it would probably border on overkill like the 5.0L cummins in the next Titan. It would probably never compete mileage wise with the Ford and Ram engines, and MPG’s is what everyone seems to be focused on.
I don’t know if GM can even access the 3.0L VM Motori diesel because Fiat owns all of it now. and the 4.5L Dmax is now an old project, and chances are that it’s irrelevant at this time. With those factors in mind, I’m expecting something new.
Unfortunately “something new” means it will likely take awhile. At least there’s the Colorado diesel to look forward to.
The 4.5L Duramax would be too close to the 6.6L, just as the 5.0L Cummins V-8 originally slated for the Ram was too close to the 6.7L Cummins. Ram went with a far smaller diesel for the Ram 1500. If there is a market for 1/2 ton full size diesels big enough for more than one competitor, perhaps GM could look to Isuzu for an appropriate sized diesel. Until then, GM will have a nice exclusive diesel compact truck in the new Colorado/Canyon. That might be the better alternative anyway.
I still think GM would be better off spending money on a Ram 4500/5500 competitor than a Ram 1500 diesel competitor right now. How about it Manoli?
Well GM will get a Diesel and while it will help it will still make up only a small fraction in sales in the half ton class.
The expense and the increasing emissions will be a difficult hurdle as time goes on. The government want more MPG but then they are killing the Diesel with their regulation.
Smaller more efficient and as powerful engines will be around. I do see GM doing a V6 turbo at some point.
The fact is about the turbo in normal driving they are very efficient on a smaller engine. Now like a V8 if you drive with your foot on the floor it will drain the tank but that is only common sense.
I am getting 25 City and 32 Highway with a 300 HP h cylinder. I drive it fairly hard and see 23 PSI of boost daily. Now I am not going to say I would like a Turbo 4 in a full size truck but GM could do a smaller V6 that would be very efficient and will have to at some point not because they want to.
The V8 trucks will become more and more expensive in the next 10 years as this is the only way they can force people to buy less and still make a profit. They all will do it as it is already happening.
The real issue is for GM is the cost of the Diesel trucks and pricing them to where people buy them. This is the issue for most Diesels in this country as they are not the main volume product like they are in Europe.
There other thing is GM can either do their own engine and I am sure they have one they are considering or they can get one from the outside like many others do. I think the real issue is the tranny and the new tranny will being the Diesel closer as it will be built to deal with it.
It will be interesting to see how the new small trucks play out. As if they work then Ford will bring in the Ranger as this has been their hedge if they need it. The truck per their global platform manager is suited to NA regulations and the only thing keeping it from here is Fords will to bring to market here. That could change fast if they decide to change.
No one here has all the answers as even the MFG’s are wading into waters they are not even sure of.
It is clear that unless things change Diesels are not the major part of the future as I would not be surprised if they get to the point that the states that have California based emission regs will ban a Diesel at some point. I know it is crazy but that is California and CARB. Now NY and other states use their regs. so it will only get worse.
Now if America treated Diesels with Euro regs it would be game on but that will not happen do to government intervention.
I am not a diesel guy but we need them and I just think the govement will kill the market at some point. I hate to say it but that is where it is going. My Diesel tuners today are not even doing much with the new trucks for fear of the government. Many are buying 06-07 GM diesels as they love them and they are easy to hop up. But he new trucks there are some real issues with the rules and they are treading carefully.
GM has made multiple errors with the new GM trucks after investing over $2B the new trucks do NOT look that different. Plus ALL the new engines are the same displacement… Making it difficult for marketing and you can NOT feel the AFM active fuel mgmt vs. Fords EcoBoost … Just press the accelerator in Ford n off you go… Quicker than a V8…! Easy mktg n sales!
The Game Changer will certainly be Fords 700 lbs lighter 2015 F150 n better MPG n capabilities… But the BIG surprise will be the 2.7 V6 E oBoost with CGI block gives Ford. Big. “wild Card” in Capability and efficiency unmatched by GM n Ram…! What if it makes something like 330 HP n 380 Ft Lbs n gets 27 MPG and tows over 8000 lbs…!!!!!
GM has NO answer n Ram EcoDiesel is way too expensive n GM midsize CnC won’t come close to capability n interior space n comfort. I’ve already sized the inside of CnC twins n backseat crew cab space is a joke vs full size F150!!
Plus the CnC twins will hurt GM full size truck sales more than GM expects that will canibalize their profits… Dumb move!!
It seems like GM is in a no win situation for a smaller diesel in their full size. By the time they’d develop one and get it on the market, increasing regulations would make it difficult to keep it in the line-up. As much as I don’t like the idea, maybe GM should stay out of the smaller diesel in a full size market. So if Ford has the Turbo gasers, and Ram has the smaller diesel’s, then maybe GM should find their own thing and focus on hybrids. From what I’ve heard the future regulations favor high tech solutions anyway, plus they already have the most experience with full size hybrid trucks. An updated version of that two mode hybrid transmission with more gears and a lithium battery pack in combination with their current V6 would be a tough truck to beat mileage wise.
A diesel half ton is not exactly a no-brainer as a lot of people seem to think. Look at these numbers.
Ram V6 diesel. $4000 up charge, 240 hp, 420 lbs tq, 9200 lbs max towing.
Ford’s EcoBoost $1095 up charge, 365
hp, 420 lbs tq, 11,300 max towing.
Now, the diesel should get better fuel economy, but how much years do you need to own it before the savings pay off? Also, diesel fuel isn’t cheaper, servicing cost is a lot more than the gas engine, the gas engine is much easier and more fun to live with, a lot faster, and tow more, then you see why the numbers don’t stack up in favour of the diesel.
Try posting accurate information for a change. $2850 upcharge, on an already better and cheaper truck. About 40% better mileage in the real world. About 50% better mileage while towing in the real world. Maintenance is a wash. You would need to own an ecodiesel for several years for fuel savings to cover the upcharge, or just sell the ecodiesel and you will recover your initial investment in resale.
Go post your garbage somewhere else.
Only small minds use these forums for personal attacks on people you do not know. The diesel option is ACTUALLY a $4,000 up charge on the lower trim levels. You have to step up to Laramie for the $2850. Who is posting the garbage?
The only “small mind” here is you. And just to be clear, I am stating directly that you don’t know what you are talking about and are posting nonsense. Your “upcharge” is when moving up from the pentastar to the ecodiesel. If you wanted to make that comparison (which is rather stupid since they won’t really be cross shopped) then you would have to have listed your ecoboost upgrade as $2095. You posted (as Ford fanboys typically do) a broken and incorrect comparison. To be clear the ecodiesel offers ENORMOUS fuel economy improvmements. The ecoboost offers none. It also offers very little in the way of performance enhancement outside of altitude. In essence the ecoboost is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to convince dim witted buyers they are getting something more than they are, and to trick EPA testing procedures into recording higher fuel economy numbers than most will experience in the real world.
So, in conclusion, I just wanted to reiterate that *you* are posting garbage. Go read a book or a peruse the internet before posting again.
Not sure what you are really saying but per the website the diesel is $4000 over the base 3.6L.
So if you are looking for fuel economy then the improvement (2 city/3 highway) is going to cost you $4000. And you lose a lot of hp but gain a lot of torque.
For an all round driver with doing little towing the base 3.6 will be the way to go taking into account mpg for a bunch of years. If you need to tow then the diesel is probably a better move than the V8. All depends on how you use the truck.
http://www.ramtrucks.com/hostc/bmo/CUT201413DS1L41C/2TB/options.do
A few points about RAM:
Discounts… Discounts… Discounts!!!!
Plus the 8000 early orders are mostly dealers “priming the pump” with lots of fake customer orders to stock their lots n early adopters that just “must ” have it regardless ..,
Diesel does Not make sense when u smartly consider the engine premium plus add cost ofmaintenance plus higher fuel cost… It just does Not not economic sense…! If u tow a lot get a HD truck!
Better solution is Fords gas EcoBoost that’s taking 47% of sales n more if Ford could produce more!
Some of the most popular traded trucks for Fords EB are older V8s…!
GM said they would not buy marketshare but now Ram has outsold Silverado… n GM just announced increased incentives to. “Buy back” their marketshare ….!!!!! Double talk!!!
Lead , follow , or get the hell out of the way . GM days of leading are , to my mind , slipping and appear to be in the Follow category . Hopefully the descent doesn’t continue . In Canada Ford trucks outsell GM nearly 2 to one and Ram trucks in 2nd place . Stodgy , conservative , unexciting engine choices , and a lack of perceived reliability could be an issue . Also , the rectangular wheel openings and bulgy fender lines are not attractive or perhaps desirable . The only other vehicles that carry them are the Honda Ridgeline , whose sales have slipped badly and is probably due to end production and the GMC Terrain whose sales by the end of Feb.2014 had slipped 21.9 percent and the hot selling Equinox had increased 22 percent . Now the Terrain grill is okay , as is the minor treatment to the back end , so what is left besides the ungainly fenders,wheel openings ?? The slightly higher price , perhaps ?? GM , has some pretty big areas of concern, none more important than in : trucks , small and mid unibody crossovers/suvs selection . Taking care of issues quickly so massive recalls become a rarity looks like job # 1
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/02/gas-versus-diesel-do-the-math-first.html
It’s not just the diesel, GM’s truck need to lead the pack rather than play follow the leader. The 4.5L duramax is a start, but I truly believe that this is what the trucks need: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/04/general-motors-magnesium-alloy-vsc-machine-successfully-completes-first-trial-run/
I bought the 6.2L diesel back in 81 in an 82 half-ton. That motor was at 350k miles when I gave it to my daughter and son-in-law. The worse thing GM did was not to continue with a diesel in their half-tons and like the other two only offered the diesel in the 3 quarter ton trucks.
That 6.2L on a bad day gave 25mpg and on a good day topped 29mpg. I now own a RAM 1500 with the hemi and am not disappointed in the gas mileage although I did drive a 6.7L Dodge and it gave almost the same fuel mileage as the old 82 half ton.
I see that the auto mags say that people did not want the diesel in the half ton and that is just BS. Chevy could not keep them on the lots and because of that you paid a premium for the diesel with big discounts on the gas powered trucks.
I am considering on laying out some cash on the new Dodge but if Chevy does announce the diesel in the half-ton then I’ll wait and see.
I didn’t know GM had a 6.2L diesel in their half tons, those fuel economy numbers sound great, what was it like when towing/hauling as well as cruising down the highway?
It didn’t have forced induction so you had to downshift going up hills and mountains, but then again it made up for it on the downside.
I pulled a Ford diesel tractor on a trailer with it’s implements or my 28′ travel trailer and it had no strain and never felt like it was towing anything. The mileage dropped down to 25mpg when towing. It’s average was around 27 on a day to day basis.
If my son-in-law had not totaled the truck I’d still be driving it.
Lol, well it’s unfortunate the truck got totaled first of all. Second of all, I didn’t know a diesel could make that big of a difference in this class. But seriously this proves that GM needs to dust off the 4.5L sooner.
The 3.0L Ram EcoDiesel has 240hp, 420 lb. ft. and is rated at 28 highway with the ZF sourced 8 spd. The reality is, it’s a tough combination to beat. It appears to be a nearly ideal trade-off between power and fuel economy. Neither GM or Ford has anything now or coming soon to match these numbers?
Ford has the 3.2L inline 5 turbo diesel that will be available in their new full-size vans, but they don’t appear anywhere close to offering that engine in a pick-up? It’s also not as strong a performer (in European tune – 200hp, 350 lb.ft) as the Ram engine.
GM has the shelved 4.5L Duramax V8 engine. It would far exceed the Ram in power, but also would be very expensive and thirstier.
Nissan & Toyota? will offer the Cummins 5.0L V8 turbo diesel V8 with big power (reportedly more than 300hp, and about 550lb.ft.) but what about the fuel economy? What about the huge premium (I’m guessing well north of $6000) those engines will surely command?
In summary, Ram/Chrysler has a significant jump on everyone else with this engine/transmission. Remember, it’s not just about how many diesels they sell? Many people go to the dealership to “check out that diesel 1/2 ton”, but they buy regular gas powered Ram trucks, incentives and all.
This is a nice truck, I believe it cut down 700lbs by using more aluminum.
Consider This Game Changer;
The new Ford 2.7 V6 EcoBoost twin turbo engine made of CGI engine block…!!
This gives Ford an efficient n powerful “moving target” (ref WardsAuto)… !!!
Why?
Because CGI gives Ford the flexibility to adjust the Compression Ratio up around 15:1 or even 18:1…!
The benefits are greater power and efficiency like a Diesel without the added expenses of a Diesel…!!!
So who wins the engine war?
If you can get Diesel-like power n efficiency in a less expensive gas engine… Why buy a Diesel…!
War over… Ford wins…!
That’s why all the knowledgeable engine techs at the Detroit Auto Show were so surprised n smiling at Fords innovative 2.7 EcoBoost with CGI… It is The Game Changer…!!!
umm, the 3.0 VM diesel is also CGI block. Let’s do this, why don’t we wait until the motor is out and see what the real fuel economy is for the 2.7 in a crewcab 4×4 f150. A team just hypermiled a 3.0 ecodiesel ram 1500 crewcab 4×4 for 1000 miles and was able to achieve 38.1 mpg. Diesel has more BTU’s or energy, so it has a natural edge, however the emissions control systems are more expensive. I would believe the war is just starting.
Obviously Greg is a big fan boy of Ford’s. Don’t get me wrong the 2.7 EcoBoost is an interesting engine with some neat tricks, but you simply can’t get diesel like mileage from a gas motor given an equal amount of engine development. It’s pretty simple as mb pointed out, diesel simply has more energy in it per gallon than gas, so it will always get better mileage. BTW, I really don’t think the 2.7 EcoBoost will be a game changer, it will be just another gas option, light duty diesels are a game changer because they really have never been an option in the US before.