Global Cadillac Chief Marketing Officer, Uwe Ellinghaus, said he sees California-based electric automaker Tesla as more of a learning exercise and opportunity than a threat, Mlive reports.
“I am not afraid of Tesla,” Ellinghaus told reporters after a panel discussion at the 2014 Automotive Forum presented by J.D. Power and the National Automobile Dealers Association. “I think Tesla is a great opportunity and a learning exercise for all of us, and will help us traditional manufacturers to think twice about electric mobility.”
Ellinghaus said Tesla has forced them into a different way of thinking where it knows it needs to broaden its offering of electric or hybrid vehicles. The brand’s only electrified vehicle, the ELR, has been compared to Tesla’s critically acclaimed Model S. The ELR is in a similar price bracket, starting at $75,995, about $6,000 more than the price of a base Tesla Model S at $69,900. A high-performance variant of the all-electric Model S, called P85, is also available starting at $89,900.
According to Ellinghaus, the demand for electric vehicles comes from consumers who don’t want to sacrifice the performance another luxury sedan might offer in exchange for better gas mileage.
“There is no willingness to really sacrifice on the traditional qualities of a luxury car. These are not cars for tree huggers, as tree huggers do not buy new luxury cars,” he said.
The Cadillac exec also noted electric vehicles will eventually become more commonplace, rather than the defining feature of a vehicle.
“Cylinder counting, we all learned, is an intellectual disease that journalists and automotive managers are far more prone to than customers,” Ellinghaus said. “I think the same holds true to engine technology.”
Ellinghaus was part of panel called “What is Affordable Luxury? Competing and Winning an Expanding Field of Buyers.” Mlive says much of the conversation among the panel involved how luxury brands have to change or alter themselves to attract a new-generation of car consumers. Other panelists included representatives from Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Infiniti and Hyundai.
Comments
Cadillac should have no reason to fear Tesla.
The truth is Tesla proved something the entire industry did not think was possible and that was to sell a expensive electric luxury car. Now that they know it they all are working on new product to bring to the market. If anything Tesla should be worried as most MFGs have much deeper pockets and much more extensive technology units to work with to take this a step beyond what they can.
In fact it is their worst nightmare that the others have taken notice as while they have a lead the others can close the gas fast and make them at risk. This is why they are investing in their charging stations as fast as they can as it is the one thing they have an advantage on over the other.
The fact the Tesla car is not really anything technologically advanced over what anyone else has. They all have eclectic motor as good or better. They all have batteries that can do the same thing but they just never used them in a car this large or a battery this big.
The issue now is the style battery they are using at Tesla now Is falling out of favor a many are turning to the flat cell batteries. The cylinder style are just not popular and Tesla is investing more into them. Sales are down on this style as most products are going to the flat wafer style.
The ELR was just what GM had laying around to get something out fast. The concept car was a hit and the rest of it went together pretty easy and got them into the market now and not 4-5 years from now.
At this moment you can be sure BMW. Benz, Toyota, Honda and GM all have a full electric sedan in the works. These cars may be late to the party but they will dominate the market and could easily make Tesla at risk.
As for Elon, I had to laugh when I heard where he was buying parts for his Rockets for Space X. You would think someone of this stature would be buying them direct from the MFG and not a secondary mail order retailer? What’s next Walmart?
While it is true that Cadillac has no reason to fear Tesla, Tesla has no reason to fear Cadillac. At end of the day, the EV market will be big enough for all the players.
As Tesla said it before, they want other players to enter the market because the more players that push the market, the cheaper that batteries will become.
And no, Tesla’s technology is more advanced then what the others have. It is not as simple as just “sticking in a bigger battery”. The Tesla drivetrain is very advanced and scalable. There is a reason why Mercedes and Toyota decided to use Tesla’s technology instead of their own, simply because Tesla was ahead of them technologically in electric drive trains.
The style of the battery is not an issue, the 18650 form factor will still be cheaper than the form factor others use for this decade, next decade the form factor GM and other chose will win out. Both GM and Tesla are making the right call, their objectives are just different.
What Tesla is planning is to use the 18650 form factor, then move on to metal-air batteries. GM on the other hand is more interested in hybrids then pure electrics and since most of their cars are budget cars, metal-air batteries will be too expensive for their client base. The lower price of the flat battery packs will work for their low end plugin hybrids to achieve lowest cost. The difference here is GM is going the hybrid route while Tesla is going the pure EV route.
“As for Elon, I had to laugh when I heard where he was buying parts for his Rockets for Space X. You would think someone of this stature would be buying them direct from the MFG and not a secondary mail order retailer? What’s next Walmart?”
I don’t think you have any clue what you are talking about here though. SpaceX builds all parts in-house. Before, SpaceX was exploring the option of saving costs by buying up refurbished parts. But there are no “straight from manufacturers”. This isn’t like building cars. The “manufacturers” are countries. And its not so simple as going up to a country and saying “Hey, I got this new startup and can I buy some of your nuclear silo technology?”. So the only way to get your hands on such parts is through 3rd party sources. In the end SpaceX decided to build everything in-house instead.
Sir you have no clue.
Just what technology does Tesla have that is so advanced? Hell GM has build more electric trains in the last 70 years than anyone and based much of the Volt technology on these Diesel electric trains.
All Tesla did that was ground breaking was build a luxury car that no other thought would sell and found it sold. In time the others will catch and pass up Tesla in what they have as they do not have the capital to match the billions the other already have.
As for the mail order parts I know as I have seen the invoices. They do not make everything themselves. They may manufacture sections and components they use but they have to buy their parts some where to do so or do you think they really machine all their wire, hoses and fittings etc. themselves.
You may buy Musk line of crap as his use of media and the web has been his greatest accomplishment. His media is what has really propelled this car farther than it’s charge range. I do not expect them to vanish over night but I do see them selling out or merging with a larger MFG at some point as they can not make it alone once the others join the party and one of them will want a ready made eclectic car to add to their line up.
The Tesla is a good car but it is the only real car in it’s segment. With billions that will pour in from the others it will become a very competitive segment and Tesla as it is now will be the knife at a gun fight.
The Tesla drivetrain is very advanced, all from the motor (getting to 130mph and such acceleration with only 2 motors and not using multiple gears is not easy). Then the advanced cooling and battery management system and the scability of the Tesla platform allows them to make cars like Toyota Rav 4 EV and Mercedes B class electric in no time.
And Seriously? trains? The technology to build trains and cars is very very different.
I don’t doubt that others will “catch up” eventually but Tesla is not sitting still either, money also is not the only factor as time is also important and Tesla has the first mover advantage. On top of that, auto manufacturers are not as powerful as they used to be back in the days. And one of the big disadvantage that other manufacturers have is that they have billions invested in the ICE, since they don’t want to lose billions in investments they spent on the ICE, it prevents them from going all-in into future technologies which gives companies like Tesla a bigger lead.
But again, the EV market is big enough for ALL OF THEM.
As far as SpaceX goes, they make most of their own components in-house. They might buy some common parts from elsewhere for reasons simply due to economies of scale. One example is how Tesla orders parts from Mercedes because Mercedes gets a larger volume discount.
I do not see them selling out or merging with another manufacturer any time this decade. By the time the other manufacturers catch up to Tesla, they will be more than able to handle themselves financially.
Again just exactly what is so special on the Tesla that no one else can do, Please do detail it as you have out lined nothing that anyone can and will do.
Acceleration to 130 can be easily done with powerful electric motors if you have a large enough battery to propel it. Most companies are using smaller cars and have to use smaller battery packs as they have no room for the larger pack. To get the most they use smaller more efficient motors to stretch the battery life.
One of the most advance cooling systems is in the Volt as we speak. I agree not easy but others have done it.
Yes they are invested in ICE but they all know they need EV cars and are looking for what will sell. To Musk credit he found a niche that works as the higher cost of the Luxury car makes it easier to live on selling $25,000 units a year and still make back some return.
While you and many others have taken the Musk BS flavored Kool Aide it is a matter of time where he will just be a smaller player or a partner with someone. He has deep pockets but not that deep. Wall Street is surprised he has not tumbled already and at some point he will. I expect he will sell or partner to save his investment and ego.
But again just what does Tesla have in their car that no one else can make. The electric motors can be reproduced easy and hold not special technology that no one else has. His batteries are nothing special and nothing no one else can produce. His cooling system is nothing all that special that others do not already have or can make.
I will admit it is a nice car and a good car. I hope it does make it but I am not blind to what it really is. The key to the success of this car was being a car that could sell for $75-$105K. It is like selling sport cars as they are easy to sell at $250K and up but damn hard to sell at $20K at low volume.
If you want Musk to impress me then have him sell 100,000 units of a EV car yearly at $25-$30K. You want hard to do that is the difficult case to solve there. I know he said he will at some point but the fact is until he does do it that is all talk.
He will hit a bump in the road at some point as they all do and it will be telling how they are able to deal with it. In his case he really has no net.
I am not really a Tesla hater but I also have my feet in reality of the market with no real dilutions of reality. I know this car is what it is and it has no flux capacitor working any real magic.
Getting 2 motors to 130mph without a 2nd gear and such a large car is not as easy as it sounds. The issue with such compact motors is overheating and etc.
And your statement about the Tesla Model S being a large car thus a large battery is the secret is silly. It is not just the size of the battery but also the energy density of the battery. On top of that you don’t realize how scalable Tesla’s platform is.
It is not as simple as just throwing in a larger pack and calling it a day.
As I said before, competition is going to catch up. There is no kool aid, Musk even says it himself the competition will catch up and he wants them to catch up. But that doesn’t mean that Tesla is sitting still fidgeting their fingers, and the more time the manufacturers give Tesla, the bigger lead they will secure. The investments in ICE prevents them from spending the allocated funds or talent on EVs. A lot of the talent from GM and other brands who specialize in electrification have left to Tesla as they see their talents better utilized there.
What Tesla has special is their drive train, their battery technology and their platform. Sure other will be eventually be able to replicate Tesla’s technology, but TODAY they can’t and it will take them time to catch up. Your argument is silly because you can apply it to anything. There is nothing in this world that others can’t replicate given time and money. But as time passes, the other side does not just sit still.
That is what is called “First mover advantage”.
Tesla will have no problem selling over 100,000 cars. They will probably sell over that amount with Model S and X alone. With the Gen 3 they plan to sell over 500,000.
But again, the EV market is growing at such a pace that there is enough room for ALL OF THEM.
Though I am interested in one thing, what kind of reality dilution do you think is going on? Because there is no such thing. If you actually have been following Musk, he is a TERRIBLE speaker. And he doesn’t have an ego like you claim. If anything he actually goes out of his way to offer credit where it is due. The whole reality distortion and ego is a myth based on characterization of Musk being like Steve Jobs. They are nothing alike. Jobs was a marketer, Musk is an engineer. But in terms of personalities, they are nothing alike.
Wow I will give you credit for trying. You did make a better attempt than you little buddy below.
Sorry but electric motors do not need transmissions. They can be set to produce max torque through the range of the vehicles performance. Generally most are compromised for more efficiency as they has limited power they can tap into.
Besides doing 130 MPH in a EV is pretty much pointless. Even in the Tesla that would kill your range and you would be parked if you ran to that number or stayed there long. Even running a heater in the winter cuts the range by a good number.
As for 100,000 car with several models they may make it but the limiting factor is cars in this price range do not sell in great numbers even with ICE engines. Not everyone can buy a $75K+ car.
As for spending on ICE the reality is 90% of the market is set for ICE and it is only part of some very large budgets that more than cover this. GM has more money to spend on EV cars than Tesla but they were not expecting the market to move to a larger more expensive car that is so much easier to build since you can sell it for more. Just try to build a EV an sell it for $35K and see how hard it is to turn a profit. Elon took the risk and proven a segment no one else thought was there. He is mining that segment as much as he can till the others arrive.
The truth is I agree Musk is not a good speaker but he is a master at Marketing. He has identifies a market that no one else thought would work. He has used the web for product promotion that had put them on the map and his ego puts him out there as he has never shied away from an interview or even a Movie appearance. He is the key in his promotion of this car that has really made it big in the public eye.
To be honest this car is big in some areas like California etc but in many areas you see little to none of these. Also in the areas like here you see it when it is warm but never seen them when it is snowing and cold.
I give Elon credit for moving the status of a EV in the public eye but the market still has a long way to go. The Major MFG all want this segment to take off as it would help them in future CAFE standards and let them continue to sell larger trucks and performance vehicles along side them.
The problem is no one has perfected a affordable EV that the average guy could buy and live with as an only car. Even with a supercharger it still takes time if you taking a trip to recharge that filling gasoline can not beat. There are still many who hate to stop to take a leak on a long trip let along 20 min to recharge if they are the first in line.
To be honest I think Hydrogen would be a great move but the real issue is no one is willing to invest in faster and more populated filling stations.
I have driven many EV cars and even a Hydrogen. I like them but they are just not yet for everyone. Once that barrier is broken then we may see a better acceptance.
By the way is the battery in a Tesla one of the largest on the market Yes. Would the battery of it’s size fit into a Leaf, Volt or Focus EV….no. How much does it cost over the other smaller packs ….a lot more.
You will see the other duplicate what Tesla has done in the next few years with little investment. They all have had this stuff but no one thought it would sell. Ask any auto executive 8 years ago a $75K+ EV would sell 25K units and they all would have said you were insane. Elon has proven different but he has yet to built the lower price high volume long range car and that is where it gets hard.
When did I say they NEED a transmission? Just pointing out that to get 120mph and above is extremely difficult without gears. But that is one of the advancements of the Tesla Model S (To get it done without a transmission). And doing 130mph is not pointless, it has uses on the track and when you want to pass people.
Running the heater in winter is not that significant in the scheme of things. About 13 – 17%.
As far as price range goes, there are over 2 million cars world wide sold in the 100k+ range. Plus remember that a 75k EV is more affordable than a 75k gasoline car. Most people that buy cars don’t just throw down the full sum, they get financing. So the sticker price is not what really matters but the TCO and your monthly payments. The savings in fuel and maintenance can easily half the price.
And yes, that is one of the weaknesses of GM, since most of their money is invested in ICE it makes it harder for them to set asside funds for EVs, especially since most manufacturers treat all alternative technologies under a seperate budget. So the people working on BEVs in GM have to share the budget with people working on fuel cells, natural gas, propane, and all the other alternative fuels. I terms of actual spending on EVs themselves, I’d argue Tesla has them beat at this point. On top of that, being a big company like GM, there is a lot of inefficiencies and mobility. Another thing not helping GM is that they are run by accountants, not engineers. Again, I am not saying GM won’t catch up eventually, but the more time GM and others sits there planning their approach, the bigger lead Tesla will secure.
Yes, Musk is a very important factor to Tesla and the company overall and has a talent for finding unique markets. But I won’t call him having an ego. Though interesting enough, Musk before used to be a shy person.
California is a big market for EVs, though your statement about not being there where its cold is simply not true. Washington and NY are some of the top selling states and it gets fairly cold there. It also sells very well in Norway, was #1 selling car last month(of all cars). Actually last month they broke a record for the #1 selling car of all time in a month in Norway. The car does very well in the snow and the cold, though some people do prefer to “baby” their car. With the 5.9 update it is even better since now you can raise the height of the car when driving which helps with snow.
And no, the major manufacturers wish the segment limited success. They want to do well in the segment but they don’t want the segment to go too fast either. Again, they have huge investments in ICE. This can be clearly seen by the manufacturer’s response with “Compliance cars”. I mean you probably noticed the fact that the most EVs are pretty much compacts. The only EV SUV on the market until the Model X comes out is the RAV 4 EV, and Toyota limits it to California only and it has no fast charging. Not only that, the terms pretty much says that if you drive the car outside of California, it voids the warranty. You can’t exactly say the major manufacturers want the segment to “take off”.
As I mentioned before, the Tesla Model S is much more affordable then people give it credit when you look at the entire TCO. Many people have the Tesla Model S as their only car. 99.9% of trips are within the Tesla Model S range so most of the recharging will be done at home. The supercharger is for long distance travel that 0.1% of the time, the point is you recharge while you eat and sleep. That is not to say it works for everyone, because no 2 people are the same. That is why we all drive different cars. But it can work practically for the majority. And things like cost and charge times will continue to go down.
The reality is, Hydrogen is a dead end. The biggest selling point of hydrogen is framing it like a clean gasoline car. But the reality is when your starting at a fresh state, are you trying to replicate a gasoline car? or trying to make the best car possible? This is where hydrogen cars fail at, they can replicate your gasoline car, but they won’t be as good as a BEV. And as you said infrestructure, the cost to build a 10,000psi station is 2-5 million per bay. To get a network up and running would cost trillions of dollars since refueling at home is not an option you would need a network as comprehensive as the gasoline network. And nobody wants to pay for it.
As far as the battery and if it would fit into a volt, leaf or focus EV is hard to say. But I will say this, in terms of dimensions, the Mercedes B class is around same size as a Leaf and still has much more electric range. Again, the key here is not just the size but the energy density. Keep in mind also that a Volt, Leaf, or focus EV are smaller EVs, thus would need smaller batteries to do same range as a Model S as well. For example, a Tesla Roadster does 200 miles on 53kwh while a 60kwh Model S is also 200 miles. The reason is the Roadster is smaller thus requires less energy to move it.
As far as how much it costs over the smaller packs, not that much more. Volt charges up to 34k to replace, leaf charges 18k to replace. Tesla charges around 30-35k to replace. (These are insurance rates, so it is possible the manufacturers are taking a profit on the replacement and not the actual cost to manufacturer).
Yes, we will see duplicates of what Tesla has done in a few years(though I won’t say with little investment, currently they don’t have the technology but will with time, again a lot of this isn’t even about money but about time and trial and error). And again, Tesla will not be sitting still. To be honest, when factoring in Tesla’s gross profit margin, it becomes obvious Tesla has the mass market EV in the bag from a financial standpoint.
“Scott” here is so lost in pure jealousy.
Awful.
Fact is, Tesla is a car most people desire. GM makes over a dozen model, and I want none. Same applies to most people with good taste.
Jonas you are so full of substance in you statement here.
How about offering some evidence that proves Tesla has any advance technology that no one else has or could reproduce in the near future.
Weapon tired to his credit but fell short. Please give us the details or is it all you have to offer is a personal attack as you have nothing to offer.
Empty post form those like you are to be expected.
While I do not agree with Weapon I at least respect him for his efforts.
It is people like you that have nothing to offer that damage the EV movement more than anything.
Weapon
I understand your points and while I may not agree, you provide a good argument for your side and I appreciate that.
Thanks!