Sure, this is GM Authority, but unforeseen circumstances have eliminated Pontiac from our daily coverage. In memory of the brand that launched the muscle car era with the 1964 GTO and finished it with the 1974 Super Duty Firebird, here’s a feature on a pretty neat 1968 GTO we found on eBay.
This bulletin shows dealerships announces the chrome bumper option for the GTO.
Nineteen sixty-eight was the year for many changes for the Pontiac GTO. It was the first for a new-generation body where the greenhouse was integrated with the body, while continuing to exploit the Coke-bottle rear fenders that made Pontiac famous just a few years before. Under the hood were mostly carry-over engines, although the base 400 was up 15 horsepower to 350; the two-barrel 400, 400 HO, and Ram Air motors continued as before, with the latter being superseded by the Ram Air II in April 1968. But the biggest news for the GTO was the Endura front Bumper, a hard plastic material that was designed to absorb low-speed impacts with no damage. This feature was unique in all the industry, and it likely was the contributing factor for the GTO winning Motor Trend‘s Car of the Year award.
But a little known option for the GTO was the chrome bumper option, code 674. In the case a prospective buyer felt the new body-colored bumper was too out-there, he or she could opt for the LeMans chrome bumper. It’s also been suggested that this option came about because Pontiac was having trouble making the new-fangled bumper fit properly. Whatever the case, the concealed headlights that were a GTO option were not available when the chrome bumper was chosen.
Even though this is a rather unusual and obscure option, over 2,000 GTOs were built with this bumper-delete option. You can imagine owners taking their cars to shows, only for spectators to remark, “That ain’t a GTO!” but when you look at this 1968 GTO on eBay, it’s all GTO in spite of the bumper. With the base 400 and optional M20 wide-ratio four speed, it’s equipped like many of the 87,000+ that were built in 1968, although this one has been modified with a 455 and several items that aren’t for the GTO purist. But as an example of an Endura-delete GTO, it’s just fine by us.
Comments
Pontiac could be resurrected as GM North America’s in-house tuning brand as well as importing the OPC line up from Opel and Holden Special Vehicles cars.
GM Authority there is no need to egg on those who are diluted into thinking Pontiac is coming back. You of anyone know GM has enough issues to deal with at this point.
Second do your home work as the chrome bumper was on this car as Pontiac did have issues with this at the start. In fact you could not get anything but the Chome early on as many people who had ordered early cars were disappointed they did not get the new bumper.
Finally the loosing of Pontiac was not all that unforeseen. It died a long time ago and too few people knew enough to really understand it. I too thought the old timers who hated anything post 79 were wrong but they were the ones who really got what being a Pontiac really was.
You can dress up a Camaro today or some may foolishly think slapping a OPC emblem on a Opel will make it a Pontiac. Even as good as the G8 was it really was never a Pontiac. We were glad to have it but it never truly was a Pontiac.
Those of use who grew up with the real Pontiacs of the 70’s and 60’s know that the heart of the Pontiac was the engines and intangibles that Chevy did not offer. Once you stripped the Pontiac engine away you were left mostly with a restyled body some different decals.
To be honest the only true Pontiacs built after 79 were the Fiero as it was never shared and was innovative as many of the past Pontiacs with the plastic body and other things it offered. It also not only had a real Pontiac engine though a 4 cylinder it was even the last car built in the Pontiac plant in Pontiac MI.
To those who think the post 79 cars were true Pontiac cars the fact is you missed out. Whiles these were more interesting than the Chevy line visually generally they really offered only a little more for the price paid.
While in the past Pontiac shared platforms they offered engines and features only found at Pontiac. If GM had let them do what they wanted to do they would have had radial tires and 4 wheel disc brakes in 1965. They already had a OHC I6 and was working on a OHC and DOHC V8 one of which is still running in private hands. Delorean even looked to Fuel Injection and even HEI ignition in the 60’s.
So while you may fool some with a re bodies car those of us who know the true history of Pontiac understand what it really the difference between a GM corporate car and a true Pontiac.
I attend many large Pontiac meets and even win at the national level with my car. I though when Pontiac died many at these events the true die hard owners would be upset, but I have found most felt they died along time ago and while they hated to see the loss of the name most really saw it coming as the line was so watered down to two models that had anything to do with performance.
The truth is for the last few years the Pontiac builds Excitement was false advertising.
To do Pontiac right would take more time and money vs. the number of cars they would sell to make it up. Pontiac’s time has come and gone.
Matt I have told you about Holden and Pontiac is not all that different. You lost Holden a long time ago and are only holding onto one platform. Pontiac sold in numbers similar to Holden and followed the same fate as you saw Chevys replace the other cars in the line the end was coming and to be honest like Pontiac it was over long ago.
This is why I say be happy with what you have as we have no chance of seeing Pontiac again. At least you will retain a top quality RWD sedan and coupe. At Pontiac in the end we did not even have a RWD coupe at a performance division.
I moved back to Chevy as it was the only place I could get a practical engine with any real performance in a vehicle that would haul things. I was never a HHR fan nor FWD but I have had a blast with my 300 HP HHR. It is an engine Pontiac should of had but never got other than the Solstice.
As I have stated to Matt the way Global auto making has evolved things have changed. The fact is there is little room for too many divisions anymore and there is no room for small markets making their own cars. Sad but true. The reality is performance only a side market in the big picture. GM also has needs much greater than a low volume performance division. While I hate it I am clear minded enough to understand this. There are times you have to let reality come in and accept it as you are not going to change it.
Sorry for the vent but once in a while someone who really knows Pontiac inside and out has to say what most of us real Pontiac people know and think. It took me a while to understand and accept this too but the truth is clear.
Now if there ever comes a time GM has Cadillac fixed, Buick/Opel fixed and Chevy number one globally then we can talk bringing Pontiac back but till then the money would be better suited fixing the issues they already have. If you have 3 divisions in great needs yet then why would you add one more that will sap their funding. Did some of us no learn from the first GM failure?
I would suggest if you have never been in or drove some of the great Pontiacs of the past take the time to do so. I have owned Chevy and Pontiac from this era. My father owned ever Chevelle from 67-73 and there is a different flavor entirely with the Pontiacs of this era. The added feathers the way they handled, the way they sounded and the way they drove.
Nothing like hopping into a 64 numbers matching 64 GTO with a tri power intake and 4 speed. The low end torque is amazing. Same for others I have drive like many of the Ram Air and Super Duty cars. A friend of my had a fully loaded 62 Catalina with even air and it would pull the left front wheel off the ground but also could be driven home with the AC on 2 hours away from the track. Now that is excitement.
But I understand why so many are fooled as access to some of these great cars is so limited anymore with the collector values. I was lucky in the 1980’s these were cars we drove to school and go to do some crazy things with them.
Drop a 428 Tri Power into a 65 GTO with a 3:08 gear and find out a how bad the aero of these cars are as the speedo wraps around past the 120 mark as you continue to accelerate. Note even with this gear the car would run 13’s all day with a stock automatic.
Scott as much as i hate to agree with you, what you say is true. In-fact it not only applies to Pontiac but ALL of GM’s brands (except Cadillac). The old great GM committed suicide when it went “corporate” across all of it’s brands and the only differences became styling and minor options.
I was and still am a hard core Poncho fan. But having owned a 1966 Bonneville 2dr hard top, and a mint low mileage 1967 Catalina 2dr hardtop with a high compression 400 (from a dead stop, on stock tires, that car would spin it’s open diff right rear wheel till you let off the gas – with NO power braking at all) I know exactly what you are talking about. I’ve experienced many old GM B, A, and F bodies, and the feel is as you say – completely different.
As Much as I love my 05 GTO, it’s a Poncho in spirit only. For one it never had the visual “swagger” a proper Poncho should have. Look at a clean 1965 Grand Prix (especially from the rear three quarter view) or any 60s GTO (1966-1967 GTOs have bucket fulls of it) and of course 1970-1977 Trans Ams. I will concede that the 98-2002 WS6 represented Pontiac well, but it was still a “corporate” exercise.
IF GM even considers bringing it back, the powers that be need to be locked in a room full of Pontiac greats like the 1957 Fuel injected Bonneville to 60s 2+2 Catalinas, and even an original “rope drive” Tempest. Pontiac sold it’s bread and butter on the shoulders of single-minded, unadulterated performance and in your face swagger. If GM isn’t willing to go that route, they should just leave it alone.
I have always kinda thought it would be interesting to see HSV do its magic with models offered in the US. I have further though that it would be interesting to see HSV license the Pontiac name and offer the cars they modify in the US as Pontiacs.
A total pipe-dream, of course, but still something that I’ve thought a lot about.
But would it really be a Pontiac or would it really be a Chevy HSV?
The questions is what is it that makes a Pontiac really a Pontiac? Is it a complete car that has its own technology, drivelines and tuning or is it a rebodied Chevy with a few extra trim items and a tuner package on a Chevy package?
Read the history of the Pontiac brand and see how it was a complete package. Best case example take a look at the 1969 Grand Prix and the 1970 Monte Carlo. While both were bases on the same long Chassis they were worlds apart inside and out. It was the high point of platform shareing with out being full on rebadging of the cars. It declined from there.
I understand how some can be confused to what Pontiac really was as they never saw the real Pontiac. Also many with in GM never understood what it meant to be a Pontiac. Bunkie Knudson and John Delorean did and many of the engineers but those above them had no clue.
Recommended reading is the Glory Years by Jim Wangers. Jim was there through all the years and while a bit of a blow hard PR man he does present what Pontiac was wanting to be and how it was lost after John left.
Also the Delorean book On a Clear Day You can see GM. out lines the mistakes and failures at Pontiac.
I would also recommend reading any writings by Don Keefe and John Sawruk. Don is the best historian and writer on the Pontiac line. John was in engineering and has outlined any of the things they did and were prevented from doing over the years before his passing. Also any interview with Herb Adams one of the lead engineers at Pontiac in the golden era is another to follow. All have well defined what Pontiac was and could have been and were it all was lost.
High Performance Pontiac also has had many great historic stories that many GM fans never heard. Many of these stories are on line and are very good reading. Don Keefe has provided many here in print with help from people in the GM tech center with information often never released before.
I know some pretty strong Pontiac fans at the tech center and they are the ones who have taught that Pontiac was more than a name or trim package. At one time it was a complete package with their own engineering and styling. That was lost over the years and with the way the market it may never come back.
I know that some do not like to hear this and I hate to say it but the truth is the truth like it or not.
Yes, I do understand what Pontiac was in its heyday. It was more than a rebadged Chevy. A lot more.
But, as even you say, those days are NOT coming back (whether Pontiac still existed or not). It’s too expensive for too little payoff. Shared platforms and drivetrains have been with us for decades and will continue into the future. Economies of scale and all that.
HSV finds itself in an bit of a scary position at the moment. With Holden winding down by 2017, HSV is trying to figure out what it’s going to do going forward. I read somewhere (maybe it was even here on GMAuthority) that they were investigating branching out into the US market. Perhaps that is truly only rumor, but it reinforced what I’ve been thinking for a while about how Pontiac, in spirit if not in actuality, could actually come back. The HSV name doesn’t really mean a lot in the US except for those few die-hard enthusiasts. So, if HSV wanted to come to the US, the HSV name might be a hard sell. Licensing the Pontiac name would give it some instant recognition.
Would it be a “true” Pontiac? Of course not. Again, those days are over. But, it could help carry on the spirit of what Pontiac was supposed to represent (successfully or not), even in its later years: a true performance car. How they achieve that is not as important as that they achieve it.
I’m fully aware that there’s not a chance this would actually happen the way I’ve described it. If HSV DOES come to the US, it will most likely be as some sort of Chevy sub-brand. But, with the understanding of economic realities, it’s a pretty cool outside-the-box idea.
The Endura bumper was closed-cell, self skinning, polyurethane foam molded over a steel core. The word from Pontiac to the dealership my father managed was that there was a problem with color matching between the bumpers and the bodies. It was not disclosed whether the bumpers were being painted in-house or at a supplier. The paint for the urethane was different from the acrylic lacquers used on the bodies, as it had to be both much more flexible and adhere to a different substrate. The primers were different, too, according to the bumper repair information issued for the body shops.
A friend of mine ordered an early “68 GTO, maroon with black vinyl top. The build kept being put off for the color match problem. Pontiac then issued the “Endura delete” option, and customers with outstanding orders were given the choice of continuing to wait or accept the chromed bumper. My friend opted for the chromed bumper, as he was graduating from college, had accepted a job over 1,000 miles away, and needed the car.
Interestingly, the Pontiac “Honeycomb” wheels that were offered a few years later were constructed in the same manner, from very similar materials, as the “Endura” bumpers. Those wheels were made by Motor Wheel Corp., Lansing, Michigan; Motor Wheel was a subsidiary of Goodyear Tire and Rubber. Goodyear was a supplier of foam urethane products, seat cushions, e.g., as well as its well-known tires, belts, hoses, etc.
OverlordSpock Pontiac was more than Spirit it was a complete package. Just look at all the re bodied Camaro/Firebirds and just see how that is working out. Many have tried and so few are sold. Real Pontiac people know the difference from
shit and shinola.
HSV needs to focus on Chevy as it is the reality. The real question and challenge will be to see how they can top the In house GM engineering since they have been freed up by Lutz and Reuss.
I just saw the lap times of the Camaro Z/28 and it surpassed what I had ever expected. It put down faster laps than a AWD 911S turbo and the AWD Nissan GTR4 Track edition. It also did it with the AC on the car and optional stereo that add 50 pounds. The coming Motor Trend does a test with it and many will be shocked at what they found. I expected close but not the performance they found.
Even Callaway today is having a difficult time making a better Corvette. Every time they do something GM tops them. In years past the factory cars were so under done they had a lot of room to work today not so much.
I understand what you’re saying about Pontiac. I’m not sure you’re understanding what I’m saying. The actuality of Pontiac is not coming back. Simply not going to happen. However, the spirit of the brand might be able to rekindled. It would not be Pontiac as a division of GM. It would be the name, used under license from GM, for the high-performance cars that HSV would modify.
The rebranded Camaro/Firebird atrocities aren’t working out because those cars are butt-ugly and severely overpriced (yes, I’m aware that HSV cars aren’t cheap either). Plus, the way they’re being marketed is practically nonexistent. An HSV/GM partnership under the Pontiac name might have more clout behind it.
At any rate, it really doesn’t matter as it’s simply not going to happen the way I laid it out either. HSV in the States, as I said earlier, would probably be a Chevy sub-brand and not definitely not branded as a Pontiac.
I get you!
It is best if you use other terms to describe it as when you toss in the P word it takes on a life of it’s own.
The problem with the Pontiac name is yes you do get some clout but at this point in time there is a lot of baggage to go with it. It would return the whole argument for some that they should not have killed them in the first place and two they would be held and compare to the past Pontiacs for better or worse. Neither is fair but that is what would happen. I would not want to be the marketing guy behind it.
If I were to bring back any name I would let HSV use the GM Performance Division banner again. This group build and tuned some of the best cars in the last 10 years. Thought the group is not together as an official group they people have been moved from fixing finished platforms to handle to designing them from the start to handle. Mark Steilow has been overseeing a bulk of the work being done on the new cars and even the base models reflect his performance background.
Better to relate this deal to a Tuner image like Shelby, SVO, AMG or AMG Black etc. than a dead division and one that was very troubles in the later years. GM at some point may find a place again if the markets change. They will always have the rights to the name so it will be there if the stars ever lines up.
You answered yourself well enough on the rest that there is no more need to comment on the outcome.
Thumbs up to you!
Joseph you are correct the paint was the major issue. Also some alignment issues too.
As for Motor Wheel your history again is spot on. The old Honey Comb wheels are pretty rare today as they are impossible to find in good original form and expensive to restore. Also they were heavy so very heavy.
Motor Wheel and Pontiac also worked on a Plastic wheel for the Fiero in 1984-85. I knew a engineer who worked at Goodyear on the tire package. He has a set on his 1985 GT. I wish I knew where they were today. There is a set on the 1990 Fiero GT in the historic collection today.
The last of the Fiero internal engineer rebellion was over around 1990 as many of the guys who were part of pushing the limits retired around this time. After this time few limits were ever pushed again till Lutz brought the Solstice.
I grew up loving the Firebird Trans Am GTA, thanks to him I in love for American cars
The Indian and arrow, always in my heart, i loved the sport style of their cars
Regards from Spain
Although it is highly unlikely that Pontiac will come back as of now, I will say that they offered something no other GM brand could ever replace! I have seen all Pontiac’s and appreciate them all. The Grand Prix and Bonneville were some of the best vehicles Pontiac had in its last 15 years! The 2010 G6 GT and 2009 Torrent GXP were some lookers that only needed a new engine/transmission lineup, updated interiors, extra options, and AWD or new RWD platforms. .
Pontiac was the best for a very poor line up of cars GM had in the 80’s and 90’s.
The Torrent and G6 were two of the final nails in the coffin. For a division that claimed to be a performance division these two offering lacked one key ingredient. Performance! While they were better than the other GM cars they were no where near the best Pontiac ever offered. No performance or innovation here like in so many of the past cars.
How could GM do a G5 or G6 and not let Pontiac use the LNF 2.0? Did Pontiac really need a CUV with Buick in the show room?
I was at the home of a GM marketing manager who oversaw the Chevy Monte Carlo and the Impala a few years back. He told me of the infighting for engines and versions of cars. He wanted the Series III 3800 SC for the Chevys to give the option of regular fuel but was shut out. But on the other hand Pontiac had cars like the G6 and even back in the 80’s a 2+2 that could not get the HO engine the Monte SS had.
Talk about a messed up marketing plan. It is a wonder GM did as well as they did in these years.
It is nice they have the look of finally getting it together and fixing many of the issues that prevented product like they really need.
Jonathan I am glad you see the value in these cars in a place few others even know much about them. I wish you could come over here and take a ride in some of the great ones from the past. The noise and shaking of the old cars is amazing. Now stopping them with the original drum brakes could make for some white knuckles. LOL!
My favorite was a 455 SD Trans Am as it stopped and turned well and would run a 1/4 mile in 12.5 seconds with only a cam change. My other favorite is my buddy’s 64 GTO.
One other one that remains dear to me was the 69 Grand Prix with the 390 HP 428.
Keep in mind our daily drive to school was often a 63 GP with a 67 Ram Air IV engine. It was big but fast. My buddies dad still has it with the tri power still on it.
I actually really enjoy the fact of a performance CUV! My grandma’s Terrain handles corners outstandyling well and the Torrent was good too! The G6 was a very handsome vehicle and I think the 2010 GT Sedan was the best looking GM car at the time. Where they went wrong were the engines and transmissions! A 4-Speed in 2010 was not very game changing now was it? The 3.4 and 3.5 V6’s were peppy with cold air intakes, yet pathetic stock and the 3.6 is/was not GXP badge worthy with 252HP.
The 2010 G6 GT better looking than a 2010 CTS-V, or even a 2010 G8 GT/GXP?!? Surely you jest!
No, I am not joking. The 2010 G6 GT and 2009 Torrent GXP had beautiful exteriors! The interior on the 2010 G6 was on the right track, but some more higher quality materials and options would have been nice. I would have appreciated a Heads Up Display, Navigation, Dual Climate, Heated/Cooled Power Sport Front Seats, Rear Entertainment, TapShift, UltraView Moonroof, HiPer Struts, Sport Suspension, Sport Brakes, Premium Leather, Soft-Touch Door Panels and Dash Materials.
Sorry but even discounted heavily they were hard to sell.
There was two generations of Pontiac. The early era of leading performance, styling and technology or as much as they could get away with. Then the later age that were Chevys with a little more flair and hint of performance here and there.
Sorry the G6 just never lived up to expectations and even with the additions you suggest it would never have saved it. The Torrent was a better Nox but that was not hard to do. Today the New Nox and Terrain even based on the same platform are much better but what is this vehicle even in a performance division in the first place? It should have been a GMC all along.
Even in test at the time the Malibu and Aura both always rated higher than the G6 due to the extra time they used to refine the cars. They both were better cars but far from being a real performance model. Lutz had the right ideas to save them but he came about 5-8 years too late.
Hi, Scott, the Ram Air IV didn’t come out till 1969. The only Ram Air motor available in 1967 was what’s known as the RA I.
Diego
Sorry but the engine came out of a 67 GTO that was raced and where it came from before that I have no idea as the GP had been around since 1968 and lost the 389 in the 70’s.
The engine lost a flywheel and it blew part of the back webbing off and was not any good for use with a bell housing but it will still work with a automatic. All of this happened long before I was ever able to drive and is the path the engine took to get to this car. The 67 GTO is owned by a son of a guy I work with now. It is painted and just needs re assembled. t is being put back to street use. His father owns the Catalina that was runner up to Jim Wangers at the US Nationals In Detroit in 1960. It is the blue car in the famous painting in the other lane from the Royal Pontiac car. It was originally own by Pete Seaton and was considered the First Seaton Shaker.. It is a factory Catalina coupe with the factory 4 speed, Petes father was a GM excutive and the car came from GM with Stewart Warner gauges mounted in the car in dash. We do not know if GM did this or if Royal Pontiac did if for GM. It is one of those oddities that we have not been able to figure out. Who ever did it did not just do the simple thing and put them under dash splicing the harness.
So to make a long story short we just called it the 67 engine. Sorry to not give the dull story but when all this happened me and my buddy were just learning how to ride bikes. The engine is still round as id the GP.
Terry the guy I work with also worked with my Buddies father at Kannafel Pontiac of Akron Ohio. They helped on the old Tin Indian cars and even raced a lesser know sedan for Bill Kannafel. The stories they can tell. They had the drivers from the dealer like Arlen Vanke and a couple others meet up at the Pontiac National to talk about the old days.
My buddy and his family have had a series of many good Pontiacs over the years and a couple other people we know also have had some very good collectables models too. I have been lucky to be able to drive most of these older cars over the years. Some have been traded and some are still around.
But to get back to the original topic no matter the year it is a true Ram Air IV engine and that is the path it took to the 63 GP, Note too the tri power is not from the GP either as it is a unit off of another car. It does carry the single air cleaner housing as used back them by the full size cars. The car also has the rare 421 emblems but they were just left overs from the Pontiac Dealer and the car never did have a 421 in it.
Note too we had many 455 and 428 engines to chose from so if I state a GTO had a 428 or a 67 Firebird has a 455 the were put in by us back in our high school days in the 80’s.
One of the 428 engines right now is in a 76 Jag sedan wen it lost it’s V12. The car has never been more reliable or faster. It is fun to open the hood and surprise some people.
Scott, several years late, but I think you missed the typo you made that I highlighted:
“Keep in mind our daily drive to school was often a 63 GP with a 67 Ram Air IV engine…”
I pointed out the RAIV came out in 1967, and the only Ram Air engine in 1967 was what’s known today as the RAI. That comment still stands.
Did some one say SD455 Trans Am?!? In my opinion the single best car Pontiac EVER made!
Although I’ll happily settle for any 400ci powered 1970-1973 T/A or Formula.
The 455 SD was good and would respond well to small changes well for that era. Too bad he sold the car before the prices went up. We all were rich but we all sold many of these cars before the big money came in. But in most cases we still doubled out money.
A few of the cars are still around. I see a few of them yet. Even the old slant 4 Tempest Convertible we used to beat around in is nicely restored to show condition by the present owner.
The best division, ever!!!
It’s just like rock ‘n’ roll, it will never die.
More like Elvis.
Dead but never forgotten!
As much as I’d like it to happen, Pontiac just isn’t coming back, GM can’t build a business case for a division that’ll sell cars in small numbers at a time when gas is $4 on average. Still it’s not a sin for one to dream of what could have been. And on the topic of HSV tuning Chevys for North America; it’s just not worth it. What can HSV bring to the market that GM’s North American engineers can’t do? They haven’t really made any vehicles that people here actually care about. GM North America has brought us the c6 z06, the c6 zr1, the camaro zl1, z/28, the new z06 version of the c7, and let’s not forget the outgoing Cadillac cts-v, the new cts vsport, and the camaro ss 1le.
Thanks for the touch of reality here.
That is my concern on HSV as with the GM engineers turned loose as they are now it will be difficult to pass up their creations as there are so few limits on them anymore.
10 years ago a car like a Z/28 would never have been approved as a business case.
I am excited to see the new Alpha Camaro as it should see refinement that we have never experienced in a Camaro before and I expect the performance to be a large step beyond what we have today.
68v GTO clone WT block, punched out .60(409cid) Edelbrock 750 and Edelbrock intake . 6X 8 heads, 068 tripower cam. Runs high 13’s with 2.56 gears and a turbo 400. Top end is 145 so far. Nuff said…
Just an FYI for any who care, I had an early 1968 GTO convertible, His&Hers shifter, standard 400 ram air, and it came from the factory with steel front bumber. They do exist! I wrapped it around a telephone pole as a stupid young kid… do anything to still have it if I could. Memories…