GM-Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell Partnership Aims To Reduce Production And Research Costs14
Last year, General Motors and Honda announced a partnership to collaborate on hydrogen fuel cell technologies. Both companies have independently made headway in regards to the research and development of fuel cell systems and hydrogen storage technologies and are partnering up to save costs, according to a presentation made at the SAE 2014 Hybrid & Electric Vehicle Technologies Symposium by GM’s fuel cell research and development director, Mark Mathias.
Honda and GM are looking to have the fuel cell technologies ready by 2020. The two companies have cross-licensed their hydrogen fuel-cell know-how to reduce costs, as the development and material costs are what usually prevent automakers from delivering a mass-market zero-emissions hydrogen powertrain. Honda currently makes the FCX Clarity hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in limited quantities, but hopes to introduce a mass-market, hydrogen-powered model by 2015, according to Green Car Congress.
In addition to developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, GM and Honda will work to improve hydrogen refueling infrastructure in California over the next few years. GM said last year that expanding infrastructure “is critical for the long-term viability and consumer acceptance of fuel cell vehicles” but currently has no definitive plans to put a hydrogen-powered vehicle into production.
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I wish GM would/could do it on it’s own! Keeping everything in house would allow GM to keep all the profits from the project!
But if this is what needed to happen why didn’t they sign a deal with Ford?
At least the technology stays in the country in terms of who controls it!
At least it wasn’t with that really bad T word!
This a bigger deal than anyone company can deal with. The Government is all over wind mills when they have done little to help here.
The reason GM and Honda paired up is they are the only two that have the most advanced viable fuel cell programs.
This could advance things faster but there are still major issues with fueling. Not enough filling stations and with the present technology you can only fill 5-6 cars an hour.
If they get it worked out it will make Tesla look like yesterday.
The fuel cell problem is not to big for one company getting the fuel companies to support the distribution of Hydrogen is the main struggle!
These type’s of cars have been driving around for well over a decade I think by now they have a good idea how those systems work!
Brian that is the problem Brian as the fuel companies will not invest unless there are more cars. A single company can not supply enough cars unless they get cheaper and more plentiful. GM and Honda can work together to bring the cost down and supply enough cars to get the fuel suppliers to invest in the infrastructure to fuel them.
It is not unlike chicken and the egg or even some of the high tech TV items. Unless there is a larger market the new second gen HD TVs will see slow growth of support as they will not release many video’s if there is no market.
Same on the car. No cars no filling station. No filling station no cars.
This is a partnership that will reap some results. But I am still not sure even they will be enough. I have driven a fuel cell car and I love it but the issues are still needing to be worked out.
I disagree I think one company can do it alone! If a company had a car that got 100 mpg on gas it would sell like crazy and people would buy all of them!
If GM sold fuel cell cars that got say 1500 miles between fill up people would buy them and deal with finding refueling station and they would increase as word of mouth spreads!
It’s not really that hard!
Brian you can disagree but reality is going to bite you in the butt.
First off even if the car could do 100 MPG the issue is the billions needed to install filling stations. a 100 MPG car does little good if it has no where to fill and would take hours in line to fill. At least with the EV you can fill at home.
Also the cost to build and sell these cars is too high yet and that is what this partnership was formed to help.
I have worked with liquid Oxygen, Nitrogen and Hydrogen. It is not cheap or as easy to fill as gasoline. There is a lot more involved and it is not something you can find on just any corner. If you think you limited in a Tesla in Kokomo In due to the lack of charging stations you would be even more limited for a hydrogen fill.
I read the test drive in LA on a Equinox fuel cell vehicle. The reviewer loved it. But he had to drive half way across LA to get the fill station in a industrial area. He had to use a good portion of his supply just to get there and back to where he was going.
right now there is no real infrastructure to fill these things and that needs to be resolved. Shell has shown interest but if there are no cars why should they invest? It is much like the batteries technology in cars. Much of what we have now was spurred by Cell Phone and lap top investment. Now that GM, Tesla and others have invested in cars more people have invested in batteries.
The first gen Volt was more about establishing a market to get people to invest in the items needed for the cars. GM has established this and now has a large group of partner companies willing to work with them and invest in development. The same has to happen here but there is less demand for the hydrogen car at this point so a partner will help investment is they share systems.
Brian this is just not one of those things where you can say just build it they will come. If it were that easy we would have had these long ago.
Sorry there is good ideas but there also the reality that prevents many of them and this is one. The cost will be great but the more companies that join in will help and spur investment in the things these cars need to take off.
I would recommend reading up on the Nox Hydrogen car and just what it takes to run one. I loved the one I drove but even living here in the industrial mid west it would be impractical for me to own one unless they improve the fueling and lower the cost of the technology. There really would be little if any saving until then.
Sorry but clicking the ruby slippers and wishing you were in Kansas is just not going to work here.
GM and Honda are doing the right thing.
If somebody is getting 1500 miles on a 20 gallon tank which is double sometimes triple what cars are doing now people would have no problem driving 20 or 30 miles once a month in order to lower their monthly fuel cost that significantly!
As word of mouth spreads so would those fuel stations!
Not going to happen at those kinds of mpg.
People will drive across the city and wait in line for hours if now days for a new x box system or new I phone you don’t think people will drive a few miles each month to save half on their gas bill!
Answer is yes!
There is a vast gulf between consumer electronics and a car. It’s measured in tens of thousands of dollars, lifecycle, intended consumer, and other factors.
Computer modeling done by one of our members, the National Fuel Cell Research Center at UC Irvine, shows that the market in California can be launched with 68 strategically located stations in early adopter areas and in key connector/destination communities. The analysis shows that, if located in the right locations, this early network can serve upwards of 10,000 vehicles. While cost is certainly a consideration, this modeling shows we don’t need one as extensive as our current network of gasoline stations. You can visit the California Fuel Cell Partnership website and look under Maps for “A California Road Map.”
If a company can save thousands of dollars in fuel cost they will have no problems doing it
To quote someone who knows the deal.
“We know how to do fuel cells and have spent a lot of money. But the infrastructure is just not coming and the fuel stack itself is still right around a hundred thousand bucks industry wide. We’ve solved everything except infrastructure and cost. Cost comes with scale. It’s a catch 22. If you don’t have the infrastructure, you’re never going to solve the cost issue”.
GM can help solve some of the cost buy working with Honda to create enough scale to make the cells cost less per unit. The more cars they build they cheaper they will become and more people will invest to make them driving cost down.
The real issue is until there is some kind of scale no one will invest in infrastructure. GM and Honda merging will drive down cost to help create scale that will drive people to invest in the infrastructure. Again it is the chicken and the egg deal here.
There is not going to be any instant massive savings here as like EV cars these cars will be expensive coming out. They will not be all that much cheaper to run either. But like the Volt it has to establish a market to create the scale needed to drive investment and drive cost down.
It comes down to another deal like electrics and it will be a slow growth market but it will be a segment that will see growth.
The keys to the infrastructure is to have enough to cover the vehicles so you do not have to drive 30 miles just to fill up. Also I expect to see improvement in the methods of filling as while it is faster than a Tesla charge it is still slower than gas and most stations have to build pressure before they can refill the next vehicle.
The reality is the cars themselves are ready to hit the road and much of the electric drive could be shared with the Volt.
I have driven the hydrogen cell and love it. But the problems mostly lie outside of the car. GM and Honda may be able to accelerate this process some but still there will be a time of slow growth.
If they could tap into a fleet market it would help as most fleet vehicles are fueled at a central point anyways and this would create more scale and more vehicles to drive the investment to provide the things needed for better and faster fueling.