According to a report from Sky News Australia, General Motors may be asked to consider selling Holden to a rival automaker if one can be tempted into taking over its South Australian manufacturing operations.
The South Australian government previously revealed it had already been approached by other international automakers interested in taking over Holden’s manufacturing facilities.
“It may be that a particular car manufacturer might want to set up here but use the equity that’s in the Holden brand to continue making cars,” South Austrailian Premier Jay Weatherill told reporters on Wednesday. “That’s obviously something that’s the property of General Motors at the moment and, presumably, they have an interest in keeping it because it has value for them.”
The state government will also inquire Holden about accepting the level of governmental assistance needed to provide its employees, as well as those in other companies, with paid leave and other types of financial support while they look for work in other industries.
“There is a very big exercise in sitting down with Holden and making sure that they accept their responsibilities to their own workforce,” Weatherill said. “Those responsibilities travel further than just simply paying a redundancy payment.”
Comments
Holden branded cars are still going to be sold in Oz after 2017, it is just the manufacturing that is going away. So what are they talking about? Sure GM could sell the assembly and manufacturing facilities that are in the country but they don’t want to totally be gone in the Australian market.
I think the South Australian Premiere doesn’t really understand what is going on. Might want to lay off the Fosters, mate.
Sure we will sell them the plant and the Zeta platform and they can try to make money on 25K-30K units sold per year.
This has to be a joke. It’s not like all the other models are imported Chevys already.
Tell him we will make him a great deal on Hummer and Saturn too.
If you think GM has clowns in their management, try the au state or federal governments, the place is like a three ring circus, stay out of the car business guys, you don’t belong their.
Cost blowout is the only thing they are good at.
Those who can do and those who can’t run for office. That is what we have here too.
What equity is going to be left in the Holden brand for GM if they are pretty much just going to sell crap GM Korea (people still associate these with Daewoos here and call them Chevwoos and Daewoos) products and Chinese Buicks? People consider these crap cars here and rank them below Kia.
If a company like Tata or Geely wants to buy the manufacturing, engineering and the brand then GM may as well take the cheque and pocket it. It will save on the environmental cleanup costs from the sites and a whole heap of redundancy packages. If the new owners want to keep building Zeta based cars for local and export consumption then even better. GM powertrain would rake in some more cash right there from selling engines and transmissions for at least a few years.
Trouble is we don’t and have never liked the imported GM Korea products badged as Holden’s. Mark my word Holden will lose 50% of their market share overnight when the Australian models are pulled from the market place. GM will be better off selling Holden as an ongoing concern for the Australian market to an interested party and re-introduce Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick to our market and start rebuilding their own brand. That way we Aussies can have our cake and eat it too. BTW if Holden is sold to another car company, they won’t be making Zeta’s as the platform is the intellectual property of GM. Think small and medium sized cars and small SUVs utilising the platform of their new parent company. It would be a win-win situation. If you follow Holden on Facebook you can see there is growing anger from hundreds of thousands of fans towards the company and it is only doing GMs current plans nothing but harm in the long term. Please GM, sell Holden so they can keep manufacturing in Australia.
Thankyou Zero Five. The more people that get behind this the better however futile it seems at the moment. However I disagree with Holden not being able to use Zeta and them building small, medium and SUV cars. GM are planning to discontinue using Zeta in a few years anyway when Camaro moves to the Alpha platform. They may as well sell or lease the rights to the platform which Holden developed off to the new owners. Jaguar still use the Ford DEW98 RWD platform in the XF even though they are now owned by Tata. So it is not inconceivable that such an arrangement could be made with GM for an interim period. The types of vehicles that Holden builds off Zeta is what they are currently good at engineering and building and it is best to stick to these types of vehicles in the interim and start building an export base to establish themselves as a niche semi-premium brand targeted in select markets. There are already plenty of brands making small and medium cars and SUVS and they would be trying to compete in a crowded marketplace as a small manufacturer. They can expand there product portfolio once they establish themselves (remember that Torana concept from 2005 😉 ).
As a Zeta owner (SS-V Ute) I can only hope so! We can’t allow GM to desecrate this once great brand any longer. Don’t get me wrong, I love GM cars, my folks have a SRI-V Cruze hatch, dad had an Aussie built ’56 Chev, I’m restoring an original RHD Tarrytown built ’63 Impala sport sedan, and between him and I we’ve had dozens of classic Holdens. I just can’t sit idly by and watch the death of a company near and dear to mine and many other Aussie’s hearts.
Ah, OZ now has Pontiac Syndrome.
This is where everything is doomed because they stopped selling and building one model that was at 30K units last year. Note at the same time while it was number 3 in the market the best seller was imported.
The reality is no one is going to buy the old Zeta and the Engineering staff will be integrated back into GM where many of them came from. Note that they were not all Australian and all the work was not just done down under. GM has over the years sent many people down under from around the world to work there and then they move on. There is nothing they did there that can not be done anywhere else.
If GM sends in a Alpha based car built in Michigan that is better in performance and MPG at the same or better price generally most will be pleases. Who knows you may just get another Monaro coupe based on the next gen Camaro.
I know losing jobs is tough and it is a bit of a kick to the pride to lose the only car that was built in country as an Australian brand car but GM held out as long as they could. The scale of economics has caught up and that is just the reality we have all faced from one time or another.
GM will remain in Australia with Holden named cars. They will get the same cars as the rest of the world gets from GM as the Cruze built here in America is no different than anyone else’s built elsewhere. There is a good chance a RWD may be brought back to the market that will be a more up dated and better car now that GM has money to do it right vs. a mild make over. and Holden will remain number 2 in the market to Toyota.
The last thing anyone like TATA would want to do is buy a old made over platform when they could just and will do it them selves. They have the people who can and will do it. As for down under the old 2005 Torana may just be coming back better and sooner than you think.
Note the Holden were back commercial and the cars in the photo represent some of the platforms GM has been working on. As we have seen one even showed up as a Opel for guess what 2017 and at this point they have not said it was FWD because it could very well represent a new RWD/AWD.
Let the rest of the plans unfold before you plunge the knife in your chest and see just what is going to happen as what you have now is not what you will have in the near future. They may not be building the 30K cars there but they will be selling some very new compelling models.
The problem is GM can sell more cars in California than they ever will sell down under and it is hard to tool up just to build so few models for just over 100.000 cars anymore. Sad but true.
We heard all the doom and gloom on how GM market share was going to plunge on 3 times the number Holden sold but today they have gained market share and gone on like Pontiac did not exist. I was and still am a Pontiac owner but I have to recognize the reality of todays markets and economics. Times have changed and if companies do not change with them they will fail. This is what got GM into so much trouble to start with.
@Michael “Jaguar still use the Ford DEW98 RWD platform in the XF even though they are now owned by Tata. So it is not inconceivable that such an arrangement could be made with GM for an interim period.”
Do you remember what GM did to Saab? They refused the Chinese to use their licensed parts to continue building cars. Those parts were Saab’s in the first place, but the rights got transferred to GM when they bought the company.
Scott, we won’t be getting Alpha and we don’t want an imported Monaro. We will be getting shoddy Korean built Chevrolets that the punters here already hate. If thats the case, and GM can’t sell Holden, kill it and call it Chevrolet but don’t expect a sales rush. Aussies can hold a grudge and we won’t be letting GM get away with this for a long time. Consider the knives out!
Zero it is time to get a grip. Holden really has been two cars the Commodore and Caprice for a while now and the rest of the line has been Chevy so there is nothing really new there The Cruze that you say everyone hates nearly out sold the Commodore last year and may very well do so this year.
Soddy Built? We have some of the same Korean built cars here too and they are no better or worse than any other GM product including the Commodore. Generally they are the smaller lower priced cars so you can not expect the top level leather trim. The Buick Encore here is a Korean car and it is very well built and very comfortable but then again it is not entry level either.
GM cars are the same less some special tuning or packaging for each market. The Cruze built here in Ohio is not better or worse than the Holden Cruze. It is a volume FWD car and that is what you get. It is one of the best in the segment and others from Nissan and Toyota are not even that good.
How do you know you will not get an Alpha? And if a new Monaro is based on the sixth Gen Camaro people will not care where it is from. God know I have enough customers now importing Camaro parts down under and paying a big price for them.
We went through the same thing here with Pontiac too. But you really have to look at what you have. You are build a car who has lost market share for a while now. It may get a bounce this year but it will not last long as it really was just a mild refresh of a old heavy outdated car. Saving 60-75 pounds is good but not enough. Just look at what the CTS Cadillac can do and that is only a hint a what the Alpha can do.
Holden like Pontiac died long before anyone started to morn. Pontiac really died when they lost their engines. They became cooler Chevys accept for the Fiero which was a fully Pontiac built, powered and sold car.
Holden died a while back but so few people noticed. The Monaro went away and you were left with a LWB and SWB sedan only with a very limited Ute that is now being outsold by a truck.
I understand your feelings as a Pontiac owner but I also am playing with reality that GM is not going to keep an old car in production to sell 25K-30K units a year.
I would be more upset that GM is not going to bring in the new Cruze that could sell 40K units or more in the future with the second gen model.
The fact is global economic are bigger than the Australian auto market anymore. No one will work for what they can pay someone overseas and if they did pay it no one there will pay the price for the car to cover it.
I am not sure what discount chain you have but here we have Walmart. As I have said everyone here wants to be a millionaire but they all want to shop at Walmart and a economy just does not work that way.
You can hold a grudge and spit in the wind all you like but it does not change the economic scale and the cost to build cars there is such little volume is not economically feasible anymore. Sure they could do it and raise the price but then few will buy them anyways.
Also the cars that were designed there could be designed anywhere. Same for anything out of Detroit, China etc. These design centers are just that centers that can be moved or replaced easily. The staffs can be moved and relocated or even connected electronically anymore to be able to be linked to work 24/7 as they do now.
Here in Detroit we have Aussies, Brits in Germany, Germans in China and down under there have been many Americans including Mark Reuss the father of the Zeta program. These platforms know no nationality anymore or a staff in a single place. The way cars have been designed has changed and is no longer tied to just one place anymore. Hell the many complain about Korea and he great selling Camaro was designed by a Korean designer. He nailed the look batter then an American.
Take a look at the top ten cars in Australia and just look where most of them are built. You are faced with the same thing we have seen here were people that don’t care where a car is built anymore. Your number one car the Mazda 3 is imported in great numbers and has been number one for a few years now. Price and quality is what creates volume and price is the 800 pound Koala in the room here.
Like Pontiac if you wanted to save Holden you needed to start a long time ago not last year to this year. I expect with the new models Holden will see in the next 5 years they will gain market share just as GM here has. There is a lot of new models coming and once people see the whole picture the marker will respond if priced properly.
I really wish it were different for you but reality suck and you are going to be in the minority in the long run here.
In the words of Mick Dundee Aye You Call That A Knife? LOL!
GM should sell the name, it would actually beneficial to them to do so. Right now they are seen as the evil american corporation to greedy to believe in Holden. The imported Holdens are associated with cheap and nasty korean crap, plus the rumours of chinese vehicles being badged as holden arent exactly helping the cause. I say sell holden, show Aussies that GM understands our pain, launch Chevrolet here to sell the imported Holdens. The chevy brand might get a few non car loving people to buy the cars thinking they are american and not korean or chinese. Im a big supporter of Tata buying Holden. tata ony have the budget Tata motors and the two prestige brands in Jag and Land Rover, nothing to take on Toyota or even VW and Opel price points. Holden has always taken on those price points with Commodore and Caprice (will have to bring back the Statesman or Kingswood name). Holden could utilise Jag and LR powertrains and platforms to kick start an Aussie resurgence. Everyone says it cant be done at 30k units but they are forgetting that GM limited exportation of Holdens, without GM ownership, Holden could go global and those unit numbers will be high enough. Holden could really be a global contender with Jag and LR help. As long as Dodge isnt a true global competitor (by true i mean a near full line up), Fiat could even save Holden and Holden could be beneficial to them.
Gm could also sell half of Holden. The new owners manage Australian vehicles and export them and GM can continue to sell the imports through Holden. Maybe a slow demerge from GM could take place in which GM sells its cars through Holden but each being eventually replaced by a Holden product. Then once out of the Holden line-up, Gm could then sell them under Chevrolet.
No need for an essay Scott! 😉 FYI Cruze is built in Australia and it has taken significant local engineering by Holden to get the damn thing competitive. It is now a great little car, but by far and away nowhere near the leaders of the small car segment. And that is the point. The rebadged imported Chevy line that Holden sells are good cars, but they aren’t great cars. Commodore, Caprice and Ute are fantastic cars, the best Holden have ever sold and if you think the weight saving made from VE to VF is the only thing Holden have achieved with Zeta you had better think again. Drove a VF after my holiday to the states and comparing it with the ‘old outdated’ in your words Zeta 1 architecture is similar to comparing chalk and cheese. Go and take a drive in a G8 back to back with a SS and you will instantly see and feel what I mean. Given the chance, GM and Holden could have turned this situation around, building global architectures and giving them a local twist but GM lost faith and might I add balls. Holden began failing because of three critical things. No. 1 a stupid enterprise bargaining agreement signed off by management that lead to unsustainable wages. No. 2 losing 30,000 US exports p.a. when the factory was geared up for export production. Contrary to popular belief, the Pontiac export program was extremely profitable to Holden and ensured the factory was running to capacity, thus increasing economies of scale. GM took too long to reintroduce Commodore to America and lost a lot of momentum and goodwill the G8 had created. Pulling out of the Middle East didn’t help either and was so short-sighted, so there went another 10,000 units p.a. Despite the record high Aussie dollar Toyota in Australia have stuck fat and continued to export. Surprise surprise, they are the last man standing and are in a much healthier position, despite the fact they sell f all Camrys and Aurions domestically and they have the sex appeal of a refrigerator. No. 3 The importation of GM Korean cars has eroded so much goodwill and respect for the Holden brand in Australia it has lead to Holden’s lowest sales ever. It is no coincidence and these cars have tarnished the brand irreversibly. Cut your losses GM and see if we can prove you wrong and turn Holden around. It still isn’t to late yet, particularly with other companies keen to invest in the company.
Well I have been friends with people involved with the Camaro and the RWD GM program. I in no way am saying the Zeta is a bad car and the VF is the best version yet but the problem is the car has hit the wall for much more development.
Sure they could rip it apart and make more major changes but the cost of doing so is too expensive to do. This is why the hard points of the VF did not change and why it still used the same unibody. They did change the door, hood and trunk material but to change more in the unibody would have drive cost beyond what GM would invest.
Now on the other hand they have the Alpha and coming Omega that have the major changes to pick up where the Zeta could not go. The weight savings is great and very important anymore as if the weight does not come down that would be the end of these cars.
Also the Zeta was done at a time GM had limits on what they could spend on development and they had to take the cheaper way out in some areas. Today they can spend more to get it right the first time as represented by the CTS.
The VF here is getting great reviews and is called the off spring of a Camaro and BMW. On the other hand the CTS is being called a better car than a BMW.
Now if they do give you the Alpha it will always have a local twist as it will be tunes and set for the market even if it is built in Michigan.
People here even the diehard buy American people had little issue with the Holden imports. Hell we sent you the engines and I believe the transmission for them anyways so they were a good partnership car.
The Camry is an appliance an always has been but the generally public loves them. They are affordable and reliable and these are two universal keys to sales for most cars anymore no matter where you live. The love affair of the car has died in most countries and too many just see them as just a way to get from point a to b.
But back to the Holden the best way to describe this is the VE is the 2.0 verison and the VF is a 2.1. Defenatly an improvement but the new Alpha would be a 3.2 version of the model. I hope you see them as once you have driven one you will really understand. Even the small ATS with AWD and 4 cylinder turbo is a blast to drive and I can only wait to try the Alpha with the V8 installed.
GM did not lose much with the loss of the G8 as in the last year the dealers could not move them. They were sitting on large inventories and a GT was stickered at $32,000 was discounted down for me to $23,000. I still kick myself for not buying. The dealers pretty much sold off the last year cheap here. The market for this car is limited and even 30,000 units is a drop in the bucket here. Most models are not really seen as doing great unless they are selling the least 100,000 units of just one model. To be honest we sold enough Camaro’s here this year to make up 3/4 of all Holden sales and it is a niche model.
Being a larger market has it’s advantages but there are still many things that can limit models too so it is not all green grass here.
GM is not going to sell Holden and they only have one platform. You tend to think Holden as its own company but Holden is just a part of GM and would have died a little while ago with out GM. Learn from Pontiac and see there are many things similar and the only thing propping up Holden is they have their own country and are mostly Chevy based than Pontiac was.
You and other see Holden as a major part of the global market and the truth is they are just a blip. I do not mean this as a insult but the fact is their volume is and has been small on the global scale and they have to be global to live. With no joint Chevy models they would have died just as my Pontiac.
To really understand this you have to look at this globally not locally. The way the automotive market has operates has changed and the smaller companies division have to find a global connection or die just as Pontiac. Buick lived as it found a global market Pontiac died because it had no Global market and it is that simple. If Holden had none of the Chevy car they have now they would already be gone.
We here in America have had to learn the new ways of globalization of the auto market too. We have not shared in this as Asia and Europe has. Because of it we have lost some old names like Plymouth, Pontiac, Mercury and others and I find it sad. We are in danger of loosing Lincoln here too if they do not find a real foot hold in a global market and learn how to compete with the Euro makers.
But on the other hand with the globalization we now are getting some of the better things and better cars we lacked before. Before the Cobalt that was the car the Cruze replaced was a pile of junk. Today we have a model that was developed for the global market with more Euro like handing even if it is not a performance car.
I think you will see as time goes on you will find a lot of the better new models GM has coming finding a Holden name on them. You also may be surprised to find they will not all be Chevy based either. The Holden spot shows a concept that is more Opel/ Buick based so there is a chance you may get a Holden version of their higher end models too.
I would just take a deep breath and just let them show what they are going before you panic. Like I said many said GM would fail without Pontiac, Saturn and Holden but today we have better cars, higher profits and more market share. As much as I love Pontiac GM is a much better and stronger company as it is today. Sometimes less is better.
Thankyou for your contribution to this debate Scott as you seem to have a fair bit of inside info. The scenario that I have in mind and I’m sure others do, that is Holden get bought out by Tata, Geely or whoever, gets integrated into their operations over time and become a niche semi-premium brand in most markets selling 2-300,000 units a year globaly. You are pretty much saying that this scenario would not work due to the way global automotive production is changing, favouring the scales of larger producers. If this is the case then I guess brands such as Volvo, Alfa, Jaguar and plenty of others that produce similar numbers or less have a pretty bleak future then.
Why would a company like Tata or Geely want to buy Holden and turn it into a semi-premium brand? If you were looking for a car in this category would you rather buy some upstart Chinese or Indian brand or be introducted to a 160 year old Australian brand that has been designing, engineering and building cars for 60+ years with a rich and proud history and heritage in racing, performance cars, muscle cars etc. As the SA premier said there is equity in the Holden brand.
In regards to your comments about Holden engineering. Yes Holden is integrated into GMs operations and GM engineers worldwide would have been involved in Zeta, kinda like how Holden engineers were sent to Detroit to work on the HFV6. This wouldn’t stop Holden from retaining engineers as part of any deal (I would think most if not nearly half would be Australians that would want to stay with Holden), hiring new ones or using those from its new owners. After all GM don’t own their engineers ass`, they simply employ them. lol. In the organisation I work in we have a very large engineering base that covers a number of specialised and niche fields. You know what we do when we can’t find them locally or we want to ensure we get the best selection of candidates? We cast the net interstate and overseas. I don’t think this would be too difficult to do for a car company. As I have said continuing production of Zeta cars would be just to tie the company over and keep the factory ticking along until Holden is able to shift over to newer platforms, as former Ford owned brands like Jaguar and Volvo have done.
Zeta maybe old but it is a lot more up to date platform for its time than what the old V platform was when Holden was exporting this in the tens of thousands a year to the middle east. As others have stated these Middle East exports were a key part of Holden’s success in the early part of last decade back when Peter Hanenberger was in charge. It seems things started to go down hill when he left.
I could go on and on and we can debate forever as to why Holden is in the situation it is in now. I am familiar with other ‘insider’ type accounts on this issue but from the Holden side of the fence. I have also been closely following news and development at Holden and GM for some time and I’m not convinced that Holden is in this situation for the reasons GM as stated. I believe it is mostly been driven by GMs own problems that started around the middle of last decade and also sadly led to Pontiacs demise as well. The lack of export opportunities for Holden being the number one key issue.
I think we can just agree that we disagree. I think we may get closer to the truth when John Crennan finally releases his book that he said he’d bring out last year. He’s probably busy making changes to it given all that is going on. Either that or he’s been threatened with legal action from GM/Holden. lol.
Whatever happens in the future man happens. I’ll just hold on to my V8 Commodore until it falls apart, I need another type of car or I can’t afford to fuel the damn beast. lol.
Hope you have a great weekend everyone. Go out and enjoy your cars.
Here is the deal. Holden is not on the same scale globally as Volvo, Jaguar and Alfa.
To be honest Volvo is struggling with new Chinese owners. Jaguar has been struggling for a long time even under Ford. Their future is not certain even with Tata money but they are giving their best. Alfa is part of the much larger Fiat and they are financially strapped. They wanted Chrysler just for the money the trucks and Jeep provide as this is supporting income.
Tata has a growing presents but they do not need to buy Holden if they want to come in and if they did they would not keep the Zeta long. Geeley, now that one is funny. You think people hate Korean car just wait till you get a Geeley. Even in China it is not in the top ten in sales as the Chinese hate their own cars.
Niche fields only work on a global scale. You sell 30K units here there and else where and then it works. The Mazda Miata is a perfect example of balance of a small niche car that has limited sales in each market. Same for the Mini. You do not have that with the Holden.
The thing is this the VF was given a few extra years with the refresh but it is still 500 pounds too heavy for the global market. The time for heavy cars is coming to an end. Hell even Benz has resorted to a FWD car now looking to make things smaller and lighter. Many said hell would freeze first but Benz beat them to the punch.
Take away GM and just what does Holden have? It is a name and a couple plants. Remove all the Chevy product and you have one sedan owned by GM that is in the last years of it’s life. Sure you may still sell some down under but you would lose the sales of many of the Zeta built and sold else where. Keep in mind the Camaro is only around because of the VE but the VE was also supported by the Camaro sales as it help recouped any investment in the platform.
Sales have dropped from 97K to 30K last year. Even with the new VF GM dropped the prices on the Calais V and the SS models by as much as $10K from what I have read. These are signs of a model that needs replaced as while updated nicely it is still an old model.
The real issue is you are like myself and love these kinds of cars but the world auto markets have changed and are changing fast. We are no longer the center customer for the market. Niche markets are what we are but even then they can not do them just buy single markets anymore and have to have global support. The matter anymore for all automakers is volume no matter if you sell high volume in one market or high volume collectively in many markets.
GM is not going to sell you South Africa sales of the Lumina. GM is not going to sell the middle east Sales of the Lumina. GM is not going to give you the SS market here in the states
Hell this Australian pride thing is not what you make it out to be as the VE was the first full Holden car as the cars before it were all based on the Opel that Holden adapted to their own use. So in reality the first full Commodore done down under was done just 11 years ago.
As for the GM engineers most of them are people who have been with GM so long they will not leave as they can put in a little more time and retire in many cases. The others can do what they want as they were all just a part of a larger group.
The fact is in this world we have not seen the end of some car makes, models and brands as more will die or be merged into more global lines.
Holden for the VF could not afford to do their own engines do you keep importing the V8 engines or do you buy a Mitsubishi and try to plug it in even if GM sells the old platform to someone crazy enough to buy it?
I know a bit about the auto industry and even I can not cover all that is involved here. So before you make flippant remarks about GM selling and Holden setting sail on their own you had better look around and just see what all is involved here and how already larger brands are merging platforms to make niche models as they can not do it on their own. Example Mazda and Alfa are now going to share the same platform on the Miata. BMW and Toyota will share a platform on a sports car. GM and Ford have been doing transmissions together. When the largest players in the industry are sharing development cost is a signal of how expensive it is anymore and why they have to do things on a global scale.
I wish it were as easy as you think but when you gather all the facts it is hard to justify here.
Well I will be bold here and this is what you will see.
Holden will not be sold.
Holden sales will march on and they will remain number two in the market.
Holden will see more and different models than just the Chevy models in the higher priced segments.
Holden’s while based on other GM product will still be tuned and adapted to the market
Fewer and fewer Korean cars will be imported as GM is moving out of Korea.
No one will buy Holden and if it were closed down and out up for sale it would end up just as Saturn as it is has too many ties to GM to separate to be of any value to anyone.
I feel for you as I have been through the same feelings with Pontiac but when you take a step back it all comes together. This is not something you can review with emotion but just plain dollars and cents.
Take from someone who already has seen this play out. Things are not doomed and the worst thing that will happen is the folks at the VF plant will lose their jobs. If they can broker a deal GM could bring in another model but that fate is in their hands and the suppliers product cost. If they can find a way to make cars cheaper they will get a new model. the plants here live or die on how affordable they can produce cars and that is what Is going on now globally with all MFG.
Holden like my Pontiac is just a small part of a larger agency. While small they still can not afford to not be part of the larger system any longer. Divisions doing their own thing are now a thing of the past no matter where you are. The Buick, Opel match up is a great example where neither along could do what they are doing anymore.
As one automotive leader has said everyone needs a dance partner internally or externally.
Holden has been a fraud for 65 years
Hopelessly under the thumb of blinkered us masters who want short term easy profits. Look at the cheap engineering , the sslack designs. Crude engines and basic suspensions. Rubbish gearboxs. Maybe the VF is good, maybe 15 years late.
Let’s hope Tata get the factory and people and get it cracking like they did with Jaguar etc
Vf ss commodore $45.000 vf clubsport r8 $65.000 vf gts $90.000 the equivalent large four door performance sedan in JAGUAR. BMW. AUDI. MERCEDES ect $165.000 to $250.000 . TATA could make a nice business selling budget performance commodores statesman’s and maybe vf monaros around the world. The holden commodore is known as a performance car in many countries through its many wins at Bathurst televised to over hundred countries every year, competed in the European and world touring championship in the 1980s with wins lap records, and winner of the prestige’s kings cup at the spar 24 hour, and won the 2013 NASCAR championship these cars are known in Europe and the yanks love them. With a smart and motivated export program with out the restraints of general motors TATA are on a winner , let’s face it the commodore is the best car GM make any where in the world , and with a little refinement they would sell every where. There is a lot of evolution left in the zeta platform look at Jaguar with there old ford platform. Once GM stop making holdens in Australia there market share will go in to free fall that’s a fact, they should sell so the doors of holden can stay open the dolor is on its way down, soon will be a good time for exports then see how cheap the million cars we will be importing every year cost then. SAVE AUSTRALIAN MANUFACTURING
” I bleed red, I will always have a Holden in my driveway and I will continue to buy new cars ”
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Don’t get too excited GM, two can play the word spin game.
My 1969 HT 350 already has a place in my shed and my current HSV R8 (2013) model will be put into the shed also once it’s finished as my day to day car.
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My 2012 Cruze SRI -V (2012) is a real disappointment in terms of quality ( 4-5 recalls so far, trim falling apart and the exterior mirrors showing resin breakdown due to an inability to cope with Australian summers). The car is so bad that my wife and kids still prefer to drive the 2004 Mazda SP 23 as do I.
The Cruze is rubbish as, although assembled in Australia, the parts are GM Global parts oaf global quality whereas my Commodore has mirrors,interior , rubbers etc made locally.
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Unlike America (I was there in Dec/Jan ) the Aust market is dominated by Japanese brands and Mazda have a stong foothold. I was disappointed at the US made vehicles, F Series truck @ no. 1′ GMC Truck at No. 2′ then Toyota with the Camry .
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I really believe GM seriously misread the Australian psyche and that of the true Holden fan. Continuing to put the Holden Brand onto an imported range of cars will anger and alienate the true Holden supporters and bring no real value to the average dim witted non- car person who happily buys a car on price and glitzy trinkets with no real idea of FWD, RWD, L 4 , East /West configuration etc.
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I’ve owned a lot of Holden’s, HT, VK, VK, VN, VP, VR, VS, VT, VX, VZ, WM (Caprice) ‘ Cruze hatchback and E3 R8 but I doubt my next car and all future cars will be a GM IMPORT.
Compared to the Japanese and Euro imports, the current GM IMPORTS are of inferior quality, dated technology, overpriced and underpowered.
Watch the crowds at Clipsal and Bathurst start to fall as fans walk away in droves.
I understand the economics of ceasing production in Australia, but don’t presume my continued loyalty nor insult my intelligence by trying to pass off an imported GM product as a Holden.
If you really think the GM product can compete on value and features, then I strongly recommend you let the Holden name retire gracefully and with dignity.
But it won’t as GM know their brand and reputation is going to be shot in Australia for the next decade or so until our memories fade .
Profits are up but market share is now a little below 18 percent. Share has dropped with each brand.closure starting with Olds. Pontiac was GM for me; however, you are right about the brand no longer making dollars and cents.
The sad joke is that.GM will still make more profit in AU even if sales dip once these plants and workers are disposed of.
I still think Holden can maintain the number two spot, not that import volume really matters.
Great discussion, Scott I understand what you are saying I agree that the GFC and the almost completely open market introduced by successive governments in Australia, effectively killed Holden local manufacturing a number of years ago. Globalisation of the auto industry is entering the end game and I think many more brands will tumble.
I agree with 05 about the future of the Holden brand, it has suffered a lot of damage over the last 15-20 years based on the quality of the imported models trying to offer something in all segments. The local models are what is still selling (albeit with not enough worldwide scale). The Cruze was going nowhere until it started to be built alongside the Commodore in Adelaide. I thought it might be just people’s prejudice but having driven both, the Australian Cruze is a much better car than the original imported models, (little things like how the doors shut count).
When compared to Fords imported models which have been marketed alongside the local Falcon, GM Holden’s imports have been junk. Ford will survive the end of local manufacture here they have a solid reputation for the quality of their imported models. But our market will take a lot of convincing that an imported Holden is anything other than a low end junk car.
A switch to US cars and brands may not work either, opinions set in the public mind by many of our journalists seems to be that US cars are no good compared to Euros and that cheap cars must be made in asia to be cost effective. Mid to upper end cars MUST be Euro or Japanese. (No significant volumes of any US models here). The direct Australian experience of the big GM US brands mostly died out at the end of the 60’s due to the dominance of Holden in the stable.
There will be a big hit on GM’s market share in Australia, which is probably why they took so long to make the decision in head office. Imagine this GM-H which held over 50% market share in Oz in the 1960’s, will probably not even rate in the top 10 once the local models go in 2017. It is going to be an up hill battle, I think they should sell the brand or kill it.
I would love to be able to buy a new Camaro or Corvette in Australia but I would rather it be branded Chevrolet than Holden. In the long run this market is no longer a significant one in the world scale so GM can probably walk away if it doesn’t work, but that will be a sad day. Even sadder will be the demise of a once Australian company that was good enough for GM to consider worthy of taking over and developing and a brand that most of us here grew up with.
Personally I’ve owned or own 8 used and 5 new Holden’s since I started my automotive life. I will probably keep my Commodore VF SS-V Sportwagon going as long as I can (US is missing out on that one it is great when compared to a SUV) or buy a run out model in 2 years and keep that.
If I need another new car after that I doubt I will buy or lease another GM product, Mr Benz here I come.
It all depends on the contract. The Australian goverment did pay GM a lot of money, HOPEFULLY, with some “conditions”. So stupid man can’t be to give money to corporations and then they leave. Also, the goverment can give GM a hard time. They have paid, and GM have to pay back somehow.
The Australians make a bloody good product, we in New Zealand would be devistated when Holden and Ford close!