2014 Pontiac GTO “The Judge” Converted Camaro: eBay Find
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Although Pontiac hasn’t had any offerings in a few years, that doesn’t mean that the loyal aftermarket should ignore the fanbase. As you should probably know, SEMA is the best place on earth to display custom cars, with insurmountable amounts of money invested into them. Under that logic, it only makes sense that the 2014 Pontiac GTO “The Judge” Camaro was featured there.
A company by the name of Trans Am Depot has performed one of these incredibly thorough conversions, adding flair all over the place, from performance parts, to paintjobs, to new seats. The particular specimen for sale right now started off as a Camaro SS at about $35,000. After all of the modifications were complete (totaling at $44,985), the price for the reborn GTO finished at $79,985, according to the listing.
Sure, you could buy a loaded C7 Stingray at that price (if you like waiting), but it’s not quite as unique as a custom-built Chevy/Pontiac, long after the brand is gone. So, if you had the money (or even if you already do), would you like to see this SEMA-worthy frankencamaro in your driveway? Let us know.
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Just curious, but what could Pontiac offer that Chevy can’t, besides an arrowhead? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or rude. I genuinely am curious what you think that the arrowhead can provide that GM would not be able to offer through the bowtie. I miss Pontiac too, but I have done some deep soul searching since that fateful day in 2009, and have come to the realization that what I miss most about Pontiac were their engines and the innovations they brought in. My ’72 GP is a torque monster and greatly unique from its counterpart in the Monte Carlo. My ’01 GP has been a great car as well, but the equivalent MC could have served me just as well.
Considering the realities of increased market saturation from Japanese, European and Korean automakers, what could GM make Pontiac do that they can’t do with Chevrolet? Also, what can they do with a Pontiac brand that will NOT hurt Chevrolet?
EDIT: This is in reply to EvanR’s comment (Dec. 11th @ 2:38pm) but the reply function did not work as I intended.
You have a very good point in your case! Yes Pontiac was great back then. I want to see GM do what they did with Pontiac back then. Different engines, special design “flare & uniqueness!” A lot of people I know prefer the older Pontiac’s over the Chevrolet’s. . (It sounds like you do too).
They could do the same thing with Chevrolet, but at the end of the day it’s the Poncho that really makes the difference. It could turn out to be a failure, I honestly don’t know. Personally, I would love a redesigned 97-08 Grand Prix Sedan and/or Coupe (On the Sigma ll Platform RWD/AWD) in my garage.
Chevrolet is very innovative! Chevy has one of the most refreshed lineups I’ve seen over any other comparable brand (i.e. Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai). As of now, Buick is not at a failing stage (because they sell well). Buick is in a stage where there isn’t much blood pumping through their veins. Most of their models are getting to the point where they are long-in-the-tooth. It doesn’t look like they will pump out new products. But I am sure GM has a plan for Buick, they just haven’t gotten to it yet with all of the new chaos..
I’m not an auto executive? Don’t play one on TV or on internet blogs.
Fact is Pontiac was a more popular brand that sold many more vehicles here than Buick did in the years leading up to the BK. It’s not my opinion, it’s fact. Was either brand “making money” based solely on their business here in NA before the crash? I don’t pretend to know, but I would doubt it.
Others disagree, but I happen think that if Pontiac had survived and Buick was eliminated here and only sold in China, that Pontiac with a new focus on affordable, exciting, fun-to-drive vehicles, would be selling better (and making money) here stateside right now, than Buick is currently.
Look the problem with you Pontiac people is that your making a case for cars that cost the same! A firebird and camaro were the same price! Double the production and engineering for the same return on the companies money!
What is a smarter approach, is to offer main line cars for chevy with similar products built off the same platform for buick and cadillac for a sharp increase in price to justify the extra cost of the extra cost of designing 2 or 3 different types of cars per platform!
For the people that think Pontiac got screwed, think about hummer for a moment, the hummer division sold every truck they made at a huge profit, the people that bought them loved them!
If a brand deserved to stay it was hummer, it offered something no other gm division did or could!
You do not listen. You keep on stating that if Pontiac came back it would be the same thing as Chevrolet! I will say this one more time: If Pontiac came back, they can build vehicles that are better than Chevrolet and not the same. Don’t look at it like it will be the same exact car with the same price. . .
Hummer. Where do I even start? Chevrolet and GMC are good replacements! With the ZR2 Silverado/Colorado coming, I think that this is an even better reason why Hummer shouldn’t come back. GM can rework GMC to add an offroad vehicle too!
If any two brands that deserved to live (Saturn, Pontiac & Hummer) it should have been Saturn and Pontiac. Saturn because it could have done what Buick is doing right now with a much better image (not the old grandpa car that they are still trying to fight). Pontiac because well, they have a true background of muscle cars and spirit. They can get away with exotic design, because the people who bought them want that!
When GM filed for Chapter 11, they should have sold/”phased out” Buick, Hummer and Saab. Keeping Chevrolet, Saturn, Pontiac and Cadillac. They have an American Brand, European Understated Luxury, Sports/Muscle Brand and a High-End Luxury Brand. Makes sense to me. . .
Well, let’s ask an Auto executive… Former GM exec, Susan Docherty responded to the Buick vs. Pontiac issue 4 years ago.
http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/45865-buick-is-profitable%3B-pontiac-was-not-susan-docherty-vice-president-us-sales-general-motors-co-detroit/
From the article, Buick survived based on profitability of its products and independently, Pontiac was shut down based on the lack of profitability of its products.
If you read some of the comments on that post, they are all very considerably true! GM didn’t try at all to fix Pontiac, they rebadged most of the vehicles. They didn’t even bother redesigning them either! The G6 and Torrent needed major interior work. The Torrent GXP was sleek and sexy and the 2010 G6 GT was also very handsome too. The exteriors could have had some work done: LED Fog lamps, HID Headlamps, Clear LED Tail lamps, Dual Exhaust, New Rims, Flush Handles, Twin-Spoke Side Mirrors, Enhanced Muscular Lines, Chrome/Piano Black Trim and HiPer Struts.
The G6 and Torrent had a nice interior canvas to work with. They just needed better materials and options…
So what cars are they going to make better?
Camaro = firebird you think they can make a better one? And ask for more money like a ATS? Nope
Impala = grand pri you think Pontiac can command the same prices as a Buick and cadillac version? Nope
Cruze = G5 how much more are you going to be able to ask for there the same dam car
chevy SS = G8 same deal! On and on and on
As for chevy and gmc doing what hummer had in the 4×4 market, let me ask you are you going to pay 60k for a chevy or gmc 4×4?
Nope!
The fact is you don’t get it! Pontiac can’t exist and demand more of a price tag compared to their chevy counter part
No Camaro, Impala, Cruze or SS comparable. . .
Grand Am: Compact Sedan/Coupe/Convertible on Alpha (Estimated Price Around $28K)
-Redesigned 2010 G6
Grand Prix: Mid-Size Sedan/Coupe on Sigma ll (Estimated Price Around $33K)
-Redesigned 1997-2008 Grand Prix
Bonneville: Large Sedan/Wagon on Extended Alpha (Estimated Price Around $37K)
-Redesigned 2005 Bonneville
Pontiac would sell in low volume at higher starting prices than Chevrolet and similar to Buick. Now you say it would take sales away from Buick, but I don’t think a person who is looking to buy a quiet, plush-riding, efficient car (Buick) will want to buy a loud, in your face, exotic, fun to drive vehicle from Pontiac.
2.5L I4 (VVT, SIDI & iVVL) 215HP and 205LB-FT
3.0L V6 (VVT, SIDI, AFM & iVVL) 270HP and 250LB-FT
2.8L S/C V6 (VVT, SIDI, AFM & iVVL) 340HP and 370LB-FT
4.5L TDI V8 310HP and 520LB-FT
5.3L Twin-Turbo V8 (VVT, SIDI, AFM & iVVL) 590HP and 610LB-FT
For the last time you hard headed scumbag! What is the Avg transaction price for a Pontiac?
Avg transaction price for a hummer?
Now which one of those brands are going to be more profitable?
Ding ding ding I think we have a winner!
S D F!!!
You make it so hard to refrain from using bad language, but I am going to be the better person here and not stoop to your level.
Your comment: “As for chevy and gmc doing what hummer had in the 4×4 market, let me ask you are you going to pay 60k for a chevy or gmc 4×4?”
That is really dumb to say considering, well that people already pay +$65K for a new Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon. Chevrolet and GMC can make exactly what Hummer already made. GM kept GMC because they realized that people would actually pay a premium price over Chevrolet. GMC is General Motors Truck Company. GMC is already starting to do what Hummer was doing!
Yet, you are still comparing old Pontiac to old Hummer. Of course Hummer was more profitable than Pontiac back then. But in this day and age, it would be stupid to bring another truck brand (that gets terrible gas mileage) into GM (who already has Chevrolet/GMC for that). Profit is not always about making bigger and better vehicles. It’s about making smaller, more efficient, fun to drive cars that people will actually buy!
Let’s face the facts: GM will most likely never bring a brand back from the “phased out” stage. I don’t know why GM didn’t get rid of Buick, Hummer and Saab in the first place. Chevrolet, Saturn, GMC, Pontiac and Cadillac would have made a lot more sense. Because Buick is still fighting the “old grandpa car” scheme today. Saturn was a hip, attractive european car that young buyers wanted and with a little work, their vehicles would have became even more of a success. GMC is a huge money maker for GM. Chevrolet is basically the brand that started it all and covers nearly every segment. Pontiac attracts people who want an muscular car that is exotic. Cadillac attracts people who simply have a taste for the high end of things.
Also, lets stop this conversation. What a huge waste of my time talking to a person who is a very arrogant and single-minded person like you. You should be very ashamed of yourself! You come on GMA and attack anybody you can, quit being a troll and move on with your life… Truth hurts
The only truth that really hurts is the fact that Pontiac will never come back and that pisses you off to know end!
I can laugh all the way to the bank cuz if Pontiac never comes back I’m all smiles and if GM brings it back one day I’ll have a new GM division to go check out!
When you wake up tomorrow Pontiac will still be dead, and I will have a new camaro to drive!
You may be true. But you also are lying to yourself my friend…
Pontiac is not dead at all! They may not make cars now, but as long as people have one in their driveway’s Pontiac is still very much alive. . .
BTW, the Camaro isn’t something to brag about. . . . (Not the new one anyway)
Reply to EvanR comment from December 13, 2013 at 9:09 pm. (Reply still not working for me.)
All of those things you mention as possible for Pontiac would require additional investment. Investment that would need to be passed on to the customer in order to make a profit. A higher price for the Pontiacs wasn’t a viable alternative at that time. Many of the things you mentioned weren’t even provided by Cadillac at that time, so offering them on a Pontiac wasn’t possible. Also, they were already selling Pontiac’s for the same costs as Chevrolets after the necessary discounts to get them off the showrooms. To throw some sizzle and jack the price up 3 – 4k per vehicle would not move the product – especially in 2009. The only money they had available at that time required re-badging the Chevrolets. That was the problem. They wanted to invest, but didn’t have the money and couldn’t guarantee a profit based on all the previous economic indicators of the time.
What were the “many of things I’ve mentioned”?
You are talking about old GM, you need to look into the future. There are ways to make a better product. .
EvanR: To address your options from Dec 14th @ 2:41 pm:
“Grand Am: Compact Sedan/Coupe/Convertible on Alpha (Estimated Price Around $28K)
-Redesigned 2010 G6”
Chevrolet is planning to offer the next generation Camaro on the Alpha platform, so this option would have your Grand Am competing internally against the Camaro for Coupe and Convertible trims. I’m not sure what the market is for a compact four door RWD vehicle in that price range, but if GM would decide to build one, why couldn’t they go with a Chevy?
“Grand Prix: Mid-Size Sedan/Coupe on Sigma ll (Estimated Price Around $33K)
-Redesigned 1997-2008 Grand Prix”
Basically, what you’re asking for here is a no frills CTS. Why would GM want to offer this, and why couldn’t it be done as a Chevrolet?
“Bonneville: Large Sedan/Wagon on Extended Alpha (Estimated Price Around $37K)
-Redesigned 2005 Bonneville”
Two Letters: SS
Those options don’t fully answer my questions earlier about Pontiac offering something distinct that can’t be done by Chevrolet. Please keep in mind that for GM to offer Pontiac again, the logic needs to compelling, profitable, and unique. Unfortunately, for many, the last 25 years of Pontiacs did a lot to damage its public perception and brand image. Bringing back Pontiac at significantly higher starting prices than it left off with, would require a massive PR campaign. Why would they do that when Chevy’s brand is already building great momentum?
Evan,
The LED Fog lamps, HID Headlamps, Clear LED Tail lamps, and HIPerstruts were things that you mentioned that were either not developed or not available to Pontiac in 2009. I only mentioned the old GM in that context as you were talking past tense as well referring to what the old GM could/should have done to make Pontiac profitable. Those examples that you listed either were already tried or weren’t available.
Regarding looking to the future, see where I responded to you yesterday at 8:27am.