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Community Question: Cadillac Elmiraj Concept Or Cadillac Ciel Concept?

Cadillac has a knack for showing off breathtaking concept cars. Sadly, they seem to rarely be built. Case in point: the Cien, Sixteen, and Ciel concepts. But will it be the same case for the new one that was unveiled at Pebble Beach yesterday? The Elmiraj? There’s a strong possibility that this striking grand coupe will be more than just a show piece, and is very likely another precursor to an Omega platform Cadillac flagship. Though would you rather see it built over the Ciel that was revealed two years ago (pictured below)? Let us know!

Cadillac Ciel Concept - Chicago 2012 2

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Comments

  1. Hands down Elmiraj, I flat out do not like the Ciel and have voiced that many times on GMA…

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    1. There’s nothing wrong with the ciel the problem is you

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  2. Both are exceptional concepts. You can’t make me choose between the two, so I will vote ‘other’ just to avoid the trap.

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    1. Nothing like having a back bone! Standing up for yourself was something your parents must have forgot to teach you!

      Your like a onion the more that gets pulled off the more we realize your a joke

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      1. Like an onion, I’m happy you’re crying like a child.

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      2. I like both, and would love seeing both make it to production with Ciel as flagship and Elmiraj as a need for speed large super car. If the same platform were used this would be possible and would serve to establish Caddy as a major player.
        Elmiraj reminds me of an old Chevelle for some reason when topless. I love the car but it marks the offical end of Art and Science, not an evolution as has been asserted.
        I suppose Elmiraj with rounded edges would be more pleasing to the Chinese and they are the target.
        One plus is the enlarged sheild with no dated-looking crest

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  3. Don’t make me choose! I get a 1973 Eldorado vibe from the Ciel, and a 1960 Deville vibe from the ‘Elmerage, both are great vibes. I give a slight, slight edge to the ‘Mirage because the grille is wider/larger/more aggressive and it seems to bring out the “powerdome” hood styling a little better.

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  4. i would take the Elmiraj with the Ciel face…….i dont like the flat black of the elmiraj concept…..but that brushed nickel finish on the ciel is drop dead sexy…..oh and the ciel’s vertical lighting (headlights only)

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  5. I think the Ciel is much more practical although I like the Elmiraj. Anyone else notice that there does not appear to be much rear legroom in the Elmiraj even though the car is longer than the XTS. GM has been skimpy on rear seat comfort many of its newer cars, such as Malibu. I think the new CTS also has less rear seat room than the old CTS even though it has grown a few inches in length.

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    1. For you people that are constantly complaining about the room in the back seat let me ask you when’s the last time you road back there? Even a better q’s why are you even back there? You are the one that purchased the car? 99 % of the people who buy cars never ride in the back so why even worry about it?

      Your complaining about something that doesn’t even effect you!

      That malibu you speak of, I own one and to this day I have not been in the back seat! Cuz I drive it! Hint hint!

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      1. With regards to a luxury car, I don’t think functionality is your first thought. Specially when you have disposable income and children that can drive. A question Brian, do you have children, because if you do chances are you would think of their comfort when you buy a car as well as your own.

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        1. I do have kids! Twins! Their teenagers now, my kids are huge! they have no problem riding in the back!

          I think what is going on is most people look at the stat sheet they see a car has one inch less space in the back seat area and call the car a flop!

          Most kids are never big enough ever have size or room issues in the back seat!

          So again what are people really complaining about?

          The adult will likely never ride back there and the kids will never get to the point where they are the size of adults before it’s thier turn to drive!

          Car mags do this all the time and it just kills me to read or watch reviews about a car with a so called small back seat!

          I mean how much room do you need back there anyway?

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          1. What if you travel with adult friends or family? Not everyone is weighed down by kids, and people like us like to hang out and take trips.
            I would never buy a car that made my friends in the back seat miserable.
            FYI…people buy midsized for reasons other than family life.

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            1. I would never buy something for the reasons of someo else! I don’t live for other people! I have more of a back bone then that, if my friends and family don’t like my cars then they can stay at home or bring their own!

              I don’t go to the dealership and say what kind of car would make my friends and family happy!

              My wife and I buy for us!

              Maybe cars would look a lot different if more people search for cars that way!

              Stop living for other people!

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              1. I would hate to be your kid in a few years when they grow! You probably don’t care about thier space needs.

                If I were heading out with another couple for dinner or taking my parents for a ride, I do not wanna cram them into a cheap little back seat when there are so many other options out there for a larger back seat.
                I don’t think anyone, sans you, buys a Malibu because they actually desire one. People buy the car based on the GM rebate and that’s it!

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      2. I’ve only been in the back of my ’11 Malibu once. We were going to a special family event many miles away and running late. I hadn’t shaved that day and couldn’t show up looking like that so dad told me get the razor and get in back and shave and he’d drive. Needless to say I came away quite impressed with the space and comfort back there.

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        1. Yeah…that was built on epsilon 1 platform which is larger than the current breed.

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          1. Also built on Ep 1 long wheel base while the Pontiac G6 was a SWB. Now the new Bu is on SWB while the new Impala is on the LWB.

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    2. front seats move 10″ and rear move 4″

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  6. I was never a Ciel fan I am not going to lie and say I liked it. I do not know if it was just too boxy or if it was just a little more show car than what could be reality.

    the E l Miraj to me has some of the Ciel but in a more production form, I guess it makes it more real to me. It also has hints of the Sixteen to it but much more updated as the Sixteen is getting to be a little old now that it has been around for a good while.

    This is only the second of three cars they have planned and this one is about 75%-80% production like. It is close but not as close to production as I expect the third car to be. The Sedan that we will see next will be much like the XTS and will show us a car 90-95% production.

    The only real question is will we have to wait till next year for that car?

    Note this car is based on the Omega production platform. It has an engine based on production parts. and has sheet metal that could be done today with minor changes. It would have to have a new interior as the seats would never pass for production and the wheels may shrink a little as they are great styling elements but not great for un sprung weight.

    Details like door handles will change as there was already an argument with in GM on this detail.

    The thing is the production car is pretty well set and they are just leading us up to it. Like this model over the Ciel or not it is the path to the production model so you had better get used to it.

    From the general public reaction here I think this car is a step forward as the Ciel was a love or hate car. So far most have seen this one in a much more positive light.

    GM just needs to get the details right. I like that they just did not dump a LT engine in it from a Camaro or some other GM car. They may be doing as I had hoped a LT engine tuned and tailored just for Cadillac. It is details like this that will set them apart and make people want to pay more money for a car like this.

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    1. What Scott said… I know I can always rely on Scott to provide a strong statement I can agree with.., Elmirag has that refinment I think we were all hoping for in the Ciel.

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  7. Note it takes not just emotion but also wisdom to build and sell a car like this. You have to play to the heart but also earn the customers trust he is getting something special and not just a warmed over Chevy with more chrome.

    This is a car Bill Mitchell or Harley Earl would have approved of.

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  8. I’m not a 27 year old blonde married to a 55 year old doctor, so no thanks on the convertible Ciel. Elmiraj for sure, an absolute stunning coupe.

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    1. What the hell does being blonde have to do with choosing what car to pick?

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      1. You’ve been rude to enough people around here that this is only response you’re getting. More of an FYI.

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        1. Cuz I just agree with everybody so I can pc like you

          I’m the bad guy!

          We should be able to speak our mind

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          1. You don’t understand the meaning of PC and have it’s usage confused with the word polite.
            I suggest you invest in a dictionary. I also hope you read up a bit more on the topics being discussed because you never seem to know very much about any of the subjects.
            With that said, make an effort to be polite to your fellow posters. Alex and the other writers work hard and deserve respect.

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            1. So you can be disrespectful to me and say my opinions are not valid! Explain how you can disregard my opinions but you can say what ever you want to with nobody telling you to stop!

              Being pc means you keep your mouth shut so you don’t offend someone! We are tired of worring about stepping on people’s toes!

              So if I just agreed with everybody would that make you happy?

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              1. “Being pc means you keep your mouth shut so you don’t offend someone! We are tired of worring about stepping on people’s toes!”

                No, it means properly exercising tact, something you’ve not done here.

                http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tact

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                1. Tact is to be used when you don’t agree and you don’t have the back bone to speak up for yourself so you just say something nice to make sure that you don’t offend the other person!

                  Tact is just another form of lying to someone, keeping your real feelings about something hidden!

                  Didn’t your dad teach you self respect, give you a back bone to stand up for yourself? Not just agree with other people so they will like you!

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                  1. You didn’t even click on the link, you just described the opposite of tact.

                    Maybe you should get someone to read it for you if you’re having trouble.

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                    1. You are not very bright are you, the definition out of a dictionary is one thing, how and why it’s in there is a whole different matter!

                      Tact is politely telling someone I don’t agree with you but doing it in a way that is not offensive!

                      This and the term pc got started year’s ago to keep weak minded people for being turned off by people who can’t deal with someone hurting thier little feelings!

                      I was giving you the real definition of tact, not the one in the book!

                      Let’s face guys like you are thinned skinned, weak minded, and have a hard time dealing with someone who calls you out!

                      It’s no wonder why we have all these law and rules at work that HR has to enforce! So that people like you don’t get your feelings hurt!

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      2. Ritter, does that mean you’re blonde? WTH

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        1. “This and the term pc got started year’s ago to keep weak minded people for being turned off by people who can’t deal with someone hurting thier little feelings!”

          Hmm, really now?

          “1150–1200; < Latin tāctus sense of touch, equivalent to tag-, variant stem of tangere to touch + -tus suffix of v. action"

          Yeah, way back in the 1100's. Back when there wasn't any PC stuff to worry about. The wars since then haven't diminished or negated the word from any less of it's actual meaning.

          Considering you're a condescending jingoist who couldn't intimate a child, anyone can stand up you, online or in the flesh; you can't scare anyone. By extension of your character weaknesses, your attempt to assume the role of a qualified etymologist with statements like "I was giving you the real definition of tact, not the one in the book!" does even more damage to your character than I could ever do alone.

          You're simply making up your own definitions of words on the fly and declaring it an established fact provided they fit your distorted and deluded world-view; a near-extreme form of solipsism. That negative character trait of yours renders you unfit for a great number of things that educated, responsible adults enjoy doing. Things like teaching, holding office, owning and running a business, practicing medicine or law, and the fields of engineering and science; effectively anything in which you must work with others who may have a different point of view or opinion.

          See what I did there? I used tact correctly AND as described by a dictionary! We already know how you'll respond with your version of tact, which means more tired garbage about WW2 and the Germans, so it'll just further illustrate how unprepared you are for not only this tread, but the real world.

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          1. I like how Brian went from a position of,

            “Being pc means you keep your mouth shut so you don’t offend someone! We are tired of worring about stepping on people’s toes!”

            To a position of,

            “Tact is politely telling someone I don’t agree with you but doing it in a way that is not offensive!”

            Sorry bit of a minor point, but I do enjoy how he flip flopped like Mitt Romney. I would continue on how this guy is wrong. But I think you got it Graw lol.

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            1. There’s no flip and I hate mitt!

              I hate that I have to worry about messing with someone’s feeling!

              Those were explanations of why people use those terms these days!

              I think you men should man up and stop worrying about getting your feelings hurt!

              We should not have to pull punches on a Site like this!

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              1. You’re the one making up your own definitions to words on the fly, rather than read a dictionary it see what it actually means. You’re choosing to delude yourself rather than see how every entomologist, English professor, and language scholar on Earth have agreed upon the correct meaning of the word ‘tact’.

                Even when you’re outgunned and outnumbered, you’re still wrong.

                You willingly choose to speak rather than form your thoughts in your head. You just spew and spew and spew garbage about your weak feelings about matters you know nothing about. It’s not my fault you have entitlement issues and think the world should thank you for being American.

                I can also stand taller as a man than you can as a sponge. Remember that the next time you think about trying to ride the coattails of a 90 year old WW2 veteran hoping some of their glory rubs off onto you.

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              2. In considering that tact and political correctness have more or less the same definition, considering that, you kind of did change your position like Romney. Also if what you say is mostly wrong, and arrogant at the same time, you really think that we are not going to criticize you?

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              3. Brian…so much of what you devoid of logic and just flat out incorrect.
                You know nothing about the auto industry and indulge in mindless jingoism when your points fall apart.
                What is your beef with Holden? It earns GM money and provided not only the Zeta platform but also the basis of the SS, Caprice and Chinese Park Avenue.
                Wait, you hate Holden due to the closue of Pontiac. You fail to grasp that Australians do not want Pontiac and like their home grown brand.
                GM would loose a fortune if it took your advice and dropped anything not US based. You claim to like GM but everything you suggest would harm the company .
                Lastly, you do not grasp the meaning of tact and lack impluse control. How does the Second World War pertain to the current situation at GM? Do youthink that the CEO or board members consider the war when making business decisions.
                Chill with the paranoia. Stop suggesting that people who dl not agree with you are not American. Read and reseach the topic before posting. The entire board would not be calling you out if what you are doing were not wrong.

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                1. My point all along is I don’t like the idea that people in Australia will not buy chevys but still want to be apart of GM!

                  Look I understand how much money GM makes from these local company’s!

                  If a chevy malibu and a holden malibu are the same car then why won’t you buy a chevy?

                  When I go on vacation I pick GM cars to rent!

                  As for tact! Say what you want I was explaining what I thought the term came to be not what the text book definition was!

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                  1. “My point all along is I don’t like the idea that people in Australia will not buy chevys but still want to be apart of GM!”

                    Well, if America’s public image wasn’t on the slide for the last 60 years, maybe Aussies wouldn’t feel apprehensive about driving and/or owning a Chevrolet. If America is to correct it’s image, it’s going to take years of hard work on the international stage, not on GMA.

                    “As for tact! Say what you want I was explaining what I thought the term came to be not what the text book definition was!”

                    As one atheist to another: “What you believe, doesn’t make it so.”

                    That’s generally why I rely on the textbooks. Enough people have done the hard work researching the origin of the word that it saves me the hassle of assuming that I know what the meaning is off the top of my head.

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  9. Fyi what are black suburban s going to show up at my house?

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  10. I like both concepts for what they offer. The upside of the Elmiraj over the the Ciel is that this one looks mostly production ready. The Ciel never looked to me like they could or would build something looking even close to it. I’m really looking forward to whatever this is leading up to. 🙂

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  11. I like this concept more then the Ciel. The Ciel reminds me too much of the older Cadillacs, which isn’t a terrible thing. But in this industry you need a modern, elegant style and this concept is more fitting to that characteristic.

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    1. I agree with you about Elmirag being a better fit for today. Ciel is hot bit has a sort of box-like look.
      I sort of like the honey comb grill and new logo minus crest. I get that the complicated grill is iconic but it has become too in your face.
      Art and Science is nearly dead. I love this new look but this is not an evolution as pimped by GM. Instead, it is means via which to capure the Chinese market.

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  12. This concept appears more nearly production ready than any Cadillac presented in the recent past. A 4 door convertible, while lovely in it’s own right, just makes zero sense for production. It’s very easily to see the various design elements of the current ATS/XTS/new CTS in this concept. Deck lid shape, taillights, etc, it’s all there. Great wheels, just not production stuff unfortunately. Those ultra sized wheels simply do not ride and drive well enough for “real world” use.

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    1. It would be nice to see them break the mold and actually produce an interior that beautiful.

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  13. An Elmiraj offered as a either a Coupe or convertible with a folding hardtop would offer fans of either or both, the best of both vehicles.

    Unfortunately, GM has only two convertibles in its current lineup (Corvette and Camaro). There’s potential for more, but they need to be equipped with better-than-just-adequate power, especially if equipped with the folding hardtop!

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  14. Elmiraj… except the name though I do like the idea of a drol top 4 door I was never a fan of ciel front

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  15. Oh man, this is a no brainer! Cadillac, PLEASE produce the Elmiraj. Besides being gorgeous, it really looks “produce-able.”
    AND PLEASE, please keep the true HARDTOP feature!! If Mercedes can build one, CADILLAC can build a better one, like the Elmiraj. I would love to cruise in an Elmiraj with all windows down, memories flooding back to my personal 1950’s – 1960’s years: Impala SS, Star Chief 2HT, Special 4HT Riviera, ’63 Riviera – days of youth.

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    1. Something I’ve noticed about the Elmiraj’s hardtop is that there would be no place to put the rear windows down; the rear wheel well intrudes too much.

      It’s only a concept anyway, so for the photos and video of the car, I imagine the rear windows are simply removed from their frame rather than lowered. If the Elmiraj was a production car and was to be a hardtop, the rear wheels would have to move further back.

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  16. I Love them Both, Hell……Why Not just Build Both of Them?? 🙂 🙂 🙂 But after really looking at the drawings of the Elmiraj Concept, which is Very Closely On Point……….I would Really be interested in seeing the LED Light Bar filling in the Crease that runs toward the Grill like in the Drawing, I think it would b Even Sexier(If that’s Possible)……..What you guys think??

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  17. This is a concept and will not be produced as it is now even if it makes production.

    There are more things to come but this car is closer to production. The 3rd car that is to come will bring us even closer.

    We just need to let them roll this out as the car is not close to release yet. They are telling us and showing us the direction they are going and showing us what they are thinking.

    In the end those who understand the idea here of the concept will be happy with the production car. Those who do not understand the concept idea here will be disappointed only because of unrealistic expectations. Do not fool yourself into thinking this is the car we will see in 3 years as it will still need some things to make it on the street.

    Note they call it a concept for a reason.

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  18. Sort of amazing that Caddy wants tobdo away with the complex thick grill. Also playing with the logic. Seems they wanna reinvent the brand.

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  19. The real issue has been the Luxry car industry has evolved over the last 35 years since the 70’s. The large chrome laden boat is no longer the prime target of this market. Cadillac, Lincoln and Chrysler tried to retain this formula and cheaply tried to offer some models with hints of sports luxury in a cheap way.

    Cadillac woke up and learned from the other better selling brands that while you do not need to make every car a V series it needs to be a well tuned machine that gives a good ride but also will now wallow around and has so much chrome and bulkiness the it almost becomes a joke.

    Lincoln for so long tried to live or die with the Town Car that most sales went to fleet so as long as they were making money they were thinking they were ok but in the process they bankrupted their future as they really are lost now trying to find their way.

    Chrysler took the cheap way out and did the 300 to replace the New Yorker. Chrysler is now just a fancy Dodge and they are not even considered competition for the most part anymore.

    Cadillac tried to satisfy the present customers with the Deville/DTS and branch out into the Seville and STS later the CTS. Each time they improved but they just never were given the ability to fully commit to the program till the new management came in at GM.

    Today Cadillac has been given the green light to make things as they need to be to compete at the top level. It will take a little time and a lot of money but they will at least be seen in this segment at an option and choice. Lincoln still has a lot of work to do and the aging 300 is hanging on but I am not sure Fiat knows what to do there.

    So yes they are reinventing the brand fully. Some old hallmarks will go away and we will get new ideas and traditions as they catch up and hopefully compete and pass the others up.

    To be relevant you must first be relevant.

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    1. Finally a post I agree with!

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    2. ,scott, right on dude. I’m amazed at how often you get it the way it is. Thanks.

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    3. True that 🙂
      I just hope the rerain the fin like tail lights. Jag, MB, AM and a host of other car makers retain iconic tid bits and brand specific beats.
      In many ways Caddy stopped being a lux auto maker in the 70s and GM is now basically building up the brand from scratch.

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      1. Dead on. Am I the only one who notices that the more modern Cadillacs realign with the styling language and luxry philosophies the Cadillac greats of the past had (refined for modern consumption of course) the more appealing and competive the seem.

        I am a BIG Cadillac fan, but frankly have never desired a Cadillac from the last 40 years except for the 2nd gen CTS-Vs or a C-body Coupe Deville to lowride in my teens and early 20s.

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  20. cadillac car makers ar foolish

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  21. both cars are really striking but however this new concept really would like to see what a sedan would look like. as far as the ciel is concerned would there be any way u could get those headlights as close as possible to the concept. p.s. please do not stretch the roofline too much u take away from the authentincity of the design its just a thought.

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  22. give me the coupe with the ciel front end and rear.

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    1. That’s not really the q’s now is it? Pick one or the other!

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  23. I’ll take the coupe

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  24. I’m all about BIG Traditional Full Size American coupes; so it’s Elmiraj all the way for me!

    Elmiraj, Elllmmiiraaaaajj…I’m starting to really like that name. Maybe it will make it on side of a future Cadillac offering?

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    1. Large cars are the American/Australian contribution to auto history. This car should define Caddy.
      Luckly due to advances in fuel efficacy, Holden says the very Commodore will soon get Malibu like MPH, Caddy could once again be entering an era in which big cars capture mainstream appeal.
      I hope so.

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  25. I own a DTS platinum addition, my hope was that Cadillac will proceed with the Ciel in a full flagship car, instead they pulled out the XTS, its smaller with a v6 engine and not majestic as the DTS.

    The Ciel and the Elmiraj are beautiful cars, the Elmiraj can come also in a four door version.

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