Mailbag: Camaro Will “Never Beat The Fastest Mustang” Because Of Corvette
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This article is part of the GM Authority Mailbag series, where the GM Authority Crew features and replies to your questions, comments, and observations.
The following came to us from Mitchell E. after watching the most recent track shootout between the Chevy Camaro 1LE and the Ford Mustang 5.0 Track Pack:
Always remember this boys, the ZL1 Camaro will never beat the fastest Mustang for one reason. The reason is the Camaro can never beat the Corvette. It will never have the same horsepower as the Corvette. No GM car can never out run the Vette built for the same year. The Mustang can go as fast as they can make but the Vette stands in the way of the Camaro. Only the aftermarket company will make the Camaro
faster than the Vette.
Well, Mitchell — I’m not quite sure that your assessment holds water. The Camaro and Corvette each take entirely different approaches to automotive performance, and therefore exist in different realms of the vehicular performance world. A good example of the overall inaccuracy of your perception is the new Camaro ZL1, which already outperforms the “base” Corvette in some (if not most) performance metrics, while also outperforming the Shelby GT500 — a car that is reminiscent of using a jackhammer to drive a Box nail.
That said, having the ZL1 outperform a Vette is not a problem for Chevy, since the two vehicles offer an entirely different experience. And then there’s the fact that — ultimately — the sale goes to Chevrolet anyway.
But what does the GM Authority army have to say about Mitchell’s stance? Sound off in the comments below.
Photo credit goes to the lovely and talented Steven Pham.
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I have heard that myself through the years. Maybe it was Corvette owners sour grapes. I agree, they are two different markets. You have Camaro people and Corvette people. While I like the Corvette and would not turn down a free one, I mush prefer the history and memories I have with the Camaro, doesn’t matter to me if it is the secretaries V6 🙂 Or the ZL1. Me, I have a secretaries 2010 right now, but I am awaiting the rebirth of the Z28.
Haha Mitchell E, your thought are so flawed.
I’m not going to talk about the corvette aspect of this, but here’s how I see it:
In the straight line speed, the current Camaro and Mustang highest performance models are neck-and-neck.
And according to every Car and Driver article, and it has also been proven at every track the two have races at,, the Camaro is faster around any course for many reasons. 1. Magnetic Ride Suspension 2. Better weight distribution.
There are other reasons but I’ll wait for any Mustang lover to counter those first.
Camaro ZL1 > any “super snake”
Gt350
boom
I could have sworn GM had a “nothing faster than Corvette” rule, and that was why they never made the Cien.
I think people are thinking on the wrong side of this arguement…….I think ford is dumb for putting such a high rated engine in the mustang like that……not only did they out pace the camaro…..they sure as well cut away space for there return in the high sports car market….Chrysler and Chevy have the vette and the viper…..and with putting 650 HP in the mustang they will have to climb higher for a hypothetical ford GT or etc………Idk why ford would ever do that……plus the camaro beats the mustang around the track…
My one friend, a Ford die hard, ingrained since birth because is grandfather owned a dealership. And this was pre-ZL1. Not quoted verbatim since it was a year+ ago, but the just..
Him: the GT500 isn’t even competing with a Camaro, it’s the Corvette
Me: Well the modern GT500 has always seemingly been chasing after the Corvette, not trying to lead the Camaro battle. But the problem is the Corvette hasn’t been running from the GT500. At the end of the day, the GT is a big engine dragging around a $20k car chassis, missing the sophistication needed to truly take on the Corvette on a track.
Fast forward: enter the ZL1. Sure it’s built around the Zeta platform that underpins $20k cars, but it has big ol’ brakes with big-big 6 piston calipers, and MRC suspension, etc.
In my eyes the Vette has never been trying to best the Mustang, they may both be sports cars in basic form, but one is a sports-muscle car with 4 seats and the other a true sports car with both gran touring and super car abilities.
Plus the SS, 1LE, and ZL1 are all proven to dominate the comparable ‘Stang. Sure certain mustangs may take the Camaro on a drag, but that is one true benefit to it’s solid rear axle. Not to mention, performance is one thing, but people have to live with these cars, they have to commute and get coffee and pick up groceries, the Camaro is much easier to live with in terms of comfort because of it’s always adaptive MRC suspension… they just need to fix the visibility in the concept-esque sliver windows on the coupes.
Having been in automotive strategy positions working with GMers, I’m just gonna come out and say that Mitchell is full of $hit. Pure fiction on his part. See how he has no facts to back up his accusations? Well here’s one: GM gauges the competition and does its best to overcome it when designing new products. This will become very obvious with the next iteration of vehicles starting with the new Impala and CTS,
The “hierarchy” argument doesn’t apply with new GM… look no further than ZL1 overshadowing the CTS-V as proof.
Also, if his reasoning is true, the higher the Camaro rises in performance, the higher the Corvette can be pushed.
And if that is the case, I welcome it. Imagine the day when we see a $160k Corvette, capable of having the typical speed and handling of todays Vette with the interior of an Aston Martin and the refinement of an R8. Oh and the sexy looks of an 8C. Might as well toss in a KERS system. A no limits Vette. With a price tag like that engineers could finally have a real play date with possibilities.
I think the Vette is great for providing affordable performance, but I also want to see GM really enter the super car game with a worthy car, I’m not looking for a Pagani or Koenigsegg rival, but a true super car.
The Corvette and the Camaro are two different kind of predators. Both are Apex predators in their niche, its like comparing a Great white shark with an Orca they both are extremely powerful, graceful, skillful and Deadly to anything they encounter and pretty much rule the seas, but are in two separate classes. I would buy a ZL1 over a Stingray that’s just me. Call me crazy, hell I know I am but I’m Team Orca the Camaro. Others are team Great white shark, the Stingray. if you got some extra cash go visit Phastek performance.com for go faster parts on both.
And if you are Incredibly fortunate your Aquarium can have both..
I have no problem disagreeing with him. If GM really wanted a dyno queen, they’ll make a dyno queen. But the best example for this would be in 2002 when the best corvettes were neck and neck with the z28 camaro and could be destroyed by a Pontiac trans am in many times. Any company can shove a high horsepower motor into a car and call it a sports car, but that doesn’t make it a sports car. If Chevy were to build, say, a cruze coupe with a 427 in it that would utterly destroy a corvette, should we call that a sports car, hell no. But if they really wanted to, they could do it.
What a sec, wasn’t the GMC Syclone and GNX faster than the Corvette at their time? In fact, both were faster than most other cars in 1987 for the GNX and 91 the Syclone.
Andrew you are correct the GNX was the fastest production car that GM put out for it’s model year.
It was faster than the fastest mustang on the track so yea it can.. Just saying. Heres the deal we all know Ford doesn’t offer the Ford GT (GT40) anymore it was said to top out at 205 but obviously went over that. If Ford had that top model at $150,000 they wouldn’t want a car that cost $50,000-60,000 to be close to that performance either. That’s business and that’s understandable because you would be competing against yourself. The ZL1 was faster than the GS and it cost almost $2,000 less. If mustang had a car above it I think it would do the same except the Ford GT had only one trim the Corvette has four. But when we figure out the specs and performance of the new corvette and whenever the ZO6 and ZR1 we could see a bigger performance gap than previous generation and the Camaro will have plenty of room to fill.. I think they did a good job with the ZL1 I mean I know the car weighed 4,000lbs. but they have done good with what they had to manage with. I can’t wait to see the gen6 camaro and other c7 models aswell. I understand the comment about mustang not having any limitations but there will be the v6, the gt, the boss that the camaro can handle if they decide not to chase after the gt500..
I think he will say the same thing IF Ford kept the Ford GT
Very perceptive of you Alex to ask for input on this controverisal subject. Many of the comments from the readers are also well stated and I can see both sides of this. First, being a Corvette owner and just coming through the Camaro tail light issue on the C7 I think that many Corvette owners would come unglued if there was a Camaro of the same model year that could beat a Vette. I personally know more than a few Vette owners who would have thier cars on the market in a New York minute. What this points out is the need for the Corvette to get an optional high performance engine available for the new Vette along the lines of the 427 currently in the lineup though sadly for the last year.
Corvette needs for this to happen now as i discussed in my article, “Walk Softly and Carry a Big Stick” ( http://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/c7/my-generation-walk-softly-and-carry-a-big-stick.php) written a few weeks ago for Corvette Forum. As I state in the article in regards of owning the fastest American production model,
“But there’s some comfort knowing that I drive a Corvette, the King of the Hill, even though with my diminishing racing skills and lack of performance upgrades, another model, a ZL1 or even a GT500—with a competent driver—could hand me my ass. And it’s not that I like to brag, I just take solace in knowing that my car’s big brother can beat your car up. ” So though it may not be necessary for me to own the “ZR1” version of the Corvette the brand needs to have one. Have one that is the fastest production car.
Personally I think Corvette marketers know that and realize that they need to get an engine available for the new C7 that can still beat a Viper and the upcoming GT500, an engine that is more powerful than any engine in a Camaro. But based on the recent “tail light deviation” in the C7 maybe GM is giving up the idea that a production Camaro cannot be faster than a Corvette in the same model year.
I think that we will see that upgraded engine and it will maake this debate moot. I think we will see the legendary revived moniker “L88” gracing a 750 to 850 HP modified version of the LT1.
You can read my entire article and others at my blog:
http://revenantrt.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00-07:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00-07:00&max-results=3
With all the accolades the ATS has received I can’t wait to see the gen6 Camaro. I loved my 2000 SS (with a #3 sticker), it’s 320HP pails in comparison to todays numbers but with it’s light weight (as the gen6 will be) and tuned suspension it was like being on rails. Like my buddy with the (550hp supercharged Sierra) truck (with the #3 sticker) who’s posts you may have read, you gotta love those off ramps, on ramps and interchanges!
As for the C7 Z06 and ZR1, could we see a magnesium frame (with flame suppressant coating)? How about control arms and wheels as well! Magnesium engine and transmission anyone?
Ford didn’t make any money on the (Ford GT) by the way, with only 4,038 sold.
source: SVT chief Jamal Hameedi question (9)
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?19370-Ten-Questions-with-Jamal-Hameedi
Apples and Oranges!!!
I just skimmed through the comments, so someone may have already said this, but the Camero can ABSOLUTELY be better (and faster) than the fastest Mustang because they are direct competitors.
The Corvette has never competed with the Mustang because it’s in a different league entirely. The Corvette has the Porche, Ferrari, etc., in it’s crosshairs performance-wise, and though it may not always be the fastest in that category, it is a serious competitor becuase it is a fraction of the price of those cars for similar speed and track performance.
If you like a faster camaro wy do you thing they advertise after market up grade
I dont think GM ever intended for the Camaro to compete with the Corvette. Theoretically, there shouldnt be. The Camaro is a sport coupe and the Corvette is a true sports car. But for a lot of reasons, they do compete with each other.
I read this a few years ago, and it seems to indicate that it is true:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/15/is-chevrolet-camaro-cannibalizing-sales-of-the-corvette/
Alot of it has to do with the fact that all its life, the Camaro has always had the hand-me-down engines from the Corvette. The other problem (one which should be corrected with the Stringray) is that the Corvette was never up market enough. Part of it comes down to both style and the advanced age of the C6.
Now, I dont have a problem with it so much because as much as I like the Corvette, any Corvette for that matter, the Camaro is my favorite of the two. I think the Camaro does need a bit more differentiation from the Corvette than what we see today. The fact that the Stingray is moving a bit up market from the C6, and this should help. But I think the Camaro needs to position itself just slightly down market to help as well. Chevrolet also needs to focus on marketing these cars to different types of buyers. Alot of this has to do with bringing new buyers to these cars and shedding the legacy that the Camaro is the poor mans Corvette and the Corvette is the car of the successful plumber. We all know what the Corvette is aiming to be but the Camaro needs a new direction. It should take a page from its own history and reinvent itself as the car with something for everyone. How about a 2.0L Turbo base sport coupe thats Toyobaru Twin killer? Or a 3.6L V6 Berlinetta. And a Voltec based version for the eco friendly performance junky. Speaking of performance, how about a Twin Turbo V6 Z28 road racer? And a Big V8 street brawler? And one day there may come a time for a Shelby killer ZL1 that would of course leave a few Vettes in its wake. A little bit of a rub there with the Corvette guys, but nothing that cant be mitigated by keeping the production volume limited and making sure theres an uber Corvette that can still outperform the Camaro.
like many other Z/28 fans , i’ve been waiting for the return of the Z/28 . but i have a problem ,only { ONE } speaker { NO } power seat , come on might be five lbs . in 1969 you could get more than { ONE } speaker i know this for a fact i own 1969 Z/28 with a rear speaker and have the orginal ivoice to prove it , but the only thing that will stop me from buying the car is the price , if it cost more than ZL1 i might have to re-think the whole idea . its a great looking car and should proform as good as its looks. GOOD JOB
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