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Rumormill: Buick Plans To Reintroduce Grand National, T-Type, GNX On RWD Alpha Architecture

Citing a “reliable source”, Edmunds InsideLine says that Buick is planning to reintroduce the Grand National, T-Type, and GNX nameplates. According to the report, the storied performance models from the 1980s will ride on GM’s new RWD Alpha platform introduced by the Cadillac ATS compact performance-luxury sedan, will have redesigned interior and exterior styling befitting the Buick design language, and will be four-door sedans.

Sticking with tradition, the T-Type and Grand National will share powertrains and suspension calibrations but the former will be offered in a full color palette, while the latter will only come in black. IL surmises that GM’s upcoming twin-turbocharged 3.6 liter V6 will be used in the T-Type and GN, where it should produce between 350 to 400 horsepower, while the GNX will use GM’s all-new LT1 V8 smallblock, which has been confirmed to fit into the Alpha platform. According to the report, all of the subsystems — including steering, brakes, and suspension — will be shared with the ATS, and both manual and automatic transmissions are possible.

IL says that it will be at least a year before we hear anything official from Buick about these models and speculates that the 2014 Detroit Auto Show is where they’ll be shown. In addition, General Motors has filed trademarks for all three nameplates, including Grand National, GNX, and T-Type.

For the uninitiated, the Buick Regal T-Type, Grand National, and GNX were — for all intents and purposes — the quickest cars on the market in 1986 and 1987. They were powered by turbocharged variants of Buick’s 3.8 liter V6 boasting 200 hp (150 kW) at 4400 RPM and 300 lb-ft (407 Nm) of torque at 2400 RPM and earned instant critical acclaim along with drag strip cred. The cars today are highly-valued collector items, with some of the 547 GNXs built in 1987 going for as much as $100,000 at auction.

The GM Authority Take

Reintroducing serious performance into Buick would significantly change the brand’s direction, identity, image, and focus. As such, we’re taking this report with a morsel-full of salt.

What makes us doubt this report even more, however, is the following: if the ATS does indeed end up sharing most of its componentry (including its dimensions) with the T-Type, Grand National, and GNX — essentially making them Buick’s compact performance sedans — where would that leave the well-selling Verano and its well-received Turbo variant? After all, the Verano is also a compact vehicle — albeit much less performance-focused.

But let’s imagine that the goal is, indeed, to move Buick in a new direction — away from soft luxury (where it is now) to a more performance-focused luxury (where, ironically, Cadillac is vying to play). Adding three more sedans will leave Buick with six (yupp, a whopping six) sedans, including:

  • Verano
  • Regal
  • LaCrosse
  • T-Type
  • Grand National
  • GNX
These will be joined by at least two crossovers (Encore, Enclave) as well as an upcoming midsize/compact unit (Envision/Enspire).

Six sedans, even if they’re all variants of the same car, seems like overkill to us — and makes for a third reason that has us highly doubting the accuracy of the IL report.

Hat tip to Coreyell C.

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Comments

  1. not sure if any of this is true, but it speaks to a refocusing for the Buick brand that has been the hot topic on GM Authority. my guess is the diverse alpha platform will play a role in the future of new Buick…

    Reply
  2. Reuss is a Buick/GNX nut. If he can he will do this.

    Why would you list the t-type/GN/GNX as separate sedans in the same list as the Regal/LaCrosse/Verano? This will be one sedan with different powetrains.

    AND who said it would be a four door???

    Why not have a sporty coupe with all those FWD four doors??? And it does not have to be a hard suspension. As the GNX long ago it would be the smoothest riding performance vehicle available.

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  3. I will add that Buick needs a halo vehicle. Currently I would say the Enclave fills that position but a high performance premium coupe would do much better for Buicks rep.

    The original GN/GNX brought a different buyer into the Buick showroom. As Buick continues to work on lowering its average age this would help tremendously.

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  4. GM could revive the

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    1. That would fit more in as a Regal Coupe

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  5. It all seems very redundant to me. Pick one! Also, since the Regal is selling so poorly, why not throw a curveball and put the whole model on Alpha? It’s supposed to be a sport sedan, make it the cheapest one on the market.

    One more thing, I’d like to see this as a trickle down of RWD. First Cadillac, then Buick, and soon Chevrolet (not the SS, I mean mainstream RWD sedans.)

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  6. Dropping the regal for this vehicle makes some sense. But seems like a pretty big gap between compact Verano and large lacrosse.

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  7. I guess it was bound to happen. I hope it’s not happening because of some last second plan to scuttle Opel or bring China’s ATS plant up to capacity, though. Or because of some ridiculous pressure from jealous Buick dealers.

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  8. Let Cadillac be the performance luxury brand. Buick should target a different type of customer.

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    1. @Jo I couldn’t agree more.

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    2. yeah, otherwise Buick and Cadillac should just merge together (after all no one really likes Buick) and GM should bring Pontiac back!

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  9. Alex, you have stated in the past that each brand should have the choice of plotting its own course, how can that happen if in the same breath we say only Cadilac can be sporty luxury… Buick should be able to create a direction that brings in customers first and formost. The size, engin choice and design language can differentiate the two…

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    1. Yaba — each brand should have autonomy within an already-set overall strategy. It’s easier to think of it in terms of VAG (VW Auto Group), in particular as it relates to Audi, Bentley, and Porsche — which are all part of the VAG family.

      VW corporate sets the strategy and direction of each brand. From there, each brand has autonomy as to how that direction is reached. They can collaborate and share R&D efforts (which they do) in powertrain, architectures, etc. or they can choose to work on their own, pending approval of the board and/or C-level executives. This structure and process works very, very well — given that Audi is on track to become the most popular luxury brand in the world over the next few years.

      The reason this strategy works so well is three-fold:
      1. The overall strategy is set by VAG corporate, which prevents in-fighting
      2. Corporate and brand-specific designers and engineers work to create uniqueness while preventing duplication/inefficiency
      3. Operations that should be centralized are (such as purchasing, etc.).

      Each brand serves a distinct purpose and attempts to reach a distinct (unique?) clientele.

      GM has a similar thing going right now with its brands, although the autonomy aspect is a bit murky. However, moving Buick into performance luxury will encroach on Cadillac’s territory of red-blooded luxury. That’s not to say that Buicks can’t be RWD… they just need to be docile RWD vehicles. Think Lexus LS until 2012: silent, understated, focused on comfort, not performance.

      Buick should focus on this kind of experience across any and all sizes and vehicle types, be they sedans, coupes, or crossovers (not trucks, obviously). Does that answer your question at all?

      Reply
  10. Cadillac and Buick can both have performance, as long as their powertrains are very different.

    Cadillac has been big on Corvette/Caprice type drivetrains. Now if Buiick takes the twin turbo Lambda engine, which follows Buick history a little more closely, then it can present serious HP without stepping on Cadillac’s toes.

    Of course as I write this I’m reminded of that article earlier today with a turbo V8……

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  11. I highly doubt this. This would intrude on Cadillac big time. Buick sedan gets a V8 but the CTS and ATS don’t? These cars would be sweet but you don’t want any Buicks going around spanking Cadillacs on performance. Leave the performance stuff to Cadillac. I really hope this isn’t true

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  12. I wouldn’t worry about the verano turbo. the GN and GNX would cost much more than a verano turbo.Im guessing round 35-45k so the verano turbo would cater to an affordable small sedan buyer.

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  13. And what does this do to the propects of an ATS-V; the car that we expect to assassinate the M3 on the track?

    Spit in it’s face.

    Step off, Buick.

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  14. I’m not sure why the negativities here but Cadillac performance division is just aiming at amg and the M’s the buicks can just be the ones like the F editions from Lexus or the s series from Audi. Like Alex said before would you want Buick to go up against Acura where is low volume??

    Reply
    1. Here’s the irony: Lexus established F to compete with BMW’s M, and it hasn’t been a very successful endeavor.

      Buick doesn’t necessarily need a performance division/sub-brand. I don’t think the original Lexus customers and those who prefer comfort/silence even care about power, let alone performance. There’s a ton of room remaining for improving existing Buick models and creating more product (coupe, Midsize/compact crossover, etc.). This effort seems very left field…

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      1. but then eventually Buick models are gonna be Opel based and since Opel/Vauxhall do have performance division it would probably be a real letdown if it doesnt doesn’t it?

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        1. Or will Opels be based on Buicks? 😉

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          1. it can work eitherway… I’m just saying like if Buick wants to be the next Lexus they can play this wildcard

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  15. I was interested until they said it would be sedan. Why have American car builders forgotten the idea of the touring coupe? I’m sick of the mentality that just because a car has 2 doors it has to be a toy, a fun car for the weekends instead of a more stylish and sporty daily driver. We haven’t had an American coupe that’s comfortable for more than two people since the Monte Carlo…except maybe the Dodge Challenger, and even that is supposed to be phased out for something smaller, therefore less practical. And don’t try and talk to me about the styling nightmare that is the Cadillac CTS coupe.

    That Opel concept in the video above is a much better direction for this. Buick needs something INTERESTING if they want to move out of the senior citizen market.

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    1. Good point about coupes as daily drivers. I imagine they’d be especially attractive for singles and couples with no children.

      And I’ll defend the CTS coupe. I, for one, love its design.

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    2. Becasue nobody wants a full-size coupe, and hasn’t been a demand as such since the early 90’s.

      It’s not that the “American car builders forgotten the idea of the touring coupe”, it’s that the demand has been on a slide since the late 70’s and died with the last Caprice coupe…whenever that was.

      The Monte was a mid-size, and even then those were super low volume; not to mention its inferior W body.

      To hell with impratical coupes. They are toys, they aren’t volume sellers, and their ROI is low.

      Reply
      1. Graw — you’re correct that the demand and subsequent sales volume is for full size coupes has been on a decline. But the ROI could be high (or at least decent) at a low volume if the coupe in question were to share a platform, design, manufacturing line, and possibly marketing resources with a high-volume vehicle… say an Impala, Malibu or Cruze coupe.

        Obviously, only one of those is full size, but given that modern vehicles are more space efficient, it could fill the demand (assuming it exists).

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      2. I’m not talking 70s land yacht size, but I do want a 2 door that seats 5 and has room in the trunk for their gear. Besides that, not only did the Regal start out as a coupe, but the model is in danger of being usurped by the Verano. Making it a coupe could save the model by giving it the distinction it needs.

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        1. “not only did the Regal start out as a coupe, but the model is in danger of being usurped by the Verano.”

          Un.su-rp.
          Verb:

          1.Take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force.
          2.Take the place of (someone in a position of power) illegally; supplant.

          How is the Verano a threat to the Regal? Why are you afraid of the Verano?

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    3. My 2011 Camaro seems pretty comfortable to me, heated leather, sunroof ,heads up display, power everything, and pretty powerful under the hood too…It’s my daily driver, not a toy and I love it.

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  16. Is this the same chassis the next Camaro will be on? Is that 2015?

    Reply
    1. Yupp. The Camaro might carry some modifications here and there, but overall — the same.

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  17. Whats the big deal with everyone? team Buick vs team Cadillac? why can’t they both have high performance rear wheel drive sedans? who says they can’t? Camaro / Firebird/ Trans am both pony /muscle cars they co existed. in the same segment,. The Pontiac Grand am Oldsmobile Alero, both we’re virtually the same car in the same segment. to mid to late 80’s Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Buick Regal two door models. were All G platform based A-bodied coupes and competed against each other remember the Olds 442, Buick, Grand national and Monte Carlo SS ? they all existed at the same time, so why can’t Cadillac and Buick have a high performance sedan? GM has a rich history Of having similar cars with similar performance available to most of their brands. Will they cannibalize sales from each other? Doubtful people who want to buy Cadillac by a Cadillac people who want to buy a Buick by a Buick, Also I have a strong suspicion that and ATS-V would be more powerful and way more expensive than a Grand national. or a GNX. Each car will have their own niche and they both deserve to exist, Whether or not Buick decides to add high-performance vehicles is up in the air. I sincerely hope they do. And besides it would be a win-win for GM And a win-win for customers It’s all about choice people.
    And personally for me the more to choose from the better.

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    1. I agree 100% with archangel does anyone realize the amount of people still asking for Pontiac to come back and to bring the Firebird/Trans Am along? Why do people want that because they want CHOICE and when someone loves everything about a camaro but say the styling of it, well what do they think about the Trans Am? I for one would love to have an ATS-V but I’m not putting out that kind of money for a car because I can’t afford it. You give me an option of the same car also great styling for 10 – 15K less well now I’m listening. Why does the little guy have to suffer when the rich get the cars they want? Not to mention the Buick brand wants to attract younger people? Here’s a 24 year old saying I want RWD and HP not FWD boat anchors that hit 60 in 10 seconds. Just my $.02

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      1. “Why does the little guy have to suffer when the rich get the cars they want? Not to mention the Buick brand wants to attract younger people? Here’s a 24 year old saying I want RWD and HP”

        Becasue the rich have money and get what they want.

        You’re a “little guy” and you want RWD and HP?

        Get rich first then try again. You’re not suffering by not having these features. Nobody NEEDS RWD and lots of HP unless they’re a logger, a registered tradesman, a farmer, or otherwise. If you’re a blue collar worker who lives in a city and you commute, you don’t need RWD.

        If you want RWD and HP you can make on your own, call your local Toyota dealer ans ask about their stock of 86’s.

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        1. @69c21 If you want affordable RWD and HP, get a Camaro. With the exception of RWD, that market would also be served nicely by a performance variant of the Cruze. But Buick shouldn’t be about power, RWD (or any kind of wheel drive, for that matter), or performance. It should be about understated, relaxed, silent, and refined luxury.

          Attracting younger buyers doesn’t mean “attracting younger people at any cost”. Rather, it means attracting luxury car buyers who happen to be younger; not power-hungry kids who want to do burnouts and don’t care about luxury or status-based image (I fall into this camp myself right now).

          Ultimately, I don’t think these vehicles would fit well with the direction in which the New Buick is headed. Perhaps GM should instead shoehorn 2- and 4-door Alpha platformed cars into Chevy: Camaro and (insert your name here) sedan (that’s not the SS).

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          1. Luxury is about power. The upscale luxury cars have had their horsepower go up and up, back in the early 90’s BMW and Mercedes Benz stuffed 12 cylinder engines into their luxury cars now the v12 days are almost gone due to economy standards but horsepower has drastically increased to were 450 hp plus is the norm for high end luxury cars hell even the Hyundai Equis and the Genesis sedan has a 429 hp v8 and the genesis goes for 46k with the V8. If Buick Is to be so sedate and explain the Verano turbo or the regal GS turbo? Why turbocharge their engines it’s about Power and power equals performance. Buick has a rich history of high-performance vehicles The Buick regal competed in NASCAR and Richard Petty won The Daytona 500 In a Regal And Buick when the constructors cup in NASCAR in 1981 and 1982 The grand national was named after the Nascar grand national racing series. Now I understand this is back in the 80s but still Buick has a reputation Why else would they want to revive these cars? If it’s not about power and performance?

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            1. “Luxury is about power” to those who care and value such attributes. There are automakers/brands today that serve those that demand such qualities, including Benz, BMW, Audi, and the New Cadillac.

              However, there exists a huge demand for luxury vehicles that are luxurious but not performance-focused. That’s an opportunity for anyone who would like to tackle it, but especially for GM, which has an “extra” luxury brand at its disposal in Buick.

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            2. Becasue nobody walking into a Buick showroom knows or give 2 cents about NASCAR in the 80’s.

              Buick isn’t trying to attract NASCAR viewers as buyers. People who buy luxury cars generally don’t watch or care about NASCAR.

              Don’t belive me? We can always ask anyone who has bought a luxury car in the last 5 years. Of course we can’t ask all of them, but I highly doubt that the latest owner of a Lexus RX doesn’t know who Petty is.

              Luxury is not about HP. Luxury, by defination, is having features that aren’t nessisary, but are those that are precived as desireable. Power will appeal to some luxury buyers…..a very slim few.

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              1. You can ask me. I just bought a luxury car in the past YEAR. I didn’t buy it for the “luxury” appeals that you SEEM to claim everyone wants when buying said luxury vehicle. I bought the GS because of the 270 HP/295 lb ft of SAE certified power. I bought it because of the Brembo brakes, sport seats, and interactive drive control system with sport and grand sport modes. I could care less about front parking assist, heated leather seats, etc. I bought it for the fact that it was a BUICK with performance aspects you normally see on OTHER car brands. And if you ask most Regal GS owners why they picked the GS, they’ll tell you the same thing. I’m sorry you can’t seem to accept that Buick could have niche vehicle, but if this plays out, you can go sulk in the corner.

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        2. Do you Remember when you were young and starting out? Or we’re you born rich? With mommy and daddy buying you everything? I live in the city I commute and I have a high hp rwd car and I am by no means rich. I busted my butt through school and earned everything I own the hard way by working.
          Given by your get rich first comment you must of had daddy buy you your cars. And things Instead if working for it like every body else..

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          1. Guys — I still don’t see the problem here. Rich or not, there’s choice:

            Affordable performance:
            – RWD: Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Charger (perhaps Chevy SS)
            – FWD: Civic Si, VW GTI, VW GLI, Focus ST, Subaru WRX (hopeful for a Cruze Z-Spec/SS)
            – RWD: Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ

            Luxury Performance (most are RWD):
            Pretty much anything from Audi, BMW, Benz, or now Cadillac

            Who cares about being rich (or not rich)? The point is that Buick shouldn’t make affordable performance cars (Chevrolet), and it shouldn’t make luxury performance cars (Cadillac). It should make refined luxury cars.

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            1. What about just make it as a Premium performance Alex?

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              1. For what purpose, Vic? Who would that serve?

                I surmise such a car would be in demand by a select few… the same folks who care about “heritage” and “tradition” — but for some reason wouldn’t spring for an ATS-V. All that would do is create a car that loses money for Buick, while clouding its image.

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                1. I’m pretty sure that Buick plans to set these cars as a niche but really lets all leave it up to buick and let them play this wildcard before GM goes up to the fanpage and then deletes the plan (like how they did to the granite)

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          2. Likewise. I’ve paid EVERYTHING on my own dime. Did construciton labour too. There is not one extraneous expense in my life left to anyone. All the money I have coming in only leaves my hands. The calluses on my hands will never leave me.

            Along the way, I realized there exists a north american social class system. Didn’t take me long to figure that one out, and even I “spurged” when I bought the Z years ago. A 3rd gen instantally outs you as blue collar.

            Know your place and your tastes. You can’t live beyond your means, and if you can live within your means, don’t advertise it.

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        3. We’re not talking about cheap cars that Toyota neither designed nor built the engines for. We’re talking whether Buick should bring back an iconic car. I don’t know what world you live in Grawdaddy, but you seem to have something against Buick. You seem to think that a new Grand National is going to steal Caddy sales. The GN would attract a different kind of buyer than anything Caddy puts out. I personally don’t see the Regal being around too much longer. It was an obvious “filler” car for the new Buick. I had heard rumors that the GS more than likely would get a power bump and AWD in 2014. I heard this before the GN announcement. This leads me to believe that the Regal will probably be dropped. And your poor people can’t have a choice in what kind of car they own comment….ignorant. Bring on the GN!!

          Reply
          1. This has nothing to do with old nameplates and “heritage”. This has everything to do with branding and product.

            An “Iconic car” is meaningless if the primary buyer for the car doesn’t care about the past. They want the best now, not a suck up to 1980’s.

            Actually, answer your own statement:

            “The GN would attract a different kind of buyer than anything Caddy puts out.”

            Who? Who would want a hypothetical GS over a hypothetical ATS-V? What’s kind of buyer is looking at a Buick and not a Cadillac?

            Hearing rumors doesn’t nothing to your case…and even if Buick did have the Regal nameplate in active use, it doesn’t mean that GM is going to pursue a GS, GN or any other model just because they did so years ago.

            What you’re hoping for is ‘wish fufillment’.

            Also, what’s a GS or GNX going to do that an ATS-V couldn’t?

            Sounds like you’re trying to make Buick into a reheated Pontiac.

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            1. If heritage and icons mean nothing then why do we have all these retro cars on the market? if by your logic no one would want a GS over ATS-V
              who would want an ATS-V over a BMW M3 four door? this whole post is about rumor Buick never stated they would bring their iconic name plates back its just an idea a good one at that. f-body man has a good point no one has answered if Buick is to be the cushy luxury soft riding brand then explain the Verano turbo and the GS? why turbocharge them?. Why is Buick adding performance to their line up? And why does this post even exist in the first place is Buick and GM were considering it? Look at the new Impala with the V6, prices are with in spitting distance of the ATS, does GM think the impala will eat into ATS sales? no and who’s to say Chevy wont have an impala SS down the road? what an GS and the GNX is going to do that an ATS-V couldn’t simple bring customers into a Buick showrooms..and that’s the whole point that you seem to miss.

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              1. “If heritage and icons mean nothing then why do we have all these retro cars on the market?”

                What? You mean all 5 of retro styled cars presently available vs the 120+ that aren’t retro?

                For the record, the next gen Mustang is ditching retro, and the “new” Beetle has a far more practical (and profitable) cousin to back it up when it’s sales drop; the 3dr Golf.

                So what’s so damn remarkable about the 5th gen Camaro, the Challenger, and the FJ Crusier that demands their “heritage” to be respected?

                The answer is ‘feck all’. Retro is dead, and there is no point in celebrating the past when the past wasn’t allowed to evolved and march in step with present.

                That’s why I left out the Wrangler and the 911. Can you guess what those 2 are doing right that the above 5 aren’t?

                To hell with heritage. It’s meaningless anyway if the orginal engineers aren’t their to uphold the orginal vision of the car.

                Oh yes, you’re right about my logic. Nobody would choose a GS over an ATS-V. The reason being is that the V-series is a clean slate; their isn’t any negitive baggage drudging up from the 80’s with it’s execution.

                If GM listened to you, you’d advertise the hypothetical GS, GN, and GNX with NASCAR, Petty, the Cold War, and even music from the 80’s.

                If Buick wants new hi-po cars, they should use new names.

                New muscle.
                New names.
                No baggage.

                It’s as simple as that.

                Reply
                1. So because you don’t like retro cars the rest of us who own one must be idiots by your logic, So Chevy HHR gen 5 Camaros Ford Mustangs for over 10 years now Ford GT. Dodge Charger Challenger The Plymouth PT cruiser Mazda Miata Fiat 500 Volkswagen Beetle yes even the new one, Mini coopers Nissan with the 350Z ,The FJ cruiser These are the only ones that quickly come to mind. All the above owners are crazy for buying them? Add them all up that’s 1,500,000+ in sales of these vehicles million and a half plus of these cars on the road if not even more GM Chrysler Ford Fiat Mazda Toyota Mini Nissan they must be all crazy for making these cars right? By your logic all the above owners are idiots Because you don’t give a rats anus about retro. I must be completely totally insanely out of my mind because I love my 5th gen Camaro.
                  And I find it interesting you never answer the question would you buy in ATS-V over a BMW M3 four-door? I find that funny because Cadillac never Officially announced an ATS-V it’s all speculation Just like the Buicks in question, if they were to be built they would be based on NEW architecture. If GM listen to me all their cars would be exciting and dynamic to drive it would put a smile on your face to say yeah I own a GM A company that knows its history where It’s come from And knows where it’s going..It’s as simple as that.
                  But hey I’m crazy remember?

                  Reply
                  1. And let me add the Ford Taurus for example before it was the ford five hundred Sales were abysmal they changed it back to the Taurus and sales skyrocketed, Why because people remember Taurus its called called heritage, And lo and behold they one upped themselves and brought back the Taurus SHO.. a 1990’s nameplate. Sounds kind of similar to the Buick situation doesn’t it? Bringing back a high-performance name, to an existing car
                    Also I like to add that Nearly every luxury car maker and regular car makers are involved in racing, Aston Martin Jaguar, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Lexus, Nissan Mazda in Japan, Hell even Bentley competed in Le-mans, and lets not forget Acura was also racing in the ALMS series racing. Here in America NASCAR’s is huge Ford, Chevy, Dodge even Toyota is racing. Mazda has its own spec racing series for the Miata, And RX8 And even the Chevy Cruz is kicking butt In racing, Of course you can’t forget the Chevy Corvette and Dodge Viper in racing, And yes even your beloved Cadillac is racing.
                    The old adage win on Sunday sell on Monday works even for premium automobiles. Formula One and the European touring car championship Is Just as popular in Europe as NASCAR ALMS and Indy is in America.
                    Racing is part of a brands heritage but that’s the word you don’t understand or like heritage.

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                  2. I’ll pick apart this because you’re oh so wrong. You foolishly seem to think retro extends beyond sheetmetal.

                    Retro is a mear styling exercise. It’ll die out like leapord skin clothing.

                    Chevy HHR (discontinued)
                    gen 5 Camaros (as stated)
                    Ford Mustangs (next gen stang ditches retro)
                    Ford GT (discontinued)
                    Dodge Charger (not even retro)
                    Challenger (as stated)
                    The Plymouth PT cruiser (discontinued AND wrong brand)
                    Mazda Miata (Not even retro)
                    Fiat 500 (a crashing non-player)
                    Volkswagen Beetle (discontinued)
                    yes even the new one (as stated)
                    Mini coopers (negligable)
                    Nissan with the 350Z (not even retro AND discontinued)
                    The FJ cruiser (as stated)

                    We’re talking about selling cars TODAY, not from 5-10 years ago. Get real.

                    So you could only add 2 more cars to my list of retro failures? Bra-vo. I know in the post beneith this you mention the Taurus. That most certainly isn’t retro by any stretch of your colourful imagination.

                    You seem to think that the Taurus nameplate, since it was relaunched, constitutes “retro”.

                    Retro is just a styling theme. That’s all.

                    Also, I’m glad you caught the bit about racing. Seeing all those brands have had racing efforts even to this day, how will Buick fare when it’s last memorable racing was with NASCAR back in the 80’s?

                    I don’t care if NASCAR is massive in the US, that’s not my argument. My argument is the racing efforts of 30 years ago mean little TODAY.

                    EVERYONE knows about the “Sunday/Monday” line. Nobody is buying your “race 30 year ago, and hope to get consumers today” bullshit.

                    As for heritage, well, there simply isn’t such a thing because it can’t be quantified. The word you’re confusing it with is “track record”. I mean that’s not hard to digest is it?

                    Reply
                    1. You really don’t get it do you? The cars I mentioned were retro-styled I never said anything about current or past production did I ? And I’m pretty sure they still make the beetle Oh please forgive me the new beetle. Obviously We understand you made your point so clear that you don’t care about anything aside your own opinion. And you never answered my question Would you choose a Fictional ATS-V over a BMW M3 for door? And the Ford Taurus is a name I never claimed it was retro, Perhaps you should try reading first. Before you read into it.
                      But of course you’re entitled to your own opinion Because no one Else’s counts. Mr. intangible. I hope you’re not married because you can’t Quantify love either.

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                  3. Well you are crazy. You think GM wouldn’t build an ATS-V? They want Cadillac to be taken seriously on the world’s stage. Sure, nothing has been announced, but at this point, given the track record of the CTS-V, what’s to stop them but angry, powerless Buick buyers?

                    Here’s the real load of trash:

                    “Just like the Buicks in question, if they were to be built they would be based on NEW architecture. If GM listen to me all their cars would be exciting and dynamic to drive it would put a smile on your face to say yeah I own a GM A company that knows its history where It’s come from And knows where it’s going..It’s as simple as that.”

                    So you think GM should sink billions more into dedicated platforms for EACH product of each brand? Do you have any idea how unsound and wasteful that idea is? How many engineers they’d need to hire and pay to do 10 times the work that’s needed?

                    I suppose next you’ll tell me that GM shouldn’t share platforms within it’s brands and that platform sharing will go away in the future.

                    You then finish up with a lie:

                    “If GM listen to me all their cars would be exciting and dynamic”

                    And cost 10’s of thousands more due to their hyper-inflated engineering costs because of diminished platform engineering ROI…becasue you didn’t share the platfrom.

                    Come back when you have a working argument, not a fanified dream that mirrors a world from the 60’s.

                    Reply
                    1. Oh boy you sure schooled me didn’t you ?

                      Reply
                  4. Lets keep him quiet, he certianly has a lot of unimportant things to share with us.

                    “The cars I mentioned were retro-styled”

                    The MX-5 and 350Z are retro styled? What the hell are you smoking? I should point out that it’s the 370Z that you missed eniterly, and even that AND the MX-5 are virtually the anti-thesis of retro. Neither of those cars look like they step out of 1965, and I very much doubt you’ll find anyone who would agree with you.

                    As for the ATS-V vs the M3, it’s simple. If the ATS-V can walk the walk and do it at a comprible price point, I would. If it can’t, it doesn’t get my attention. Simple.

                    Mind you, I don’t hold just the M3 in such reguard in that segment. I’ll hold ALL cars from all makes to the same standards. There will be winner, those less than perfect, those way off base, and no Lincoln.

                    Was that so damn hard?

                    Love, by the way, is a biochemical responce of the amygdala. I’m no neurologist, but I’m certian neuroscience is well on it’s way to quantifing love, and every other emotion you think is beyond quantification.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala

                    Please try again.

                    Reply
                    1. Archangel has been hitting the nail on the head and I’ve been enjoying reading his responses. It’s obvious you DON’T get it Grawdaddy. Heritage is heritage and it doesn’t mean people are stuck in the past. Sometimes heritage can be a good thing and sometes a bad thing. If you don’t like a retro based car, don’t buy one!! Archangel made the best point saying that by Ford revitalizing the Taurus name, it helped them tremendously. Even personnel at Ford said that canning the Taurus name was a stupid idea. Would it be wise for Chevy to bring back the Corvaire name? How about Ford bringing back the Pinto name? Nope, that’d be dumb; however, Buick bringing back the GN name would be smart. It’s a legend!! Bottom line, a Buick GN, GNX, and T Type would sell!!

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                    2. Grawdaddy I find your back-and-forth ping-pong arguing quite amusing quite funny actually however. Reading both of your posts I’ve come to a conclusion, And I have to take Archangel’s side on this one. You both have your points, opinions and you both strongly believe in them.
                      That’s awesome, that’s why we are here because we ALL LOVE CARS!!!!! The only way one of you guys will be right is if either A. Buick builds the Cars in question or B. they don’t.

                      We’ll find out in a couple years won’t we? Archangel’s comments and arguments Are better based in fact than yours. I can and I have researched his posts he’s mostly right He did screw up on the Plymouth PT cruiser in fact it is a Chrysler, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. Perhaps he was thinking about the Plymouth Prowler, Yes I know it’s discontinued but you can’t get any more retro than that. He never claimed the Grand National the T-type or the GNX were to be retro based. And he’s absolutely correct when he brought up the Ford Taurus. He’s also hundred percent correct with the 350 Z and the Miata Go ahead and do a wiki on it.
                      And I’m sorry but I have to add this little bit.
                      My wife owns a Chevy HHR SS it’s called a Heritage High Roof. Go look it up if you need proof, You’re talking about heritage being intangible? just walk up to an HHR and touch the roof….. there you go, you just touched heritage. Seems pretty damn tangible to me and my wife. Archangel says he owns a 5th gen Camaro, In my opinion that car is a Very strong example of tangible heritage on wheels to me.

                      Now to quote you
                      “If Buick wants new hi-po cars, they should use new names.”
                      New muscle.
                      New names.
                      No baggage.”
                      Could I ask you what Awesome names would you use? now this I got to hear! Now by your own rules you can’t use any classic or dare I say retro, heritage names.. go ahead and take your time on this one…
                      we all can wait for your answer…
                      And can you please explain baggage? What sort of baggage would Grand National, Type-T or GNX Carry I can’t wait to hear your response on this one!
                      Tim rosser made a excellent point if I may quote him
                      “Would it be wise for Chevy to bring back the Corvaire name? How about Ford bringing back the Pinto name? Nope, that’d be dumb; however, Buick bringing back the GN name would be smart. It’s a legend!! Bottom line, a Buick GN, GNX, and T Type would sell!!”

                      GN, GNX, and T Type Do you assume those names are baggage? We would love to hear your insights on that, If you said the Skylark I would have to agree with you.

                      Personally myself I would love to see a Riviera coupe. and the Buick Reatta was also very nice car, Although it was a sales failure you got to give Buick props for trying something like that. I think they’re trying something similar to this again but are putting more thought into it. and being more cautious.
                      Every brand has the right to proceed the way they would like to,
                      and Buick deserves and has earned the right to add performance models to their line up. this is all speculation and hear say. The first word of the title of this post is the word RUMORMILL.
                      Like I said we’ll find out the truth in a couple years won’t we…

                      Reply
                    3. We’ll start by boiling away the fat.

                      “If you don’t like a retro based car, don’t buy one!!”

                      I won’t…and so will less and less every year until retro dies. Simple.

                      “He’s also hundred percent correct with the 350 Z and the Miata Go ahead and do a wiki on it.”

                      What part of the 370Z and the MX-5 look retro?

                      If the next words your would type was “reminesiant of small British sports car”, then that isn’t anymore retro than Volvo C30 is as shootbrake not unlike the Chevy Nomad of the 50’s.

                      Get real. The Z and the MX-5 aren’t retro. They aren’t going to load up on chrome anytime soon, and they aren’t retro in name because I can alway point to the Suburban. It’s been around since 1933, but you don’t see it looking like it was from 1933.

                      An old nameplate doesn’t mean retro. Retro is just sheetmetal, nothing more.

                      “Could I ask you what Awesome names would you use?”

                      I dunno. Ask GM’s product planners.

                      Idiot.

                      “You’re talking about heritage being intangible? just walk up to an HHR and touch the roof….. there you go, you just touched heritage.”

                      No, I touched stamped sheetmetal. What the hell makes you think it’s ‘heritage’?

                      You’re overthing sheetmetal as something more abstractive when it really is sheetmetal.

                      “What sort of baggage would Grand National, Type-T or GNX Carry I can’t wait to hear your response on this one!”

                      Everything bad about the 80’s, really. Pick a winner.

                      I mean if you’re trying to get Buick to rub sholders with established luxury sports cars with a hypothetical GN, you wouldn’t advertise it by drawing on a past that none of the luxury sports car buyers care about.

                      I mean does a daytrader care about Buick’s NASCAR efforts from 30 years ago? No, in the exact same capacity he doesn’t care about BMW’s racing efforts from 30 years ago too.

                      You, Arch’s, and F-body seem to think that the upper quarter of society, the people with the corner offices and 70K+ salries, the people would would look at an M3 or M5 as a toy, would also watch NASCAR and care about it’s history.

                      That buyer you’re thinking of simply doesn’t exist, and even if they did, they are a fraction of nothing percent.

                      The only counter argument I’m hearing is “the little guy needs luxury sports too! Bring back the GN to make them happy!”. If Buick was to respond to that kind of a demand, you could pretty much kick Buick’s public image back into the 80’s because no wealthy buyer will look at them in a favourable light today.

                      GM doesn’t need a Lincoln.

                      “Every brand has the right to proceed the way they would like to,”

                      No car brand is sentient and self-aware. Please get that part straight.

                      A car brand is directed via product developers, engineers, and marketers, and execs.

                      “The first word of the title of this post is the word RUMORMILL.”

                      I’m well aware of that. This whole ordeal hangs on the idea that someone dares to disagree with others opinion…especally ones that is unsubstanated, even the rumors themselves.

                      Reply
  18. I don’t agree with this move at all. While I believe that the GNX nameplate should return it should not be a rear drive sedan. It should be an all-wheel drive Regal coupe with a turbo V6. Sounds familar? I think the GN should represent current design and engineering themes and not rely on an older formula. Buick should not be allowed to create direct competition for either Cadillac (luxury performance) or Chevrolet (value performance).

    Reply
    1. Richard — I agree. I’m assuming that said Buicks would be priced (substantially?) below the related ATS… but as I’ve said before, taking Buick in the performance-lux direction is unnecessary when Cadillac is already gunning for that spot.

      Reply
  19. how about to get buick as a premium performance?

    Reply
  20. Rumormill: Buick Plans To Reintroduce Grand National, T-Type, GNX On RWD Alpha Architecture

    Sounds like a damn good idea.

    Reply
  21. i’m all for performance and performance by-product.this must be a step in the right direction.

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  22. Alex and I have talked about performance cars from Buick and I understand why it’s not reasonable for Buick to have such cars. Buick should scoop up Lexus owners who have left them because of the direction they’re headed in. But I still believe that Buick should have a high HP, RWD vehicle in their line up. It’s not going to hurt anything and will bring people to Buick. Changing an emblem isn’t going to work. Bringing back the GN, GNX, and T type are will.

    Reply
  23. I’m on the fence with this. Yes to a RWD car for Buick, No to it being a perfomance sedan. This is Caddilac’s territory, and before you say that GM has had cars that intersected and competed with eachother; remember that GM needed to be bailed out. Alex had a good point with how VW Audi group do things.

    Reply
    1. Exactly. There’s no need for Buick to do Cadillac’s job. If the best of the luxury performance is going from the world’s best luxury automakers, then GM should send Cadillac to meet the challenge.

      Cadillac needs to rebuild its image. It’s been an uphill stuggle for over 10 years now and even lauching the V-series was a ballsy risk that still needs to pay off on a global scale, not just in North America.

      There is simply no good reason to undermine all of the efforts of A&S and the V-series with alternatives that aren’t in standing with the worlds best…something Buick hasn’t ever been.

      A hi-po luxury alpha isn’t Buick’s fight, it’s Cadillac’s.

      Reply
  24. If you believe a GN from Buick would be stepping into Caddy’s territory, then you are blind. It might step into Chevy’s territory, but not Caddy. Why? Because while Buick is a so called “luxury” brand, it’s no where near the same caliber of luxury that Caddy is on. I don’t feel as of my GS is all that luxurious. The seats are comfortable, but they ain’t no cloud like comfort. I put the car in GS mode and the ride is almost as bad as my stret tuned MINI Cooper S was. Non forgiving and tooth filling releasing. That’s what I like. If Buick did this with the GS, so there is no reason why they can’t make a GN.

    Reply
  25. Buick is not going to be a “luxury” marque.

    Cadillac is charged with competing with the high end, expensive marques. And they should do that to maximize profit for GM. They have chosen to appear as cutting edge styling with sporty handling. Mercedes also competes in the same “luxury” arena but they are not known for either performance/sportiness or cutting edge styling. Yet they still compete in the high end. BMW is performance but not cutting edge styling. Perhaps cutting edge styling is not the right term. Perhaps it is “in your face” styling? Yet they all compete up there. Lexus also does and they are not known for either styling or performance. Yet they all sell vehicles at the high end just fine. And they all have performance versions.

    Then there is the bottom. Chevrolet, Toyota, Honda, Ford. This segment is the affordable end yet there is a huge range of styling and performance attributes. Chevrolet has both affordable performance vehicles and just plain affordable vehicles. And again they all have performance versions. Some even stretch a bit far with their performance models and we the consumers shout YEA!!!!

    Unlike other corporations GM is “blessed” with a third, primarily car, division. Long ago GM had a car for every purse and the primary differences were content as you walked up the ladder. Chevrolet had the inexpensive interiors and no power steering while the Cadillac had everything. And the others fell in line between them. Pontiac was not the sports car division then, just a step up from Chevrolet. Buick was next in line. More content/power but still cheaper than a Cadillac.

    Buick now has the middle ground between Chevrolet and Cadillac. And it is a huge middle ground. The compact Cruze starts at $17,000 while the compact ATS starts at $33,000. And lo and behold the compact Verano starts at about $23,000. Not exactly in the middle but not far off (but go ahead and content them all up and see where you end up). Mid size Malibu starts at $22k with the Regal at $27k and the CTS at $39k.

    So Buick has to compete in this middle ground. They are not going to be selling $33,000 (base) compact vehicles. They are not going to be selling $65k midsize performance vehicles either. They will be known for their Buick attributes of a quiet, well appointed affordable vehicle. Their styling will be muscular as it always has been. They will continue to have powerful powertrains. This is what Buick is about. The old man issue was because that is where Buick was pigeon holed when there were too many choices in the market place and GM had too many divisions.

    There is no reason Buick cannot meet their historical attributes and not have a powerful RWD vehicle. It must be priced affordable for its content and segment. It must be quiet. It must be muscular. It must have premium appointments.

    Reply
  26. Sorry about the long comment.

    And on the portholes vs. cylinders comment. I had another long research paper made up about the history of portholes in Buick products but will not publish that here. It is not about number of cylinders but the placement of the model in the Buick lineup. In the past it was the Super or Electra with 8 portholes, while all the lower models got 6.

    I believe the only vehicle in Buick history that did not follow this rule was the Lucerne CXL with the V8. The CXS (Super) was available above this model.

    IF it was portholes that denoted the engine why does the 4 cylinder Verano have 6 holes? Why does the 4 cylinder Regal have 6? And the 4 cylinder LaCrosse?

    Reply
    1. Yes, when they FIRST started doing ventiports, it did distinguish models. However, the Lucerne had 4 on each side for its V8, the Enclave had 3 on each side for its V6, and the LaCrosse had 3 on each side for its 6 cylinder. As far as the LaCrosse having a four banger, they just decided money wise not to make it only have two on each side. My Regal GS has two on each side. According to Buick, at this point they are using ventiports as a heritage tradition, but keeping them consistent with each other. This came from Buick who I frequently ask questions to as I’m a David Buick fan.

      Reply
      1. Who are you talking to at Buick?

        Reply
        1. Most of the time through their customer service. Other times I’ve gotten in contact with Randy Fox, Buick Communications guy.

          Reply
          1. Randy been gone almost 3 years. But he would have been qualified to answer this question. Very surprised by the answer. But things change.

            Reply
  27. * avid Buick fan.

    Reply
  28. @alex, I bought a Regla GS becuase I wanted sport and luxury at an affordable price. Cadillac is too much money, Chevys are not luxury, this is where Buick comes in in my mind and for that reason can do fine with “sport cars”, the just need to make sure they are more luxury than a chevy and less money than a cadillac. Lets face it people pay big money for cadillac’s because they are Cadillacs, once i drove a Lacrosse I would never consider a CTS, do you mind the competition there?

    Reply
  29. wow professor you pulled the wikki card go go your self a favor and wikki the 350z and miata it was nissan bringing back the spirit of the first Z and the miata was mazdas way of bringing back the classic compact convertibles like the mg and the alfa spyder…did i ever clearly state those were retro styled? no there you go again making up stuff since you clearly seem to know everything yet you had to wikki love. and yes i am crazy for trying to share an opinion with a cro mag. your own reply states ” I’m no neurologist, but I’m certian neuroscience is well on it’s way to quantifing love, and every other emotion you think is beyond quantification.”
    Well im sure heratage will be quantified also…. perhaps you should see your own doctor you seem to have some kind of dominance personality disorder mixed with megalomania….theres pills and therapy for that.

    Reply
    1. Page two…lovely.

      “nissan bringing back the spirit of the first Z”

      In a car that looks nothing like the 240Z. Again, it isn’t retro.

      Funny, you’ll pour scorn on wikipdia when you use it, but when I show that love is just a neurochemical reaction, you get yout panties in a knot because it scares you.

      Wait until your learn about the “spirit” in that 350Z quote; someone will have to break it to you that there isn’t such a thing as a spirit.

      “mazdas way of bringing back the classic compact convertibles like the mg and the alfa spyder”

      The MX-5 isn’t retro becasue it doesn’t look retro. Sure, it revived the segment, but the MX-5 never looked retro when it was launched.

      Remember what I said about the Volvo C30 and the Chevy Nomad? I can just as easily say the C30 revived the shooting brake and be as wrong as you calling the C30 retro in the same way you call the MX-5 retro.

      Being inspirered by something old and then making a modern interpetation of it isn’t retro.

      Retro is just sheetmetal. Nothing more.

      You’ll be hearing that line a lot as I know this will spill into the coming week.

      “Well im sure heratage will be quantified also”

      Nope. It’s purely abstractive, like tradition and admirability…and faith.

      “perhaps you should see your own doctor you seem to have some kind of dominance personality disorder mixed with megalomania….theres pills and therapy for that.”

      If you’re getting bent out of shape from a disagreement on the internet, then I suggest you find someting better to occupy your time.

      This may be a struggle for you, but this ordeal is a cake for me.

      Reply
  30. I think that Buick could be a luxury performance car, but would need a smooth ride and fewer horsepower. You know, be more focused on the luxury and slightly more efficient aspect of things. The T-Type, GNX, and the Regal could be the same car. The T-Type and GNX would be package options on the Regal, and could only be around for one generation as a limited production/special edition models. The Regal would be on the Alpha platform and would have a 175 HP 2.0L four cylinder, the T-Type would come with a 245HP 3.6L V6, and the GNX (lower production numbers) would come with the new LT1 rated at 300HP. Or, if the ATS-V (we all know there will be one eventually) has 400HP the Buick GNX could be set up with 345HP…. Of course, there would be an all-wheel drive option for the Regal. Yes, it’s a bit risky, but I think it’s worth trying for two or three years.

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  31. Reply
  32. Recently I was at a Buick Test drive drives & Food & Wine digest chiefs . As I was test driving a Buick Regal I was asking the GM REP sitting next to me

    Reply
  33. I can say that I am the proud owner of a 1986 Buick Grand National and run it just in the summer months.and these rumors of bringing the GN and the GNX back are a much needed addition to the Buick line up.
    I look forward to seeing this rumor materialize,hopefully in time for the 2015-2016 year. A twin turbo,Intercooled in the 400-425-hp range w/AWD would give you & Buick something special to be proud of.
    My present car has been extensively done over @ Cotton’s Performance and produces 640 HP. At my old age (77) I still like the feel of plenty of power under my foot and I use it whenever I can.

    Reply
  34. FUJITSU uusim invertertehnoloogia võimaldab nüüd ühendada hea ja säästlikkuse ning kasvatada mugava töökeskkonna abil töötajate jõudlust.

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