As the Cadillac ATS launch begins, and thumbs-up reviews pour in, eyes once again begin looking forward towards the car’s future and other variants it could possibly offer. The most important of which, is the all-but-official ATS-V — which is expected to be a red, white and blue middle finger to Germany’s best-truth-in-ultimate-driving-machines-or-nothing compact performance models. But how the compact performance Caddy will do it is still a mystery.
For instance, it’s long been rumored that an ATS-V would cradle a twin-turbocharged 3.6L LFX V6 engine — a counter-punch to the rumored triple-turboed I-6 that is said to come from the all-new F80 BMW M3 expected to launch within a year or so. And as that seems like a very real possibility, there is another possibility for the ATS-V: a bellowing small-block V8. According to sources, such an engine can fit into the ATS’ engine bay.
So, what are the benefits of bringing an ATS-V to market with a next-generation small block? For starters, an all-aluminum V8 block would be less complex than a turbocharged setup. There’s a lot less valvetrain, and a low inertia of rotating mass. Small-blocks also have fantastic power for their weight, putting less of an emphasis on horsepower per liter. And let’s face it, small blocks are easy to modify. And believe it or not, it’s lighter than a twin-turbo V6.
To gauge on how much a twin-turboed LFX V6 would weigh, a similarly proportioned 3.5L Ford Ecoboost V6 tips the scales at 449 pounds. That’s not including the intercooling system. Oppositely, the GM Performance Parts catalog says that the LS3 engine weighs in at a lighter 415 pounds out of the crate, and there’s no reason to doubt that the Gen V LS engines will weigh even less.
So, why bother with a TTV6 at all? One of the most obvious answers is gobs and gobs of low-end torque compared to a naturally aspirated engine, giving the driver a sensation of propulsion off the line that could only be found in the high revs of a plain V8. And some people prefer the high-tech sound of the spools spinning up to the primal rumble of a V8.
So, which camp do you represent? Would you rather see a the ATS-V with an advanced TT V6? Or a visceral V8? Discuss in the comment section below, and participate in our poll!
Comments
Keep the weight down and make it a twin turbo four.
a big ole v/8 baby
I’m not 100% convinced that a V8 would weigh less than a TTV6. If the crate engine that you speak of is a long block (block and heads, with drivetrain) it will still lack auxiliary stuff like pumps, and so on. Also, I’m not sure if the GM TTV6 weighs the same as the Ford unit. Another issue is cost. Would the Corvette engine be cheaper to build than a TTV6? Great question. Either engine will do for me though. But if we’re talking about modifications, the turbo is the easier option, in my opinion. Turning up boost is pretty easy (even without swapping in bigger turbos). Modding a V8 is going to require going inside the engine and even then you won’t be seeing the kinds of increases that you can see with a turbo upgrade.
Both have been tested for both fuel economy and performance the clear leader has been discovered and will make production next year I cannot tell you at this time which is the winner but either way all future customers will be very happy, remember caddy is going to be the leader this is the most important factor in determining the engine for V series. it will be fun!!!
If fuel economy (an unfortunate requirement for a V) is a determining factor, then it pretty much has to be the TTV6, however, to be a leader a V8 would be unique in this class. Either way – I like FUN and can’t wait to get behind the wheel of one!!
I won’t be so sure… Let’s look at the known numbers.
The 3.6 Naturally Aspirated engine posts 19 / 28 mpg on the ATS 3.6. We can expect the 3.6 Bi-turbo to be worse than that given the reduced compression ratio and exhaust back pressure that its turbochargers mandate. How much worse is hard to say, but at the minimum one can expect a ~1 mpg reduction. This is a small price to pay for 420 hp / 430 lb-ft, but it puts the V6 at 18 / 27 mpg or worse.
The 5th Gen LT1 V8 is designed to be more fuel efficient than the previous (4th) generation LS3 and L99 engines. That previous gen 6.2 liter Port Injected V8 posts 16/25 mpg in the 3850 lbs Camaro SS 6-speed Automatic. With Direct Injection, VVT and cylinder deactivation, the LT1 will be better than the aforementioned figures unless GM has completely failed at making any fuel economy improvements. So the baseline for the V8 will be 17/26 (a 1 mpg improvement) or better.
Worse than 18 / 27 mpg
vs
Better than 17 / 26 mpg
Sounds like a toss up to me.
Of course I want the exotic engine the high compression direct injected aluminum V-8. Everybody and his uncle Adolf has a turbo 6. Save the twin turbo V6 for the Malibu and Impala.
Dont care as long as it is better than an M3.
I’m not sure of any specifics of the new Gen V smallblock V8 currently in development, but I think I read somewhere that it’s supposed to ditch the pushrod formula for some sort of variable-valve timing, DOHC DI wizardry. If this is true, I’d LOVE to see a smaller-displacement, all-aluminum, ultra-high revving version used in the ATS-V when the time comes.
Well the 3.6TT is already in the pipe line so it’s probably going to go in the ATS-V (debut in the ATS-V would be best for the engines launch), and I’ll bet there will be a ‘Street’ model of the Camaro that it makes it’s way in, or Z/28.
I have doubts the V8 is lighter. The new LFX is lighter than the LTT and even with the new 5.5L V8 destined for the base C7 corvette I still think the V6 is a lighter unit.
You guys have driven the ATS right? is there even room in the bay for a V8?
The new 5.5L is what I’d like to see in it, and at 440hp it would compete with the M3, but the TT would offer the same, and possibly better MPG, and like you said, that nice low end torque that can make a world of difference.
The gen 5 V8 will most likely be no heavier than the v6. And if it is it will be in such a miniscule way as to not even matter.
As far as will it fit in the ATS? If an OHC v6 can fit, then a pushrod small block V8 will fit. ALL pushrod V8s are by virtue of their design are narrower than OHC v6s and V8s. as well as shorter in overall height. In many instances they are also narrower too than OHC v6s and so close to the overall width of the average OHC 4 cylinder as to make the difference irrelevant.
The LS3 is 28.19 inches tall. 27.95 length from flywheel to water pump. And 27.75 inches wide with exhaust manifolds. Now everybody open your hood get a tape measure and start planing your engine swap.
I’m sure 99% of the people that buy Cadillacs are not worried about fuel economy , it’s a Caddy, the American dream car that says Iv’e made it, & nothing says it better than the rumble ( a quiet one because it’s a Caddy) of a V8 !
It would be nice to see them offer both engines in there.. I know the next Camaro and CTS will use the same platform just extended, so I’m guess that the V8 will fit. But I think it would be nice if they offer a variety with ATS-V. I know they are already offering 3 engines, only 2 should have been there but anyways.. I like the idea of a TTV6 because of the low end torque, and knowing the competition they will be using force induction so Cadillac will most likely follow that. On the other hand nothing really takes the place of a V8, and having a Gen V engine in that would be pretty sweet.
Hmmm, I favor a v8, but something is telling me that the character of the car, as well as the fact the next gen Camaro will share the same chassis, and the fact the CTS-V is V8 Bruiser will open the door for GM to do something unique and go FI on the V6.
Also, I feel if GM is really going to take Cadillac in a new direction, it would be cool to go all out with the “perceived” sophisticated route of small displacement F.I.
I will remind everyone that if the turbo V6 option wins out, the ATS V will be more expensive overall to mod. Generally with turbo cars manufactures use one of two methods:
They overbuild everything from the engine internals to the drivetrain
They subscribe to the “it’s adequate” method of engineering
Either way the end user ends up paying higher prices in the long hall, either because the factory parts are top shelf and cost more to replace when broken, or the factory parts are sh#t and must be upgraded to handle desired mods.
Hopefully GM will subscribe to the prior philosophy.
this is exciting I love cadillac and will be in favour of whatever they chose. i’m just glad the V made it i was worried for a second or two a while back but the people at caddy know what they’re doing
Just beat the M3!
Do the V8… All Alum… Keep the weight down , plus it can be A test for more all alum V8’s to come. ,. For the new truck line …the bigger cadillac coming out late 2014… Also AMG 63… BMW M3-5-6-7. What ever they try we have some to keep ourself’s in the game… Plus it would be giving us the (buyer) ; the chance to pick out what we want to drive…..right now we got 3.6 /v6 on must of the new cars . (take it or leave it )
The ATS can have the TTv6, leave the v8 for the Camaro
I say small block. The ELR should give Cadillac enough CAFE room for another V8.
A small block V8 equipped to the ats is such a scary thought and I would pay whatever they want for it a TTV6 is fine but i want the growl of a V8. PEOPLE THIS SHOULDN’T BE A DISCUSSION
My vote is for the TTV6.
The CTS-V does the hi-po V8 dance beautifly. It would be redundant to offer the ATS-V with a V8, as that would canabalize sales of the CTS-V.
Cadillac (and GM) needs to show the world that’s its V cars mean business on all fronts against all challengers and with different powertrains.
The V cars should be the best with MANY different powertrains, not just being the best in one kind of powertrain.
Why can’t we have the best of both worlds? Small displacement (4.0 liter) twin turbo V-8.
Problem solved!!!
I would love to see both. A small-block RWD V8 for the no-frills-thrills, and a sophisticated AWD TTV6 that nobody saw coming, and will turn the heads of many young enthusiasts.
A V8. For the simple reason that I don’t want to be walking down the street picking up pieces of my exploded turbo. Those suckers turn at ridiculously high RPMs and have suspect durabilty. Hope you have deep pockets come repair time.
As much as Id love to see a small block in this thing, I think ATS-V needs to have a TTV6. If the only goal was performance, Cadillac couldnt go wrong either way, but Cadillac’s V series cars stand for refined performance and the TTV6 will have the PERCEPTION of being more refined.
TTV6 for ATS-V and V8 for CTS-V keeps the model hierarchy intact.
It strikes me that a TTV6 wouldn’t have all that power off the line since the turbos would have no air in them. Unless you set them to auto intake, the turbo lag could get ugly.
That being said, I fancy the engineering philosophy “simpler is better” and that means the small block V8 is the choice to make. It’s a proven tech, and would require less effort over all.
have you driven a modern turbo engine? lag is almost non-existent, especially in TT setups (ecoboost)
I completely agree with Manoli Katakis!!!
As seen in the Z32 Nissan 300zxTT, the Twin Turbo setup is heavy! None of the 240sx guys swap in a 3.0lTT, they “mostly” all use the LS1 and 2 for light weight and perfectly balanced power with drivability.
ATS-V rwd NEEDS to be an all aluminum V8! 🙂