Chevrolet Spin MPV Production Will Commence In Indonesia26
Like every car in the world, the originally-reported Chevrolet Spin needs a manufacturing plant to assemble it, and the new MPV will call the 11-hectare Indonesian Bekasi plant home. The Spin will be a five- or seven-passenger MPV depending on your configuration preferences likely to use the modified version of the Gamma II platform; we expect other plants around the world — such as GM’s operations in Brazil — to commence making the vehicle in the future.
Chevy describes the new MPV as “more-than-expected value with details and levels of execution usually associated with more expensive vehicles.” That being said, this is a car that may be the first new car a family has ever owned, period. It definitely won’t be a luxury car, but certainly a step up from nothing.
In Indonesia, Chevrolet currently sells the Spark, Orlando, Colorado, Cruze, and seven-passenger Captiva.
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Hey GM Authority ! Brad B. here (that Ford guy) I like what I see on the Chevy Spin, I feel it is what the Sonic should have been from the start. With the HHR gone, and for some lame reason Canada only gets the Orlando we need this vehicle. I saw where the General is playing with the Cruze 5-door. Thats ok, but us wagon guys love the humble stationwagon. I just spent $1K upgrading my ’05 Malibu Maxx. I write for Ford but in our three car stable the Malibu has a soft spot in all our hearts. Come on GM give us the Cruze wagon, not a make believe 5-door model.
wait so is this on the gamma platform?
This is what we’ve been told, but it’s not official, so we could be wrong.
This is a special (cheaper) version of Gamma for developing markets.
I would buy a Cruze wagon without a second thought, especially if it were a quality diesel like certain cars from VW. But don’t expect to see one. Normally wagons come with roof racks, which makes them too much like a CUV. Therefore, a Cruze wagon would cut into Equinox sales. That would be bad for GM’s bottom line. Am I making sense?
What you’re referring to is a short-term issue and I completely agree with you… in the short term. As GM implements its new strategy, the issues of not competing in certain obvious segments will fade. Have a look at this:
I dont see Focus sales, which are overwhelmingly Hatch cut into escape sales, why should it be any different with GM.
Here’s the car I’m looking for ….
1. It should get more than 35 MPG on the highway without the need for turbocharging. (Fuel efficiency has become a national security issue that is costing us much more than just the price of the fuel.)
2. It should be well-appointed inside, with soft-touch surfaces, a nice, comfortable armrest, and maybe even some fancy chrome.
3. It should be a hatch, to utilize interior space effectively as well as minimize the footprint.
4. It should have rear seats that fold nice and flat without fuss.
5. You should be able to order an upgraded engine for more spirited driving, but the base engine should still do 0-60 in less than 9 seconds. (Merging at speed is a safety issue.)
6. It should be able to carry an 18 foot sea kayak on the roof. The rack, from the dealer, should not be clipped on, but instead bolted to the roof. (Clips are ugly and damage both the door seals and paint.)
7. You should be able to order it with lots of a la carte options, making each car unique, and the manufacturer should be able to make tons of money on them.
8. You should be able to park it in tight places, and execute U-turns with ease.
9. The car should handle like a go-cart, with nice firm steering that has plenty of feel.
10. You should be able to get a manual or automatic transmission.
11. The car should be made in America by an American company.
OK then. Why can’t I buy a car like this? — fun to drive, efficient, and plenty of utility. Well, truth is, I can, and have. Every item in this list is a check except #11. I even left out some goodies, like an optional convertible. This car is all over the roads where I live despite some people claiming that it is a “niche” market, and now there are larger and even more profitable variants. I see many others on my way to work every day, almost without exception. Of course the car I’m referring to is the MINI Cooper.
So here’s the question guys…why won’t GM make a car like this, much less offer the closest cars that it does make to this to Americans? I say they are afraid to, because a car this flexible and desirable would temporarily hurt the sales of other cars in the line up that are mediocre. The long-term effect though, of course, would be very positive and profitable.
The gut-wrenching thing is that we need to give up on many items within the list to employ Americans, support an American company, and live with the security of knowing we can get most parts from within the borders. This isn’t about bashing GM. It’s about trying to get GM to meet my needs, meet the apparent needs of many others, and be successful over the long term without more bailouts. The other American companies are failing in much the same way.
I am one of those proclaiming that the Cooper, which you so eloquently described, is a “niche” vehicle, I couldnt find the sales figures for just the Cooper, but Mini sales overall including all their 6 models is about 6000 units a month, so im guessing that the Cooper accounts for 1500-2000 of those sales, thats about Volt sales number, and the Cooper is not a new car, but a well known and respected car that has established itself in the market place. Oh, and its sales are declining. Now how is that not “niche”?
“a car this flexible and desirable”
Really? Can this car comfortably fit for people, which I think is the average family size of a family in the U.S. Can it fit an 8×4 board? Is it universally considered handsome, inside and out? Is it affordable? Is it fuel efficient(where did you get the 35mpg number, I think the real number is 30)? And so on…
The answer to all of the above is no.
“security of knowing we can get most parts from within the borders”
This is a different topic so I wont dwell on this, but I will say the some of the most important components of virtually every mass produced car, American or not, are produced in China and Japan, and those would be the electronics, and since our cars are so computerized now, without those parts your car is useless.
“The other American companies are failing in much the same way.”
How can you say that? Look around you and open your eyes, they arent out of the woods yet, but they far from failing. And do you really believe that building a Mini like car will be the silver bullet that will forever ensure profitability and success? Get Real.
I think this is a case of someone desperately wanting a car that no one really wants to build or buy, and then trying to justify their desire as everyone desire.
Look, I would love to have a mini like car from GM as well, but I recognize it may not be the best course for GM, especially when there are so many more important segments GM needs to fill rather than a “niche” vehicle.
I mentioned the MINI only because it’s what I’m driving and because it takes the concept to an extreme. It’s a 2006 base model (not the S) so it does get 36 MPH highway. That is my experience on flat roads.
You mention seating for four. Well that’s one of the problems. American companies make every vehicle to suit a family. But what of all the empty nesters out there, singles, or others who just want something that is fuel efficient without giving up performance and handling? Take a look at the roads during rush hour. How many people are in most of the cars? It’s a vast waste.
Just for the sake of argument I will concede that the MINI is niche. But what about a car like the Mazda 3? Is that niche? Read through the list again. The Mazda 3 achieves on every one of the things I listed except perhaps the options for the upgraded interior and a la carte stuff. Can you seriously tell me that the 3 isn’t mainstream? If GM produced the 3 and CX-5, made in America, I can assure you that they would be hot commodities. I think Americans would buy American if they didn’t have to concede so much. Ford is getting close, if you’re hauling passengers instead of cargo. But otherwise the American offerings are devoid of small, well-made cars that are fun to drive, efficient, and flexible.
Right there with you on that one: if Americans had the ability to buy American and not concede (in price, features, quality, etc.), then I hope the vast majority would buy American.
The Mazda3 is a great car; so is the CX-5. But the latter looks like a clown while the former is an improvement, but still makes me want to punch it in the grille a couple of times. Can you tell I don’t like the styling?
In due time, we will get better products in the same segments from GM (Chevy). As I’ve mentioned before, we’re in this strange state of transition; let the transition end — let the product offensive begin — and we’ll all have some very nice things to say!
I will concede that the Mazda3 is not niche, but only because it only comes in sedan form as well. And its great that you get 36, but is that the official epa mpg?
The real problem is that while cars have only one or two people in them most of the time, youre not going to buy another car, especially in this economy, for that rare weekend where your taking other people(nephew , friends, coworkers, grandkid, parent, ) or just need more space for your stuff.
But if the Mazda3 was as great as youve made it out to be, why isnt it a market leader? You want GM to build a car that isnt even in the top 5 in sales(I think), especially when GM, unlike Mazda, is structured to be a volume automaker.
Definitely with you on that one, Id like to think if Americans had a choice between two identical cars and one was foreign and one was american branded, wed all pick the American
And I think a cruze hatch would fulfill almost all of the things on your list, which, last I checked, EVERYONE wants GM to build, so an all new car like a Mini isnt necessary.
I think the official MPG for my MINI was 34-35 highway. It’s a manual. My wife and I can ride in it with a small child in the back. If we need more space we take our Saturn L300 wagon. Most families now own more than one car. So having a small, efficient car that is fun to drive for commuting makes a lot of sense.
As I eluded, the Mazda 3 would be the market leader if GM made it. It isn’t the leader because it’s a product of a small, foreign company. SkyActive is also very new, but it seems so far ahead of what GM tends to deliver that I have to think a comparable Chevy is more than one generation away. Having said that, the Mazda 3 may never be the market leader because of people like me, who want to buy American and just might give up some things to do so. I would be very likely to choose a Cruze hatch over the 3 if it could nicely accommodate my boat. (Wife won’t let me use the L300.)
But the concern I have with a Cruze hatch or wagon is that GM will likely overlook something. We have the Sonic and now the Encore as evidence. The European companies, and now even Mazda and Subaru, know how to do some little things right that really make the car suitable for the outdoorsman. Did you know, for example, that like the Mazda 3, a Jetta sedan has bolt stubs beneath the rubber rain gutter strips to attach a dealer roof rack? No need for ugly clips that scratch the paint and wear out the seals.
I write this because I want people in the American auto industry to know how they can improve. We’re not talking about big things that are expensive here. Just need to be a little smarter and the market gets that much larger.
The problem is that 90% of Americans do not know how to or want to drive a stick, ans since were talking about a mass market car, something you argue is not “niche”, we have to give priority to the Automatic, and the Automatics mpg.
Believe me, if the Mazda3 is one generation ahead of the very good cruze, it would be the market leader.
“the Mazda 3 may never be the market leader because of people like me, who want to buy American and just might give up some things to do so”
Really? That never encouraged Americans to buy cars like the cavalier/cobalt/aveo, and that hasnt seem to held back the Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Jetta, Elantra and others who are all ahead of the 3 in sales and are foreign. Come on, thats making lame excuses for the Mazda3, its foreign, and you know Americans, they only buy American, never mind the 60+% market share of foreign automakers in America.
On that note, I think Americans are the most unloyal to their auto industry, which I count as a good thing, in our time of globablization, the days Americans alone can sustain a company are almost over, and we recognize that successful companies only happen when their products are the BEST, not because their American, we obviously have a little bias towards American cars, as we should, but not enough for us to go buy an inferior car just because its American.
As for the Cruze hatch, well just have to wait and see if GM messes anything up, but I dont think they will, because unlike the Encore armrest thing, the Cruze hatch will not be a new car, it will just be variant of the Cruze of which they have been taking feedback for the past few years.
I totally agree with you that there alot of small little things that the American auto industry messes up on, mistakes that wouldnt cost alot to fix, but there improving and I think we have to be a bit more patient with GM and Ford (dont consider Chrysler American anymore), there still in the middle of a huge turnaround that has not yet been completed, once things settle down in a few years, then I will expect a bit more from them.
Babersher, you are comparing the old Mazda 3 with the other cars whose updates came out a year or two earlier. The new one is way better because it is a step advancement in technology. Last year’s 3 and some of this year’s models are not SkyActive. There is a huge difference. Look at the performance data and reviews rather than sales numbers that are now obsolete.
As for the transmission issue, today’s automatics — dry clutch and partial dry clutch (as is the 3 automatic) actually do as good or better than the manuals, which often are geared quite as tall, being oriented towards the driving enthusiast or those on a budget. The gripe I have with GM is that, unlike Ford, Mazda, and several others, we’re seeing no advancements over the old torque-converter transmissions, which drain fuel, as you have noted. We’re also not seeing direct injection. Does GM know something that the others don’t about turbo charging, or is the reverse true? Why are others using the turbo only for their performance models? With regard to direct injection I heard one GM exec say they “wanted to hold the cost down,” but others were offering it in the same class.
You said that the 3 would be niche if it were not for the fact that it is offered as a sedan, this just right after you said that the Ford Focus was “overwhelmingly” hatch. Surely the Focus isn’t “niche.” The new 3 is every bit as good as the Focus, and for my needs, even better.
Oh, but isnt the Mazda3 a whole generation ahead of the cruze, as you claim, then why hasnt it blown up the sales charts, like the Cruze did when it first came out. I mean we arent talking about the Mazda3 being a bit better right, its a whole generation ahead!
I looked at late 2011 and 2012 sales, which I wouldnt consider “obselete”.And I dont care about good reviews and neither does Mazda if its not translating into profits and sales.
I wasnt talking about todays automatics, I was talking about an automatic in the 2006 Mnini you have and how such a car cant return 35mpg.
Ok, I admit I was being a bit contradictory, so Ill concede that the Mazda3 is in no way “niche”.
Again if its better than the Focus and a generation ahead of the Cruze, why isnt it selling so well, why isnt such an amazing, technologically superior, and so desirable car selling like hotcakes?
And please forgive my sarcasm.
This has been a discussion, or so I thought, about the merging of performance and features of a certain class of cars. Now if you’re going to use sales data as the basis for saying one car is better than another, then you have to way in all of the other factors that impact sales, like advertising, available dealerships, incentives, warranty (that won’t cost until the future), and dare I say — personal bias, which might even be driven by country of origin. Not sure what data you are looking at or even if you are looking at data, but if it includes last year, didn’t Japan have a disaster that dramatically slowed their auto industry?
But, if you’re going to claim that the Cruze is better than the 3 by looking at U.S. sales data, why not compare the two with sales data within Japanese borders? What would that reveal when each was first introduced into the market?
Why not get back to the discussion, which was a look at actual features of the cars and their performance numbers, and how they meet the needs of different types of people. When we do that we’ll find that one is better than the other in some ways, and vice versa. For me the 3 is better, for all of the reasons I listed above, that appeared to be a description of a MINI.
Maybe I’m the niche. I drive more than 20 miles to work. I’m nearing retirement. I don’t have kids. I enjoy driving when the road and car enable a good experience. I like to sea kayak on weekends. My cargo is usually either my wife or my paddling gear….. Oh come to think of it, all the people in my paddling club are probably niche too.
You misunderstand me, the point I was trying to make was that GM’s priority should not be to build a car that checks the boxes of your list for a few reasons.
1. That kind of car is a “niche” car, one that wont be a volume seller or attract many new customers to GM.
2. GM is in the middle of a huge transformation, one that has left many gaping holes in their lineup, so their “opportunity cost” would be better served by building a car like the cruze hatch that checks some of the boxes of the list, but not a new one that checks all of them.
3. You cited the Mini and the Mazda3 as cars that fit the bill for you, and since GM is structured to be a volume company, and these cars are not volume sellers, GM should be especially cautious about building a car just like the above two.
I know these reasons are kind of redundant but I think they help clarify my point.
My point of disparaging the Mazda3 and Mini with their dismal sales numbers was not to say that the above cars are inferior or superior, we all know better sales do not make a better car(corolla anyone), but rather to prove that right now, GM does not have the time or resources to build a car just like the above, maybe in a couple of years, but not now.
Are you reading my posts thoroughly? I said “Late 2011” meaning the last quarter of 2011, where the Japanese auto industry had mostly recovered from the effects of the tsunami.
And I didnt claim anywhere the cruze was better than the Mazda3, but rather that the Mazda3 is not vastly superior to the Cruze as you had it made it out to be.
And since the U.S is the most profitable and second most volume region for automakers and that we are Americans and this is a U.S site, I think our conversation should be centered on the U.S, not Japan or some other region.
I completely agree with you on this:
“how they meet the needs of different types of people. When we do that we’ll find that one is better than the other in some ways, and vice versa”
You seem to take “niche” the wrong way, there is nothing wrong with being a “niche buyer” or a “niche” automaker, “niche” is just something that doesnt appeal to everyone.
Too summarize, the point of my engaging in this rather long winded conversation was simply that a car that meets the requirements of your list is not a car that appeals to everyone, so that GM should not build such a car till they have the time and resources to do so, which I believe they do not at this point.
“driven by country of origin”
What are you trying to say?
Oh and since you seem to doubt that I even looked at some data and you seem to think I am making everything up, Ill provide some sales data links tomorrow, though since GMA takes time to approve the post of links, it might take a little while for the links to show up,
The crux of the question is whether or not building a copy of the 2012 3 hatch would be good for GM. My guess is you will present a link to vehicles of the 3 and the Cruze sold, but it needs to be based in terms of total profit made on the vehicle, relative to size of company. Moreover, the new 3 hasn’t even been out a year yet, so the data would be statistically irrelevant anyway. And as I’ve said, there are so many other factors that impact sales.
The only way to find out if a 3-like car would be good for GM is for GM to build it (or just bring it here), and see if they will come. My opinion is that yes they will if GM does it right (to my list). I base that on all of the similar vehicles that I see on the road from the aggregate of foreign makers, not just Mazda. There’s the VW Golf, for example. Why would these companies EXPORT these cars here if it wasn’t profitable? And it isn’t like GM hasn’t already made a car that comes much closer. Witness what it sells in Europe.
As you can tell, I love a good debate. I wouldn’t normally waste time like this but I am physically laid up and can’t get out into my boat.
1. Honda Civic : 17,133
2. Toyota Corolla : 16,115
3. Chevy Cruze : 13,238
4. Volkswagen Jetta : 12,891
5. Ford Focus : 11,735
6. Nissan Sentra : 7,871
7. Mazda3 : 6,873
1. Toyota Corolla : 21,009
2. Honda Civic : 20,545
3. Chevy Cruze : 16,675
4. Ford Focus : 14,281
5. Hyundai Elantra : 13,025
6. Volkswagen Jetta : 12,422
7. Mazda3 : 9,264
1. Honda Civic : 21,883
2. Toyota Corolla : 17,988
3. Chevy Cruze : 15,049
4. Ford Focus : 14, 400
5. Volkswagen Jetta : 10,962
6. Hyundai Elantra : 10,900
7. Mazda3 : 9200
Must I Go On? Ill only do March and May now
1. Ford Focus : 28,293
2. Toyota Corolla : 28,289
3. Honda Civic : 28,199
4. Chevy Cruze : 21, 607
5. Hyundai Elantra : 19,681
6. Mazda3 : 13,235
7. Volkswagen Jetta : 12,947
Honda Civic – 33,490
Toyota Corolla – 31,847
Ford Focus – 24,769
Chevrolet Cruze – 19,613
Hyundai Elantra – 18,877
VW Jetta – 12,962
Mazda3 – 8,474
Forte – 7,782
Nissan Sentra – 7,600
I think you get the point now, the reason the I posted the obvious and went through all this trouble because I dont like it when someone tries to damage my credibility, like this line , “even if you are looking at data”.
Ok so then you say the sales were damaged by the tsunami, well the Civic and Corolla are both number 1 or 2 in November and December so I dont know what your talking about.
Now your saying that the sales numbers of just a few months ago and even sales of three weeks ago of May are “obsolete” and “irrelevant” .
Really? Sounds like someone is in denial.
And yes, there are many factors that influence sales, but still, if a car is the best on the market, then it is still not going to be an average of 7TH place in sales, regardless of said factors.
The Japenese auto industry and European(mainly German) have a strong loyal following at home, they dominate their home markets, for whatever reason, the American auto industry is not the same. The VW Golf and other exported cars are profitable only because there profitable at home. I doubt the VW Golf would be profitable in the U.S if you take out European sales. The only region GM is a market leader or close to being a market leader is America and China. Since there is not really a market in China for the type of car we are talking about, we must focus on America.
“relative to size of company”
Exactly! Thats the thing you seem not to understand, the Mazda3 sales are fine for Mazda because it is structured to successfully exist as a company with a low bottom line and just a couple of models being built, GM, however, is structured as a volume company with a huge bottom line and a lineup that supports that bottom line, so thats why GM has to make sure that the car will sell enough before they build it, and if you look at sales data, then it seems to show that such a car will not sell enough.
And your solution of building and seeing if it sells is not a viable solution. Do you know the cost involved with developing and building a new car, and just discontinuing it in a few years if it doesnt sell. GM is in a significantly better financial situation than it was a few years ago, but there still not out of the woods, they cant be taking risks like that, especially when theres still holes in their lineup and more viable cars to be built first, like the Cruze hatch.
If the question is not whether GM should be building a car similar to the Mazda3 hatch and the Mini cooper, then what it is the question? Then why are you disparaging GM for not building such a car?
Ive posted my response that includes links, it is awaiting moderation from GMA.
Babersher, Im not trying to “damage your credibility,” but you do seem to be trying to muddle what started as a discussion of features and engineering — missing in GMs lineup — into a discussion of sales, with all its flaws. People choose in large part based on their history. Some because the dealer is close or it’s what their dad owned. Some, like the Civic, because their last Civic ran 200,000 miles, even though just about all reviewers agree that this year’s Civic has fallen behind.
You don’t seem to disagree that GM should produce a Cruze hatch, so I’m not sure what you are arguing here. (Against technology or smart little innovations? I’m just not sure.) That said, I’ve seen no firm evidence that such a variant will be available in the U.S. any time soon. No evidence. Just speculation. So is that your point? That GM should make a hatch, innovate, etc., but just not do it here in the U.S. until the short-term investors are happy?
Read the latest review from Edmunds on the Mazda 3. It does everything but say Best in Class in just about every way, save perhaps that awkward front facia grin, which is probably a cultural thing that would not appear on a GM vehicle. Look at the performance and efficiency numbers. Edmunds is consistent with other reviews that show it is Best in Class in terms of performance relative to efficiency, and they did not give up driving feel to get it done. Aside from all the features I’ve listed that would serve only to broaden market share, are you seriously saying that GM is better off with a car that does not measure up as well, or that it would cost too much for a big company like GM to produce but not a small company like Mazda?
You sound like a GM staffer from a marketing division, perhaps retired, which would explain the angle you want to take. I am an engineer, so my interest is in the quality of the driving experience, performance/efficiency, and, of course, flexibility/utility. Many are able to build a 40 MPG highway car without hybrid technology or turbochargers. No one has done it with Mazda’s performance numbers. No reason GM can’t do this for U.S. customers, or is there a reason?
I was arguing against the following lines:
” It’s about trying to get GM to meet my needs, meet the apparent needs of many others, and be successful over the long term without more bailouts. The other American companies are failing in much the same way.”
“why won’t GM make a car like this, much less offer the closest cars that it does make to this to Americans? I say they are afraid to, because a car this flexible and desirable would temporarily hurt the sales of other cars in the line up that are mediocre. The long-term effect though, of course, would be very positive and profitable.”
My thorough focus on sales numbers were to show the following reasons
1. That your needs are not the needs of everyone
2. American companies are doing something right and are not failing(completely)
3. GM wont make a car like this because they dont have the time or resources to do so at a time when there are bigger holes in their lineup
4. Again I brought up sales numbers to show that a car like the Mazda3 are not as flexible and desirable as you seem to believe
5. The sales numbers show that the profitability of such a car is far from certain.
You seem to be unsure of what I am trying to say even though Ive said it many times. I am just trying to say that GM should not build a car like a Mazda3 and Mini Cooper till they have built a car like the Cruze hatch, which has much more market appeal, than a car like the Mini Cooper. And you bashed GM quite a bit in previous posts, my point was also to defend GM, that they are a company in limbo, just three years from a bankruptcy, and we cannot expect them to build cars in segments whose profitability is not ironclad, and that we should be patient before we except them to build cars in “niche” segment.
That said, I completely agree with you on “technology or smart little innovations” and “GM should make a hatch, innovate, etc” but do those things not with a car with limited appeal like a Mini Cooper but rather with a car like the Cruze Hatch.
Well then let me close this by making a deal with you and GM. I will buy the Cruze hatch, even if it does not quite perform to the level of the 3, if GM does the following, which would cost next to nothing:
1) Like several European and Japanese cars, put some studs beneath the rain gutter strip so that a third party like Yakima or Thule can do a decent rack that looks good, and work with these companies far enough in advance that we don’t need to wait for a mid-cycle refresh. If GM did this for its sedans I might even be persuaded to buy one. But I don’t think they will. GM wants a customer like me to buy a big SUV or crossover, but instead I’ll just go with the 3.
2) Announce that you are giving us the hatch this year, else buyers like me will be forced to look elsewhere. We can’t wait forever.
#1 is my need. Everything else is just gravy that I think GM should be doing anyway. If they fixed the armrest in the Sonic, gave it rear discs, and put rails on the roof I would buy that as well without a second thought. If they fixed the armrest in the Encore that would be on the list as well. (Still think I’m stuck on the MINI?) I did notice on one of GM’s sites though that the rear seats in the Encore appeared to fold forward, which might give it the same leg room problem for the driver that the Focus has.
None of these are big ticket cost items that are impossible for GM in its current financial situation. We’re just talking about being smart. These could be options that I would gladly pay for in order to buy American. Call it GM bashing if you want. I call it a lobbying effort.
Nothing you said is unreasonable so…
Ok, Deal 🙂