Lately, there’s been quite the raging discussion on our GM Forum about Pontiac, with some members being all for the return of the brand while others, well, not so much. So let’s put it to a vote, shall we?
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I liked this poll. I think they should bring Pontiac and Oldsmobile back. They would be sub brands. Pontiac and Oldsmobile would return once the US government has divested itself of GM. They would return once the other brands are fixed( Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Opel and Holden). They would be regional brands. My reason for their return are many.
1. Chevrolet has too many cars in the showroom covering too many segments. You can put all the features you want on a Chevrolet. It is still a Chevrolet.
2. Buick needs to be fixed as to what it will be. if it is going to be a luxury import fighter, then should be the focus.
These two sub brands would be sold in Buick GMC and Cadillac showrooms.
When Pontiac returns, it will be three to four cars:
Bonneville, Grand Prix, and Firebird and or GTO. They would all be rear drive using an existing GM platform. The styling would be unique to Pontiac. They would be affordable rear drive performance cars for the masses.
Oldsmobile would be three to four cars.:
Ninety Eight, Toronado and Cutlass and possibly Custom Cruiser.
Oldsmobiles niche would be what Cadillac and Buick once were with American style luxury cars with a value on luxury and emphasis on style. The Oldsmobiles except for Cutlass would share interiors as they did the the early to mid 1970’s. The exteriors would be different They could be front or rear wheel drive. The emphasis would be on room, comfort, technology and style. There are no big Buicks anymore. Cadillac does not build cars in this segment anymore. XTS does not count. Oldsmobile would also be the only GM brand with six passenger cars as well.
The reason why I did not say bring back the Eighty Eight too was because of the Chevrolet Impala.
the other reason why I did this too was because Buick and Opel are slowly becoming one globally.
Something to ponder on.
Your ideas aren’t going to work.
There is no such thing as “affordable rear drive performance cars for the masses” anymore. Factors beyond GM’s control have rendered such cars as meaningless and too costly for R&D. Furthermore, gas prices have driven a nail into such large cars for good, PROVIDED they command a premium a’la V-series or AMG series.
“Ninety Eight, Toronado and Cutlass and possibly Custom Cruiser.
Oldsmobiles niche would be what Cadillac and Buick once were”
You mean bring back Olds only to make massive body-on frame, leafsprung, landu-roofed, poorly built, gas-guzzling cars that nobody wants anymore?
Why would you want to bankrupt GM like that?
“There are no big Buicks anymore.”
Because the market demand for full size cars has all but been crushed into insignificance.
“Cadillac does not build cars in this segment anymore. XTS does not count”
It does count, as the XTS is only in that segment to mop up whatever handful of consumers who want a full size car. The XTS is being shopped about for fleet sales.
“Oldsmobile would also be the only GM brand with six passenger cars as well.”
I got bad news about the demand for bench seating, chief. It hasn’t been popular since the Regan adminstraion.
I hope all your ideas for GM don’t involve building clones of undesireable land barges from the mid-70’s to the mid-90’s….because those cars are so very far removed from actual consumer demands at present. You might as well pitch your “new” model range to include a free VCR.
They may be cars that you may want, but they aren’t cars that the world wants.
Thank you for misunderstanding everything I said and taking it out of context and your comments. I do not share your views or opinion. You are entitled to your comments and views. I have no desire to debate with you or justify what I meant. You already came to conclusions and opinions that do not line up with what I was saying or implying. You have a nice day.
Oh, so you really ment ‘hybrids all around for everyone’.
No problem, chief.
Have a lovely day.
Fuck you bitch. You wanna be a hater you should make your own god damn car. Oldsmobile and Pontiac had some of the best cars ever made, maybe not the greatest on gas but still great cars. I’ve had an 88 for thirteen years and no matter what you do to it it just keeps on going. But if you just wanna be a total asshole and tear down other peoples idea’s you should probably just keep your mouth shut.
@Landis: First, thank you for advocating Pontiac’s return. Secondly, I tip my hat to you for offering ideas as to the kinds of vehicles that a revived Pontiac might offer. As for me, I’d be content with ANY vehicles Pontiac might offer. On other threads, Pontiac detractors have attacked me for not offering some kind of “plan” or “proposal” regarding how Pontiac might return. As if I could come-up with a better plan than GM itself could.
Ummm, actually most of us could propose better ideas than GM can. GM provides good ideas, but usually waters them down. And they never listen to what the consumers want.
Well, I would think–or at least, I would hope–that GM could come-up with a better plan for Pontiac’s revival than I could. I’m not an auto-industry insider or specialist. I’m just a Pontiac loyalist who wants the brand to return.
Also, you just might be right that GM never listens to what the consumers want. But that would be foolish on its part; it would be foolish on the part of any business. A lot of consumers want Pontiac back. Perhaps GM had better START listening to what consumers want.
Yes as halo brand NOT as a chevy clone
NO ABSOLUTELY NOt
Look GM just got back from bankruptcy, it doesn’t have that kind of money to ressurect the brand. Second, Pontiac’s job is now in Cadillac’s hands. Dna Akerson said it himself, and he wants Cadillac to be America’s BMW. Third, I would in now way resurect another brand at GM, because I still think there’s too many. I really only wanted CHevy and Cadillac to exist, just like Toyota/Lexus and Volxwagen/Audi. This way the money could be spent directly towards them. But you know I am kind of okay Buick is around, especially because of its success in China, which is good for GM. GMC, on the otherhand, I wish was axed. It’s useless. A higher level Chevy pickup truck. It’s a waste of money for GM. I think what’s best is add the Acadia to the Chevy lineup and axe GMC from GM.
Well, the Acadia already exists as a Chevy Traverse — with Chevy styling cues throughout.
And let’s not forget that VW has Audi, SEAT, and Skoda. But the last two don’t really matter, as they have low volumes and don’t contribute much to the bottom line.
Buick should be around because it should be a soft luxury brand, ala Lexus. Caddy is performance luxury, ala BMW. Chevy is mainstream. These three segments/markets account for the most volume in the industry.
Heck, a GMC is no more luxurious than a Chevy — whether we’re talking trucks or crossovers…
Very well said Timothy. This is what I meant in one of my previous responses with the whole “Kia and Hyundai” statement. Don’t forget though, Toyota has always wanted to be like BMW, hence their Scion brand (Them trying to have a MINI style brand), so that does make three brands for Toyota.
But I do agree, GMC needs to be axed!!
OH YAH, DEFINETATLEY! BRNG BAK DA PARRIEZIEANNE FULLSIZE COUPE WIT FULL SIZE POWA!
*nods excitedly*
Tim yes the regal is a great car. I just cant warm up to the grille! I sold Buicks for a while. It handle like a car should handle. That is one of the better cars from GM. A true GT!
Continue with the programs they currently have,pay-off there loans to the Federal Gov.Strive for the highest Quality in the auto industry,develope there powertrains programs to exceed CAFE,EPA fuel mileage standards for the future.They have many hit products right now.They even might downsize a tad more in Europe.
Pontiac was an American Brand it needs to be revived. Chevrolet is a little plain
And Buick a little stuffy. Pontiac sales are going to Kia and VW.
Solotworacer: Yes, the grill on my GS is a little blah. On one hand unwanted to buy this aftermarket grill that has the Buick logo on it, but replaces the waterfall slats with a mesh pattern. On the other hand, I would like to keepnit stock just for the sake of it being the first year car and we don’t know what the future of the GS is.
I think that Buick should have been killed back when Olds was discontinued. Buick is popular in China, not here. Buick could have continued there and Olds take its place since it was around longer. Pontiac should never have been killed in the first place. It’s like Buick slapped Pontiac in the face like it did to Olds. Pontiac needed an overhaul to be successful and if Buick had been kicked to the curb it could have been possible and finally Saturn. I feel it was robbed in so many ways. I liked the idea of having Saturn badged Opels. It was a really cool idea. It’s really a shame. It should be Chevy, GMC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn. Chevy= all-around, GMC= trucks, crossovers and suvs, Pontiac=sport/performance, Olds= luxury-sport, Saturn=import/new-edge
I have to agree with you, Buick is an old brand, personally I advocate a replacement of Buick with Opel or Vauxhall.
If Buick and Opel merge their core lineups like I think GM is planning to do by moving Opel upmarket, then it will be like the same thing.
Absolutely. I’m a fan of the idea, but don’t think it will happen… GM seems to be as risk-averse as possible nowadays.
Chad, what you said doesn’t make much sense. Buicks are selling well here in the states. Saying Buick slapped Pontiac and Olds in the face is exaggerated. What killed Olds was bad management and what killed Pontiac was the GM restructure plain and simple. And Saturn really? You would rather have a bland looking car over a car manufacturer rich in American automobile history. They started rebadging Opels and selling Chevrolet wannabe looking sports cars as Saturn’s to try and fix the brand image and look where it got them…….one straight ticket to automotive heaven. At the very least back in the day, if GM had gotten rid of “badge engineering” they wouldn’t have gotten in the mess they’re in now. So, in the end, do not blame Buick for Pontiacs demise. Blame the individuals who have us the Montana and Aztec!! Even the mighty G8 couldn’t save Pontiac.
Saturn was one of the reasons for Old GM’s failure. It took away vehicles and sales that should/would have been Chevys… and prevented Chevy from being a global brand (like it is now, thanks to the demise of Saturn).
But rebadging Opels as Buicks puts them in an even bigger problem than rebadged them as Saturns. At least Saturn and Opel are mainstream brands, while Buick is trying to be “luxury” something or other… No real luxury DNA, no success.
I don’t know Alex. When GM eliminated Saturn they also eliminated the Saturn body styles (wagons, small CUVs) and the Saturn buying experience. I’m having trouble seeing how that was a good thing.
And Alex, I have to disagree with you about Buick as well. Buick is filling a gap in the entire industry, and I see this as part of their success. If they compete directly with Lexus they will lose. I’m a prime example of lots of customers that don’t want all of a Lexus or its price, but do want the comfort, quiet, and smooth ride of a Buick. You can’t get that with LTZ Chevy’s. Buicks are a bit heavier all-around, in a good way, as I see it. I remember opening the doors of a Cruze and Verano side-by-side. The Cruze was thin and just did not have quite the solid latching and “thump” of the Verano. The Cruze was more like the other mainstream cars, which is fine. The Verano was a slight step up, but in ways that make it just right. Add e-Assist and these cars are just perfect in my book for the buyer who wants just a bit more comfort and quality, but not pure high end luxury, with its high price. Now if Buick would just fix a certain thing and bring in some hatch variants … for the U.S. market!
From everything I’ve seen so far, the gap you’re referring to is not in need of being filled on a mass scale. That’s to say that there are other (luxury) segments that can deliver the same sales volume but that are a lot more lucrative, due to higher prices.
So while being an “in between” offering may make sense to you in particular, the market is voting with its dollars for high-end luxury goods more often than it does the “tweener” goods.
The body styles eliminated with Saturn should have been Chevys all along. Outside of the Vue and Sky, the rest of the lineup already duplicated Chevy, causing GM to compete with itself and spread marketing, dev, and design costs, rather than focusing on getting its only global brand the product it needs.
Today, I see no reason to re-introduce vehicles like the Sky and Vue as Chevys, with proper updates — of course.
buick shouldnt be a luxury brand just a comfort brand lose some sportiness of the chevy (because chevs are lighter) and add refinement but not price
in my opinion the gs should of been a chev. i see buicks buyers as mature people who dont want/need more power but want/need more refinement like quietness and softer riding susspension. chevy should aim more at younger buyers who want some fun zippieness in thier car aswell as there being less sound insulation (good in city not as good on highway but sacrifices need to be made) and be able to handle a firmer suspension
I don’t think you’ve driven a Regal GS. It’s not slow by any means. And I came from a fully modified street tuned Cooper S, so performance is important to me. You’d be surprised what 295 lb ft of twist will do to a car!!
i know its not slow it’s sporty and fun thats my point it doesn’t belong with buick it should have been a chevy
You forget about the Grand National and T-Type G-bodies of the 80’s. The Regal GS 4 cylinder turbo engine puts out nearly the same power as a V6 turbo from back when hair band ruled the airwaves.
Buick has just started to pick up now that Saturn and Pontiac are gone. I hate Buick and I think every model it had produced in the past 10 years have been bland. You forget that Buick was in the red at the time that Oldsmobile was in trouble. Oldsmobile made a small profit towards the end while Buick was still sinking. I would have given Oldsmobile a chance and withdrew Buick. I don’t think that you appriciate what Saturn started to offer when the new Vue, Aura, Astra and Outlook were released. All had solid styling and was a major improvement over its previous design language. Every brand has its shortfalls. I liked the Aztek for its quirkiness and the Montana looked ok in its first generation. I agree badge engineering hurts a brand but many fans I would like to believe are still steaming over Pontiac demise. I own a 2003 Grand Prix SE and it is one of the best cars I have owned; great styling, power and fuel economy for a V6. If you like Buick Tim, that’s fine but I don’t.
Pontiac turned a complete 180 degrees with the G8 and Solstice. Unfortunately, they got the axe and Buick stayed. Maybe Pontiac should have sold cars in China. Truth is, back in the ’60s and ’70s, Pontiac sold good cars. Then all of a sudden we had the Aztec and the Montana!! Really? Bad management right there. Mini vans and ugly sport ute wannabes is not Pontiac!!! If Pontiac had stayed, it should have been GMC to go. GM is not going to get rid of a brand that is bringing in profits, which is what Buick was doing in China. And I’ve found that most people hating on Buick today are mad because they are becoming successful again. The cars are elegant. I had the gate guards today asking me about my GS. They were really into it.
@ Tim: Thank you for being reasonably sympathetic towards Pontiac. However, regarding Buick’s profitability in China, I’m assuming that the operational word in your sentence is, “was.” It’s my understanding that almost all of GM’s profit last year came from the North American market, not the Chinese market. Interestingly, that was PONTIAC’S market; Pontiac was strong in the US AND Canada. When GM murdered Pontiac, GM made the excuse that Buick wasn’t murdered instead, because it sold well in China. So much for THAT.
Type your message here…Chad: You BET I’m still steaming over Pontiac’s demise. And I dislike Buick because it survived AT PONTIAC’S EXPENSE.
Again, Pontiac is gone due to the idiots who couldn’t properly run GM, NOT because of Buick.
Well, that’s true. Pontiac really SHOULD have been stronger than it was in ’09, what with the legacy and popularity the brand had enjoyed for so long. Still, it’s frustrating that when push came to shove, Buick–a brand that was so weak in the US compared to Pontiac–survived in Pontiac’s place because of Buick’s sales in CHINA. Pontiac was outselling Buick TWO-TO-ONE here.
I’m by no means a Buick fanboy, but I am supporting one of the last American car brands from GM with some heritage. Yes, I’d love to see Pontiac back, but not if we are going to have minivans and pseudo- SUVs. They were on the right path with the G8 and Solstice, but just like a GM move, they finally get it right and then snatch it out of existence. That’s what happened to the Fiero. I use that as an example. But as of right now, I really don’t know where GM is headed. I will be honest, I think they would be much more successful with only 2 or 3 brands.
Yeah, plus at that time Buicks cars really sucked I mean seriously, the Lucerne? I was sad to see such a cool car like the Solstice go.
Hey, the Lucerne was a pretty good car (at least for my neighbors)… and a good seller as well.
Sure, it was mechanically ancient, but it got the job done… the job being a soft, quiet, luxurious ride.
Yeah, I just remember Car & Driver ‘s take in one of their annual car buyers guide, “Such cars nearly killed Buick.” At least it had a V8…..
@alex: Hi. Nice to see you on this thread, too. My question is: Didn’t Buick discontinue the Lucerne as of this year?
@Moanalua Yes, the Lucerne is done.
Yes. I, too, thought that the Solstice was gorgeous. I guess that’s why it was considered a halo car.
Well I can’t say I’m much of a Buick fan myself, personally I think that selling Opel in N.A. would be a much better idea, but with how much heritage Buick holds in the United States and even Canada, I don’t see that happening, I could see it happening in Canada, but the U.S. not so much. Having said that, Opel being sold more so globally then Buick where Buick is selling well in China and the U.S. but Opel has a better chance of being a global luxury brand then Buick cause their global footprint-automotively speaking-is substantially larger as it is sold in more countries then Buick, in this case a fair compromise would be to make Buick nothing more then badge engineered Opel more then they already are with the Verano and the Regal, cause I would love to see a German designed Lacrosse and a full sized Opel flagship. Also what would people think if Buick became a RWD company to compete with the likes of Lexus or Infiniti more so, cause Caddy is trying to compete on the level of the Germans with Audi or BMW or Merc, and by the looks of it isn’t doing all that bad they still have some work to do but there getting there, and Buick/Opel could easily compete with Infiniti and Lexus
Buicks sold better in China. Thats why GM kept Buick. They should have kept Pontiac here and produced Buicks in China. The best of both worlds???
EXACTLY. That’s the very same comment I made on the poll-results thread. I would like to think that GM might have been able to keep Pontiac if Buicks were made available in China only, as that would have lessened intra-corporate competition. I know that Pontiac and Buick weren’t pursuing exactly the same customers, but there surely was SOME overlap. I.e., I’m certain that Pontiac’s sales would have been higher, if Buicks were sold in China only.
Really?
You think Buick and Pontiac sales overlap?
Sorry if this is rude, but are you OK?
@Babersher: Yes, it IS rude. You mean to tell me that if Buick disappeared completely in the US, Pontiac would get ZERO of its customers? ZERO?
I’m certain they would get at least one. Call me crazy, but the cars that head my list are the Buick Encore and the Mazda 3. And if the Vibe were to show up with an appropriate update, it would also be on my list. (Can you guess what these cars have in common?)
Yes, there are people that have been driving efficient, practical cars for most of their lives. And now, as work declines and retirement becomes more in focus, adding a bit of luxury in a small, efficient Buick makes sense, at least to me. If Buick went away then so would the Encore, but I’d welcome a well-done Vibe, just as I’d welcome a Saturn Astra, provided they gave it a good center armrest. (Seems there’s always that one, critical oversight that kills an otherwise good idea…..must be that it wasn’t a sedan.)
Neither you or I can say with certainty the exact number of how many people cross shopped Pontiac and Buick. But while it may not be ZERO, it will definately be a number less than four digits. And that number is so insignificant that it couldnt possibly have brought Pontiac down.
Sorry for being rude but I cant fathom how someone could possibly think that someone would cross shop a lucerne and a g6. And anyways I think pontiac had better products than Buick in 2008 and 2009.
Look I miss Pontiac, it was a great tragedy that it had to die because of GMs incompetence. Pontiac had alot of problems and trust me , Buick was not on the top ten or even the top 50, or even the top 100.
But now we, Pontiac lovers, have to accept that theres no going back, the few segments pontiac and saturn occupied that chevy did not have already been covered by chevy.
Pontiac is dead, get over it.
@Babersher: I’m glad that you’re a Pontiac lover, and yes, Pontiac is obviously dead. However, I am not “getting over it.” And of course, as I said in my post, Buick and Pontiac were very different brands aimed at different buyers. All I suggested is that there would be SOME overlap; I didn’t say there’d be a lot. ANY increase in Pontiac sales obviously wouldn’t have hurt. And, you weren’t reallly being THAT rude; if anything, perhaps MY response was a little rude, too. There remains a lot of demand for Pontiac; look at how many websites you find when you Google “Bring Back Pontiac.” Look at the results of the poll on THIS thread. I think there CAN and SHOULD INDEED be a “going back.” For many Pontiac loyalists, Chevy simply won’t do. I’d like to take this opportunity to ask all Pontiac loyalists who might be reading: DON’T GIVE UP ON PONTIAC JUST YET.
@Moanalua
Look, Pontiac could come back but the same thing will happen that just happened to it in 2009.
GM is not capable of running Pontiac as it should be.
Im not against pontiac ever coming back. But based on current trends and the millenial generation, no one really cares about budget performance anymore.
Pontiac’s revival should always be considered by GM but now know, maybe in 20 years. Maybe at a time when GMs all other brands are profitable and every segment within those brands are filled.
My understanding is that Buick sales are DOWN 12%.
One major problem with Buick, and GM’s other vehicles as well, is FWD!!! Personally, I do a lot of mountain driving, corner carving for leisure, and I prefer FWD over RWD in this application. However, to compete on this front, GM needs some serious RWD contenders. You accelerate in a car, and what happens? The front end lifts. This is fine for a RWD car. FWD, not so much as you lose so much traction and pulling power, 0-60 times suffer. And we all know a cars performance is based totally off 0-60 times by most major automotive rags. Buick’s plan for the most part is not working. They are putting out good products, just not getting the individual’s they want. What Buick needs is a high HP, RWD car. I love this discussion!!!
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
But crank up the “excitement” at Chevrolet with REAL performance packages on Cruze & Malibu. etc. If you want to take a nod to Pontiac then name the packages/sub models appropriately.
Make the sky the new reatta and sell the captiva to every one and sell china’s park avenue here ( its really a G8 )
i had an idea where they sell a chevy pontiac, and a buick oldsmobile, the pontiac would be pretty much a new fiero or solstice, and the olds would be a awesome wagon with a captains chair an alot of luxury, just my idea
NO. It would only take money away from the development programs of their other brands.
There’s a huge demand for full-size rear wheel drive cars that’s being filled by the Silverado Tahoe and suburban and their clones.
The difference being is that Silverado and Tahoe’s aren’t even cars to begin with.
In the GMT-900’s defense, they are infinately better than a Park Avenue. But isn’t that was the Escalade is already doing in 3 different body styles?
The Park Av, and similar land barges, never had a chance. Besides, the S-class pretty much runs the full size car segment nowadays.
Well if Cadillac was to use the Zeta or Zeta II LWB or SWB they could easily compete with the S class, the BMW 7 series and the Audi A8 both on a performance level and a luxury level. We all know what the Zeta can do in terms of handling with the Camaro and it can use the 6.2 from the Corvette so it can compete on power with the S class, and keep a versatile platform in the Generals fold.
They’d easily have a car… but not an effective competitor in the full sized luxury space. Hence, the Omega:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/11/spied-the-first-shots-of-a-cadillac-omega-mule/
Pontiac was the biggest seller for GM. Buick is making cars that I like but most ex-Pontiac owners would not buy them. Pontiac should be the hot rod division. Make all the small cars with 250hp or more turbo engines. Or maybe an American based V6 twin turbo G8. Opel would seem like a more likely idea. This from a PA Chevrolet dealership parts employee.
Pontiac was the third “biggest” seller for GM, behind Chevy and GMC, and sometimes behind Saturn.
But sales volume is irrelevant — and so is the fact that Buick sold less than Pontiac. Buicks are much more profitable since they’re luxury vehicles.
Add to that the fact that most Pontiac owners bought rebadged Chevys (Torrent, G3, G5, G6, SV6) and that the Buick customer is completely different, and my question is what’s the point?
Nice!!!
@alex: I think the point is that for MANY Pontlac loyalists, Chevy simply isn’t going to do, regardless of how similar Chevys were to Pontiacs. You wouldn’t tell someone to dump his girlfriend, and accept her twin sister as a substitute. For Pontiac loyalists like me, it’s simply GOT to be a PONTIAC. And sales volume IS relevant in that it’s an indication of MARKET DEMAND.
I’m not looking for a rehash of the discussion that’s taking/took place in the forum, but market demand doesn’t mean squat unless that market can be served profitably. In other words, profitability is the bottom line, not sales volume or market demand.
GM can sell 10,000 Buicks a month that contribute $500,000 to net profit… or GM can sell 30,000 Pontiacs in the same time period, which contribute $150,000 to net profit.
One is more profitable, while the other is not only less profitable, but also more manufacturing, support, and resource-intensive; not to mention reducing focus on what really matters.
In other words, if sales volume is a legitimate measure of market demand, then how much demand exists for a state-of-the-art car that sells for $5 (when said car costs $10,000 to build)?
Then, add in the fact that most Pontiacs over the last 10 years left the lot some serious “on the hood” cash/incentives, and the business case for a niche, low-volume and low-margin product diminishes very quickly.
PS: the Pontiac loyalists do exist, no denying that. But I wonder how many of those loyalists would side with you in choosing not to purchase a leading, quality Chevrolet out of principle.
Also, here’s something else I’ve been pondering: the “Pontiac fire” will quell sooner rather than later… and loyalists (and even ex-owners) will move on.
But I would rather see better, safer, more fun vehicles from Chevy (or any other make, for that matter) than demand the return of a brand for “brand” sake. Does a brand progress humanity… or do the practices and fields of development, engineering, design, etc.?
Ultimately, I’d rather have a superior car… than to live in the past and demand a car with a specific badge. Just because.
According to High Performance Pontiac magazine circa 2009, ex-Pontiac owners already gave up on GM. All said they will never drive a GM again. Never say never.
All of them?
Every single Pontiac owner in 2009?
That must have been a mighty big poll.
@alex: As a Pontiac loyalist, I would prefer that the fire quell later rather than sooner. And if indeed GM DOESN’T revive Pontiac, I will take my business to a non-GM automaker. The Pontiac brand is obviously important to we Pontiac loyalists, REGARDLESS of whether that “progresses humanity” or not. We Pontiac loyalists ARE demanding a car with a specific badge.
I have a suggestion, how about giving us the option to “brand” our better, safer, more fun Chevy as a Pontiac. It could be an add on kit. I don’t know, it could work! =)
I wonder what kind of demand that would have. I personally WOULD buy a new Camaro if I could “brand” it as a Firebird. In fact, if you made that happen tomorrow, I might just have to buy one!
@VetteGyrl: Thank you for being open to purchasing a Pontiac, despite being a Chevy person (VETTE-Gyrl). That’s an interesting suggestion you made, but as a Pontiac loyalist, I’d prefer that Pontiac be more than just an add-on kit. I wouldn’t mind if–at first–Pontiac returned as some kind of “sub-brand” of Chevy, sold at Chevy dealers, as long as the Pontiacs carried the Pontiac insignia. But I would like to see Pontiac eventually evolve into a separate brand once again.
@alex: It DOES mean SQUAT to PONTIAC LOYALISTS. And isn’t your example a little more severe than was the case for Pontiac? How many Pontiac loyalists would side with me? How about how many ALREADY DID? Roughly 45@ of Pontiac’s former customers, for starters.
Oops. Typo. That’s 45%.
@jeffrey: Very good comment. I STILL own a Pontiac, and I couldn’t imagine purchasing a new Buick, as Buick survived AT PONTIAC’S EXPENSE. And indeed, Pontiac was GM’s performance/excitement division for decades, and I’d be glad to see it return that way. Thank you for offering specific ideas as to the kind of vehicles that a revived Pontiac might offer. On another thread, Pontiac detractors attacked me for not offering ideas as to specific models.
90 responses on the comments is this record?
I think we had another post or two that got over 150. But that was in 2011 🙂
Actually I think the record was made by article that was published a long time ago. Remember the one about Holden in which everyone was hating on Alex.
I think #2 is the one about the 2014 corvette, in which it crossed 100.
But this one is definitely near the top of the list.
I believe you’re correct! Boy that Holden piece was a doozie. Definitely wasn’t expecting the mass outcry from the Aussies… ironically, I don’t think most of them knew what a Cruze, Barina Spark, Captiva, or Malibu are.
Not a record, but if we regurgitate the information from the 560 plus posts in the Pontiac forum discussion, it could be. It looks like someone is try to do that. 😉
Aww man, I’ll be able to use JJ’s laugh again!
@Brian_E: If that someone is provoked, it’s understandable that he would.
lol do it graw do it
We must be patient and wait for just the right moment.
But I do have an itchy trigger finger.
ohhh so you’re being all sniper 😀
Maybe a tf2 sniper, but I don’t have a urinary tract problem.
Yet.